The 200 color comparison really hits the nail on the head. YGO's reliance on archetypes just precludes any limited format. The game is designed in such a way that power-creep is the only reason to buy a new set.
No? There's a lot of archetype that has synergy with each others, and some archetype card that are even better in different archetype entirely unlike mtg's color system are
Why not, in drafts only, have a rule that says whenever an archetype is mentioned on a card it counts as any archetype? For example a card says to search your deck for a red-eyes card, you may search your deck for a dark magician instead.
@@grimrapper5202 Not anymore. When was the last time an old archetype that was a few years old suddenly saw play cos it had good synergy with a new deck? Maybe 1 copy of a card from old sets will be in a new deck but that's it. Now these new archetypes just get stacked on top of each other with every new set. Or they take old archetypes and power creep every single old card. Look at Fiendsmith getting splashed into the top decks. Barely 10% of every new set is meta relevant but at least in Magic if that was the case it could still be drafted.
@@blueplayer6197 I think some formats try to do this, the "risk" is balance. It essentially turns the cube into Powered Cube equivalent and may be tricky to balance without careful cube construction
I don’t understand the there is no community argument. Card Market! you have the power to promote new formats! If you did a domain game once a month to a year.I believe it will see growth.
What you're ignoring is that ANYTIME alternative formats were proposed, either by the community or by Konami, they get shot down. Rush Duel? Is middling success and isn't coming outside of Japan. Not even Korea, China, and Thailand get it. Speed Duels? Was considered an okay at best, if not actively bad, reprint style set. The only thing that has taken off is Time Wizard/Retro formats. Highlander didn't take off because even a decade ago everyone realized the correct answer is Dragons. It was always Dragons. That answer never changed. And I believe that's the only time I ever heard of an alternative format for Yu-Gi-Oh having ANY mainstream coverage. Unless you wanna count the ARG ban list shit show. Or its successor.
@@aaronwishard7093 That is a competitive mind set. At the end of the day Yu-Gi-Oh is a game. There are many different types of people that play Yu-Gi-Oh for different reasons. So if I want to play a pet deck, Konami doesn’t have to support it, because if I have format that supports my pet deck and a majority of players understand and also play the format, then Konami can’t stop us. Domain to me, looks like it supports many pet decks. It’s about finding a balance between Playground yu gi oh and a competitive deck list. Many mtg commander player don’t even compete or even go for the optimal builds. And if I participate in a game that where there is no torment, than Konami not support it won’t effect Domain. Wotc didn’t support commander right out the gate, it took time and a community movement that kept growing. Famously, wotc doesn’t even control the commander ban list. I stoped playing yu gi oh in 2011 ( frog monarch player! Treeborn frog ftw ) and switch to merfolk in mtg. These konami arguments to me, sound like yu gi oh player are a little browbeaten. I understand konami is a nightmare to deal with but you don’t need Konami to play the game. ( at this point, yes there is a essential relation to konami printing the cards )
@@aaronwishard7093 I think overall you're right about the existing formats, but calling Rush Duel middling doesn't really settle with me. JP is a very competitive market when it comes to TCGs and it's in the top ten most sold card games there. For being a secondary card game to the second most successful TCG they have, it's pretty good. Here in the west, I don't see alt TCGs like that happening though, because TCG Konami reaps in too much cash with the standard TCG. After speed duels flopped, they will never try something like it again I think.
@@Lobohobo The reason I called Rush Duels middling is because of exactly what you said. Just because it's big in Japan doesn't mean it'll do anything outside of Japan. It's why I cited even the rest of the OCG market isn't getting it. The TCG isn't getting it at all. Being the 10th most popular thing in Japan doesn't mean anything when nobody in the rest of the world is saying it's very meh
You gotta play domain. People won't play a format if they don't know about it. This is your chance to shine. Also domain gameplay is pretty entertaining to watch.
I agree, I was baffled when one of them said we wont put a video on it cause its not famous but it's fun,THEN DO A VIDEO ABOUT IT AND MAKE IT MORE FAMOUS, help out a bit.
"So many formats, you make new ones just to play for a few days" We have formats dedicated to one quirky card like Dandan that try to capture the essence of Blue Magic. We have Judge's Tower to capture the depth of weirdness of interactions in Magic where you set rules forcing how you must act on a turn and you pretty much lose only by illegal action, or not taking an action as soon as it was legal, or being wrong about thinking someone else was wrong. The Tower then turns over the most convoluted, bizarre and difficult to correctly resolve effects possible. Formats are great
@@Reluxthelegendthis, as a YGO player I gave MTG a fair try. Fcking got deep on formats strats bla bla bla, standar mtg has the same problem as current ygo and commander is close to if not just as expensive as ygo legacy formas, the difference is YGO players are acustomed to spend WAY less on cards than MTG players, the difference baffled me honestly, it's a really interesting phenomenon
@@Arcangel6791 wait no Yu gi oh can't be more expensive then commander commander decks can cost like more then $10000. I would be surprised if yu gi oh would have any tournaments if good decks are around that cost
@@akorthouwer Uhm... what? Unless you want to play cEDH unity bland, where every deck play the same 80 cards, then EDH is cheaper then many standard decks. (Well, ok, a single Sheoldred brings you on the cost of a full deck, so...)
Id like to see you guys play a multiplayer domain game. Seeing bigger channels try it out would really push it out to larger audience. Who knows maybe we could get a popular alternative format other than time wizard formats.
A close parallel for archetypal limitations in Yugioh would be tribal support in Magic. While it's technically closer in concept to types in Yugioh, archetypes are basically one more layer of type but instead of being a descriptor, it becomes part of the name
this is lame it breaks established archetypes snd kills fun decks that have a ton of cool tech while xenophobic meta decks keep 90% of their cards (yubel) I built a Vaalmonica ABC Therion Fiendsmith pile with lv7 syncrho enablers for AFD I summon Light Earth Dark Water monsters and use Machines, Dragons, Fairies, Spellvasters, Fiends in my main deck as part of my "normal" main deck lines.
I got so used to how many formats there are in magic that I assumed it was normal to have more than one way to play old tcg’s that have been around for long enough. Like splitting into multiple formats was a natural evolution of how the game is played… I kinda forgot that a long standing TCG would only have 1 format
if you think yu-gi-oh is bad with its number of formats, the pokemon game has (to my knowledge): two official formats: standard (I would hazard a guess that standard accounts for over 95% of modern gameplay) and one non-rotating format (which is not fully supported on their digital client) two community formats: one “time capsule” format like how the yugioh gamers do it and one “highlander” format. There’s literally four, at least yugioh has niche options: better niche than nonexistent IMO. and like sure, you can make one: but that’s a huge task, and an unreasonable amount to ask of people who aren’t massively committed to the game.
I was floored when I picked up yugioh again that there was no "commander" variant. It's what encouraged me to make my channel. Now I play Domain and have never looked back!
@@domotoroOfficialCommander wasn’t made to become a new major format, let alone the face of magic. It was a kitchtable format that spread via the community. Its success wasn’t the goal. Neither should your’s.
@@domotoroOfficialnot even true. I still play many time capsules format and I also play alternate formats in pokemon with a card selection never seen in any standard.
as an mtg player hearing the yugioh people say cube is “not supported” is weird, and I worry they fundamentally misunderstand cube: the point of cube is to make your own draft set. Due to the fundamentals of how making it yourself works, there is no “being supported” necessary whatsoever: you just kinda make one and play with it. If a card seems too strong for your cube? you have editorial control, just don’t put it in. too many modern yugioh cards need archetypes to function properly? don’t put those cards in your cube, focus on the exceptions that aren’t a part of archetypes at all (which I’m assuming there have to be at least SOME of, right?)
Yeah, they're just making excuse. You can make alternative formats, it's just people don't want play them. Even in the videos, multiple alternative formats are mentioned, but then the 2 Yugioh players basically just say a variants of "well, no one plays them because Konami doesn't print packs specifically for them". Even then, at the end they do mention a format called Speed Duel that the company directly printed packs for. It's now discontinued because few people wanted to play it.
I can tell you the problem with a cube draft in Yu-Gi-Oh: You either use cards that are 20 years old (or at least play like them) and play unga-bunga, with the best cards being something like a Colossal Dreadmaw equivalent in Yu-Gi-Oh, or you put archetypes in the cube, which are like Tribal spells. Most of them also lock you into either their type (which is like a creature type), their attribute (which is like their color I guess?), their archetype (which is just part of their name, Blue-Eyes would be one for example) or a combination of those. This means, that your draft is either just a playground 2005 format where you draft the biggest beatsticks with the best staples or one guy drafts this archetype, the other guy drafts the other archetype and you only get to decide on which staples you take away from your opponent. A lot of people who still play the game in the modern day, myself included, like the archetypes and decks they play and don't want to play something radically different, that feels like 2005 kitchen table Yu-Gi-Oh.
They mean that Yugioh's card design isn't conducive to making a cube. And it isn't, you can't play draft in Yugioh without it being totally terrible because the cards aren't modular like Magic.
@@Lobohobo Make a themed cube with a few archetypes that have synergy, maybe? Some Magic cubes do this, too. Pick archetypes with soft locks and synergies rather than hard-xeno locks. Dark locking is okay if your cube has a few different dark archetypes, for example.
WOTC could certainly "support cube" if they wanted to though. It would be cool to see an "intro cube" product that's designed to be essentially a core set for cube - all the basic lands you'll need for a cube, plus a load of cards designed to feel like a core set, that work well as a simple draft but that you can then swap out for your own favourite cards and themes over time. Cube has a huge barrier to entry because designing a good cube from scratch is very difficult, it'd be nice to have a starter kit to fill out all the parts of a cube you don't yet have good ideas for. As for yugioh - no, there aren't really any non-archetypal cards, not ones that are fun to play with. The fun of yugioh is the ways cards interact with each other, but non-archetypal cards are cards that don't interact.
It's not the right mentality to wait for Konami to support a new format before you'll give it a chance. New formats begin within the community, not without. EDH succeeded by Sheldon and a few others taking their EDH decks wherever they went and drumming up games within previously unexposed communities.
The underlying and fundamental problem with current YGO is that the object of the game is to turn a two player game into a one player game. This means that very often, the player who loses the game doesn't get to do anything (everything you attempt is interrupted in some way because the other player has tons of things they can do outside of their own turn), which of course is totally anti-fun and doesn't even really tap into any skill-based gameplay. Meta decks require very little skill beyond memorization, and you don't really see skill expression in many games outside of very top level play (which applies to less than 1 percent of the playerbase) because of the impact of luck-based handtraps which are cards you just get in your opening draw, zero skill required. So the game has basically reached a point where back-and-forth "fun" games where both players have to think hard about what they want to do and nobody wins off their first play are the exception, rather than the rule.
youre thinking of commander. Yugioh players dont like their top decks being probibitively expensive as winning a format where players are priced out is meaningless, unlike magic players
@@zepar6419 MTG Drafts are typically $20 to take part. So that's $20 for 60+ cards and several hour event. Sometimes, you get to pull $50+ cards from the packs you draft out of, making more than your investment back. Additionally, there is an official format called Pauper in which the absolute world best decks cost less than $150 to put together. Not sure where you got the idea that magic was all about spending money.
Jump Start styled packs may work for a limited format. Have 2 packs meet required library size, crack 3 and choose 2. A draft may never work, but theme sealed could
This! Jumpstart is way better than draft, because as good as draft is, it takes forever. In terms of time investment, Jumpstart is the BO1 to Draft being BO3, without sacrificing what makes drafting great in the first place. The only thing that would be better is a paper viable format that somehow incorporates progression like Cimo's Masterduel format!
