I don't know if you'll see a new comment like this on an old video, but I hope so Eric! This has been, I might go as far as to say, transformative for my consistency and definitely distance. As an upright swinger, I think I fought for years trying to do more of a throwing release, which obviously doesn't work with the upright. Now with the twist, I actually rifled a couple of drives the other day over 260 yards for the first time ever. It is making a difference through the entire bag, particularly with my sand and lob wedges. I no longer fear trying to hit full shots with these clubs. For whatever reason I could never truly hit anything beyond short pitches with them, but now I'm gaining more and more confidence with them every day. Thanks so much to you and Kevin!
This video is really good. I had been struggling with the twist release, it just never felt comfortable and I would hit huge pull hooks with it. It led to me using more of the holdoff release that you guys talked about in the video. I started to use this throw release after watching this video and it has made a huge difference for me. It just feels so much more natural and gave me the confidence to swing more inside out without worrying about going way right all the time or pulling across my body and hitting a big slice. My consistency has gone way up. It has added distance to my irons and driver as well because I am able to relax and not grip the club for dear life.
I agree, I follow those three teachers and the great Mike Austin. I don’t understand why other channels don’t teach throw with the right hand method. I tried the impact snap and holding off the release/throw and it ruined my game.
Love the demonstration of how golf is a side on sport and how the swing is an arc. Outstanding! Thanks so much for this coaching series. Must watch golf instruction!
eric, i really like these golf discussions with other teachers, keep bringing them to us when you can. this type of swing release seems to be kind of like fred couples, he seems to swing his arms back while cocking his wrists and kinda throws the clubhead at the ball. at least that's what it looks like to me. it's good to hear the different ways to do it.
Your videos with other teachers who teach a different type of golf swing to your own are awesome for someone like me trying to figure out how to develop my own swing. I grew up (a long time ago) playing tennis and although I was taught to serve in a particular way, I eventually developed my own style. I took up golf at an older age and am now trying to do the same thing with my golf swing.
I know this is an old video but I’m so glad I stumbled on it. I’ve been trying the throw release but I didn’t realise it has to come out in line with the right arm. So I have basically been scooping it or leaving the face way open. Makes sense. I’m going to try both now I know how to do each one properly and see what works best for me
This fits in nicely with the release pattern that Mike Malaska was talking about--more of a slap release that keeps the clubface square to the arc. Obviously, both (slap & twist) can work because you can see players on tour that do both. I guess that both patterns have elements from earlier in the swing that either work with or fight the respective impact pattern. Interested to see the next vid where you are talking about the backswing. But all this goes to show why golf is so damn frustrating! When I think about all those years focusing on creating lag and a flat left wrist and now we are talking about the heresy of a flipped left wrist at impact! I guess we have just evolved enough to look at these moves as patterns and a pattern has a blend of things that are compatible and not! I do think that the majority of us looking at these vids to get better would do better with something that simplifies how the clubface squares up to the ball! Just saying! p.s. talk about a dream job as a golf professional--head teaching pro at a Monterrey Peninsula gc!
Excellent, excellent video! I most appreciated that you and Kevin acknowledged both release styles can work well depending on various factors. I’m also a twist release player as I was taught to let the face open and close naturally and have been fortunate to play a draw throughout my golf career. Keep up the great work Eric.
This video and your others on this topic have helped me alot Eric. My opinion - open to critique, High hands (more upright shaft, radial dev left wrist) is not the indicator of needing twist. Radial deviated left wrist at address is also possible with a flatter address is possible ala Hogan. Left arm and shaft in line. This condition requires twist release. The more angle (ulnar deviation) at address the more upright shaft will be at impact. So the match up for zeroing impact shaft plane to address plane requires straight line from arm to shaft via radial deviated wrist with either Flatter setup = stand further from ball, flatter club lie, or More Upright setup, stand closer to ball, upright club lie and much shorter club much length. So naturally 1st option is chosen. Very weak grip matches up also for twisters. They use it as a restriction. It does not match the hinge action required for throw action. You cant say Hogan throws when setup doesnt match what is required for throw. Throwers also dont have wild low hooks. So those with L wrist angle at setup, to have less steep an impact shaft plane vs address, we need more throw release. In the case if Justin Thomas, he has a much higher impact shaft plane at address because he has a mostly twist style release and gets L arm shaft more inline at impact (radial dev) vs sergio who is less wrist angle at address and increases this at impact but his shaft plane at address and impact are closer. Though I think the throw is great for myself. Swinging like Hogan is hard.
Looking forward to the backswing portion of the throw release. I was a natural "thrower" and got changed by swing coaches. Never as good as when I started.
I'm like you I could never do the twist method unless I'm trying to curve the ball, I always push my palm through the impact zone to hit a push-fade or push-draw minimal curve... if I've stretched lol. Never had a coach just my uncle who could've gone pro (if he ever cared about school or had a coach get a hold of him with funding) and my dad who always said the ball goes where your hands go, and their example was throwing a beach ball to someone from the impact position. Kevin talking at 9:50 about players losing it by changing their release pattern makes me think of Speith (mainly) and a few others where even with a few years of pounding balls and drills it just doesn't click fully and it may never.
@@CogornoGolf Add me to the list of people looking forward to companion videos to this. This discussion helped me realise that my release isn't "wrong"...it just needs to be coordinated with the rest of my swing. What patterns do you need to follow leading up to each release style to get the best results?
I'm glad i found this video, very helpful. On another video yesterday you answered my question about wrist flexion/extension vs deviation and thank you for your response. I think my issue is I have a twist release but have wanted a throw release and i've combined elements of both at the same time and my swing becomes a disaster in the process. I'm going to work on a throw release now as I like how straight and controlled the ball flight is when i manage to do it correctly. I wish more instructors would discuss various release types, it doesnt come up often.
Lot of great stuff out there on this and to me the most crucial part of the golf swing once you can take hitting it in the middle (ish) of the face as a given. - Jim Hardy/ Chris Oconnell (alluded to in video) ... LOP vs RIT - Mac Ogrady - CP vs CF - Malaska move with the throw release All of these are great and illustrate the same points it's about which one of them resonates with you and creates the best feel. Bottom line, the back of the left hand controls the club face and if you hit hooks you need prevent the left hand from turning down (more pointing side or to the sky) and if you slice it off the planet you need to feel more supination. Most players start out with not enough supination and slice it of the planet then over correct it to see the ball go left of left. Some where in the middle is the answer but most better players fight hooks and the throw release is better to help that. Left elbow breaks down to fight the centrifugal force from taking over and rolling the club face. I never understood why Spieth got crap for the chicken wing. In a player of his level, the left elbow breaking is a club face stabilizer and one of the reasons he hit it so straight for so long. Brooks is another great example who does this. One important thing, if you feel the right hand throw too much or too soon, you are dead. Holding the flying wedge for long promotes so many good things for most. If you start hitting it way right, you need to feel the throw sooner and more pronounced. Roll release will give more flash speed and hit it further generally (about 10-15 yards for me) but way more inconsistent flight. Throw release 10-15 yards less and way more predictable pattern. If you don't need the distance, it's a no brainer to throw it and keep the club face stable. Really good stuff here
Nice write up I started with Jim hardy plane truth and had good success but seem to lost my way and tried to work it out my self, I'm up to bowing wrist to up top to let the knuckles face ball and fall down releasing club and hit ball with left arm and I get very solid strong draw flight, I really don't know what I release I am,
Trying to skip a rock on water (for right hander) is done all with the right hand. Is the right hand in control on the throw release, with the left hand(arm) very relaxed? Have I been trying to control the club with the wrong hand all of these years? Thank you....very informative video, your response will hopefully clear some things up for me.
Hey Bill! Yeah, right hand/arm and body! Of course you CAN feel things with left hand as well....all that matters is the motion is correct when you record it!
Looking forward to the next installment. It would be interesting to see some HackMotion graphs of the wrist conditions for the Throw vs Twist Release. I'm starting to understand the importance of face control with hand/wrist control in my swing. Keep 'em coming!
Found this after watching your videos with Steve Pratt. A lot of Mike Austin in here. What I've noticed when I get the throw release right is a much higher ball flight too.
Thank you Eric for great content, great channel. However, this video leaves me confused. I've suffered from flipping/scooping for too many years and only lately have I found good advice for bending back the right wrist, straight line release etc. and I've finally found the way or feel how to control the club face. In this video, for example at 14:10 you are clearly scooping, or at least feeling the throwing motion. And as advised in this video, if I think that from last parallel, where the club face should point to the ball, to 1-2 feet after the ball, where the left wrist "should be cupped" - what has to happen in between must be a scoop/flip, right? Who should use throw release, one who holds the right wrist back too much?
