@@deoxxysdrastic doesn’t mean good, these changes essentially just keeps the tanks from immediately exploding, it doesn’t address the fundamental issues of counter swapping, regardless of whether or not a tank explodes the counter still hard counter, zarya will always be better than dva now zarya is bulkier and may even be able to get another bubble off mid fight, rein can still get walked by mauga, ball still gets countered by sombra. I like they are focusing on helping tanks but it doesn’t fix the fundamental issues
I don’t know if it’s gonna be perfectly balanced but I think this could be a good start. The only way they could go back to 6v6 is if they had an AI control one tank on each team and it would either pick an off tank or a main tank based on what the real tank player picks. That way there’d be no double shield and no games where you lose because both your tanks picked off tanks.
I don't think this will save the tank role, maybe I've watched too much Samito recently but I feel like this won't make tank fun to play just less depressing
@@Gekk0eand all the other streamers are biased towards sucking off blizzard so they can go to all the events instead of talking about the problems with the game.
I'm surprised that Flats didn't mention Doomfist. His shotgun would be nerfed with this, and his punch wouldn't push tanks into walls as easily. That seems like really important nerfs for Doom, as you could now do something like couterpicking with rein because he has armor. you would just be winning most trades with doom. This is especially important because doom's main damage is his primary. Glad that Flats is pleased with what changes are being made, as he is usually pretty good at making calls about what is happening to overwatch.
So not only is it a nerf to his damage but his survivability is tied to his damage so less damage = less healing and less crit damage means less temp health So he might actually be getting a buff vs this or his force crits wont be affected
It's so funny to ne, I was listening to your discussion video on "how to fix tanks" were you were looking at suggestions on your Twitter post, and then this shows up on my feed when I'm leaving. As a Rein one trick I'm very excited for these changes
Mauga got buff as well. Think about it. With less damage from headshot receive, he survives better. Although his pellet does slightly lesser damage, you also have to consider the fact that his damage bypass the headshot damage reduction because his damage multiplier is base on hitting target on fire and not on headshot, which evening out the damage lost from armor. TL;DR; His damage evens out, but he get better survivability and more hp regen.
I play both tank and dps about the same amount, and my dps mains are rat and hanzo. overwatch has been a living hell lately but today is super exciting
As I understand it, Armor currently only reduces damage up to the quantity of armor you have. If you have 100 hp and 100 armor, that 100 armor can only eat 130 damage, not simply blocking 30% of whatever damage you have incoming. So it's effectively 30% more EHP that's easier to heal.
reaper is dead against tanks with armour cause of the armour changes and he deals 25% less for a headshot on tanks. currently reaper does 216 dmg if all pellets were a to hit headshot (for normal health only), I did a lot of math (hopefully correctly) and with the tank changes he will only do 87 dmg if all pellets were a to hit headshot (for armour health only), idk if it actually possible to have every pellet be a headshot due to spread so this could be lower and with the maths I did if all pellets were a body shot it's 54 dmg with the armour reduction and 162 dmg if all pellets were to be a headshot shot (for normal health). reminder these numbers are exclusive to tanks, pls correct me if I'm wrong and all these numbers are with out fall off btw
and 5v5 defenders will gaslight people into thinking that balance changes was a 6v6 problem and not balance problems. they're the type of mf's to change their tiers when their engine breaks down
Sorry but the only good thing to come out of the mismanaged fires of ow2 was cutting it down to 5v5. One of the only right choices theyve made and then they insisted on making it progressively more miserable to play to where ppl dont see the difference bc both 6v6 and current ow2 feel like ass to play
Fun fact: I'm not playing anymore ow since season 2 for many reason, but i still like to follow some gameplay and improvements of the game. What is funny? In a survey i asked for a damage reduction passive in season 2 for tanks, now the fact that they are actually doing that after many years, just blow my mind. Now i'm curious to see that in action
Just a 1.5 or 2 second speed boost ability for Rein is all I’d want. Don’t care how long they want the CD. Hopefully these changes here are all he needs… but when it’s not. Just let the guy move a bit faster. Make it an a passive on hits or ability uses, anything for him to not be countered by walking backwards or requiring a Lucio. Am I the crazy one to ask for this? Maybe so.
I was going to complain that ball is yet again getting indirectly nerfed, BUT THEY ACTUALLY FINALLY GAVE US DAMAGE BUFFS THANKYOUUUU I CAN PLAY THE GAME AGAIN THANKYOUUUUUU
All this patch does is make Reaper unplayable and I'm not exaggerating. His last remaining value was shoehorned into tank-busting, just for the devs to say "fuck you" and remove that too.
Yeah I just don't care anymore, lost count of how many characters and playstyles they've killed in this "sequel", most recently junkrat becoming a useless piece of trash, the entire off tank role, mercy's passive being powercrept onto literally everyone and her entire existence being replaced by kiriko.... if you're still choosing to play this game after all the dumbassery you should just expect theyre gonna keep slowly ruining the game and killing the characters you love with horrible balance changes. This is barely even a game just a battle pass and microtransaction dress up simulator.
GIVE JUNKRAT HIS COMBO SHOT BACK! This would be HUGE for the few Junkrat mains who are left and have been sticking it out ever since the health pool changes ruining the character completely.
BALL BUFFS WERE BEYOND UNECESSARYYYYYYYYY AAAHHH (Coming from a Widow main who has Ball's focus 9 times outta ten, so yes I do understand I'm very biased lol)
Finally a ball minefield change after the health changes. Ever since the change 2 mines wouldn't kill someone on full health, and if they were full and being spammed healing my record was someone just walking through 4 mines without dying.
It’s wild they said Reaper when he does not feel good to play. His role is to pump high damage into the frontline and yet he can’t do that. So you play him flank surprise style but supports have multiple second chance abilities. I swear I rarely if ever see a Reaper - even when there’s a Winston.
90% of characters dont feel good to play in ow2 not just reaper. I just wonder if the people crying about reaper felt the same when junkrat lost his two shot flank playstyle, hanzo and mei lost their entire identity, sombras old playstyle, the entire off tank role got deleted and all tanks have been made into the same boring ass gameplay, mercy's passive got powercrept onto literally everyone and she got powercrept out of the game and replaced by kiriko. Like we care now, why? Thats been the game for years at this point, if you're still choosing to play the game you should just accept the fact that theyre gonna keep ruining all the characters
@@ironman1458 True. I was commenting on Reaper because that’s the example they gave. Kiriko is my most hated character in the game and I don’t understand how she hasn’t been touched. The fact that Suzu counters so much on a short cool-down is wild to me. Anti and burning? Fine that makes sense. But cleanse away a pulse bomb? That’s dumb. I don’t think they can fix their balancing without a complete gutting of what they have.
@@commandoch12i5 I wouldn't be so sure. IMO 6v6 is clearly on the table, and they are rather exhausting the balancing fiasco that is 5v5 to see if its even plausible to continue with it. I think if this next season flops, 6v6 will be around the corner. Season 9 gave them hope that 5v5 is possible, but with the ultimate ending due to that patch being the lackluster season 10, I wouldn't be surprised if they were still looking at 6v6. Also, keep in mind queue times were one of the biggest reasons to go to 5v5, and look at this past season's queue times. I'd argue we're in for a ride (more 5v5 patches) with a hopeful destination (return to 6v6). If they determine 6v6 is more profitable, they will go to it. I think we, not only could, but will see that happening by the end of the year. If not, at least a test game mode by then.
