Sonic himself seems to exist as something of an anomaly within his own world. He has no clear backstory and is capable of doing things that very few if any people should be capable of. Shadow is the only one who should be capable of Chaos Control, but Sonic can not only do it, but can pull it off with a fake emerald. Sonic is one of the few individuals with a unique super form that's not just their base form but glowing. Sonic in his base form is strong enough to defeat Perfect Chaos, but requires the positive Chaos Energy from the emeralds to defeat him without killing him. In some more recent examples, Sonic was able to escape Null Space despite Eggman's assertion that doing so should be impossible, and Sonic was able to travel freely back and forth between Cyberspace and reality despite Sage's explanation that organic life forms shouldn't be able to do that and not having an explanation for why Sonic can. The fact that Shadow was created to be the Ultimate Life Form and yet is slower than Sonic and can't consistently remain more skilled than him is actually insane. In addition to all his other feats, Sonic is fairly consistently able to outdo the guy created to be superior to every other living thing. As much as Sonic likes to act like he's just some guy who loves adventure, all the signs are pointing towards him being something quite special somehow. It goes beyond plot armor at this point, he's outright being written as doing things that should be impossible on purpose.
Shadow in SA2 implies that he is merely a copy based on the ultimate lifeform, and that the real ultimate lifeform might be Sonic. So through that lens, Sonic may just casually be the ultimate lifeform occuring in nature just like that.
Bro sonic is literally just a dude whos fast and likes adventures. Thats about as much backstory as he has and for some reason hes like the universes golden bo y.
@@marzipancutter8144 IIRC the actual quote went something along the lines of "I think I just figured it out. The ultimate life form... Sonic, I think it might be you.", though I didn't include that bit within my original post because it is largely just Shadow trying to make sense of the absurdity of what he's witnessing in the heat of the moment. Although Shadow spends the majority of the next two games with amnesia, he does eventually get his memories back and yet from then on simply refers to himself as the Ultimate Life Form and generally treats Sonic as an equal who has earned his respect and as a rival. It seems that whatever is actually going on with Sonic, even Shadow still doesn't know how to make sense of it, or if he does he's not exactly going out of his way to let the world know.
Sonic is just that guy,eggman found time gems?Sonic broke the speed barrier to time travel,eggman(somehow)tamed an omnipotent god of time?Sonic beat him in his own godhood with his raw speed,the literal concept of the end shows up?Sonic literally helped accelerate it's plan,only to say "nuh uh" last minute and one shot it with powers that were previously holding him back.
I'm thinking chaos was misinterpreted, chaos wasn't the god of destruction, he couldn't be, especially if sonic beat his strongest form outright in base. Maybe sonic is supposed to be the REAL chaos, the true God of destruction. Although he'd never use his power in such a way.
It is extremely worth to mention that in "Shadow the Hedgehog", when Shadow fights Sonic, he has (iirc) 6 chaos emeralds at his disposal compared to Sonic that only has 1. Still, great video!
I'm glad someone mentioned that. (And yes you're correct, he did have 6 Chaos Emeralds at that time.) If all 7 Emeralds together give someone enough power to take on a being like Solaris then each individual Chaos Emerald gives a huge buff in power, and Shadow had 6 when he fought Sonic so that put Sonic a substantial disadvantage.
@@AbdalSamad1 I was under the impression that simply having the chaos emeralds in your possession gives a passive amp in power regardless of weather or not any chaos powers (Such as Chaos Control for example) are used. Unless I'm mistaken and that's not how the emeralds work.
@TheMangekyo1011 Having emeralds in one possession doesn't automatically increase their power. One has to be able to harness Chaos energy and be able to use it as well, ironically not too many characters meet even one of those criteria. Which is why weaker characters can still get all 6 or even 7 emeralds stolen from them effortlessly by others. Chaos was a unique circumstance because he is directly connected to Chaos Emeralds/Master Emerald.
I want to point out that Shadow is always wearing hover jet boots that propel him forward in a skating motion. So while he can measure up to sonics run speed using them, he is never actually moving his limbs as fast as sonic is, so it is fair to call sonic significantly faster than him from the get go. This means that it is simultaneously valid to call Sonic the fastest thing alive by a wide margin and still consider Sonic and Shadow tied in speed on a pure mph basis. That said I do believe that Sonic later outpaces Shadow even by that metric.
im not 100% sure but i think it was somewhere in sonic battle in one of the descriptions its stated that shadow is as fast as sonic though with the assistants of the jet boots it makes him faster than sonic. that game also had actual stat points to compare each character and shadows running speed was 1 point higher than sonic. but idk just wanted to throw that out there for discussion
Tails: Is Shadow stronger than you Sonic? Sonic: Hm… Good Question. If Shadow were to use all his powers… it might be a little tough. Tails: Would you lose? Sonic: Nah, I’d win.
had i not known this was a convo with yuji and gojo prior to reading this, i would’ve thought this was actual sonic dialogue. him and gojo would either be good friends or annoy the crap out of each other fr
Honestly with everything said and done, It just feels like Sega tries to say they are comparable to each other, but always give in Sonic the final victory cuz he's the protagonist. I'd just like to see more of Shadow and Sonic actually being equals, and the odds between who could win being a 50/50, just so that Sonic can have a rival to his power, who COULD save the day like he does, but just in a different way and give Shadow some more relevancy again. Despite all the love Shadow gets in the Fandom he is hardly ever used effectively in game narratives anymore.
@StevenHolt-wr5ow That game got shadows character wrong, and it was an interesting concept story wise, but it was okay at best sonic 06 was one of the only games besides obviously adventure 2 to get shadows character right.
@@DatNegaNyx23The game was created and written by the same SA2 guys. While the Sonic Team level designers changed, writers didn't, and so Shadow the Hedgehog portrayed Shadow exactly the way Sega wanted
@@DatNegaNyx23You probably just *prefer* Shadow's portrayal in SA2 more. Has little to do with a character being "right" or not because Sonic Team determines what characterization is correct or not. Its like saying Sonic Adventure got Eggman's character right, Unleashed got the character wrong. Sonic Unleashed's director downright said the serious portrayals in Sonic Adventure is *wrong,* and used goofy Eggman like Sonic X. Yet Sonic Forces and Frontiers used a serious, non joking Eggman. Only Sonic Team can decide what character portrayal is right or wrong, and Sonic Team members/writers dont agree with each other
Probably because Sega knows that if they made Shadow as strong as they make Sonic or even just use him too much, every problem would be solved with ruthless efficiency.
@@garrulous645That's called a contradiction outside of the primary source. People involved in the process of games aren't as reliable of a source as the actual source itself when they were actively involved to the highest degree. In SA2 AND 06 sonic is the ultimate lifeform. Shadow says that even with his amp in speed, when sonic isn't holding back he is faster and stronger. For there to be ANY suggestion of Shadow being close to sonic after multiple concessions from shadow himself, him losing to him in the same scenario against a full power sonic, and later a holding back sonic, just shows contradictions from the writers just to poorly implement shadow when he should have been dead after SA2. Y'all blatantly ignore this bad writing post-SA2 to feed your agendas instead of addressing the multiple contradictions to shadow being supposedly even close to sonic that happen before, during, AND after shadow confesses to sonic being superior. SHADOW IS WEAKER. Shadow didn't even try to show up super sonic, shadow lost to generations holding back sonic, shadow didn't even try to pull back up on infinite who is stated superior to shadow after training, and he blatantly glazes sonic in sonic 06.
It's been stated that Sonic has no resistance to time manipulation. In the same breath, he's so fast he's been known to walk up to an opponent (while time was stopped) and tell him he was too slow. He's literally so fast that he can move while time is frozen
Are you talking about Sonic Man walking after Flash Man stopped time in the Archie Comics? If so, that feat isn't valid due to Archie and Game aren't in the same canon. Tho, it is possible that he still has time manipulation resistance.
@user-ei8yc4dz4s and well he actually can resist it I'm not talking about them showing super speed in slow motion lmao he's just pulled feats where he has moved at infinite to accessible speeds which cld possibly mean he cld break out of time stop Well I didn't even say that I'm just saying he definitely has time resistance which I don't see how that's a problem
Aw, I was looking forward to the Sonic Battle evidence. They did have a few fights there with it being strongly implied Sonic really is just built different when he goes all out. I can accept Sonic Chronicles being glossed over due to it being iffy to use in the grand scheme of canon. Power Boost vs Chaos Boost would have been an interesting factor to consider also. Overall, pretty solid video!
@user-ei8yc4dz4s Gotta be the dumbest argument I ever heard in favor of Shadow. We don't know what the future will be like in Sonic canon. For all we know Shadow will make a sacrifice and die before Sonic passes of old age or eventually make his own sacrifice. Shadow may be immortal but all it means is that he just can't age, that doesn't mean he is invisible and is impossible to kill. We also need to take into account that Sonic has speed feats WAY BEYOND what Shadow's capable of, heck he couldn't even move in White Space, a area that has 0 concept of time. Every hour won't pass because there no time. Shadow needed Sonic to restore an area in order for him to move. If Sonic dies of old age and Shadow outlives him Sonic will still be known as the World's Fastest Hedgehog in HISTORY. Shadow has yet to accomplish an infinite, irrelevant, or immeasurable speed feat like Sonic has. Also, fix your Grammer buddy.💀💀💀
Just to add, Ian Flynn, writer for the comics, was asked who was faster between Sonic & Shadow earlier this year/last year & he stated that he was directly told from Sega that Sonic & Shadow are on par in every regard. Sonic channel states the same thing. So they will always be equals regardless of fan discourse.
then they clearly give sonic better feats,more abilities and better transformaions,one statment from flynn doesn't balance all the information given to us.
@@ahmadkazan5473 Cause his the protagonist, his obviously going to get more feats, transformations etc because he has to be front and center of most games but they are meant to be equals.
In 06, one way to interpret mephiles sending Silver to kill sonic is that Mephiles is a dick. He could have just gone back in time and forces elise to cry in some other way, but he seems to enjoy the cruelty of forcing someone kind like silver to cause it.
yh that's how I interpreted it. when I first played 06 I remember thinking it was the best Sonic story of all time before I went online and saw everyone hated it.
I do think he was messing with them tho not just to be a dick but be strategic. In a way he could only make elise cry by killing sonic. Considering she had to not cried at all for several years it's prob not easy to so mephiles chose to let her bond with sonic which would cause the most pain. Also since mephiles was aware of sonic, he likely didnt want to confront him and chose a promising warrior to aid him in doing so and in a sense kills two birds with one stone by taking out a potential threat and fulfilling his goal. Because ironically while guarding someone ur the most vulnerable to attacks
He also misinterpreted them needing to revive Sonic in 06. They need to revive Sonic because they needed all 3 of them to destroy Solaris in the Past,(Shadow) Present (Sonic) and Future (Silver) so he could be destroyed for good. Killing Solaris in the two of the times would have done nothing to Solaris so they needed Sonic to be able to kill it in all 3. It's not because Shadow/Silver aren't strong enough to defeat Solaris but Sonic is.
It’s also said in the JP translation of the battle in the ark in the SA2 Dark Story that Sonic is holding back. So that’s something to consider. Btw, Six COOKED in this video!
@@LeonButcher-ib9rf I’m pretty sure if you look up “SA2 Dark story translation” you should be able to find it. The translation was done by Windii, and all that exist of her translations are reuploaded videos. Edit: I found the video, it’s by Demon Dethchase, Sonic says he’s done playing around.
@@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028 Yes, he says that near the end of the fight, which means Sonic for the majority of the fight is holding back. Shadow is trying to kill Sonic in both the hero and villain stories, so Sonic holding back in the villain story and not dying in the story just shows Sonic is superior to Shadow.
@@niggardosenpai Wrong. Because Sonic is in way more intense battles than Shadow. But Shadow still shows to have the superior skills. Because he was born that way.
