Is Snapback Overrated?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 23 авг 2023
- Are polyester strings really the best? Is there such thing is too much spin? Are polyester strings really the best for control? Is snapback the enemy of consistency?
If you use my affiliate links Roger Federer will reveal his deepest secret to you in a dream and it will be the most enchanted experience you've every had but you won't remember it when you wake up. Only your sleeping self will remember.
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @tenncom
Affiliate Links and Discount Codes:
SwingVision: swing.tennis/r/TENNCOM
Grapplesnake USA: invi.tt/AKZQ
Toroline (TENNCOM for 20% off): toroline.refr.cc/tenncom
ReString ZERO (TENNCOM10 for 10% off): shoprestring.com/?ref=tenncom
Katana Sports Copper Tape (TENNCOM1 for 10% off ): katana-sportz.com
Courtside Sports: www.courtsidesports.com/
How Can You Support TennCom?
-Direct donation via PayPal: www.paypal.com/donate/?hosted...
-Super Thanks beside the "Like" button
-Check out our Consultation Services: tenncom.media/shop
tenncom.media/
IG: / tenncom.media
FB: / tenncom.media
Sources for this video:
Lendl on Strings: • Lendl, Becker, McEnroe...
Study on String Patterns: twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...
String Comparison Tool: twu.tennis-warehouse.com/lear...
*Grapplesnake USA only ships to the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Mexico. Cannot ship to Europe or Asia unfortunately.
**Regular priced racquet must be valued at $175 CAD or higher. 
Спорт
Do you think there's such thing as TOO MUCH snapback?
I'm thinking of trying VS natural gut with Zero as the cross string, for my next setup to increase snapback, right now my cross string is ALU rough!
Yes, Iso Cream, T1 Ghost wire are examples.
I do think there can be too much of anything and we are seeing a trend towards maxamizing spin in anyway we can. I think you brought up a very good point. We might do ourselves a favor and go for a middle ground in a hybrid for most rec level players.
@@prophetmargin7497 that'll be an awesome test to see if you get more spin from the snap of Zero or the grip of Rough.
@@b.lakeberg7456 @tenncom I played like a decade with Technifibre TGV(closest to Gut imho) . Since this year I do setup this in hybrid with Luxilon Alupower rough in the crosses and I can tell you one thing... My spin potential is a lot higher then before and I'm also able to hit any ball full on. With the TGV in FB I tend to hold-in on my shots since it was overpowered and had no effort in creating pace. Now with this hybrid I still have lots of power from the TGV but also a lot of spin from the Luxilon, sometimes it seems I can't miss a shot... The downside is that my BH now drops shorter and also fly's when I don't swing it hard enough. Another downside is that the TGV go's to the bin in like 1.5 hours off play, and I use the 1.30 version...
For me this setup works perfect and it shows me I need to work on my backhand to get more spin/swing ... Also need a sponsor since I play like 4 to 6 hours a week :)
Depth is so underrated. Go out and with your hitting partner, try to hit 10 shots in a row each, beyond the service line and you'll see how hard this actually is.
Do that in a tournament and almost no one will beat you in most levels.
10 shots in a row during a rally, or separately?
20 shot rally, 10 shots each without missing or hitting the ball into the service box. And without babying it, these are shots that hou'd hit in a match in order for the opponent to be uncomfortable.@@rbarreira2
Is depth really underrated? 😄
With amateurs, I'd say yes.@@erikstam1
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the subject, and congrats on winning a tournament!
Thanks Javi!
This is another superb video.
Beckett's vídeo on the Djokovic racquet from a few months ago got me to try a couple of Head Liquidmetal Radical MP (standard and Tour versions), customized to 350g and 360g respectively/both at around 32.5-33cm balance. One has cheap Head Synthetic Gut, the other with Luxillon ALU Power, both at 58lb.
The results totally changed my game _and_ performances. Almost like _'that',_ my UE % dropped alarmingly and the confidence to hit deep went up accordingly just by swinging at say, 75% of what I did previously.
And this is from using various earlier versions of the Babolat Aeropro Drive using Pro Hurricaine and/or RPM Blast.
Basically, Beckett saved my game and this video + Lendl's comments re: Djokovic, carry a lot of weight!
hahaha thanks I'm glad I could kind of help but credit goes to you for actually improving from a gear change
Great setup !