Thanks for the kind words and being with us! This is simple for you....if you suffer from flipping/scooping you need to feel the opposite! So this one is not for you my friend. You need to figure out WHY you are scooping (could be open clubface, steep downswing, poor pivot, etc) and fix that I would get the face more closed, right wrist more bent back and left wrist more flat bowed These should help: ruclips.net/video/kgexnhJ8qGw/видео.html ruclips.net/video/MmEUSfgmO6E/видео.html ruclips.net/video/A1jN9v8dTw4/видео.html
@@CogornoGolf Thanks for your reply and clarification, I think I've seen all those videos and learnt a lot :) Twisting and clearing the left hip out of the way is my way to go!
Eric Cogorno Golf inwould actually wonder if someone struggling with the scoop isn’t falling for the “late hit” vs throwing from the top? The one comment about below the waist no fly zone...below the Waist is a scoop. From the top...throw = crushing.
Hi Eric beginner here, So I record myself and showed my swing pattern (throw) to my buddies they say I wasn’t releasing the club (all of them do the twist) which I thought I was doing something wrong but after watching this I’m happy to see this is a valid swing pattern!
I've changed to a flatter swing recently and crush the ball like I've never done before. I'm talking when I feel that perfect hit (never really felt anything like this before with being steep) 320 with a R580 TM driver (20 year old tech) in my 40's. The thing is though, I never actively think about my release at all. Once I'm in that power move of big torso turn, head slightly off the ball, and shaft more shallow behind me, from there it's just a rip it feeling. I feel like I can just turn and hit the ball as hard as I possible can and the result is straighter and more consistent than my steep swing. Talking about the release seems like it could mess ppl up trying to get into certain positions with that artificially though.
Eric, impressive you can switch between these releases. That was cool to see. So, if I'm connecting the dots right here. Flatter swingers, are better served by using the throw release and to make that happen should have more left arm supination in the backswing?
Yo Eric, what was he going to point out about the divot pattern? Assuming the throw is more of a dollar bill shaped shallow divot and the twist is deeper and not quite as uniform?
Thanks for the videos! They are great and very informative. You have interviewed a few teachers with different philosophies about the swing. Which one do you prefer and why? The twist release, throw release, or set up to impact and stay in that position (Don't recall the technical name. A guy you interviewed in California)? Thank you.
Hey Dave! I dont prefer any...I like them all and take bits of information from everyone we met with....learned from them all. We position things a certain way for youtube to get people to watch....but rarely are there any coaches or methods that are all that much different I would say 90% of the time we are saying basically the same things....
Eric, I didn't understand what was said about Bubba and his swing? "He plays a curve" was the comment.Why isn't that the solution for all of us, that is, determine what your natural ball flight is and allow for it. As well, how does Bubba hit that big slice so consistently? Great visual on the ground by the way.
Hey! The general idea of this video is there are some things that pair together in a golf swing that would lend itself more toward straight shots. Then there are parts that work together that lend more toward curve. I generally like to see the average golfer play some type of curve and hit every shot that way to build in a pattern. As for bubba.....that would be called TALENT :)
I’m wondering if there is such a thing as a hybrid release. Both happening at the same time. The twist to help square the club head at impact and the throw to promote a rehinging of the wrists in the followthru.
@@CogornoGolf That's a loaded response lol I know you've done other videos that deal with release, I'm wondering if you could do one in the near future that would deal specifically with what this gentleman mentioned, that most of the time people are doing some sort of combination, throw and twist? I also know you have done videos dealing with feeling things from a trail arm or lead arm perspective. I am in the lead arm camp, precisely because I am a left-handed person that plays golf right-handed. It is impossible for me almost to feel things from a trail arm perspective. I think maybe that's why the twist feels more "natural" to me then the throw motion, as well as matching up better to me as an upright swinger. Thoughts?
Fascinating video!!! I always dismissed this throw release because I assumed it was not as effective ... BUT is the trend on the PGA Tour to use this throw release? I notice that Tiger and Rory presumably use this throw release. I have always swung the club so that my right wrist is cupped (extended) as I approach the finish. All things equal, which release is better? I don't mind changing my swing if it's probably going to make me strike the ball better.
Great questions. Which is better....chocolate or vanilla? Depends who you ask :) Neither is better---variations of each will work for a player depending on their club face angle, torso positions and other relevant factors in the downswing
eric this is great info superb as so many instructors may force you into one of these release patterns thanks I think Im gonna visit bethlehem can you describe the difference in the divot patterns that kevin alluded to thank you
@@CogornoGolf kevin said there was a difference in the divot patterns based on release can you elaborate ie (path depth divot etc ) it might be helpful to analyze on course correction and for training thanks in advance for your time
Kevin's explanations are awesome! Now I think I am understanding why I have to accept that I have a flattish Matt Kuchar style one plane swing, and not try to adopt swing advice designed for more upright swing plane hitters. I have a question for you Eric: It seems to me that the Pure Swing Precision Impact device that bows your right wrist back and keeps it bowed through impact, is NOT going to work with a one plane flat style swing. Kevin's channel has an outstanding video on hitting soft pitch shots, suitable for one plane people like me, where he advocates letting the left wrist break down after impact, the opposite of the move using the Precision Impact device. Please comment Eric?? I'd so appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.
Thanks for watching, Arnold! A lot of golfers, whether they have a more upright swing or more of a flat swing, have their right wrist throwing too much too soon (extension to flexion). In that case, they would need to feel like their right wrist stays bent back essentially forever. If you can learn to keep your right wrist bent back forever....it's easy to learn to throw it at the correct time, no matter your swing style :) Hope this helps!
@@CogornoGolf Great answer Eric! You made it very clear to me what I need to do. My wife bought me the device for Xmas, can't wait to use it. Your channel is outstanding and I hope you have an awesome 2023!
Excellent. Don’t know what I am but my ball flight is high straight with all irons and been told I come over the top. Ware on my club face is right of center. Should I use throw or swist since now my feeling is I am flipping at impact losing distance with each #iron? Any suggestions?
Hi Eric, love the detailed lesson, can I just ask, what would be the clubface position be at last parallel relative to the differing techniques, I image the top would be pointing more up for the twist release. Cheers Eric
I wish there would have been time for Roman to follow up on his divot comment. Do you know what he was going to say the different types of divots produced by the two styles?
ERIC & Kevin Roman, great video. This really helps us to distinguish these two different release patterns. Did Mike Austin use the “Throw” pattern? Definitely the pattern of Mike Malaska, he gives that exact same pitcher throw demo. I get the idea there is less forearm rotation in the “Throw Release” from your discussion on the logo on the shaft stays visible. What I didn’t understand was does this completely eliminate arm rotation or just in this hitting zone you covered in the video? What is slightly confusing is the fact that there appears to be more players who follow the forearm rotation in the backswing and follow through but also have adopted the flap or throw release in the post impact / follow through part of the swing. So they are successfully blending the lead wrist extension/ cupping with body rotation & forearm/ arm rotation into the follow through. But in their pattern there is forearm rotation (lead arm supination from last parallel) required to square the club face into impact. They are also holding the trail wrist angle into impact but then releasing it through / post impact. Question Kevin Roman, do you see players mix and matching these different patterns? Namely twisters adopting the release only part of the throw release in the through swing but holding the twist pattern in backswing & downswing into impact? Myles
How does this to compare to your video about 'what all good ball strikers do...' ? in that video you seem to favor a release where there is forearm supination, but here you are favoring the throw release. I am getting a bit of a disconnect between the two videos.
Hey Alex! It seems to me like in this video we are presenting two options. Not sure I claimed to prefer either. Every swing has supination. That's a measured fact. Pro golfers have more supination than ams. Measured fact. There is supination in both the throw and twist. If someone has not enough supination I want them to have more. If someone has too much supination I want them to have less. Hope that helps-all the best!
Hey man! I would say Marty/Impact Snap would be adding more unhinging and supination (twist) Which is how I have always released it....and a lot of hall of famers! Neither right or wrong....chocolate and vanilla both good. Just different ingredients required.
Who would you say uses the twist style on tour? Bubba, Phil, Vijay when he was out there, maybe Reed...can't think of many others. Feels a lot more comfortable though
I have been playing for 35+ years mostly twist and I think it just evolved to the throw. This year I have been trying the big muscle turn swing and went from 75-85 to having to struggle to break 90. I have no t hing at this point but a great short game. What he was saying really hit home after so long of swinging its almost impossible to change. Do I just start over at this point
Hey! I would really need to see your swings on video and know more info to be able to suggest specific things for YOU. Feel free to join www.cogornogolf.com if you dont get it sorted so you can send me your swings and I can give you specific advice!
Perhaps...would have to do a study on that. Vertical swing plane is what we are looking at here....I think that could be a LOW or HIGH angle regardless of height.
