Player Who BROKE Magic Rates Yu-Gi-Oh Cards!
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- Опубликовано: 24 янв 2023
- Frank Karsten, a Magic: The Gathering "Hall of Famer", has never seen a Yu-Gi-Oh! card. IN. HIS. LIFE! Can he figure out whether or not these cards are great or garbage? Find out in this Staple or Stinker!
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I love how he immidiatly started to analyse terraforming after just 2-3 simple questions about yugioh in general like hand size and deck count! Then he mentioned consistency and the no-cost part of terraforming and i loved it! Haha He knows every aspect of card games haha
It was the first Yugioh card he’s ever seen. He would’ve said anything was good because there’s no cost. I guess it’s fine to start with a freeby but also would’ve been interesting to show him a bad card with no cost to highlight the difference between the games. A card being unimpactful is greater downside than it is in Magic. All he learned here is field spells are good which he had to be told because it couldn’t be reasonably inferred
@@pilarius3973hmm a card with no immediate impact in mtg is unplayable too
@@akorthouwer trueee, anyone who plays a 2 cost or higher is just throwing
I mean, it's basically seek from slay the spire and that's one of the most consistently powerful cards in the game. It doesn't matter what your deck is doing "choose a card from your deck to put in your hand, this card is free" is an insanely powerful effect even if you were to put restrictions on what you can get.
Think of it this way: a card that draws one card is insanely powerful (since now you've basically just made your deck smaller) this lets some decks do that but, specifically draw their combo pieces. That's crazy good.
@@akorthouwer Demonic Tutor?
He did amazing, clearly knows card games well
only has a Ph.D in them essentially (technically its cooperative game theory and stochastic operations research but that's just cardgames)
Yeah it's amazing when people who've never seen a yugioh card know the game better than I do
Never doubt the most sited man in magic deck building.
no
@@s1mperadicator13um....
This guy is peak TCG player. He's clearly VERY knowledgeable, and he sounds really friendly and chill. Seems like he'd be sick to be mates with.
This guy revolutionized the game when he was at his peak. He also basically invented "fail to find," which is a rule that says that, if there's a conditional restriction around a type of card you must find with a card's effect, you can instead not find it. For example, a card may require that you find an "instant card," but you don't have to if you don't want.
His moment was failing to find 6 cards with different names, which won him the tournament.
That is wild!
true hall of famer cant believe i actually met the dude and shook hands
@@markholzderber4384WOW
@@WMDistractionthank you for telling the ygo lot about the gifts than keep being ungiven!
The fact that he was able to analyze so well and understand that Red Reboot was an insane side deck card had me shocked and impressed. It was pretty much a trick question because the card is definitely not a stinker, but it's also not a staple, so to be able to figure that one out was so impressive. Frank would be better at Yugioh than 50% of the current playerbase, just by playing for a week or so.
FWIW I played the yugioh game on the PSP over a decade ago and have no other knowledge of Yugioh, while having played Magic at tournaments to a decentish degree and was able to come to the same conclusion based on the same information. He's a smart guy and his analysis is beyond mine but most any tournament Magic player could do this.
Staple or Stinker is always a fun series, no matter which way it's going...
This was fun for me to play along with, as a Magic player who hasn’t played Yugioh since Millennium Pegasus was the big bad in the anime, I had very limited knowledge and found myself falling for the same trick question that is Cost Down.
As long as it's going poorly
Frank's assessment at the end is super spot on, that Yugioh is a game about breaking its own rules and good cards are mostly determined by how far they can bend those rules in a relevant way towards your win con. Would love to have him back for more S/S content. Also his first attempt to pronounce "Maryokutai" is probably better than even the yugiboomers who played with the card on their respective school playgrounds
I mean isn’t that what every card effect does?
If you just “follow the rules” all a player can do is “normal summon/set 1 monster per turn” and “set/activate backrow”
Every card effect effectively breaks the rules by doing something else, like “drawing a card outside the draw phase” or “destroy a monster”
@@frankwest5388 Well, yes? I mean basically all card game do that except yugioh feels like it's emphasized even more with the lack of keyword effects, allowing card effects to be more creative at overriding game mechanics.
Tbh way back last warrior was bussin since zombyra is a cartoon character from season 0 and is therefore a warrior type and can be searched. Joey Wheeler plays it in the battle city arc, so subbing out maryoktai which tributes itself to negate a spell is really good. CC protect the castle early yugioh game play. Also... metamorphosis exists. LMAFO
Yugizoomer: Tries to pronounce cards accurately
Yugiboomer: Makes up a pronunciation on the spot and delivers it with confidence, doing an impression from the 4kids dub
Super Maryo, Kutai! Woohoo!