Which did you prefer the SynGut or the ALU Power? I've been finding I much prefer the feel of syngut on my cx200 tour and the spin loss is minimal
@@froot11 That´s a good question and one I think that I found out yesterday: it was only one match but I actually prefered the cheaper Head SynGut (which is in the Radical MP _standard_ version)
I switched 1/2-way through, picked up the Radical MP _Tour_ version with the ALU Power and it felt....muted(?).
However, this did have 8g of lead in the hoop-sides, bringing it up to 362g static and I reckon the balance was out.
It just felt strange.
Perhaps Im over-analyzing but I preferred the Standard with modifications: 10g lead in handle; 10g lead at 3 and 9 o´clock; Head Hydrosorb grip; one overgrip; one string-dampener: 345g static-weight total).
Need to test with other strings for final confirmation.
@@julestennisuniverse It does feel great and _very_ stable.
However, there is a downside to everything: you really have to be in the groove to get the most out it. I started double-faulting badly the 3rd game in and it took almost a set-and-a-half to get my technique back on-track.
The racquet can be a bomber on serves and very stable and direct on either FH or BH side.
Absolutely _zero_ elbow or shoulder pain with this setup.
(volleys: the smaller, lower-powered Prestige Classic 600 and Liquidmetal Prestige Mid are better)
I’ve been playing a lot with a Bolt 98L, and my experience has been quite different. I actually find that control is great- probably because I’m able to string poly at 52 lbs (Grapplesnake Cube extra sharp hybrid) without arm pain vs the 40lbs or so with other frames and still get great spin and power. Also it’s got a high swing weight and twist weight so it’s really stable.
I'm honestly very glad you are finding success with that racquet. I really want Bolt to do well as a company because they think different. You never know what could happen next.
I have a question. Do you think that it would be a good idea to put restring zero in the mains and head MLT in my crosses.
Yes that would be good, but I also thing VElocity mains ReString crosses
I am not sure about Snapback. But I do think the string shape other than round (square, pentagon, hexagon, etc.) bits the ball more but at the same time adds another variation. With shaped poly, it might be harder to control the depth.
Interesting video and very important topic. Depth is everything! Maybe I need to switch to a hybrid lol
Thanks! I think we are definitely going to be seeing more hybrid content on this channel.
I recently ordered Restring Zero and am looking forward to trying it out based on another one of your videos. I notice that I like a string the most just before it dies and loses both snap back and tension. I like a longer dwell for that good pocketing sensation and a predictable launch angle. So you made me think that maybe a lot of snap back is not what I am looking for. That being said, I recently strung with Super Smash Orange 1.28 at 47 and found it a little stiff but liked way it played even when it was new and the snap back was at its peak. So I am anxious to try the Restring Zero and am thinking about stringing it at 43 and maybe a couple pounds lower in the crosses. What are your thoughts? Can I get the spin and pocketing I am looking for with a predictable launch angle?
I would recommend increasing tension with Zero. You'll get above average ball pocketing in even in the mid 50's. My concern for you is that the launch angle is high. At 43lbs you'll be spraying the ball (my guess). I think you might like something like RPM Power or Grapplesnake Paradox Pro which offer a lot of ball pocketing and ultra predictable launch angles. They also have the crispy, grippy feel that you get with worn out polys.
@@TennCom thank you! I received 5 sets of Zero today so I will try stringing it a little higher and see how that goes. I will also try the Paradox Pro I have been wanting to try some of the Grapplesnake strings as well. Thank you for your insight. At some point I would like to pick your brain on a new racquet. You video on the Pure Strike VS really interested me.
One message that I try and relay as much as possible is that the racket doesn't swing itself. I think in our pursuit of max spin potential/snapback we tend to leave other important bits on the proverbial table lol. For us average Joes focusing on technique, tactics and consistency gives a far greater benefit than maximizing spin potential.
On the pro side forget technique; it's all tactics, execution and consistency. I think we're just coming out of an era in which Nadal and his spinny game has been so front and center that it forced others to adapt to the same tactics but perhaps forgetting that there's only one Nadal (and his unmatched physicality)!
Maybe that's why soft polys are popular right now especially with us average Joes because we keep getting injured; we emulate our pros but can't really handle the equipment 🤷🏽♂
So is snapback overrated? Hell yeah, but only if you sacrifice other aspects of the game for it.
