SC2Owl Nah, she's probably bold or something - agterll they need some way if telling the whole Empire that she is far to good of a person to be held I high regard... I'm kind of curious how ended up as Captain as she is such a good person and probs would not want to kill her way up the chain of command... Maybe she very relecutnsrly killed her previous captain to prevent a genocide that in the Prime Universe she herself caused..
+Hybrid Jack I'm 110% confident that is is a reference to SfDebris. And yes, SfDebris mirror-Janeway has a goaty and is surprisingly reasonable. She even baked cookies! And have you even seen her calligraphy?
Did the Terran empire fight their own version of the Dominion? Or do they have the advantage of never having to participate in a huge war? Makes me wonder what the mirror universe Dominion would be like (allies to the Federation?).
The Alpha quadrant would be screwed, unless the Terran empire is still rebuilding from their victory. They might be able to get help from the Borg, similar to the victorious Dominion story.
I honestly think if the empire was going to invade the Prime universe they would modify there transporters and warp drive to cross over so the empire could directly board ships and stations. Plus be able to warp right into the Prime universe. The reason for this logic. Is the dialogue with in deep space nine where they reference transporters had been modified to prevent cross overs with the Prime universe. So this points to an understanding of crossing over between both universes. So they would be able to expand the technology to perform mass cross over assaults.
Alternate scenario, I know but doesn't the new militarized starfleet ignore stuff like that now? Bashire wanted the Federation to surrender to save lives ( I really disliked him) Sisko helped put war doctrine made back in the 21st century back into starfleet to deal with new threats.
I think there's wiggly room in DS9's mirror universe to suggest maybe the Terrain Empire survived but is bottled up in their own territory. If there's a post Voyager show they need to make it canon.
Why would the Terrans destroy the surrendered Starfleet ships? Analysing their technology would be useful but even simply taking control of the Starfleet ships and adding them to the Terran fleet would be worthwhile.
Read "Mirror Broken" It takes place in the mirror universe, at the same timeframe as DS9, but it turns out that the remnants of the Terran empire still control Earth.
Basically, "Mirror Broken" says the the destruction of the Terran Empire is propaganda by the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance. However, the Terran Empire has been greatly diminished and in incapable of launching an offensive against the Alliance. They are primarily focused on preserving what territory they have.
At this point section 31 would engage protocal "last stand" with threat of total destruction at hand they were to show all their cards. Cloaked ships with phase technology and future blade of armor that have been building in ship yards since the pagasus returned and "dismantled" armed with tens of thousands of elite trained holograms with mobile emitters would with ease decloak just long enough to energize beam threw there shields and kill and disarm the ships. With little to no proof of there involvement a select crew of Starfleet ships would cleanup and create a cover story. We keep good Janeway in exchange.
But it was destroyed in the middle of the war during the battle to retake DS9! Alvo they may have still deactivated it after given how aragon star fleet was to external threats and to help promote peace and trade.
Way back, I wrote a small piece of lore fiction on if the Terran Empire had survived in the prime universe as the remnants escaped into the Prime universe and remained hidden since the TOS era where the fall happened. They spend years hidden within the Federation, infiltrating every level of system because it's "soft" compared to the empire and this would be one of the reasons why the Federation became so militaristic over the years, how aggressive Section 31 has become. A much more slower soft power way of taking over the universe than brute force. They'd use the logic of "weaknesses" of the Prime universe to convince them to be more like them, that their way of thinking will not work against the aggressive enemies of their universe, Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Borg, the Dominion, etc How my story continued is the Imperial Remnants begin a coup with infiltrators showing up everywhere across the Federation and we see ships turn on each other
Here's an important question: did the Terran Empire ever have to fight the Borg? Did a mirror Janeway come back in time to give her past self Transphasic Torpedoes and Deployable armor? Because unless we assume that Starfleet did not keep Transphasic Torpedoes in their arsenal after the events of 2381, they would have a huge advantage. If the Bajoran defense fleet were armed with them, and used them (before they were perhaps overwhelmed by superior numbers), that would result in heavy losses for the Empire. OTOH, the Dominion War and Borg Invasion would have probably cost Starfleet tens of thousands of ships in total, and it is safe to assume that they would have still been rebuilding their fleet to not only replace their losses, but to replace the older ships forced back into service. On another subject, I think that if possible, that shortly before surrendering, all of the ship's onboard tactical computers would be programmed to automatically fire their transphasic torpedoes if their sensors detected the loss of life signs of their crews, or the bombardment of Bajor. I suppose that this would only make matters worse when the unmanned ships started firing in retaliation for the deaths of their non-human crew members... After the Terran Empire's refusal to observe the proper treatment of POWs, I think that the Federation would not only declare war, but also institute a policy that discourages surrender, though that would depend on how the Terrans treated the Bajorans.
Hey Lore Reloaded, have you had a chance to read IDWs new Star Trek comic mirror broken? It had a similar concept as your taking with your video. In that they manage to incorporate some of the ideas that DS9 had for the Terrans, but does it without totally destroying the Mirror Universe like DS9 did. Loved DS9 but destroying the Terran Empire was a huge mistake. Great video keep it up.
Wasn't mirror Sisko killed in between mirror universe episodes in DS9? It was the reason Smiley kidnapped prime universe Sisko in "Through the Looking Glass".
I’d probably send people to their universe “somehow” and unite what’s left of their aliens against them to force a battle on two fronts. Entice them with promises of having their universe being like ours and even having proof of alien cooperation through the federation.
I don't think the Terran Empire would needlessly destroy the surrendered Federation ships. They would take them back to study them and gain futher advantages. These ships would also be a great Prize to show they are WINNING... I disagree with the taking of Cardassian terrority, this would slow down the Empire forces. They would first strike fast & hard at Federation shipyards and supply depots. Some of the Empire ships would bomb Federation worlds to create panic and tie down Federation forces in rescue operations.