Honestly really really happy about queen being buffed here. The shout cooldown always felt like it was just barely too long to be usable everytime you dueled somone. Now i can actually stop hiding in cover constantly woo!
OH SURE NO CAP FOR SURE THIS TIME IT'S FOR REAL REAL WE ARE SAVED. Come on now guys, let's turn our brains on. We are going to go back to square one no matter what we do - it's a format issue, not a balance issue. Tank is going to feel shit no matter what. Let's just get used to it.
As a tank player, I’m getting tired of the “bring back 6v6” conversation. Tank hasn’t been changed enough in OW2 to warrant a format change yet. This is a good move that will alleviate pain points in playing tank atm, however it will need more tuning later on
Now that passive heal is a thing and tanks get better passive heal, i think support passive needs to change. Im not saying its bad, its still very strong, but it doesnt feel unique anymore and it encourages solo-play on behalf of the supports. I think they could come up with a support passive that encouraged team-play, and that would help in part to bring down the power level of the very strong dps-support playstyle without killing it or direct nerfs
I'll tell you what the problem is, most of the Overwatch community knows what role They play dps And dps are toxic They want to be able to kill everything with one shot They don't like the tank role because it can't be killed right away At least in the beginning like this You've seen they are the biggest part of the community they have to be accommodated the others have to suffer with the supporting characters being the middle ground and the tangibly being the last wheel of the wagon
If Rein, Ball, Queen, and Winston are strong that's cool with me. Skill heroes should be strongest and crutch heroes can be perma relegated to specialists and low ranks.
As much as i enjoyed some tankmatches in the past, i always thougth tanks in OW were weird. Tanks are just big dps with more health, barely any of them aktuelly does what a tank does in an rpg. Tanks should be the ones taking the aggro / making it so that the other team is forced or incentivised to hit him, but he shouldnt do much dmg and just suupport his team / inconveniene the enemies aka cc them in some form...
we tank players really need reduced CC duration on our role passive, these survival buffs are great but i don't want to be paralyzed in every teamfight just because im big
My ramattra is going to love this change, boy is beefy as hell but headshots are his goddamn kryptonite Now DPS players will suffer as i have suffered.
You could say that for the game right now and literally any other point in the game’s existence though. In fact you could say that for just about any role-based pvp fps
@@anya-qr4qb I know you can survive without your shield but if you’re standing behind a corner then you’re not tanking for your team obviously, best just not to let your shield go down unless absolutely necessary
So the solution to ow2 is making tanks immortal and their positioning no longer matters? This just devalues all other roles and tank will still not be fun bc theres no skill in never being able to die
@@R4G3_QuitI think it’s less you can’t die and more like you won’t walk into a fight and die in like 3 seconds. You’re complaint is overreacting my guy
@R4G3_Quit Hyperbole much? The Armour change alone simply alters what Heroes will be more & less effective against some Tanks, not to mention all other Armoured Heroes. Hitting HS's with Tracer and the like will be key to doing any meaningful damage against Armoured foes. Just means her ilk will need to pick their targets, focus on the Unarmoured ones first. Leave Burning down Armoured foes to heroes like Widow or Phara, direct hit Rockets will be doing more damage with this change after all. Think about it, high damage attacks will be doing more damage overall, even with the -25% HS damage and -5 damage from armour, a Widow, Cass or Ashe HS will still be doing more total damage than before. It just means all Armoured Heroes can shrug off less potent attacks like Tracers Pulse Pistols but need to be wary of Phara Rockets, Widow shots and the like. -50% KB is nice, but it's only KB. Tanks will still be just as vulnerable to other CC effects as everyone else. It's not the end of the world mate. Even Tracers Pulse Bomb will do more damage overall, especially if you land the stick on the large tank target. Some Tanks, like non-armoured ones, will feel more suited to the role with the -25% HS reduction. Ultimately making those non-armoured tanks more viable in the role as a result. Which will give the role more variety overall. These are good, well balanced changes that aren't overpowred. Each of them addressed an issue and has great option's for counterplay to off set any advantage vs another specific attack type. Railgun shots will do more damage to both the head and body of any armoured target too. Stop being so pessimistic and cosider the wider array of options available for taking down armoured targets with these changes. Counter swap will be more detaioled than just countering the enemy tank. That's a great change in of itself alone
In a character-based game with the ability to swap, you're going to see counter swapping. Period. You cannot remove something like that from the game unless you remove the ability to change characters mid-match.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 sure, you can, but it's not as fun as just playing what you want and working with your team to make things work. Yes there will always be people who counterpick every game regardless but most people main a few characters only (because of lore or gameplay reasons) and get really good at them. A huge portion of the playerbase are drawn to the compelling character and world this game has, otherwise they would just be playing another shooter. So I think focusing on counterpicking and making it more impactful is going to alienate a huge chunk of their playerbase.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696ok but in 6v6 if u had a ball 1 trick and the enemy went sombra and hog, u could go zaria and bubble ur ball. and even if ur ball dies u still have 1 tank to hold front line, and since tanks weren't raid bosses back in ow1 if the enemy tank messed up he would get punished and die so even if u were down a tank u could come back. its called this wonderful thing called gamebalance, u should look into it sometime
I’m not so sure. If tanks are exploding less it’ll be easier to play around counter swaps. I’m mainly thinking about rein and jq. Like my biggest problem on rein has never been orisa it’s the absurd dmg of other heroes poking me down. Less dmg means I can play the game meaning I can have more freedom to work around a counter.
TL;DW Tank will have: -Knockback reduction up from 30 to 50% -Headshot DMG reduction 25% -Armor DMG reduction 5 DMG per projectile up to 50% For all: -Passive heal: from 20 HP/s to (10+5% of max HP)/ s Also: -Small buff for junk, echo, hanzo -JQ buff commanding shout, can now activate with Carnage or Rampage -Ball buff impact from swing 50->60, piledriver movement lockout 0.5->0.75s, minefield DMG up from 130 to 165 and knockback from 5 to 10 meters All will be here on May 14 See ya and let's make a great game!
the problem with the role is that its missing a player. thats like if 5v5 was 2 tanks, 2 dps, and 1 support. the support role would feel like dookie to play
@@iSuckAtGamesGG yes and no, the fundamental problems would be their kits, 80% of the tanks original kits were designed around 2 tanks and how they’ve adapted those kits to a single tank is the problem
@@Burkius the reason tank feels bad to play is because they can counter u, and because all the cd's go into u. back in ow1 if u had a ball 1 trick u could go zaria and prevent all his counters if u both played smart. and even if one of ur tanks is feeding u still had a tank to hold the front line that 2 support could... well support. now if ur tank is feeding its a gg go next. that and also 2 tanks were able to hold angles better than one so one shots were way less of a problem which is why in 5v5 they had to get rid of all the one shots (besides widow's op one shot)
@@Burkius actually only 50% (6/12) of the tanks were made with 2 tanks in mind, as JQ, Mauga and Ram are new in OW2 and Doom, Orisa and Roadhog got reworks in/during OW2. Also every tank has gotten balance changes over time to make them better fit the 5v5 gameplay
@@HietakissaThe reworks and the nummercal changes help, but don't address the fundamental limits of the characters. Older tanks just do less and offer less to the team.