I think at the rec level we also over-value our money shots. Say we hit 2-3 big forehand winners with huge topspin but the rest of our shots are dinks. We say "I need poly" for those 2-3 shots, when in reality, we might benefit more from nylon during every other shot we hit that day
💯
I personally can never think of a situation on court where I’ve thought: you know what I need? More poly (spin) 😂@@TennCom
Signum pro triton has been available for years in my country (Chile). I have never tried it but it has caught my attention. What we don't have is signum pro yellow jacket though
Ugh oops! They have the wackiest distribution
The way you put is actually eye-opening. It only makes sense, that the snapback adds variation to the ball depth, as part of the energy from the incoming ball is converted from lateral into rotational movement and that not in a consistent manner. The conversion ration could depend hugely on some microscopic details like whether the centre of the ball hits between two mains or straight onto a main, how is the said main's edge rotated towards the ball and so on.
Anecdotally I also noticed way more depth consistency (and way less topspin) with a hybrid setup (multi mains, poly crosses).
Another example of a depth-consistent player with low spin would be Medvedev.
I also find it amazing that he can control is depth so well from so far back too.
Um i like a lil spider tack light on my strings set up for lil more pocketing but not in the center of the sweet spot, the outer edge of the sweet spot
HAhah, keeping it real. "What did we learn here? I'd say....not that much" lol. Great video man, I've had this suspicion about snapback for a while now.
hahaha thanks man!
I've always been scared to use 18x20, but now you've got me thinking it might b worthwhile to give it a try
String it a bit looser and it won't be a problem!
Thanks brother, really enjoy your vids!@@TennCom
If you put Fingerease Guitar String Lubricant or mineral oil on natural gut while having poly on the cross. The snapback is insane.
You need to apply the oil every three playing sessions, but it will absorbed into the gut overtime and protect it
I as a vegan wouldn’t use it,
But I would love to see a lab grown meat version of natural got at affordable price. I would definitely switch to it real quick.
The oils I mentioned above will also work good on a full bed of poly. It can bring life back to dead poly
I don't think that would allowed at top level, for example, they banned silicone spray. I would also used lab grown gut hahaha
TRIGGERED!
I really want it largely for spin but also durability. Reducing friction between strings decreases destruction of string on string contact.
I also think the idea of depth being so important for players of the past is also partly due to them really not having spin as a dimension of their tennis to the degree today's players do. The way today's players hit was not physically realistic in their time and keeping players deep was probably only achieved through depth in a linear sense. You can achieve depth AND spin now. Maybe some players use spin to control margin more, maybe some just don't balance spin/depth well.
I think the ideas proposed are fair and interesting but I don't want to take it so far as to think snapback is the reason people aren't hitting deep or struggle to, even.
I think the ideas are more applicable at some levels than others. Specifically for those who aren't taking a proper rip on every ball, as they won't even see the spin benefits. However, I'm also finding those players benefit from Zero the most because it gives them spin on shots where other strings wouldn't.
I agree, I felt this really strongly with PolyTour Rev
I just tried it for the first time yesterday and its pretty crazy how much snap there is
The issue is I can't get any consistent response or actual spin out of this string. Bizzare, feels like String2String friction is low but also String2Ball friction is even lower. I strung at 48 in my radical, maybe too low? Absolutely hated it hahah@@TennCom
Dang. That quote "I think that depth is one thing which the younger players don't appreciate or maybe don't understand enough." I'm honestly guilty about that. I'm thinking of crossing my poly with a nice multifilament, maybe the x-one or nrg (since my poor ass can't afford to buy natural gut every week or so). Hopefully I get consistent and precise with the depth of shots too.
I think it would be fun experiment to see which you like better, multi mains or multi crosses. TBH i think its even fine to use a syn gut like Head PPS just to get the effect.
@@TennCom For sure! I'll try to do the opposite set-up on my other racquet. I'm looking forward to see which one I would prefer, and how different it will be from one another.
@@angelogarcia6590let me know how it goes!
@@angelogarcia6590 you might want to experiment with that thought a bit. In my experience, nat gut lasts so much longer vs any multi I’ve tried, that it’s actually cheaper for me to hybrid with gut instead of multi.
A great syn gut that outlasts all multis I’ve tried is Gosen OGSM. And it’s super cheap. I prefer OGSM for crosses vs nat gut for mains.
For reference, I’m ~8 UTR or 5.0 NTRP.
Have you tried a reel of Isospeed Baseline strings? I think it's the cheapest reel on tennis warehouse, definitely one to try out cause I love it.
no but I really want to try the Isospeed lineup!