This dude really knew his shit. Amazing logic with zero knowledge of the game
He for sure did better than the dumb guys at my locals, who've played Yugioh for ages but have the reading comprehension of a 3 yr old. This dude is also very smart
@@HuguitoBonito you know Yu-Gi-Oh players can't read. It's a meme for a reason
@@randomcatname7792 I mean the text is so small, some might just need glasses 😂
@@binchamers I was trying to teach my friend Yugioh, this was is issue he actually couldn't see the card text.
Karston is an absolute legend in the MTG community, he’s done an insane amount of mathematical analysis on optimal deck construction and other things. Very smart guy.
"Games last 3 turns"
Frank: Red reboot is broken in the side deck, not the main deck.
Absolute legend.
Dude nailed it. Love seeing that
After having ZERO Knowledge of the game. That’s actually insane.
@@ppo190 Basic concepts like if a card is too situational or if a card seemingly costs too many resources is a principle anyone can kind of intuitively pick up on, regardless of the card game. Magic is just as much a game of managing resources and having consistency as yugioh, even if they go about that differently. Like, for example. A notorious card in Magic: Gitaxian Probe. The card reads
Pay with either {U} or 2 life.
Look at target player's hand.
Draw a card.
Do you think a card that only costs life to churn through your deck and look at your opponent's hand would be good? Yeah. Yeah, it would. Because life in magic is as expendable as LP is in Yugioh. Little things like that you can build off of in your mind to kind of guess a lot of good cards. If the cost is nothing or if it seems like too much for too little cost, you can "feel" your way around things. Or, another card everyone knows and loves: Black Lotus. Do you think a card that can go in any deck that allows you to cheat out shit 3 turns ahead would be good? Pffft. Yeah. Yeah it would.
Yea its ridiculous to give such a confidant assessment too.
@@Trivedi_Tuesdays How so?
I love how Red Reboot could be seen as YuGiOh's Mental Misstep, where it becomes a battle of Who has more Red Reboots in hand lol
I had to cut a whole segment where we talked about this exact interaction! For a Yu-Gi-Oh channel, we sure reference "Mental Misstep" QUITE a lot.
- Adam
Ever heard of deny in lor XD
I like this series, but the "staple or stinker" label itself is a bit unfortunate. We got a "stinker" rating on a card that was literally banned for being too frustrating to play against.
Cards of Demise is interesting, it's definitely a staple but I think the downsides are a bit downplayed here, the restrictions absolutely make it unplayable in most decks, although of course it's really powerful in decks that can play under them.
but it IS a stinker. Last warrior is pretty much a gimmick piece with the cyber stein combo and in almost no other ways is easy to bring out. The combo could have been fixed by just banning cyber stein, but the card alone isn't bad, just the degenerate method of bringing it out
@@ZeromusNightmare122 the card labeled stinker that is banned is red reboot, even though the discussion regarding it from the host was much more nuanced
Yea I definitely wouldn't call Red reboot bad. To me its just meta dependent. If there's problem traps, its a godsend. If there's not, its cut.
yeah, the labels are really unfortunate. Espectially in Yu-Gi-Oh since we have no rotation, there are always ancient cards coming up as problems, like buster whelp or barrier statues. whilst not staples, both of them were cards that were "stinkers" for ages until there was 1 deck and they ended up being a problem. Too much of those lables depend on the meta and the deck released. Which he kinda hinted at when he said that one day a deck will find a way to break "Last warrior of anothe Planet". Reboot is the end for every control deck, whereas demise could be fine to come back bc literally only True Draco and some other underpowered decks can use it. Floo doesnt empty their hand really, and no other deck can play with no SS in any meta since eternal (when TD was playable the last time). Whilst calling red reboot a "stinker" is more correct than "staple", it is banned for a reason.
@@hannessteffenhagen61 have you read card of demise
Glad to see Frank did well. The man has a knack to break down the math of card advantage vs board impact so well it was fascinating to hear his thought process and how very specific the questions for context he made were
Makes me wish there was a series discussing deckbuilding and the evolution of players thinking about card advantage vs board impact in various card games.
Yeah, I was mostly expecting him to guess Cost Down correctly. I thought Last Warrior might've been the card to trip him up.
@@zanpakutoman4225 Cost Down I kinda get because Magic does not have a good equivalent to normal/special summoning distinctions.
@Andres Arancio: Karsten can calculate the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergeometric_distribution in his head, and has a Ph.D in mathematics, so yeah, he's good on math.
I really enjoy this series, but especially from how Frank reacted to the life points, I’d love videos where players of one game get to see high-level gameplay of another they’re unfamiliar with. For example I’d love to see a Magic player watch a typical turn one YGO line, and the response. Or have a Yugioh player try Pokémon and, I imagine, possibly lose it as they realize all the generic drawing and selection in that game.
I realize that’s going to be harder to budget and shoot so it probably would be a lot more one-off, but I’d love to see it!
His reaction was so genuine, it was great!
- Adam
Not impossible with Ygo simulator but for others I don't sure
Give a yugioh player a KCI hand and give a magic player a 2016 synchro fusionist or danger ftk hand and whichever kills their hypothetical opponent faster wins the game.