The armor changes: But what is the most annoying thing to tanks? Minigun and shotgun heroes, so bastion, mauga, reaper and so on. They specifically nerfed those heroes with those changes
Right. The characters whose primary role was uhh... (checks notes) tank busting. The tank busters got nerfed against tanks. So they have less of an impact doing the thing that sets them apart from other characters... Lol yeah this game has no idea what it wants to be anymore. At this point they're just making changes to pander to streamers/youtubers in the desperate hopes that the free advertisement keeps them afloat.
@@aeonamadiperhaps they get buffed later after they assess the impact of these changes? A couple damage heroes being useless for awhile is a price I’m willing to pay for tank to not be miserable.
@@aeonamadi You can be a tank buster without deleting the tank. It's gotten to a point where a lot of tank players have to stop playing in the fight because the moment they do they cease to exist the moment their defensive abilities go away. It's good to change the game enough to keep how it feels fresh, nobody wants the same meta for seasons upon seasons. Maybe you enjoyed seeing Orisa/Mauga every game, but not everyone did. The game isn't even suffering that badly, and more than content creators were feeling the miserable life of being a tank player.
@@aeonamadino there making changes because tank has sucked and felt bad to play since season 2 I wouldn’t doubt if the entire tank player base has decreased
@@aeonamadi Reaper's main thing was never tank busting unless you're talking about early OW1, bastion is a cheesy character and can delete any squishy, a tank should be allowed to give their team a chance to fight back rather than player "peekaboo" simulator vs the bastion in turret form, Mauga's overhealth should be the same I think but the damage should be much lower until the armour is gone which isnt an issue vs most enemies except for orisa and Dva, to compensate allow mauga to ignite shields since tanks with shields tend to have armour or a secondary self sustain. Lastly i gotta agree with the fact that tracer is specifically known for 1v1ing tanks and is 100% used as a tank buster fr fr. Also im happy sombra can go die in a pit since her smg will be much weaker vs tanks despite the virus still doing good dmg.
Flats and others legit get excited over receiving sprinkles for their birthday. This patch is just sprinkles, it changes nothing about what makes Tank feel awful.
@@quiteslayer4067 they said in their notes that they kept hearing that tanks explode to quickly or last too long, so their response is to reduce damage taken and increase regen? Those aren’t the issue it’s all the cc and support abilities that are the issues, in masters and above tanks are just going to live longer and dps is going to rely more on hitscan then ever before l.
@@ismaelvillalobos4949 well yea, ofc that’s what’s gonna happen, anytime u strengthen one role another isn’t going to be as effective. That’s how balancing works. Just cause tank is the one being buffed doesn’t change that fact of buffing a role. Besides, a tank is supposed to hard to kill, that’s like the whole thing.
@@quiteslayer4067 that’s the thing though only a handful of tanks are gonna benefit from this that’s if they benefit from it at all, abilities as awhile across the board are to strong
I'm sorry but I have to see this practice in action. This "we're so back" is getting more depressing as they continue to change things. Hopefully they can get on the right path.
because all Samito does is bitch and complain 24/7. I like the guy but damn every single video of his nowadays is him just shitting and crying over 5v5. I like 6v6 better too but damn bro we get it, you want it back.
@@tombra3059I played ow1 and although tank wasn’t my fav role at the time (ex dps doom main), 6v6 felt infinitely better. the role generally has less 1 tricks so that isn’t an issue as much as the other 2 roles. and ppl complaining about tank synergies “being too strong”were just shit at the game . tank synergies made the game feel so rewarding if anything. also the ppl who complained about double shield, it was not the two shields that made it unbearable, it was bap brig and sig orisa sustain abilities that were the problem, not the shields. dev team just has no idea how to balance the right things (as we are seeing with 5v5)
Tanks will not be fun to play, yeah other roles will suck more but consider this. Tanks are more powerful so: -counter the tank is even more important -tank have more responsibility and is not allowed to fail -every role has a lower skill ceiling (hitting hs brings less value) -tanks have a lower skill floor -cd on tanks are still a problem
@@KiraMahManthat is a massive cope, making role braindead op doesn't make it fun, orisa was immortal, who liked her? Cringe deranged cheesers. This makes it even worse, now every tank can just press shift to go in, press another ability to be immortal, kill everything apart from tank and repeat, nobody except losers will like that. No strategy, why catch someone out of position or make space for DPS to do actual skillcheck, just hold W and win by holding left click with your eyes closed.
@@Burkius someone entire field of vision shouldn't be considered out in the open when her just being able to see me means 300 health just gets deleted A good widow just sits wherever TF she wants and can cram headshots like there's no tomorrow and lord forbid she gets a pocket so even more of my health disappears
I would really like to see Hog have his ultimate tweaked. It was already bad at 30%, but with 50% knockback resistance roadhog effectively gets a delete the tank button.
It’s really bad because it honestly takes 0 skill and thought to hook a tank and press Q in their general direction, but this is a hugely impactful play. It gives hog players massive dopamine hits for plays they didn’t earn and that’s ALWAYS been hogs problem. Now it’s even worse. Terrible
So the armor change is both good and bad. Against low damage per hot characters you will get more value out of it, but against higher damage per hit characters you will be taking more damage per hit. Widow will be doing more damage per headshot against tanks now, even with the headshot reduction due to the armor change. (Only 10 more damage but still) and if a character does 85 damage (arbitrary number) then not counting a headshot, but they will do more damage against armor targets than before. Against the damage that bastion does, the new damage difference is you take 1.4 less per shot or around 1.2 for tracer.
Wrecking ball mines are going to be insane now. Extra movement lockout on the knockup means it will be harder to escape from the mine + piledriver combo, AND THEY BUFFED MINE DAMAGE??? ball will be insane.
@@inherentlyflawedand it is insanity. They clearly don't play their game. I can't count how many times I literally hold left click on tanks head with probably like 30+ crit acc and that shit still doesn't die.. wtf do you even do now? You'd say, don't shoot tank, but there are far too many situations when you have to shoot tank.
@@inherentlyflawed What I meant is it's quite silly for Orisa since her point is to be unkillable. They had an opportunity for a good powershift but nah ..
I don’t think these changes will fix the issue of the core gameplay loop simply not being fun due to the added pressure of being the solo tank, countering will still be powerful. These changes will help in terms of balance and a sense of impact, but I seriously doubt it helps with making the game fun. I hope I’m wrong
Note on hog. Less knockback during ult, but also much less damage. His ult is pellets, not the larger projectiles. Sooo. At most, itll even out i think
its only vs armor that that matters but im betting it'll still come out to be a buff because the target flying away less means A L O T more dmg AND it'lll make going for a hook mid ult easier which is a death sentence to basically every tank in the game
@@angelstouge2195 yea uh as a hog main that hit high masters b4 his rework and still now, there is very little you can do to survive as a tank when i pop ult. hope your ana sleeps me, maybe attempt to survive as diva with matrix and flying away. but with the horse now dead im betting hogs finna eat the rest of the season
To be honest this isn't really fundamentally solving my issues with tanks were kinda just turning them all into big stat sticks with the headshot resistance. This isn't solving counterswapping It's arguably making the "big stat characters" worse This isn't solving tanks feeling like a resource conservation simulator. Tanks don't need to be more powerful they need to be more dynamic to play.
Yeah this was my first thought too. But what's worse is that while tanks will probably feel the same 'cause the core issues weren't solved, these changes also make life MORE annoying for the other roles.