My right shoulder always drops I guess to get the club started on the inside but I seem to hit my shots 2 clubs shorter than most. Any suggestions on dipping the right shoulder?
Hey Pat! You have to figure out WHY its dropping (is there something going on earlier to cause it.....like too much slide, left hip getting too high too early, etc) and fix that. I would have to see a video of your swing to say for sure....if you find a good coach to work with they should be able to help.
When my trail shoulder drops, it because I turned my head too soon to watch my ball flight. I am also rushing my swing. Yes, a lot goes on before the shoulder drop.
I think this would lead to flipping the club through at impact. Maybe not if you can keep your posture. Im trying to learn coming from the inside and bowing the wrist on the downswing to square the face. I guess stick with one and master it.
It's a weird feeling I always suffered from a flip...essentially tho, is this release a flip but I just throw it later? Instead of by my right leg? Same motion, just different timing and more rotation?
Hi Eric, thanks for the video. I'm I'm fan of mehlhorn and Bobby Shave teachings. Was on Kevin's Instagram where he posted videos of mehlhorn hitting balls dtl. I was wondering what kind of release mehlhorn was if u could give me some feedback that would be great. Thanks again!
This is the release everybody should try struggling with consistency. I moved from 22 to 14 HC I just imagine I slap the ball with my flat hand really hard. No more face rotation through the hitting area.
Kevin is so correct about lie angles. I have an older set of Titleist AP2 that are Titleist Spec +1 upright and I have my current set of Mizunos at Mizuno Spec -2 flat. And in the era of my Titleist Clubs, Titleist Spec was already 2 more upright than Mizunos Spec( big tall American's versus shorter Japanese was always my guess), so the actual difference in my new Mizunos is that they are 5 degrees flatter. When I came back to the game 18 months ago, I re-taught myself this newer mostly throw release versus my old twist and when I take out my old X-Stiff staffed Titleist clubs for a few hits at the range to see if my elbows have improved enough to hit these heavy shafts, it is just hysterical how much hook I put on the ball given how upright they are.
So well said about 'roll and play the curve' vs. throw to 'play straight.' I feel like I play a constant blend of both of these which drives me a little crazy sometimes but I do see the benefit of both for certain shots. For example, I personally cannot find a more accurate way to hit a wedge straight, good contact and close than Sam Goulden's square to square type of swing on my approaches and I've always had a tendency to use my body/rotate more anyway. In contrast when I started playing longer courses in my uni team as a mature student at only 5ft 9in, I'm surrounded by guys half my age who roll the sh** out of their release and the sound, speed, flow, distance and conservation of energy throughout the round is remarkable! I prefer this extra distance for my tee shots and second shots on par 5s. When I roll it's less accurate but the extra distance knocks a bunch of strokes off because I'm hitting more wedges, close to the green and can fall back on the very accurate 'square to the arc swing'. The problem is when you have a bad day and your shape changes. I think golf as a smaller guy isn't really talked about much (might make a good video) but for me to be in contention I've gotta 'let it go' somewhat. Not to mention although I keep fit, if I play more body rotation/accuracy and square release it can feel like a lot of physical work by the 17th hole when you have to attack to win and there are 20mph winds on a Scottish links course playing in the cold in October. Also sometimes a very square release feels like I'm relying on body structure to 'hit the ball for me' but I think rolling helps sensitivity and skill acquisition in my hands which is useful when I have to play more creative shots after missing and ending up in a bad spot. Sorry for the long post Eric, I just find your videos really thought provoking but hope this helps others think about this. It just seems to me that maybe to some extend different releases are needed for different shots but maybe I would improve faster if I stuck to one like in your video summary. What are your thoughts on mixing it up like this having coached a lot of juniors and adults over the years?
Hey man! Thanks for the kind words....probably too in depth of a convo we would need to have for a youtube comment. Check out www.cogornogolf.com I can spend more time with ya there talking through this
Hey Eric. Thought I'd just put it out there but totally understand. The site looks great! Currently with the lockdown and university, funds are pretty tight but once I'm back to work I'll see you there! Looks like a fantastic resource and I honestly think you are a fantastic coach. I feel you minimise cryptic jargon and give a really good concise but balanced overview/insight between ideas rather than a narrow focus, which is why I think this series, distilling different instructors' views is fascinating and really showcases your strengths. Wonderful! See you at Cogornogolf soon. Thank you for what you do.
Loved the video! Embraced my draw at the range and hit it great! I've been following you for a long time and it appears my swing is very similar to yours. Ie I suffer from the same problems as you do like early extension and missing left with over draw and hooks. I've been a single digit handicapper for 20 years but sometimes things go south. My question is what is one or two things you go to mid round or on the range to mitigate the hook and get back on track?
Hey man! Yes that is us! 1. More left side of body rotation(could be left leg, left hip, left pec, left shoulder) 2. Feeling the club work through impact on a lower angle (vertical swing plane) and more left with left arm pulling left past impact 3. Less roll with release (back of left elbow to target longer or face feeling more up to sky Some form of that if I'm over hooking.
hi joshua ... here's my two cents ... it all depends on the position of the sternum in relation to the ball ... keep it a tiny lil' bit back and the face will start twisting a lil' earlier ... = pull/draw ... move the sternum a tiny bit ahead of the ball and the face will start closing later ... = push/fade ... try it next time on the range and think of sternum position / spine angle and nothing else ... 10 minutes later you'll have the feeling ... :) :) :) hope it will help
Hey Nicholas! I dont think either would produce more distance across the board. Generally speaking less curve with throw vs twist.....but that doesnt necessarily mean more accurate. But yes-if I had to pick one for more accuracy I would get the clubface more tilted down during downswing and more throw.
Muscles only contract(PULL). Golf swing can be a PUSH(throw) with hands, or PULL with clubhead speed generated by deceleration of proximal causing acceleration of distal as TPI breaks down the golf swing to real science.
Hope this helps! I dont think this is Malaskas move....or Hardys move.....or anyones move. Its just a movement within the golf swing that pairs well with other parts. Not everyone throws. Not everyone does the twist style. Neither right or wrong. Have to pair the other parts together.
@@CogornoGolf I so appreciate your particular style, referring to parts and patterns, and matching them up to get what works for a particular swing, be it upright or flat. Between this and some other videos, your information is making a world of difference in my game. Even though I have broken 90 maybe a half dozen or so times in the past, it's been quite awhile, but I feel that 85 or possibly better may be in sight at some point in the not too distant future. After getting fit for a new set of clubs a few months back, it's been a little bit of a struggle. But just in the last couple weeks, I have seen marked improvement (you probably have seen my comments on other videos). The other day, if I had used a bit better course management and sunk a couple putts I would have easily broken 90 (92, and my wife and I play the ball down, no improving lies, no mulligans and no gimmies no matter how close. We play it straight up no matter what, only way to know accurately what you shoot). Thank you Eric!
Ohhh my God....He says Ben Hogan's release was like that. That is why is so hard to learn the golf swing, bad advice from many wannabes out there. Eric..I'm not talking about you, you know I respect you a great deal.
Thanks for the feedback and kind words. Best to find a good coach to work with and identify the top 1-3 priorities for you and stick with them....that way any other advice won't effect ya :)
I hope people who watch this video know that the information is straight from the work of Jim Hardy and Chris O'Connell even thought it was not credited. The single reference to Chris doesn't make it clear where this info is from. It's almost verbatim from copyrighted books and videos.
Thanks for the feedback, Harry! Thats my fault-working to fix that. Jim posted message I saw on Facebook and I responded to him to tell him the same thing. I will make sure it is in all of the descriptions of the videos and add text to video. Wasn't trying to present the info as our own, I had thought we (Kevin) mentioned them during. We filmed 3 videos back to back and I think he mentioned more in first which I should have realized wouldn't be in all of them. All the best.
@@CogornoGolf Thanks Eric. "The Release" and the "The Release" videos by at www.planetruthgolf.tv are a great resource and build on Jim Hardy's several earlier books starting with "The Plane Truth". I'm sure you are familiar with Jim's work. Thanks for replying to my message. Harry
Great stuff but did Kevin Roman imply that hogan did the throw release? I'd have to strongly disagree. For sure hogan has a more stable release but there was still twisting. Otherwise no need to fix his hook with his "secret" the cupped wrist at the top. Just looking at his finish. Concentration drill and coleman and cano videos also support he didnt use a throw release. The very short pitch swings in the cano video is also very clear no throw but roll. Ed sullivan show clip is not throw release more like roll - stable - roll.
