Well so was Hades too. There is a reason why it makes so little sense for Hades to be a villain when you actually based it of the source mythology. He, after all, is the god of riches and get to boss around all dead people. Though personally, I like to see him as this bureaucrat of the underworld that is just doing his job. Unlike his two brothers. This also does not make him a good guy and you can see why people do not like him. But it does make the character sympathetic in a way. But yeah. I guess the Disney version would jump on the chance to be the god of riches. ;)
How Zeus, Aphrodite and Hera always get portrayed as good will always irritate me to no end. Hell, Aphrodite is the one that started the whole Trojan War, then kept it going just because she took her shipping too seriously.
Actually in those three cases the only reason they were talking about well is because you didn't want to piss them off. If you look at their behavior in the various Tales told about them Zeus the king of the Gods is a hopeless manhore who can't keep it in his pants. Hera is the jealous shrew of a wife who's more interested in punishing the bastard children and unwilling participants of his uses philandering, and Aphrodite is even though the goddess of love and beauty is vain shallow and fickle. Like I said you didn't want to piss these off. In fact if you go back and you look at Athena the goddess of wisdom is cold and calculating and spiteful Apollo is vain as well full of himself he self-importance and a hopeless braggart Hey sister Artemis was a man hater Mars himself was often portrayed as being cowardly Dionysus was a drunkard Demeter the goddess of fertility was so overly protective a parent it was inferred that Persephone was willing to go with Hades to get away from her. Of all of these it seems the only two Gods to ever really be shown in only positive light what's Hesperus Hestia the goddess of the hearth who willingly gave up her seat on the Council of God's to go into the kitchen what she felt more comfortable and Hades himself who took his job one of the few guys that actually had a job very very seriously even though Zeus cheated him out of any real chance of being anything other than the god of the underworld since at the dice row he cheated his two brothers. Hades was also the master secrets of sooner or later he found out about that but never made a big deal about it however he pressured Zeus for Persephone by some tellings. In this you could see the lives of the Greeks played out before you and it is the bad qualities of the gods that humanize them the most. But again the last thing you wanted to do was talk badly about any God in particular the ones that could do you the most harm. Zeus the king of the Gods, Harrah his wife the goddess of women and marriage Aphrodite the Goddess of love and beauty in fact any God of any importance that could screw you over you only talked about about in sort of secret or metaphor or an original Tale in which you could be forgiven because I know you were just drunk. Or having a good time or merely telling a joke. This whole sort of informative expression through tails epics stories and so forth is a perfect mirror 4 Greeks and their society and culture. Something that we in the western world today do not really have the opportunity to either experience or voice. As most of our gods you don't talk bad about them. And the dikotomy places more importance in the gods that can give you a good afterlife then the other side of the coin again a mirror even though an obscured one for ourselves on our time and our culture.
And not for nothing if you look at it this way to the gods who were seen as being intrinsically good We're Just Fishing on the outside svidis was ugly and possibly deformed, Hestia was a wet noodle, and Hades was an old stick-in-the-mud whereas if you conversely look at the gods who were good on the outside they weren't so good on the inside. Again quite telling.
My only question was; which part of the Underworld were they focusing on? According to Greek mythology the underworld is split into three segments; Elysian fields (akin to Christian heaven): bright and were the heroes are honored and able to live carefree lives, Tartarus: (like Christian hell) flames and where the evil or cruel are punished for their misdeeds, and Hades in general which was like Catholic pre-reformation Purgatory.
I feel obligated to share the Dresden Files interpretation: "Do you know my dog’s name?” “Cerberus,” I said promptly. “But everyone knows that.” “Do you know what it means?” I opened my mouth and closed it again. I shook my head. “It is from an ancient word, kerberos. It means ‘spotted.’” I blinked. “You’re a genuine Greek god. You’re the Lord of the Underworld. And … you named your dog Spot?” “Who’s a good dog?” Hades said, scratching the third head behind the ears, and making the beast’s mouth drop open in a doggy grin. “Spot is. Yes, he is." ...there.....that is a thing you read now.
a moment that also goes hand in hand with hades giving a subtle nod to mouse by comparing him directly to cerberus, and an even bigger nod to harry by comparing harry to himself.
Glad not the only one who went immediately to this convo! What I got outta that is "I'm a dog guy, you're a dog guy, we cool? Cool. Good luck fam you're gonna need it"
Honestly I feel for Hades man. He gets such a bad rap when he was basically the overseer of the afterlife and by all accounts a good god. Even the story of Persephone was more just... how marriages worked among the wealthy back then with a ritualized abduction of the bride. Yeah the greeks had a misogynistic society so this doesn't EXCUSE it but by that time's standards he was actually a gentleman who played by the rules and got the proper permissions first (which, again, misogynistic society as proper permissions did not include the mother or the actual intended wife). And heck it became kinda well known that Hades was the nice one- Persephone was the terrifying Queen of the underground who could be the most cruel. See: the story with Psyche. Which honestly kinda makes me think about our society where we erase all the strength and agency of Persephone in the religion and paint her as a wide-eyed victim and belittle her own strengths as queen of the undergound and goddess of fertility to instead simply make her a daughter and abducted wife, Not to mention I wonder how much of the continued satan imagery with Hades is because of America's (since many of these iterations are American made) fear of death and aging.
@Mullerornis in a pantheon where some woman got turned into a spider by Athena because she was jealous of her weaving skills, or where Hera forced Hercules to kill his family just cause she was jealous that Zeus liked him so much, I don't think that such a bad trait to have
Plus Hades was the only god that never cheated on his wife. He was pretty much Will Smith style, "Look how awesome my wife is!" They fell in love and he treated her like his equal in every way, unlike Demeter that treated her like a child. Hades literally made a part of the underworld where good souls would go, Elysium, just because she asked him to. Persephone missed her mother, but she didn't want to leave the underworld. It was Demeter threatening to kill every person on earth that forced her back to the surface for half of every year. Hades gets such the short end of the stick in film.
You feel for this guy whenever Orpheus sings the Epics. Hades is genuinely afraid Persephone might not come back one day so he sends her back too late and takes her home too early and doesn't realize that he's making her miserable by it. Even while she's gone, he forces the underworld to be artificially brighter and warmer to entice her to stay longer with him, but she's upset that the natural beauty of the underworld is now ruined by the pollution and suffering he's done for her favor. Even when he threatens to cheat on her to make her jealous, he tells her to imagine it as if it were him embracing her. The guy is completely lost for Persephone.
@h193013 this video came out before the Canadian tryout in 2017 that winter. I think this video also pre-dates the release of the Off Broadway cast album. Unless Lindsay saw the off Broadway production or was a fan of Anaïs Mitchell. She probably hadn't heard of it at the time. Plus the show was super different at this point in time.
Just shows how tragically bad and horribly adapted Percy Jackso was. Hades wasn't even remotely villainous in the book and WAY closer to the original mythology version, and Persephone wasn't around at the time.
She first shows up in the Demigod files given the children of the big three a joint quest to help Hades by retreaving something stolen by the titans. and the Second Series use Persephone's kidnapping was a consensual ruse, and most of the Story was Demeter's point of view.
If you all want a very good(and funny!) review/explanation why it is so bad/ putting words to things that nagged you but you couldn't quite put into words : go watch The Dom 's book to movie adaptation critique! It is amazing!!
@@tvdsje Thanks, I will watch this! Semi-related but the author of the Percy Jackson books recently made his communications with the folks in charge of the film public, and it really shows he's just as, if not more, frustrated with the film makers as the fans are.
Joseph Losey. I don't know how they made another one, they cut out all the setup for sea of monsters that was in the first book. I can't bring myself to watch it
Well, kinda. Thanatos is usually considered more of a personification of Death in ancient Greek literature and cosmology, together with his twin, Morpheus (Sleep/Dream). They work like Phobos and Deimos (Fear and Terror), Nike (Victory) and Eros (Physical Lust), who are also not venerated gods, but rather anthropomorphic projections of basic human concepts, whereas the Olympic gods, i.e. the line of Kronos, are considered human-like beings with feelings and agency. Even then, it can get weird, as the common 'God of War', Ares, is originally more the god of senseless rage and initiative bent for chaos, whereas the Greeks considered Athena the goddess of careful strategy, cunning and martial virtue. There are maybe about 2 or 3 actual sanctuaries of Hades as the patron of wealth, fertility and oracle in the whole Classical world, the most famous one arguably Hierapolis/Pamukkale, but none whatsoever of Thanatos or any of the other negative personifications.
The portrayal of Hades in the Percy Jackson books is much closer to how he is in the actual mythology he's from. In it, he's grim, depressing, fond of complaining, and has anger management issues from time to time, but he's also content with his place and the power he has, always keeps his word, is never unnecessarily cruel, and isn't easily tricked. These are all traits that can't be found in pretty much any other god on Olympus except for Dionysus and Hephaestus.
Dionysus... is not just a fun god of drink. He's the god of madness and he can be extremely cruel in the mythology. On one occasion, told in Euripides' "Bacchae", he mind controls the entire female population of his home town and turns them all into terrifying ecstatic murderers who kill men and animals, including a very gruesome incident with the king who tries to climb a tree to escape them but then they *tear down the tree* and bodily rip him apart. The king's mother brings her son's bloody head home, thinking it's a lion's head, to proudly show off... then Dionysus lifts the curse on the women and they all are filled with the utmost horror as they realise what they've done. Then Dionysus sends the king's grieving mother and her sisters into exile forever. Because the king slighted Dionysus. That's it. He didn't murder anyone Dionysus loved. He just, rather understandably, refused to believe that Dionysus' mother Semele had been impregnated by Zeus.
@@e.s.r5809 They actually hint at that in the books. He's threatened to kill the students a few times and can be quite sadistic. He's kept on a leash by Zeus.
@@michaelhenry3234 Yeah Dionysus is never portrayed as a good being. He's better than Zeus, but that's not saying much as Zeus is the worst of the gods who let power go to his head. Absolute power corrupts absolutely is a fitting description of Zeus in general.
@@michaelhenry3234 Kronos isn't seen a good guy, the fact murdered his father for no reason other than power, and ate his children. [Zeus was given a pass on the father killing because it was also to free his siblings not just power]
@@geraldgrenier8132 It depends upon the version of the myth. In some, Kronos is a primordial time god (Chronos) and in others he's the tyrannical ruler Zeus overthrows. In older myths, his reign was called "the Golden Age" because bad shit didn't exist yet (Pandora's box had yet to be opened) and each age got progressively worse and worse. So in that myth, Zeus definitely fucked shit up.
My mythology professor compared Hades, to the introvert that preferred to stay at home and watch Netflix than party. Not evil. Yeah there is the Kidnapping of Persephone but in those days bride kidnapping was common and shouldn't be used as a blow against him. It's shitty but not evil by mythology standards. Basically the Osiris (lord of the underworld in Egyptian myth.) of Greece.
Plus in some versions he did ask for Zeus's permission first to take Persephone as his wife and since he was her father, well he technically decide who her husband was. Of course grabbing her out of the blue was a little abrupt but he didn't really do anything wrong when you consider how Zeus gave his ok.