Man as a lifelong Magic player, I tried Pokemon a couple months ago and had my mind blown. The game plays like vintage power level magic but the whole deck costs like 50 cents.
I’m dumbfounded how spot on he was about Red Reboot.
He was even more accurate than the actual explanation. Impressive
Oh, finding good sideboard cards in magic is a skill in and of itself. There's lots of situations where you go "I would never maindeck this card, but against [insert archetype here], this card is insane, therefore sideboard material.
Watching you try to explain Fusion Summoning to Frank was so funny. Us Yugioh players that are deep in it are so used to how various game mechanics function but explaining it from 0 makes you realize how actually complicated Yugioh can be.
Explaining fusions is exceedingly easy, I don't get the issue.
"Fusions are like the Meld mechanic but instead of waiting till end phase, you must trigger it with a spell."
Bam, done. 👐
@@iBloodxHunter now explain the Meld mechanic without referencing another ability
@@TheSeptet two monsters have each other's names in their text as prerequisites for the meld ability. The timing will be written down next to the names and at a certain point in the turn they will trigger if they're both on the field. When it does and all specified cards are on your side of the field the cards will be sent to exile and immediately return as a new jumbo sized card, that's made up of the other two flipped over.
@@iBloodxHunter They don't need to be on the field to be used as materials for a fusion and you didn't referred the used of a third card (fusion spell) to summon the fusion. What you described was a link summon with specific name requirements. 😂😂😂
@@pedromoreira2875 I described "Meld" twit.
Also contact fusion functions as described.
Fun fact: the original art for Card of Demise is the man reaching through the guillotine for his deck, giving the idea that you are risking your literal hand to greedily try and reach for more cards.
This series is probably my favourite version of this kind of game. For suggestions for stinker cards to use, I'd suggest Obelisk and Slifer. Both are easy to explain since they don't belong to an archetype/summoning mechanic, and without context they can look like very powerful boss monsters.
Im pretty the eqytian gods do meet the requirements to be an archetype, dont know if they have a teap card or not
@@charlescourtwright2229 Technically each of the Egyptian Gods can qualify as their own separate archetypes, but they don't have a unifying aspect to them outside of card lore that puts them all in the same archetype.
@@BlueSparxLPs type no ? Not a lot of divine monsters
@@Emile0478 The Divine-Beast type is unique to them, but archetypes aren't defined by that because cards of different archetypes share monster type.
Generally with an archetype you're looking for a naming convention. If they were all called something like, "Egyptian God Slifer," "Egyptian God Ra," and "Egyptian God Obelisk," they'd qualify as an archetype called "Egyptian God." The other way would be to have text that says "(This card is always treated as an 'Egyptian God' card.)"
Because of this (and their effects having no synergy with each other) it's not intuitive to run all 3 in one deck, and decks that are made typically just focus on 1 of the 3. I think it would be great to have a deck that effectively uses them all though.
@@BlueSparxLPs i think they were talking about attribute, there could theoretically be support that refers to divine monsters and it would work
also, theres technically already one card that benefits from having all three of the gods (holactie), but its only in the OCG and its pretty abysmal to actually use
*** RED REBOOT is of course a STAPLE. We had a small mix up with the graphic there!
The cards Frank had to rate are found here. They vary in rarity, but the Ultimate Rare Terraforming is my favourite:
bit.ly/3GXBb2h
Invite him again but next ask about exodia, dark ruler no more, dark bribe, baronne de fleur, cosmic blazar dragon (with baronne first to bait a staple then we get him with stinker)
I can absolutely see how this guy is an expert. He analyzed the first two cards (that’s all I’ve seen so far) extraordinarily accurately and he even knew the questions to ask to get the information he needed without being prompted or provided the information. Even when he’s not exactly correct it’s super easy to see how he got there.
My favorite thing in these is when they go "this is what we in [GAME] call a..." and then proceed to say something the other person understands
Yugioh player: "When you make an opponent discard cards off the top of their deck, we call that 'milling'."
Magic player: "Huh, fancy that."
You can explain most differences pretty easily when you know the terminology of both games. Like rather than explaining chain links you can just say "you can't add anything to the stack once it is resolving" and probably the difference in how priority is passed and then a magic player knows exactly what you mean
The "15 slot Commander Zone" is a really smart way to bridge the difference for Extra Deck to a MTG player.
With this video you understand that even that Yugioh and Magic are extremely different games the fundamentals apply almost the same, also it helps that Frank is cracked at Magic and will find the small details that regular player will never think about.
I would disagree. YGO is hyper aggressive, almost any deck can OTK now adays.
@@HarveyDangerLurker hyper aggressive yes but the basic fundamentals like card advantage,board states or deck consistency are still the same,
It started as a knockoff mtg in the manga. Someof the monster designs are vased ok mtg and dnd designs
22:35 just wow
Up to this point his thinking process was impressive but this was the tipping point. Simply astonishing!