@@niggardosenpaiyou remember how sonic use chaos control with fake emerald? It means if sonic will try he can do all stuff like Shadow and no wonder cause Shadow literally just copy of Soni the real ultimate life form
@@Nite-Rise You do realize Shadow is over forty right? He was fighting before Sonic was even born. Its why he is better at hand to combat and knows how to use any weapon human or alien. That being said Sonic skills are amazing for his age he is extremely skilled.
Shadow can have hundreds of thousands of manuals, wikis, comics, books or whatever claiming he's equal or stronger than Sonic but Sega will never let him show his strength. If anything, they've been slowly nerfing him over the years and pushing him into the corner, despite his popularity.
the pitbull and toddler at 1:16 for possible fighters had me cracked up. Im also glad youre covering sonic content, Im glad he made a big comeback into the video game culture. Hes literally one of the longest lasting video game mascots next to DK and mario. Im glad youre putting respect on my mans sonics name.
I think it should be noted that in the earlier games Sonic had far more experience in combat and chaos energy than Shadow did. Which is why Shadow showed stamina problems in the earlier games. Sonic was his first fight. The Mephiles that Shadow fought was amped by 2 chaos emeralds.
If we're talking skill then sonic most definitely takes that. In sonic battle, Emeral absorbs every characters fighting abilities including shadow, knuckles (stated to be a master martial artist), espio (a ninja) etc... and sonic beats him under 30 seconds.
Not just that, but Emerl also took on all 7 Chaos Emeralds, and one shot the Master Emerald. Either Sonic has *way* more skill or raw stats, probably both.
These are good points to address in the ever-long rival versus hero, even if I feel guidebooks might be somewhat dubious in greater canon if they aren't written by the original story authors (No hate, just my personal belief since that kind of media tends to be ancillary and tends to be more likely to be retconned). I just wonder how by Generations, Shadow seemingly closed the gap in his rival fight with Sonic. By that point, neither hedgehog has any disadvantage, and both are holding onto an Emerald, meaning that either party can utilize whatever technique they want with the Chaos Powers. Shadow doesn't seem to be any slower than Sonic, nor is Shadow's own boost any less impressive than Sonic's since outside hitting from behind the Boost Aura, they clash rather than either Boost overpowering, and both seem to need that Power Core in order to get the advantage in the fight. Sonic wouldn't logically hold back when the entirety of time is on the line, nor would Shadow ever consider pulling punches against someone he would at one point consider to be the true Ultimate Lifeform. Shadow somehow between his game and Generations seemingly closed the gap after all those adventures Sonic had where he only got stronger and faster, yet it still seems that as the canon continues, Sonic seemingly can't pull a sweeping victory against Shadow when it counts. By Forces, Shadow definitely does have a lesser degree of capability compared to Sonic in the Infinite fights since both struggled (And Shadow just unfortunately is forced to benchwarm while Sonic, Sonic and the Rookie win against Infinite, which makes his jobber energy only shine worse since he doesn't get those fights anymore), but it seems that as time goes on, somehow when Shadow and Sonic come to blows, whatever advantage one has, the other's evened it out when it counts. Of course, this is looking from a lens that's not quite like Death Battle scenarios where the sources and scaling matter.
Cool video. 👍 From an unbiased viewpoint Sonic and Shadow are basically equal. It’s also important to, keep in mind when regarding sonic forces, is that Sonic got defeated by infinite pretty badly prior, (too many clones) when he attempted to defeat him by himself, therefore, in the end just like 06, a joint effort was required, otherwise victory couldn’t have been achieved. Hence the name “Sonic Forces” Infinite was simply arrogant, which ended up costing him. Overall there’s a reason why Sega made Sonic and Shadow rivals, and share similarities while yet being different. There have been many other games other than what was shown, where it talks/explains how one feels about the other. Certain games, Sonic/Sega feels that Shadow, could possibly have a one up on him, and in other games Shadow/Sega feels that Sonic could have a possible advantage at times. Ultimately it’s nothing concrete, just overall speculation for the most part. However the two statements that actually is explained the most regarding them; in many different games, is that “Sonic is the fastest” and “Shadow matches/rivals Sonic and equals Sonic in speed.” Despite Shadow not being in that many games, these two concepts are repeated the most, about them from Sega and has overall has stayed the same.
The first loss to infinite becomes moot when he beats him in the forest to which infinite even says "your data is different than before" and sonic says he got stronger. So within those 6 momths, he closed that gap and he even fights infinite by himself fir awhile when he gains his full power at the end of the game ans the avatar doesnt appear till after theyd already started fighting and he was still doing fine. Everything else you said was alright but it doesnt change the fact that SEGA themselves said what was said in this vod. Many times (more times than not) SEGA acknowledges that somic is decently above shadow. Both in gameplay and lore/statements.
I think one thing we should also factor is the power boost every time the chaos emeralds are used, specifically all 7. Sonic has become Super Sonic far more times than Shadow, which Iirc you get a significant boost in power after the transformation. So it would make sense if Sonic was more powerful than Shadow considering the amount of times he used the chaos emeralds.
@@theyoungfamily8295i think it's more implied not stated since shadow in his game did a better chaos control feat than both he and super sonic did in sa2 and he was still fine while he almost died in sa2 so he got a massive power boost from simply using super form another time.
You know that all doesn’t make sense since the emeralds aren’t infinite in power and are like ancient batteries They don’t give a multiplicating boost no they give you a set amount of energy Sonic unleashed and Sonic Frontiers made that clear
There’s another thing that I think sega is going for, which is shadow is the master of chaos energy, but sonic is good at using any kind of energy, which shadow can’t do.
I think it's a little hard to say for certain because of all the different media in play that tend to lean one way or another, but I think if we're looking at it from a narrative perspective, Sonic should be pretty comfortably above Shadow. The whole point of SA2 is Sonic learning to overcome someone who is physically his equal and then some. Shadow goes into his first encounter with Sonic with a chaos emerald and completely outclasses him in speed, Sonic's own area of expertise. Then Sonic encounters him on prison island and the two come to a draw, and it should be noted that Shadow does not have a chaos emerald at the time. When Sonic faces him on the space colony ark, Sonic is already clearly well above Shadow at this point. He has managed to perform a feat that Shadow can't even comprehend, using chaos control with a fake emerald. The fake emerald does not have even a fraction of the same power as a real one; it just mimics the energy frequency, meaning that Sonic's chaos control is almost all him. Shadow recognizes this and understands right away that he needs to beat Sonic now or he'll never have a chance against him in the future. They fight, and canonically, Sonic beats Shadow, who is using a real chaos emerald, with a fake one. Logically speaking, this should mean that Sonic is stronger than Shadow WITH a chaos emerald since as we've established, Sonic's emerald was fake and likely didn't give him any real boosts compared to Shadow's. Taking this into consideration, we then have Super Sonic and Super Shadow vs the Final Hazard where Shadow literally shows that he is completely unable to keep up with Sonic. Sonic gets back abord the ark just fine but Shadow is completely spent by it and 'dies' from overexerting himself and falling back to Earth. Fast forward again, and we see Shadow's first major win against Sonic in his titular game. It should be of note that in every one of these timelines that Shadow beats Sonic, he is doing so with nearly all of the chaos emeralds at his disposal. While Shadow doesn't seem to gain any direct gameplay buffs from them, he CAN use chaos blast and chaos control, which he can't do without them. Narratively speaking, Shadow with 6 chaos emeralds should very obviously be well above Sonic. Shadow is Sonic's lesser, but not nearly by so much that Sonic is ever just sweeping him. Moving on to 06, Shadow steps in to save Sonic and fight Silver, and I've seen some people use this to say that Shadow is Sonic's superior here, but it should be noted that 1: Silver has a chaos emerald here 2: Sonic is actively trying NOT to fight Silver because he's trying to save Elise 3: Sonic has already beaten Silver in their first fight and judging by how the cutscene goes, it wasn't even a close fight. Sonic TRASHED him and only gets overwhelmed in the end because, again, Elise can't stay uncaptured for longer than 3 minutes This is getting long so let me hasten things... Generations: Sonic beats Shadow AND Shadow doesn't even try to involve himself in the fight with the Time Eater, which implies that Shadow either didn't think he could hang in that fight at all, or he just didn't see a point because he knew Sonic and little Sonic would win easily (which they did, to be fair) Forces: Shadow isn't around for a good chunk of it, but again he leaves the fighting of Infinite to Sonic and the CC which implies he either didn't think he could make much of a difference, or he didn't think they needed him Frontiers: Sonic in this game is a different breed compared to his other game iterations so I don't think Shadow is messing with him at all. This would normally be the point where I got into Archie and IDW but again, this is already getting pretty lengthy. That said, Archie is about the place where it becomes a lot more contentious. I'll let someone else fight that battle TLDR though: At least as far as the games go, Sonic WAY outclasses Shadow to the point that even with one chaos emerald on hand, Shadow still consistently loses to a base Sonic.
Couldn't read of all it but wasn't shadow created to be a hedgehog because gerald saw that prophecy of eggman and super sonic, so he would have what sonic would already have in the future? It's two parallels colliding like who's really the faker
@@Topaz_1z Yeah there are a ton of theories backed by the game's lore that suggest that Shadow is based on that mural. Shadow even says in the Final Hazard fight that he thinks Sonic is the original ultimate life form, implying that he thinks he really is just a copy of Sonic.
@@meowsquared I really wish that narrative went somewhere. SA2 left a loose end that was just never followed up on. It would have been a banger finale for the Sonic series to conclude that plotline.
@@SonGoku-bg1frYeah Shadow even admits in the end of the game that Sonic might be the real ultimate lifeform and it does make sense. In terms of speed, Shadow has to use those shoes to compare to Sonic natural speed. His super form looks like an inferior version of Sonic's, looking more sliver than gold. It was very clear they were implying he was the faker and he accepts it in the end. Doesn't mean he can't outshine the original sometimes though as shown in Shadow the hedgehog.
Yea but this is debunked by shadows inhibitor rings suppressing his true power. We’ve seen the kind of boost he gets from taking them off and had he taken them off in any of their fights sonic would lose.
When I was younger, I adored shadow. He was just the absolute epitome of COOL to my young smooth brain. Those black and red quills, the drippy moon stompers, the rings, everything. My mother once bought a pair of roller skates just so I could look like shadow running.
Ha, I liked the Six Video Screen, it was really good and funny. I dig it! I hope you do that again Six. Until we see Shadow again (I HOPE Frontiers gives us that kind of DLC), Sonic has so much of an advantage. Not to mention his "Super Sonic 2" form.
Adventure 2's second fight can be interpreted much more evenly, but still in favor of Sonic. Sonic's win objective is not defeating Shadow but reaching the cannon in a race which may be more canonical as both ShaTH and SGen's treatment of the battle and neither characters are bothered by the outcome considering Shadow was starting to fear Sonic was the true Ultimate Lifeform. That said in narrative of SA2 it can be interpreted that both are the Ultimate Lifeform with Shadow being made in the control of a lab and Sonic being the product of the chaos of the world.
Shadow's objective was defeating Sonic though, and he clearly failed at that (and he's nowhere to be seen after the fight until Final Story, meaning he must have been defeated otherwise, he'd probably still cause some issues)
Sonic lore aside, this is one of the best edited videos I've ever seen. Literally just your voice and images and effects and boom, it's honestly one of the best videos I've seen on RUclips
This thought just came to me as Six was talking about their different arsenals. There is a STRONG argument to be made that Sonic should be able to easily replicate any ability that Shadow has. All of Shadow's special abilities are chaos based, and between the two, Sonic has demonstrated a better inherent understanding of Chaos than Shadow has. Sure, Shadow has more chaos abilities readily at his disposal, but Sonic's feat with the fake emerald, combined with his better proficiency with the Super form indicates that Sonic is far better at intuitively using the chaos emeralds and chaos-related powers than Shadow is. It's more likely that Sonic could use any abilities that Shadow can, but just doesn't as they don't really suit his style. If that's the case, then Shadow's chaos control just wouldn't work against a serious Sonic since he'd just match it with his own. Any of Shadow's offensive abilities like chaos spear, chaos lance, or chaos blast would easily be matched by Sonic just using his own alternatives like Sonic wind or some variations, assuming Sonic doesn't just dodge them entirely through raw speed. Now one thing that Six said that I disagree with is that their super forms should be an equal amp. I think Sonic has repeatedly shown that his Super form is just outright superior and/or more complete than Shadow's or Silver's. Sonic can maintain it for longer, can summon the emeralds from a long distance to transform (Unleashed), and can seemingly share his power with others to MAKE them turn super (Heroes and 06). These are all abilities that at least demonstrate a higher proficiency with chaos powers and the super form which shadow hasn't really shown any relativity to. Even if we take all of this and just say "more skill doesn't equal more power", which I think is a bit goofy considering everything else, Sonic would just outlast Shadow even if he didn't seem to have such a big disparity in stats and combat skills. That said, I think i do strongly agree with a lot of the conclusions that are made here. I just have slight disagreements with some of the 'why' arguments.