He shows up in the Dresden Files' "Skin Trade" like that as well. The story there is that she went with him willingly, and Hecate leading Demeter repeatedly around the world was so they could have a quiet honeymoon.
Yeah, and as unequivocally wrong as kidnapping is, he was really courteous with her when they got to the underworld. Apologizing to her explaining that he had no choice due to her mother's adamant opposition against him wooing her. Then he stayed generally polite and hospitable so much that Persephone began liking him in return. Obviously there are many versions of this story but judging from his description of character I'd say it is canon; that is, a very popular version even in the ancient times.
Minor point: Zeus actually only ruled over the sky; his dominion over humans is... kind of an expectable outcome of that, but he holds no power over the earth itself. Hades' dominion, on the other hand, is what Ancient Greeks called "chthonic" - "of the soil." To the Ancient Greeks, the earth itself had, so to speak, "deep roots" and was dark and mysterious. It is of quite a bit of import that Hades, who was later renamed "Pluto" (Πλούτων), was often conflated with Plutos (Πλούτος), as his domain was the earth (as I mentioned), and the riches of minerals, gems and precious metals are found underground. The fact that their names were similar was also something the Greeks themselves thought was significant (a similar conflation did frequently occur between the gods Cronos (Κρόνος) and Chronos (Χρόνος)).
It is awful. There's literally no reason for it to be so bad except that the people who worked on it just didn't care about the story. If they'd done it well, they could've made a fantastic movie series, but nah, fuck that, no one cares about bringing life to THIS well-beloved story.
+TheSmashMaster9000 Getting a sequel doesn't mean much. Cool looking fantasy movie seen by many including fans who were hoping for a good adaptation. What's far more telling is that it still hasn't gotten any further than that, in an age where those kind of adaptations are basically forced out they were so bad they couldn't do a third.
I sadly agree, loved the books but couldn't get over how bad an adaptation it is despite the first being "enjoyable enough" if you forget there are books. I did feel LL fit an older PJ really well despite having blue as opposed to sea green eyes. Do you agree? I'm a bit bias to the actor I suppose
As a Percy Jackson fan, my poor heart crumples at the mention of the movies. There was many things wrong with it, but hades was one. Yes, he was an asshole, but all of the gods were portrayed as assholes. Point is, he was not an antagonist. Why must he be portrayed as raging Satan? In fact, the author did a good job in separating his hades to the western held visual of his character. The movies unfortunately messed this up and put a bad rap on the pjo series.
the percy jackson book series hades is not a villain. he's definitely not our protagonist's friend but he's not trying to take over olympus. and he cares about his children, which, exist. also persephone ain't trying to get away from him and even tricks percy, thalia, and nico into making hades a new cool weapon.
That moment when you realize that Hades makes a better dad than Poseidon. Which is weird because Percy is the main character so we have a first hand experience in how Poseidon is as a father, and he is not bad, he's just.......not there. To be fair Hades would make a better dad, he lets you visit/live in the underworld, and train in the palace. Which is a huge step up, as I am sure none of the other gods would like or ever tolerate their demigod children being living with them for more than a year.
Rachel Hollars Hades is more Goth than emo in my opinion, but yeah, you're right. He was a good plan person, albeit creepy, emotionally cold and even sadistic when he punished wicked souls.
In an earlier version, Persephone went into the Underworld herself. She was just skipping around in a field and found an entrance to Hades' palace then just refused to leave. Usually Hades just sit back and let Persephone handle all the punishment assignments and stuff, maybe goes off and build a train set idk
Ruelux Prince yea wasn't her name back then Kore or something like that. I like that version. She's all like "wow this place is awesome I want to stay".
Kore was the name Demeter gave her, but either Persephone chose her own name later, or Zeus gave it to her out of spite after begging her to leave the Underworld so Demeter would let the plants grow again and she refused. “Persephone” either means disobedience or destroyer. (“Kore” means “child/flower.”) And it is true that Persephone devises the punishments in the Underworld, and that the original story had a a Persephone with way more autonomy who went down on her own and wouldn’t come up and probably ate the pomegranate on purpose. There are stories where she shows away in Hades’ chariot, to ones where she enters the Underworld through a portal in a cave when she hears wails from the dead and meets Hades afterwards. Also, in a legend one of the poets wrote of Hercules, Persephone was the one Hercules deeply feared in the Underworld. Hades was less terrifying to him. And she’s referred to as “Dread Persephone.”
the wonderful thing about stories, is they can and are retold in different ways. Neo-pagans have retold the story to reflect just that story, that Persephone willingly went with Hades, the kidnapping was just a cover story in the end. She falls in love with Hades, and willingly eats the Seeds of Death, to ensure they can never be truly parted.....
Ruelux Prince I’m really sorry but this is entirely made up. “ A disclaimer, first of all: any post that says THIS IS THE ORIGINAL MYTH is going to be wank, because we don’t know what the original myth was - we only have the first written sources, but without a time machine there’s just no way of finding out how the myth developed in an oral tradition. So already, we can debunk about 80% of that post. Groovy. The first source we have for Persephone being carried away is in Hesiod’s Theogony, written in the 8th or 7th century BC. We also have the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, written in the 7th or 6th century BC, which is explicitly about her being taken away by Hades. Hesiod is one of the oldest Greek sources that we have, roughly contemporaneous with Homer. We don’t have any earlier sources than this which say ‘hey, Persephone went to Hades because she thought it would be cool’. A lot of people have theorised that this could have been an original, or at least an earlier tradition, but it’s about 60% wishful thinking, 20% misinterpreting evidence (i.e. assuming that Persephone and Demeter used to be aspects of a great mother goddess, which they weren’t) and about 20% conjecture based on actual rational thought (i.e. the fact that the oldest written source we have is about an abduction doesn’t mean that it is the original source; there could be older non-extant written sources or just oral tales which pre-dated writing). It’s not fact. It’s true that Homer himself never explicitly says that Persephone was abducted - he just describes her as Hades’ wife - but he also doesn’t say that she wasn’t abducted; it could well be that the myth of her abduction was so well known that he had no need to recount it. It is true that Persephone’s name was Kore, which means ‘maiden’; however, this could be an epithet because she was unmarried. It’s also theorised that it was a euphemism of sorts for when people didn’t want to name Persephone outright; again, this is a theory. Lots of gods had epithets - basically cooler names which underlined some of their core attributes, e.g. Apollo = Loxias, which highlights Apollo’s powers of prophecy. Unlike the post claims, the name ‘Persephone’ does not definitively mean death / destroyer; the etymology is unknown. The ‘death / destroyer’ theory is just one of many, and others are based around ideas of harvest and grain. The reason Zeus got involved wasn’t just because he was tasked with sorting out justice - it was because he had told Hades ‘hey, you want a wife? Cool! Abduct my daughter, Persephone. Her mum totally won’t mind,’ and then when Persephone’s mother did mind, Zeus was like ‘I fucked up real bad, I should sort this shit out.’ In Ancient Greece, women didn’t have to consent in the same way as we do now. Abduction marriages were actually illegal (or at least very very naughty) but the bride’s consent basically took the form of her father saying ‘you’ll marry this dude, right? Yeah, cool. She’ll marry you, dude.’ Here, Zeus gives Persephone’s consent to Hades by telling Hades that he can marry her - this is why technically she wasn’t exactly abducted, because the necessary consent - her father’s - was given. HOWEVER, let’s not get into Greek law here. She was abducted by our standards. It is also true that Persephone became a very feared goddess and basically had a great time in the Underworld. She wasn’t exactly more terrible than Hades, though; there are certain myths (e.g. Sisyphus and Orpheus) where she’s the one who says ‘Hades, babe, shall we give this guy a chance to make his way out of the Underworld alive?’ HOWEVER, she did usually do this with the implementation of specific terms, meaning that she had a level of control in proceedings which a lot of other wife goddesses didn’t have over their respective spouses’ spheres. Most mythological canons also give her and Hades a very healthy and monogamous relationship (with the exception of Orphism, which is a bit more iffy on that front) so, disregarding the abduction part of her myth, their marriage was really relatively healthy, even by modern standards. Also, Persephone did not ‘lay the smack down on sinners’, as quoted in the original post - the whole idea of sinners is basically a Christian concept. The Underworld was not Hell. It wasn’t a place for bad people. It was just where the dead went. Tartarus was the place where the really bad guys went to be tortured and shit, and is more indicative of Christian notions of Hell. People weren’t punished in the Underworld. They just went there. I love the idea of Persephone as a consenting wife of Hades. I am a fan of modern reinterpretations in which she chooses to eat the pomegranate seeds willingly, or where she falls in love with Hades and goes to the Underworld of her own accord. However, these are modern interpretations, based on modern gender politics and ideas of reclamation and representation. I will forever fight for people’s right to reinterpret myths however they like, but this whole idea of the ‘original myth’ of Persephone being devoid of any misogynistic undertones really needs to die. I think it also speaks to a worrying argument that in order to empower Persephone, some people need to remove her trauma. Why can’t Persephone be a terrible dread queen of the Underworld and a survivor? Why should her experiences need to be erased in order to make her into a strong woman? If you ask me, she’s already stronger than Dwayne ‘The Rock’ Johnson. I don’t think that the modern need to reframe Persephone as architect of her own descent into the Underworld is necessarily as progressive as others think it is. I think it sends the message that a strong woman always has agency, and I actually think that a better message to send would be that it’s totally possible to lose your agency and still retain your strength, because you define yourself through your own actions, not what is done to you. tl;dr any post that makes a broad sweeping claim like ‘hey this greek myth was originally like this and u r all wrong’ without any sources is what my tutor would call ‘specious’ and what I call ‘bollocks’.” Courtesy of teashoesandhair on tumblr.
Wasn't the Percy Jackson series set up as this is a summer adventure so Persephone was NOT present and Hades was extremely against getting more souls in his kingdom and pointed out that Percy was an idiot? .......I'm so glad I didn't watch the movie.
If you want a very good(and funny!) review/explanation why it is so bad/ putting words to things that nagged you but you couldn't quite put into words : go watch The Dom 's book to movie adaptation critique! It is amazing!! You don't have to watch the movie even :)
@Mullerornis To be fair, in Percy Jackson the gods adapt themselves to wherever "the West" is, and considering that America counted as "the West" they'd probably fall in line with our ideas of summer and winter.
My question is: why is Hades the bad guy but not Poseidon? I mean, he's always been the Lonley God, the resentful one. Odysseus stabbed his one-eyed son, in his eye and he cursed him to wander the seas for 40 years. And don't get me started on Hera ... Oh, she's a real villain? Have you ever tricked your daughter in law to give you son a poisoned cloack, after attempting at his life multiple time, since he was a baby, just to get a revenge on your husband? Well she did!
Because to the Greeks Hades was a scary guy who made sure everybody stayed dead and they did not like him at all for it. Persephone was more prominent in mystery cults because she didn't spend all her time in there. Also they kinda sided with Hera on her vengeful ways because as the goddess of marriage it was in her nature and they didn't hold it against her, and she was his wife so of course she would be a nag so you just have to bear it. They also had no problem with Zeus's infidelities because he was cool and masculine, plus women enjoyed sex better than men so that somehow made it commendable. Odysseus showed hubris when he told Polyphemus his true name and to the Greeks Hubris is worse than murder so he had it coming.