Why destroy the surrendered ships? Send teams over after the surrender, wipe the memory cores, load your routines, crew the captured ships. The tech is similar and likely pretty easy interface with the mirror tech when given a blank slate
Would they bother with Cardassia or any other powers at this point? Attacking on multiple fronts would bring multiple groups into the fight, uniting both Alpha and Beta powers into a force to fight against the Terran Empire. Attacking only the Federation would at least give the appearance that they would only be interested in Federation worlds. For now at least.
As long as Janeway doesn't come to the rescue with renegade Borg or something like that :) No I can see this scenario play out as you described depending on how many ships the Terran Empire commits. But I have to question the effectiveness of Starfleet ships. Yes they would still be outgunned easily but take into consideration Prime Starfleet's progress made in light of the Borg and Dominion in terms of combat capable ships and the tactics. AFAIK, Mirror Starfleet never encountered either (that would make an interesting Lore analysis) so their tech is based more on what they intergrate vs innovate. I think Prime Starfleet would have done a better job at holding off the TE inflicting some decent damage.
The Romulans would probably panic seeing what a militaristic Star Fleet and develop some tech tech retrovirus that transforms people into space hippies. Hey... maybe this is how prime universe Star Fleet was pacifist despite... everything?
Never really liked the idea that you can trigger going to the mirror-universe and vice versa, especially given how easy it appear to be (O'Brien holding some device over a random console and suddenly the transporter can bridge realities). It made for some really interesting stories in DS9 which I all very much enjoyed, but I still find the idea rather weird. First of all, where are all the other universes and why does no-one go there? Second, why isn't there much more crossing between the universes if it is that easy? One would expect mirror-universe people pop up everywhere. It's an interesting concept for a TV series, creating many good plot opportunities (especially from a character perspective), but thought forward into a what-if-scenario it just feels more and more unreasonable. However, if there must be such a scenario, your analysis is of course spot-on. Although I'm not even sure whether Starfleet even would have a whole fleet stationed at DS9, given that the dominian war is over.
I think I'd sneak a cloaked ship into contested space near the wormhole and detonate a large quantity of Omega Molecules, rendering warp useless for, lets say to the borders of Cardassian space. Yea, there would be casualties, and the cloaked ship would effectively be a Hero's final mission, but this buys unimaginable amounts of time for the other races of the Prime universe to rally and set up defenses.
In the mirror universe Janeway is a humble Captain who values the lives of her crew, respects the rights of other cultures, and understands the consequences of her actions.
Q is another level of evolution above Prophets and Paw-Wraiths. Omnipotent vs. Extra-Temporal/dimensional. They probably can interact and can hurt each other, but neither wants to touch each other. I think like the Organians and Dowd, higher species try not to interact with one another. Also remember Sisko as far as we know is the only person in Star Trek to have Hurt Q without using Q weapons. He's partly Prophet, so to me this proves the Prophets extra-dimensional and temporaral nature is effective in harming Q members. Q never showed up again on DS9, probably warned off by Prophets not to interfere with their affairs or their "emissary".
Wen L. I just thought it was because he turned his interest towards Kathryn Janeway. Jean-Luc Picard was "no fun", because it was too hard to get a rise out of him. Benjamin Sisko was "no func, because he had " no sense of humor". At least that's what Q claims to believe. I guess it depends on whether you ask Q, Q, or Q.😆
Q still bugs people even if they're "no fun". Sisko was just threatening to him and even Q knows when to cut back on the jokes. Think about it, an alien species who have evolved into an extra-dimensional and temporal species just below omnipotent of Q, Dowd, and Organians. They might not have as much power as Q, but controlling space and time is too potent of a combination to mess around in their affairs. The Q's worry about the Borg as well, who don't possess nearly as much power as the Prophets, but why run that risk
The Dominion may join the fight against the Terran Empire. After all Odo will be in the Great Link at this point and he will push for helping the Federation and the other Alpha Quadrant powers. Besides it is in the Dominion interests to maintain the status quo in the Alpha Quadrant: the Terran Empire is a danger to everyone afterall. The enslaved alien races of the mirror universe could also take advantage of the war and raise in a massive rebellion, forcing the Empire to split forces and hoping in the Federation Alliance help. What do you think?
“This is Captain Benjamin Sisko of the ISS Defiant lower your shields and surrender and I’ll give you a quick death” “Never the Federation won’t allow you to invade our territory let alone our universe” “You under estimate the power of the Terran Empire, all ships take out our pethetic counter parts” “With pleasure”
The Dominion, (glory to the Founders) would see the Terran empire invasion as a threat to be controlled. They would put aside Odo's influences and invade to thwart the Terran advance. Now would they all with the UFP-Klingon-Romulan alliance or subjugate everyone?
For the record LR I'm a progressive but despite everything I love your content and believe you're a great creator and story teller. I really support your project with Jessie gender and lore runner sounds amazing and idc about the woke aspect of you having a trans individual. Its sounds great no matter who you were doing it with
Over time the industrial and governmental advantages of the Federation would grind out a victory unless the Terran Empire really gets lucky and overruns too much of the UFP within a few weeks.
'evil janeway' -gets flashbacks to that one episode where an alien species is talking about the 'warship voyager', and reconstructing events from badly reconstructed data~ ... We never saw actual mirror universe version of the TNG or Voyager crew did we. (I have a book which includes both, but otherwise not.) We've seen most of the DS9 cast, and I guess technically Worf and O'Brien are TNG cast... Enterprise had it's version (Long live Empress Hoshi), and Discovery, for all it's faults respected the continuity of Enterprise, believe it or not. But we've never seen Voyager cast at all, nor most of the TNG cast. Given the implications of DS9's mirror universe episode they'd probably be slaves, but whatever. XD We have however seen a (fictional), evil Janeway. And those gloves... Such a subtle thing, but it just works. XD So much more subtle than the Mirror universe uniforms and those knives they all carried...