Yes and no - It makes the non-number tanks more viable (Rein, Queen, Ball, etc.) without destroying the numbers tanks. It helps counter some counter swapping from OTHER roles like how Reaper and Bastion are every tank's nightmares, while also helping some One Tank Beats All like through Mauga (since armor halves his damage now). Mauga is a big stat guy who now has counterplay in the form of armored heroes, Orisa also does worse against armor now (but is still easily dealt damage through high damage shots). The only stats Tank you can say isn't made worse is Hog, except he's STILL a shotgun hero meaning significantly less damage against armored targets. They literally took out the stat heroes from being the only viable options which was MORE needed than solving counter swapping. A tank should have the effectiveness of two players. There's one tank, two dps, and two supports. The ENTIRE role is on one person, meaning they have double the expectations and should have double the effectiveness (whether to win or lose) as any other individual player. Currently, tanks are just toddlers walking around trying not to fall over by tripping on a leaf. We have dynamic tanks, they just can't play in the meta because of the gatekeeper stat tanks (which all get nerfed from this) and the speed at which they die either due to damage numbers or other factors. Rein, Queen, Winton, those are all dynamic but can be extremely hard to play, most specifically Rein and Queen. Tanks should TANK, not explode. They SHOULD have damage resistance and should NOT lose every 1v1 simply because they're against a shotgun hero or because someone pressed shift
It doesn't solve specific issues, but it does help. Btw, tanks do need to be more powerful. The last time tanks were meta was season 2. What's the point of taking every bullet and CC in my face if I can't carry the game? If that's the case, just go back to 6v6
does 25% less headshot damage mean the headshot multiplier is reduced by 25% or that it's actually 25% less? because that's a pretty big difference 100 damage + (100 headshot damage - 25%) = 175 damage or (100 damage + 100 headshot damage) - 25% = 150 damage
Honestly I had some matches where i was absolutely sweating with ball doing my absolute best and then there was this reinhardt with more kills and 5k more dmg than me sitting back with his teams swinging his hammer every now and then. Everytime id dive my team would get obliterated into oblivion
"Tank role is saved!"
2 weeks after patch:
"Overwatch 2's tanks still aren't fun"
I doubt it these are pretty dramatic changes.
@@deoxxys I think tanks will probably get a trim in the most egregious cases.
@@deoxxysdrastic doesn’t mean good, these changes essentially just keeps the tanks from immediately exploding, it doesn’t address the fundamental issues of counter swapping, regardless of whether or not a tank explodes the counter still hard counter, zarya will always be better than dva now zarya is bulkier and may even be able to get another bubble off mid fight, rein can still get walked by mauga, ball still gets countered by sombra. I like they are focusing on helping tanks but it doesn’t fix the fundamental issues
I don’t know if it’s gonna be perfectly balanced but I think this could be a good start. The only way they could go back to 6v6 is if they had an AI control one tank on each team and it would either pick an off tank or a main tank based on what the real tank player picks. That way there’d be no double shield and no games where you lose because both your tanks picked off tanks.
@@deoxxys the tank problems are caused by the format. making tanks super op doesn't fix the counter pick problem.
"We're so back" said before every balancing disaster.
Didn’t flats say that for the mauga release?
@@donovan4222 Flats has said this before every patch.
It’s just the same thing. Again. And again. And again.
@@mr.shreddergaming1940 poor guy keeps getting his hopes up
this fatazz needs to say we are so back every 5 minutes or blizzard will get angry with him
imagine trying to play reaper as a tankbuster after this one lmao, rest in peace reaper
tbf tho he is the next dps hero to get a rework so his time will come
@@robertsummers3360 i really hope so aha
You know he was known as a "tank buster" in OW1, he will still shred most tanks that don't have big armour pools
Rest in agony reaper
We are so NOT back, we are so far gone now
Tanks are getting buffed on my birthday, I've never been happier!
Happy early birthday :)
I'll come back and wish you happy birthday 😂
Enjoy youre birthday
🖤
Happy early birthday
I don't think this will save the tank role, maybe I've watched too much Samito recently but I feel like this won't make tank fun to play just less depressing
The only thing that will make Samito happy is 6v6, he is convinced it is a magic pill that will “save the game” and nothing else will satisfy him.
@@Falconwing66 because 6v6 was peak overwatch. Nobody asked for 5v5, and they are doing all this nonsense to make the game work.
Tbh Samito will be a doomer over literally any change, His bias is just towards negativity
@@Gekk0eand all the other streamers are biased towards sucking off blizzard so they can go to all the events instead of talking about the problems with the game.
@@Falconwing66Maybe because he’s right
So basically, the answer to tank balance is to homogenize every tank into an Orisa fortify…
Pretty much, gone are the days of unique tanks
I'm surprised that Flats didn't mention Doomfist. His shotgun would be nerfed with this, and his punch wouldn't push tanks into walls as easily. That seems like really important nerfs for Doom, as you could now do something like couterpicking with rein because he has armor. you would just be winning most trades with doom. This is especially important because doom's main damage is his primary. Glad that Flats is pleased with what changes are being made, as he is usually pretty good at making calls about what is happening to overwatch.
the sound of junkrat buffs is nice, he has been in dire need of them since he lost his 1 shot combo
This will age like milk in the Arizona sun.
This is a MASSIVE nerf to Mauga 25% less headshot damage is detrimental for his gun that deals headshot damage to on-fire targets
So not only is it a nerf to his damage but his survivability is tied to his damage so less damage = less healing and less crit damage means less temp health
So he might actually be getting a buff vs this or his force crits wont be affected
Tank feels terrible for everyone now
It's so funny to ne, I was listening to your discussion video on "how to fix tanks" were you were looking at suggestions on your Twitter post, and then this shows up on my feed when I'm leaving. As a Rein one trick I'm very excited for these changes
Mauga got buff as well. Think about it.
With less damage from headshot receive, he survives better. Although his pellet does slightly lesser damage, you also have to consider the fact that his damage bypass the headshot damage reduction because his damage multiplier is base on hitting target on fire and not on headshot, which evening out the damage lost from armor.
TL;DR; His damage evens out, but he get better survivability and more hp regen.
BRING BACK OCTOBER 2020 6V6
I like how the title sounds
I play both tank and dps about the same amount, and my dps mains are rat and hanzo. overwatch has been a living hell lately but today is super exciting
As I understand it, Armor currently only reduces damage up to the quantity of armor you have. If you have 100 hp and 100 armor, that 100 armor can only eat 130 damage, not simply blocking 30% of whatever damage you have incoming. So it's effectively 30% more EHP that's easier to heal.
reaper is dead against tanks with armour cause of the armour changes and he deals 25% less for a headshot on tanks. currently reaper does 216 dmg if all pellets were a to hit headshot (for normal health only), I did a lot of math (hopefully correctly) and with the tank changes he will only do 87 dmg if all pellets were a to hit headshot (for armour health only), idk if it actually possible to have every pellet be a headshot due to spread so this could be lower and with the maths I did if all pellets were a body shot it's 54 dmg with the armour reduction and 162 dmg if all pellets were to be a headshot shot (for normal health). reminder these numbers are exclusive to tanks, pls correct me if I'm wrong and all these numbers are with out fall off btw
We already know how unkillable front line mean comn man..... you can keep 5v5 but 2 tank is necessary.