@@donjezza10 Naturally, the God of the Sea would be pretty cruel. A lot of Greeks died sailing the sea, it was very dangerous and people feared it. The gods were a way for ancient people to understand and explain nature.
Hell, forget all of them, what about Typhon? He was more or less Greek Mythology's Big Bad! What, Hades is the big scary guy? HA! Typhon scared Hades shitless! No joke, when Typhon headed to Olympus to challenge Zeus, not only did all the Olympians except Zeus and Athena flee the scene, but Hades was said to have been cowering in the Underworld, not wanting to face the beast's wrath. And that was a smart decision, since Typhon was a metropolis-sized multiheaded multilimbed eldritch abomination kaiju spawned from the primordial embodiment of the Earth mating with the Greek version of Hell. Not even joking about that. And that isn't even mentioning all of _Typhon's_ kids--he married a sexy snake woman named Echidna and they had at least ten children who were all monsters; Cerberus? Typhon and Echidna's puppy! The Chimera? The Sphinx? Both Typhon and Echidna's kids! The Nemean Lion? The Lernean Hydra? The Eagle that ate Prometheus' liver? Typhon and Echidna's! In some versions the many-headed sea monster Scylla was also their child, though others portray her as Echidna's sister instead. Basically, Typhon deserves more appreciation as the badass villain he is.
The Percy Jackson movies are fucking infuriating. I mean, they fail as movies for one, but as a fan of the book and someone with a passing knowledge of Greek mythology, it makes me furious. The book goes out of the way to differentiate the underworld and hell, giving you a cliffnotes version on the general idea of the Greek afterlife. In the movie, it's just hell, he's just satan, it's fucking awful.
Oddly, one thing that bugged me about the movie (I just watched half of the first one and stopped there) was that a pagan girl I was dating had never read the books but had bought all the movies that were then out. Being pagan myself, I thought "hey, they must be a good representation of Greek myth and the books, awesome!" because it gets really annoying how christian-ized everything is in pop culture, even pagan mythologies. As I recall, I broke up with her not long after watching half of that first movie. I mean, that wasn't the reason, but it also was a little because she was a total faker.
Even His abduction was less problematic back in the day; He went to Persephone's father and asked for Her hand in marriage, which, back in the day did not involve the mother or bride... sigh where is a wall to beat my head against? But Haides is one of the most trustworthy of the Gods.
a hellenic pagan That and there are some versions where Zeus gives him the idea of kidnapping Persephone because of the fact Demeter would never allow her daughter to marry, much less marry the lord of the dead. All I can say is if you see how Zeus is with women in the actual mythology, you can see why he would suggest such to Hades.
I really, really, really wish there would some kind of movie, video game, book, and comic that actually depicted Hades as the dignified, terrible, and ultimately stern character that he actually was instead of a Satan epxy. Hades is more than just the god of the death, he also was associated with wealth and when he was paired with his wife Persephone, fertility, fortune, and hospitality. To use TV Tropes, he's less Darkness is Evil but more Dark is Not Evil and maybe even Sacred Darkness. Hades did not play favorites; when you died you were treated accordingly to your behavior in life, and he made sure that the dead stayed dead while permitting the living to commune with their loved ones that have passed on if he was given the proper respect he demanded. He was less like Lucifer in the Bible and more like Mandos in the Silmarillion, a passive but ultimately dependable figure that ensured that the world ran smoothly, ultimately to humanity's benefit. As much as death scares us, the dead coming back again is even worse, plus everyone likes gold and gemstones. That all sounds way more interesting than what we're getting now. There are so few positive, or at least not-evil figures associated with things like death and darkness in general.
There is. Hades shows up in Jim Butcher's last Harry Dresden novel, "Skin Games", as the keeper of a vault in the Underworld. He's calm, terrible, but not at all evil; in fact, he has a strong sense of duty. Butcher seems to be expressing the very same frustration as you, because during their conversation, Harry makes a point that in the original myths, Hades just shuts up, does his job, and doesn't mess around with humans like his two brothers. Hades tells Harry that his dog's name, Cerberus, comes from the Greek word for "spotted". "You named your dog 'Spot'?"
I already loved the series, but when they depicted my favourite greek god accurately? perfection. In the end he identifies with harry since he's just a man who wants to be left alone with his dog and is grossly misunderstood by modern pop culture.
read the Percy Jackson books, all gods are very accurately depicted, personality-wise, with Hades being one of the most reasonable. Sure, he had a tiny bit of godly impatience, but he was actualy against unnecessary violence and death, prefering to let things progress naturaly up above. He had a small grudge against his two brothers, but this grudge was more like real-life family grudges, and he was also carying for his demigod children and mortal wife. They also depict Thanatos on later novels, since few people know Hades is the god of the dead, Thanatos is the god of DEATH, the greek grim reaper.
As a mythology buff who especially loves Greek mythology, Hades is kind of my favorite. And I tend to get pretty upset about Satany-Villain!Hades because Hades is honestly a much cooler dude than that and STOP MAKING HIM THE BAD GUY! But I do love James Woods portrayal of him in the Disney movie because charismatic villains with a sense of humor are a weakness of mine. (I was a kid when the movie came out, but greek mythology has been a life-long love of mine, so my reaction was basically "I don't know why you're here, but please don't go"). The Percy Jackson movie version was doubly insulting because of the usual Satany-Villain issues and also that's not how he is in the books! Hades in the Percy Jackson books is stern but fair, and does his job well despite feeling a little bitter about his lot. The Percy Jackson books overall are very loyal to the original mythology and are a fun update to the ancient stories that I cannot recommend highly enough. (Do not watch the movies. In fact, pretend you don't know the movies exist)
I like the Stern But Fair!Hades. Disney's Hercules made me like him, later research made me adore him. Context is very important to understanding a character in any scenario, from the Bible, to Greek Mythos, to the "Macaroni" line in Yankee Doodle Dandy. He kidnapped Persephone not because he's the Devil or something, but because that's how it was done at the time. There's also nothing that says she didn't like it there. From what I understand, she was truly queen and goddess of curses, as in cussing someone out/"I hope something bad happens to you". Honestly, when I recently looked her up, she fit the Satanic archetype better than her fair, loyal, loving husband did.
Not sure if you've seen/heard it, but Anais Mitchell's folk opera Hadestown has a really interesting interpretation of Hades. Hadestown takes the Orpheus & Eurydice story and transposes it into the Great Depression sort of? In the world of the opera, there's great poverty which can seemingly only be escaped by venturing to Hadestown, an underground city which promises stability for its inhabitants by giving them work - the work of building the city itself. Eurydice, rather than dying by accident, is convinced by Hades to leave her poor poet boyfriend and go with him to live in relative prosperity. Hades in the opera is a smooth businessman who exemplifies capitalism at its greediest. He leads his workers in a brilliantly repetitive song about how 'the enemy is poverty, and the wall keeps out the enemy, and we build the wall to keep us free' that gets across the disturbing implications of isolationist rhetoric in a form that sounds reminiscent in form of the sort of children's rhyme that builds upon itself with each verse. His desire above all is to keep his empire strong, and he believes he's doing the right thing for people by giving them work. However, in the end his people are tools for him: as Orpheus sings of him, 'the heart of a king loves everything like a hammer loves a nail'. He's resisted by Orpheus, starving poet who nearly incites a rebellion in his quest to get Eurydice back from Hadestown, and somewhat by Persephone, who's also given an interesting treatment. In Hadestown Persephone takes advantage of her half-year spent aboveground by collecting bits of the surface world, which she sells for the other half of the year in basically a nature-themed speakeasy. She sells wind in a jar, rain on tap, spring flowers, autumn leaves, 'moonshine' and her version of a peep show, a hidden crack in the wall of the town that allows a glimpse of the sky. She very much has agency in the story and plays a big part in assisting Orpheus' rebellion, but also seems to really love Hades in her way. Anyway, I've gone on long enough, but suffice it to say that Hadestown is a really interesting piece of theatre and well worth a listen. I recommend Hades' song 'Why We Build the Wall,' which is really chilling to listen to lately. And it's definitely a departure from the usual Hades.
the day that i hit the notes of eurydice’s harmony in “why we build the wall” was the best day of my life. and then i couldn’t sing it again for about a month. don’t push your vocal cords too hard, kids.
I saw it on Broadway a few days ago and HOLY SHIT IS IT GOOD!!!!!!!!! I loved every moment of it, and was impressed with Hades' portrayal to no end. There's also Hermes, who's essentially a Cab Calloway narrator type; the Fates, who constantly sing in three-part harmonies; and a 5-person Greek chorus who all have the same movements. I could go on and on about how amazing the show is, tbh.
What gets on my last nerves, is the fact that Hades is always a bad guy! He's not, the only bad things he did was kidnap Persephone and to occasionally be an obstacle for a hero. For a Greek god, he's got a pretty good track record. He just has the job of being Lord of the Dead.
I'd love to see a version of Hades who is basically an accountant of sorts. Just a nerd with glasses trying to keep Hades up to date. Negotiating if people really deserve to go to the elysian fields or not.
It's kind of ironic as hades is actualy the god who was not only the most reasonable, but the one with the shortest list of "fuck ups" compared to, well... his two brotehrs Zeus and Poseidon! Both were FAMOUS for their hissy fits causing the storms, earthquakes, hurricanes and tidal waves, but had Hades ever caused, dunno, a zombie apocalypse? Not to mention, when becoming the Roman god Pluto, Hades kinda gained an "Upgrade", becoming the god of not only the dead, but EVERYTHING below the earth, which made him god of the riches. Hence the term "plutocracy", which is a society controlled by the *wealthy* minority. And yet, he is the villain...the guy who literaly got the worst third of the world and now make sure the dead are in order. Not to mention his realm stands for hell, purgatory AND heaven. Hades literaly owns Heaven.
"Had Hades ever caused, dunno, a zombie apocalypse" Now take this with a grain of salt but I read that, according to an unfinished part of the Gigantomachy, yes, once, but it was for a purely justified reason. Basically, it went that he and Persephone arrived to assist their fellow Gods in the battle in matching chariots accompanied by an army of the undead. And honestly, if that ain't relationship goals, I dunno what is.
Hades was awesome in the Dresden Files. He's super polite to Harry (who just barged uninvited in his vault) and takes to playfully point out that his dog Cerberus' name, translated in English, is Spot. Harry loves it.
Would love to see Lindsay do a part 2 for this, would just love to see her talk about Hades in Descendants 3; Lore Olympus and most inportantly Patrick Page's portrayal of Hades in Hadestown the musical, looking at both the original and broadway production.
As someone who adores the Percy Jackson books, the movies infuriated me. They took out important (at least to me) points from the books (ANNABETH IS A BLONDE) and added things that didn't even happen in the books (I love the Hydra but that didn't happen). They also left out a tiny little moment like idk PERCY FIGHTING ARES
Miranda Lo I know right? Thats what you focus on? not the fact that they spit on the cleverly hidden world Rick crafted? THEY LEFT A HUGE PETRIFIED HYDRA IN A TOURIST LOCATION THAT HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ATTEND. THE REVIVED KRONOS IN MOVIE 2 AND HAD HIM EAT LUKE!