@@Pistolsatsean its not better its just different. The time and skill of drafting IS the thing that players enjoy, thats why cube is popular. But if you dont enjoy the drafting process than jumpstart is a great alternative.
@@JoeNokers cube is different than draft though, in that it's popularity tends to be among more experienced players, who generally don't need to read and understand nearly as much of the card pool, especially as the card pool of a cube tends to stay the same. Drafting a new set especially if you are an entrenched player that follows spoiler season, you are going to be doing a lot more waiting and a lot less playing than if you were playing a cube. Jumpstart reduces that issue by presenting a lump of themed cards because even for a new player, it is easier to understand a card when it is present within a context. If a jumpstart deck contains Favorable Winds & Fae of Wishes, the player might not fully understand how or why to use Fae of Wishes, but oh it is a flying creature so it doesn't matter nearly as much as seeing Fae in a draft pool.
10:00 Part of the problem with "taking things back to the basics" is that, unlike Magic and Pokemon, where the game has rotating formats for cards to be designed around, YGO is more like Legacy was the only format, so the only way to sell new cards is to constantly power up new sets. This means that every new group of cards is meant to be played with a dozen actions a turn in mind (or those few actions end up in a result equivalent to those), so you essentially ban most of the newer cards (with new meaning well over a dozen years). You essentially end up at a retro format, like those mentioned.
Something like Canadian Highlander might be worth looking into. 100 card singleton, no ban list, but certain cards have point values and you can only have a certain number of total points in your deck.
Domain Format! Domain Format! Domain Format!. Seriously, it's an incredibly simple but awesome format that is extremely comparable to Magic's Commander. The only new rule is the Deck Master and its domain, but they become very intuitive after one or two games. It's extremely fun and the Discord is very active. Lots of people there even have as their main way of playing the game.
good luck convincing ocg players like me to play those, im sorry just use legend anthology or follow ocg 3vs3 bo1 shared ban that konami jp promoted heavily.
@@r3zaful The 3v3 format is interesting, but it's an entirely different beast from Domain. It's a 4-player free-for-all. I'd heavily recommend giving it a shot before dismissing it.
Yugioh players don't know how to deck build, much less evaluate a format. The jump from Timmy's first 40 cards to a constructed level deck is just so massive and so unguided by principles like curve or ratio that essentially every yugioh player begins netdecking, and most never stop. The reason we don't have cubes and variant formats and such popping up all the time is because, when they do, very few yugioh players come forward with the desire and the mechanics to engage with them.
It seems like the archetype-based design in Yugioh is just too prescriptive; every card explicitly tells you which other cards it wants to be played with, so people don't learn the reasons that certain types of cards want to be played together, because those reasons always partially boil down to "the cards said the same word on them".
@@InfernoTowelLoL I could say a lot about this, but I think the most instructive thing is that synergy is NOT very important in yugioh deck building, not historically and not currently, not in the way it is in magic where it's like your most serious guiding principle. Yugioh decks, whether in low power formats where game states simplify and go long, or in high power formats, where opening hands are everything, are ALL about role compression. In old school, every card is supposed to be able to function as a tempo card without ever being dead into a simplified board state or failing to one-for-one, and in new school, you want cards to be starters, extenders, and mid-combo pieces all at once, and you want your 15 card extra deck to contain an entire game's worth of threats, answers, ramp, combo pieces, etc.. We don't have a mulligan, we don't have summoning sickness, and we don't have lands to slow the game down - your deck better be as modular as it is powerful, and just synergetic enough not to misfire, because every hand has to do everything. The end result of this is constructed decks that are dense, non-linear meshes that are just as comfortable grinding as they are gassing out, to the point that, coming from "my deck summons a big dragon" or "my deck plays warriors that make warriors stronger", they're borderline incomprehensible, let alone buildable.
@@jkid1134 your archetype is your identity, its like fighting game where you main a character, yugioh is closer to choose your character type of game than card game.
All in all, as someone else commented, the main issue is actually the playerbase. For some reason unknown to me, most of the community trembles in fear wherever you mention an alternative format and are so, so quick to judge. "Oh X card is banned? Bad format." "You can do what? Broken, unplayable." It is really impressive how reluctant people are to try something different, but will eagerly speak how bad advanced yugioh is. Another issue is how people have some sort of rivalry between alt formats. For another reason also unknown to me, some folks seem to think you can only play one alt format and see the others has "opponents" that need to be "beaten". Like, chill, you can play more than one alt format just fine, you don't have to hate others just because they exist.
Limit 1 was my most hated format in md, first time around it was still just good 1 card combo turbo and the second time was the same except that had an archetype now. Nr was great tho
The first limit 1 is my favorite format they did, the second one is the second worst format they ever made (XYZ DC cup is by far their worst one). You can get away with so much jank with the first one because every deck was inconsistent and hand traps were less common; the only degenerate strat I can remember was rank 7 turbo swordsoul, but that was so inconsistent. For the second one however, tear was already playing like it was limit 1 on ranked, so was branded. And if you were hoping the event was a reprieve from rank where every game is just snake eyes. Too bad, snake eyes is still by far the best deck even with everything at one. Managed to finish the event with gold pride-p.u.n.k-kashtira-adventure- pile, but it was miserable the whole way through
Didn't get into the second Limit 1, but the first one really was great. Played something like Crusadia/Sky Strikers/Kaiju pile Just a good banlist is needed and maybe it could work.
I'd love to see a domain format video, or really any alt format video! I tried domain out, and it seemed interesting, but didn't really click for me. I'd be curious to see what you all do with it
@domainformat I definitely think it was how I built the deck, while I was playing I felt that with the right archetypes it could really shine, just haven't given it another shot yet!
Just balance the entire game around EARTH Machine. I'm totally serious, EARTH Machine represents all the best parts of the game without being overly oppressive. It's also the manliest deck and makes you grow chest hair.
One of magics most popular "alternative" format in Pauper does have a direct translation to yugioh Common Charity! It's a decently popular and very fun format that sadly fell off a bit since master duel released right when common charity was picking up speed.
@@grafinakaasu9048 because it doesn't? Go look it up. Ash has a common printing now of all cards. It's pretty much arbitrary what is and isn't legal in CC.
Did it survive at all? Looking it up and like every mention of it is like 2 years old. I love pauper mtg cause even at it’s most cut throat and mean it’s still not nearly as warcrimes going on in modern and commander at any given moment. Also that there’s practically no wall of being priced out of the best possible options when your big expensive card is a normal formats budget option.
@@grafinakaasu9048 because hyper powerful decks can be printed mostly in common, or decks can have only 1 card in the entire archetype. Rarity in yugioh solely exists to make a handful of needed cards rare, and the other piles of rare cards are pack filler. Yugioh doesn't balance cards around rarity, and because you NEED an archetype for a deck to function in yugioh, it just boils down to which decks were printed at common, which says nothing about speed of the game given rarities aren't distributed thoughtfully (it'd mean the decks are cheap though so thats a + )
My first suggestion would be alternate formats where the type of extra deck monster type. I.e. a format with only Fusion&Synchro. A format with only XYZ. A format with only Link etc…
The problem is nobody can decide what to allow and not allow and everyone has their little favorites and there's not enough overlap between ideologies to form any coherent format around at a community level They use time because that's the only metric. That is how modern, standard, legacy etc work, its based on time. The real problem is that the yugioh community clearly doesnt have the motivation to make these formats a thing because they just aren't providing a big enough improvement in the fun to justify adapting to it
@Helminiack yugioh players also play the cards they like. It's just an uphill battle against modern meta or trying to supplement the cards yoh like with new cards that make it not lose horribly.
I think one of the big paradigm changes in mtg commander is the amount of players. From a game theory perspective it shakes up a lot of things: pressing the trigger on one person leaves you open to the other two, and you have 3 persons that can hinder your combos instead of one. That switched the deck construction focus from trying to go as fast as possible to value oriented build, which lets everyone does their thing kinda.
A kind of Droll format where you can only use one "from your deck" effect per turn could be pretty interesting, maybe drawing could be the exception but it would certainly slow down and change the game
Would love to see some Domain/Goat format gameplay! I have a lot of nostalgia from early YGO and tried getting into Master Duel, but the barrier to entry is so high now! You gotta read novels and guides to even begin to understand what your deck wants to do. Recently got into Commander, and been really enjoying it, so hearing YGO has a similar community format sounds interesting to me! 👀
Surely it wouldn't be hard to make a Yu-Gi-Oh cube? You have two 'cubes', the main deck cube and the extra deck cube, and you try and have as much generic archetype support while also having a couple 'real' archetypes thrown in that you can draft into, and the extra deck cube can have some really powerful pieces that are generic (mainly links if we're being real) but then with some specific archetype cards too. It would take someone or a community with a lot of game knowledge to put together, but I think cubes would be a really fun time.
I think Edison has shaped up to be THE secondary format. The community is pretty big, the side events at big events always have a lot of entrants and some stores even do edison locals
The problem with fixed format like Goat or Edison is that they will never change I just can't see a format with nothing new becoming interesting long term. It's a nice change of pace after advanced but it will get old after a few years and the meta has been definitely solved. Plus it doesn't have any big money potential for Konami to support it, unlike Domain which evolve continuously with each new sets and you could totally sell Domain decks themed after popular anime cards or archetypes new and old.
@@moggtow you should try actually playing Edison, the meta changes all the time. There are new builds, new techs and even completely new decks all the time. Just a few days ago a completely new gladiator beast build with guardian eatos won a big tournament for example
@@nico9912 I know but eventually the format will be solved it is inevitable, at best we will end up getting some kind of cycling meta where a dozen of decks are either strong or weak against the other top deck. Still with no new cards the format will end up becoming stale even if it's years from now
@@nico9912 I am Edison strongest soldier and i do love how alive the format is but is not hard to see how discovering that you can play fishborg in frogs or that amaryllis is not a burn deck but a tytaniall spam deck is just not enought for a lot of player in the long period, especially if nostalgia isn't a factor
Before I stopped playing yugioh, friends and I tried making a cube. The biggest issue we had was balancing due to all the different archetypes having vastly different power levels and support.
did y’all consider trying a cube that forgoes “yugioh-style archetypes” entirely, and doesn’t support them? I’m not a yugioh player, but I assume that would be a reasonable option (if potentially time-consuming to construct). Rather than focusing on the “yugioh-style archetypes” that are just cards built to go in the same deck, why not consider focusing on supporting “traditional archetypes” of card games in the cube, such as stuff like an aggressive strategy, a slow strategy, a graveyard strategy, a strategy about cheating big dudes out, etc? You could also go a route more unique to yugioh: because any deck can run any card (especially if we’re not including “yugioh-style archetypes”) why not try just throwing a bunch of fun cards y’all like into the cube and trying to avoid power outliers? That might lead to a lot of “good stuff” type decks, but that doesn’t mean the gameplay can’t be fun, interesting, and/or rewarding! I know this advice may be too late because you’ve stopped playing, but I think it’s entirely worth considering options more ‘outside the box’ when making a cube!
@@domotoroOfficial Having played both MTG and YGO the way I would describe YGO archtypes isn't like Midrange, Control and Aggro, but instead each YGO archetype is a tribal/kindred strategy where if you don't pick cards of the exact same type they just do not work, which is why draft and cube are so hard to do in YGO.
@@ShinyWasTakenTwiceNot only that but, to keep the tribal analogy going, not every time that Goblins are made do they work the same. For example the first Goblin deck might have been a rush beat down deck. But the second one is a burn deck. The third is a stall deck. They're all supposed to work together, but most of the time they don't.
There's a lot of generic options and broad archetype support though, and I don't mean archetype like 'Prank Kids' but an archetype like synchro summoning, or burn, or beat down. You could support these archetypes while also being generic enough to make them draftable- like there's nothing wrong with adding the Danger! cards to a cube cuz you don't need to be a Danger! deck to make use of one or two copies or something, and an Upstart Goblin or Ring of Destruction is gonna be clutch no matter what deck you're drafting.