He knows barely anything about the game but analysed the card up to the point where he points out the biggest downside, that it is a build around card, that card draw is much, much more powerful in yugioh than in magic. WOWOWWOWOWOW
I want him back with an hour long episode INSANE!
Btw I will look at my collection for stinkers for sure
Have seen a dozen of these videos and he is the very first guest that actually instantly understands a card and considers the entire context very fun to watch
I really wish there was a third category aside from staple and stinker called "niche." For cards that have been good at certain points, or good in certain decks. Last warrior was a staple in goats, and it still sees play in tournaments in combination with cards like "waking the dragon." Certainly not a staple, but I wouldn't call it a stinker either. It's niche
Exactly...seeing "Red Reboot" labelled as "Stinker" is absurd. "Situationally Useful"/"Niche" and "Average" should both be categories.
@@HaydenXreboot is broken ❤ that card
I wish you had brought up Waking the Dragon in the section about Last Warrior. I'd love to see his reaction to that card.
I would’ve too. It’s basically half of the point of playing Last Warrior
Most people rather want to bring out Ultimate Falcon or Natura Exterio. Especially with Labrynth being the only deck rn that can run waking the dragon right now
He also forgot that Cyber-Stein technically is searchable using Gear Gigant X.
@@matthewchamberlain2953 Vaylantz Exterio turbo!
Holy crap this guy is so smart. I love that he identifies the effect is good by the sheer amount of restrictions on that effect. Love that he also identifies the difficulty of making a usage of a card consistent. Might be obvious to YGO players, but for a guy with 0 context, it's a very quick pick up on the nuances of the game.
Also in YGO, the hand itself IS the mana pool. They are the main costs, and if that was made clear, he would've also seen that Cost Down actually has a pretty massive cost for what little it does, though he got so little context on what levels even are. Cost down also flat out ruins a lot of what archetypes want to do, which is summon extra deck monsters
Yo that's actually a brilliant way of saying it! The hand *is, the mana pool. And it's exactly why Maxx C makes people scream in Agony.
...is it sort of our black lotus?
(IdontplaymagicIdonthavebetterexamplessorrysorry)
I have a vague understanding that you can make funny things happen when guys of particular levels are on the field together, I dunno the specifics, but I know, iirc, Synchro, Links, Pendulums, and Xyz cards will do things with levels.
At first, Cost Down seems like it might be good for getting cards to swing for different extra deck guys, since it says the effect remains a bit, but, I imagine most decks are probably mostly using exactly the levels they want, and the best that could probably do is open up use cases for weird support cards.
But then those are relying on you finding this card, and also having something that wants to be discarded at the same time.
I feel it, my brain wants to see something there.
@@OhitsONnow
I think Pot of Greed is the Black Lotus.
Costs nothing, generates more resources than you should have.
Actually pot of greed is probably better, because it's "mana" AND deck thinning, since it gets itself out of the way, too.
A card I'm curious about, I remember it back in the olden days. Ultimate Offering.
Iirc it was like, pay 500 life points for an extra normal summon.
Since the normal summon is the one throttle yugioh seems to have natively, and most decks are built to spit out monsters by bypassing it, and I understand 500 lifepoints is basically nothing, I have to imagine that it's good.
I've never heard of it being talked about, though. So either it's not good, or is super banned but not as well known.
Because on the nose, that actually sounds like it might be a good approximation to Black Lotus.
No cost, but the real cost is you actually need to have cards in hand besides it to use it
And I guess it's a trap so...
Imagine if Ultimate Offering were a spell?
Unless Ultimate Offering is actually bad, I guess.
I love that he has the MTG Mentality with the "Oh , but maybe you could build your deck around it" because i think about that a Lot.
There's always room for potential and creativeness when building your deck with niche cards.
I think the card selection for this series is also getting better. Hitting the right balance of text needed to make it interesting without frustrating the guest.
Thanks for properly fully explaining the basic rules.
I hate it when these videos just have people staring at cards like "okay so i GUESS that means this maybe", and the other person just looks at them quietly.
A really fun Stinker might be Treasure Panda. I mean, it let's you literally special summon as many normal monsters from your deck as you want :D
Could be broken if there were a bunch of spells that could reliably search it and we had Thassa's Oracle in this game.
You'd need to know links or Exodia exist to think of it as good...but on top of that you'd need to know ghost girls or Veiler exist to call it a stinker.
@@LilyKazami So true. My favorite exodia deck is a treasure panda + summoner monk synchro/link climb build. if only we had a rota for spellcasters, I'd effectively have 7 TPs
Frank Karsten is a legend. He is the final boss in MTG from my region. If I am doing really well on a prerelease I get to face off against him, and he will analyze decisions and deckbuilding with me after he destroys me.
