Just a few tips, you can get two heat fire bricks rated above 2400°F drill a 2" hole between both bricks and a side hole for butane torch. This gets a much more unifirm heat treat on blade and handle. You want to heat treat handle as well so it doesn't have a weak point. When you temper the blade after the quench, your oven stage you want to heat at 300-350°F for two cycles. 300°F = 64-65 hardness, and 350°F = 61-62 hardness 400°F goes into the 50's which is not as hard as you want for holding edge sharp with heavy use. My last tip is to not go left and right in the canola oil you actually want to go up and down, figure 8's and left abd tight motions can cause warping of blade. Also you should use Parks 50 instead of the vegetable oil because it will give you a much better consistency of hardness.
Another one, per Dr. Larrin Thomas, is to heat to a fair bit above nonmagnetic, and air cool, to normalize it. This helps dissolve the carbon from the coarse as-supplied condition. 1084 is the fastest steel for this to happen since it has no extra alloying, which is why it's the best beginner forge steel. After that, heat to JUST nonmagnetic, and then quench. This regrows the crystal structure finer for better toughness, but you get the dissolved carbon from the normalize you did before so it fully hardnens properly. The problem with "to magnetic and a bit hotter" is that steel turns nonmagnetic when it converts to austenite, but the heat that this happens at varies on how fast you heated it, so if you heat it fast and even just hold it there, you're already overheating the steel and getting grain growth, nevermind going hotter. With a heat treat fornace, it's very slow so you can hold it lower for longer and not get grain growth at that temperature. Also, best to use water/brine for 10 series steels to harden them, though 1084 doesn't need a quench as fast as 1095. If it's thinner than ⅛" inch it'll probably mostly harden in canola, but you never want to get lower hardness out of a quench, only the temper. Choose from 300-400f, but 375-400f is the most rounded and for steels like 5160, you lose all your toughness below that. 300f is fine for thin kitchen knives perhaps where toughness is barely needed. And yeah, do it twice is even better than once since the first temper can make new untempered martensite.. and if you really want, toss your blade in the freezer right after the quench, because a freezer if done right away will have half the effect of cryo. Simple lower carbon steels don't need it much at all, though, like 1084. 1084 is the easiest one out there aside from quench speed just due to how fast it diffuses, so even a heat to nonmagnetic will get you most of the carbon in solution for hardness. I don't want to nitpick but the extra toughness from the just magnetic and also crystalline helps a good bit.
Great job on the knives dave. I noticed that you heated the blades up to the start of where the blade begins and where the handle ends. Getting that red area deeper into the handle towards the spine in an arcing direction will increase the strength of the knife and keep it from cracking or breaking off the blade. The edge of where you heat treat the blade will be the brittle spot. A blade of that length will probably be fine with the good job you did after the heat treatment but when you make longer knives it could be something to consider. Thanks for the vid have a good one dave!
My blades are no bigger than yours ,I’ll try this with two torches , heat the spine , hold blade upside down and let the heat rise should get me to non mag temperature. Thanks for the tip .
haha I'll learn from you and turn ppl down. It's way too slow going with the tools I got, it takes me like 2 weeks and hours and hours, and more lol. Nope these knives are only for me until I get a belt grinder so I can somewhat speed it up. cheers bud
Great video thanks for the info I’m just gathering the tools and material to do the same kind of job. You mentioned cooling the knife with water after tempering it in the oven, did you do this straight away or did you allow the knife to cool slowly first?
Id said no, you would atleast need maybe 2 blow torches too. and even then it might not work. I could see it hard to get the whole blade up to temp without cooling other spots.
Unfortunately failed for me! This is my first heat treat. Anyway, i couldn't get my steel to become hot enough! Could it be my steel is too large? I'm also working outdoors
Yeah, the 1084 is a very forgiving carbon steel, a good steel for practicing how to make knives, But once you learn, 1095 will be the knife steel, So why not 1095 CroVan not too many makers using it in moderate priced knives.,,.
Looking at some charts, 1095 really isn't any better. 1084 looks to be better, and 80crv2 is basically 1084 crovan. 1084 is much tougher for an extremely paltry reduction in edge retention.
You’re not meant to completely submerse the thermometer. Just the sensor. Note the liquid trapped in the gauge. This will make your temperature reading very inaccurate.
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Just a few tips, you can get two heat fire bricks rated above 2400°F drill a 2" hole between both bricks and a side hole for butane torch. This gets a much more unifirm heat treat on blade and handle.
You want to heat treat handle as well so it doesn't have a weak point.
When you temper the blade after the quench, your oven stage you want to heat at 300-350°F for two cycles. 300°F = 64-65 hardness, and 350°F = 61-62 hardness
400°F goes into the 50's which is not as hard as you want for holding edge sharp with heavy use.
My last tip is to not go left and right in the canola oil you actually want to go up and down, figure 8's and left abd tight motions can cause warping of blade.