@@Level_1_Frog The problem I have with a format like that is that it feels like a watered down, playground-like format, that doesn't capture why I play the game at all. I like a lot of archetypal decks and also some pile lists that harmonize well, but playing random good stuff feels like what I played when I started the game with some friends in school. And after playing this game for around 20 years that's definitely not what I would like to go back to. Maybe other people have different opinions on that? I don't really know. But except for edison and goat, all the other formats really didn't make a huge splash, so I would guess a lot of the other players have aligning opinions.
I've been brainstorming this for over a year and have finally put together my thoughts on a hypothetical new format that allows modern yugioh to have a fresh feel. First off you start the game with 0 action points. You gain an action point at the start of each of your End Phases. These Action Points refresh during your Standby Phase and must be "exhausted" to resolve certain actions. Activating a Spell/Trap card on the field or from the hand. Resolving an inherent Special Summon. Activating a monster effect from the hand. Lastly the following 2 balance measures for a little bit of spice. First, the player going second gets an extra action point at the start of the duel that goes away once exhausted. Second, this format uses the Traditional Banlist with the following exceptions. Feel free to ban additional cards in your local play group if something feels unfun. Banned: "Question" "Victory Dragon" "Last Will" "Last Turn" "Self Destruct Button" No other bans, only limits. Enjoy toying with this with your friends at locals! Looking forward to seeing some duels from you all beyond my own testing. So far it kinda just feels like really broken goat format at first. Which then becomes a cool race late game to OTK with the fewest possible resolutions.
I am mainly an MtG player, but decided I'd try my hand at something for s&g's. Orphaned Archetype Format Deckbuilding When building your deck you must select a single main deck monster to be your Deck Master and either one attribute /or/ one monster type. All monsters in your main deck must either have both its type and attribute match that of the Deck Master or the chosen type/attribute with the other matching the Deck Master's type/attribute. When building the deck, you may only have a single copy of any given card and if a card is part of an archetype you may not have any other cards of that archetype in the deck (the Deck Master is not considered to be part of the main deck, and the main deck may not contain a copy of the Deck Master). The main deck must contain exactly 60 cards. Deck Master Archetypes If the Deck Master is part of an archetype, then during play any card that references an archetype in its rules text should be treated as if it is referencing the Deck Master's Archetype instead. In addition, each monster in the main deck is treated as if it was part of the same archetype as the Deck Master. During Play The Deck Master starts the game banished in the "Deck Master Zone," and during your MP1 you may pay half of your lifepoints to add the Deck Master to you Deck, Hand or GY. If the Deck Master would leave the field or GY you may instead choose to return it to the Deck Master Zone instead at no cost. At the start of the game you use the London Mulligan rule while drawing your starting hand.
We have a limit one 60 cards deck and the game is now 10 times more sacky because how yugioh work is every single card CAN and will turn into combo. With all handtraps limited to one as well now drawing them is also harder at 60 cards.
We actually did a Heart of the Underdog tournament last year and it went pretty well. We talked a few times where we want to draw the line and banned every meta deck (at the time Traptrix and stronger), some strong staples and generic boss monster. In the end the decks that topped were Orcust, Dragonmaid and Marincess. We will most likely do it again next year and one day I would like to try an even weaker format, "Pride of the Weak" as I would call it. There are so many fun modern decks that just can't do anything against any decent (not even meta) deck from the last 5 years and it's a shame to not have a place for them to be played.
i've played both ygo and mtg, and I remember milling about how to translate one format to another, and i had this idea to mimic Brawl format, its like commander but smaller. so here are the fundamentals that i was able to think through: YGO should be an additive format to the existing game but gives a some restrictions to the additions not to existing rules. 1. your commander = boss monster - this gets a new zone next to the field spell zone. Things to consider, what restrictions are need to select a commander, in my mind there are a few: must have a level that would need 2 monsters to tribute summon it, if it can be alternatively summoned like fusion..etc treat its Boss monster zone as if it is the extra deck or respective zone it needs to be in to be summoned, add a summoning tax: my thought here is to use a hand mechanic, so when it is destroyed it gets a counter and to summon it again you must banish a card equal to the number of counters with a max of 5 and then draw that many cards. Pretty simple restrictions that could add a very creative addition to the game imo. 2. Deck building - Magic uses the commander attributes to dictate the kind of cards you can use in the deck, but that kind of does not mesh well with YGO mechanics, So lets do it backwards: your deck will get the following restrictions, deck size must be 60, extra deck can be up to 14(boss monster zone counts as slot 15), and any monster card that matches the majority archetype of your deck can be your Boss monster(as well as the restriction set in rule 1), all cards are extended to 4 instead of 3 unless they are on the banned and restricted list. your boss monster is a 1 of and no others can be in your deck. 3. Life points and win conditions - all the typically ways but things are a bit different to make the games longer and more satisfying, move from 8000 to 10000 and from a 1on1 game to a 4 player count. and add a boss monster damage counter if your boss monster has dealt 10000 direct damage from battle you win the game and all other players lose.
Jamin finding out what Konami has done to the game in real time and having the ideas not stick was funny and a little sad at the same time. Wish Yugioh gets what magic has eventually. Great discussion and content!
What he's being told is basically "well this alternative format exists but we refuse to play it till Konami says it's a format." Which is exactly the opposite of what he's saying which is "play the format and make it popular and eventually Konami will acknowledge it and support it"
Out of the dozens of card shops I've played at (and worked for) that run YGO tournaments in the last 20 years.... 2 of them have fully supported alternate formats. The card shops simply don't have any desire to support YGO in general; even if most of their customers are playing. I worked as the "YGO" guy at a store once, and was able to get around 100 players concurrently every month because I supported alternate formats. But the moment the store was able to get FNM going, the owners lost all interest in YGO and as a result, lost 90% of our YGO players.
Singles format sounds very fun. Just play a old archtype and play all the fun nieche support cards (+flavor cards if your archtype doesnt have much cards).
The main issue with domain is that a lot of archetypes are built around 3 copies per deck in a 40 card deck, so when you go to singleton, you only have like 15 main deck cards in archetype in a format where the deck size is 60 unless your archetype has been around for a long time and has had tons of support (HERO)
It's kind of funny that there seems to be no common Yu-Gi-Oh Commander format considering one of the inspirations for Commander were the deck masters from the Yu-Gi-Oh anime. Regarding custom ban lists: Our local Digimon community does this regularly. Every time a new main set comes out (currently ~every 6-8 weeks) we play "Non-Meta Locals". Someone from our community curates a ban list with suggestions from everyone else. Everyone can then voluntarily adhere to the ban list and we have extra prizes for the people who play non-meta. Player turnout has never suffered in those weeks and usually everyone also has a deck adhering to the ban list.
You guys should do a series of videos just explaining different alternate formats each week. I've only heard of some of the ones mentioned in this video and a full explanation of domain might get me into it.
Yu-Gi-Oh Deck Master format: (tldr: select deck master monster, signature spell, and personal trap, 1 of every card 60 deck size) 1. Select a monster to be your deck master. Other monsters in your deck may only be summoned in the same way as the deck master (tribute, ritual, fusion, xyz, pendulum, special). The deck master starts the duel on the field in the master zone. Monsters in the master zone cannot be targeted or affected by any cards, nor can they attack or be attacked, though they do count for card effects like having a dark type monster on the field. 1a. Once per turn a player may activate their deck master ability. (Abilities are either the monsters effects [e g. if this monster destroys a card in battle... -> target monster gains this effect until next turn]), perhaps modified for a DM format, or a generic effect based upon element/attribute for monsters with no effect). 1b. A player may summon their deck master to a monster zone at any time with all their remaining LP transferred to the deck masters attack or defense. The player is now unable to be attacked directly, and loses the game if the deck master leaves the field under any condition except reverse summoning. 1c. A player may reverse summon their deckmaster during their main phase, with the same cost it took to bring out the deck master. Their LP are returned, however, if their deck masters attack or defense was lowered then only a proportional amount of LP are returned. 2. Select a signature spell. This card is added to your starting hand. If this card is in the graveyard, you may pay 2000LP (4000LP if banished) to add it to your hand. 2a. If you summon this card to your hand, you may not play any other spells besides your signature spell for the rest of your turn. 2b. This card may be banished from anywhere to pay the costs of a card effect or summon. If you do, you may not play any more spells until the end of your turn. 3. Select a personal trap. This card starts the duel face down in a spell/trap zone. 3a. You may tribute one monster, discard a card, or pay 2000LP to summon this card to the field and it may be activated immediately.
Back when I played yugioh, I tried to get my LCS to do a yugioh pauper tournament and they told me "if you can get 7 other people at minimum to agree to show up, we can hold one on XYZ day." So I spent the next week and a half trying to get people to play and I managed to convince 2 people to show up.
I'd like to see a cover of domain format. I've been looking into it myself, made a list too, but haven't had the chance to try it. I too feel like Yu-Gi-Oh needs an alternative mode that is a) not just a time capsule of an old format and b) a completely separate game with each own cards(speed duels/ rush). I want to use the cards I already have and collected to play in different ways.
Please, play Domain format. It's not that hard to build your decks. If you just want to have fun, you can simply put all cards from your archetype and play it without any worries (and it will feel like an anime episode). But you can also really try hard and build a very synergistic deck. It's fun whether you want to play very casually or competitively. Please give it a try.
You don't need extra formats to be a good card game. You just need to be a good card game. L5R was a good card game. I am still sad they decided to just end it.
Make a video on Common Charity, Edison or any of the other formats! You have the visibility and power to bring new people to those formats rather than just complain.
My best shot: No searching, no sideboard, no alt win conditions, and all cards have all names (so your basic vanilla mirror force is also an elemental hero, lightsworn, dark magician, harpy lady, etc).
I think the best you can do is randomized rules. Ex: only two enngine decks or two archetype decks. No handtraps. Monsters can't attack the turn they are summoned. All traps can be played as though they were normal spells. Each week a tournament is played with a new restriction or rule.
Magic player! I've played Standard, Pioneer, Sealed, Commander, Two-Headed Giant Sealed, Two-Headed Giant Pioneer, (all more or less official) and then Horde, Tiny Leaders, Oathbreaker, and Oathbreaker Horde. Always wanted to try Emperor but never found a group to do it.
because of master duel i actually enjoyed D/D/D in the singleton format so much i actually climbed ladder with the deck i built, it was hard, but surprisingly it wasn't too different from playing the deck as normal and at least got to gold. I did not have the mental fortitude to get out of gold when flooandreeze and dinomorphia got added tho.
The comments are wild. Ygo is hard to learn, hard to play and hard to stand by. Saw one comment about a nice casual commander deck "only" costing 200 or less. Casual ygo decks (or decks that are almost meta) maybe cost 100 max. The only problem i see when playing ygo is not understanding powerlevels. While in magic you have to had played like 3 or 4 rounds to really see a difference in power, ygo immediatly tells you if your deck is either too strong or too weak. If you and your friendgroup can balance your decks around each others youll be having fun
What makes yugioh's problems so hard to solve is that the fundamental rules are not the issue in terms of variance, but the way cards are designed. There is the hyper-insular archetype-based design problem, but there's more than that. Reliance on resources of almost certain consistency (extra deck, deck fetching), a lack of accounting for the resourceless nature of yugioh, excessive protections, konami's idea of balancing being throwing in a couple of direct counter cards or things that just overwhelm the opponent even faster to prevent whatever was making the problem, etc... It all contributes to making the game run in an extremely oppressive manner that gives players - especially those who don't derive their fun from deck optimization at the expense of everything else - little to no breathing room. It's not just that some cards only work with other specific cards, but also that a lot of cards are practically must include for a given deck strategy just on account of being the only things efficient enough to not make you lose for certain.