I like the premises of this. Though I doubt the bajorns would fold so easily. I like that Picard and evil Picard. Also the Janeway is a good touch. My question is the good sisko alive?
Id like to know what the mirror universe borg are like. The same? Completely different? Would a mirror drone just be part of normal universe hive mind? Or would it try to assimilate the normal universe borg? Lmao just food for thought
First off Janeway damed if she does damed if she doesn't no matter what she is just damed. 2nd if the source information is accurate then there are three mirror universe's halken, spector, & dark. Dark matches your story perfectly. United imperial federation anyone??
I am not trying to be critical, but problem is that you assume Post Dominion War Star Fleet would surrender Bajor or Bajorans would agree to surrender their homeworld to Terran Empire. We're talking about Federation that has lost millions in a war and is willing to commit genocide to win a long war. We're also talking about a Bajor that has endured century of Cardassian occupation and would rather see their world burn than surrender to an outside power. I think a more realistic scenario is this, the Federation fleet cannot hold the line and Bajor is getting pummeled. With their prophets gone aka Orbs stop working too, they know this is the end, so instead of just surrendering like a TNG federation to a violent opponent, they send out Kamikaze Bajoran fighter ships against the Terran empire and Bajoran Personnel rig DS9 to explode. The Bajorans would force the Terran Empire into either destroying their worlds or committing to long drawn out occupation-like war on their planets, in either case it would be a war of attrition and scorched earth policy. The Bajorans are not pacifists, even as members of the federation, they're comparable to Jews after the Holocaust, they take the concept of "Never Again" far more seriously than I think your scenario give them credit for. If they were willing to take on the Romulan Star Empire alone in DS9, why would you think they'd be any less willing to take on Terran Empire alone.
Using the ricdiulous STD emblems for the Terran Empire? However. How does the second Fleet sneak past DS9? The station is placed directly in front of the wormhole, just a couple of kilometers away from the entrace point. So naturally any fleet coming out of the wormhole would encounter the station and it's defense fleet. And Bajor isn't exactly near the station. I am not sure, DS9 is sometime incredibly inconsistent in that case, but Bajor is at least several hours at full impulse away from the station. Bajor on the other hand is not that defenseless as you might assume. As an essential part of the Dominion war (DS9 formally belongs to the Bajoran Republic), and the first planet to be invaded when the Dominion would ultimately decide to take the wormhole and DS9 in order to establish a supply line to the Gama Quadrant, it is valid to assume that the federation had to assure that Bajor was not defensless. As the fleets are needed elsewhere, I guess the federation installed several orbital defense mechanismns and also granted some tactical upgrades to the Bajoran Militia ships. When the wormhole now starts to behave strange, you can be sure that the first thing the Federation does is to increase the alarm status, not only for Starfleet but also for the Bajorans. Therefor we can also assume that a certain number, maybe all, Bajoran ships are lined up for defense. I am also quite certain, that at least the Romulans are triggered if they hear the wormhole is behaving strange, assuming that the Dominion tries to come back. They would withdraw forces from the Cardassian space, maybe even the Klingons would send some ships. let#s assume that. When the first Terran fleet arrives Starfleet would encounter them alone, given the fact that it takes time for the reinforcements to arrive. The station has been evacuated, so there is only Starfleet and Militia personnel aboard the station. DS9 is placed in front of the Fleet and immediately opens fire with everything it got. After the first volley several Starfleet ships break formation, attacking the Empire ships with the aim to inflicting as much damage as possible and then fall back. While the capital ships stay behind giving long range support and ensuring that no ship can escape, the station begins the second volley inflicting less damage than with the first volley, but nonetheless enough to destroy several Terran ships. The Terrans have no choice but to take out the station in a frontal attack, using their capital ships. In the meantime, Bajor is fully armed and operational, all ships and stations are manned. Starfleet is now involved into full scale combat with the Terran ships surrounding the station, but holds the line. The Terrans decide to call in their second fleet, which is ultimately turning the tide. Starfleet withdraw fromt he station, setting a new rendevouz point on Bajor, followed by the second Terran fleet and what is left of the first fleet (we also have to assume that some ships were left at the station to secure this strategical asset). On Bajor Starfleet regroups and forms a new combat line. Unlike the battle at DS9 the Federation now has no choice but to fight the Terrans with all they got. This results in heavy losses, but witht eh support of the orbital defenses and the Bajoran milita they can hold the line. A brutal fight, as the Bajorans are fierce warriors defending their planet to prevent another brutal occupation. As the majority of the Bajoran Militia was involved in the Bajoran resistance, they use hit and run tactics, seek out Terran ships, attack them and retreat. I think at a certain point the Bajorans would do suicide runs, to destroy as many ships as possible. Their ships are not as resilliant as the Starfleet ships, but due to their experience during the occupation the Bajorans know how to use that disadvantage. As Cardassia is not far away from Bajor the fastes Ronulan and Klingon ships arrive in the Bajoran sector. They engage the Terran ships, using the element of suprise and destroy a large number of Terran vessels. The Terrans now have two choices. Stand in orbit of Bajor, fighting on two fronts, or withdraw to DS9 securing the only connection to their universe. But without DS9 the Terrans will ultimately lose. So they have no choice as to defend DS9.