Also you should use Parks 50 instead of the vegetable oil because it will give you a much better consistency of hardness.
Yes i made one of those diy forges and have done better heat treats than this old vid. you are right on every point!
Another one, per Dr. Larrin Thomas, is to heat to a fair bit above nonmagnetic, and air cool, to normalize it. This helps dissolve the carbon from the coarse as-supplied condition. 1084 is the fastest steel for this to happen since it has no extra alloying, which is why it's the best beginner forge steel.
After that, heat to JUST nonmagnetic, and then quench. This regrows the crystal structure finer for better toughness, but you get the dissolved carbon from the normalize you did before so it fully hardnens properly.
The problem with "to magnetic and a bit hotter" is that steel turns nonmagnetic when it converts to austenite, but the heat that this happens at varies on how fast you heated it, so if you heat it fast and even just hold it there, you're already overheating the steel and getting grain growth, nevermind going hotter. With a heat treat fornace, it's very slow so you can hold it lower for longer and not get grain growth at that temperature.
Also, best to use water/brine for 10 series steels to harden them, though 1084 doesn't need a quench as fast as 1095. If it's thinner than ⅛" inch it'll probably mostly harden in canola, but you never want to get lower hardness out of a quench, only the temper. Choose from 300-400f, but 375-400f is the most rounded and for steels like 5160, you lose all your toughness below that. 300f is fine for thin kitchen knives perhaps where toughness is barely needed. And yeah, do it twice is even better than once since the first temper can make new untempered martensite.. and if you really want, toss your blade in the freezer right after the quench, because a freezer if done right away will have half the effect of cryo. Simple lower carbon steels don't need it much at all, though, like 1084.
1084 is the easiest one out there aside from quench speed just due to how fast it diffuses, so even a heat to nonmagnetic will get you most of the carbon in solution for hardness.
I don't want to nitpick but the extra toughness from the just magnetic and also crystalline helps a good bit.
Great job on the knives dave. I noticed that you heated the blades up to the start of where the blade begins and where the handle ends. Getting that red area deeper into the handle towards the spine in an arcing direction will increase the strength of the knife and keep it from cracking or breaking off the blade. The edge of where you heat treat the blade will be the brittle spot. A blade of that length will probably be fine with the good job you did after the heat treatment but when you make longer knives it could be something to consider. Thanks for the vid have a good one dave!
thanks for the tip really appreciate it!
Great job Dave. I picked up a few tips for my next knife project. Thanks for sharing
glad I could help mark
Great video, Dave. Thank you
My blades are no bigger than yours ,I’ll try this with two torches , heat the spine , hold blade upside down and let the heat rise should get me to non mag temperature. Thanks for the tip .
Can you use the same oil over, and over? Or, should it be replaced with fresh oil after “X” number of uses?
Nice! Good work bro, gettin it down! Get ready for people to start askin you for a knife if they aren't already😳
haha I'll learn from you and turn ppl down. It's way too slow going with the tools I got, it takes me like 2 weeks and hours and hours, and more lol. Nope these knives are only for me until I get a belt grinder so I can somewhat speed it up. cheers bud
Smart man!
Great video thanks for the info I’m just gathering the tools and material to do the same kind of job. You mentioned cooling the knife with water after tempering it in the oven, did you do this straight away or did you allow the knife to cool slowly first?
Also why do you heat oil to 130 if it was room temp would that not do as good of a job ? Sorry for all questions
Cold oil makes the risk bigger of crqcking thenblade
It it possible to forge a large knife with a Camp Stove?
Id said no, you would atleast need maybe 2 blow torches too. and even then it might not work. I could see it hard to get the whole blade up to temp without cooling other spots.
Used motor oil ok?, canola oil is a bit rich lvl for me
Canola oil costs like $3 per gallon wdym
Did a fine job on 'em Dave Keep us posted T F S ATB Terry God Bless
thanks!
Unfortunately failed for me! This is my first heat treat. Anyway, i couldn't get my steel to become hot enough! Could it be my steel is too large? I'm
also working outdoors
Probably, this knife is small so a blade that is 4-5in might be too hard without building more of an oven like environment
Any idea rockwell it was originally and what u ended up with not sure if u have rockwell files
Yeah, the 1084 is a very forgiving carbon steel, a good steel for practicing how to make knives, But once you learn, 1095 will be the knife steel, So why not 1095 CroVan not too many makers using it in moderate priced knives.,,.
paulie 4x ya I chose 1084 for that reason. I might try O1 tool steel next. we shall see 😀
I think you'll be just fine. Just remember, 5 nickels is better than two dimes.,,.
Looking at some charts, 1095 really isn't any better. 1084 looks to be better, and 80crv2 is basically 1084 crovan. 1084 is much tougher for an extremely paltry reduction in edge retention.
You’re not meant to completely submerse the thermometer. Just the sensor. Note the liquid trapped in the gauge. This will make your temperature reading very inaccurate.
Yup, I was a bigger noob back then. still a noob now