NOOO! No more tank knockback resistance!
overwatch devs will try EVERYTHING but 6v6
and 5v5 defenders will gaslight people into thinking that balance changes was a 6v6 problem and not balance problems.
they're the type of mf's to change their tiers when their engine breaks down
Sorry but the only good thing to come out of the mismanaged fires of ow2 was cutting it down to 5v5. One of the only right choices theyve made and then they insisted on making it progressively more miserable to play to where ppl dont see the difference bc both 6v6 and current ow2 feel like ass to play
They might as well just say fck it and do 7v7 lol
@@Madameflareclassic delusional 5v5er
@@Madameflare no it was a terrible decision. When they made Overwatch 1 they tested 5v5 6v6 and 7v7. They chose 6v6 for a REASON
Fun fact:
I'm not playing anymore ow since season 2 for many reason, but i still like to follow some gameplay and improvements of the game. What is funny? In a survey i asked for a damage reduction passive in season 2 for tanks, now the fact that they are actually doing that after many years, just blow my mind.
Now i'm curious to see that in action
Just a 1.5 or 2 second speed boost ability for Rein is all I’d want. Don’t care how long they want the CD. Hopefully these changes here are all he needs… but when it’s not. Just let the guy move a bit faster. Make it an a passive on hits or ability uses, anything for him to not be countered by walking backwards or requiring a Lucio. Am I the crazy one to ask for this? Maybe so.
I was going to complain that ball is yet again getting indirectly nerfed, BUT THEY ACTUALLY FINALLY GAVE US DAMAGE BUFFS THANKYOUUUU I CAN PLAY THE GAME AGAIN THANKYOUUUUUU
All this patch does is make Reaper unplayable and I'm not exaggerating. His last remaining value was shoehorned into tank-busting, just for the devs to say "fuck you" and remove that too.
Yeah I just don't care anymore, lost count of how many characters and playstyles they've killed in this "sequel", most recently junkrat becoming a useless piece of trash, the entire off tank role, mercy's passive being powercrept onto literally everyone and her entire existence being replaced by kiriko.... if you're still choosing to play this game after all the dumbassery you should just expect theyre gonna keep slowly ruining the game and killing the characters you love with horrible balance changes. This is barely even a game just a battle pass and microtransaction dress up simulator.
GIVE JUNKRAT HIS COMBO SHOT BACK! This would be HUGE for the few Junkrat mains who are left and have been sticking it out ever since the health pool changes ruining the character completely.
BALL BUFFS WERE BEYOND UNECESSARYYYYYYYYY AAAHHH (Coming from a Widow main who has Ball's focus 9 times outta ten, so yes I do understand I'm very biased lol)
Finally a ball minefield change after the health changes.
Ever since the change 2 mines wouldn't kill someone on full health, and if they were full and being spammed healing my record was someone just walking through 4 mines without dying.
It’s wild they said Reaper when he does not feel good to play. His role is to pump high damage into the frontline and yet he can’t do that. So you play him flank surprise style but supports have multiple second chance abilities. I swear I rarely if ever see a Reaper - even when there’s a Winston.
90% of characters dont feel good to play in ow2 not just reaper. I just wonder if the people crying about reaper felt the same when junkrat lost his two shot flank playstyle, hanzo and mei lost their entire identity, sombras old playstyle, the entire off tank role got deleted and all tanks have been made into the same boring ass gameplay, mercy's passive got powercrept onto literally everyone and she got powercrept out of the game and replaced by kiriko. Like we care now, why? Thats been the game for years at this point, if you're still choosing to play the game you should just accept the fact that theyre gonna keep ruining all the characters
@@ironman1458 True. I was commenting on Reaper because that’s the example they gave. Kiriko is my most hated character in the game and I don’t understand how she hasn’t been touched. The fact that Suzu counters so much on a short cool-down is wild to me. Anti and burning? Fine that makes sense. But cleanse away a pulse bomb? That’s dumb.
I don’t think they can fix their balancing without a complete gutting of what they have.
Now if they also gave us 6 V 6 and I'll be a happy lad.
As much as I want 6v6, these tank changes for sure tell me they're not willing to go 6v6.
@@commandoch12i5 I wouldn't be so sure. IMO 6v6 is clearly on the table, and they are rather exhausting the balancing fiasco that is 5v5 to see if its even plausible to continue with it. I think if this next season flops, 6v6 will be around the corner. Season 9 gave them hope that 5v5 is possible, but with the ultimate ending due to that patch being the lackluster season 10, I wouldn't be surprised if they were still looking at 6v6.
Also, keep in mind queue times were one of the biggest reasons to go to 5v5, and look at this past season's queue times. I'd argue we're in for a ride (more 5v5 patches) with a hopeful destination (return to 6v6).
If they determine 6v6 is more profitable, they will go to it. I think we, not only could, but will see that happening by the end of the year. If not, at least a test game mode by then.
Honestly really really happy about queen being buffed here. The shout cooldown always felt like it was just barely too long to be usable everytime you dueled somone.
Now i can actually stop hiding in cover constantly woo!
I feel a bastion slow cooking in the oven
It’s a gameplay loop issue, tanks can’t be saved by cramming more stats and damage reduction on them.
sadly, this is not enough to fix tank. i'll come back when they go harder
It's not saved, it's the beginning of realizing the whole thing is a mistake and the return of 6v6.
OH SURE NO CAP FOR SURE THIS TIME IT'S FOR REAL REAL WE ARE SAVED. Come on now guys, let's turn our brains on. We are going to go back to square one no matter what we do - it's a format issue, not a balance issue. Tank is going to feel shit no matter what. Let's just get used to it.
As a day 1 hog and rein main im swimming in happiness
Too addicted to helldivers, but good changes so far
Essentially…Ball and Queen are now meta again.
As a tank player, I’m getting tired of the “bring back 6v6” conversation. Tank hasn’t been changed enough in OW2 to warrant a format change yet. This is a good move that will alleviate pain points in playing tank atm, however it will need more tuning later on
Flats making tank more unkilable is gonna make everyone else hate tank stupidly
Genji indirectly got some love here too, he is now much stronger against armor
I’m glad they said role queue. Cuz this would totally make dps irrelevant in open queue
How will armor effect beam heros like sym/zarya?
Now that passive heal is a thing and tanks get better passive heal, i think support passive needs to change. Im not saying its bad, its still very strong, but it doesnt feel unique anymore and it encourages solo-play on behalf of the supports. I think they could come up with a support passive that encouraged team-play, and that would help in part to bring down the power level of the very strong dps-support playstyle without killing it or direct nerfs
I swear if this headshot thing makes the Mauga slam do less damage 😂
If Rein rolls up with full shield he can probably get a lot more passive time than other tanks
Unless you fight a tank buster or movement heavy character like a tracer blinking past your shield. Although against widow Rein is eating
It’s a good day when joyous flats is on the thumbnail
Headshot change should be big for DVa and Winston vs everyone and Ram omnic form vs snipers... his little form was so squishy vs snipers.
Good video also looool the contrast between you and Samito video 😂
Attack pause should be removed when Queen and Hog use melee attack.
Reaper should just be called sleeper now. Rip for this character
Looking forward to playing speed only Lúcio as tanks have their time in the sun
Still just edging our way back to OW1 I see...
We don’t need tank buffs we need a 2nd tank, when will people understand?
I'll tell you what the problem is, most of the Overwatch community knows what role They play dps And dps are toxic They want to be able to kill everything with one shot They don't like the tank role because it can't be killed right away At least in the beginning like this You've seen they are the biggest part of the community they have to be accommodated the others have to suffer with the supporting characters being the middle ground and the tangibly being the last wheel of the wagon
If I'm doing the maths correctly doesn't the armour change make tanks take more headshot damage now from burst heroes despite the 25% reduction?