Fly past a station directly in front of the wormhole and at least one Federation fleet? Does that seem very likely? you consider it canon. Okay. On the other hand the Terran emblem from TOS is also canon. And that is ten years later. They can't be both right. And can STD truly be considered canon? It breaks the canon on every possible occasion. So I tend say STD has its own canon and should be ignored for Trek lore.
Ok, leaving aside the emblem. It still doesn't make sende that a whole fleet comes out of the wormhole and passes a battlezone without being noticed or attacked.
It's different of they wanted to invade the prime verse or destroy it. If they want to destroy, they could easily go ahead and exterminatus'd the galaxy, but if they want to capture though...
Slight advantages(mirror) in tech would be outweighed by the cohesive and smoother tech by the Fed. Then the whole numbers thing.. hundreds of allied species in the Prime Fed, KDF forces and whoever else joins in.. Terrans would be a minor threat. Only in the first week would the Terrans have any numeric advantage. Instantly after the first attack The KDF would ravage them the feds taking their time form a large fleet and wipe them out.. divided foreign forces Vs massive alliances.. The post dominion alpha quadrant would use the small Terran forces as target practice. Then likely resume their petty conflicts.
In the mirror universe, are Section 31 the opposite of their Prime Universe counterparts? Are they a bunch of pacifists who try to undermine the Empire?
I would say the mirror universe isn't technically everything opposite, just a darker universe. I think a DS9 episode pointed it out. So I think Section 31 in the mirror universe would be an official intelligence group
what im thinking is how could it even be counterparts in this mirror universe considering how they use murder to advance in rank how could it even sustain itself how would it even be a captain Janeway or any of her crew or for that matter any of the other beloved crew from the 6 series period wouldn't they most likely not even exist cause their four fathers were murdered isn't this the most likely outcome
wouldn't the terran empire want to use any captured star fleet ships instead of destroying them. since you took their crews off just beam over new crews, change a few codes and you have replacements and all the data the computers would have would be priceless intel to get their hands on. it is different universe after all
I have mixed feeling about that one.. it is an old ship by that point. While it would have advanced the Terran Empire's tech or fighting capabilities during that time... would it still advance after the initial jump or would they plateau? I could see it both ways... a Terran Empire roughly 100 years more advanced in tech or only a decade or so.
Brian Griffin I probably say a few decades at most. They would have had to reverse engineer the tech and then build up their infrastructure to produce it.
"Then the good, mirror universe Janeway" - Loved that 😂😂😂
I aim to please
But: Does she have a goaty?
SC2Owl Nah, she's probably bold or something - agterll they need some way if telling the whole Empire that she is far to good of a person to be held I high regard... I'm kind of curious how ended up as Captain as she is such a good person and probs would not want to kill her way up the chain of command... Maybe she very relecutnsrly killed her previous captain to prevent a genocide that in the Prime Universe she herself caused..
+Hybrid Jack
I'm 110% confident that is is a reference to SfDebris. And yes, SfDebris mirror-Janeway has a goaty and is surprisingly reasonable. She even baked cookies! And have you even seen her calligraphy?
You'd be wrong +tuning3434 - Though I am a huge fan of Sfdebris.. What episode is that? I want to see it
"You'd have Picard, evil Picard, evil Janeway, the good mirror Janeway..." -LoreReloaded 2018
I aim to please
Lore Reloaded and you always do it! Forgot to say, great Video and is this gonna be a series like the post-dominion war one?
Hahahahahaha
Did the Terran empire fight their own version of the Dominion? Or do they have the advantage of never having to participate in a huge war? Makes me wonder what the mirror universe Dominion would be like (allies to the Federation?).
The Terran Empire destroyed the Dominion.
The Mighty Empire destroyed the invaders, killed their gods and conquered the Gamma Quadrant! Long Live the Empire!
The Alpha quadrant would be screwed, unless the Terran empire is still rebuilding from their victory. They might be able to get help from the Borg, similar to the victorious Dominion story.
they didnt even encounter the dominion because the wormhole is unknown in the mirror universe
Terran Empire basically ruled the whole of their Galaxy. The only ones left might be the Borg and maybe the Voth.
Love the "mirror universe good janeway."
I look forward to Mirror Dukat saving the prime universe.
John August knowing the Mirror Universe he was killed decades ago.
aragos32727 You never know, and I can always hope.
Just call in Garrack
aragos32727 remember that Cardassian the actor played on next generation ? yea him.
you mean gul macet
thats dukats brother
Remember mirror Sisko died in the rebellion. And smiley had to get alpha sisko to keep the rebellion going
"Evil Janeway, and good Janeway"
I honestly think if the empire was going to invade the Prime universe they would modify there transporters and warp drive to cross over so the empire could directly board ships and stations. Plus be able to warp right into the Prime universe.
The reason for this logic. Is the dialogue with in deep space nine where they reference transporters had been modified to prevent cross overs with the Prime universe.
So this points to an understanding of crossing over between both universes. So they would be able to expand the technology to perform mass cross over assaults.
Just because you can prevent a thing doesn't mean you can cause it. Umbrella meets rain.
Evil janeway, and less evil janeway
Yeah, but which one is the Terran Empire version? lol
The less evil one.
Labeld Go watch SFDebris' review of In a Mirror, Darkly and you'll see
Alternate scenario, I know but doesn't the new militarized starfleet ignore stuff like that now? Bashire wanted the Federation to surrender to save lives ( I really disliked him) Sisko helped put war doctrine made back in the 21st century back into starfleet to deal with new threats.
Oh yes! These "What If" scenarios are always so fascinating to think about.
always fun to
I think there's wiggly room in DS9's mirror universe to suggest maybe the Terrain Empire survived but is bottled up in their own territory. If there's a post Voyager show they need to make it canon.
That would be cool
Why would the Terrans destroy the surrendered Starfleet ships? Analysing their technology would be useful but even simply taking control of the Starfleet ships and adding them to the Terran fleet would be worthwhile.