Speaking as someone that's judged games at most levels (from casual LGS games all the way up to being a L2 at a YCS), there's one aspect that really wasn't mentioned. The players. I've seen stores try to do Common Charity, Edison, Deck Master/Domain, etc. tournaments and nobody cares. Nobody shows up. Even when you throw in a cash prize and invest in getting the word out, they shrug it off only to then come around during the weekly tourney for Advanced. I know "pet decks" were mentioned but I feel that's different. If it was just an insistence on their pet deck, Dark Magician and Blue-Eyes decks would constantly be competitively viable because tournament attendance would fall off otherwise. Archetypes like Sky Strikers, Harpies, and Trickstars would be treated similarly... for obvious reasons. Some of it might be ignorance, sure, but plenty of it is just the players going, "Typical Yugiboomer" and feeling apathy because they don't see a problem... or they complain about the problems but don't want to step outside of their comfort zone to do anything different (and let's be honest, ALL OF US know a few of those types). Some people might not way to say it, or don't particularly like it, but the community themselves are one of the biggest problems keeping Yu-Gi-Oh from finding the kind of success it used to have. Konami shoulders plenty of blame, without question, but they aren't solely to blame either.
As someone who plays alternative formats, I sole heartely agree. It's way too common for me to mention an alt format to someone and they go "but, idk" then find the smallest excuse to back off, "oh, X card is banned, this format is broken/bad", without giving it muxh thought. (Like if advanced is not broken enough).
most yugioh players don't like building decks, a new format means having to figure out what decks are viable and get the cards to build them and people usually just wait for someone else to tell them what to play in a format
Pauper/Common Charity doesn't work for Yugioh because outside of exactly Lunalight virtually every deck is crippled by missing core cards never printed in common. Hero is almost functional in the format too but they're missing like 3 cards in a common printing to be consistent
Our local underdog is great ngl, we do a banlist based on discussion with vetos by the organizer, and it basically ygo 2 metas behind, and most floodgates banned.
Please play Domain Format on the channel! It's my favorite way to play Yugioh, and we could really use more publicity on it. You can look up Yugioh Commander's video on the rules and turn some decks that you guys have into domain format decks. 4 player duels have so many potential outcomes, and they can be a ton of fun, so i think it'd be great for a video!
The difficulty of making a healthy format is that it can't incorporate everyone. Changing or limiting things will naturally block people out of playing what they want. And with how much deck building variety is possible, to limit it naturally excludes people, even if the result is still enjoyable. So that hurdle alone, to say "You can't play your deck or a deck like it because the rules either disallow or strongly disincentivize it" (For example, a format where you start at 1 life point would not lend itself to midrange creature combat), that's gonna push people back to the format where you can play anything, even if said format isn't the most enjoyable place to play it.
So if I were to design a Yu-Gi-Oh "commander" format there are a few things I would say. First your commander must be a normal summonable monster. This allows the tax to work within the Yu-Gi-Oh rules. For deck building restrictions: -Singleton -80 cards (could do 100 but the way Yu-Gi-Oh is built might not work as well) -Extra Deck limited to 10 cards (might even go down to 5) the idea being that you shift the focus away from the extra deck and into the main deck -Monsters in your deck and extra deck must share a type, attribute, or archetype name. (So if you did a dark magician deck you could include magician of faith and dmoc, but not buster blader or ash blossom) That's as far as I can take it having not played Yu-Gi-Oh in 10+ years. You probably also don't want to use the official banlist, you probably want to do something more tailored to the format.
I hate how the game is reduced to just archetypes essentially. That's what ruined it for me. Building decks isn't that fun anymore because you can't really build unique or original decks very easily anymore.
OMG I switched to magic a few years ago after I didnt play yugioh (mostly because of changing friend groups from school to university) 11:00 I understood that Gladiator reference. :D I stopped playing arround the time the first XYZ came out. I still have my morphtronic, gladiator beast, blackwing, spelldamage trap controle deck(yeah unplayable today but it was super fun back than, no wonder I landed as a blue main player in magic) and toon deck. Sadly I think about selling them because I honestly dont like how the game is played today and neither have I friends who play it.
Also speed duel sounds like the closest yugioh has to commander. YOu dont have a card but a allways (once) available ability. That being said speed duel sounds like the duel thing with bikes that the 5ds anime had.
That's a great idea! Just get rid of the restrictions of Yu-Gi-Oh cards and it would probably create the most fun format ever. You know what, just delete the phrase on Branded Fusion, that locks you into fusions, and problem solved. Imagine that. With Branded Fusion you can send any light or dark monster or any BBW (beast, beast-warrior or winged beast) to the graveyard and more. Imagine what one could do, if you could combine Branded with everything!
Considering how many alternative formats happen in the anime (and especially the video games), I am very surprised none of them have caught on for yugioh, even if only in very niche communities. Like, there was an entire season that was basically EDH format, i feel like that would synnergize so well with how archetypal yugioh is now!
nice! more mtg x ygo! knowing both magic and yugioh, yeah, the format thing really is a huge difference between yugioh and mtg. magic has all these different ways to play the same cards, and it's all very fun, while in yugioh there's only really one way to play, with the cards themselves acting as restrictions on how they could be played, making other formats difficult to create and play with the same amount of fun as the main format is.
No matter what the new format should be, it is important that you can play the decks sensibly against someone who doesn't know the format and doesn't have a suitable deck.
As someone who has run and been in early for a lot of alt formats like you describe, the issue is that because of HOW modern cards are designed, any format without widespread sweeping changes to the rules will look functionally the same as advanced format. The best deck is the best deck, if it wasnt konami couldnt sell packs
Please do video on Domain. That's sounds really interesting and could be fun to play. New formats won't ever be successful unless we as a community are willing to actually give them a chance and inform others about them.
meanwhile over here in magic world, we made a format where we just draw on our cards to make them say whatever we want, and it's hilarious and i love it
Konami would never do this and whales would hate this but I think they should just bite the bullet. Release a core set that is huge and entirely reprints and then start a new rotation with only that core set legal. Going forward, design new sets with a 2 year rotation in mind and lean into attributes rather than archetypes for card synergies. When designing cards, treat the 6 attributes as the only 6 archetypes each of which has strengths and weakness, like color pie theory in magic.
Set rotation would kill the game. Everyone who has invested money into staples gets jipped, people who only play their pet decks all leave, and Yugioh loses many of its defining qualities that make it unique and enjoyable. I feel like whenever people try to “fix” Yugioh they always just try to turn it into a shitty version of Magic when that isn’t the solution.
I'd argue Master Duels festivals fill a similar niche to alternative formats for a casual audience in YGO. There were also also several alt formats like rush duel, duel links (it's bigger than hearthstone!) and duel terminal.
There are attempts at mapping Yu-Gi-Oh onto a commander template. This works fine in practice. Thing is, both Yu-Gi-Oh and Commander are infamous for complicated board states, and putting those two things together makes the whole thing complex as hell.
A really broken but potential format would be Dual Type, each deck focuses on 2 archetypes and each monster within those archetypes count as both archetypes. So for instance, all of my rescue-ace monsters are also Salamangreat monsters, and all of my Salamangreat monsters are also Recue-ace monsters
When i click on the thumbnail i thought this vidéo was about a problem "how i win in this situation" like chess puzzle. I thought the discussion about format is just a introduction before puzzle Ultimately i stay for a such interisting (and long) introduction ^^
I've solved it. Ygo players hate Floodgates, but only when your opponent plays them. How about a 'Floodgate' format: grab 10 of the most hated (or beloved) floodgates printed, and 2 or 3 of them start randomly in play, but not owned by either player. They can be interacted with like usual spells/traps. And will add another mini game about waiting to get rid of a piece that stops your deck, bc it may unlock the opponents cards.
Masterduel did an event like that, a format where both players always started with skill drain in hand. It was interesting but it devolved into people just playing true draco and eldlich.
Building on this, how about a cooperative game: one player takes the role of the villain and plays one of the decks everyone hates, everyone else cooperates to beat that player but has to play a deck that isn't unpopular.
Sooo... How about making all archetypes one. Lets make a rule that each time card mentions archetype like blue eyes, red eyes or whatever it can use any card that belongs to any archetype. Sounds crazy chaos. But might be fun?
What hurt Speed Duel the most was that in order to play your card, you need a Speed Duel printing of said card. Common Charity has the same problem. You need to play the common printing of the card. No one wants yo have to buy new copies of cards they already have. Magic doesn't do this. I can play my 9th edition Forests in Standard, my Revised Lightning Bolts in Modern, and my Uncommon Goblin Grenades in Pauper.
Commander style but you get to pick one creature type and any creatures you put in your deck become that type, and maybe also their abilities get altered to affect that type. Like a dude who pulls a dragon type from your graveyard will instead pull whatever your chosen type is. Maybe both together would be too much lol
The 200 color comparison really hits the nail on the head. YGO's reliance on archetypes just precludes any limited format. The game is designed in such a way that power-creep is the only reason to buy a new set.
No? There's a lot of archetype that has synergy with each others, and some archetype card that are even better in different archetype entirely unlike mtg's color system are
Why not, in drafts only, have a rule that says whenever an archetype is mentioned on a card it counts as any archetype?
For example a card says to search your deck for a red-eyes card, you may search your deck for a dark magician instead.
@@grimrapper5202 Not anymore. When was the last time an old archetype that was a few years old suddenly saw play cos it had good synergy with a new deck? Maybe 1 copy of a card from old sets will be in a new deck but that's it. Now these new archetypes just get stacked on top of each other with every new set. Or they take old archetypes and power creep every single old card. Look at Fiendsmith getting splashed into the top decks. Barely 10% of every new set is meta relevant but at least in Magic if that was the case it could still be drafted.
@@blueplayer6197 I think some formats try to do this, the "risk" is balance. It essentially turns the cube into Powered Cube equivalent and may be tricky to balance without careful cube construction
@@Steamedhams578 Snake-eyes and fire kings?, Tribrigade and Lyrilusc? Branded and Fluffals? A bunch of archetypes synergize with each other.
I don’t understand the there is no community argument. Card Market! you have the power to promote new formats! If you did a domain game once a month to a year.I believe it will see growth.
yo this man spittin
What you're ignoring is that ANYTIME alternative formats were proposed, either by the community or by Konami, they get shot down.
Rush Duel? Is middling success and isn't coming outside of Japan. Not even Korea, China, and Thailand get it.
Speed Duels? Was considered an okay at best, if not actively bad, reprint style set.
The only thing that has taken off is Time Wizard/Retro formats.
Highlander didn't take off because even a decade ago everyone realized the correct answer is Dragons. It was always Dragons. That answer never changed.
And I believe that's the only time I ever heard of an alternative format for Yu-Gi-Oh having ANY mainstream coverage. Unless you wanna count the ARG ban list shit show. Or its successor.
@@aaronwishard7093 That is a competitive mind set. At the end of the day Yu-Gi-Oh is a game. There are many different types of people that play Yu-Gi-Oh for different reasons. So if I want to play a pet deck, Konami doesn’t have to support it, because if I have format that supports my pet deck and a majority of players understand and also play the format, then Konami can’t stop us. Domain to me, looks like it supports many pet decks.
It’s about finding a balance between Playground yu gi oh and a competitive deck list. Many mtg commander player don’t even compete or even go for the optimal builds. And if I participate in a game that where there is no torment, than Konami not support it won’t effect Domain.
Wotc didn’t support commander right out the gate, it took time and a community movement that kept growing. Famously, wotc doesn’t even control the commander ban list.