That's a pro to you. Even with basic understanding he can breakdown each card pretty spot on, only fumble on a card that it's not well explained like last warrior.
What a great one. The fact that he not only got most of them right, but was right about the nuisances of what situations the cards are good in, like red reboot and card of demise left me very impressed. Especially with no prior knowledge of Yugioh. Would love to see more with him. As per usual another incredible video from you guys!
The Red Reboot one is especially impressive considering the host failed to mention the existence of Infinite Impermanance to take into consideration.
I feel that Cost Down was a set up, he intentionally left out the fact that you have unlimited Special Summons in yugioh and only mention Normal Summon which is pretty key information
I also feel that coming right off of Last Warrior, because he doesn't know how Extra Deck focused the game is rn, most high level main deck monsters are never really worth running unless their gimmick is centerred around it (Floo, True Draco, etc.)
Frank Karsten is a Magic gem. I'm glad the yugioh community appreciates him as well!
I love the history of Terraforming, because it used to be at 3 and underpowered because of the rules around Field Spells. It used to be only one Field Spell could be active on either side, and if your opponent played one, then you'd have to send yours to the Graveyard.
Well, I'd argue that it was more so underpowered because they hadn't printed good enough field spells yet
@@thepotato513 you had Necrovalley and that's about it
@@silent7159 and Geartown's floating effect
@@mj-100 you'd use Magical Hats for that
@@silent7159 More so meant it being one of the early 'decent' field spells alongside Necrovalley and what not.
I like this guy's way of thinking. Very analytic and quick to catch on to the small details.
This game almost needs another category or something. Sometimes a card is terrible in most decks, but ends up being broken in one specific deck. That doesn't make it a staple, but it does make it an amazing card.
We need some more magic pros and legends on here as it is fun to see them break down the crazy Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Or maybe have frank watch a game or even play a round to just see the craziness of the game.
Love this content can't wait for more.
There’s also Waking the Dragon (in addition to Cyber Stein) which is also really situational, but it is indeed more than 1
Also Cyber Stein is searchable through Gear Gigant X.
Or more easily through Road Warrior as seen in Master Duel with FTKs
The power of reading.
Is it possible to learn this power?
Not from a yugioh player
The analysis on both Red Reboot and Card of Demise was a work of art, good stuff!
I love to see this series, this is always fun to watch. This guy was especially smart with how he went about it, so it could be fun to see him analyze some more eclectic cards, such as more interesting extra deck monsters. Another idea - it could be very interesting to see what would happen if you gave two magic players the chance to build yugioh decks of their own (maybe through an online portal, maybe Master Duel, maybe physical, idk) and see what they end up building, and then how a duel (or set of duels) between them would go. Would let us see what archetypes jump out at them as strong, and what plays they find powerful. Would they end up playing playground yugioh where big beatsticks win all? Would they make competent archetypal decks, but fall for some noob traps of which ones are actually strong or what cards to include? Or would they manage to find some more meta options and show their skills?
I like how analytical he goes about this. he really thinks about differing aspects of game design
ur by far not the only show on youtube that does this format. but the fact ur doing it in person with real cards really adds to the expirience imo. keep it up!
I LOVE FRANK KARSTEN one of my favorite magic players of all time. I loved seeing his mind work a mile a minute evaluating cards. Awesome Content! Please more stuff with Frank!
HE DOESN'T LOVE YOU! AND WOULDN'T PISS ON YOU IF YOU WERE ON FIRE. STOP WITH THIS PITIFUL HERO WORSHIP.
@@altosforteaquax5083 clam down mate they just said they liked them that is not hero worship why do care anyway?
@@guywattie Sentence structure, grammar and punctuation, where are they!? You don't know! Because you're not using any of them.
Come back when you learn them.
He did amazing, the analysis of Terraforming and Red Reboot were great! But I wish you could've done more monsters than a 1-of target for Waking the Dragon; Considering how monster heavy YuGiOh is, it would've been great to see how his lines of thinking would translate to combo pieces, or individual bosses.
Monsters are a bit more difficult to assess I'd imagine as they tend to be deck specific these days. Spell and traps are a but more universal
@@TraaaaaasshBooooaaaattttI mean, throw in Maxx C, Ash, Belle, Veiler, Nib, any Bysstial, hand traps in general are pretty universal. Monsters like Barrier Statues or Treasure Panda, maybe even Royal Magical Library or a ton of extra deck monsters like appollousa, accesscode, avramax, IP Masq, Verte, Halq, something like Starving Venom or Dragostapelia or Mudragon, there’s a lot of monsters you could throw in. That gives both some stinkers that seem like staples and some staples that are kind of on the fence if you don’t know much about yugioh
@@TraaaaaasshBooooaaaatttt Agreed, unless it is like a monster hand trap or something.
@Grant Swallow whenever I see one of these videos I always want to see their reaction to Halq. If someone unfamiliar with the game could figure out how busted it is, I'd be really impressed
This dudes one of my favorite players and writers. Big Legacy Storm player. He has some of the best articles on game theory, and Storm deck building.