Probably also having learned some lessons in regards to starfleet's annoying habit of retaking their captured ships.
They would take them back to the Empire as Prizes, and to study them for any advantages.
"Evil Janeway & then the good mirror universe Janeway." I saw what you did there.
I try
"The good, mirror universe Janeway" had to pause there... Lol
Read "Mirror Broken" It takes place in the mirror universe, at the same timeframe as DS9, but it turns out that the remnants of the Terran empire still control Earth.
That's Intereating
Lore Reloaded the art is awesome too, good mirror tng
Basically, "Mirror Broken" says the the destruction of the Terran Empire is propaganda by the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance. However, the Terran Empire has been greatly diminished and in incapable of launching an offensive against the Alliance. They are primarily focused on preserving what territory they have.
So Mirror Bashir and Smiley hear about Darvin going back in time and do the same in their universe to kill Mirror Spock, restoring the Terran Empire.
Evil Janeway... and the mirror Janeway... HA! Yes mate, made ma day
Evil Janeway and Mirror Janeway! HaHaHaHaHa
i would eventually see that the federation Alliance would eventually win but with easily double Dominion War Level Casualties
You have to admit, "Intendant Kira" did some Kirk-level scenery chewing in the DS9 mirror.
Is it just me or is it COMPLETELY HILARIOUS the way you portray "Admiral" Janeway?
At this point section 31 would engage protocal "last stand" with threat of total destruction at hand they were to show all their cards. Cloaked ships with phase technology and future blade of armor that have been building in ship yards since the pagasus returned and "dismantled" armed with tens of thousands of elite trained holograms with mobile emitters would with ease decloak just long enough to energize beam threw there shields and kill and disarm the ships. With little to no proof of there involvement a select crew of Starfleet ships would cleanup and create a cover story. We keep good Janeway in exchange.
Jackson Kennedy section 31 too op pls don't nerf
I like this idea... very cool concept. Keep it up sir!
Love these alternative scenarios they're so much better then what's being produced by "Hollywood/CBS" This should be an interesting series.
You are hilariously sarcastic...sometime I have to listen to your videos twice to get all the jabs...lol! Keep making these great videos! :)
Still waiting for part two !
Dude you deserve a like for good mirror janeway alone had me laughing
Just a thought...what if Yesterday's Enterprise was REALLY in the Mirror Universe?!!
Part 2 please!
What about the mine field around the wormhole as they would have been insane not to rebuild it after it was destroyed.
With the dominion defeated the treaty talks about open trade so I doubt it was rebuilt
But it was destroyed in the middle of the war during the battle to retake DS9! Alvo they may have still deactivated it after given how aragon star fleet was to external threats and to help promote peace and trade.
Way back, I wrote a small piece of lore fiction on if the Terran Empire had survived in the prime universe as the remnants escaped into the Prime universe and remained hidden since the TOS era where the fall happened. They spend years hidden within the Federation, infiltrating every level of system because it's "soft" compared to the empire and this would be one of the reasons why the Federation became so militaristic over the years, how aggressive Section 31 has become. A much more slower soft power way of taking over the universe than brute force. They'd use the logic of "weaknesses" of the Prime universe to convince them to be more like them, that their way of thinking will not work against the aggressive enemies of their universe, Klingons, Cardassians, Romulans, Borg, the Dominion, etc
How my story continued is the Imperial Remnants begin a coup with infiltrators showing up everywhere across the Federation and we see ships turn on each other
Picard would call in a favor to Q. End of Empire.
Merlin na Glenlyon yup
loved this
Again, this would be a better movie than the last few...disappointments.
Maybe it'll get used by CBS:)
Lore Reloaded 😂😂😂😂😂😂
still a better story than the last jedi.
jmferr2011 An hour of watching people fall down stairs (not getting hurt) would better than TLJ.
Here's an important question: did the Terran Empire ever have to fight the Borg? Did a mirror Janeway come back in time to give her past self Transphasic Torpedoes and Deployable armor?
Because unless we assume that Starfleet did not keep Transphasic Torpedoes in their arsenal after the events of 2381, they would have a huge advantage. If the Bajoran defense fleet were armed with them, and used them (before they were perhaps overwhelmed by superior numbers), that would result in heavy losses for the Empire.
OTOH, the Dominion War and Borg Invasion would have probably cost Starfleet tens of thousands of ships in total, and it is safe to assume that they would have still been rebuilding their fleet to not only replace their losses, but to replace the older ships forced back into service.
On another subject, I think that if possible, that shortly before surrendering, all of the ship's onboard tactical computers would be programmed to automatically fire their transphasic torpedoes if their sensors detected the loss of life signs of their crews, or the bombardment of Bajor.
I suppose that this would only make matters worse when the unmanned ships started firing in retaliation for the deaths of their non-human crew members...
After the Terran Empire's refusal to observe the proper treatment of POWs, I think that the Federation would not only declare war, but also institute a policy that discourages surrender, though that would depend on how the Terrans treated the Bajorans.
Hey Lore Reloaded, have you had a chance to read IDWs new Star Trek comic mirror broken? It had a similar concept as your taking with your video. In that they manage to incorporate some of the ideas that DS9 had for the Terrans, but does it without totally destroying the Mirror Universe like DS9 did. Loved DS9 but destroying the Terran Empire was a huge mistake. Great video keep it up.
Wasn't mirror Sisko killed in between mirror universe episodes in DS9? It was the reason Smiley kidnapped prime universe Sisko in "Through the Looking Glass".
Excited to see how this is going to go down
I’d probably send people to their universe “somehow” and unite what’s left of their aliens against them to force a battle on two fronts.