If Rein, Ball, Queen, and Winston are strong that's cool with me. Skill heroes should be strongest and crutch heroes can be perma relegated to specialists and low ranks.
GRRRRRRRRRR They've nerfed Lifeweaver's Damage vs Armored Enemies... I'm so FRUSTRATED
As a ball player, I can’t wait for 2 weeks of ball being viable :)
Roadhogs passive healing heals faster than mercy’s staff lmfao
As much as i enjoyed some tankmatches in the past, i always thougth tanks in OW were weird. Tanks are just big dps with more health, barely any of them aktuelly does what a tank does in an rpg. Tanks should be the ones taking the aggro / making it so that the other team is forced or incentivised to hit him, but he shouldnt do much dmg and just suupport his team / inconveniene the enemies aka cc them in some form...
we tank players really need reduced CC duration on our role passive, these survival buffs are great but i don't want to be paralyzed in every teamfight just because im big
I got booped by Lucio as a rein and I somehow went farther than my Kiri that also got booped
I think they should go 7v7 2 tanks, 3 dps and 2 support;
You probably just came up with the smartest idea In this entire community You can please the dps The supporters AND the tanks
My ramattra is going to love this change, boy is beefy as hell but headshots are his goddamn kryptonite
Now DPS players will suffer as i have suffered.
*1 month later* “tank still feels awful to play”
We all know what the solution is but everyone refuses to accept it especially those who play DPS
@firstflame593 many DPS players agree with 6v6.
1 month later tank still feels horrible and now support and dps also feel horrible
This time will be different (surely)
You could say that for the game right now and literally any other point in the game’s existence though. In fact you could say that for just about any role-based pvp fps
Oh PLEASE let this not be clickbait
It was
So was ot
not clickbait.
It was not, sincerely a jq main :D
Give it a week or month after the changes yall will still complain lol enjoy the stockholm syndrome
remember. you can recieve the 45hp per second with rein by deploying your shield for long enough.
Yeah except your shield will then get bursted down and if ur shield goes down you’re out of luck
and that will just help contribute to the heals you're hopefully already getting. very good stuff
aint no way the shield stays up for that long
@@Caliber918 use corners
@@anya-qr4qb I know you can survive without your shield but if you’re standing behind a corner then you’re not tanking for your team obviously, best just not to let your shield go down unless absolutely necessary
On behalf of every tank main out there: SUFFER AS I HAVE!!
You say this but remember your team also has to fight a giga buffed raid boss tank now
@@donovan4222not my PROBLEM!!!!!!
WE'RE SO BACK
Reaper needs a new role atp cause all these buffs are making him more and more irrelevant
@@kiba6872 neat pfp
With how big D.va's head hit box is that might as well read "D.va takes 25% less damage"
Well to be fair the trade-off is her gun doing way less damage against armor
@@deoxxysdva is best against smaller, flying heroes anyway so idk if it’ll matter too much idk
but she is good for hitting headshots and finishing other tanks ig
@@drmidge Dva was really good into tanks like winston but this will make the matchup kinda equal.
@@drmidge well, armor isn't there when you're finishing off other tanks, so only the HS nerf will matter at that point for DVa!
9:10 that's so true, this should prevent tank deaths that leave you staring at your screen like "WTF just happened?!?"
So the solution to ow2 is making tanks immortal and their positioning no longer matters? This just devalues all other roles and tank will still not be fun bc theres no skill in never being able to die
@@R4G3_QuitI think it’s less you can’t die and more like you won’t walk into a fight and die in like 3 seconds. You’re complaint is overreacting my guy
@R4G3_Quit Hyperbole much? The Armour change alone simply alters what Heroes will be more & less effective against some Tanks, not to mention all other Armoured Heroes.
Hitting HS's with Tracer and the like will be key to doing any meaningful damage against Armoured foes.
Just means her ilk will need to pick their targets, focus on the Unarmoured ones first.
Leave Burning down Armoured foes to heroes like Widow or Phara, direct hit Rockets will be doing more damage with this change after all.
Think about it, high damage attacks will be doing more damage overall, even with the -25% HS damage and -5 damage from armour, a Widow, Cass or Ashe HS will still be doing more total damage than before.
It just means all Armoured Heroes can shrug off less potent attacks like Tracers Pulse Pistols but need to be wary of Phara Rockets, Widow shots and the like.
-50% KB is nice, but it's only KB. Tanks will still be just as vulnerable to other CC effects as everyone else.
It's not the end of the world mate. Even Tracers Pulse Bomb will do more damage overall, especially if you land the stick on the large tank target.
Some Tanks, like non-armoured ones, will feel more suited to the role with the -25% HS reduction.
Ultimately making those non-armoured tanks more viable in the role as a result. Which will give the role more variety overall.
These are good, well balanced changes that aren't overpowred. Each of them addressed an issue and has great option's for counterplay to off set any advantage vs another specific attack type.
Railgun shots will do more damage to both the head and body of any armoured target too.
Stop being so pessimistic and cosider the wider array of options available for taking down armoured targets with these changes.
Counter swap will be more detaioled than just countering the enemy tank.
That's a great change in of itself alone
This will not change counterswapping at all. more powerful tanks means that counterswapping is even more impactful now
In a character-based game with the ability to swap, you're going to see counter swapping. Period.
You cannot remove something like that from the game unless you remove the ability to change characters mid-match.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696 sure, you can, but it's not as fun as just playing what you want and working with your team to make things work. Yes there will always be people who counterpick every game regardless but most people main a few characters only (because of lore or gameplay reasons) and get really good at them.
A huge portion of the playerbase are drawn to the compelling character and world this game has, otherwise they would just be playing another shooter. So I think focusing on counterpicking and making it more impactful is going to alienate a huge chunk of their playerbase.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696ok but in 6v6 if u had a ball 1 trick and the enemy went sombra and hog, u could go zaria and bubble ur ball. and even if ur ball dies u still have 1 tank to hold front line, and since tanks weren't raid bosses back in ow1 if the enemy tank messed up he would get punished and die so even if u were down a tank u could come back. its called this wonderful thing called gamebalance, u should look into it sometime
I’m not so sure. If tanks are exploding less it’ll be easier to play around counter swaps. I’m mainly thinking about rein and jq. Like my biggest problem on rein has never been orisa it’s the absurd dmg of other heroes poking me down. Less dmg means I can play the game meaning I can have more freedom to work around a counter.
Anything that makes one-tricks cope and seethe makes me a happy lad
TL;DW
Tank will have:
-Knockback reduction up from 30 to 50%
-Headshot DMG reduction 25%
-Armor DMG reduction 5 DMG per projectile up to 50%
For all:
-Passive heal: from 20 HP/s to (10+5% of max HP)/ s
Also:
-Small buff for junk, echo, hanzo
-JQ buff commanding shout, can now activate with Carnage or Rampage
-Ball buff impact from swing 50->60, piledriver movement lockout 0.5->0.75s, minefield DMG up from 130 to 165 and knockback from 5 to 10 meters
All will be here on May 14
See ya and let's make a great game!
Much appreciated
And the worst heroes Mercy and Reaper get nothing 🤦♀️😡
@@itzpurple_queen9711 reaper worst hero? where you getting that from lad?