@@CogornoGolf hi Eric a Happy New Year, love the vid from today. Back on this topic of hogan throw vs twist. Yes there might some proportion of both on a minority of swings but still with a clear dominant pattern. Consider Hogans flatter address with hardly any left wrist ulnar deviation. Kevin here says high hands = more twist release. Though I think its not the high hands but that high hands commonly have left wrist less/ulnar deviation at address. This match up (no ulnar at setup = having) results in twist release. This setup was designed imo so Hogan could exactly have impact shaft plane return to his setup shaft plane. Where Hogan looks like throw is in the follow through but its just because he has setup his left forearm restriction to prevent club face turning over (Bryson calls it his swing govenor and why bryson is also a twister). Hogan's no roll, held off look after p8 into his final pose thus very likely not a result of a throw release. Open to thoughts on this for sure
@@CogornoGolf at first i didnt give this too much thought as Kevin seemed to indicate either or. A hybrid of the 2 warrants consideration. If you ever do a video on this, would be great. Thanks Eric
Why the cupped wrist so soon after impact resulting in the butt of the club remaining close to the body? Is that for feel purposes only? Your other videos want to get long after impact, with the butt as far away from you as you can.
But the question is - for the throw release (which is similar to a huge putting stroke where the club face is always perpendicular to the swing arc), why not position the shaft through the sweet spot (like a putter) which would then make hitting the sweet spot much much easier.
Congrats you’re 16 years behind Jim Hardy, Chris O’. and their Plane Truth Academy. This overview should kindly provide those references from you Eric as a pro. At least one of you made some reference to Chris, the mentor. There is much more to the “horizontal throw” and roll “twist” release than is contained here. For those of you that are interested in learning from the source..it’s not Malaska.. go see Plane Truth and read the books and watch their instructional videos. That’s the plain truth.
i can't agree with he early sqaure position. if you hit a few wedge shots with your shadow on your target line, or just to the right of it, and focus on swinging the club from in to in, you will see how the clubhead, suddenly accelerates late on in the hitting area. the club has to accelerate to go from in to in. you will be able to get the feel of that straight away; but anyone who doesn't, can get the feel of swinging in to in by hitting a few little chips with a 3 iron. the only way you can get any feel or control, with the 3 iron, is to swing from in to in.
@Roenie's Gaming Empire well, as the video explains earlier on, the clubface remains square in relation to swing arc, thru the swing. so, it was slightly surprising that he should talk of shutting down the face thru the hitting area; but "in to in" does not involve any attempt to square up the face, or allowing the left wrist flip thru impact. when bill mehlhorn, who pioneered in to in, demonstrates the movement of the left hand and arm thru the shot, in his rare and audio interrupted video, he demonstrates why it is unnatural to focus on angle of the clubface thru the hitting area. and, he don't shut the face down while he does it. the simple fact is that you have to apply force to both sides of the shaft with the left hand.
As a retired pro golfer in retirement I was always a twist action type player but very erratic, therefore I took lessons at retirement, from my local pros based on a one plane throw release thinking this was a good idea to help. This screwed me up even more so, totally un natural and week in power and strike, however a hi-bread swing that is seldom taught, which considering most of the top players use in some form of hi-bread, is much better. I have now achieved this with far greater consistency, much improved but with none of the throw release lack of power and contact weakness. To me their are three main actions not two ( Excluding Stack and tilt and single plane ) so I have to give this video a thumbs down but appreciate your insights on the other two.
I’ve got to quit watching swing videos. I suffer from spending to much time trying to determine if it’s a body or arm swing and whether it benefits or contradicts what I’m trying to achieve.
@@CogornoGolf I’ve been to several coaches all highly recommended in my area, (not by me). Just give this some thought Hank Haney highly thought of, fired by Tiger, because the student knew more than the teacher... what is a good coach?
Haha A good coach is one who makes you better..... But of course that requires a good student as well :) Cant help someone who doesn't want (or accept) the help
At some stage are any of these guys going to mention Jim Hardy's name? This guy, Mike Malaska? None of them ever mentioned this before Hardy wrote his books? Hmm..I think if you are repeating someones original work verbatim but never mentioning the source its bad form. In academia it's called plagiarism. The funny thing in the comments below is people say "Oh yeah, this is what Mike Malaska teaches too." Ahh yeah, he's another one that doesn't reference his sources and pretends everything is his own original thoughts. We're reading the same books you are guys....
Thanks for the feedback! Kevin was sure to mention Jim and Chris in the first video of this series. I also made sure to include their names and info giving them credit in the descriptions below the videos if you take a look there. Kevin had discussions with Jim on this-all good! All the best!
sam I Obviously you have barely watched Mike Malaska videos. He often goes out of his way to point out that he is not teaching a "Malaska" swing for there is nothing new in golf instruction, rather a constant reaching back or in a different direction to find better answers for different golfers. As he has said, one can find instruction in books from a Century or more ago that mirrors much of what is claimed to be "new" today. Get informed yourself before spouting off about a subject you clearly have only minimal knowledge of. Wendell R
I don't know if you'll see a new comment like this on an old video, but I hope so Eric! This has been, I might go as far as to say, transformative for my consistency and definitely distance. As an upright swinger, I think I fought for years trying to do more of a throwing release, which obviously doesn't work with the upright. Now with the twist, I actually rifled a couple of drives the other day over 260 yards for the first time ever. It is making a difference through the entire bag, particularly with my sand and lob wedges. I no longer fear trying to hit full shots with these clubs. For whatever reason I could never truly hit anything beyond short pitches with them, but now I'm gaining more and more confidence with them every day. Thanks so much to you and Kevin!
Love to hear that Brian!!
This video is really good. I had been struggling with the twist release, it just never felt comfortable and I would hit huge pull hooks with it. It led to me using more of the holdoff release that you guys talked about in the video. I started to use this throw release after watching this video and it has made a huge difference for me. It just feels so much more natural and gave me the confidence to swing more inside out without worrying about going way right all the time or pulling across my body and hitting a big slice. My consistency has gone way up.
It has added distance to my irons and driver as well because I am able to relax and not grip the club for dear life.
Excellent! Glad to hear that mike....you're heading in the right direction!
From Malaska to Pratt to Roman, I think I'm spotting a trend here. I'm liking it!
:) Good guys!
I agree, I follow those three teachers and the great Mike Austin. I don’t understand why other channels don’t teach throw with the right hand method. I tried the impact snap and holding off the release/throw and it ruined my game.
Love the demonstration of how golf is a side on sport and how the swing is an arc. Outstanding! Thanks so much for this coaching series. Must watch golf instruction!
Thank you! Fun for us to hang with Kevin!!
Great video - throw release is pretty close to what Mike Malaska teaches. It made my ball striking much more consistent.
Thanks! Excellent!
exactly, I was thinking about the "Malaska Move" as well :-)
eric, i really like these golf discussions with other teachers, keep bringing them to us when you can. this type of swing release seems to be kind of like fred couples, he seems to swing his arms back while cocking his wrists and kinda throws the clubhead at the ball. at least that's what it looks like to me. it's good to hear the different ways to do it.
Great to hear! Thanks for the feedback Steve!
Your videos with other teachers who teach a different type of golf swing to your own are awesome for someone like me trying to figure out how to develop my own swing. I grew up (a long time ago) playing tennis and although I was taught to serve in a particular way, I eventually developed my own style. I took up golf at an older age and am now trying to do the same thing with my golf swing.
Thanks, John! Hope they help!
I know this is an old video but I’m so glad I stumbled on it. I’ve been trying the throw release but I didn’t realise it has to come out in line with the right arm. So I have basically been scooping it or leaving the face way open. Makes sense. I’m going to try both now I know how to do each one properly and see what works best for me
Hope it helps ya James!
This fits in nicely with the release pattern that Mike Malaska was talking about--more of a slap release that keeps the clubface square to the arc. Obviously, both (slap & twist) can work because you can see players on tour that do both. I guess that both patterns have elements from earlier in the swing that either work with or fight the respective impact pattern. Interested to see the next vid where you are talking about the backswing.
But all this goes to show why golf is so damn frustrating! When I think about all those years focusing on creating lag and a flat left wrist and now we are talking about the heresy of a flipped left wrist at impact! I guess we have just evolved enough to look at these moves as patterns and a pattern has a blend of things that are compatible and not! I do think that the majority of us looking at these vids to get better would do better with something that simplifies how the clubface squares up to the ball! Just saying! p.s. talk about a dream job as a golf professional--head teaching pro at a Monterrey Peninsula gc!
:)
Very informative as ever. Always good to see both sides so we can see somewhat where we personally fit in.
Thanks, Stephen!
This is the video that changed everything for me!
Love to hear that! Thanks so much for watching!
Excellent, excellent video! I most appreciated that you and Kevin acknowledged both release styles can work well depending on various factors. I’m also a twist release player as I was taught to let the face open and close naturally and have been fortunate to play a draw throughout my golf career. Keep up the great work Eric.