Entice them with promises of having their universe being like ours and even having proof of alien cooperation through the federation.
I don't think the Terran Empire would needlessly destroy the surrendered Federation ships. They would take them back to study them and gain futher advantages. These ships would also be a great Prize to show they are WINNING... I disagree with the taking of Cardassian terrority, this would slow down the Empire forces. They would first strike fast & hard at Federation shipyards and supply depots. Some of the Empire ships would bomb Federation worlds to create panic and tie down Federation forces in rescue operations.
Why destroy the surrendered ships?
Send teams over after the surrender, wipe the memory cores, load your routines, crew the captured ships.
The tech is similar and likely pretty easy interface with the mirror tech when given a blank slate
Ego and superiority complex..the empire thinks they are better than everyone else.
Would they bother with Cardassia or any other powers at this point? Attacking on multiple fronts would bring multiple groups into the fight, uniting both Alpha and Beta powers into a force to fight against the Terran Empire. Attacking only the Federation would at least give the appearance that they would only be interested in Federation worlds. For now at least.
I see what you did with Janeway.
Need an Oberth Class Dreadnought. Most dangerous of all craft.
Well, to be honest, Mirror Spock set the Terran Empire up to fail. Read the books. Granted the books are not canon, but they're the closest we'll get.
You know what would happen? Admiral Leeta's ship would get blown up a bajillion times.
possibly, yea
As long as Janeway doesn't come to the rescue with renegade Borg or something like that :)
No I can see this scenario play out as you described depending on how many ships the Terran Empire commits. But I have to question the effectiveness of Starfleet ships. Yes they would still be outgunned easily but take into consideration Prime Starfleet's progress made in light of the Borg and Dominion in terms of combat capable ships and the tactics. AFAIK, Mirror Starfleet never encountered either (that would make an interesting Lore analysis) so their tech is based more on what they intergrate vs innovate. I think Prime Starfleet would have done a better job at holding off the TE inflicting some decent damage.
Your Theory's are brilliant, whats next?
Odo to the rescue from the Gamma Quadrant???
The Romulans would probably panic seeing what a militaristic Star Fleet and develop some tech tech retrovirus that transforms people into space hippies.
Hey... maybe this is how prime universe Star Fleet was pacifist despite... everything?
Nice video Lore. May i use it as a starting point for Operation: Laconia (My plan for the Terran Empire to conquer the Federation)?
Are there other videos expanding on this as cant seem to find them
Well startrek online actually does this arc pretty well and explores it a bit
Never really liked the idea that you can trigger going to the mirror-universe and vice versa, especially given how easy it appear to be (O'Brien holding some device over a random console and suddenly the transporter can bridge realities). It made for some really interesting stories in DS9 which I all very much enjoyed, but I still find the idea rather weird.
First of all, where are all the other universes and why does no-one go there? Second, why isn't there much more crossing between the universes if it is that easy? One would expect mirror-universe people pop up everywhere.
It's an interesting concept for a TV series, creating many good plot opportunities (especially from a character perspective), but thought forward into a what-if-scenario it just feels more and more unreasonable.
However, if there must be such a scenario, your analysis is of course spot-on. Although I'm not even sure whether Starfleet even would have a whole fleet stationed at DS9, given that the dominian war is over.
The empire is in for an interesting fight
I think I'd sneak a cloaked ship into contested space near the wormhole and detonate a large quantity of Omega Molecules, rendering warp useless for, lets say to the borders of Cardassian space. Yea, there would be casualties, and the cloaked ship would effectively be a Hero's final mission, but this buys unimaginable amounts of time for the other races of the Prime universe to rally and set up defenses.
In the mirror universe Janeway is a humble Captain who values the lives of her crew, respects the rights of other cultures, and understands the consequences of her actions.
Need part two please !!!
I always wondered how the Prophets and/or the Pawraiths would stack up to the Q.
Def weaker. Regular weapons have affected the Prophets, only Q weapons have every affected the Qs
jiminfested true I was distracted by coolness, but yeah that makes sense.
Q is another level of evolution above Prophets and Paw-Wraiths. Omnipotent vs. Extra-Temporal/dimensional. They probably can interact and can hurt each other, but neither wants to touch each other. I think like the Organians and Dowd, higher species try not to interact with one another.
Also remember Sisko as far as we know is the only person in Star Trek to have Hurt Q without using Q weapons. He's partly Prophet, so to me this proves the Prophets extra-dimensional and temporaral nature is effective in harming Q members. Q never showed up again on DS9, probably warned off by Prophets not to interfere with their affairs or their "emissary".
Wen L. I just thought it was because he turned his interest towards Kathryn Janeway. Jean-Luc Picard was "no fun", because it was too hard to get a rise out of him. Benjamin Sisko was "no func, because he had " no sense of humor". At least that's what Q claims to believe. I guess it depends on whether you ask Q, Q, or Q.😆
Q still bugs people even if they're "no fun". Sisko was just threatening to him and even Q knows when to cut back on the jokes. Think about it, an alien species who have evolved into an extra-dimensional and temporal species just below omnipotent of Q, Dowd, and Organians. They might not have as much power as Q, but controlling space and time is too potent of a combination to mess around in their affairs. The Q's worry about the Borg as well, who don't possess nearly as much power as the Prophets, but why run that risk
Evil Janeway and Empress Janeway
hah, indeed..
There's not enough popcorn in this world to watch that fight
They would move ds9 to bajor, where it was in the beginning
The Dominion may join the fight against the Terran Empire. After all Odo will be in the Great Link at this point and he will push for helping the Federation and the other Alpha Quadrant powers. Besides it is in the Dominion interests to maintain the status quo in the Alpha Quadrant: the Terran Empire is a danger to everyone afterall.