I really enjoy this series. As a long time yugioh player playing off and on since LOB, these players you invite give me new perspective on cards in yugioh. The guests have been chill, intelligent, and well-spoken. They make me realize how much of a scrub I am lol
Very glad you provided more context when he needed it to make a call on the value of a card. The nuances to ygo effects are easy to miss.
Actually I think your guest is onto something when he specified a side deck staple, maybe that can be an additional grade to balance out giving more info
I always like watching this series as a yugioh player, but sometimes it seems completely subjective about what gets chosen as a staple vs stinker. Red reboot was so powerful of a staple that it has been banned multiple times. It was absolutely a side deck staple. Card of demise sees similar levels of play to last warrior from another planet, each has a crazy powerful effect but requires a certain niche to really work (cyber stein can be searched btw)
Cyber stein is searchable by Small World, and you can also cheat out Last Warrior with Waking the Dragon
This video was a blast. He really showed how the grasp of fundamentals of a cardgame can get you far even if you don't really know the game itself.
I really wish to see how people like him would build a yugioh deck. No doubt it'd be fun as hell too
No wonder this guy is on the hall of fame, his analysis is crazy good
Frank's love of aggro and burn makes his decision for cost down pretty understandable lol
i love these so much. watching people use their highly specific area of expertise to analyze something similar but still unknown always makes me think there is nothing not worth learning about
I always love watching Staple or Stinker when MTG and YGO players are looking at each other's games. So much fun trying to watch their brains react to the weirdness they just encountered!
Frank had great chemistry with you as well as being great at judging the cards.
How about instead of single cards, let them judge whole archetypes 🤔 Like, let them know a basic idea of the deck, show the most important cards from it and let them judge if the deck is seeing any play. I think those could be tricky too.
Great video! I swear cardmarket is one of my favorite RUclips channels which I feel like would be hard to explain to a friend 😅. Please keep up the great stuff!!!
Another fun note about Last Warrior is that your opponent can still set monsters, as the standard is face down. Back in the DM Era, I had crafted a jank deck around Last Warrior combined with Light of Intervention, a card that prevents face down sets, meaning your opponent could not summon at all. The issue? Last Warrior still had no inherent protection against anything, meaning any kind of destruction card popped it. On top of that, the high requirement and cost (requiring 3 cards from hand or field out of a 40 card deck to get a single monster, with an additional card needed to pull the full combo off), as well as so many better decks at the time, even during early Yu-Gi-Oh!, meant this card was destined to be a stinker. I believe they even made a few more powerful retrains of this card as time went on that had some kind of protection (different archetype), but were still poor cards in the long run, leaving this card to only be a nostalgic one for the few older fans who played with or against it.
Incredible analysis by the honorary Magic player.
It's incredible to see how far fusions have come from ,,Last Warrior " who is unplayable unless you cheat it out to something like ,, Tearlaments Kitkalos" that can be summoned easily multiple times per a duel and can win you games by itself..
Last warrior may be shit in the grand scheme of things but in a well crafted lunatics combo deck it can be the opponents worst nightmare. I’ve seen combos making several floodgates and negates turn 1 that easily outplayed last warriors downsides. It was more degenerate imo then “the world” combo decks.
Last Warrior basically exists to be cheated out. It’s not meant to be used as a fusion monster. Fusions have been good for a long time though with Hero having been a serious contender back in the day, along with releases of decks like ABCs, Shaddolls, Ritual Beasts, Invoked, and Brilliant Fusion *cough* *cough* I mean Gem-Knights
@@pilarius3973 Do you call ABC and Ritual Beast a fusion based decks? How many fusion spell cards do they run?
Invoked is just Mekuba turbo, haven't seen a good Envoked field in my life, if anything abusing the mechanics is what made Shadoll/Hero playable. By having cards that send materials from deck for no cost and not the fusions themselves....
@@zeo4481 Yeah, I do consider them fusion decks. Contact fusing is a part of the game and a part of the fusion summoning mechanic. Invoked may not make very impressive boards but that’s why for a long time the best way to play them was as a going second strategy as a value engine alongside mech knights. Last Warrior is different from these other variations of the original fusion summon, because you don’t fusion summon him. He’s just a body to be cheated out. It’s the same as Raidraptor Ultimate Falcon. It doesn’t matter that it’s an xyz because for the most part it just gets cheated out. That makes Last Warrior a terrible card to analyze in a vacuum because it’s power level is completely dependent on how good the cards are that can cheat it out, the existence of which is not implied at all. The person trying to evaluate needs to be able to take some things at face value. The fusion mechanic is very prominent in this example because this is the only fusion he’s shown so it would stand to reason he is supposed to evaluate fusions in general to some extent off of this card.