@@edehyoungthug5887 Nah. The events of Sonic 3 and Knuckles are canon but Hyper Sonic seemingly got retconned out. So when talking about combat scaling Hyper Sonic tends to get left out of the discussion beyond just being a neat talking point.
Sonic has better chaos emerald experience but shadow has inherent chaos abilities. If it came down to using the emeralds though, sonic would always win.
@@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy Yeah, Shadow has a lot of innate abilities but Sonic has been rocking with the emeralds for a long time and has earned their allegiance time and time again. If it came down to a battle of wills with the emeralds, Sonic would probably win because he embodies the properties of chaos far more strongly than Shadow does. That's also why I think Sonic could probably replicate any of Shadow's abilities with the emeralds. At the end of the day Shadow is just using his innate ability to harness chaos, which Sonic could probably do just as well if not even better.
Sonic doesn't even need chaos abilities to counter shadow's sonic has had immusurable speed feats since sonic CD anything that anyone in the verse let alone shadow can do with an emerald or any gem sonic can do by simply not holding his speed back,a super form battle is the only close fight and sonic simply has more experience and time in it,also if we go composite sonic can just stack super sonic 2 and if shadow is REALLY that strong he'll go cyber super sonic and one shot shadow at least out of super form(whereas sonic stayed in super form after losing the cyber powers).
Sonic in general just has better narrative portrayal, better feats, and most of the time he fights shadow, he’s not even bloodlust. I don’t think Shadow is very far off, but I say Sonic wins 70 percent of the time.
Regarding the 06 Sonic statement Sonic “being the only one that can banish its living flames” is & got taken out of context. Its important to remember Solaris is stated to be a multidimensional being, that existed within the past, present, & future, and couldn’t be beaten by one or two hedgehogs alone, which makes sense logically. This is why Shadow said Sonic needed to be alive. In order to defeat Solaris, in simple terms, it had to be beaten within the past, present, and future at the same time, so intern the 3 hedgehogs, who were the only one’s who could manipulate/restore time) were needed. This is the real reason why they needed sonic to return, not because he was the only one that could stop it, (banish it’s flames) That’s like 06 mentioning that Elise was the only one that could keep Iblis’s flames contained and still live, (blaze died trying to contain it, and it rejected silver) therefore by that statement alone, Elise using her strength to contain it and not cry, makes her stronger than most of the verse, which in reality statements similar like this, is simply taken out of context and unfortunately is not to be taken at face value. From an unbiased viewpoint, Sonic & Shadow most likely are equal overall
Exactly, 💯Makes sense, I’m glad someone like you caught that, very thorough explanation regarding statements like that. Was also thinking the same thing👍 From an unbiased viewpoint as well, a lot of people don’t often realize that using the guidebooks as direct statements for comparisons isn’t to be taken at face value, because unfortunately at the end of the day, it’s nothing concrete and in reality, it isn’t seriously supported by Sega. So it’s gonna lead to speculation ultimately
From an unbiased standpoint, sonic is significantly higher than shadow and this vod proves it. He literally used material from the straight official sources and creators and you just say "nah their even". Thats disengenuious of you. Again theres a reason eggman only cared about sonic being out of commission and never mentioned shadow once.
Way I see it Shadow is a bit stronger and has innate chaos powers while Sonic is a bit faster, but Sonic has a lot more experience and skill. It's his experience that puts Sonic above Shadow more often than not, but the two are close enough that either one can win a fight depending on how the plot needs to go.
My view on it is that Shadow, the game, shows Shadow COULD be stronger, but because Sonic is more consistently fighting these crazy things and Shadow doesn't focus on that kind of lethality, Sonic has pulled ahead. If Shadow had a game of just, focusing on killing Sonic I think he could get to that level but he doesn't and has no reason to.
@sixfromtokyo Now Imma be honest, I agree with the overall result especially with Frontiers involved, but I think you may have overlooked a few details that make things a bit more equivalent and I think this is especially the case with 06. Now we can both agree that in speed during 06 Sonic is ludicrously faster then even Shadow and thrashed Silver base to base whereas Shadow struggled, but to say Shadow had to use his chaos boost against Silver may be a reach too far when the narrative makes a big deal of him using the form in 06 during the Mephiles confrontations and this goes especially for the first battle when Shadow had no idea for a good bit how to bring Mephiles out of his shadow. Then when Mephiles pulls out the double emeralds and reveals he's absorbed his former self as well from the past, Shadow elevates things to the complete removal of the inhibitor rings showing narratival escalation, but only in response to Mephiles, not Silver. And again, with Silver, Shadow wasn't interested in killing him tbh, and was focused on subduing him. Next with the Solaris issue it should be reiterated that Solaris's unique existence required three super hedgehogs to beat him across past, present, and future at the same time. Hence, the emphasis on bringing Sonic back to life, now moving forward we have Colors DS with Omega comparing Shadow to Sonic so it's not like Shadow lags behind in successive titles. Hell, in Generations Sonic needs to absorb the purple meteor energy to make a decisive blow to Shadow for the W whereas even with boost they just clash into each other without either making any notable progress in a fight. And mind you, this is only base to base, no chaos transformations (honestly Chaos Boost from 06 is literally Shadow mastering the chaos forms from his standalone game as he can use chaos blast, chaos snap which is essentially him teleporting around to attack like chaos control without an emerald or the need to have a particular mental state/moral alignment), removal of inhibitor rings, or anything of that nature. Whereas with Silver, Sonic finessed him in Generations albeit in the sense of skill finessing as the goal in beating Silver is to hit him directly and not to try to be gung ho and fight against his raw telekinetic power (who I feel is probably stronger then Shadow on raw ap, barring perhaps a Shadow without his inhibitor rings). Now in Forces it should be noted that Shadow was trapped in la la land when Eggman went gunning for Sonic with Infinite which may explain the lack of emphasis on Shadow since it was not long ago when Eggman considered Shadow a thorn in his side when he invaded Eggman's base in the Infinite flashback. Moving forward, I'd contend that despite Sonic not necessarily being scared of fake Shadow charging him he still felt he could only react by blocking in a really oh $hit I'm about to get hit kind manner rather then a proper block which implies that the attack was gonna happen so fast he couldn't think of any other strategy on the fly beyond a mostly subconscious keep away gesture. So Shadow and Sonic should still be somewhat close even in Forces base to base tbh. In the end, I believe Sonic wins due to greater speed and craftiness 6/10 times, but Shadow has wincons via greater raw ap more often then not when doing a base to base match, super form versus super form however, I think Sonic wins narratively and Hyper speaks for itself. So again, I must reiterate that I ultimately agree with the end result here, but not quite the gap you're portraying between Shadow and Sonic on a base to base basis.
This was a great video with amazing editing. Just a few thoughts from me: I think the angle that Sonic 06 was trying to get at wasn’t that Sonic was the strongest, more that all the hedgehogs were comparable. While it is true Sonic was able to knock down Silver in comparison to Shadow stale mating him, Silver still almost killed Sonic prior to shadows encounter on round 2 with seemingly equal footing once again. While this can be chalked up to just the extreme nature of Silver fights (basically Silver just needing one opening to end a fight with anyone he battles) it still shows that Silver IS capable of beating Sonic and shadow stale mated him. Another thing is that you said Giganto cant hurt Super Sonic which is false. Giganto can one hit kill Super Sonic if he eats him. Showing that Super Sonic can be damaged by extremely powerful attacks. Besides those few things, this was spot on. Awesome video.
I genuinely wanna take some time to appreciate the level of care and detail that’s been going into the editing for the last couple of months. Six you have truly been carrying with the consistency and top tier editing. Thank you fam!
As a response for round 3 in this video, while I agree that Sonic wins here you are misinterpreting Mephiles's goal, he did not send silver because he doubted his ability to take out Sonic or anything like that. He did so because this distraction led Elise to getting captured, Sonic saving her, them growing closer, etc. Eggman even says Mephiles played them ALL for fools, meaning Eggman capturing yet repeatedly was something Mephiles wanted. This is what led to them growing close enough that Elise would cry from his death.
Gotta make a correction to the Solaris section. The reason they needed sonic is because they had to fight Solaris in the past present and future at the same time. They actually fight it solo in all three time lines. Edit: man there's no way you actually tried to use time stop from vs mode as an actual feat lol
I'm surprised you didn't mention Shadow's super strength. Also, the other Sonic abilities you mentioned were one offs that were either multiplayer exclusive, exclusive to the particular environment (Time Break only exists in Secret Rings' Storybook), or quirky bonus abilities. There's a reason why no one ever mentions Magic Hands as a Sonic exclusive feat lol I'm also unsure that the Prima Guides are reliable sources of information for things like this, to be honest. Sonic and Shadow's correlation has always been one of natural talent and intuitiveness, vs trained skill and artificial abilities, respectively. In every instance that they share a game, Sonic is only ever better stat-wise when it comes to speed; on paper, Shadow should beat Sonic every time, but Sonic will almost always find a way to come out on top, due to his prodigious nature, and intuitive flexibility, skill and potential.
Shadow super strength? Look, I don't see much difference in strength between Sonic and Shadow, taking into account the games, which are canonical. I don't think there's any difference between them in this regard.
@@ep6713 There's a mechanic in Shadow the Hedgehog where Shadow lifts heavy machinery/objects to clear a path. Sonic has never displayed the ability to do that, in games, or in cutscenes.
@@AwijoshSunI understand. But I don't think it's a very considerable feat, since we don't know if Sonic would have difficulty doing the same, it's somewhat subjective, I don't know if it would be a a considerable difference between them just because of this.
@@ep6713 Well we know that Shadow can, and that Sonic hasn't. The point of the mechanic was to show the ability. Sonic has never had such a mechanic in the games, other than pushing the occasional rock. You can argue that Sonic could do that all you want, but it wouldn't mean anything without it actually being emphasized on screen. Sonic isn't as physically strong as Knuckles, and no one questions that.
I gotta say this is your best video yet. And i know part of that reason has to do with my undying love for Sonic and the 2000s games (when the series wsnt afraid to be shonen), but it also has to do with your editing. The topic was decently researched, the music was kickass FIRE, and your arguments were sound. I dont think this fight actually gets enough serious attention either, which is weird considering it was almost as notoriously argued about as Goku vs Vegeta in the playgrounds. This was a sick video. Keep it up. I really found it entertaining, which i can't say for a lot of vs videos these days.
You’re definitely wrong about the Last Story of Sonic 06. The context for those lines is that Silver just learned that Solaris needs to be defeated in the Past, Present and Future at the same time, and so was trying to see if Silver and Shadow with their Super forms can do it on their own. Shadow is saying they don’t have the third person to defeat Solaris on all 3 points. Honestly, that line makes it seem like they’re all equal than saying Sonic is superior to them both. This is even supported by their lines against Solaris Phase 2.