The enslaved alien races of the mirror universe could also take advantage of the war and raise in a massive rebellion, forcing the Empire to split forces and hoping in the Federation Alliance help.
What do you think?
Sound Great
“This is Captain Benjamin Sisko of the ISS Defiant lower your shields and surrender and I’ll give you a quick death”
“Never the Federation won’t allow you to invade our territory let alone our universe”
“You under estimate the power of the Terran Empire, all ships take out our pethetic counter parts”
“With pleasure”
The Dominion, (glory to the Founders) would see the Terran empire invasion as a threat to be controlled. They would put aside Odo's influences and invade to thwart the Terran advance. Now would they all with the UFP-Klingon-Romulan alliance or subjugate everyone?
LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE! GLORY TO THE TERRANS!
For the record LR I'm a progressive but despite everything I love your content and believe you're a great creator and story teller. I really support your project with Jessie gender and lore runner sounds amazing and idc about the woke aspect of you having a trans individual. Its sounds great no matter who you were doing it with
Over time the industrial and governmental advantages of the Federation would grind out a victory unless the Terran Empire really gets lucky and overruns too much of the UFP within a few weeks.
I wanna pitch these to paramount as micro films released every month(still a film lol so cbs can pack up)
Love this scenario
'evil janeway'
-gets flashbacks to that one episode where an alien species is talking about the 'warship voyager', and reconstructing events from badly reconstructed data~
... We never saw actual mirror universe version of the TNG or Voyager crew did we. (I have a book which includes both, but otherwise not.)
We've seen most of the DS9 cast, and I guess technically Worf and O'Brien are TNG cast...
Enterprise had it's version (Long live Empress Hoshi), and Discovery, for all it's faults respected the continuity of Enterprise, believe it or not.
But we've never seen Voyager cast at all, nor most of the TNG cast.
Given the implications of DS9's mirror universe episode they'd probably be slaves, but whatever. XD
We have however seen a (fictional), evil Janeway.
And those gloves... Such a subtle thing, but it just works. XD
So much more subtle than the Mirror universe uniforms and those knives they all carried...
Are there more videos of this?
I think all the races will be glad the Federation is the way it is, instead of what it could have been.
Was there a follow up to this?
I like the premises of this. Though I doubt the bajorns would fold so easily. I like that Picard and evil Picard. Also the Janeway is a good touch. My question is the good sisko alive?
It's a multi part series so the bajorans aren't out yet.. and same for sisko ;)
Could someone please tell me the song that plays during the video please? It doesn't appear in the description
It is now, Hit refresh, look at the bottom of the description
Id like to know what the mirror universe borg are like. The same? Completely different? Would a mirror drone just be part of normal universe hive mind? Or would it try to assimilate the normal universe borg? Lmao just food for thought
I don't see StarFleet accepting the Empire's promises, if the events mentioned in Pike and other sources were known. Just not seeing it.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
Woot
First off Janeway damed if she does damed if she doesn't no matter what she is just damed. 2nd if the source information is accurate then there are three mirror universe's halken, spector, & dark. Dark matches your story perfectly. United imperial federation anyone??
love being a patrion and seeing this already :P may watch it again though
One of the perks!
i forget, we get a live stream today?
mate that was decent. how about some what if videos ?
What do you mean?
I am not trying to be critical, but problem is that you assume Post Dominion War Star Fleet would surrender Bajor or Bajorans would agree to surrender their homeworld to Terran Empire. We're talking about Federation that has lost millions in a war and is willing to commit genocide to win a long war. We're also talking about a Bajor that has endured century of Cardassian occupation and would rather see their world burn than surrender to an outside power.
I think a more realistic scenario is this, the Federation fleet cannot hold the line and Bajor is getting pummeled. With their prophets gone aka Orbs stop working too, they know this is the end, so instead of just surrendering like a TNG federation to a violent opponent, they send out Kamikaze Bajoran fighter ships against the Terran empire and Bajoran Personnel rig DS9 to explode. The Bajorans would force the Terran Empire into either destroying their worlds or committing to long drawn out occupation-like war on their planets, in either case it would be a war of attrition and scorched earth policy.
The Bajorans are not pacifists, even as members of the federation, they're comparable to Jews after the Holocaust, they take the concept of "Never Again" far more seriously than I think your scenario give them credit for. If they were willing to take on the Romulan Star Empire alone in DS9, why would you think they'd be any less willing to take on Terran Empire alone.
Did you continue this scenario?
Using the ricdiulous STD emblems for the Terran Empire?
However. How does the second Fleet sneak past DS9? The station is placed directly in front of the wormhole, just a couple of kilometers away from the entrace point. So naturally any fleet coming out of the wormhole would encounter the station and it's defense fleet. And Bajor isn't exactly near the station. I am not sure, DS9 is sometime incredibly inconsistent in that case, but Bajor is at least several hours at full impulse away from the station.
Bajor on the other hand is not that defenseless as you might assume. As an essential part of the Dominion war (DS9 formally belongs to the Bajoran Republic), and the first planet to be invaded when the Dominion would ultimately decide to take the wormhole and DS9 in order to establish a supply line to the Gama Quadrant, it is valid to assume that the federation had to assure that Bajor was not defensless. As the fleets are needed elsewhere, I guess the federation installed several orbital defense mechanismns and also granted some tactical upgrades to the Bajoran Militia ships.
When the wormhole now starts to behave strange, you can be sure that the first thing the Federation does is to increase the alarm status, not only for Starfleet but also for the Bajorans. Therefor we can also assume that a certain number, maybe all, Bajoran ships are lined up for defense. I am also quite certain, that at least the Romulans are triggered if they hear the wormhole is behaving strange, assuming that the Dominion tries to come back. They would withdraw forces from the Cardassian space, maybe even the Klingons would send some ships. let#s assume that.