I stoped playing yu gi oh in 2011 ( frog monarch player! Treeborn frog ftw ) and switch to merfolk in mtg. These konami arguments to me, sound like yu gi oh player are a little browbeaten. I understand konami is a nightmare to deal with but you don’t need Konami to play the game. ( at this point, yes there is a essential relation to konami printing the cards )
@@aaronwishard7093 I think overall you're right about the existing formats, but calling Rush Duel middling doesn't really settle with me. JP is a very competitive market when it comes to TCGs and it's in the top ten most sold card games there. For being a secondary card game to the second most successful TCG they have, it's pretty good. Here in the west, I don't see alt TCGs like that happening though, because TCG Konami reaps in too much cash with the standard TCG. After speed duels flopped, they will never try something like it again I think.
@@Lobohobo The reason I called Rush Duels middling is because of exactly what you said. Just because it's big in Japan doesn't mean it'll do anything outside of Japan. It's why I cited even the rest of the OCG market isn't getting it. The TCG isn't getting it at all. Being the 10th most popular thing in Japan doesn't mean anything when nobody in the rest of the world is saying it's very meh
You gotta play domain. People won't play a format if they don't know about it. This is your chance to shine. Also domain gameplay is pretty entertaining to watch.
Definitely second this. Like, if people burned by the normal game learn about new alternative formats, they might decide to try it out!
Yeah, like, you run a RUclips channel! If no-one plays alternative formats then choose one and champion it!
I agree, I was baffled when one of them said we wont put a video on it cause its not famous but it's fun,THEN DO A VIDEO ABOUT IT AND MAKE IT MORE FAMOUS, help out a bit.
🫡 My man!!
I played domain once, if there was a playgroup in seattle i would get a deck for it, i just hate tabletop sim and duelingbook so i dont play
I refuse to believe that a magic player could solve yugioh's biggest problem - Konami.
Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't have a problem! -Konami
@@BaronSengir1008 I think they mean that Konami is Yu-Gi-Oh's biggest problem.
@@NaNa_W4NT5_F3MNM5 I thought it was a quote by Konami... Lol
@@BaronSengir1008 it still came off as funny though, as if Konami is completely clueless that they are the problem
Sure we can! We don't let WotC push us around!
...wait
Edit: One week later, WotC runs EDH. This comment aged better than I could have imagined.
"So many formats, you make new ones just to play for a few days"
We have formats dedicated to one quirky card like Dandan that try to capture the essence of Blue Magic.
We have Judge's Tower to capture the depth of weirdness of interactions in Magic where you set rules forcing how you must act on a turn and you pretty much lose only by illegal action, or not taking an action as soon as it was legal, or being wrong about thinking someone else was wrong. The Tower then turns over the most convoluted, bizarre and difficult to correctly resolve effects possible.
Formats are great
For all yugioh player, I highly reconmend rhystic studies's Dan dan video, its a great watch.
Unfortunately, 99% of what casual people are playing seems to be commander. It is often hard to find people to play something else.
@@Reluxthelegendthis, as a YGO player I gave MTG a fair try. Fcking got deep on formats strats bla bla bla, standar mtg has the same problem as current ygo and commander is close to if not just as expensive as ygo legacy formas, the difference is YGO players are acustomed to spend WAY less on cards than MTG players, the difference baffled me honestly, it's a really interesting phenomenon
@@Arcangel6791 wait no Yu gi oh can't be more expensive then commander commander decks can cost like more then $10000. I would be surprised if yu gi oh would have any tournaments if good decks are around that cost
@@akorthouwer Uhm... what? Unless you want to play cEDH unity bland, where every deck play the same 80 cards, then EDH is cheaper then many standard decks. (Well, ok, a single Sheoldred brings you on the cost of a full deck, so...)
Id like to see you guys play a multiplayer domain game. Seeing bigger channels try it out would really push it out to larger audience. Who knows maybe we could get a popular alternative format other than time wizard formats.
A close parallel for archetypal limitations in Yugioh would be tribal support in Magic. While it's technically closer in concept to types in Yugioh, archetypes are basically one more layer of type but instead of being a descriptor, it becomes part of the name
And I hate it. Ruined the game for me.
@@-Down-D-Stairs- Tribal support ruined magic for you??
this is lame it breaks established archetypes snd kills fun decks that have a ton of cool tech while xenophobic meta decks keep 90% of their cards (yubel)
I built a Vaalmonica ABC Therion Fiendsmith pile with lv7 syncrho enablers for AFD
I summon Light Earth Dark Water monsters and use Machines, Dragons, Fairies, Spellvasters, Fiends in my main deck as part of my "normal" main deck lines.
@@Nick-sw9tm No. They're a boomer who forgets that Gravekeepers are from DM. Archetypes are almost as old as the series/card game is
@@IC-23That sounds hideous lol
I got so used to how many formats there are in magic that I assumed it was normal to have more than one way to play old tcg’s that have been around for long enough. Like splitting into multiple formats was a natural evolution of how the game is played… I kinda forgot that a long standing TCG would only have 1 format
if you think yu-gi-oh is bad with its number of formats, the pokemon game has (to my knowledge):
two official formats: standard (I would hazard a guess that standard accounts for over 95% of modern gameplay) and one non-rotating format (which is not fully supported on their digital client)
two community formats: one “time capsule” format like how the yugioh gamers do it and one “highlander” format.
There’s literally four, at least yugioh has niche options: better niche than nonexistent IMO.
and like sure, you can make one: but that’s a huge task, and an unreasonable amount to ask of people who aren’t massively committed to the game.
I was floored when I picked up yugioh again that there was no "commander" variant. It's what encouraged me to make my channel. Now I play Domain and have never looked back!
@@domotoroOfficialCommander wasn’t made to become a new major format, let alone the face of magic. It was a kitchtable format that spread via the community. Its success wasn’t the goal. Neither should your’s.
@@domotoroOfficialnot even true. I still play many time capsules format and I also play alternate formats in pokemon with a card selection never seen in any standard.
@@domotoroOfficial Gym leader challenge has been gaining popularity. It's pretty fun too.
as an mtg player hearing the yugioh people say cube is “not supported” is weird, and I worry they fundamentally misunderstand cube: the point of cube is to make your own draft set. Due to the fundamentals of how making it yourself works, there is no “being supported” necessary whatsoever: you just kinda make one and play with it. If a card seems too strong for your cube? you have editorial control, just don’t put it in. too many modern yugioh cards need archetypes to function properly? don’t put those cards in your cube, focus on the exceptions that aren’t a part of archetypes at all (which I’m assuming there have to be at least SOME of, right?)
Yeah, they're just making excuse. You can make alternative formats, it's just people don't want play them. Even in the videos, multiple alternative formats are mentioned, but then the 2 Yugioh players basically just say a variants of "well, no one plays them because Konami doesn't print packs specifically for them". Even then, at the end they do mention a format called Speed Duel that the company directly printed packs for. It's now discontinued because few people wanted to play it.
I can tell you the problem with a cube draft in Yu-Gi-Oh: You either use cards that are 20 years old (or at least play like them) and play unga-bunga, with the best cards being something like a Colossal Dreadmaw equivalent in Yu-Gi-Oh, or you put archetypes in the cube, which are like Tribal spells. Most of them also lock you into either their type (which is like a creature type), their attribute (which is like their color I guess?), their archetype (which is just part of their name, Blue-Eyes would be one for example) or a combination of those. This means, that your draft is either just a playground 2005 format where you draft the biggest beatsticks with the best staples or one guy drafts this archetype, the other guy drafts the other archetype and you only get to decide on which staples you take away from your opponent. A lot of people who still play the game in the modern day, myself included, like the archetypes and decks they play and don't want to play something radically different, that feels like 2005 kitchen table Yu-Gi-Oh.
They mean that Yugioh's card design isn't conducive to making a cube. And it isn't, you can't play draft in Yugioh without it being totally terrible because the cards aren't modular like Magic.
@@Lobohobo Make a themed cube with a few archetypes that have synergy, maybe? Some Magic cubes do this, too.
Pick archetypes with soft locks and synergies rather than hard-xeno locks.
Dark locking is okay if your cube has a few different dark archetypes, for example.
WOTC could certainly "support cube" if they wanted to though. It would be cool to see an "intro cube" product that's designed to be essentially a core set for cube - all the basic lands you'll need for a cube, plus a load of cards designed to feel like a core set, that work well as a simple draft but that you can then swap out for your own favourite cards and themes over time. Cube has a huge barrier to entry because designing a good cube from scratch is very difficult, it'd be nice to have a starter kit to fill out all the parts of a cube you don't yet have good ideas for.
As for yugioh - no, there aren't really any non-archetypal cards, not ones that are fun to play with. The fun of yugioh is the ways cards interact with each other, but non-archetypal cards are cards that don't interact.
It's not the right mentality to wait for Konami to support a new format before you'll give it a chance. New formats begin within the community, not without. EDH succeeded by Sheldon and a few others taking their EDH decks wherever they went and drumming up games within previously unexposed communities.
From what I understand, Yugioh players just want to do their cool thing and hate when their opponent does anything
Correct, me hearing jamin say make the game slower and battle centric made me just say but I want to summon my vtuber phantom thieves
The underlying and fundamental problem with current YGO is that the object of the game is to turn a two player game into a one player game. This means that very often, the player who loses the game doesn't get to do anything (everything you attempt is interrupted in some way because the other player has tons of things they can do outside of their own turn), which of course is totally anti-fun and doesn't even really tap into any skill-based gameplay. Meta decks require very little skill beyond memorization, and you don't really see skill expression in many games outside of very top level play (which applies to less than 1 percent of the playerbase) because of the impact of luck-based handtraps which are cards you just get in your opening draw, zero skill required. So the game has basically reached a point where back-and-forth "fun" games where both players have to think hard about what they want to do and nobody wins off their first play are the exception, rather than the rule.
youre thinking of commander. Yugioh players dont like their top decks being probibitively expensive as winning a format where players are priced out is meaningless, unlike magic players
This is the discussion for dimensional shifter
@@zepar6419 MTG Drafts are typically $20 to take part. So that's $20 for 60+ cards and several hour event. Sometimes, you get to pull $50+ cards from the packs you draft out of, making more than your investment back. Additionally, there is an official format called Pauper in which the absolute world best decks cost less than $150 to put together.
Not sure where you got the idea that magic was all about spending money.
Jump Start styled packs may work for a limited format. Have 2 packs meet required library size, crack 3 and choose 2. A draft may never work, but theme sealed could
This! Jumpstart is way better than draft, because as good as draft is, it takes forever. In terms of time investment, Jumpstart is the BO1 to Draft being BO3, without sacrificing what makes drafting great in the first place. The only thing that would be better is a paper viable format that somehow incorporates progression like Cimo's Masterduel format!
@@Pistolsatseanyeah I have a box of 20 jumpstart packs and they're great fun.
@@Pistolsatsean its not better its just different. The time and skill of drafting IS the thing that players enjoy, thats why cube is popular. But if you dont enjoy the drafting process than jumpstart is a great alternative.
@@JoeNokers cube is different than draft though, in that it's popularity tends to be among more experienced players, who generally don't need to read and understand nearly as much of the card pool, especially as the card pool of a cube tends to stay the same. Drafting a new set especially if you are an entrenched player that follows spoiler season, you are going to be doing a lot more waiting and a lot less playing than if you were playing a cube. Jumpstart reduces that issue by presenting a lump of themed cards because even for a new player, it is easier to understand a card when it is present within a context. If a jumpstart deck contains Favorable Winds & Fae of Wishes, the player might not fully understand how or why to use Fae of Wishes, but oh it is a flying creature so it doesn't matter nearly as much as seeing Fae in a draft pool.