@@TheRealGeorgeCostanzaNot sure about worst but he’s easily bottom 5 so it’s not really that hot of a take
@@KyleKylesonOfTheKyleClan There is a top500 reaper solo right now
Yes! lets make an arbatrary change instead of tackling the fundamental problems with the role!
the problem with the role is that its missing a player. thats like if 5v5 was 2 tanks, 2 dps, and 1 support. the support role would feel like dookie to play
@@iSuckAtGamesGG yes and no, the fundamental problems would be their kits, 80% of the tanks original kits were designed around 2 tanks and how they’ve adapted those kits to a single tank is the problem
@@Burkius the reason tank feels bad to play is because they can counter u, and because all the cd's go into u. back in ow1 if u had a ball 1 trick u could go zaria and prevent all his counters if u both played smart. and even if one of ur tanks is feeding u still had a tank to hold the front line that 2 support could... well support. now if ur tank is feeding its a gg go next. that and also 2 tanks were able to hold angles better than one so one shots were way less of a problem which is why in 5v5 they had to get rid of all the one shots (besides widow's op one shot)
@@Burkius actually only 50% (6/12) of the tanks were made with 2 tanks in mind, as JQ, Mauga and Ram are new in OW2 and Doom, Orisa and Roadhog got reworks in/during OW2. Also every tank has gotten balance changes over time to make them better fit the 5v5 gameplay
@@HietakissaThe reworks and the nummercal changes help, but don't address the fundamental limits of the characters. Older tanks just do less and offer less to the team.
The armor changes:
But what is the most annoying thing to tanks? Minigun and shotgun heroes, so bastion, mauga, reaper and so on. They specifically nerfed those heroes with those changes
Right. The characters whose primary role was uhh... (checks notes) tank busting. The tank busters got nerfed against tanks. So they have less of an impact doing the thing that sets them apart from other characters...
Lol yeah this game has no idea what it wants to be anymore. At this point they're just making changes to pander to streamers/youtubers in the desperate hopes that the free advertisement keeps them afloat.
@@aeonamadiperhaps they get buffed later after they assess the impact of these changes? A couple damage heroes being useless for awhile is a price I’m willing to pay for tank to not be miserable.
@@aeonamadi You can be a tank buster without deleting the tank. It's gotten to a point where a lot of tank players have to stop playing in the fight because the moment they do they cease to exist the moment their defensive abilities go away. It's good to change the game enough to keep how it feels fresh, nobody wants the same meta for seasons upon seasons. Maybe you enjoyed seeing Orisa/Mauga every game, but not everyone did.
The game isn't even suffering that badly, and more than content creators were feeling the miserable life of being a tank player.
@@aeonamadino there making changes because tank has sucked and felt bad to play since season 2 I wouldn’t doubt if the entire tank player base has decreased
@@aeonamadi Reaper's main thing was never tank busting unless you're talking about early OW1, bastion is a cheesy character and can delete any squishy, a tank should be allowed to give their team a chance to fight back rather than player "peekaboo" simulator vs the bastion in turret form, Mauga's overhealth should be the same I think but the damage should be much lower until the armour is gone which isnt an issue vs most enemies except for orisa and Dva, to compensate allow mauga to ignite shields since tanks with shields tend to have armour or a secondary self sustain.
Lastly i gotta agree with the fact that tracer is specifically known for 1v1ing tanks and is 100% used as a tank buster fr fr.
Also im happy sombra can go die in a pit since her smg will be much weaker vs tanks despite the virus still doing good dmg.
I simply cannot wait for Flats to heel turn on these changes 1 week from them beeing live
might be 2 weeks he needs to get paid by blizzard first
No chance. These are good changes.
@@shanecar84😂😂😂😂 bro people cried season one about how strong tanks were I vividly remember this so I don’t see how this is good
Flats and others legit get excited over receiving sprinkles for their birthday. This patch is just sprinkles, it changes nothing about what makes Tank feel awful.
@@okami7847 this, idk how anyone could see these patch notes and think it was a good thing.
All I heard was in order to make tanks not feel like shit we will now make every other role equally as shit 🤣
????? Explain? U talking about the regen changes?
@@quiteslayer4067 they said in their notes that they kept hearing that tanks explode to quickly or last too long, so their response is to reduce damage taken and increase regen? Those aren’t the issue it’s all the cc and support abilities that are the issues, in masters and above tanks are just going to live longer and dps is going to rely more on hitscan then ever before l.
@@ismaelvillalobos4949 well yea, ofc that’s what’s gonna happen, anytime u strengthen one role another isn’t going to be as effective. That’s how balancing works. Just cause tank is the one being buffed doesn’t change that fact of buffing a role. Besides, a tank is supposed to hard to kill, that’s like the whole thing.
@@quiteslayer4067 that’s the thing though only a handful of tanks are gonna benefit from this that’s if they benefit from it at all, abilities as awhile across the board are to strong
@@ismaelvillalobos4949 more then a handful will benefit. Some more then others sure, but almost all benefit in some way.
I'm sorry but I have to see this practice in action. This "we're so back" is getting more depressing as they continue to change things. Hopefully they can get on the right path.
We don’t need tank buffs we need a 2nd tank
@@donovan4222 truth
devs will rework literally the entire game 10 times rather than going back to the superior 6v6
@Real_MisterSir dude, it's a different game, 6v6 is ow1.
@Marshall-Bit it's the same game with updates OW2 was a cashgrab format change fake sequel
"We're so back"
*Two weeks later*
"It's so over"
Halfway there
Literally every patch lol
@@SkippytWalrusnah tank is actually broken now
The duality of this video and samito is hilarious
And I don’t even know where I place myself 😮
because all Samito does is bitch and complain 24/7. I like the guy but damn every single video of his nowadays is him just shitting and crying over 5v5. I like 6v6 better too but damn bro we get it, you want it back.
6v6 is definitely better no doubt
I wish we could just test it out.
The amount of theoretical opinions is getting ridiculous.
We need a feel for this. 🐝
@@tombra3059I played ow1 and although tank wasn’t my fav role at the time (ex dps doom main), 6v6 felt infinitely better. the role generally has less 1 tricks so that isn’t an issue as much as the other 2 roles. and ppl complaining about tank synergies “being too strong”were just shit at the game . tank synergies made the game feel so rewarding if anything. also the ppl who complained about double shield, it was not the two shields that made it unbearable, it was bap brig and sig orisa sustain abilities that were the problem, not the shields. dev team just has no idea how to balance the right things (as we are seeing with 5v5)
Tank role is saved to make all the other roles unplayable.
We're just going to keep hitting a cycle on which role feels the most unplayable
5v5 be like. Tanks need to be oppressive to feel good to play.
Tanks will not be fun to play, yeah other roles will suck more but consider this.
Tanks are more powerful so:
-counter the tank is even more important
-tank have more responsibility and is not allowed to fail
-every role has a lower skill ceiling (hitting hs brings less value)
-tanks have a lower skill floor
-cd on tanks are still a problem
@@KiraMahManthat is a massive cope, making role braindead op doesn't make it fun, orisa was immortal, who liked her? Cringe deranged cheesers.
This makes it even worse, now every tank can just press shift to go in, press another ability to be immortal, kill everything apart from tank and repeat, nobody except losers will like that.
No strategy, why catch someone out of position or make space for DPS to do actual skillcheck, just hold W and win by holding left click with your eyes closed.
@@LoGo-94 I mean if rein or winston ever were to be oppressive I'd love it.
@@LoGo-94you're making this sound easier than it is.
holy shit I can actually look at a widow now and not instantly go to the respawn screen!