When the first Terran fleet arrives Starfleet would encounter them alone, given the fact that it takes time for the reinforcements to arrive. The station has been evacuated, so there is only Starfleet and Militia personnel aboard the station. DS9 is placed in front of the Fleet and immediately opens fire with everything it got. After the first volley several Starfleet ships break formation, attacking the Empire ships with the aim to inflicting as much damage as possible and then fall back. While the capital ships stay behind giving long range support and ensuring that no ship can escape, the station begins the second volley inflicting less damage than with the first volley, but nonetheless enough to destroy several Terran ships.
The Terrans have no choice but to take out the station in a frontal attack, using their capital ships. In the meantime, Bajor is fully armed and operational, all ships and stations are manned. Starfleet is now involved into full scale combat with the Terran ships surrounding the station, but holds the line. The Terrans decide to call in their second fleet, which is ultimately turning the tide. Starfleet withdraw fromt he station, setting a new rendevouz point on Bajor, followed by the second Terran fleet and what is left of the first fleet (we also have to assume that some ships were left at the station to secure this strategical asset). On Bajor Starfleet regroups and forms a new combat line. Unlike the battle at DS9 the Federation now has no choice but to fight the Terrans with all they got. This results in heavy losses, but witht eh support of the orbital defenses and the Bajoran milita they can hold the line. A brutal fight, as the Bajorans are fierce warriors defending their planet to prevent another brutal occupation. As the majority of the Bajoran Militia was involved in the Bajoran resistance, they use hit and run tactics, seek out Terran ships, attack them and retreat. I think at a certain point the Bajorans would do suicide runs, to destroy as many ships as possible. Their ships are not as resilliant as the Starfleet ships, but due to their experience during the occupation the Bajorans know how to use that disadvantage.
As Cardassia is not far away from Bajor the fastes Ronulan and Klingon ships arrive in the Bajoran sector. They engage the Terran ships, using the element of suprise and destroy a large number of Terran vessels. The Terrans now have two choices. Stand in orbit of Bajor, fighting on two fronts, or withdraw to DS9 securing the only connection to their universe. But without DS9 the Terrans will ultimately lose. So they have no choice as to defend DS9.
Not sneak past, Fly past - given that it is already heavily engaged.. And the Emblem is canon.. alas ;/
Fly past a station directly in front of the wormhole and at least one Federation fleet? Does that seem very likely?
you consider it canon. Okay. On the other hand the Terran emblem from TOS is also canon. And that is ten years later. They can't be both right. And can STD truly be considered canon? It breaks the canon on every possible occasion. So I tend say STD has its own canon and should be ignored for Trek lore.
It does actaully given that they were already engaged in fighting
Both emblems can be right as well..given they could have been modified or changed. When it comes to the emblem..your argument is with CBS ..not me.
Ok, leaving aside the emblem.
It still doesn't make sende that a whole fleet comes out of the wormhole and passes a battlezone without being noticed or attacked.
Evil Janeway, good mirror universe Janeway.
It's different of they wanted to invade the prime verse or destroy it. If they want to destroy, they could easily go ahead and exterminatus'd the galaxy, but if they want to capture though...
So... we’re assuming THE SISKO doesn’t come in to bitch-slap the mirror mooks with his ship, the “mofo-ing pimp hand”?
You never know, this is a multi part episode ;)
Dude! Part II?
Slight advantages(mirror) in tech would be outweighed by the cohesive and smoother tech by the Fed. Then the whole numbers thing.. hundreds of allied species in the Prime Fed, KDF forces and whoever else joins in.. Terrans would be a minor threat. Only in the first week would the Terrans have any numeric advantage. Instantly after the first attack The KDF would ravage them the feds taking their time form a large fleet and wipe them out.. divided foreign forces Vs massive alliances.. The post dominion alpha quadrant would use the small Terran forces as target practice. Then likely resume their petty conflicts.
STO had a mission where this actually happens
In the mirror universe, are Section 31 the opposite of their Prime Universe counterparts? Are they a bunch of pacifists who try to undermine the Empire?
I would say the mirror universe isn't technically everything opposite, just a darker universe. I think a DS9 episode pointed it out. So I think Section 31 in the mirror universe would be an official intelligence group
PLEASE STOP
REFERENCING
THAT ATROCITY
STAR TREK
DISCOVERY
I know it's bad but it doesn't deserve your level of hate. I know it's not star trek style but it's still have some good. (In it's own way)
what im thinking is how could it even be counterparts in this mirror universe considering how they use murder to advance in rank how could it even sustain itself how would it even be a captain Janeway or any of her crew or for that matter any of the other beloved crew from the 6 series period wouldn't they most likely not even exist cause their four fathers were murdered isn't this the most likely outcome
All hail the Empire... wait a minute
wouldn't the terran empire want to use any captured star fleet ships instead of destroying them. since you took their crews off just beam over new crews, change a few codes and you have replacements and all the data the computers would have would be priceless intel to get their hands on. it is different universe after all
I dont think they would do to ego..why use inferior tech made by aliens? I dont agree with it.. but I think it's what they would do
Where’s part 2?
Where’s this come from?
I wonder what the fate of Federation POWs is?
The Aliens killed after torture and the Humans enslaved or killed as traitors to their own race?
they also have the Defiant from Enterprise
I have mixed feeling about that one.. it is an old ship by that point. While it would have advanced the Terran Empire's tech or fighting capabilities during that time... would it still advance after the initial jump or would they plateau? I could see it both ways... a Terran Empire roughly 100 years more advanced in tech or only a decade or so.
Brian Griffin I probably say a few decades at most. They would have had to reverse engineer the tech and then build up their infrastructure to produce it.