Annabeth being blonde was a bit character point, as she's annoyed by the stereotype of the dumb blonde given she the leader of her siblings, the children of the wisdom goddess. and given even if the actress you prefer to play the role might be a natural brunette, making her blonde in costume is about the most basic of the Hollywood bag of tricks, that it becomes a good example of just no caring. After all a lot of changes can be layed at the alter of adapting the story to a different medium, that not even keeping the easy stuff...?
Jim Butcher's book Skin Game had a pretty nice Hades cameo wherein he wasn't some evil overlord, but instead a pretty bored custodian of dead souls who had serious OCD when it came to decorating his vault where he stores all manner or priceless stuff. Jim also made the whole Persephone thing a willing pairing and also how the whole pomegranate seed thing was a "political fiction" that Zeus ran with. It was honestly my favorite interpretation of Hades to date. He also revealed how the word cerberus basically means spot, so Hades has a dog named Spot. I laughed way harder at that then I should have. Not sure how true that is, but ever since I read it I'm choosing to believe it is so.
The Hercules animated series were my favorite because of him. The episode where he tried taking over from the Fates' and had to learn to knit the Threads of Fate was friggin' hilarious - also, educational animation for kids, who knew?
I know this isn't a movie or TV show, but Kid Icarus has a very fun interpretation of Hades. He is still the villain, but the interactions he has with Pit and Palutena are amazing.
There's no explanation in Disney's Hercules the Animated Series about how Hades knew about Hercules still being alive BUT the end of the series does feature some Lethe water splashing, which I think accounts for the continuity issues (Lethe water causes forgetfulness, so it would explain Hades and Hercules not remembering each other)
The best part would be when Heracles goes into the underworld and finds them. He frees Theseus but when he tries to do the same for Pirithous the Underworld itself roars angrily, forcing him to leave the dude behind. Hades held a _personal_ grudge against him, and for good reason...
@@adrianj6795 I mean considerating the standarts of the time and his f*cked up family tree, Hades was like one of the few good apples. Also I would love to see her do a video on Lore Olympus.
Now that I've rewatched both this video and the Starscream episode, I think Chez should do an episode on another mythological god largely codified in pop culture by one work's interpretation: Loki.
Oh yeah, the greatest and unforgettable Loki in Son of Mask! (oh, and "chez" is not a name, it's French preposition often used in pub names, "chez Lindsay" meaning something like "at Lindsay's house" or "at Lindsay's place")
Maybe pop him on there again soon? :) I'd also love to see an episode on the biblical Satan, or even someone like Hitler or Stalin. (Who have all, excluding Stalin, been outvoted :P ) I love these videos, and it's evident how much time and effort you put into them. :)
I like Dresden File's Hades: In that universe, He and Persephone made up the kidnapping story because Demeter didn't approve of them getting married. He is also helpful and suave
It’s a shame this was only covered visual media and also came out a few years ago, because Hadestown has an interesting lense on the character. The broadway musical is new but the concept album is about a decade old now. Hades as Great Depression industrialist is an unexpected pairing that just works.
Actually, Zeus' geographic portfolio was mostly limited to the sky and heavens. Poseidon ruled both the sea and earth, as attested by Homer in the Illiad, when Poseidon is referred to by the title "Earthshaker", and throws a small tantrum that the invading Achaeans (Homer's name for the Greeks invading Troy*) are building a defensive stone wall outside Troy without performing the proper rituals to honour Poseidon. Zeus orders Poseidon to leave the wall be for now, because he wants the Greeks to win the war against Troy, but tells him he will be allowed to destroy the wall with an earthquake once the Greeks have won and returned home. It's clear from the text that the gods mostly share dominion of the earth, insofar as the earth is the home of humans, but Poseidon specifically holds sway over the geological forces that shape its surface, while Hades rules everything below that (because the ancient Greeks didn't understand how earthquakes worked). *Or Danaans, or Argives, or Hellenes... Homer had a lot of names for the Greeks, for some reason.
I need Hades from the Supergiant game added to this video asap.... Lindsay really knows her stuff... she describes that version of Hades pitch perfectly despite it being so unfamiliar to me from all the fanon versions I've grown up knowing.... Except the part where she referred to Dionysus as Bacchus. I wouldn't name my dog Bacchus.
Oh, it's from 2017. And here I was, waiting for the game character analysis and anxiously looking at the timer. Guess it's time for a 2020/2021 version of this video?
Another interesting aspect of Hades's portrayal in pop culture is the name "Pluto" which many people think was the name that Hades was given when he was adopted by Rome, which actually isn't the case. Hades's Roman name is actually Dis, not Pluto. Pluto comes from Pluton, an epithet of Hades which refers to his title as the giver of wealth and fortune as the holder of all the precious metals and gems in the world, and this is the name that was often used to refer to Hades because, as the god of the dead and with invoking the name often seen as invoking the god's power, he wasn't necessarily a god that you wanted around you, sort of seen as sort of like inviting the Devil to our door so he was often referred to in the more positive aspects like Pluton to avoid this, though the name Hades is often used in things like curses. Hades and the other Greek gods also weren't just adopted by the Romans, it's more like they got rolled into the already-existing Italic gods and goddesses and became reinterpreted by the Roman with many gods and goddesses taking on much different personalities and different qualities. Hades, for instance, is explicitly stated in Greek myth to be infertile and unable to sire children because he is the god of the dead, meaning he is essentially dead, too, but he became fertile when he was rolled into the Italic gods, becoming a father figure just like his Zeus and other male gods, referred as Dis Pater or "Father Dis" in Latin. Also, the Kraken doesn't come from Greek mythology, it's actually from Norse mythology. Yes, I know, I'm a huge mythology nerd. :P
If this video was made today I really hope that Lindsay would break down the Lore Olympus interpretation of Hades. Like it’s not too big of an outlier but it’s different enough to make some take pause.
First off that tongue comment is hilarious. Second, I also feel like that Hades is also more Satan related because of Dante's The Divine Comedy. Since hades pretty much has Greek heaven(eslyium), wandering purgatory(eslyian fields) and then super punishy-non flamey hell (Tartarus) under his dominion,(guess which are associated with Satan and punishment), Dante's paradise, purgatory, and the inferno aka punishment hell, are Christian related, I believe that the book reinforced into any Greek hades myth then translated into "oh no Hades/Satan he has punishment place and wandering". The translation for sure causes confusion, I think that any reading of hades would have a connotation of Satan. If this makes sense, please say yes cause I have no idea what the hell I wrote above.
I cringed my teeth when you talked about Percy Jackson movie Hedes. I hate that adaptation. I loved the books, but that thing.... oh, and the clash of the titans is so wrongly made 😣
Wait? In the disney show Hades had a crush on Aphrodite? What.... Well i don't blame him but still he doesnt strike me as someone who would get crushes
I don't even think mythos Hades gets sexually attracted to anyone. Most likely only Persephone, as she is his wife obviously...do they even have any children?
Hmmm...interesting. It looks like they are small characters in Greek mythology because they don't come up when I search, "Hades", or "Hades sexual history" they only come up when I search "Hades and Minthe" and "Hades and Leuke." Hmm...the more you know. Hades is still the least worst. Least worst, is the key word here.
Not a visual representation, but have you listened to Hadestown by Anais Mitchell? It's a folk opera (not sung operatic at all) about Hades, Persephone, Orpheus, and Eurydice. It's really cool. In that, Hades isn't trying to take over Olympus or really do anything except run his underworld when Orpheus kind of gets in his way trying to take Eurydice back. I saw the version live, but if you listen to the CD in order, it's easy to follow.
God that was so bad. None of the fast-talking used car salesman demeanor of James Woods Hades that made that Hades likable, but still trying to skirt off the coattails of that much better interpretation.
Man I got so pissed that they made him a villain but redeem Ursula and the goddamn EVIL Queen like wtf stop going the easy route and making him the villain
I really wish you could've done this video at least a couple of years later, the interpretation of Hades from, well, Hades by Supergiant Games is pretty damn great. There's a lot of reverence for the classical myths, and Zagreus' love/hate relationship with his grumpy dad is incredible. Also, Kid Icarus Uprising's Hades actually rivals the James Woods version in terms of camp and fun.
15:16 "שאול" is pronounced she-ohl, or she'ol (not as throaty as it sounds). "Άͅδης" is pronounced "Ehh-dhees" ("Hades" if you're really drunk or really Greek).
@@wonderlandian8465 It would make more sense for it to be pronounced that way since the first letter is an alpha and not an eta. Wouldn't the rough breather mean we still pronounce the "H" though?
6:40 I love how that's the moment she recognises him She's like "who's this man come riding out of the underworld on a spiky black chariot?" And then he lifts his visor and he looks like a 16-year old boy and she's like HADES WHAT
Yeah, even though I liked the 90s Disney Hades I was always a bit irritated how they made him kind of the campy 'friend' and completely left out Persephone. (I also get irritated when most things make their Hades/Persephone relationship an unhealthy one, but really they seemed to have one of the healthiest relationships in the mythology. Even figuring in the kidnapping.) Good video, though! I had forgotten how... super 90s the 90s were. Also, the volume on the video seemed a little low, but perhaps that was just me.
I prefer a more nuanced depiction of Hades because death is an inevitable part of life. Death shouldn't always be synonymous with evil. Also, in regards to the Disney Hercules version of Hades, I'll admit his "personality" was really interesting, but I wish they didn't "Satanify" him. The entire premise of the DIsney Hercules plot was weak and I recall didn't sell well, and maybe the Satanified Hades partially contributed to that. He could have been written as someone who indirectly "helps" Hercules on his journey by holding something in his possession that the hero needs as a nod to the original mythology. The whole "washed up salesman" personality and James Woods voice could still work with that. Although I figure Disney would never consider that since they prefer simplistic conflicts with a long face, high cheek bones, and dark color scheme, rather than a singular or series of obstacles a character faces as the main conflict of a story.
Lindsay, I really love your videos. I wanted to know if you have heard much about Barbie movies? They started coming out in the mid-90s and they're still being released on direct to video. Characteristics include delightfully terrible animation and teaching young girls to be themselves. I ask because though they are bad, they seem to be the sort of bad that still makes people remember them fondly. I'm in college and I've heard them talked about by several different groups of people in a positive light. I've watched a few, and they just seem to have a lot of elements to explore. I would love to know your opinion on them.
Oh god, I'm only 15 and I've seen at least 5 of them! they were atrocious, as far as I recall. I still watched one about 7 times though, because she had rainbow wings, and 4 year old me was jealous.
I think "delightfully terrible" is the perfect way to describe the animation. And I will say the original movies are much better than the current movies where Barbie has much more of a contradictory learning curve and is generally shallow. I would love Lindsay to talk about the series.
God, they're so bad. The setup for any one of them is basically: Skipper/Kelly: I can't do x thing! Barbie: Sure you can, let me tell you a popular fairy tale that I have inserted myself into to help you get motivated.