10:00 Part of the problem with "taking things back to the basics" is that, unlike Magic and Pokemon, where the game has rotating formats for cards to be designed around, YGO is more like Legacy was the only format, so the only way to sell new cards is to constantly power up new sets. This means that every new group of cards is meant to be played with a dozen actions a turn in mind (or those few actions end up in a result equivalent to those), so you essentially ban most of the newer cards (with new meaning well over a dozen years).
You essentially end up at a retro format, like those mentioned.
Something like Canadian Highlander might be worth looking into. 100 card singleton, no ban list, but certain cards have point values and you can only have a certain number of total points in your deck.
Domain Format! Domain Format! Domain Format!.
Seriously, it's an incredibly simple but awesome format that is extremely comparable to Magic's Commander. The only new rule is the Deck Master and its domain, but they become very intuitive after one or two games. It's extremely fun and the Discord is very active. Lots of people there even have as their main way of playing the game.
Every person I’ve played with has been pleasantly surprised!
good luck convincing ocg players like me to play those, im sorry just use legend anthology or follow ocg 3vs3 bo1 shared ban that konami jp promoted heavily.
@@r3zaful The 3v3 format is interesting, but it's an entirely different beast from Domain. It's a 4-player free-for-all. I'd heavily recommend giving it a shot before dismissing it.
And Commander killed Magic. So if you want Yu-Gi-Oh to die too keep propping up Domain.
@@Aaron-l3l6g WotC butchered EDH, Magic is doing just fine
Yugioh players don't know how to deck build, much less evaluate a format. The jump from Timmy's first 40 cards to a constructed level deck is just so massive and so unguided by principles like curve or ratio that essentially every yugioh player begins netdecking, and most never stop. The reason we don't have cubes and variant formats and such popping up all the time is because, when they do, very few yugioh players come forward with the desire and the mechanics to engage with them.
It seems like the archetype-based design in Yugioh is just too prescriptive; every card explicitly tells you which other cards it wants to be played with, so people don't learn the reasons that certain types of cards want to be played together, because those reasons always partially boil down to "the cards said the same word on them".
@@InfernoTowelLoL I could say a lot about this, but I think the most instructive thing is that synergy is NOT very important in yugioh deck building, not historically and not currently, not in the way it is in magic where it's like your most serious guiding principle. Yugioh decks, whether in low power formats where game states simplify and go long, or in high power formats, where opening hands are everything, are ALL about role compression. In old school, every card is supposed to be able to function as a tempo card without ever being dead into a simplified board state or failing to one-for-one, and in new school, you want cards to be starters, extenders, and mid-combo pieces all at once, and you want your 15 card extra deck to contain an entire game's worth of threats, answers, ramp, combo pieces, etc.. We don't have a mulligan, we don't have summoning sickness, and we don't have lands to slow the game down - your deck better be as modular as it is powerful, and just synergetic enough not to misfire, because every hand has to do everything. The end result of this is constructed decks that are dense, non-linear meshes that are just as comfortable grinding as they are gassing out, to the point that, coming from "my deck summons a big dragon" or "my deck plays warriors that make warriors stronger", they're borderline incomprehensible, let alone buildable.
@@jkid1134 your archetype is your identity, its like fighting game where you main a character, yugioh is closer to choose your character type of game than card game.
All in all, as someone else commented, the main issue is actually the playerbase.
For some reason unknown to me, most of the community trembles in fear wherever you mention an alternative format and are so, so quick to judge. "Oh X card is banned? Bad format." "You can do what? Broken, unplayable." It is really impressive how reluctant people are to try something different, but will eagerly speak how bad advanced yugioh is.
Another issue is how people have some sort of rivalry between alt formats. For another reason also unknown to me, some folks seem to think you can only play one alt format and see the others has "opponents" that need to be "beaten". Like, chill, you can play more than one alt format just fine, you don't have to hate others just because they exist.
Master Duel made me experience the joys of Limit 1 and N/R format
Limit 1 was my most hated format in md, first time around it was still just good 1 card combo turbo and the second time was the same except that had an archetype now.
Nr was great tho
@@greenhillmarioYeah NR was a lot of fun if I recall.
The first limit 1 is my favorite format they did, the second one is the second worst format they ever made (XYZ DC cup is by far their worst one).
You can get away with so much jank with the first one because every deck was inconsistent and hand traps were less common; the only degenerate strat I can remember was rank 7 turbo swordsoul, but that was so inconsistent.
For the second one however, tear was already playing like it was limit 1 on ranked, so was branded. And if you were hoping the event was a reprieve from rank where every game is just snake eyes. Too bad, snake eyes is still by far the best deck even with everything at one.
Managed to finish the event with gold pride-p.u.n.k-kashtira-adventure- pile, but it was miserable the whole way through
Didn't get into the second Limit 1, but the first one really was great. Played something like Crusadia/Sky Strikers/Kaiju pile Just a good banlist is needed and maybe it could work.
@@friesen_m they definitely needed a more heavy handed banlist for their events in general
I'd love to see a domain format video, or really any alt format video! I tried domain out, and it seemed interesting, but didn't really click for me. I'd be curious to see what you all do with it
Sad it didn't click for you, but we appreciate that you gave it a shot!
@domainformat I definitely think it was how I built the deck, while I was playing I felt that with the right archetypes it could really shine, just haven't given it another shot yet!
@@alexlemoine2548 Have you checked out some of the community resources? Most decks have alot more wiggle room than one might initially think.
Just balance the entire game around EARTH Machine. I'm totally serious, EARTH Machine represents all the best parts of the game without being overly oppressive. It's also the manliest deck and makes you grow chest hair.
This may have the potential to be the best format in the world… to you, at least 😂
-Taylor
Peeps.....we know it's your alt account
You’re so right though!
Get Triff in here lmfao
Please do domain. I would like to play yugioh again and have it actually be fun and domain seems the best wau anyone has found.
Yes please make a domain format video :)
YESSS
I discovered Domain through the video and to be honest, that's the solution. I just think the selection of domain monsters is a bit too open.
yeah, I think they need to be restricted to any monster that can't be normal summoned without a sacrifice, except with its effect
Make a domain format video!!
One of magics most popular "alternative" format in Pauper does have a direct translation to yugioh Common Charity! It's a decently popular and very fun format that sadly fell off a bit since master duel released right when common charity was picking up speed.
Common Charity doesn't really make any sense though because rarity is meaningless in yugioh.
@@yurisei6732 why do you think that?
@@grafinakaasu9048 because it doesn't? Go look it up. Ash has a common printing now of all cards. It's pretty much arbitrary what is and isn't legal in CC.
Did it survive at all? Looking it up and like every mention of it is like 2 years old. I love pauper mtg cause even at it’s most cut throat and mean it’s still not nearly as warcrimes going on in modern and commander at any given moment. Also that there’s practically no wall of being priced out of the best possible options when your big expensive card is a normal formats budget option.
@@grafinakaasu9048 because hyper powerful decks can be printed mostly in common, or decks can have only 1 card in the entire archetype. Rarity in yugioh solely exists to make a handful of needed cards rare, and the other piles of rare cards are pack filler. Yugioh doesn't balance cards around rarity, and because you NEED an archetype for a deck to function in yugioh, it just boils down to which decks were printed at common, which says nothing about speed of the game given rarities aren't distributed thoughtfully (it'd mean the decks are cheap though so thats a + )
My first suggestion would be alternate formats where the type of extra deck monster type. I.e. a format with only Fusion&Synchro. A format with only XYZ. A format with only Link etc…
The problem is nobody can decide what to allow and not allow and everyone has their little favorites and there's not enough overlap between ideologies to form any coherent format around at a community level
They use time because that's the only metric. That is how modern, standard, legacy etc work, its based on time.
The real problem is that the yugioh community clearly doesnt have the motivation to make these formats a thing because they just aren't providing a big enough improvement in the fun to justify adapting to it
@Helminiack yugioh players also play the cards they like. It's just an uphill battle against modern meta or trying to supplement the cards yoh like with new cards that make it not lose horribly.
This poor guy sitting in the middle like he's a hostage and wants to go home
I was finally allowed to go home yesterday 😶
- Poor guy in the middle
I think one of the big paradigm changes in mtg commander is the amount of players. From a game theory perspective it shakes up a lot of things: pressing the trigger on one person leaves you open to the other two, and you have 3 persons that can hinder your combos instead of one. That switched the deck construction focus from trying to go as fast as possible to value oriented build, which lets everyone does their thing kinda.
A kind of Droll format where you can only use one "from your deck" effect per turn could be pretty interesting, maybe drawing could be the exception but it would certainly slow down and change the game
Would love to see some Domain/Goat format gameplay! I have a lot of nostalgia from early YGO and tried getting into Master Duel, but the barrier to entry is so high now! You gotta read novels and guides to even begin to understand what your deck wants to do.
Recently got into Commander, and been really enjoying it, so hearing YGO has a similar community format sounds interesting to me! 👀
Id like to see a series of you guys developing this format you so wish existed.
Surely it wouldn't be hard to make a Yu-Gi-Oh cube? You have two 'cubes', the main deck cube and the extra deck cube, and you try and have as much generic archetype support while also having a couple 'real' archetypes thrown in that you can draft into, and the extra deck cube can have some really powerful pieces that are generic (mainly links if we're being real) but then with some specific archetype cards too. It would take someone or a community with a lot of game knowledge to put together, but I think cubes would be a really fun time.
You could always structure the cube similar to a commander draft pack from magic. Have a reserved slot for extra deck cards.
@@CatManThree yeah for sure.
I think Edison has shaped up to be THE secondary format. The community is pretty big, the side events at big events always have a lot of entrants and some stores even do edison locals
The problem with fixed format like Goat or Edison is that they will never change I just can't see a format with nothing new becoming interesting long term. It's a nice change of pace after advanced but it will get old after a few years and the meta has been definitely solved. Plus it doesn't have any big money potential for Konami to support it, unlike Domain which evolve continuously with each new sets and you could totally sell Domain decks themed after popular anime cards or archetypes new and old.
@@moggtow you should try actually playing Edison, the meta changes all the time. There are new builds, new techs and even completely new decks all the time. Just a few days ago a completely new gladiator beast build with guardian eatos won a big tournament for example
@@nico9912 I know but eventually the format will be solved it is inevitable, at best we will end up getting some kind of cycling meta where a dozen of decks are either strong or weak against the other top deck. Still with no new cards the format will end up becoming stale even if it's years from now
@@nico9912 I am Edison strongest soldier and i do love how alive the format is but is not hard to see how discovering that you can play fishborg in frogs or that amaryllis is not a burn deck but a tytaniall spam deck is just not enought for a lot of player in the long period, especially if nostalgia isn't a factor
I've only been enjoying cube lately. Constructed feels stale, but getting a fresh deck every game is awesome!
Before I stopped playing yugioh, friends and I tried making a cube. The biggest issue we had was balancing due to all the different archetypes having vastly different power levels and support.
did y’all consider trying a cube that forgoes “yugioh-style archetypes” entirely, and doesn’t support them? I’m not a yugioh player, but I assume that would be a reasonable option (if potentially time-consuming to construct).
Rather than focusing on the “yugioh-style archetypes” that are just cards built to go in the same deck, why not consider focusing on supporting “traditional archetypes” of card games in the cube, such as stuff like an aggressive strategy, a slow strategy, a graveyard strategy, a strategy about cheating big dudes out, etc?
You could also go a route more unique to yugioh: because any deck can run any card (especially if we’re not including “yugioh-style archetypes”) why not try just throwing a bunch of fun cards y’all like into the cube and trying to avoid power outliers? That might lead to a lot of “good stuff” type decks, but that doesn’t mean the gameplay can’t be fun, interesting, and/or rewarding!