Besides those TWU lab experiments, are there any real world videos demonstrating snapback?
I'll see if my camera can shoot fast enough to make one. I've mostly only seen photos and you can piece things together but I can see how that's not the most conclusive evidence.
What happened to Grapplesnake?
Very little mention of your previous top string?
Tour Sniper actually has kind of bad snapback. Its not very slippery at all which help it play immensely consistently, hence why I rank it number 1.
seems like every couple years, the industry introduces more and more variables. E.g. square and hexagon-shaped polys - how much does the shape impact spin? Many years ago, 18g was the thinnest string available. Now we see 19g and even 20g strings. Does the thickness also impact amount of spin? Love your channel and all videos related to tennis gear!
Thanks! I have not seen any studies that report a correlation between spin and gauge. My hunch is that thinner probably produces more spin and lower swing speeds and thicker produces more at higher swing speeds. But that's more about matching the flex of the string to the strength of the player, kind of like how better golfers/badminton players can hit harder with stiffer shafts, but weaker players can hit harder with softer shafts.
Super interesting video. I wonder, would it be ill advised to try to hit these super spinny balls deep? They'd probably be unplayable for the opponent, but, to your point, inconsistent
I think Rafa is actually a good example. His greatest weakness is lack of depth. When he drops it short it just sits up and his confidence tanks. When he gets it deep, only one man can beat him.
@@TennCom2017 Roger Federer
In my last hit, I was going for depth and i found that height was the biggest factor. When I hit the ball as hard as I could with as much topspin as I could, the ball would land short if the height of my ball was below 4 feet over the net. When I did the same, but increased the height to about 7ft, the balls bounced deep and because of the heavy (for me) spin, they were hard for my opponent to handle. I need to try this in matches when I'm afraid of hitting long.
I've been feeling the same way about a full bed of ReString Zero lately. Which strings would you put in the mains alongside Zero in the cross for a more predictable response? Any thoughts on putting multi in the mains?
I think multi mains would work, I used SIlver 7 Tour to calm things down and it worked great. Have moved on from that project since recording and have remember how damn good Grapplesnake Tour M8 is.
I don’t believe Djokovic would ever even try full poly considering he used a full bed of Multi (allegedly) when he first come on the tour
This is getting a little complicated - ie the snapback question you ask. Regarding Lendl's comments, I'll say that players today hit the ball much harder, and it's normal therefore to be harder to hit balls consistently deep as Lendl claims they did back in the day (not even sure if that's accurate - I watched Lendl/Wilander/Change/Courier etc. back in the day grind it out from the baseline, and I'm not sure I'd say they were hitting balls consistently deeper than the top players today). Also, while it's true that Novak used a hybrid set up and is all those things you mentioned, he is using a dense 95 sq inch racquet, and of course he's one of the GOATs, so hard to say it's based on his gut mains set up.
I linked the full video in the description, but Becker doesn't agree with Lendl at all. He thinks its more of a player to player thing.
Please also try normal kirschbaum max power beckett!
yes sir!
Lynx tour is snapping back so much it should be renamed: Lynx Snappy tour
What about tallent to send balls deep without the question of raquet. I think Novak would be able to play deep with any raquet. He got this gift and trained every day to do so.
Exactly. He could do it with any racquet as long as he had enough time to get used to the new racquet.
I recently switched from Restring Zero to Kirschbaum Super Smash and dont miss the "free" spin
Yeah, snapback is probably super overrated. We need high speed camera footage to prove that a string snapback motion is actually lifting up on the ball at rate explainable by slippery versus non-slippery. What I've been wondering more about is the difference a heavy yet soft racquet makes. The speed of the ball when it rebounds will be proportional to the incoming speed of the ball. A stiffer racquet redirects more of that incoming energy, whereas a softer racquet absorbs it more. Because of this difference, I think a heavy and soft racquet is going to be better at absorbing the pace, and while holding onto the ball longer, erase a lot of the incoming characteristics, and spit out a ball that's going to be more predictable based on your swing. A lighter and stiffer racquet where swing speed is making up for some of the weight is going to be more affected by the incoming ball speed and spin. I think that could explain why the old guard, who use heavier, and often softer racquets (think pt57) may have more consistent depth, whereas more modern players using lighter and stiffer racquets, might be more prone to variability.
I think this is especially true when dealing with big incoming pace. Fritz has one of the lightest setups and he looked like a 3.5 getting bullied when he lost to Sinner during IW. Similar thing kind of happened pre-cramps to Alcaraz when Djokovic was happily matching him on forehand cross courts.