By far my favourite Hades is from the game Kid Icarus Uprising. Every time I think about him I just get a giant smile on my face. 1. His goal as a villain isn't to rule the world, but rather to perpetuate a giant war between gods because, in his words, "that's good for my business!' 2. He's James Woods's version except somehow even funnier, wittier and more devious and cunning than ever.
18:04 The book did him well Ares was the villain or "the god who has turned" and after Hades realizes Percy didn't take his helm of darkness he leaves them alone this just goes to show the directors didn't care about the books. During the series Hades is also one of the the least s***y godly parents, he lets Nico live with him and lets Hazel stay in the mortal world by turning a blind eye to her being an escapee from the underworld (Bianca dies really early on and chose rebirth so I didn't talk about her). Overall he also puts in the most effort protecting his demigod kids. He was the only one of the big three not to violate the oath seeing as all three of his kids were born before it. Meanwhile Zeus turns his daughter into a tree and ignores his son. Poseidon ignores his son until he needs him to do something, same with Hephaestus, Aphrodite and Athena. Meanwhile everyone else just ignores their kids completely.
With so much of modern Hollywood, it would be more ground breaking and fresh if they just stuck to the source material these days. A story about Hades trying to find love in a modern world? A romcom with a dejected guy who most women see as too pathetic to date, but yet is technically a god. Then he comes across a super peppy woman named Persephone, who is seen as an odd ball in the real world. They bond over their extreme opposite personalities but one common connection of being outcasts. This thing writes itself. Okay, it would probably work better as an anime, but it would work!
Man I wish Lore Olympus was a tv series when this came out. It has the best hades ever, and I will defend that statement to the end of everything! 😁⚔️💙
I'm really sad this video came out a year before SuperGiant's game was released. It adheres to the mythology pretty well and is probably the best portrayal of the god I have ever seen. While he is a jerk and the central antagonist, he isn't a jerk. He killed his parents, was given the worst job of his brothers, and his wife left him when their son was stillborn. Basically, he's got issues. Lots of issues. Seems par for the course in Greek mythology.
"The god of love wants us to murder everyone so he can have an oligarchy rule" I remember reading a book where it was literally Hades narrating greek mythology as it "really happened" It might have been good or horrible, I read it in middle school though and found it enjoyable then. Anyway he talked about how bad the other gods were and how he got a bad rap and stuff, that's the kind of hades that should exist, one that as the oldest son, was owed olympus but was willing to draw lots instead to allow his little brothers a chance and he took the worst of the 3 shifts (albeit one that gives him a very important role) for the sake of his siblings. Because of him, his siblings live a better life, he's the oldest sibling (albeit his sisters I believe are older but he's the oldest of the boys) who works so that his little siblings can go to college. He is the rock that holds the family together (controls the dead, keeps watch over tartarus where all the worst things that they couldn't kill rest in, etc). He also is arguably the strongest with the helm of darkness and the fact that whenever zeus is built up, it's always above the other olympians and not hades. Zeus was willing to let Hades keep Perserphone despite the fact that his sister protested it, and he made a deal when demeter went all emo and made the world a constant winter/fall for apparently years (ice age?) Which brings me to the whole persephone and hades thing, it always felt a bit consensual, demeter was the one who acted against it and not really persephone, so I'd say it's a mother's unwillingness to let her child go. (even after the deal that hades agreed with) Not to mention hades is pretty much the best to go for out of the greek gods romantically. He doesn't go around turning into eagles and rays of light to fuck people, he doesn't fuck horses (I'm looking at you poseidon), he isn't constantly fighting with his wife, he's powerful and respected, etc.
You know, watching this and your Aphrodite episode again makes me want a Hercules: The Legendary Journeys/Xena: Warrior Princess retrospective so badly.
I actually really love the helmet that Hades wears in the Hercules show. In the original Greek myth, Hades has a magic helmet that makes him invisible, and so I like the idea of a giant, ridiculous helmet. 😝
From my own research the reason Hades gets this type of treatment is because there isn't much known about him, people feared and respected him because of his rule over the dead, but feared him more, that's why he has so many nicknames people were afraid to even say his name so because there's so little about him he ends up getting associated with other images and aspects of death and the afterlife.
I love the video and just subscribed! I am truly bothered that most forms of media that depict Hades or the gods seem to forget about Persephone which sucks because she's very empowering as one of the only deities with two sides to them making her more complex. Not only that but in a lot of the variations of her meeting with Hades she fell in love and ran away with him and wasn't kidnapped or he was shot by Eros' arrow and she soon falls for him and willingly eats the seven pomegranate seeds ( food of Underworld varies). That's why we have winter is because she routinely goes back to the Underworld to spend time with her husband as part of a compromise Demeter made with Hades. Also, I love your lipstick!
You should totally check out the presentation of Hades in Hadestown concept album/musical! It's incredible and presents him quite wonderfully and 3-dimensionally!
"i wouldn't name my DOG pluto" shamefully made me laugh
if they had told him Pluto is also the god of riches, he would've jumped right in xD
Well so was Hades too. There is a reason why it makes so little sense for Hades to be a villain when you actually based it of the source mythology. He, after all, is the god of riches and get to boss around all dead people.
Though personally, I like to see him as this bureaucrat of the underworld that is just doing his job. Unlike his two brothers. This also does not make him a good guy and you can see why people do not like him. But it does make the character sympathetic in a way.
But yeah. I guess the Disney version would jump on the chance to be the god of riches. ;)
Amusingly he did however name his dog Spot. Cerberus is believed to mean "spotted", supposedly after the spots on Cerberus' fur.
In a few episodes, there is the reference of him being wealthy.
I was so sure this will be the top comment.
How Zeus, Aphrodite and Hera always get portrayed as good will always irritate me to no end. Hell, Aphrodite is the one that started the whole Trojan War, then kept it going just because she took her shipping too seriously.
Actually in those three cases the only reason they were talking about well is because you didn't want to piss them off. If you look at their behavior in the various Tales told about them Zeus the king of the Gods is a hopeless manhore who can't keep it in his pants. Hera is the jealous shrew of a wife who's more interested in punishing the bastard children and unwilling participants of his uses philandering, and Aphrodite is even though the goddess of love and beauty is vain shallow and fickle. Like I said you didn't want to piss these off. In fact if you go back and you look at Athena the goddess of wisdom is cold and calculating and spiteful Apollo is vain as well full of himself he self-importance and a hopeless braggart Hey sister Artemis was a man hater Mars himself was often portrayed as being cowardly Dionysus was a drunkard Demeter the goddess of fertility was so overly protective a parent it was inferred that Persephone was willing to go with Hades to get away from her. Of all of these it seems the only two Gods to ever really be shown in only positive light what's Hesperus Hestia the goddess of the hearth who willingly gave up her seat on the Council of God's to go into the kitchen what she felt more comfortable and Hades himself who took his job one of the few guys that actually had a job very very seriously even though Zeus cheated him out of any real chance of being anything other than the god of the underworld since at the dice row he cheated his two brothers. Hades was also the master secrets of sooner or later he found out about that but never made a big deal about it however he pressured Zeus for Persephone by some tellings. In this you could see the lives of the Greeks played out before you and it is the bad qualities of the gods that humanize them the most. But again the last thing you wanted to do was talk badly about any God in particular the ones that could do you the most harm. Zeus the king of the Gods, Harrah his wife the goddess of women and marriage Aphrodite the Goddess of love and beauty in fact any God of any importance that could screw you over you only talked about about in sort of secret or metaphor or an original Tale in which you could be forgiven because I know you were just drunk. Or having a good time or merely telling a joke. This whole sort of informative expression through tails epics stories and so forth is a perfect mirror 4 Greeks and their society and culture. Something that we in the western world today do not really have the opportunity to either experience or voice. As most of our gods you don't talk bad about them. And the dikotomy places more importance in the gods that can give you a good afterlife then the other side of the coin again a mirror even though an obscured one for ourselves on our time and our culture.
And not for nothing if you look at it this way to the gods who were seen as being intrinsically good We're Just Fishing on the outside svidis was ugly and possibly deformed, Hestia was a wet noodle, and Hades was an old stick-in-the-mud whereas if you conversely look at the gods who were good on the outside they weren't so good on the inside. Again quite telling.
Aphrodite puts even the most obsessed fangirls to shame with her obsession with her OTP's.
Aphrodite also hates any guy who decided to be a virgin.
'because she took her shipping too seriously' I am wheezing
"Don't panic. Heroes burst in here all the time."
I love the reference to the revolving door of the Greek underworld.
Kratos practically owns a flat in the Greek underworld at this point.
I remember a Hercules episode where Charon points out that he has ferried Hercules so many times despite him not even being dead.
My only question was; which part of the Underworld were they focusing on? According to Greek mythology the underworld is split into three segments; Elysian fields (akin to Christian heaven): bright and were the heroes are honored and able to live carefree lives, Tartarus: (like Christian hell) flames and where the evil or cruel are punished for their misdeeds, and Hades in general which was like Catholic pre-reformation Purgatory.
I feel obligated to share the Dresden Files interpretation: "Do you know my dog’s name?” “Cerberus,” I said promptly. “But everyone knows that.” “Do you know what it means?” I opened my mouth and closed it again. I shook my head. “It is from an ancient word, kerberos. It means ‘spotted.’” I blinked. “You’re a genuine Greek god. You’re the Lord of the Underworld. And … you named your dog Spot?” “Who’s a good dog?” Hades said, scratching the third head behind the ears, and making the beast’s mouth drop open in a doggy grin. “Spot is. Yes, he is."
...there.....that is a thing you read now.
a moment that also goes hand in hand with hades giving a subtle nod to mouse by comparing him directly to cerberus, and an even bigger nod to harry by comparing harry to himself.
I adore Dresden Files! And this conversation was my favorite in all of Skin Games!
FUCK YEAH DRESDEN FILES. SUPER DOPE
Glad not the only one who went immediately to this convo! What I got outta that is "I'm a dog guy, you're a dog guy, we cool? Cool. Good luck fam you're gonna need it"
That's exactly what I was thinking about; in fact, I wondered to myself if Jim Butcher watched this video while he was writing "Skin Game".
Honestly I feel for Hades man. He gets such a bad rap when he was basically the overseer of the afterlife and by all accounts a good god.
Even the story of Persephone was more just... how marriages worked among the wealthy back then with a ritualized abduction of the bride. Yeah the greeks had a misogynistic society so this doesn't EXCUSE it but by that time's standards he was actually a gentleman who played by the rules and got the proper permissions first (which, again, misogynistic society as proper permissions did not include the mother or the actual intended wife).
And heck it became kinda well known that Hades was the nice one- Persephone was the terrifying Queen of the underground who could be the most cruel. See: the story with Psyche.
Which honestly kinda makes me think about our society where we erase all the strength and agency of Persephone in the religion and paint her as a wide-eyed victim and belittle her own strengths as queen of the undergound and goddess of fertility to instead simply make her a daughter and abducted wife,
Not to mention I wonder how much of the continued satan imagery with Hades is because of America's (since many of these iterations are American made) fear of death and aging.