11:54 i think shadow was more so referring to the fact they needed sonic to fight in all 3 time periods (tho that still confirms him the best choice minus shadow or silver bare minimum) but yea he was likely the only one who could finish solaris since elise and him did right after
I think especially after frontiers where super sonic was shown superior to the end in one ending, plus super sonic 2, cyber super sonic and hyper sonic, makes it clear that shadow would lose
I still think "The End" is stronger than Sonic. Its the first time Sonic had to actually damn near kill himself just to win against one of The End's many bodies which are possibly stronger than that. He won but fuckin barely (with the help of Master King and the others). I wish they portraited The End more like how they did with Beerus in Battle of Gods (by Goku not actually winning and having the Antagonist leaving on their terms). It would have been a nice change of pace and even meta-commentary from the usual easy Super Sonic sweeps.
@@justcallmekai1554tbf while sonic was knocked out temporarily he immediately gets up after hitting earth from a distance higher than the atmosphere and detransforming(aka he's going at terminal velocity from outer spacs,hits the ground in base after the "exhaustion" and gets up like nothing),if the end was still alive after the last attack super sonic could've picked himself back up.
Super Sonic 2 and Cyber Super Sonic were forms straight-up gifted to Sonic by someone else. Who's to say Master King Koco is incapable of giving it to Shadow? Not that it matters since Sonic lost access to those forms after he pushed himself. Also Hyper Sonic isn't canon.
Neither ending was said to be canon however the game does outright say that the DLC is an alternate take on the story. Regardless, the first ending shouldnt just get disreagrded so super sonic still scales to the end in some way, shape or form and in the first ending, sonic didnt have to go so far to win.
@gabrielmachado1247 prove its that low Shadow gives Sonic lots of difficulties every fight. Every fight sonic won he was amped in. Shadow never used his dark,hero,chaos boost or without rings forms against Sonic. A chaos super shadow would steam roll Super Sonic only Hyper Sonic beats Shadow
As for 06 I would like to mention towards the end Shadow could be referring that they need Sonic to fight Solaris in the present and not so much that Sonic being that much Superior to him or silver. Solaris as a being who exists in the past,present,and future would be impossible to defeat in a traditional way. Like say Shadow died instead of Sonic then Sonic and Silver would still lose as they would have no way of defeating Solaris in the past. They literally have to kill Solaris at all three points of time at the same time in order to win. Generally how I see it for the most part if where just talking about the games and consistency Sonic and Shadow are extremely relative but Sonic having the slight edge due to having more feats. It's not a stomp in either favor but due to Sonic Generally having better showings he wins more often then not. However if we do take Sonic Prime and idw in consideration you can pull a greater argument for Shadow as in both instances post forces Shadow gets one up over Sonic and presses him throughout the fight.
Shadow was designed to be extremely powerful. Sonic might be extremely fast but most of his powers are limited to the setting (like ring skills he got in Secret Rings, the stuff in Sonic Prime, the cyberspace powers of Frontiers, the shoes of 06 [dude could literally buff his speed in that game like no sh!t he was outrunning silver have you met silver?], most equipment from the adventure games, etc.) Shadow's powers would be a b!tch to program them all at the same time and would probably make the game too easy so we tend to get a limited view of his abilities for plot reasons. As they used to say Sonic is as fast as Knuckles is strong. I believe the truest way to judge Sonic's abilities in frontiers is to see Sonic's strength at level 0 no upgrades no moves he gets from absorbing cyberspace glitchiness. They add to sonic but they only take away from shadow because if he had the drive he'd probably make sonic irrelevant outside of circumstances that demanded the extra power. Being on guard for a shoot out would not make a bullet hurt any less, so I think you're wrong about knuckles knocking the super out of sonic as a fluke. Knuckles knows emerald energy, it's not like being super makes you completely invisible, you can still die from being crushed. Knuckles is just that stronk lol
Limited or not, sonic has a better utilization of his battle tactics and fighting style. That and sonic gets stronger over time, just look at frontiers. Shadow may have MORE abilities, but sonic has proven that means little to him, time and time again.
I personally find it interesting that The Hedgehog Heroes can't actually stay aware constantly. You would think that with the ability to completely dominate time and distort perceptions of it, they could never get ganked, especially since they are generally Relativistic, casually. However, if I have a rock and hit Super Shadow with it, I can snap him out of his form, despite me being cinder block level. I hope that SEGA explains why Super Formes don't give pseudo-omniscience, since they should-IN BASE-be aware of anything they run past.
A rock probably couldn't hit Super Shadow out of his form simply by hitting him normally, even if it catches him by surprise. Knuckles is the guardian of the Master Emerald and is bonded to it, which is later shown to have power over the Chaos Emeralds including the ability to disrupt Chaos Energy temporarily. It makes sense for him to have a trick up his sleeve that lets him actually do damage or cancel a Super if he gets the drop on them. That said, yeah, it's a nice touch that they don't exaggerate super perception or reaction times that much.
You are not knocking Shadow out of Super just because he gets hit unaware by a rock. Unless you think Knuckles is only rock level in Sonic 3. But Knuckles is a powerhouse even in base because he canonically wins the fight against Super Mecha Sonic.
You know how a potara fusion that includes a god in db is permenant while even mortals with god ki still have a time limit,or how gojo's infinity literally manipulates and impacts the universe itself by deleting and adding masses and screwing with laws of physics but the scale of the manipulation it is so small it's basically uses the side effects of said manipulation in combat?That's like the condition for a super form's invincibility,it's omniscience in concept since the emeralds have no cap on their power but the power can be wasted by the user,the emeralds are only limited by the users immagination. Also storytelling.
@@ahmadkazan5473 No, you can have immense durability completely without any omniscience or even extrasensory perception at all. Just because a power works on a fundamental concept doesn't mean it's possible to explore all facets of the fundamental concept through that power. It can be a one way street or have hard limits as well. Using other universes where that may not be the case does absolutely nothing to imply anything about how this one works. For all we know Super formes might as well just be a flat or multiplicative speed, durability and power increase, not even necessarily by the same amount each or scaling from base power. Unless directly supported by things stated in Lore what you are saying is nothing but fanfiction.
Great video and S-tier editing! Love seeing how the channel is evolving over the years. No reference for the music used in the description? There was a lot of nice choices used here. Wish you shared them!
In adventure 2 Shadow canonically beat Sonic. Sonic would use his fake emerald in battle to warp but Shadow shouldn't be able to do it since he didn't have any at the time. I know abilities change in future installments but at the time he need a Chaos Emerald to warp
Jps adventure 2 guide in shadow story states sonic was holding back in the fight and no shadow never beaten sonic in arc fight even in sonic x came out as the winner and you can beat shadow as sonic in thr hero story so i don't see your point as for abilitys sonic now has many abilitys now plus cyber abilitys mean while shadow has chaos abilitys and in guides his shoes it what makes him fast not like sonic who is just normaly fast in any shoes people don't bring up sonic cronacols ds shadow admits sonic is faster than him
@rimurutempest9733 In game events take priority in regards to Canon as compared to third party released strategy guides that were not written by the developers and therfore do not feature their intentions. In Sonic X shadow is only knocked down in their arc battle, he isn't incapacitated. Later in the series he has not one but two decisive victories over Sonic. One in his regular form and the second at the finale in his Super form. Seeing as it was at the end of the series, Sonic X supports that Shadow is the better fighter.
@@deadstrider wrong again they do bc they are released by sega and not once did they say shadow better fighter lol and shadow never beaten sonic in his super form tf you on about kid your pulling shit out your ass now and sonic has always faced shadow never blood lusted where shadow has and sonic beaten shadow in generations before tf and shadow admited sonic faster and guides says shadow hover boots makes him fast and don't talk of cannon before we debate that bc ik someone on RUclips that makes vids on what's cannon he also debates to
Bro did people watch the 06 Shadows story. 06 Shadow is more powerful than Sonic purely due to more hax. I don’t think he’s as fast(definitely not as fast without his shoes) but he’s definitely more powerful. I don’t think it’s a stomp however. I think shadow with high diff sonic if both we’re trying their best after a very long battle. Sonic would have the advantage in speed. No chaos emeralds.
If that was the case then those hax wouldve helped him win liyerally anytike theyve ever fought. And yet in EVERY CANON FIGHT (yes you can check) sonic won every single one. So obviously the hax doesnt help him much. Besides sonic forces kinda puts this debate to rest. The only person eggman was concerned with is sonic. He never not once cared about shadow. If shadow was really that nuch of a problem, he wouldve cared about him too.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Return of the king 🔥
Are you a Sega Representative?
MASKED!
GREAT SIX SONIC VS SHADOW THE HONEST TRUTH VIDEO.
Editing is Top Tier 🔥
I had to get the best on this one
@@sixfromtokyodarkspine sonic defeated erzaror dijin who destroyed 100 of abrain knight each of them have metaphysical properties
@@sixfromtokyoso darkspine sonic is not low multiversal but multiversal
@@sixfromtokyoI hope you know sonic in sonic frontier has super sonic 2
@@sixfromtokyois hyper sonic canon
Guys in my school actually got into beef over this vs match up😂
Same bro lol (I'm lying)
Same here but with Naruto vs Ichigo
Damn truly brings me back lmao
@@theredriver2070same here but its always matchups in the big three with a few outliers
Me and my homies were the original power scalers and debaters at lunch time. We did so many vs battles I forgot what vs battles we did.
Sonic himself seems to exist as something of an anomaly within his own world. He has no clear backstory and is capable of doing things that very few if any people should be capable of. Shadow is the only one who should be capable of Chaos Control, but Sonic can not only do it, but can pull it off with a fake emerald. Sonic is one of the few individuals with a unique super form that's not just their base form but glowing. Sonic in his base form is strong enough to defeat Perfect Chaos, but requires the positive Chaos Energy from the emeralds to defeat him without killing him. In some more recent examples, Sonic was able to escape Null Space despite Eggman's assertion that doing so should be impossible, and Sonic was able to travel freely back and forth between Cyberspace and reality despite Sage's explanation that organic life forms shouldn't be able to do that and not having an explanation for why Sonic can.
The fact that Shadow was created to be the Ultimate Life Form and yet is slower than Sonic and can't consistently remain more skilled than him is actually insane. In addition to all his other feats, Sonic is fairly consistently able to outdo the guy created to be superior to every other living thing. As much as Sonic likes to act like he's just some guy who loves adventure, all the signs are pointing towards him being something quite special somehow. It goes beyond plot armor at this point, he's outright being written as doing things that should be impossible on purpose.
Shadow in SA2 implies that he is merely a copy based on the ultimate lifeform, and that the real ultimate lifeform might be Sonic.
So through that lens, Sonic may just casually be the ultimate lifeform occuring in nature just like that.
Bro sonic is literally just a dude whos fast and likes adventures. Thats about as much backstory as he has and for some reason hes like the universes golden bo y.
@@marzipancutter8144 IIRC the actual quote went something along the lines of "I think I just figured it out. The ultimate life form... Sonic, I think it might be you.", though I didn't include that bit within my original post because it is largely just Shadow trying to make sense of the absurdity of what he's witnessing in the heat of the moment. Although Shadow spends the majority of the next two games with amnesia, he does eventually get his memories back and yet from then on simply refers to himself as the Ultimate Life Form and generally treats Sonic as an equal who has earned his respect and as a rival.
It seems that whatever is actually going on with Sonic, even Shadow still doesn't know how to make sense of it, or if he does he's not exactly going out of his way to let the world know.
Sonic is just that guy,eggman found time gems?Sonic broke the speed barrier to time travel,eggman(somehow)tamed an omnipotent god of time?Sonic beat him in his own godhood with his raw speed,the literal concept of the end shows up?Sonic literally helped accelerate it's plan,only to say "nuh uh" last minute and one shot it with powers that were previously holding him back.
I'm thinking chaos was misinterpreted, chaos wasn't the god of destruction, he couldn't be, especially if sonic beat his strongest form outright in base.
Maybe sonic is supposed to be the REAL chaos, the true God of destruction. Although he'd never use his power in such a way.
It is extremely worth to mention that in "Shadow the Hedgehog", when Shadow fights Sonic, he has (iirc) 6 chaos emeralds at his disposal compared to Sonic that only has 1.
Still, great video!