Yessir! Thanks man-appreciate ya!
This video and your others on this topic have helped me alot Eric.
My opinion - open to critique,
High hands (more upright shaft, radial dev left wrist) is not the indicator of needing twist. Radial deviated left wrist at address is also possible with a flatter address is possible ala Hogan. Left arm and shaft in line. This condition requires twist release.
The more angle (ulnar deviation) at address the more upright shaft will be at impact.
So the match up for zeroing impact shaft plane to address plane requires straight line from arm to shaft via radial deviated wrist with either
Flatter setup = stand further from ball, flatter club lie, or
More Upright setup, stand closer to ball, upright club lie and much shorter club much length.
So naturally 1st option is chosen.
Very weak grip matches up also for twisters. They use it as a restriction. It does not match the hinge action required for throw action. You cant say Hogan throws when setup doesnt match what is required for throw. Throwers also dont have wild low hooks.
So those with L wrist angle at setup, to have less steep an impact shaft plane vs address, we need more throw release.
In the case if Justin Thomas, he has a much higher impact shaft plane at address because he has a mostly twist style release and gets L arm shaft more inline at impact (radial dev) vs sergio who is less wrist angle at address and increases this at impact but his shaft plane at address and impact are closer.
Though I think the throw is great for myself. Swinging like Hogan is hard.
Looking forward to the backswing portion of the throw release. I was a natural "thrower" and got changed by swing coaches. Never as good as when I started.
I'm like you I could never do the twist method unless I'm trying to curve the ball, I always push my palm through the impact zone to hit a push-fade or push-draw minimal curve... if I've stretched lol. Never had a coach just my uncle who could've gone pro (if he ever cared about school or had a coach get a hold of him with funding) and my dad who always said the ball goes where your hands go, and their example was throwing a beach ball to someone from the impact position.
Kevin talking at 9:50 about players losing it by changing their release pattern makes me think of Speith (mainly) and a few others where even with a few years of pounding balls and drills it just doesn't click fully and it may never.
Hope it helps!
Bump
@@CogornoGolf Add me to the list of people looking forward to companion videos to this. This discussion helped me realise that my release isn't "wrong"...it just needs to be coordinated with the rest of my swing. What patterns do you need to follow leading up to each release style to get the best results?
This is a great video that explains the 2 kinds of releases and their particulars perfectly - thanks!
Thanks!
The backdrop beats the hell out of El Segundo!
I am enjoying your guest instructors always good to get different views.
Lol....BEAUTIFUL place!
I'm glad i found this video, very helpful. On another video yesterday you answered my question about wrist flexion/extension vs deviation and thank you for your response. I think my issue is I have a twist release but have wanted a throw release and i've combined elements of both at the same time and my swing becomes a disaster in the process. I'm going to work on a throw release now as I like how straight and controlled the ball flight is when i manage to do it correctly. I wish more instructors would discuss various release types, it doesnt come up often.
Hope it serves you well my friend!
This video has been my bible for golf swing . Absolutely the best video ever. 🙏🙏🙏
Love it, Gerdon! Thank you!
this might be the best video you have ever done!
Thanks, Mitch! Fun day! Kevin is great and the facility is amazing!
Really enjoying Cogorno's travels.
Thank you sir! Us too :)
Do it late it’s a scoop and early it’s delofting for more power is crazy cool info
Great stuff, his teaching is very similar to Mike Malaska's, especially at 14:40, that's what Mike calls tipping the club out, AKA the malaska move.
Thank you!👊
Looks a lot like some of the Mike Austin tips Ive been seeing lately. Great video,.
Thanks, Allan!
Love the mindest. Do not change natural swing too much. Plus the positive smiling attitude makes for a great Coach 🤙 super Video!
Thanks, Florian! Great guy!
Throw Release Pattern... *Mr. 59* (David Duval) would approve this message. 👍
:)
Lot of great stuff out there on this and to me the most crucial part of the golf swing once you can take hitting it in the middle (ish) of the face as a given.
- Jim Hardy/ Chris Oconnell (alluded to in video) ... LOP vs RIT
- Mac Ogrady - CP vs CF
- Malaska move with the throw release
All of these are great and illustrate the same points it's about which one of them resonates with you and creates the best feel. Bottom line, the back of the left hand controls the club face and if you hit hooks you need prevent the left hand from turning down (more pointing side or to the sky) and if you slice it off the planet you need to feel more supination. Most players start out with not enough supination and slice it of the planet then over correct it to see the ball go left of left. Some where in the middle is the answer but most better players fight hooks and the throw release is better to help that.
Left elbow breaks down to fight the centrifugal force from taking over and rolling the club face. I never understood why Spieth got crap for the chicken wing. In a player of his level, the left elbow breaking is a club face stabilizer and one of the reasons he hit it so straight for so long. Brooks is another great example who does this. One important thing, if you feel the right hand throw too much or too soon, you are dead. Holding the flying wedge for long promotes so many good things for most. If you start hitting it way right, you need to feel the throw sooner and more pronounced. Roll release will give more flash speed and hit it further generally (about 10-15 yards for me) but way more inconsistent flight. Throw release 10-15 yards less and way more predictable pattern. If you don't need the distance, it's a no brainer to throw it and keep the club face stable. Really good stuff here
Nice write up I started with Jim hardy plane truth and had good success but seem to lost my way and tried to work it out my self, I'm up to bowing wrist to up top to let the knuckles face ball and fall down releasing club and hit ball with left arm and I get very solid strong draw flight, I really don't know what I release I am,
Thanks man! Hope all is well
Well explained, valuable information. Thank you!
Thanks, Walt!
Trying to skip a rock on water (for right hander) is done all with the right hand. Is the right hand in control on the throw release, with the left hand(arm) very relaxed? Have I been trying to control the club with the wrong hand all of these years? Thank you....very informative video, your response will hopefully clear some things up for me.
Hey Bill!
Yeah, right hand/arm and body!
Of course you CAN feel things with left hand as well....all that matters is the motion is correct when you record it!
This answers my cupping left wrist!
Thank you coaches
Looking forward to the next installment. It would be interesting to see some HackMotion graphs of the wrist conditions for the Throw vs Twist Release. I'm starting to understand the importance of face control with hand/wrist control in my swing. Keep 'em coming!
Yeah that would be cool-good idea!
This would be great!
Found this after watching your videos with Steve Pratt. A lot of Mike Austin in here. What I've noticed when I get the throw release right is a much higher ball flight too.
Hope it helps, Kevin!
Thanks a lot kevin Roman very clear and understandable informations .Plane Truth
Kevin is great!
What a great tutorial, thank you so much.
Thanks, Tim!!
Thank you Eric for great content, great channel.
However, this video leaves me confused. I've suffered from flipping/scooping for too many years and only lately have I found good advice for bending back the right wrist, straight line release etc. and I've finally found the way or feel how to control the club face. In this video, for example at 14:10 you are clearly scooping, or at least feeling the throwing motion. And as advised in this video, if I think that from last parallel, where the club face should point to the ball, to 1-2 feet after the ball, where the left wrist "should be cupped" - what has to happen in between must be a scoop/flip, right?
Who should use throw release, one who holds the right wrist back too much?
Thanks for the kind words and being with us!
This is simple for you....if you suffer from flipping/scooping you need to feel the opposite! So this one is not for you my friend.
You need to figure out WHY you are scooping (could be open clubface, steep downswing, poor pivot, etc) and fix that
I would get the face more closed, right wrist more bent back and left wrist more flat bowed
These should help:
ruclips.net/video/kgexnhJ8qGw/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/MmEUSfgmO6E/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/A1jN9v8dTw4/видео.html
@@CogornoGolf Thanks for your reply and clarification, I think I've seen all those videos and learnt a lot :) Twisting and clearing the left hip out of the way is my way to go!
Eric Cogorno Golf inwould actually wonder if someone struggling with the scoop isn’t falling for the “late hit” vs throwing from the top? The one comment about below the waist no fly zone...below the Waist is a scoop. From the top...throw = crushing.
Hi Eric beginner here, So I record myself and showed my swing pattern (throw) to my buddies they say I wasn’t releasing the club (all of them do the twist) which I thought I was doing something wrong but after watching this I’m happy to see this is a valid swing pattern!
Hope it helps my friend!
I've changed to a flatter swing recently and crush the ball like I've never done before. I'm talking when I feel that perfect hit (never really felt anything like this before with being steep) 320 with a R580 TM driver (20 year old tech) in my 40's. The thing is though, I never actively think about my release at all. Once I'm in that power move of big torso turn, head slightly off the ball, and shaft more shallow behind me, from there it's just a rip it feeling. I feel like I can just turn and hit the ball as hard as I possible can and the result is straighter and more consistent than my steep swing. Talking about the release seems like it could mess ppl up trying to get into certain positions with that artificially though.