Liking this post was not enough: loved your comment
Agreed. He was less an actual bad person and more just someone with a job that requires to exist because without it the world would go into chaos.
@Mullerornis in a pantheon where some woman got turned into a spider by Athena because she was jealous of her weaving skills, or where Hera forced Hercules to kill his family just cause she was jealous that Zeus liked him so much, I don't think that such a bad trait to have
Plus Hades was the only god that never cheated on his wife. He was pretty much Will Smith style, "Look how awesome my wife is!" They fell in love and he treated her like his equal in every way, unlike Demeter that treated her like a child. Hades literally made a part of the underworld where good souls would go, Elysium, just because she asked him to. Persephone missed her mother, but she didn't want to leave the underworld. It was Demeter threatening to kill every person on earth that forced her back to the surface for half of every year. Hades gets such the short end of the stick in film.
Agreed. I mean, one possible translation of Kerberos is 'spotted one.'
The guy named his giant three-headed helldog Spot. How bad can he be!?
The Hadestown version of Hades is probably my favourite. He's dark, seductive, has some sense of empathy and humour genuinely loves Persephone.
You feel for this guy whenever Orpheus sings the Epics. Hades is genuinely afraid Persephone might not come back one day so he sends her back too late and takes her home too early and doesn't realize that he's making her miserable by it. Even while she's gone, he forces the underworld to be artificially brighter and warmer to entice her to stay longer with him, but she's upset that the natural beauty of the underworld is now ruined by the pollution and suffering he's done for her favor. Even when he threatens to cheat on her to make her jealous, he tells her to imagine it as if it were him embracing her. The guy is completely lost for Persephone.
I was going to comment that. Was the musical playing when this video came out.
@h193013 this video came out before the Canadian tryout in 2017 that winter. I think this video also pre-dates the release of the Off Broadway cast album.
Unless Lindsay saw the off Broadway production or was a fan of Anaïs Mitchell. She probably hadn't heard of it at the time. Plus the show was super different at this point in time.
Just shows how tragically bad and horribly adapted Percy Jackso was. Hades wasn't even remotely villainous in the book and WAY closer to the original mythology version, and Persephone wasn't around at the time.
She first shows up in the Demigod files given the children of the big three a joint quest to help Hades by retreaving something stolen by the titans. and the Second Series use Persephone's kidnapping was a consensual ruse, and most of the Story was Demeter's point of view.
Aaron O'neil Who cares? Percy Jackson is still an excellent book series.
Max Lim yeah excellent BOOK series not movie.
That's what I'm saying. I'm saying the book was great and the movie was terrible.
Aaron O'neil plus he should have been played by Dio
As soon as she bought up the Percy Jackson movie I was like ‘huuussshhh if we don’t acknowledge this it didn’t happen’
but they fucking made another one
If you all want a very good(and funny!) review/explanation why it is so bad/ putting words to things that nagged you but you couldn't quite put into words : go watch The Dom 's book to movie adaptation critique! It is amazing!!
@@tvdsje Thanks, I will watch this! Semi-related but the author of the Percy Jackson books recently made his communications with the folks in charge of the film public, and it really shows he's just as, if not more, frustrated with the film makers as the fans are.
Big mood
Joseph Losey. I don't know how they made another one, they cut out all the setup for sea of monsters that was in the first book. I can't bring myself to watch it
Hades is actually the god of the UNDERWORLD, not the god of death. Thanatos, Hades's right hand man, is the god of death
Hades is the god of *the* dead, not of death
Thanos? Coincidence?
Yep, the right-hand-man who spent a month in a box...
@@ManicPixieFanGirl
No, Thanos is very much named after Thanatos.
Well, kinda. Thanatos is usually considered more of a personification of Death in ancient Greek literature and cosmology, together with his twin, Morpheus (Sleep/Dream). They work like Phobos and Deimos (Fear and Terror), Nike (Victory) and Eros (Physical Lust), who are also not venerated gods, but rather anthropomorphic projections of basic human concepts, whereas the Olympic gods, i.e. the line of Kronos, are considered human-like beings with feelings and agency. Even then, it can get weird, as the common 'God of War', Ares, is originally more the god of senseless rage and initiative bent for chaos, whereas the Greeks considered Athena the goddess of careful strategy, cunning and martial virtue.
There are maybe about 2 or 3 actual sanctuaries of Hades as the patron of wealth, fertility and oracle in the whole Classical world, the most famous one arguably Hierapolis/Pamukkale, but none whatsoever of Thanatos or any of the other negative personifications.
The portrayal of Hades in the Percy Jackson books is much closer to how he is in the actual mythology he's from. In it, he's grim, depressing, fond of complaining, and has anger management issues from time to time, but he's also content with his place and the power he has, always keeps his word, is never unnecessarily cruel, and isn't easily tricked. These are all traits that can't be found in pretty much any other god on Olympus except for Dionysus and Hephaestus.
Dionysus... is not just a fun god of drink. He's the god of madness and he can be extremely cruel in the mythology. On one occasion, told in Euripides' "Bacchae", he mind controls the entire female population of his home town and turns them all into terrifying ecstatic murderers who kill men and animals, including a very gruesome incident with the king who tries to climb a tree to escape them but then they *tear down the tree* and bodily rip him apart. The king's mother brings her son's bloody head home, thinking it's a lion's head, to proudly show off... then Dionysus lifts the curse on the women and they all are filled with the utmost horror as they realise what they've done. Then Dionysus sends the king's grieving mother and her sisters into exile forever.
Because the king slighted Dionysus. That's it. He didn't murder anyone Dionysus loved. He just, rather understandably, refused to believe that Dionysus' mother Semele had been impregnated by Zeus.
@@e.s.r5809 They actually hint at that in the books. He's threatened to kill the students a few times and can be quite sadistic. He's kept on a leash by Zeus.
@@michaelhenry3234 Yeah Dionysus is never portrayed as a good being. He's better than Zeus, but that's not saying much as Zeus is the worst of the gods who let power go to his head. Absolute power corrupts absolutely is a fitting description of Zeus in general.
@@michaelhenry3234 Kronos isn't seen a good guy, the fact murdered his father for no reason other than power, and ate his children. [Zeus was given a pass on the father killing because it was also to free his siblings not just power]
@@geraldgrenier8132 It depends upon the version of the myth. In some, Kronos is a primordial time god (Chronos) and in others he's the tyrannical ruler Zeus overthrows. In older myths, his reign was called "the Golden Age" because bad shit didn't exist yet (Pandora's box had yet to be opened) and each age got progressively worse and worse. So in that myth, Zeus definitely fucked shit up.
My mythology professor compared Hades, to the introvert that preferred to stay at home and watch Netflix than party. Not evil. Yeah there is the Kidnapping of Persephone but in those days bride kidnapping was common and shouldn't be used as a blow against him. It's shitty but not evil by mythology standards. Basically the Osiris (lord of the underworld in Egyptian myth.) of Greece.
Plus in some versions he did ask for Zeus's permission first to take Persephone as his wife and since he was her father, well he technically decide who her husband was. Of course grabbing her out of the blue was a little abrupt but he didn't really do anything wrong when you consider how Zeus gave his ok.
I also read a version where Eros shot him with an arrow as he got out of the Underworld. So in that case, Eros was just being a dick.
He shows up in the Dresden Files' "Skin Trade" like that as well. The story there is that she went with him willingly, and Hecate leading Demeter repeatedly around the world was so they could have a quiet honeymoon.
Adron Duell, which is a thing Eros just does. XD I love that the Greek god of lust is basically just an asshole that likes causing trouble.
Yeah, and as unequivocally wrong as kidnapping is, he was really courteous with her when they got to the underworld. Apologizing to her explaining that he had no choice due to her mother's adamant opposition against him wooing her. Then he stayed generally polite and hospitable so much that Persephone began liking him in return. Obviously there are many versions of this story but judging from his description of character I'd say it is canon; that is, a very popular version even in the ancient times.
Minor point: Zeus actually only ruled over the sky; his dominion over humans is... kind of an expectable outcome of that, but he holds no power over the earth itself. Hades' dominion, on the other hand, is what Ancient Greeks called "chthonic" - "of the soil." To the Ancient Greeks, the earth itself had, so to speak, "deep roots" and was dark and mysterious.
It is of quite a bit of import that Hades, who was later renamed "Pluto" (Πλούτων), was often conflated with Plutos (Πλούτος), as his domain was the earth (as I mentioned), and the riches of minerals, gems and precious metals are found underground. The fact that their names were similar was also something the Greeks themselves thought was significant (a similar conflation did frequently occur between the gods Cronos (Κρόνος) and Chronos (Χρόνος)).
You are not the only one who hates the Percy Jackson movie. Everyone from the fandom hates it. Hell, everyone who's seen it hates it.
It is awful. There's literally no reason for it to be so bad except that the people who worked on it just didn't care about the story. If they'd done it well, they could've made a fantastic movie series, but nah, fuck that, no one cares about bringing life to THIS well-beloved story.
+TheSmashMaster9000 Getting a sequel doesn't mean much. Cool looking fantasy movie seen by many including fans who were hoping for a good adaptation. What's far more telling is that it still hasn't gotten any further than that, in an age where those kind of adaptations are basically forced out they were so bad they couldn't do a third.
I sadly agree, loved the books but couldn't get over how bad an adaptation it is despite the first being "enjoyable enough" if you forget there are books. I did feel LL fit an older PJ really well despite having blue as opposed to sea green eyes. Do you agree? I'm a bit bias to the actor I suppose
Even the author of the books hate the movies.
Not everyone I've met people who like it
As a Percy Jackson fan, my poor heart crumples at the mention of the movies. There was many things wrong with it, but hades was one. Yes, he was an asshole, but all of the gods were portrayed as assholes. Point is, he was not an antagonist. Why must he be portrayed as raging Satan? In fact, the author did a good job in separating his hades to the western held visual of his character. The movies unfortunately messed this up and put a bad rap on the pjo series.
the percy jackson book series hades is not a villain. he's definitely not our protagonist's friend but he's not trying to take over olympus. and he cares about his children, which, exist. also persephone ain't trying to get away from him and even tricks percy, thalia, and nico into making hades a new cool weapon.
The books definitely characterized him better than the film did.
Deftly not Satan influenced, but has issues with grudges.
That hades is probably the most accurate to the original mythology that we have seen in pop culture (if pjo counts as pop culture).
That moment when you realize that Hades makes a better dad than Poseidon. Which is weird because Percy is the main character so we have a first hand experience in how Poseidon is as a father, and he is not bad, he's just.......not there.
To be fair Hades would make a better dad, he lets you visit/live in the underworld, and train in the palace. Which is a huge step up, as I am sure none of the other gods would like or ever tolerate their demigod children being living with them for more than a year.
+Pajamas and PeanutButter: The Dresden Files deals with Hades pretty fairly too
I really like that Hades has a dog called "Spot" (Cerberus).
I just want one movie that has Hades as the good guy. He's weird and emo but he's not bad.
Dresden Files, the most recent book (Skin Game).
proudwonk Omg! Someone else who remembers Class of the Titans! I used to watch that on and off back in high school lol
Rachel Hollars
Percy Jackson, the book.