I'm glad someone mentioned that. (And yes you're correct, he did have 6 Chaos Emeralds at that time.) If all 7 Emeralds together give someone enough power to take on a being like Solaris then each individual Chaos Emerald gives a huge buff in power, and Shadow had 6 when he fought Sonic so that put Sonic a substantial disadvantage.
@@TheMangekyo1011There is nothing proving he uses them.
@@AbdalSamad1 I was under the impression that simply having the chaos emeralds in your possession gives a passive amp in power regardless of weather or not any chaos powers (Such as Chaos Control for example) are used. Unless I'm mistaken and that's not how the emeralds work.
@@TheMangekyo1011ain't how the emeralds work
you can have them in your possession and not be using their power
@TheMangekyo1011 Having emeralds in one possession doesn't automatically increase their power. One has to be able to harness Chaos energy and be able to use it as well, ironically not too many characters meet even one of those criteria.
Which is why weaker characters can still get all 6 or even 7 emeralds stolen from them effortlessly by others. Chaos was a unique circumstance because he is directly connected to Chaos Emeralds/Master Emerald.
I want to point out that Shadow is always wearing hover jet boots that propel him forward in a skating motion. So while he can measure up to sonics run speed using them, he is never actually moving his limbs as fast as sonic is, so it is fair to call sonic significantly faster than him from the get go.
This means that it is simultaneously valid to call Sonic the fastest thing alive by a wide margin and still consider Sonic and Shadow tied in speed on a pure mph basis.
That said I do believe that Sonic later outpaces Shadow even by that metric.
I’ve actually never seen or considered this point of view and I think it’s pretty neat and I have to say I can’t disagree with you there!
im not 100% sure but i think it was somewhere in sonic battle in one of the descriptions its stated that shadow is as fast as sonic though with the assistants of the jet boots it makes him faster than sonic. that game also had actual stat points to compare each character and shadows running speed was 1 point higher than sonic. but idk just wanted to throw that out there for discussion
Shadow's hover skates are inconsistently an amp to speed. Sometimes they're cosmetic, sometimes they're not.
The shoes are ascetic choice. He can go fast without them.
That's not how that works. It's never implied the shoes are what makes him go fast.
Tails: Is Shadow stronger than you Sonic?
Sonic: Hm… Good Question. If Shadow were to use all his powers… it might be a little tough.
Tails: Would you lose?
Sonic: Nah, I’d win.
Yoooooo
Rare cxmz23 sighting
Fr
had i not known this was a convo with yuji and gojo prior to reading this, i would’ve thought this was actual sonic dialogue. him and gojo would either be good friends or annoy the crap out of each other fr
should be nah id spin
Oh meh geh
Honestly with everything said and done, It just feels like Sega tries to say they are comparable to each other, but always give in Sonic the final victory cuz he's the protagonist.
I'd just like to see more of Shadow and Sonic actually being equals, and the odds between who could win being a 50/50, just so that Sonic can have a rival to his power, who COULD save the day like he does, but just in a different way and give Shadow some more relevancy again.
Despite all the love Shadow gets in the Fandom he is hardly ever used effectively in game narratives anymore.
@StevenHolt-wr5ow That game got shadows character wrong, and it was an interesting concept story wise, but it was okay at best sonic 06 was one of the only games besides obviously adventure 2 to get shadows character right.
@@DatNegaNyx23The game was created and written by the same SA2 guys. While the Sonic Team level designers changed, writers didn't, and so Shadow the Hedgehog portrayed Shadow exactly the way Sega wanted
@@DatNegaNyx23You probably just *prefer* Shadow's portrayal in SA2 more. Has little to do with a character being "right" or not because Sonic Team determines what characterization is correct or not.
Its like saying Sonic Adventure got Eggman's character right, Unleashed got the character wrong. Sonic Unleashed's director downright said the serious portrayals in Sonic Adventure is *wrong,* and used goofy Eggman like Sonic X. Yet Sonic Forces and Frontiers used a serious, non joking Eggman.
Only Sonic Team can decide what character portrayal is right or wrong, and Sonic Team members/writers dont agree with each other
Probably because Sega knows that if they made Shadow as strong as they make Sonic or even just use him too much, every problem would be solved with ruthless efficiency.
@@garrulous645That's called a contradiction outside of the primary source. People involved in the process of games aren't as reliable of a source as the actual source itself when they were actively involved to the highest degree. In SA2 AND 06 sonic is the ultimate lifeform. Shadow says that even with his amp in speed, when sonic isn't holding back he is faster and stronger. For there to be ANY suggestion of Shadow being close to sonic after multiple concessions from shadow himself, him losing to him in the same scenario against a full power sonic, and later a holding back sonic, just shows contradictions from the writers just to poorly implement shadow when he should have been dead after SA2. Y'all blatantly ignore this bad writing post-SA2 to feed your agendas instead of addressing the multiple contradictions to shadow being supposedly even close to sonic that happen before, during, AND after shadow confesses to sonic being superior. SHADOW IS WEAKER. Shadow didn't even try to show up super sonic, shadow lost to generations holding back sonic, shadow didn't even try to pull back up on infinite who is stated superior to shadow after training, and he blatantly glazes sonic in sonic 06.
It's been stated that Sonic has no resistance to time manipulation. In the same breath, he's so fast he's been known to walk up to an opponent (while time was stopped) and tell him he was too slow. He's literally so fast that he can move while time is frozen
But didn't Sonic survive the time Eater attack that erased his timeline?
Are you talking about Sonic Man walking after Flash Man stopped time in the Archie Comics? If so, that feat isn't valid due to Archie and Game aren't in the same canon. Tho, it is possible that he still has time manipulation resistance.
He definitely does have time resistance but he also is fast enough to break through time stop
@user-ei8yc4dz4s my comment isn't really talking about chaos control but ok
@user-ei8yc4dz4s and well he actually can resist it
I'm not talking about them showing super speed in slow motion lmao he's just pulled feats where he has moved at infinite to accessible speeds which cld possibly mean he cld break out of time stop
Well I didn't even say that I'm just saying he definitely has time resistance which I don't see how that's a problem
The editing in this is top tier holy shit
loving the new editing styles, turns your videos from listen-alongs into actual viewing. good stuff!
Aw, I was looking forward to the Sonic Battle evidence. They did have a few fights there with it being strongly implied Sonic really is just built different when he goes all out. I can accept Sonic Chronicles being glossed over due to it being iffy to use in the grand scheme of canon. Power Boost vs Chaos Boost would have been an interesting factor to consider also. Overall, pretty solid video!
Yeah,but honestly the Result was always gonna be this,Shadow may be built different,but Sonic was BORN DIFFERENT
@@gabrielmachado1247 real
@user-ei8yc4dz4s
Gotta be the dumbest argument I ever heard in favor of Shadow. We don't know what the future will be like in Sonic canon. For all we know Shadow will make a sacrifice and die before Sonic passes of old age or eventually make his own sacrifice. Shadow may be immortal but all it means is that he just can't age, that doesn't mean he is invisible and is impossible to kill. We also need to take into account that Sonic has speed feats WAY BEYOND what Shadow's capable of, heck he couldn't even move in White Space, a area that has 0 concept of time. Every hour won't pass because there no time. Shadow needed Sonic to restore an area in order for him to move. If Sonic dies of old age and Shadow outlives him Sonic will still be known as the World's Fastest Hedgehog in HISTORY. Shadow has yet to accomplish an infinite, irrelevant, or immeasurable speed feat like Sonic has. Also, fix your Grammer buddy.💀💀💀
This is the highest quality video I've seen on your channel. Fantastic!!!!!
That shadow edit went hard, “it even says nothing gets in his way when shadow has guns.”
Song?
@@apologyman376 Yeat money so big
@@andersonbrowne4781 thanks
Just to add, Ian Flynn, writer for the comics, was asked who was faster between Sonic & Shadow earlier this year/last year & he stated that he was directly told from Sega that Sonic & Shadow are on par in every regard.
Sonic channel states the same thing. So they will always be equals regardless of fan discourse.
Sega told Flynn: We are begging you, do *not* piss them off.
then they clearly give sonic better feats,more abilities and better transformaions,one statment from flynn doesn't balance all the information given to us.
@@ahmadkazan5473 I beg to differ they gave Shadow better feats- see this is why Ian Flynn said their even.
@@ahmadkazan5473 Cause his the protagonist, his obviously going to get more feats, transformations etc because he has to be front and center of most games but they are meant to be equals.
Sega also makes aomic beat shadow in every fight in the games. So sonoc will always be stronger regardless of fan discourse.
In 06, one way to interpret mephiles sending Silver to kill sonic is that Mephiles is a dick. He could have just gone back in time and forces elise to cry in some other way, but he seems to enjoy the cruelty of forcing someone kind like silver to cause it.
yh that's how I interpreted it. when I first played 06 I remember thinking it was the best Sonic story of all time before I went online and saw everyone hated it.
I do think he was messing with them tho not just to be a dick but be strategic. In a way he could only make elise cry by killing sonic. Considering she had to not cried at all for several years it's prob not easy to so mephiles chose to let her bond with sonic which would cause the most pain. Also since mephiles was aware of sonic, he likely didnt want to confront him and chose a promising warrior to aid him in doing so and in a sense kills two birds with one stone by taking out a potential threat and fulfilling his goal. Because ironically while guarding someone ur the most vulnerable to attacks
Also, I believe if he did, it would reveal his plan.
He also misinterpreted them needing to revive Sonic in 06. They need to revive Sonic because they needed all 3 of them to destroy Solaris in the Past,(Shadow) Present (Sonic) and Future (Silver) so he could be destroyed for good. Killing Solaris in the two of the times would have done nothing to Solaris so they needed Sonic to be able to kill it in all 3. It's not because Shadow/Silver aren't strong enough to defeat Solaris but Sonic is.
@@pelagiushipbone7968 The point still stands since there's two other people there who could go super, Knuckles and Tails.
It’s also said in the JP translation of the battle in the ark in the SA2 Dark Story that Sonic is holding back. So that’s something to consider. Btw, Six COOKED in this video!
Could you tell where I can find the JP translation?
@@LeonButcher-ib9rf I’m pretty sure if you look up “SA2 Dark story translation” you should be able to find it. The translation was done by Windii, and all that exist of her translations are reuploaded videos.
Edit: I found the video, it’s by Demon Dethchase, Sonic says he’s done playing around.
@@axiom6000Doesn’t that mean he is going all out?
@@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028 Yes, he says that near the end of the fight, which means Sonic for the majority of the fight is holding back. Shadow is trying to kill Sonic in both the hero and villain stories, so Sonic holding back in the villain story and not dying in the story just shows Sonic is superior to Shadow.
@@axiom6000 That just shows Sonic tried his best to hold back but couldn’t so he had to go all out to beat Shadow.
The character select menu and stage select was clean.
The editing of this video was top tier holy....yo why doesnt he have 100k at least with a video this well done?!?!?
It’s honestly a battle of skill vs experience.
Sonic has the insane amount of experience. But Shadow’s skills are perfection itself.
It's actually vice-versa lol. Sonic (Skill) vs Shadow (Experience)
@@niggardosenpai
Wrong. Because Sonic is in way more intense battles than Shadow. But Shadow still shows to have the superior skills. Because he was born that way.
@@niggardosenpaiyou remember how sonic use chaos control with fake emerald? It means if sonic will try he can do all stuff like Shadow and no wonder cause Shadow literally just copy of Soni the real ultimate life form
I can see the bias trough this.
You just couldn't admit sonic stomps him huh?
@@Nite-Rise You do realize Shadow is over forty right? He was fighting before Sonic was even born. Its why he is better at hand to combat and knows how to use any weapon human or alien. That being said Sonic skills are amazing for his age he is extremely skilled.
Basically it boils down to “the writers care more about the protag”
Shadow can have hundreds of thousands of manuals, wikis, comics, books or whatever claiming he's equal or stronger than Sonic but Sega will never let him show his strength. If anything, they've been slowly nerfing him over the years and pushing him into the corner, despite his popularity.
that vs edit is heat af 🔥
the pitbull and toddler at 1:16 for possible fighters had me cracked up. Im also glad youre covering sonic content, Im glad he made a big comeback into the video game culture. Hes literally one of the longest lasting video game mascots next to DK and mario. Im glad youre putting respect on my mans sonics name.