Cyber Stein is actually a searchable card in some machine decks due to Gear Gigant X, tho you usualy prefer Naturia Exterio to summon instead of Last Warrior
That was fantastic.
Seeing a Yugioh novice being able to so accurately analyze the various cards was really fun to watch!
My headcanon deviation:
2:50: ""Frank, you're 1 for 1. Now: 'one for one'."
Knowing how powerful tutors in MTG are it's a safe guess to say Terraforming looks really strong
There's a fieldspell that can add an archetype card to your hand, while also protecting them on field while also recycling cards from your graveyard in the Endphase. All in one card. (Spyral Resort)
There's another fieldspell that basicly let's you draw 3 cards every turn if you're able to recycle 3 archetype cards from your GY to your deck. (Runick Fountain)
There's another fieldspell that can pop a card to search one while making it so your monsters can not be destroyed by battle once per turn and also gives them atk/Def. The card you pop to search in that archetype usually has a graveyard effect to destroy a card your opponent controls. (Dragonic Diagram)
Yes. Fieldspells in yugioh are very good.
Could you also get people from other card games into the format like Vanguard or Pokemon? It would be intresting to see how those players would look at our cards.
Frank Karsten, literal genius, wrote Magic the Gather articles that he thought explained certain things players we having trouble grasping. Articles require doctorate in Mathematics to begin to parse. Legend!
Cyber stein is not completely unsearchable, at least in master duel where Scrap Orcust is playable, if you can summon Scrap Recycler you can do a combo where Lib the World Key Blademaster ends up searching a revive spell and revives cyber stein from the graveyard. Also Vaylantz can search it using Gear Giant X and then normal summon it. Also is a level 2 so it has synergy with Spright. BTW, if you are wondering, the card to summon with cyber stein is Naturia Exterio.
Cost Down can technically get used in funky Pendulum combos, but it's still not the great
Really love this series, especially with guests like Frank who ask relevant questions and analyze. I'd like to see a third category, "stricken" or something like that for banned cards. It's difficult to find stinkers that look good, but not so difficult to find good cards that really look like they ought to have been banned. It might be a bit too dependent on meta knowledge to be fair, though.
Absolutely amazing episode and by far my favourite series on the channel, keep it up!
As for stinkers ideas here's a few:
Busted power cards for unplayable archetypes: Super koi koi, Catalyst field, Mischief of the time Goddess, W Nebula Meteor, SuperHeavy Samurai link 1, 5 star twillight.
Impossible to use cards with great payoffs: Sophia Goddess of Rebirth, A to Z Dragon Buster Cannon, Vennominaga, Tierra, Source of Destruction, tachyon transmigration.
Good but too much investment: Chaos Ancient Gear Giant, Lunalight Leo Dancer, Trishula Zero, Jormungandr.
Just meh: Kitchen Dragonmaid, Snowl, Golden Swordsoul, Moonlit Chill, Copycat, Meklord Astro.
Complete flops: God cards, Numeronious Numeronia, Ojama King, Dark Barrier statue, Gadget hauler, Ancient Gear, Phantom hand, Spooky Dogwood.
Borderline meme cards: Neko mane king, Flying elephant, Psi-Blocker, Any timelord, Transmission Gear.
I really appreciate that he is willing to get an understanding of the mechanics before he answers and applies his knowledge in the context of a different card game. I feel like a lot of other videos in this style have the MTG player see a Yugioh mechanic, go "Oh, well that's weird." and then make their guess based solely on it's playability in Magic.
Last Warrior was always a stinker because of the set ruling. Even if you could consistently get him out your opponent can just stall until they have an out for him
Frank is great. I hope you guys also did the show a yu-gi-oh player magic cards with Frank
Absolutely my favorite vid of this type I've seen, he did so well. Reasoned through everything perfectly and I don't fault him for getting cost down wrong, without seeing a yugioh combo in action you don't know just how much better special summoning is than tributing
I love this video concept! I would love to see him react to cards that were either super good in the past but are just useless now & cards that used to be forgotten but then new stuff came out & they got broken xD
Cost Down is one of those cards which is so bad that when someone sees it for the first time their brain will invent ways for it to be useful out of total disbelief that it exists in the same game as so many broken, costless cards.
I think the rational behind cost down comes from an era when yugioh relied on the need to sacrifice monsters to bring out bigger monsters to maintain a sort of mana curve. With the current abundance of special summoning options, infinite combos and one turn kills, it is utterly useless, but in an early version of the game where it played less like munchkin, and more like a real tcg, it was a perfectly sound way of jumping ahead of the mana curve.
A magic equivalent for cost down effect would be something like.. "You can discard a card instead of paying for this card's mana cost. Creatures with converted mana cost of 5 or more cost 2 less to play", but the format you are playing is vintage. (Think Eye of Ugin, but back when there are nothing that cost less than 8)
It'd be more like a 0 cost with 'As an additional cost to cast this spell, discard a card.'.