Kamigami no
asobi?
Rachel Hollars Hades is more Goth than emo in my opinion, but yeah, you're right. He was a good plan person, albeit creepy, emotionally cold and even sadistic when he punished wicked souls.
In an earlier version, Persephone went into the Underworld herself. She was just skipping around in a field and found an entrance to Hades' palace then just refused to leave. Usually Hades just sit back and let Persephone handle all the punishment assignments and stuff, maybe goes off and build a train set idk
Ruelux Prince yea wasn't her name back then Kore or something like that. I like that version. She's all like "wow this place is awesome I want to stay".
Kore was the name Demeter gave her, but either Persephone chose her own name later, or Zeus gave it to her out of spite after begging her to leave the Underworld so Demeter would let the plants grow again and she refused. “Persephone” either means disobedience or destroyer. (“Kore” means “child/flower.”) And it is true that Persephone devises the punishments in the Underworld, and that the original story had a a Persephone with way more autonomy who went down on her own and wouldn’t come up and probably ate the pomegranate on purpose.
There are stories where she shows away in Hades’ chariot, to ones where she enters the Underworld through a portal in a cave when she hears wails from the dead and meets Hades afterwards.
Also, in a legend one of the poets wrote of Hercules, Persephone was the one Hercules deeply feared in the Underworld. Hades was less terrifying to him. And she’s referred to as “Dread Persephone.”
@@XxnamcoxcapcomxX Kore is correct if your wondering....although this is a little used Name spoken today.....
the wonderful thing about stories, is they can and are retold in different ways. Neo-pagans have retold the story to reflect just that story, that Persephone willingly went with Hades, the kidnapping was just a cover story in the end. She falls in love with Hades, and willingly eats the Seeds of Death, to ensure they can never be truly parted.....
Ruelux Prince I’m really sorry but this is entirely made up.
“ A disclaimer, first of all: any post that says THIS IS THE ORIGINAL MYTH is going to be wank, because we don’t know what the original myth was - we only have the first written sources, but without a time machine there’s just no way of finding out how the myth developed in an oral tradition. So already, we can debunk about 80% of that post. Groovy.
The first source we have for Persephone being carried away is in Hesiod’s Theogony, written in the 8th or 7th century BC. We also have the Homeric Hymn to Demeter, written in the 7th or 6th century BC, which is explicitly about her being taken away by Hades.
Hesiod is one of the oldest Greek sources that we have, roughly contemporaneous with Homer. We don’t have any earlier sources than this which say ‘hey, Persephone went to Hades because she thought it would be cool’. A lot of people have theorised that this could have been an original, or at least an earlier tradition, but it’s about 60% wishful thinking, 20% misinterpreting evidence (i.e. assuming that Persephone and Demeter used to be aspects of a great mother goddess, which they weren’t) and about 20% conjecture based on actual rational thought (i.e. the fact that the oldest written source we have is about an abduction doesn’t mean that it is the original source; there could be older non-extant written sources or just oral tales which pre-dated writing). It’s not fact.
It’s true that Homer himself never explicitly says that Persephone was abducted - he just describes her as Hades’ wife - but he also doesn’t say that she wasn’t abducted; it could well be that the myth of her abduction was so well known that he had no need to recount it.
It is true that Persephone’s name was Kore, which means ‘maiden’; however, this could be an epithet because she was unmarried. It’s also theorised that it was a euphemism of sorts for when people didn’t want to name Persephone outright; again, this is a theory. Lots of gods had epithets - basically cooler names which underlined some of their core attributes, e.g. Apollo = Loxias, which highlights Apollo’s powers of prophecy. Unlike the post claims, the name ‘Persephone’ does not definitively mean death / destroyer; the etymology is unknown. The ‘death / destroyer’ theory is just one of many, and others are based around ideas of harvest and grain.
The reason Zeus got involved wasn’t just because he was tasked with sorting out justice - it was because he had told Hades ‘hey, you want a wife? Cool! Abduct my daughter, Persephone. Her mum totally won’t mind,’ and then when Persephone’s mother did mind, Zeus was like ‘I fucked up real bad, I should sort this shit out.’ In Ancient Greece, women didn’t have to consent in the same way as we do now. Abduction marriages were actually illegal (or at least very very naughty) but the bride’s consent basically took the form of her father saying ‘you’ll marry this dude, right? Yeah, cool. She’ll marry you, dude.’ Here, Zeus gives Persephone’s consent to Hades by telling Hades that he can marry her - this is why technically she wasn’t exactly abducted, because the necessary consent - her father’s - was given. HOWEVER, let’s not get into Greek law here. She was abducted by our standards.
It is also true that Persephone became a very feared goddess and basically had a great time in the Underworld. She wasn’t exactly more terrible than Hades, though; there are certain myths (e.g. Sisyphus and Orpheus) where she’s the one who says ‘Hades, babe, shall we give this guy a chance to make his way out of the Underworld alive?’ HOWEVER, she did usually do this with the implementation of specific terms, meaning that she had a level of control in proceedings which a lot of other wife goddesses didn’t have over their respective spouses’ spheres. Most mythological canons also give her and Hades a very healthy and monogamous relationship (with the exception of Orphism, which is a bit more iffy on that front) so, disregarding the abduction part of her myth, their marriage was really relatively healthy, even by modern standards. Also, Persephone did not ‘lay the smack down on sinners’, as quoted in the original post - the whole idea of sinners is basically a Christian concept. The Underworld was not Hell. It wasn’t a place for bad people. It was just where the dead went. Tartarus was the place where the really bad guys went to be tortured and shit, and is more indicative of Christian notions of Hell. People weren’t punished in the Underworld. They just went there.
I love the idea of Persephone as a consenting wife of Hades. I am a fan of modern reinterpretations in which she chooses to eat the pomegranate seeds willingly, or where she falls in love with Hades and goes to the Underworld of her own accord. However, these are modern interpretations, based on modern gender politics and ideas of reclamation and representation. I will forever fight for people’s right to reinterpret myths however they like, but this whole idea of the ‘original myth’ of Persephone being devoid of any misogynistic undertones really needs to die.
I think it also speaks to a worrying argument that in order to empower Persephone, some people need to remove her trauma. Why can’t Persephone be a terrible dread queen of the Underworld and a survivor? Why should her experiences need to be erased in order to make her into a strong woman? If you ask me, she’s already stronger than Dwayne ‘The Rock’ Johnson. I don’t think that the modern need to reframe Persephone as architect of her own descent into the Underworld is necessarily as progressive as others think it is. I think it sends the message that a strong woman always has agency, and I actually think that a better message to send would be that it’s totally possible to lose your agency and still retain your strength, because you define yourself through your own actions, not what is done to you.
tl;dr any post that makes a broad sweeping claim like ‘hey this greek myth was originally like this and u r all wrong’ without any sources is what my tutor would call ‘specious’ and what I call ‘bollocks’.”
Courtesy of teashoesandhair on tumblr.
Wasn't the Percy Jackson series set up as this is a summer adventure so Persephone was NOT present and Hades was extremely against getting more souls in his kingdom and pointed out that Percy was an idiot? .......I'm so glad I didn't watch the movie.
If you want a very good(and funny!) review/explanation why it is so bad/ putting words to things that nagged you but you couldn't quite put into words : go watch The Dom 's book to movie adaptation critique! It is amazing!! You don't have to watch the movie even :)
@Mullerornis To be fair, in Percy Jackson the gods adapt themselves to wherever "the West" is, and considering that America counted as "the West" they'd probably fall in line with our ideas of summer and winter.
My question is: why is Hades the bad guy but not Poseidon?
I mean, he's always been the Lonley God, the resentful one. Odysseus stabbed his one-eyed son, in his eye and he cursed him to wander the seas for 40 years.
And don't get me started on Hera ... Oh, she's a real villain?
Have you ever tricked your daughter in law to give you son a poisoned cloack, after attempting at his life multiple time, since he was a baby, just to get a revenge on your husband? Well she did!
Because to the Greeks Hades was a scary guy who made sure everybody stayed dead and they did not like him at all for it. Persephone was more prominent in mystery cults because she didn't spend all her time in there. Also they kinda sided with Hera on her vengeful ways because as the goddess of marriage it was in her nature and they didn't hold it against her, and she was his wife so of course she would be a nag so you just have to bear it. They also had no problem with Zeus's infidelities because he was cool and masculine, plus women enjoyed sex better than men so that somehow made it commendable. Odysseus showed hubris when he told Polyphemus his true name and to the Greeks Hubris is worse than murder so he had it coming.
Poseidon is one of the least sympathetic gods I have studied. Satan has infinitely more redeeming qualities than Poseidon does.
@@donjezza10 Naturally, the God of the Sea would be pretty cruel. A lot of Greeks died sailing the sea, it was very dangerous and people feared it. The gods were a way for ancient people to understand and explain nature.
If I remember correctly there was an animated tv show about the odyssee where Poseidon was the villain.
Hell, forget all of them, what about Typhon? He was more or less Greek Mythology's Big Bad! What, Hades is the big scary guy? HA! Typhon scared Hades shitless! No joke, when Typhon headed to Olympus to challenge Zeus, not only did all the Olympians except Zeus and Athena flee the scene, but Hades was said to have been cowering in the Underworld, not wanting to face the beast's wrath.
And that was a smart decision, since Typhon was a metropolis-sized multiheaded multilimbed eldritch abomination kaiju spawned from the primordial embodiment of the Earth mating with the Greek version of Hell. Not even joking about that. And that isn't even mentioning all of _Typhon's_ kids--he married a sexy snake woman named Echidna and they had at least ten children who were all monsters; Cerberus? Typhon and Echidna's puppy! The Chimera? The Sphinx? Both Typhon and Echidna's kids! The Nemean Lion? The Lernean Hydra? The Eagle that ate Prometheus' liver? Typhon and Echidna's! In some versions the many-headed sea monster Scylla was also their child, though others portray her as Echidna's sister instead.
Basically, Typhon deserves more appreciation as the badass villain he is.
The Percy Jackson movies are fucking infuriating. I mean, they fail as movies for one, but as a fan of the book and someone with a passing knowledge of Greek mythology, it makes me furious. The book goes out of the way to differentiate the underworld and hell, giving you a cliffnotes version on the general idea of the Greek afterlife. In the movie, it's just hell, he's just satan, it's fucking awful.
He's not even a fun, interesting, or memorable Satan.
He's not even the villain in the book, just one of Framed gods
Remember what they did to the hellhounds? They are supposed to be giant mastiffs that are the size of rhinos or tanks not stupid wierd rotting rats
Oddly, one thing that bugged me about the movie (I just watched half of the first one and stopped there) was that a pagan girl I was dating had never read the books but had bought all the movies that were then out. Being pagan myself, I thought "hey, they must be a good representation of Greek myth and the books, awesome!" because it gets really annoying how christian-ized everything is in pop culture, even pagan mythologies. As I recall, I broke up with her not long after watching half of that first movie. I mean, that wasn't the reason, but it also was a little because she was a total faker.
It's kind of funny the author of the books HATES the movies.