Best video so far! Also, Sonic and Shadow fighting a 5-D being is a crazy feat.
Six you went all out with this video holy, this editing is on a whole other level keep up the good work
I think it should be noted that in the earlier games Sonic had far more experience in combat and chaos energy than Shadow did. Which is why Shadow showed stamina problems in the earlier games. Sonic was his first fight. The Mephiles that Shadow fought was amped by 2 chaos emeralds.
Fr shadow was literally sleep for 50 years
@@aydentolive71 exactly and only alive for a short period of time on the arc
@user-ei8yc4dz4ssonic has fought multiple gods before lol
If we're talking skill then sonic most definitely takes that. In sonic battle, Emeral absorbs every characters fighting abilities including shadow, knuckles (stated to be a master martial artist), espio (a ninja) etc... and sonic beats him under 30 seconds.
👁👁
👄
I've never considered this.....
Knuckles is also a master of martial arts as well
@@tysonmchese5799 that’s what he said
Not just that, but Emerl also took on all 7 Chaos Emeralds, and one shot the Master Emerald.
Either Sonic has *way* more skill or raw stats, probably both.
@@sonicdml4175 Sonic is just raw
Didn't expect sonic content on this channel but im wit it
I love seeing how much this channel has grown
Shadow the greatest who ever did it
Nah sonic gaps
Love shadow but not more than sonic. Maybe current sonic but definitely not dark age sonic. Dark age sonic was the best character in the franchise imo
5:35 The Yeat edit had me in tears LMFAO
These are good points to address in the ever-long rival versus hero, even if I feel guidebooks might be somewhat dubious in greater canon if they aren't written by the original story authors (No hate, just my personal belief since that kind of media tends to be ancillary and tends to be more likely to be retconned).
I just wonder how by Generations, Shadow seemingly closed the gap in his rival fight with Sonic. By that point, neither hedgehog has any disadvantage, and both are holding onto an Emerald, meaning that either party can utilize whatever technique they want with the Chaos Powers.
Shadow doesn't seem to be any slower than Sonic, nor is Shadow's own boost any less impressive than Sonic's since outside hitting from behind the Boost Aura, they clash rather than either Boost overpowering, and both seem to need that Power Core in order to get the advantage in the fight.
Sonic wouldn't logically hold back when the entirety of time is on the line, nor would Shadow ever consider pulling punches against someone he would at one point consider to be the true Ultimate Lifeform.
Shadow somehow between his game and Generations seemingly closed the gap after all those adventures Sonic had where he only got stronger and faster, yet it still seems that as the canon continues, Sonic seemingly can't pull a sweeping victory against Shadow when it counts.
By Forces, Shadow definitely does have a lesser degree of capability compared to Sonic in the Infinite fights since both struggled (And Shadow just unfortunately is forced to benchwarm while Sonic, Sonic and the Rookie win against Infinite, which makes his jobber energy only shine worse since he doesn't get those fights anymore), but it seems that as time goes on, somehow when Shadow and Sonic come to blows, whatever advantage one has, the other's evened it out when it counts.
Of course, this is looking from a lens that's not quite like Death Battle scenarios where the sources and scaling matter.
Shadow must be constantly having amnesia the way he keeps forgetting that Sonic is *him*
Cool video. 👍 From an unbiased viewpoint Sonic and Shadow are basically equal. It’s also important to, keep in mind when regarding sonic forces, is that Sonic got defeated by infinite pretty badly prior, (too many clones) when he attempted to defeat him by himself, therefore, in the end just like 06, a joint effort was required, otherwise victory couldn’t have been achieved. Hence the name “Sonic Forces” Infinite was simply arrogant, which ended up costing him.
Overall there’s a reason why Sega made Sonic and Shadow rivals, and share similarities while yet being different. There have been many other games other than what was shown, where it talks/explains how one feels about the other.
Certain games, Sonic/Sega feels that Shadow, could possibly have a one up on him, and in other games Shadow/Sega feels that Sonic could have a possible advantage at times. Ultimately it’s nothing concrete, just overall speculation for the most part. However the two statements that actually is explained the most regarding them; in many different games, is that “Sonic is the fastest” and “Shadow matches/rivals Sonic and equals Sonic in speed.” Despite Shadow not being in that many games, these two concepts are repeated the most, about them from Sega and has overall has stayed the same.
The first loss to infinite becomes moot when he beats him in the forest to which infinite even says "your data is different than before" and sonic says he got stronger. So within those 6 momths, he closed that gap and he even fights infinite by himself fir awhile when he gains his full power at the end of the game ans the avatar doesnt appear till after theyd already started fighting and he was still doing fine. Everything else you said was alright but it doesnt change the fact that SEGA themselves said what was said in this vod. Many times (more times than not) SEGA acknowledges that somic is decently above shadow. Both in gameplay and lore/statements.
I think one thing we should also factor is the power boost every time the chaos emeralds are used, specifically all 7. Sonic has become Super Sonic far more times than Shadow, which Iirc you get a significant boost in power after the transformation. So it would make sense if Sonic was more powerful than Shadow considering the amount of times he used the chaos emeralds.
This sounds cool where is it stated?
@@theyoungfamily8295i think it's more implied not stated since shadow in his game did a better chaos control feat than both he and super sonic did in sa2 and he was still fine while he almost died in sa2 so he got a massive power boost from simply using super form another time.
@theyoungfamily8295 when sonic fought Scourge in the comics
You know that all doesn’t make sense since the emeralds aren’t infinite in power and are like ancient batteries
They don’t give a multiplicating boost no they give you a set amount of energy
Sonic unleashed and Sonic Frontiers made that clear
You guys just make stuff up 🤦🏿♂️
Good to see you upload again.
There’s another thing that I think sega is going for, which is shadow is the master of chaos energy, but sonic is good at using any kind of energy, which shadow can’t do.
best editing ive ever seen on a vs channel
I think it's a little hard to say for certain because of all the different media in play that tend to lean one way or another, but I think if we're looking at it from a narrative perspective, Sonic should be pretty comfortably above Shadow.
The whole point of SA2 is Sonic learning to overcome someone who is physically his equal and then some. Shadow goes into his first encounter with Sonic with a chaos emerald and completely outclasses him in speed, Sonic's own area of expertise.
Then Sonic encounters him on prison island and the two come to a draw, and it should be noted that Shadow does not have a chaos emerald at the time.
When Sonic faces him on the space colony ark, Sonic is already clearly well above Shadow at this point. He has managed to perform a feat that Shadow can't even comprehend, using chaos control with a fake emerald. The fake emerald does not have even a fraction of the same power as a real one; it just mimics the energy frequency, meaning that Sonic's chaos control is almost all him. Shadow recognizes this and understands right away that he needs to beat Sonic now or he'll never have a chance against him in the future. They fight, and canonically, Sonic beats Shadow, who is using a real chaos emerald, with a fake one. Logically speaking, this should mean that Sonic is stronger than Shadow WITH a chaos emerald since as we've established, Sonic's emerald was fake and likely didn't give him any real boosts compared to Shadow's.
Taking this into consideration, we then have Super Sonic and Super Shadow vs the Final Hazard where Shadow literally shows that he is completely unable to keep up with Sonic. Sonic gets back abord the ark just fine but Shadow is completely spent by it and 'dies' from overexerting himself and falling back to Earth.
Fast forward again, and we see Shadow's first major win against Sonic in his titular game. It should be of note that in every one of these timelines that Shadow beats Sonic, he is doing so with nearly all of the chaos emeralds at his disposal. While Shadow doesn't seem to gain any direct gameplay buffs from them, he CAN use chaos blast and chaos control, which he can't do without them. Narratively speaking, Shadow with 6 chaos emeralds should very obviously be well above Sonic. Shadow is Sonic's lesser, but not nearly by so much that Sonic is ever just sweeping him.
Moving on to 06, Shadow steps in to save Sonic and fight Silver, and I've seen some people use this to say that Shadow is Sonic's superior here, but it should be noted that
1: Silver has a chaos emerald here
2: Sonic is actively trying NOT to fight Silver because he's trying to save Elise
3: Sonic has already beaten Silver in their first fight and judging by how the cutscene goes, it wasn't even a close fight. Sonic TRASHED him and only gets overwhelmed in the end because, again, Elise can't stay uncaptured for longer than 3 minutes
This is getting long so let me hasten things...
Generations: Sonic beats Shadow AND Shadow doesn't even try to involve himself in the fight with the Time Eater, which implies that Shadow either didn't think he could hang in that fight at all, or he just didn't see a point because he knew Sonic and little Sonic would win easily (which they did, to be fair)
Forces: Shadow isn't around for a good chunk of it, but again he leaves the fighting of Infinite to Sonic and the CC which implies he either didn't think he could make much of a difference, or he didn't think they needed him
Frontiers: Sonic in this game is a different breed compared to his other game iterations so I don't think Shadow is messing with him at all.
This would normally be the point where I got into Archie and IDW but again, this is already getting pretty lengthy. That said, Archie is about the place where it becomes a lot more contentious. I'll let someone else fight that battle
TLDR though: At least as far as the games go, Sonic WAY outclasses Shadow to the point that even with one chaos emerald on hand, Shadow still consistently loses to a base Sonic.
Couldn't read of all it but wasn't shadow created to be a hedgehog because gerald saw that prophecy of eggman and super sonic, so he would have what sonic would already have in the future? It's two parallels colliding like who's really the faker
@@Topaz_1z Yeah there are a ton of theories backed by the game's lore that suggest that Shadow is based on that mural. Shadow even says in the Final Hazard fight that he thinks Sonic is the original ultimate life form, implying that he thinks he really is just a copy of Sonic.
@@meowsquared I really wish that narrative went somewhere. SA2 left a loose end that was just never followed up on. It would have been a banger finale for the Sonic series to conclude that plotline.
@@SonGoku-bg1frYeah Shadow even admits in the end of the game that Sonic might be the real ultimate lifeform and it does make sense. In terms of speed, Shadow has to use those shoes to compare to Sonic natural speed. His super form looks like an inferior version of Sonic's, looking more sliver than gold.
It was very clear they were implying he was the faker and he accepts it in the end. Doesn't mean he can't outshine the original sometimes though as shown in Shadow the hedgehog.
Yea but this is debunked by shadows inhibitor rings suppressing his true power. We’ve seen the kind of boost he gets from taking them off and had he taken them off in any of their fights sonic would lose.
Editing is great and that edit had me
Nah that chose your fighter sequence went CRAZY
I'm SAYIN
Dude, please do more videos like these. This is so good.
When I was younger, I adored shadow. He was just the absolute epitome of COOL to my young smooth brain. Those black and red quills, the drippy moon stompers, the rings, everything. My mother once bought a pair of roller skates just so I could look like shadow running.
Been waiting for this one all day
Ha, I liked the Six Video Screen, it was really good and funny. I dig it! I hope you do that again Six.
Until we see Shadow again (I HOPE Frontiers gives us that kind of DLC), Sonic has so much of an advantage. Not to mention his "Super Sonic 2" form.
Definitely your best video yet
Adventure 2's second fight can be interpreted much more evenly, but still in favor of Sonic. Sonic's win objective is not defeating Shadow but reaching the cannon in a race which may be more canonical as both ShaTH and SGen's treatment of the battle and neither characters are bothered by the outcome considering Shadow was starting to fear Sonic was the true Ultimate Lifeform.
That said in narrative of SA2 it can be interpreted that both are the Ultimate Lifeform with Shadow being made in the control of a lab and Sonic being the product of the chaos of the world.