@@TennCom all this talk makes me want to experiment with old head radical tours. Or do you think the gravity pro might be a more modern version of this? Heavy, check. Soft, check. Too hard for me to swing? ...Check
@@davelee6002 Solinco Whiteout as per Beckett is the closest atm to the old head radicals. I'll personally wait for the Blackout 18x20, might be an LM Radical feeling racquet with a modern blend!
@@mrmvprobas i hear that the 18x20 version "feels softer" so I'm eager to try it, but I'd say my 16x19 whiteout feels distinctly light, crisp and modern.
@@davelee6002 is it what you mainly use?
Yes, snapback is overrated, if only because most players (below 4.5 NTRP) don't hit hard enough to make make stiff poly strings move in the first place. Can there be too much of it for the rest? I tend to think not; it keeps them fireballs in! Either way, love Lendl's commentary at 0:54.
When Lendl speaks, I listen
So, it is still a give and take game. And there is no such thing as too much snap back. It is more about selecting a setup that fits your demands.
Modern Tennis is so much more focussed on spin than before. With it comes the ability to shoot really hard strokes, but with enough margin of error, because spin results in less predictibility.
And this increased margin of error cuts in the consistency.
So is more spin (more snap back) desirable? If spin ais your game, then Yes. If you more of a classic style then control might be your desire.
I switched from an 18/20 to a 16/19, my forehand needed more revs. I could not handle a natural gut string, too much power. I cannot even handle Ytex Quadro Twist (ful bed) which performed very well on an 18/20 racquet. Still too much power. So Zero it is now. Does it snap too much? No. Do I spray around some of my shots? Yes. But that is a price I can pay. The versatity of my shots is way better than before.
If there would be a short cut to be better in pro tennis, why not every pro would figgerd it out already ? It is still tallent, and effort players put in their game.
I think there are other things that Djokovic does which are a "short cuts" to being better, like being super rigorous with his diet, that other players don't do, when they easily could. This video is also more for rec players than pros (my audience consists of 0% pro players). Many rec players are so focused on spin like its the holy grail of victory, when it might not be the only thing you should focus on when buying strings.
I think its also down to lower weight, sw newer players that are playing with. Djoker gets depth and consistency due to his heavy racket. next gen forehand also is weaker compared to modern
why do you think younger players wont go heavier?
@@TennCom it’s just a general observation as Sw have dropped compared to past generation and pros usually stick to their equipment. I do feel they should go heavier. But for example if Alcaraz is playing the way he is with stock frame says something that maybe you don’t need heavier frames.
@@iceman1125 if he's indeed using stock as we are lead to believe, ill be quite surprised if his arm holds up. That a lot of shock being transmitted through the high RA no matter how you slice it.
I suspect it too, must have some weight under the grommet this is just a new way to sell the racket. @@TennCom
@@TennCom I have been saying this too. He has already had arm problems. I am convinced they are due to the light racket.
The spin potential on the RPM Blast rough 17 is 9.9?? That seems wild.
Yeah idk how practical those numbers are. I find I get more spin with ultra cable even though its ranked lower.
@@TennCom, ultra cable has 11.9 spin potential on TWU 😊
My experience is that "wild" is indeed the correct term. RPM Blast Rough or Ultra Cable in a full bed is indeed very spinny but the stringbeds become unpredictable for me because I will get vastly different amounts of spin based on how fast and precisely I hit. In effect, the spin production becomes too swing-sensitive. Using RPM Blast Rough as a cross for a gut or syngut, however, is a very predictable, good snap, long-lived setup. RPM Blast Rough isn't my favorite but it's not far off from great poly crosses for hybrid setups such as Head Hawk, Solinco Outlast, Luxilon Element, Alu Power Rough, and, strangely enough, Volkl V-Torque Tour.
@@Birluuu oops you are right my bad
wait, so u mean sampras woould completly kick alcaraz ass even on clay?
Wait, where did @tenncom say that?
I actually bet if Sampras had a modern racquet and strings that his kick serve would be the most insane thing on clay so it would bounce over tiny Alcaraz' head
:O@@TennCom
@@TennCom so ur saying, Sampras with blindfolds, pickleball racket and flippers, nowadays with 50 years old and bald, would pick up a prime 25 years old Alcaraz and wipe his muscular bum in a 6-0, 6-0, 6-1 even on clay?