I always love hearing Frank's insight! His maths knowledge really shows!!
❤ That's an awesome assessment. I loved how he asked all the right questions. And if he knew about the only 1 normal summon per turn, I'm sure he'd be 5/5
I think it would be funny if you gave him some cards that no matter what banlist they were under couldn’t come back like painful choice or delinquent duo and get a reaction to them.
painful choice would have been cute because one thing he is famous for is breaking gifts ungiven, a magic card with an extremely similar effect, but he also would have gotten it instantly
Lol give him Pot of Greed
Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell is a card that will trip up a Magic player.
Great seeing Frank Karsten do one of these! Easy like from me haha
His articles are among my favorite to read
Card Of Sacrifice - Could have mentioned used in low monster count decks, as it allows you to get to useable S/T cards faster. I play True Draco in MD.
You can really tell he has a good understanding of card games
I think it would be interesting rather than analyzing single cards have them look at a few cards that the form core engines for an archetype and have them guess on if that archetype was rogue or meta defining at release.
Love Frank Karsten! amazing guest and game theorist. more videos with him please!
13:48 what did he mean by "for Synchro monsters you don't have to worry about the stars too much"? Aren't they crucial to the Synchro summoning mechanic? Great video btw, I learned a lot about YGO
I'm so impressed that he immediately realized that Red Reboots play from hand effect meant it could be used turn 2. Stuff like that trips me up all the damn time.
How is red reboot a stinker? Its literally banned because its so OP
Like they said in the video, it's never run in the main deck because of how slow (and therefore rare) traps are in modern yugioh
EDIT-Forget the word traps after the parentheses
Yeah, I think that's the edition because Frank said "Main stinker, OP sideboard", and they don't label with correct/incorrect.
I think because they meant for the main board, but that's dishonest because plenty of staples exists in and out of the sideboard. Like evenly most certainly isn't a stinker, but that's a side board card too.
I guess in this case, a better label would be "Situational".
@@erikklouda570 Imperm
Love your sweater. These are super fun to watch from a magic player's perspective
16:05 "[Cyber-Stein]... It's a non-searchable monster"
Road Warrior: "Guess I don't exist"
cyber stein is incredibly searchable. you just use sprights
Yu-gi-oh would be a lot more fun if duels lasted 7 turns. Actually have an opportunity to draw the out.
I don't know about "more fun". It'd have to be a completely different game. _Very_ early Yu-Gi-Oh was that slow paced, but we're talking 20 years of card design between now and then, and most people who play the game regularly, even if they have their gripes with (insert current format here) usually agree that they'd still rather take that over going back to those days.
Now it'd be interesting if there was an alternate history card design where the game would've evolved to stay a relatively slow paced game, but I can't really see how - the game started with cards having no costs, the existence of an extra deck (even if it was originally very different to what we have now) and monsters whose attack stats were high enough that getting 2-3 monsters on board would end the game on the spot, and pretty much all card games tend to follow the general rule of making cards more powerful as time goes on to keep selling sets. Hard to see how that would work with Yu-Gi-Oh's basic rules premises without making the game increasingly faster too.
FWIW there are some modern archetypes that force the game into more turns by using powerful control or floodgate effects (usually at the cost of not being able to close out the game quickly themselves either), but I've not seen anyone yet who's ecstatic to be on the opposite end of that for "the opportunity to draw the out".
@@hannessteffenhagen61 yeah there's is no way to "fix" Yugioh Konami can just make alternative formats like goat and they actually need to make rush duels world wide
Speed Duels are this
I always enjoy these, nice host and guests!
I always hit like on these staple/stinker videos even before watching cuz they’re just so cool pls make MORE
An old roommate of mine built a deck around Last Warrior. Used an early version of the Hero fusion engine (Absolute Zero and the like) along with Interdimensional Matter Transporter (to protect certain Hero fusions or remove Last Warrior) and Light of Intervention to prevent opponents from playing any creatures/monsters.
Absolute zero and interdimentional matter transporter is basically free board wipe in the early game.
Cost down might actually help during pendulum deck creation depending on which pendulum creatures you have. If you happen to have one low pendulum and 1 medium scale pendulum creature your in great shape if you can lower some of your creatures down a few levels in the hand
Great video, although I wonder how long it was in the editing pipeline, given Frank's videos on the Magic channel were 1-2 months ago and he's wearing the same shirt. :D
The pinpoint perfect assessment of Red Reboot - side deck staple, main deck stinker - is so good lol
These staple or stinker are MOST of the reason I’m subbed 😅 keep ‘em coming and I’ll keep watching.
I can't even be bothered to sub.
I let the algorithm tell me when one has been uploaded.
I might care enough to sub if I could actually order their stuff. I would very much like to do that because there are many cards I would like to collect in every possible language but they don't ship outside of Europe last I checked so screw 'em.
@@RunicSigils kinda a dickhead move, but I’m not you so make the decisions you want.