Shadow's objective was defeating Sonic though, and he clearly failed at that (and he's nowhere to be seen after the fight until Final Story, meaning he must have been defeated otherwise, he'd probably still cause some issues)
Sonic lore aside, this is one of the best edited videos I've ever seen. Literally just your voice and images and effects and boom, it's honestly one of the best videos I've seen on RUclips
With Shadow Generations on the way, I would love to see another round of this
5:34 bro dropped the cleanest shadow edit
This thought just came to me as Six was talking about their different arsenals. There is a STRONG argument to be made that Sonic should be able to easily replicate any ability that Shadow has. All of Shadow's special abilities are chaos based, and between the two, Sonic has demonstrated a better inherent understanding of Chaos than Shadow has. Sure, Shadow has more chaos abilities readily at his disposal, but Sonic's feat with the fake emerald, combined with his better proficiency with the Super form indicates that Sonic is far better at intuitively using the chaos emeralds and chaos-related powers than Shadow is.
It's more likely that Sonic could use any abilities that Shadow can, but just doesn't as they don't really suit his style. If that's the case, then Shadow's chaos control just wouldn't work against a serious Sonic since he'd just match it with his own. Any of Shadow's offensive abilities like chaos spear, chaos lance, or chaos blast would easily be matched by Sonic just using his own alternatives like Sonic wind or some variations, assuming Sonic doesn't just dodge them entirely through raw speed.
Now one thing that Six said that I disagree with is that their super forms should be an equal amp. I think Sonic has repeatedly shown that his Super form is just outright superior and/or more complete than Shadow's or Silver's. Sonic can maintain it for longer, can summon the emeralds from a long distance to transform (Unleashed), and can seemingly share his power with others to MAKE them turn super (Heroes and 06). These are all abilities that at least demonstrate a higher proficiency with chaos powers and the super form which shadow hasn't really shown any relativity to. Even if we take all of this and just say "more skill doesn't equal more power", which I think is a bit goofy considering everything else, Sonic would just outlast Shadow even if he didn't seem to have such a big disparity in stats and combat skills.
That said, I think i do strongly agree with a lot of the conclusions that are made here. I just have slight disagreements with some of the 'why' arguments.
Is hyper sonic canon to the mainline game
@@edehyoungthug5887 Nah. The events of Sonic 3 and Knuckles are canon but Hyper Sonic seemingly got retconned out. So when talking about combat scaling Hyper Sonic tends to get left out of the discussion beyond just being a neat talking point.
Sonic has better chaos emerald experience but shadow has inherent chaos abilities. If it came down to using the emeralds though, sonic would always win.
@@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy Yeah, Shadow has a lot of innate abilities but Sonic has been rocking with the emeralds for a long time and has earned their allegiance time and time again. If it came down to a battle of wills with the emeralds, Sonic would probably win because he embodies the properties of chaos far more strongly than Shadow does.
That's also why I think Sonic could probably replicate any of Shadow's abilities with the emeralds. At the end of the day Shadow is just using his innate ability to harness chaos, which Sonic could probably do just as well if not even better.
Sonic doesn't even need chaos abilities to counter shadow's sonic has had immusurable speed feats since sonic CD anything that anyone in the verse let alone shadow can do with an emerald or any gem sonic can do by simply not holding his speed back,a super form battle is the only close fight and sonic simply has more experience and time in it,also if we go composite sonic can just stack super sonic 2 and if shadow is REALLY that strong he'll go cyber super sonic and one shot shadow at least out of super form(whereas sonic stayed in super form after losing the cyber powers).
15:21 This editing is so good 😂
I also wasn’t expecting you to touch on Dark Spine Sonic.
Sonic in general just has better narrative portrayal, better feats, and most of the time he fights shadow, he’s not even bloodlust.
I don’t think Shadow is very far off, but I say Sonic wins 70 percent of the time.
The editing is the best I’ve ever seen, so goated
Regarding the 06 Sonic statement Sonic “being the only one that can banish its living flames” is & got taken out of context. Its important to remember Solaris is stated to be a multidimensional being, that existed within the past, present, & future, and couldn’t be beaten by one or two hedgehogs alone, which makes sense logically. This is why Shadow said Sonic needed to be alive. In order to defeat Solaris, in simple terms, it had to be beaten within the past, present, and future at the same time, so intern the 3 hedgehogs, who were the only one’s who could manipulate/restore time) were needed.
This is the real reason why they needed sonic to return, not because he was the only one that could stop it, (banish it’s flames) That’s like 06 mentioning that Elise was the only one that could keep Iblis’s flames contained and still live, (blaze died trying to contain it, and it rejected silver) therefore by that statement alone, Elise using her strength to contain it and not cry, makes her stronger than most of the verse, which in reality statements similar like this, is simply taken out of context and unfortunately is not to be taken at face value. From an unbiased viewpoint, Sonic & Shadow most likely are equal overall
Exactly, 💯Makes sense, I’m glad someone like you caught that, very thorough explanation regarding statements like that. Was also thinking the same thing👍 From an unbiased viewpoint as well, a lot of people don’t often realize that using the guidebooks as direct statements for comparisons isn’t to be taken at face value, because unfortunately at the end of the day, it’s nothing concrete and in reality, it isn’t seriously supported by Sega. So it’s gonna lead to speculation ultimately
Exactly
From an unbiased standpoint, sonic is significantly higher than shadow and this vod proves it. He literally used material from the straight official sources and creators and you just say "nah their even". Thats disengenuious of you. Again theres a reason eggman only cared about sonic being out of commission and never mentioned shadow once.
@@Replies.Delete.SometimesIDKy there's even more material saying shadow is equal if not stronger
Way I see it Shadow is a bit stronger and has innate chaos powers while Sonic is a bit faster, but Sonic has a lot more experience and skill. It's his experience that puts Sonic above Shadow more often than not, but the two are close enough that either one can win a fight depending on how the plot needs to go.
My view on it is that Shadow, the game, shows Shadow COULD be stronger, but because Sonic is more consistently fighting these crazy things and Shadow doesn't focus on that kind of lethality, Sonic has pulled ahead. If Shadow had a game of just, focusing on killing Sonic I think he could get to that level but he doesn't and has no reason to.
Bro this editing style got me so hype and my favorite game series im so blessed today
@sixfromtokyo Now Imma be honest, I agree with the overall result especially with Frontiers involved, but I think you may have overlooked a few details that make things a bit more equivalent and I think this is especially the case with 06. Now we can both agree that in speed during 06 Sonic is ludicrously faster then even Shadow and thrashed Silver base to base whereas Shadow struggled, but to say Shadow had to use his chaos boost against Silver may be a reach too far when the narrative makes a big deal of him using the form in 06 during the Mephiles confrontations and this goes especially for the first battle when Shadow had no idea for a good bit how to bring Mephiles out of his shadow. Then when Mephiles pulls out the double emeralds and reveals he's absorbed his former self as well from the past, Shadow elevates things to the complete removal of the inhibitor rings showing narratival escalation, but only in response to Mephiles, not Silver. And again, with Silver, Shadow wasn't interested in killing him tbh, and was focused on subduing him. Next with the Solaris issue it should be reiterated that Solaris's unique existence required three super hedgehogs to beat him across past, present, and future at the same time. Hence, the emphasis on bringing Sonic back to life, now moving forward we have Colors DS with Omega comparing Shadow to Sonic so it's not like Shadow lags behind in successive titles. Hell, in Generations Sonic needs to absorb the purple meteor energy to make a decisive blow to Shadow for the W whereas even with boost they just clash into each other without either making any notable progress in a fight. And mind you, this is only base to base, no chaos transformations (honestly Chaos Boost from 06 is literally Shadow mastering the chaos forms from his standalone game as he can use chaos blast, chaos snap which is essentially him teleporting around to attack like chaos control without an emerald or the need to have a particular mental state/moral alignment), removal of inhibitor rings, or anything of that nature. Whereas with Silver, Sonic finessed him in Generations albeit in the sense of skill finessing as the goal in beating Silver is to hit him directly and not to try to be gung ho and fight against his raw telekinetic power (who I feel is probably stronger then Shadow on raw ap, barring perhaps a Shadow without his inhibitor rings). Now in Forces it should be noted that Shadow was trapped in la la land when Eggman went gunning for Sonic with Infinite which may explain the lack of emphasis on Shadow since it was not long ago when Eggman considered Shadow a thorn in his side when he invaded Eggman's base in the Infinite flashback. Moving forward, I'd contend that despite Sonic not necessarily being scared of fake Shadow charging him he still felt he could only react by blocking in a really oh $hit I'm about to get hit kind manner rather then a proper block which implies that the attack was gonna happen so fast he couldn't think of any other strategy on the fly beyond a mostly subconscious keep away gesture. So Shadow and Sonic should still be somewhat close even in Forces base to base tbh. In the end, I believe Sonic wins due to greater speed and craftiness 6/10 times, but Shadow has wincons via greater raw ap more often then not when doing a base to base match, super form versus super form however, I think Sonic wins narratively and Hyper speaks for itself. So again, I must reiterate that I ultimately agree with the end result here, but not quite the gap you're portraying between Shadow and Sonic on a base to base basis.
The editing is absolutely incredible!
This was a great video with amazing editing. Just a few thoughts from me:
I think the angle that Sonic 06 was trying to get at wasn’t that Sonic was the strongest, more that all the hedgehogs were comparable. While it is true Sonic was able to knock down Silver in comparison to Shadow stale mating him, Silver still almost killed Sonic prior to shadows encounter on round 2 with seemingly equal footing once again.
While this can be chalked up to just the extreme nature of Silver fights (basically Silver just needing one opening to end a fight with anyone he battles) it still shows that Silver IS capable of beating Sonic and shadow stale mated him.
Another thing is that you said Giganto cant hurt Super Sonic which is false. Giganto can one hit kill Super Sonic if he eats him. Showing that Super Sonic can be damaged by extremely powerful attacks.
Besides those few things, this was spot on. Awesome video.
That didnt chance anything so idk why u said that
Great vid bro killing it per usual
I genuinely wanna take some time to appreciate the level of care and detail that’s been going into the editing for the last couple of months. Six you have truly been carrying with the consistency and top tier editing. Thank you fam!
What a W video 10/10 quality 10/10 explanation and a 10/10 franchise to talk about well done king 🔥
BRO the editing here is ELITE
As a response for round 3 in this video, while I agree that Sonic wins here you are misinterpreting Mephiles's goal, he did not send silver because he doubted his ability to take out Sonic or anything like that. He did so because this distraction led Elise to getting captured, Sonic saving her, them growing closer, etc. Eggman even says Mephiles played them ALL for fools, meaning Eggman capturing yet repeatedly was something Mephiles wanted. This is what led to them growing close enough that Elise would cry from his death.
That jjk delirious ost mix is hard af for round 4, great vid btw keep eating
Gotta make a correction to the Solaris section. The reason they needed sonic is because they had to fight Solaris in the past present and future at the same time. They actually fight it solo in all three time lines.
Edit: man there's no way you actually tried to use time stop from vs mode as an actual feat lol
time stop and break are literally secret rings abilities,doesn't even matter since base sonic has immesurable speed feats.
Very true
I love your videos, thank you for taking the time to research everything into detail
I'm surprised you didn't mention Shadow's super strength.
Also, the other Sonic abilities you mentioned were one offs that were either multiplayer exclusive, exclusive to the particular environment (Time Break only exists in Secret Rings' Storybook), or quirky bonus abilities. There's a reason why no one ever mentions Magic Hands as a Sonic exclusive feat lol
I'm also unsure that the Prima Guides are reliable sources of information for things like this, to be honest.
Sonic and Shadow's correlation has always been one of natural talent and intuitiveness, vs trained skill and artificial abilities, respectively. In every instance that they share a game, Sonic is only ever better stat-wise when it comes to speed; on paper, Shadow should beat Sonic every time, but Sonic will almost always find a way to come out on top, due to his prodigious nature, and intuitive flexibility, skill and potential.
🎯
Shadow super strength? Look, I don't see much difference in strength between Sonic and Shadow, taking into account the games, which are canonical. I don't think there's any difference between them in this regard.
@@ep6713 There's a mechanic in Shadow the Hedgehog where Shadow lifts heavy machinery/objects to clear a path. Sonic has never displayed the ability to do that, in games, or in cutscenes.