Thanks for watching!!
Thanks for another great video, Eric! Where can I find the training aid that attaches to the club face?
Hey Jeremy!
If you search magnetic lie angle tool
www.golfworks.com/magnetic-lie-angle-demonstration-tool/p/mlat/
Eric, impressive you can switch between these releases. That was cool to see.
So, if I'm connecting the dots right here. Flatter swingers, are better served by using the throw release and to make that happen should have more left arm supination in the backswing?
Hey!
Dont need more left arm rotation (would be pronation) during backswing....more about the DEPTH of the butt of the club!
@@CogornoGolf Sorry, meant pronation. So depth meaning more around. Cool. Ty!
Good stuff guys 👍 need more of this
Thanks, Paul! Hopefully more with Kevin in the future! Beautiful spot out there in Pebble Beach, CA!
Many of us mix the too releases, bad news. For example, pulling the left arm and throwing is like trying to mix oil and water. Thanks, Eric.
:)
Yo Eric, what was he going to point out about the divot pattern? Assuming the throw is more of a dollar bill shaped shallow divot and the twist is deeper and not quite as uniform?
Thanks for the videos! They are great and very informative. You have interviewed a few teachers with different philosophies about the swing. Which one do you prefer and why? The twist release, throw release, or set up to impact and stay in that position (Don't recall the technical name. A guy you interviewed in California)? Thank you.
Hey Dave!
I dont prefer any...I like them all and take bits of information from everyone we met with....learned from them all.
We position things a certain way for youtube to get people to watch....but rarely are there any coaches or methods that are all that much different
I would say 90% of the time we are saying basically the same things....
@@CogornoGolf Thanks! And the positioning is working on me :)
Eric, I didn't understand what was said about Bubba and his swing? "He plays a curve" was the comment.Why isn't that the solution for all of us, that is, determine what your natural ball flight is and allow for it. As well, how does Bubba hit that big slice so consistently? Great visual on the ground by the way.
Hey!
The general idea of this video is there are some things that pair together in a golf swing that would lend itself more toward straight shots.
Then there are parts that work together that lend more toward curve.
I generally like to see the average golfer play some type of curve and hit every shot that way to build in a pattern.
As for bubba.....that would be called TALENT :)
I’m wondering if there is such a thing as a hybrid release. Both happening at the same time. The twist to help square the club head at impact and the throw to promote a rehinging of the wrists in the followthru.
100%....thats REALLY what is happening for most people....some combination of both
@@CogornoGolf That's a loaded response lol I know you've done other videos that deal with release, I'm wondering if you could do one in the near future that would deal specifically with what this gentleman mentioned, that most of the time people are doing some sort of combination, throw and twist? I also know you have done videos dealing with feeling things from a trail arm or lead arm perspective. I am in the lead arm camp, precisely because I am a left-handed person that plays golf right-handed. It is impossible for me almost to feel things from a trail arm perspective. I think maybe that's why the twist feels more "natural" to me then the throw motion, as well as matching up better to me as an upright swinger. Thoughts?
Fascinating video!!! I always dismissed this throw release because I assumed it was not as effective ... BUT is the trend on the PGA Tour to use this throw release? I notice that Tiger and Rory presumably use this throw release. I have always swung the club so that my right wrist is cupped (extended) as I approach the finish. All things equal, which release is better? I don't mind changing my swing if it's probably going to make me strike the ball better.
Great questions.
Which is better....chocolate or vanilla?
Depends who you ask :)
Neither is better---variations of each will work for a player depending on their club face angle, torso positions and other relevant factors in the downswing
eric
this is great info superb
as so many instructors may force you into one of these release patterns
thanks I think Im gonna visit bethlehem
can you describe the difference in the divot patterns that kevin alluded to
thank you
Thanks, Richard! Was fun for us!
what would you like to know about divots?
@@CogornoGolf kevin said there was a difference in the divot patterns based on release
can you elaborate ie (path depth divot etc )
it might be helpful to analyze on course correction and for training
thanks in advance for your time
Kevin's explanations are awesome! Now I think I am understanding why I have to accept that I have a flattish Matt Kuchar style one plane swing, and not try to adopt swing advice designed for more upright swing plane hitters. I have a question for you Eric: It seems to me that the Pure Swing Precision Impact device that bows your right wrist back and keeps it bowed through impact, is NOT going to work with a one plane flat style swing. Kevin's channel has an outstanding video on hitting soft pitch shots, suitable for one plane people like me, where he advocates letting the left wrist break down after impact, the opposite of the move using the Precision Impact device. Please comment Eric?? I'd so appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.
Thanks for watching, Arnold!
A lot of golfers, whether they have a more upright swing or more of a flat swing, have their right wrist throwing too much too soon (extension to flexion). In that case, they would need to feel like their right wrist stays bent back essentially forever.
If you can learn to keep your right wrist bent back forever....it's easy to learn to throw it at the correct time, no matter your swing style :)
Hope this helps!
@@CogornoGolf Great answer Eric! You made it very clear to me what I need to do. My wife bought me the device for Xmas, can't wait to use it. Your channel is outstanding and I hope you have an awesome 2023!
Excellent. Don’t know what I am but my ball flight is high straight with all irons and been told I come over the top. Ware on my club face is right of center. Should I use throw or swist since now my feeling is I am flipping at impact losing distance with each #iron? Any suggestions?
Hey John! I would have to see your swing on video to answer this for you. Check out www.cogornogolf.com so we can do that if you dont get it sorted
Hi Eric, love the detailed lesson, can I just ask, what would be the clubface position be at last parallel relative to the differing techniques, I image the top would be pointing more up for the twist release. Cheers Eric
Thats exactly correct, Lee! Thanks!
Mop
I wish there would have been time for Roman to follow up on his divot comment. Do you know what he was going to say the different types of divots produced by the two styles?
Hey-thanks for the message! I'm not sure...will have to catch up with him!
ERIC & Kevin Roman, great video. This really helps us to distinguish these two different release patterns. Did Mike Austin use the “Throw” pattern? Definitely the pattern of Mike Malaska, he gives that exact same pitcher throw demo. I get the idea there is less forearm rotation in the “Throw Release” from your discussion on the logo on the shaft stays visible. What I didn’t understand was does this completely eliminate arm rotation or just in this hitting zone you covered in the video? What is slightly confusing is the fact that there appears to be more players who follow the forearm rotation in the backswing and follow through but also have adopted the flap or throw release in the post impact / follow through part of the swing. So they are successfully blending the lead wrist extension/ cupping with body rotation & forearm/ arm rotation into the follow through. But in their pattern there is forearm rotation (lead arm supination from last parallel) required to square the club face into impact. They are also holding the trail wrist angle into impact but then releasing it through / post impact.
Question Kevin Roman, do you see players mix and matching these different patterns? Namely twisters adopting the release only part of the throw release in the through swing but holding the twist pattern in backswing & downswing into impact? Myles
How does this to compare to your video about 'what all good ball strikers do...' ? in that video you seem to favor a release where there is forearm supination, but here you are favoring the throw release. I am getting a bit of a disconnect between the two videos.
Hey Alex!
It seems to me like in this video we are presenting two options. Not sure I claimed to prefer either.
Every swing has supination. That's a measured fact.
Pro golfers have more supination than ams. Measured fact.
There is supination in both the throw and twist.
If someone has not enough supination I want them to have more.
If someone has too much supination I want them to have less.
Hope that helps-all the best!
Eric Cogorno Golf thanks Eric definitely helps! I am enjoying your channel, great content.
Eric does this not conflict a bit with Marty's Impact Snap instruction?
Hey man!
I would say Marty/Impact Snap would be adding more unhinging and supination (twist)
Which is how I have always released it....and a lot of hall of famers!
Neither right or wrong....chocolate and vanilla both good. Just different ingredients required.
Gotcha..Thanks!!
Who would you say uses the twist style on tour? Bubba, Phil, Vijay when he was out there, maybe Reed...can't think of many others. Feels a lot more comfortable though
Yup...those guys....bunch of guys do! Check out some slow mo DTLs of your favorite swings....I bet you find a bunch!
Nice video. Thank you
Appreciate it....our pleasure!
Holy s@@@ the difference between a scoop and the early throw was a major aha moment!
When he was showing the throw method it was reminding me of the Malaska move
Yep!
I have been playing for 35+ years mostly twist and I think it just evolved to the throw. This year I have been trying the big muscle turn swing and went from 75-85 to having to struggle to break 90. I have no t hing at this point but a great short game. What he was saying really hit home after so long of swinging its almost impossible to change. Do I just start over at this point
Hey!