I know this advice may be too late because you’ve stopped playing, but I think it’s entirely worth considering options more ‘outside the box’ when making a cube!
@@domotoroOfficial Having played both MTG and YGO the way I would describe YGO archtypes isn't like Midrange, Control and Aggro, but instead each YGO archetype is a tribal/kindred strategy where if you don't pick cards of the exact same type they just do not work, which is why draft and cube are so hard to do in YGO.
@@ShinyWasTakenTwiceNot only that but, to keep the tribal analogy going, not every time that Goblins are made do they work the same.
For example the first Goblin deck might have been a rush beat down deck. But the second one is a burn deck. The third is a stall deck.
They're all supposed to work together, but most of the time they don't.
There's a lot of generic options and broad archetype support though, and I don't mean archetype like 'Prank Kids' but an archetype like synchro summoning, or burn, or beat down. You could support these archetypes while also being generic enough to make them draftable- like there's nothing wrong with adding the Danger! cards to a cube cuz you don't need to be a Danger! deck to make use of one or two copies or something, and an Upstart Goblin or Ring of Destruction is gonna be clutch no matter what deck you're drafting.
@@Level_1_Frog The problem I have with a format like that is that it feels like a watered down, playground-like format, that doesn't capture why I play the game at all. I like a lot of archetypal decks and also some pile lists that harmonize well, but playing random good stuff feels like what I played when I started the game with some friends in school. And after playing this game for around 20 years that's definitely not what I would like to go back to. Maybe other people have different opinions on that? I don't really know. But except for edison and goat, all the other formats really didn't make a huge splash, so I would guess a lot of the other players have aligning opinions.
I've been brainstorming this for over a year and have finally put together my thoughts on a hypothetical new format that allows modern yugioh to have a fresh feel.
First off you start the game with 0 action points. You gain an action point at the start of each of your End Phases.
These Action Points refresh during your Standby Phase and must be "exhausted" to resolve certain actions.
Activating a Spell/Trap card on the field or from the hand.
Resolving an inherent Special Summon.
Activating a monster effect from the hand.
Lastly the following 2 balance measures for a little bit of spice.
First, the player going second gets an extra action point at the start of the duel that goes away once exhausted.
Second, this format uses the Traditional Banlist with the following exceptions. Feel free to ban additional cards in your local play group if something feels unfun.
Banned:
"Question"
"Victory Dragon"
"Last Will"
"Last Turn"
"Self Destruct Button"
No other bans, only limits.
Enjoy toying with this with your friends at locals! Looking forward to seeing some duels from you all beyond my own testing. So far it kinda just feels like really broken goat format at first. Which then becomes a cool race late game to OTK with the fewest possible resolutions.
I am mainly an MtG player, but decided I'd try my hand at something for s&g's.
Orphaned Archetype Format
Deckbuilding
When building your deck you must select a single main deck monster to be your Deck Master and either one attribute /or/ one monster type. All monsters in your main deck must either have both its type and attribute match that of the Deck Master or the chosen type/attribute with the other matching the Deck Master's type/attribute. When building the deck, you may only have a single copy of any given card and if a card is part of an archetype you may not have any other cards of that archetype in the deck (the Deck Master is not considered to be part of the main deck, and the main deck may not contain a copy of the Deck Master). The main deck must contain exactly 60 cards.
Deck Master Archetypes
If the Deck Master is part of an archetype, then during play any card that references an archetype in its rules text should be treated as if it is referencing the Deck Master's Archetype instead. In addition, each monster in the main deck is treated as if it was part of the same archetype as the Deck Master.
During Play
The Deck Master starts the game banished in the "Deck Master Zone," and during your MP1 you may pay half of your lifepoints to add the Deck Master to you Deck, Hand or GY. If the Deck Master would leave the field or GY you may instead choose to return it to the Deck Master Zone instead at no cost.
At the start of the game you use the London Mulligan rule while drawing your starting hand.
We have a limit one 60 cards deck and the game is now 10 times more sacky because how yugioh work is every single card CAN and will turn into combo.
With all handtraps limited to one as well now drawing them is also harder at 60 cards.
Tiny Leaders mentioned! Friendly reminder that the format is actually still played! (under Tiny Leaders Reborn)
We love our tiny leaders reborn
We actually did a Heart of the Underdog tournament last year and it went pretty well.
We talked a few times where we want to draw the line and banned every meta deck (at the time Traptrix and stronger), some strong staples and generic boss monster. In the end the decks that topped were Orcust, Dragonmaid and Marincess.
We will most likely do it again next year and one day I would like to try an even weaker format, "Pride of the Weak" as I would call it.
There are so many fun modern decks that just can't do anything against any decent (not even meta) deck from the last 5 years and it's a shame to not have a place for them to be played.
i've played both ygo and mtg, and I remember milling about how to translate one format to another, and i had this idea to mimic Brawl format, its like commander but smaller. so here are the fundamentals that i was able to think through:
YGO should be an additive format to the existing game but gives a some restrictions to the additions not to existing rules.
1. your commander = boss monster - this gets a new zone next to the field spell zone.
Things to consider, what restrictions are need to select a commander, in my mind there are a few: must have a level that would need 2 monsters to tribute summon it, if it can be alternatively summoned like fusion..etc treat its Boss monster zone as if it is the extra deck or respective zone it needs to be in to be summoned, add a summoning tax: my thought here is to use a hand mechanic, so when it is destroyed it gets a counter and to summon it again you must banish a card equal to the number of counters with a max of 5 and then draw that many cards. Pretty simple restrictions that could add a very creative addition to the game imo.
2. Deck building - Magic uses the commander attributes to dictate the kind of cards you can use in the deck, but that kind of does not mesh well with YGO mechanics, So lets do it backwards:
your deck will get the following restrictions, deck size must be 60, extra deck can be up to 14(boss monster zone counts as slot 15), and any monster card that matches the majority archetype of your deck can be your Boss monster(as well as the restriction set in rule 1), all cards are extended to 4 instead of 3 unless they are on the banned and restricted list. your boss monster is a 1 of and no others can be in your deck.
3. Life points and win conditions - all the typically ways but things are a bit different to make the games longer and more satisfying, move from 8000 to 10000 and from a 1on1 game to a 4 player count. and add a boss monster damage counter if your boss monster has dealt 10000 direct damage from battle you win the game and all other players lose.
Jamin finding out what Konami has done to the game in real time and having the ideas not stick was funny and a little sad at the same time. Wish Yugioh gets what magic has eventually. Great discussion and content!
What he's being told is basically "well this alternative format exists but we refuse to play it till Konami says it's a format." Which is exactly the opposite of what he's saying which is "play the format and make it popular and eventually Konami will acknowledge it and support it"
Out of the dozens of card shops I've played at (and worked for) that run YGO tournaments in the last 20 years.... 2 of them have fully supported alternate formats. The card shops simply don't have any desire to support YGO in general; even if most of their customers are playing.
I worked as the "YGO" guy at a store once, and was able to get around 100 players concurrently every month because I supported alternate formats. But the moment the store was able to get FNM going, the owners lost all interest in YGO and as a result, lost 90% of our YGO players.
So that is incorrect 15:40. It is just type/attribute/archetype/specific cards listed anywhere on the cards as simple as that!
Singles format sounds very fun. Just play a old archtype and play all the fun nieche support cards (+flavor cards if your archtype doesnt have much cards).
The main issue with domain is that a lot of archetypes are built around 3 copies per deck in a 40 card deck, so when you go to singleton, you only have like 15 main deck cards in archetype in a format where the deck size is 60 unless your archetype has been around for a long time and has had tons of support (HERO)
It's kind of funny that there seems to be no common Yu-Gi-Oh Commander format considering one of the inspirations for Commander were the deck masters from the Yu-Gi-Oh anime.
Regarding custom ban lists: Our local Digimon community does this regularly. Every time a new main set comes out (currently ~every 6-8 weeks) we play "Non-Meta Locals". Someone from our community curates a ban list with suggestions from everyone else. Everyone can then voluntarily adhere to the ban list and we have extra prizes for the people who play non-meta.
Player turnout has never suffered in those weeks and usually everyone also has a deck adhering to the ban list.
You guys should do a series of videos just explaining different alternate formats each week. I've only heard of some of the ones mentioned in this video and a full explanation of domain might get me into it.
I got a whole video on it!
Yu-Gi-Oh Deck Master format: (tldr: select deck master monster, signature spell, and personal trap, 1 of every card 60 deck size)
1. Select a monster to be your deck master. Other monsters in your deck may only be summoned in the same way as the deck master (tribute, ritual, fusion, xyz, pendulum, special). The deck master starts the duel on the field in the master zone. Monsters in the master zone cannot be targeted or affected by any cards, nor can they attack or be attacked, though they do count for card effects like having a dark type monster on the field.
1a. Once per turn a player may activate their deck master ability. (Abilities are either the monsters effects [e g. if this monster destroys a card in battle... -> target monster gains this effect until next turn]), perhaps modified for a DM format, or a generic effect based upon element/attribute for monsters with no effect).
1b. A player may summon their deck master to a monster zone at any time with all their remaining LP transferred to the deck masters attack or defense. The player is now unable to be attacked directly, and loses the game if the deck master leaves the field under any condition except reverse summoning.
1c. A player may reverse summon their deckmaster during their main phase, with the same cost it took to bring out the deck master. Their LP are returned, however, if their deck masters attack or defense was lowered then only a proportional amount of LP are returned.
2. Select a signature spell. This card is added to your starting hand. If this card is in the graveyard, you may pay 2000LP (4000LP if banished) to add it to your hand.
2a. If you summon this card to your hand, you may not play any other spells besides your signature spell for the rest of your turn.
2b. This card may be banished from anywhere to pay the costs of a card effect or summon. If you do, you may not play any more spells until the end of your turn.
3. Select a personal trap. This card starts the duel face down in a spell/trap zone.
3a. You may tribute one monster, discard a card, or pay 2000LP to summon this card to the field and it may be activated immediately.
Domain please! Deckmaster please!
Back when I played yugioh, I tried to get my LCS to do a yugioh pauper tournament and they told me "if you can get 7 other people at minimum to agree to show up, we can hold one on XYZ day." So I spent the next week and a half trying to get people to play and I managed to convince 2 people to show up.
I would like to see domain format video pretty please.
We need progression series to be given a spotlight. Those are top tier.
I'd like to see a cover of domain format. I've been looking into it myself, made a list too, but haven't had the chance to try it. I too feel like Yu-Gi-Oh needs an alternative mode that is a) not just a time capsule of an old format and b) a completely separate game with each own cards(speed duels/ rush). I want to use the cards I already have and collected to play in different ways.
Please, play Domain format. It's not that hard to build your decks. If you just want to have fun, you can simply put all cards from your archetype and play it without any worries (and it will feel like an anime episode). But you can also really try hard and build a very synergistic deck. It's fun whether you want to play very casually or competitively. Please give it a try.
You don't need extra formats to be a good card game. You just need to be a good card game. L5R was a good card game. I am still sad they decided to just end it.
Do domain
The only kind of YuGiOh I could get back in was speed dual. Sad it didn’t gain more traction
Rush Duel is basically just speed duel but as an alternative card game designed completely around it. Id recomend trying it if you like speed duels.
I would love to see a domain video, a bigger channel like is the kind of exposure the game needs to take off
Make a video on Common Charity, Edison or any of the other formats! You have the visibility and power to bring new people to those formats rather than just complain.
My best shot: No searching, no sideboard, no alt win conditions, and all cards have all names (so your basic vanilla mirror force is also an elemental hero, lightsworn, dark magician, harpy lady, etc).