@@AwijoshSunI understand. But I don't think it's a very considerable feat, since we don't know if Sonic would have difficulty doing the same, it's somewhat subjective, I don't know if it would be a a considerable difference between them just because of this.
@@ep6713 Well we know that Shadow can, and that Sonic hasn't. The point of the mechanic was to show the ability. Sonic has never had such a mechanic in the games, other than pushing the occasional rock. You can argue that Sonic could do that all you want, but it wouldn't mean anything without it actually being emphasized on screen. Sonic isn't as physically strong as Knuckles, and no one questions that.
The editing is so beautiful on this
I gotta say this is your best video yet. And i know part of that reason has to do with my undying love for Sonic and the 2000s games (when the series wsnt afraid to be shonen), but it also has to do with your editing. The topic was decently researched, the music was kickass FIRE, and your arguments were sound. I dont think this fight actually gets enough serious attention either, which is weird considering it was almost as notoriously argued about as Goku vs Vegeta in the playgrounds.
This was a sick video. Keep it up. I really found it entertaining, which i can't say for a lot of vs videos these days.
You’re definitely wrong about the Last Story of Sonic 06.
The context for those lines is that Silver just learned that Solaris needs to be defeated in the Past, Present and Future at the same time, and so was trying to see if Silver and Shadow with their Super forms can do it on their own.
Shadow is saying they don’t have the third person to defeat Solaris on all 3 points. Honestly, that line makes it seem like they’re all equal than saying Sonic is superior to them both.
This is even supported by their lines against Solaris Phase 2.
This video went CRAZY 🔥
11:54 i think shadow was more so referring to the fact they needed sonic to fight in all 3 time periods (tho that still confirms him the best choice minus shadow or silver bare minimum) but yea he was likely the only one who could finish solaris since elise and him did right after
Amazing video Six!
I think especially after frontiers where super sonic was shown superior to the end in one ending, plus super sonic 2, cyber super sonic and hyper sonic, makes it clear that shadow would lose
I still think "The End" is stronger than Sonic. Its the first time Sonic had to actually damn near kill himself just to win against one of The End's many bodies which are possibly stronger than that. He won but fuckin barely (with the help of Master King and the others).
I wish they portraited The End more like how they did with Beerus in Battle of Gods (by Goku not actually winning and having the Antagonist leaving on their terms). It would have been a nice change of pace and even meta-commentary from the usual easy Super Sonic sweeps.
@@justcallmekai1554tbf while sonic was knocked out temporarily he immediately gets up after hitting earth from a distance higher than the atmosphere and detransforming(aka he's going at terminal velocity from outer spacs,hits the ground in base after the "exhaustion" and gets up like nothing),if the end was still alive after the last attack super sonic could've picked himself back up.
Super Sonic 2 and Cyber Super Sonic were forms straight-up gifted to Sonic by someone else. Who's to say Master King Koco is incapable of giving it to Shadow? Not that it matters since Sonic lost access to those forms after he pushed himself.
Also Hyper Sonic isn't canon.
Neither ending was said to be canon however the game does outright say that the DLC is an alternate take on the story. Regardless, the first ending shouldnt just get disreagrded so super sonic still scales to the end in some way, shape or form and in the first ending, sonic didnt have to go so far to win.
Shadow is stronger for sure but I’d say sonic is slightly faster. Shadow just has more hax but sonic is really good at improvising.
Six really just talks about all the shit I love. Naruto, Starwars, Jjk, Dragonball, and Sonic. Goated Creator fr
The debate of history shit is like goku vs vegeta
Except Goku VS Vegeta is a Fair Fight,this is a Low-Mid Diff Beatdown
@gabrielmachado1247 What no it isn't Shadow is equal if not stronger than Sonic
@@AbdalSamad1 Nope,Sonic is legit above shadow and its not debatable
@@gabrielmachado1247 I can debate it right now
@gabrielmachado1247 prove its that low Shadow gives Sonic lots of difficulties every fight. Every fight sonic won he was amped in.
Shadow never used his dark,hero,chaos boost or without rings forms against Sonic.
A chaos super shadow would steam roll Super Sonic only Hyper Sonic beats Shadow
I really enjoyed the video and yhe editing was really good and entertaining
As for 06 I would like to mention towards the end Shadow could be referring that they need Sonic to fight Solaris in the present and not so much that Sonic being that much Superior to him or silver. Solaris as a being who exists in the past,present,and future would be impossible to defeat in a traditional way. Like say Shadow died instead of Sonic then Sonic and Silver would still lose as they would have no way of defeating Solaris in the past. They literally have to kill Solaris at all three points of time at the same time in order to win.
Generally how I see it for the most part if where just talking about the games and consistency Sonic and Shadow are extremely relative but Sonic having the slight edge due to having more feats. It's not a stomp in either favor but due to Sonic Generally having better showings he wins more often then not. However if we do take Sonic Prime and idw in consideration you can pull a greater argument for Shadow as in both instances post forces Shadow gets one up over Sonic and presses him throughout the fight.
@StevenHolt-wr5owYes since Time Eater could pull events from the already destroyed timeline that had Iblis in it.
I love that you do sonic and shadow with the same seriousness that you do everything else.
Shadow was designed to be extremely powerful. Sonic might be extremely fast but most of his powers are limited to the setting (like ring skills he got in Secret Rings, the stuff in Sonic Prime, the cyberspace powers of Frontiers, the shoes of 06 [dude could literally buff his speed in that game like no sh!t he was outrunning silver have you met silver?], most equipment from the adventure games, etc.) Shadow's powers would be a b!tch to program them all at the same time and would probably make the game too easy so we tend to get a limited view of his abilities for plot reasons. As they used to say Sonic is as fast as Knuckles is strong. I believe the truest way to judge Sonic's abilities in frontiers is to see Sonic's strength at level 0 no upgrades no moves he gets from absorbing cyberspace glitchiness. They add to sonic but they only take away from shadow because if he had the drive he'd probably make sonic irrelevant outside of circumstances that demanded the extra power.
Being on guard for a shoot out would not make a bullet hurt any less, so I think you're wrong about knuckles knocking the super out of sonic as a fluke. Knuckles knows emerald energy, it's not like being super makes you completely invisible, you can still die from being crushed. Knuckles is just that stronk lol
Limited or not, sonic has a better utilization of his battle tactics and fighting style. That and sonic gets stronger over time, just look at frontiers.
Shadow may have MORE abilities, but sonic has proven that means little to him, time and time again.
Theyv already made shadows abilities isn games before so why would it now suddenly be a problem?
Love the new intro with the character selection 👌
I personally find it interesting that The Hedgehog Heroes can't actually stay aware constantly. You would think that with the ability to completely dominate time and distort perceptions of it, they could never get ganked, especially since they are generally Relativistic, casually. However, if I have a rock and hit Super Shadow with it, I can snap him out of his form, despite me being cinder block level. I hope that SEGA explains why Super Formes don't give pseudo-omniscience, since they should-IN BASE-be aware of anything they run past.
They could easily just say tunnel vision
A rock probably couldn't hit Super Shadow out of his form simply by hitting him normally, even if it catches him by surprise.
Knuckles is the guardian of the Master Emerald and is bonded to it, which is later shown to have power over the Chaos Emeralds including the ability to disrupt Chaos Energy temporarily.
It makes sense for him to have a trick up his sleeve that lets him actually do damage or cancel a Super if he gets the drop on them.
That said, yeah, it's a nice touch that they don't exaggerate super perception or reaction times that much.
You are not knocking Shadow out of Super just because he gets hit unaware by a rock. Unless you think Knuckles is only rock level in Sonic 3. But Knuckles is a powerhouse even in base because he canonically wins the fight against Super Mecha Sonic.
You know how a potara fusion that includes a god in db is permenant while even mortals with god ki still have a time limit,or how gojo's infinity literally manipulates and impacts the universe itself by deleting and adding masses and screwing with laws of physics but the scale of the manipulation it is so small it's basically uses the side effects of said manipulation in combat?That's like the condition for a super form's invincibility,it's omniscience in concept since the emeralds have no cap on their power but the power can be wasted by the user,the emeralds are only limited by the users immagination.
Also storytelling.
@@ahmadkazan5473 No, you can have immense durability completely without any omniscience or even extrasensory perception at all. Just because a power works on a fundamental concept doesn't mean it's possible to explore all facets of the fundamental concept through that power. It can be a one way street or have hard limits as well.
Using other universes where that may not be the case does absolutely nothing to imply anything about how this one works. For all we know Super formes might as well just be a flat or multiplicative speed, durability and power increase, not even necessarily by the same amount each or scaling from base power. Unless directly supported by things stated in Lore what you are saying is nothing but fanfiction.
Yoo the editing is fire
Great video and S-tier editing! Love seeing how the channel is evolving over the years. No reference for the music used in the description? There was a lot of nice choices used here. Wish you shared them!
The editing on this is really nice.
In adventure 2 Shadow canonically beat Sonic. Sonic would use his fake emerald in battle to warp but Shadow shouldn't be able to do it since he didn't have any at the time. I know abilities change in future installments but at the time he need a Chaos Emerald to warp
Jps adventure 2 guide in shadow story states sonic was holding back in the fight and no shadow never beaten sonic in arc fight even in sonic x came out as the winner and you can beat shadow as sonic in thr hero story so i don't see your point as for abilitys sonic now has many abilitys now plus cyber abilitys mean while shadow has chaos abilitys and in guides his shoes it what makes him fast not like sonic who is just normaly fast in any shoes people don't bring up sonic cronacols ds shadow admits sonic is faster than him
@rimurutempest9733 In game events take priority in regards to Canon as compared to third party released strategy guides that were not written by the developers and therfore do not feature their intentions. In Sonic X shadow is only knocked down in their arc battle, he isn't incapacitated. Later in the series he has not one but two decisive victories over Sonic. One in his regular form and the second at the finale in his Super form. Seeing as it was at the end of the series, Sonic X supports that Shadow is the better fighter.
@@deadstrider wrong again they do bc they are released by sega and not once did they say shadow better fighter lol and shadow never beaten sonic in his super form tf you on about kid your pulling shit out your ass now and sonic has always faced shadow never blood lusted where shadow has and sonic beaten shadow in generations before tf and shadow admited sonic faster and guides says shadow hover boots makes him fast and don't talk of cannon before we debate that bc ik someone on RUclips that makes vids on what's cannon he also debates to
(Ok my damn message keeps getting deleted stupid RUclips)
Considering shadow wanted to actually end sonic and sonic is still well and good, i doubt that.
I can't wait for a future vs. battle video to take place in Troy's Prison Complex 😂😂
That Shadow edit was kinda hard tho lol
This editing is insane
One of, if not the best on your channel🔥🔥
Can you do Shadow vs Silver? I was debating this with someone today.
It's no use! Where's that DAMN fourth Chaos Emerald?
I do think silver wins, but shadow could win cuz of silvers lack of experience..
Insane editing. Huge props
Bro did people watch the 06 Shadows story. 06 Shadow is more powerful than Sonic purely due to more hax. I don’t think he’s as fast(definitely not as fast without his shoes) but he’s definitely more powerful. I don’t think it’s a stomp however.
I think shadow with high diff sonic if both we’re trying their best after a very long battle. Sonic would have the advantage in speed. No chaos emeralds.
If that was the case then those hax wouldve helped him win liyerally anytike theyve ever fought. And yet in EVERY CANON FIGHT (yes you can check) sonic won every single one. So obviously the hax doesnt help him much. Besides sonic forces kinda puts this debate to rest. The only person eggman was concerned with is sonic. He never not once cared about shadow. If shadow was really that nuch of a problem, he wouldve cared about him too.
The editing is crazy
Is darkspine really low multiversal?I have seen people scaling base secret rings sonic to complex multiversal.
Where's the scans?
Yo the editing in this was crazy
I just remembered that in the entire franchise we only see in Sonic X anime a fight between Super Sonic and Super Shadow
Broooo the production on this vid is next level six