I would really need to see your swings on video and know more info to be able to suggest specific things for YOU.
Feel free to join www.cogornogolf.com if you dont get it sorted so you can send me your swings and I can give you specific advice!
Magic, thank you!
Appreciate it! Our pleasure!
Same for driver? Thanks
Yup!
Thanks Eric
So if i understood that correctly does that mean taller golfers are more apt to twist release and shorter golfers throw throw release?
Perhaps...would have to do a study on that.
Vertical swing plane is what we are looking at here....I think that could be a LOW or HIGH angle regardless of height.
My right shoulder always drops I guess to get the club started on the inside but I seem to hit my shots 2 clubs shorter than most. Any suggestions on dipping the right shoulder?
Hey Pat! You have to figure out WHY its dropping (is there something going on earlier to cause it.....like too much slide, left hip getting too high too early, etc) and fix that.
I would have to see a video of your swing to say for sure....if you find a good coach to work with they should be able to help.
When my trail shoulder drops, it because I turned my head too soon to watch my ball flight. I am also rushing my swing. Yes, a lot goes on before the shoulder drop.
I think this would lead to flipping the club through at impact. Maybe not if you can keep your posture. Im trying to learn coming from the inside and bowing the wrist on the downswing to square the face. I guess stick with one and master it.
Yessir!
This should explain things more
ruclips.net/video/Nwz6Yrr9SrI/видео.html
@@CogornoGolf watched the video. That explained a lot. Definitely link this video with the other one cause it could mess ppl up. Thanks again
It's a weird feeling I always suffered from a flip...essentially tho, is this release a flip but I just throw it later? Instead of by my right leg? Same motion, just different timing and more rotation?
Yup
I explain it in more detail here: ruclips.net/video/Nwz6Yrr9SrI/видео.html
Great video 👍
Appreciate it!
Where can I get alignment rods with an arc?! Awesome
Good question! I'm not sure...will have to do some googling....they are great visual!
Eric Cogorno Golf I have been using a pool noodle for some time now. It really helps. But those rods with the arc would be ♨️♨️♨️
Ryan Brock they are swing arc made by perfectputter.com
Does anyone know where you can buy the alignment stick that attaches to the club head?
Type in "Magnetic Lie Angle Tool" on Google and you'll have some good options to check out!👍
Hi Eric, thanks for the video. I'm I'm fan of mehlhorn and Bobby Shave teachings. Was on Kevin's Instagram where he posted videos of mehlhorn hitting balls dtl. I was wondering what kind of release mehlhorn was if u could give me some feedback that would be great. Thanks again!
Hey Jordan!
Thanks for the message-I do not know as I have never seen his swing....will have to check it out sometime! All the best
This is the release everybody should try struggling with consistency. I moved from 22 to 14 HC
I just imagine I slap the ball with my flat hand really hard. No more face rotation through the hitting area.
Love it!
Does the trow release add too much loft and cause high shots. ?
Not if you dont do it too early
does your left wrist break after you hit the ball? sorry dumb question!
Yup!
Kevin is so correct about lie angles. I have an older set of Titleist AP2 that are Titleist Spec +1 upright and I have my current set of Mizunos at Mizuno Spec -2 flat. And in the era of my Titleist Clubs, Titleist Spec was already 2 more upright than Mizunos Spec( big tall American's versus shorter Japanese was always my guess), so the actual difference in my new Mizunos is that they are 5 degrees flatter. When I came back to the game 18 months ago, I re-taught myself this newer mostly throw release versus my old twist and when I take out my old X-Stiff staffed Titleist clubs for a few hits at the range to see if my elbows have improved enough to hit these heavy shafts, it is just hysterical how much hook I put on the ball given how upright they are.
Love it
So well said about 'roll and play the curve' vs. throw to 'play straight.' I feel like I play a constant blend of both of these which drives me a little crazy sometimes but I do see the benefit of both for certain shots. For example, I personally cannot find a more accurate way to hit a wedge straight, good contact and close than Sam Goulden's square to square type of swing on my approaches and I've always had a tendency to use my body/rotate more anyway. In contrast when I started playing longer courses in my uni team as a mature student at only 5ft 9in, I'm surrounded by guys half my age who roll the sh** out of their release and the sound, speed, flow, distance and conservation of energy throughout the round is remarkable! I prefer this extra distance for my tee shots and second shots on par 5s. When I roll it's less accurate but the extra distance knocks a bunch of strokes off because I'm hitting more wedges, close to the green and can fall back on the very accurate 'square to the arc swing'. The problem is when you have a bad day and your shape changes. I think golf as a smaller guy isn't really talked about much (might make a good video) but for me to be in contention I've gotta 'let it go' somewhat. Not to mention although I keep fit, if I play more body rotation/accuracy and square release it can feel like a lot of physical work by the 17th hole when you have to attack to win and there are 20mph winds on a Scottish links course playing in the cold in October. Also sometimes a very square release feels like I'm relying on body structure to 'hit the ball for me' but I think rolling helps sensitivity and skill acquisition in my hands which is useful when I have to play more creative shots after missing and ending up in a bad spot.
Sorry for the long post Eric, I just find your videos really thought provoking but hope this helps others think about this. It just seems to me that maybe to some extend different releases are needed for different shots but maybe I would improve faster if I stuck to one like in your video summary. What are your thoughts on mixing it up like this having coached a lot of juniors and adults over the years?
Hey man! Thanks for the kind words....probably too in depth of a convo we would need to have for a youtube comment.
Check out www.cogornogolf.com I can spend more time with ya there talking through this
Hey Eric. Thought I'd just put it out there but totally understand. The site looks great! Currently with the lockdown and university, funds are pretty tight but once I'm back to work I'll see you there! Looks like a fantastic resource and I honestly think you are a fantastic coach. I feel you minimise cryptic jargon and give a really good concise but balanced overview/insight between ideas rather than a narrow focus, which is why I think this series, distilling different instructors' views is fascinating and really showcases your strengths. Wonderful! See you at Cogornogolf soon. Thank you for what you do.
Loved the video! Embraced my draw at the range and hit it great! I've been following you for a long time and it appears my swing is very similar to yours. Ie I suffer from the same problems as you do like early extension and missing left with over draw and hooks. I've been a single digit handicapper for 20 years but sometimes things go south. My question is what is one or two things you go to mid round or on the range to mitigate the hook and get back on track?
Hey man!
Yes that is us!
1. More left side of body rotation(could be left leg, left hip, left pec, left shoulder)
2. Feeling the club work through impact on a lower angle (vertical swing plane) and more left with left arm pulling left past impact
3. Less roll with release (back of left elbow to target longer or face feeling more up to sky
Some form of that if I'm over hooking.
hi joshua ... here's my two cents ... it all depends on the position of the sternum in relation to the ball ... keep it a tiny lil' bit back and the face will start twisting a lil' earlier ... = pull/draw ... move the sternum a tiny bit ahead of the ball and the face will start closing later ... = push/fade ... try it next time on the range and think of sternum position / spine angle and nothing else ... 10 minutes later you'll have the feeling ... :) :) :) hope it will help
well done!
Thanks!
Great...
Thanks!
Seems like this flip type release would be hard to consistently manage your low point.
Hey Scott! Just gotta get the timing right (like everything else)
More on that here: ruclips.net/video/Nwz6Yrr9SrI/видео.html
Thanks Eric! Really appreciate your videos
Would you expect to get more distance with the twist style vs throw style and conversely, more accuracy with throw vs. twist?
Hey Nicholas! I dont think either would produce more distance across the board.
Generally speaking less curve with throw vs twist.....but that doesnt necessarily mean more accurate. But yes-if I had to pick one for more accuracy I would get the clubface more tilted down during downswing and more throw.
As a thrower--believe me, you can still curve the ball substantially :p
No doubt! Just talking generals here!
Muscles only contract(PULL). Golf swing can be a PUSH(throw) with hands, or PULL
with clubhead speed generated by deceleration of proximal causing acceleration of distal
as TPI breaks down the golf swing to real science.
Thanks for the feedback, Mikal!
This was the missing link! More Horizontal shaft/less twist, so you can throw motion!
:)
I've been trying to understand this forever. It's the Mike Malaska move.
yup
@@golfermanjim5622 YES
Actually Jim Hardy was teaching it 30 years ago. His book “the Release
“. Malaska used to teach mor of the twist when he was with Flick I believe .
Hope this helps! I dont think this is Malaskas move....or Hardys move.....or anyones move.
Its just a movement within the golf swing that pairs well with other parts.
Not everyone throws. Not everyone does the twist style. Neither right or wrong. Have to pair the other parts together.