I think the best you can do is randomized rules. Ex: only two enngine decks or two archetype decks. No handtraps. Monsters can't attack the turn they are summoned. All traps can be played as though they were normal spells. Each week a tournament is played with a new restriction or rule.
Magic player! I've played Standard, Pioneer, Sealed, Commander, Two-Headed Giant Sealed, Two-Headed Giant Pioneer, (all more or less official) and then Horde, Tiny Leaders, Oathbreaker, and Oathbreaker Horde.
Always wanted to try Emperor but never found a group to do it.
because of master duel i actually enjoyed D/D/D in the singleton format so much i actually climbed ladder with the deck i built, it was hard, but surprisingly it wasn't too different from playing the deck as normal and at least got to gold.
I did not have the mental fortitude to get out of gold when flooandreeze and dinomorphia got added tho.
The comments are wild. Ygo is hard to learn, hard to play and hard to stand by. Saw one comment about a nice casual commander deck "only" costing 200 or less. Casual ygo decks (or decks that are almost meta) maybe cost 100 max. The only problem i see when playing ygo is not understanding powerlevels. While in magic you have to had played like 3 or 4 rounds to really see a difference in power, ygo immediatly tells you if your deck is either too strong or too weak. If you and your friendgroup can balance your decks around each others youll be having fun
What makes yugioh's problems so hard to solve is that the fundamental rules are not the issue in terms of variance, but the way cards are designed. There is the hyper-insular archetype-based design problem, but there's more than that. Reliance on resources of almost certain consistency (extra deck, deck fetching), a lack of accounting for the resourceless nature of yugioh, excessive protections, konami's idea of balancing being throwing in a couple of direct counter cards or things that just overwhelm the opponent even faster to prevent whatever was making the problem, etc... It all contributes to making the game run in an extremely oppressive manner that gives players - especially those who don't derive their fun from deck optimization at the expense of everything else - little to no breathing room. It's not just that some cards only work with other specific cards, but also that a lot of cards are practically must include for a given deck strategy just on account of being the only things efficient enough to not make you lose for certain.
Speaking as someone that's judged games at most levels (from casual LGS games all the way up to being a L2 at a YCS), there's one aspect that really wasn't mentioned. The players.
I've seen stores try to do Common Charity, Edison, Deck Master/Domain, etc. tournaments and nobody cares. Nobody shows up. Even when you throw in a cash prize and invest in getting the word out, they shrug it off only to then come around during the weekly tourney for Advanced. I know "pet decks" were mentioned but I feel that's different. If it was just an insistence on their pet deck, Dark Magician and Blue-Eyes decks would constantly be competitively viable because tournament attendance would fall off otherwise. Archetypes like Sky Strikers, Harpies, and Trickstars would be treated similarly... for obvious reasons.
Some of it might be ignorance, sure, but plenty of it is just the players going, "Typical Yugiboomer" and feeling apathy because they don't see a problem... or they complain about the problems but don't want to step outside of their comfort zone to do anything different (and let's be honest, ALL OF US know a few of those types). Some people might not way to say it, or don't particularly like it, but the community themselves are one of the biggest problems keeping Yu-Gi-Oh from finding the kind of success it used to have. Konami shoulders plenty of blame, without question, but they aren't solely to blame either.
As someone who plays alternative formats, I sole heartely agree.
It's way too common for me to mention an alt format to someone and they go "but, idk" then find the smallest excuse to back off, "oh, X card is banned, this format is broken/bad", without giving it muxh thought. (Like if advanced is not broken enough).
most yugioh players don't like building decks, a new format means having to figure out what decks are viable and get the cards to build them and people usually just wait for someone else to tell them what to play in a format
Pauper/Common Charity doesn't work for Yugioh because outside of exactly Lunalight virtually every deck is crippled by missing core cards never printed in common. Hero is almost functional in the format too but they're missing like 3 cards in a common printing to be consistent
Our local underdog is great ngl, we do a banlist based on discussion with vetos by the organizer, and it basically ygo 2 metas behind, and most floodgates banned.
Speed Duel struck me as Yugioh Commander when I learned of it, as a Magic player.
Please play Domain Format on the channel! It's my favorite way to play Yugioh, and we could really use more publicity on it. You can look up Yugioh Commander's video on the rules and turn some decks that you guys have into domain format decks. 4 player duels have so many potential outcomes, and they can be a ton of fun, so i think it'd be great for a video!
Thanks for the mention!! 🫡
Yes PLEASE play domain. The format NEEDS more mainstream exposure and it is incredibly fun to play.
The difficulty of making a healthy format is that it can't incorporate everyone. Changing or limiting things will naturally block people out of playing what they want. And with how much deck building variety is possible, to limit it naturally excludes people, even if the result is still enjoyable. So that hurdle alone, to say "You can't play your deck or a deck like it because the rules either disallow or strongly disincentivize it" (For example, a format where you start at 1 life point would not lend itself to midrange creature combat), that's gonna push people back to the format where you can play anything, even if said format isn't the most enjoyable place to play it.
So if I were to design a Yu-Gi-Oh "commander" format there are a few things I would say.
First your commander must be a normal summonable monster. This allows the tax to work within the Yu-Gi-Oh rules.
For deck building restrictions:
-Singleton
-80 cards (could do 100 but the way Yu-Gi-Oh is built might not work as well)
-Extra Deck limited to 10 cards (might even go down to 5) the idea being that you shift the focus away from the extra deck and into the main deck
-Monsters in your deck and extra deck must share a type, attribute, or archetype name. (So if you did a dark magician deck you could include magician of faith and dmoc, but not buster blader or ash blossom)
That's as far as I can take it having not played Yu-Gi-Oh in 10+ years.
You probably also don't want to use the official banlist, you probably want to do something more tailored to the format.
I hate how the game is reduced to just archetypes essentially. That's what ruined it for me. Building decks isn't that fun anymore because you can't really build unique or original decks very easily anymore.
Yeah it is weird how Yugioh really has no other way to play at scale or for fun
OMG I switched to magic a few years ago after I didnt play yugioh (mostly because of changing friend groups from school to university) 11:00 I understood that Gladiator reference. :D I stopped playing arround the time the first XYZ came out. I still have my morphtronic, gladiator beast, blackwing, spelldamage trap controle deck(yeah unplayable today but it was super fun back than, no wonder I landed as a blue main player in magic) and toon deck. Sadly I think about selling them because I honestly dont like how the game is played today and neither have I friends who play it.
Also speed duel sounds like the closest yugioh has to commander. YOu dont have a card but a allways (once) available ability. That being said speed duel sounds like the duel thing with bikes that the 5ds anime had.
That's a great idea! Just get rid of the restrictions of Yu-Gi-Oh cards and it would probably create the most fun format ever. You know what, just delete the phrase on Branded Fusion, that locks you into fusions, and problem solved. Imagine that. With Branded Fusion you can send any light or dark monster or any BBW (beast, beast-warrior or winged beast) to the graveyard and more. Imagine what one could do, if you could combine Branded with everything!
There's also Rush Duel... in Japan
Considering how many alternative formats happen in the anime (and especially the video games), I am very surprised none of them have caught on for yugioh, even if only in very niche communities. Like, there was an entire season that was basically EDH format, i feel like that would synnergize so well with how archetypal yugioh is now!
nice! more mtg x ygo!
knowing both magic and yugioh, yeah, the format thing really is a huge difference between yugioh and mtg. magic has all these different ways to play the same cards, and it's all very fun, while in yugioh there's only really one way to play, with the cards themselves acting as restrictions on how they could be played, making other formats difficult to create and play with the same amount of fun as the main format is.
5:01
this mention of Commander as a community format hits different now, just 2 weeks after the vid dropped...
Hey we have Common Charity! Common Charity rocks! The decks are balanced, the format is pretty balanced, and there's a lot of cool counterplay!
No matter what the new format should be, it is important that you can play the decks sensibly against someone who doesn't know the format and doesn't have a suitable deck.
As someone who has run and been in early for a lot of alt formats like you describe, the issue is that because of HOW modern cards are designed, any format without widespread sweeping changes to the rules will look functionally the same as advanced format. The best deck is the best deck, if it wasnt konami couldnt sell packs
Please do video on Domain. That's sounds really interesting and could be fun to play. New formats won't ever be successful unless we as a community are willing to actually give them a chance and inform others about them.
meanwhile over here in magic world, we made a format where we just draw on our cards to make them say whatever we want, and it's hilarious and i love it
Drafting is possible in Yugioh, but Konami would have to collate sets and design their set releases to accommodate this
Konami would never do this and whales would hate this but I think they should just bite the bullet. Release a core set that is huge and entirely reprints and then start a new rotation with only that core set legal. Going forward, design new sets with a 2 year rotation in mind and lean into attributes rather than archetypes for card synergies. When designing cards, treat the 6 attributes as the only 6 archetypes each of which has strengths and weakness, like color pie theory in magic.
Set rotation would kill the game. Everyone who has invested money into staples gets jipped, people who only play their pet decks all leave, and Yugioh loses many of its defining qualities that make it unique and enjoyable. I feel like whenever people try to “fix” Yugioh they always just try to turn it into a shitty version of Magic when that isn’t the solution.
I'd argue Master Duels festivals fill a similar niche to alternative formats for a casual audience in YGO.
There were also also several alt formats like rush duel, duel links (it's bigger than hearthstone!) and duel terminal.
There are attempts at mapping Yu-Gi-Oh onto a commander template. This works fine in practice. Thing is, both Yu-Gi-Oh and Commander are infamous for complicated board states, and putting those two things together makes the whole thing complex as hell.
A really broken but potential format would be Dual Type, each deck focuses on 2 archetypes and each monster within those archetypes count as both archetypes. So for instance, all of my rescue-ace monsters are also Salamangreat monsters, and all of my Salamangreat monsters are also Recue-ace monsters
Man I would love to see Jamin or other Magic players playing Edison. I think they would like the speed and broadness of the format.
you should try domain format!!!!! it's super cool and worth learning the deckbuilding rules
When i click on the thumbnail i thought this vidéo was about a problem "how i win in this situation" like chess puzzle.
I thought the discussion about format is just a introduction before puzzle
Ultimately i stay for a such interisting (and long) introduction ^^
I've solved it.
Ygo players hate Floodgates, but only when your opponent plays them. How about a 'Floodgate' format: grab 10 of the most hated (or beloved) floodgates printed, and 2 or 3 of them start randomly in play, but not owned by either player.
They can be interacted with like usual spells/traps. And will add another mini game about waiting to get rid of a piece that stops your deck, bc it may unlock the opponents cards.
Masterduel did an event like that, a format where both players always started with skill drain in hand. It was interesting but it devolved into people just playing true draco and eldlich.
Building on this, how about a cooperative game: one player takes the role of the villain and plays one of the decks everyone hates, everyone else cooperates to beat that player but has to play a deck that isn't unpopular.
I'd actually be interested in seeing a Domain format Game
Sooo... How about making all archetypes one. Lets make a rule that each time card mentions archetype like blue eyes, red eyes or whatever it can use any card that belongs to any archetype. Sounds crazy chaos. But might be fun?
domain video please
What hurt Speed Duel the most was that in order to play your card, you need a Speed Duel printing of said card. Common Charity has the same problem. You need to play the common printing of the card.
No one wants yo have to buy new copies of cards they already have.
Magic doesn't do this. I can play my 9th edition Forests in Standard, my Revised Lightning Bolts in Modern, and my Uncommon Goblin Grenades in Pauper.
Commander style but you get to pick one creature type and any creatures you put in your deck become that type, and maybe also their abilities get altered to affect that type. Like a dude who pulls a dragon type from your graveyard will instead pull whatever your chosen type is. Maybe both together would be too much lol