I would advise still not looking at window
I did feel like widow shouldn't have been THAT GOOD vs tanks
A widow who can hit headshots consistently can just eat through a tanks health
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 Id dive in as doom and most of my HP would just evaporate cause they had a widow and then id just die
@@sebastianrodriguez8992 lawd forgive a tank gets punished for just standing in the open
@@Burkius someone entire field of vision shouldn't be considered out in the open when her just being able to see me means 300 health just gets deleted
A good widow just sits wherever TF she wants and can cram headshots like there's no tomorrow and lord forbid she gets a pocket so even more of my health disappears
Hammond being meta NOT because of every other tank sucking ass is the best early Christmas present of all time
Just you wait till he gets nerfed next patch because us ball players who are used to playing a bad tank gets more wins.
@@Zoosmell413 The grapple buff makes sense, the piledriver buff doesn't, and the ultimate buff is completely unnecessary.
I would really like to see Hog have his ultimate tweaked. It was already bad at 30%, but with 50% knockback resistance roadhog effectively gets a delete the tank button.
They did take that into account with the armor change
It’s really bad because it honestly takes 0 skill and thought to hook a tank and press Q in their general direction, but this is a hugely impactful play. It gives hog players massive dopamine hits for plays they didn’t earn and that’s ALWAYS been hogs problem. Now it’s even worse. Terrible
So the armor change is both good and bad. Against low damage per hot characters you will get more value out of it, but against higher damage per hit characters you will be taking more damage per hit. Widow will be doing more damage per headshot against tanks now, even with the headshot reduction due to the armor change. (Only 10 more damage but still) and if a character does 85 damage (arbitrary number) then not counting a headshot, but they will do more damage against armor targets than before. Against the damage that bastion does, the new damage difference is you take 1.4 less per shot or around 1.2 for tracer.
Wrecking ball mines are going to be insane now. Extra movement lockout on the knockup means it will be harder to escape from the mine + piledriver combo, AND THEY BUFFED MINE DAMAGE??? ball will be insane.
i lo e ball
Also with good ball players who can double boop that extra boop damage is insane
@@flynnton1 i lo e him somuch
It’s a huge buff but doom slam can still one shot the entire minefield so use it carefully ballers
@@donovan4222didnt they increase mines health to fix that
- Nerfs Orisa's Fortify
- Gives Fortify to every tank
Balanced
thats unironically what they did
And?
@@inherentlyflawedand it is insanity.
They clearly don't play their game.
I can't count how many times I literally hold left click on tanks head with probably like 30+ crit acc and that shit still doesn't die.. wtf do you even do now?
You'd say, don't shoot tank, but there are far too many situations when you have to shoot tank.
@@LoGo-94 it's a tank. they're supposed to be, well, tanky. That's the whole point.
@@inherentlyflawed What I meant is it's quite silly for Orisa since her point is to be unkillable. They had an opportunity for a good powershift but nah ..
They just keep doing a full circle ⭕️
a one legged duck swimming
I still wish they would just have the knockback passive apply to all cc
I don’t think these changes will fix the issue of the core gameplay loop simply not being fun due to the added pressure of being the solo tank, countering will still be powerful. These changes will help in terms of balance and a sense of impact, but I seriously doubt it helps with making the game fun. I hope I’m wrong
Note on hog. Less knockback during ult, but also much less damage. His ult is pellets, not the larger projectiles. Sooo. At most, itll even out i think
His main gun is pellets to do hog over all is getting a damage nerf
its only vs armor that that matters but im betting it'll still come out to be a buff because the target flying away less means A L O T more dmg AND it'lll make going for a hook mid ult easier which is a death sentence to basically every tank in the game
It's a buff, you want to know why? You ever seen a fortified Orisa get altered by hog? 😂 She gets creamed.
@@daXstoRM5 i got fucking deleted as mauga when Hooked+whole hoged, i was so damn fucking confused
@@angelstouge2195 yea uh as a hog main that hit high masters b4 his rework and still now, there is very little you can do to survive as a tank when i pop ult. hope your ana sleeps me, maybe attempt to survive as diva with matrix and flying away. but with the horse now dead im betting hogs finna eat the rest of the season
make tank fun => more tank players => bring back 6v6 with new tank players to fix queue times
blizzards master plan
To be honest this isn't really fundamentally solving my issues with tanks were kinda just turning them all into big stat sticks with the headshot resistance.
This isn't solving counterswapping
It's arguably making the "big stat characters" worse
This isn't solving tanks feeling like a resource conservation simulator.
Tanks don't need to be more powerful they need to be more dynamic to play.
Yeah this was my first thought too. But what's worse is that while tanks will probably feel the same 'cause the core issues weren't solved, these changes also make life MORE annoying for the other roles.
Yes and no - It makes the non-number tanks more viable (Rein, Queen, Ball, etc.) without destroying the numbers tanks. It helps counter some counter swapping from OTHER roles like how Reaper and Bastion are every tank's nightmares, while also helping some One Tank Beats All like through Mauga (since armor halves his damage now). Mauga is a big stat guy who now has counterplay in the form of armored heroes, Orisa also does worse against armor now (but is still easily dealt damage through high damage shots). The only stats Tank you can say isn't made worse is Hog, except he's STILL a shotgun hero meaning significantly less damage against armored targets. They literally took out the stat heroes from being the only viable options which was MORE needed than solving counter swapping.
A tank should have the effectiveness of two players. There's one tank, two dps, and two supports. The ENTIRE role is on one person, meaning they have double the expectations and should have double the effectiveness (whether to win or lose) as any other individual player. Currently, tanks are just toddlers walking around trying not to fall over by tripping on a leaf.
We have dynamic tanks, they just can't play in the meta because of the gatekeeper stat tanks (which all get nerfed from this) and the speed at which they die either due to damage numbers or other factors. Rein, Queen, Winton, those are all dynamic but can be extremely hard to play, most specifically Rein and Queen. Tanks should TANK, not explode. They SHOULD have damage resistance and should NOT lose every 1v1 simply because they're against a shotgun hero or because someone pressed shift
We don’t need tank buffs we need a 2nd tank so that tanks can actually be fairly designed
there is no stop to counterswapping. unless they go back to two tanks it will still be rock paper scissors except for the doom otps lmao
It doesn't solve specific issues, but it does help. Btw, tanks do need to be more powerful. The last time tanks were meta was season 2. What's the point of taking every bullet and CC in my face if I can't carry the game? If that's the case, just go back to 6v6
6v6?
Yah, I may be a hardcore Tank main but….this is more terrifying than hopeful
Really don’t want to be the reverse of what we are now.
We used to have only 1 real boop in the game, now the whole enemy team can boop you.
Yeah JR mines the OG. 😂
does 25% less headshot damage mean the headshot multiplier is reduced by 25% or that it's actually 25% less? because that's a pretty big difference
100 damage + (100 headshot damage - 25%) = 175 damage
or
(100 damage + 100 headshot damage) - 25% = 150 damage
Surely the way they worded it, it means a flat 25% damage reduction.
Thank you lord flats for supporting us ball players in our time in the sun
Chazm and Yeatle boutta go crazy
Honestly idk if this fixes ball. You might still feel like you're not doing a whole lot without good coordination.
@@bazzfromthebackground3696or that your team blows up as soon as you dive their healers
Honestly I had some matches where i was absolutely sweating with ball doing my absolute best and then there was this reinhardt with more kills and 5k more dmg than me sitting back with his teams swinging his hammer every now and then. Everytime id dive my team would get obliterated into oblivion
Don't get your hopes up. I bet you money counter swapping will still be a problem.