@@CogornoGolf I so appreciate your particular style, referring to parts and patterns, and matching them up to get what works for a particular swing, be it upright or flat. Between this and some other videos, your information is making a world of difference in my game. Even though I have broken 90 maybe a half dozen or so times in the past, it's been quite awhile, but I feel that 85 or possibly better may be in sight at some point in the not too distant future. After getting fit for a new set of clubs a few months back, it's been a little bit of a struggle. But just in the last couple weeks, I have seen marked improvement (you probably have seen my comments on other videos). The other day, if I had used a bit better course management and sunk a couple putts I would have easily broken 90 (92, and my wife and I play the ball down, no improving lies, no mulligans and no gimmies no matter how close. We play it straight up no matter what, only way to know accurately what you shoot). Thank you Eric!
Does this look like an out to in swing path to anyone else?
Yep, my swing usually 2-3* in to out on my trackman
Ohhh my God....He says Ben Hogan's release was like that. That is why is so hard to learn the golf swing, bad advice from many wannabes out there. Eric..I'm not talking about you, you know I respect you a great deal.
Thanks for the feedback and kind words. Best to find a good coach to work with and identify the top 1-3 priorities for you and stick with them....that way any other advice won't effect ya :)
I hope people who watch this video know that the information is straight from the work of Jim Hardy and Chris O'Connell even thought it was not credited. The single reference to Chris doesn't make it clear where this info is from. It's almost verbatim from copyrighted books and videos.
Thanks for the feedback, Harry!
Thats my fault-working to fix that.
Jim posted message I saw on Facebook and I responded to him to tell him the same thing.
I will make sure it is in all of the descriptions of the videos and add text to video.
Wasn't trying to present the info as our own, I had thought we (Kevin) mentioned them during. We filmed 3 videos back to back and I think he mentioned more in first which I should have realized wouldn't be in all of them.
All the best.
@@CogornoGolf Thanks Eric. "The Release" and the "The Release" videos by at www.planetruthgolf.tv are a great resource and build on Jim Hardy's several earlier books starting with "The Plane Truth". I'm sure you are familiar with Jim's work. Thanks for replying to my message. Harry
Mike Malaska/David Duval release
👊Thanks so much for watching!
Great stuff but did Kevin Roman imply that hogan did the throw release? I'd have to strongly disagree. For sure hogan has a more stable release but there was still twisting. Otherwise no need to fix his hook with his "secret" the cupped wrist at the top. Just looking at his finish. Concentration drill and coleman and cano videos also support he didnt use a throw release. The very short pitch swings in the cano video is also very clear no throw but roll. Ed sullivan show clip is not throw release more like roll - stable - roll.
Of course in reality there is SOME throw and SOME twist....in EVERY swing.
@@CogornoGolf hi Eric a Happy New Year, love the vid from today. Back on this topic of hogan throw vs twist. Yes there might some proportion of both on a minority of swings but still with a clear dominant pattern. Consider Hogans flatter address with hardly any left wrist ulnar deviation. Kevin here says high hands = more twist release. Though I think its not the high hands but that high hands commonly have left wrist less/ulnar deviation at address. This match up (no ulnar at setup = having) results in twist release. This setup was designed imo so Hogan could exactly have impact shaft plane return to his setup shaft plane.
Where Hogan looks like throw is in the follow through but its just because he has setup his left forearm restriction to prevent club face turning over (Bryson calls it his swing govenor and why bryson is also a twister). Hogan's no roll, held off look after p8 into his final pose thus very likely not a result of a throw release.
Open to thoughts on this for sure
@@CogornoGolf at first i didnt give this too much thought as Kevin seemed to indicate either or. A hybrid of the 2 warrants consideration. If you ever do a video on this, would be great. Thanks Eric
Scoopy LOL I can see how this could ruin some players beyond return . :)
Thanks for the feedback!
is this the closed clubface type of playing . maybe like julie inkster.
Why the cupped wrist so soon after impact resulting in the butt of the club remaining close to the body? Is that for feel purposes only? Your other videos want to get long after impact, with the butt as far away from you as you can.
You can make any of the patterns work! Finding what works best for your swing is the key. That's where a good coach comes in!
But the question is - for the throw release (which is similar to a huge putting stroke where the club face is always perpendicular to the swing arc), why not position the shaft through the sweet spot (like a putter) which would then make hitting the sweet spot much much easier.
Would have to talk with some clubfitters/designers on that one!
👍
Eric go see Carl Rabito
Would love to!
Congrats you’re 16 years behind Jim Hardy, Chris O’. and their Plane Truth Academy. This overview should kindly provide those references from you Eric as a pro. At least one of you made some reference to Chris, the mentor. There is much more to the “horizontal throw” and roll “twist” release than is contained here. For those of you that are interested in learning from the source..it’s not Malaska.. go see Plane Truth and read the books and watch their instructional videos. That’s the plain truth.
Thanks for the feedback...I believe Kevin references them and thats where he learned from in coming videos.
All the best!
This seems so contrary to everything taught. But I suck anyways so why not try something different. 🤪
:)
Eric , why not just let the guy explain the release instead of 20 minutes how it relates to your game?
Sorry about that! Thanks for watching!
i can't agree with he early sqaure position. if you hit a few wedge shots with your shadow on your target line, or just to the right of it, and focus on swinging the club from in to in, you will see how the clubhead, suddenly accelerates late on in the hitting area. the club has to accelerate to go from in to in. you will be able to get the feel of that straight away; but anyone who doesn't, can get the feel of swinging in to in by hitting a few little chips with a 3 iron. the only way you can get any feel or control, with the 3 iron, is to swing from in to in.
@Roenie's Gaming Empire well, as the video explains earlier on, the clubface remains square in relation to swing arc, thru the swing. so, it was slightly surprising that he should talk of shutting down the face thru the hitting area; but "in to in" does not involve any attempt to square up the face, or allowing the left wrist flip thru impact. when bill mehlhorn, who pioneered in to in, demonstrates the movement of the left hand and arm thru the shot, in his rare and audio interrupted video, he demonstrates why it is unnatural to focus on angle of the clubface thru the hitting area. and, he don't shut the face down while he does it. the simple fact is that you have to apply force to both sides of the shaft with the left hand.
Thanks for the feedback!
I'm guessing neither of you were pitchers??
I was :)
As a retired pro golfer in retirement I was always a twist action type player but very erratic, therefore I took lessons at retirement, from my local pros based on a one plane throw release thinking this was a good idea to help. This screwed me up even more so, totally un natural and week in power and strike, however a hi-bread swing that is seldom taught, which considering most of the top players use in some form of hi-bread, is much better. I have now achieved this with far greater consistency, much improved but with none of the throw release lack of power and contact weakness. To me their are three main actions not two ( Excluding Stack and tilt and single plane ) so I have to give this video a thumbs down but appreciate your insights on the other two.
Glad to hear you're heading in the right direction my friend!
I’ve got to quit watching swing videos. I suffer from spending to much time trying to determine if it’s a body or arm swing and whether it benefits or contradicts what I’m trying to achieve.
:) Find a good coach to work with!
www.cogornogolf.com is where we coach!
@@CogornoGolf I’ve been to several coaches all highly recommended in my area, (not by me). Just give this some thought Hank Haney highly thought of, fired by Tiger, because the student knew more than the teacher... what is a good coach?
Haha
A good coach is one who makes you better.....
But of course that requires a good student as well :)
Cant help someone who doesn't want (or accept) the help
@@CogornoGolf Details my man. Your obviously correct but who wants the obvious we all want the unusual... Something you and Milo seem to have!
At some stage are any of these guys going to mention Jim Hardy's name? This guy, Mike Malaska? None of them ever mentioned this before Hardy wrote his books? Hmm..I think if you are repeating someones original work verbatim but never mentioning the source its bad form. In academia it's called plagiarism. The funny thing in the comments below is people say "Oh yeah, this is what Mike Malaska teaches too." Ahh yeah, he's another one that doesn't reference his sources and pretends everything is his own original thoughts. We're reading the same books you are guys....
Thanks for the feedback! Kevin was sure to mention Jim and Chris in the first video of this series.
I also made sure to include their names and info giving them credit in the descriptions below the videos if you take a look there.
Kevin had discussions with Jim on this-all good!
All the best!
@@CogornoGolf Ok great Eric, apologies I missed those references. Sam
sam I Obviously you have barely watched Mike Malaska videos. He often goes out of his way to point out that he is not
teaching a "Malaska" swing for there is nothing new in golf instruction, rather a constant reaching back or in a different
direction to find better answers for different golfers. As he has said, one can find instruction in books from a Century or more ago that mirrors much of what is claimed to be "new" today. Get informed yourself before spouting off about a subject you clearly have only minimal knowledge of. Wendell R