Even His abduction was less problematic back in the day; He went to Persephone's father and asked for Her hand in marriage, which, back in the day did not involve the mother or bride... sigh where is a wall to beat my head against? But Haides is one of the most trustworthy of the Gods.
He actually went to Zeus for ask for her hand in marriage...good try though
Zeus is Persephone's father.
Let's be honest, Hades cares about his world. Compared to the other gods...
Some Crazed Nerd Zeus is Persephone's father.
a hellenic pagan That and there are some versions where Zeus gives him the idea of kidnapping Persephone because of the fact Demeter would never allow her daughter to marry, much less marry the lord of the dead. All I can say is if you see how Zeus is with women in the actual mythology, you can see why he would suggest such to Hades.
I really, really, really wish there would some kind of movie, video game, book, and comic that actually depicted Hades as the dignified, terrible, and ultimately stern character that he actually was instead of a Satan epxy.
Hades is more than just the god of the death, he also was associated with wealth and when he was paired with his wife Persephone, fertility, fortune, and hospitality. To use TV Tropes, he's less Darkness is Evil but more Dark is Not Evil and maybe even Sacred Darkness. Hades did not play favorites; when you died you were treated accordingly to your behavior in life, and he made sure that the dead stayed dead while permitting the living to commune with their loved ones that have passed on if he was given the proper respect he demanded. He was less like Lucifer in the Bible and more like Mandos in the Silmarillion, a passive but ultimately dependable figure that ensured that the world ran smoothly, ultimately to humanity's benefit. As much as death scares us, the dead coming back again is even worse, plus everyone likes gold and gemstones.
That all sounds way more interesting than what we're getting now. There are so few positive, or at least not-evil figures associated with things like death and darkness in general.
There is. Hades shows up in Jim Butcher's last Harry Dresden novel, "Skin Games", as the keeper of a vault in the Underworld. He's calm, terrible, but not at all evil; in fact, he has a strong sense of duty. Butcher seems to be expressing the very same frustration as you, because during their conversation, Harry makes a point that in the original myths, Hades just shuts up, does his job, and doesn't mess around with humans like his two brothers. Hades tells Harry that his dog's name, Cerberus, comes from the Greek word for "spotted". "You named your dog 'Spot'?"
Yeeeeees. I adored that whole bit. Not to mention the mordite crown. That was super badass.
I already loved the series, but when they depicted my favourite greek god accurately? perfection. In the end he identifies with harry since he's just a man who wants to be left alone with his dog and is grossly misunderstood by modern pop culture.
Hades is less Satan-like and more gothic accountant. I want to see more of that in pop culture.
read the Percy Jackson books, all gods are very accurately depicted, personality-wise, with Hades being one of the most reasonable. Sure, he had a tiny bit of godly impatience, but he was actualy against unnecessary violence and death, prefering to let things progress naturaly up above. He had a small grudge against his two brothers, but this grudge was more like real-life family grudges, and he was also carying for his demigod children and mortal wife. They also depict Thanatos on later novels, since few people know Hades is the god of the dead, Thanatos is the god of DEATH, the greek grim reaper.
As a mythology buff who especially loves Greek mythology, Hades is kind of my favorite. And I tend to get pretty upset about Satany-Villain!Hades because Hades is honestly a much cooler dude than that and STOP MAKING HIM THE BAD GUY! But I do love James Woods portrayal of him in the Disney movie because charismatic villains with a sense of humor are a weakness of mine. (I was a kid when the movie came out, but greek mythology has been a life-long love of mine, so my reaction was basically "I don't know why you're here, but please don't go"). The Percy Jackson movie version was doubly insulting because of the usual Satany-Villain issues and also that's not how he is in the books! Hades in the Percy Jackson books is stern but fair, and does his job well despite feeling a little bitter about his lot. The Percy Jackson books overall are very loyal to the original mythology and are a fun update to the ancient stories that I cannot recommend highly enough. (Do not watch the movies. In fact, pretend you don't know the movies exist)
Raye J I blame the Christians
I like the Stern But Fair!Hades. Disney's Hercules made me like him, later research made me adore him. Context is very important to understanding a character in any scenario, from the Bible, to Greek Mythos, to the "Macaroni" line in Yankee Doodle Dandy. He kidnapped Persephone not because he's the Devil or something, but because that's how it was done at the time. There's also nothing that says she didn't like it there. From what I understand, she was truly queen and goddess of curses, as in cussing someone out/"I hope something bad happens to you". Honestly, when I recently looked her up, she fit the Satanic archetype better than her fair, loyal, loving husband did.
Not sure if you've seen/heard it, but Anais Mitchell's folk opera Hadestown has a really interesting interpretation of Hades.
Hadestown takes the Orpheus & Eurydice story and transposes it into the Great Depression sort of? In the world of the opera, there's great poverty which can seemingly only be escaped by venturing to Hadestown, an underground city which promises stability for its inhabitants by giving them work - the work of building the city itself. Eurydice, rather than dying by accident, is convinced by Hades to leave her poor poet boyfriend and go with him to live in relative prosperity.
Hades in the opera is a smooth businessman who exemplifies capitalism at its greediest. He leads his workers in a brilliantly repetitive song about how 'the enemy is poverty, and the wall keeps out the enemy, and we build the wall to keep us free' that gets across the disturbing implications of isolationist rhetoric in a form that sounds reminiscent in form of the sort of children's rhyme that builds upon itself with each verse.
His desire above all is to keep his empire strong, and he believes he's doing the right thing for people by giving them work. However, in the end his people are tools for him: as Orpheus sings of him, 'the heart of a king loves everything like a hammer loves a nail'. He's resisted by Orpheus, starving poet who nearly incites a rebellion in his quest to get Eurydice back from Hadestown, and somewhat by Persephone, who's also given an interesting treatment.
In Hadestown Persephone takes advantage of her half-year spent aboveground by collecting bits of the surface world, which she sells for the other half of the year in basically a nature-themed speakeasy. She sells wind in a jar, rain on tap, spring flowers, autumn leaves, 'moonshine' and her version of a peep show, a hidden crack in the wall of the town that allows a glimpse of the sky. She very much has agency in the story and plays a big part in assisting Orpheus' rebellion, but also seems to really love Hades in her way.
Anyway, I've gone on long enough, but suffice it to say that Hadestown is a really interesting piece of theatre and well worth a listen. I recommend Hades' song 'Why We Build the Wall,' which is really chilling to listen to lately. And it's definitely a departure from the usual Hades.
I love Hadestown! The concept album is one of my favorite folk albums, and the musical is up there in my top 5 musicals list
Miranda I LOVE HADESTOWN I LIKE YOU.
Not to mention Patrick Page is a sexy mofo with a voice that can rattle your bones
the day that i hit the notes of eurydice’s harmony in “why we build the wall” was the best day of my life.
and then i couldn’t sing it again for about a month. don’t push your vocal cords too hard, kids.
I saw it on Broadway a few days ago and HOLY SHIT IS IT GOOD!!!!!!!!! I loved every moment of it, and was impressed with Hades' portrayal to no end.
There's also Hermes, who's essentially a Cab Calloway narrator type; the Fates, who constantly sing in three-part harmonies; and a 5-person Greek chorus who all have the same movements.
I could go on and on about how amazing the show is, tbh.
"I GIVE YOU THIS DIAAMOOOOOND! BEHOLD ITS SIIIIIIZE." is a pretty good pickup line, to be fair.
What gets on my last nerves, is the fact that Hades is always a bad guy! He's not, the only bad things he did was kidnap Persephone and to occasionally be an obstacle for a hero. For a Greek god, he's got a pretty good track record. He just has the job of being Lord of the Dead.
I'd love to see a version of Hades who is basically an accountant of sorts.
Just a nerd with glasses trying to keep Hades up to date. Negotiating if people really deserve to go to the elysian fields or not.
It's kind of ironic as hades is actualy the god who was not only the most reasonable, but the one with the shortest list of "fuck ups" compared to, well... his two brotehrs Zeus and Poseidon! Both were FAMOUS for their hissy fits causing the storms, earthquakes, hurricanes and tidal waves, but had Hades ever caused, dunno, a zombie apocalypse? Not to mention, when becoming the Roman god Pluto, Hades kinda gained an "Upgrade", becoming the god of not only the dead, but EVERYTHING below the earth, which made him god of the riches. Hence the term "plutocracy", which is a society controlled by the *wealthy* minority. And yet, he is the villain...the guy who literaly got the worst third of the world and now make sure the dead are in order. Not to mention his realm stands for hell, purgatory AND heaven. Hades literaly owns Heaven.
"Had Hades ever caused, dunno, a zombie apocalypse"
Now take this with a grain of salt but I read that, according to an unfinished part of the Gigantomachy, yes, once, but it was for a purely justified reason.
Basically, it went that he and Persephone arrived to assist their fellow Gods in the battle in matching chariots accompanied by an army of the undead. And honestly, if that ain't relationship goals, I dunno what is.
Hades was awesome in the Dresden Files. He's super polite to Harry (who just barged uninvited in his vault) and takes to playfully point out that his dog Cerberus' name, translated in English, is Spot. Harry loves it.
He's rather great in Lore Olympus too. And a main character.
@@TheLostArchangel666 I love Hades in Lore Olympus. He's such a dork.
@@TheLostArchangel666 n o.
Now that you have done Hades, I need the Persephone episode
Would love to see Lindsay do a part 2 for this, would just love to see her talk about Hades in Descendants 3; Lore Olympus and most inportantly Patrick Page's portrayal of Hades in Hadestown the musical, looking at both the original and broadway production.
As someone who adores the Percy Jackson books, the movies infuriated me. They took out important (at least to me) points from the books (ANNABETH IS A BLONDE) and added things that didn't even happen in the books (I love the Hydra but that didn't happen). They also left out a tiny little moment like idk PERCY FIGHTING ARES
Chatnoir 77888 I didn't even know that, but that makes it even worse
Miranda Lo I know right? Thats what you focus on? not the fact that they spit on the cleverly hidden world Rick crafted? THEY LEFT A HUGE PETRIFIED HYDRA IN A TOURIST LOCATION THAT HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ATTEND. THE REVIVED KRONOS IN MOVIE 2 AND HAD HIM EAT LUKE!
Cuddlekitten 999 And last I checked Percy didn't live at camp
Annabeth being blonde was a bit character point, as she's annoyed by the stereotype of the dumb blonde given she the leader of her siblings, the children of the wisdom goddess. and given even if the actress you prefer to play the role might be a natural brunette, making her blonde in costume is about the most basic of the Hollywood bag of tricks, that it becomes a good example of just no caring. After all a lot of changes can be layed at the alter of adapting the story to a different medium, that not even keeping the easy stuff...?
^hey, assholes, Annabeth being blonde is a big part of her character. And so are her eyes.
Checking in from 2020 after playing about 100 hours of hades past month.
Let's add distant detached dad boss to the list.
We don't talk about the Percy Jackson films
raven wolf The *Peter Johnson movies*
raven wolf This needs to be rebooted into a animated tv series.
@@willlyon7129
The first book is actually a touring musical rn and it's really good! You should give it a listen! (but yeah a tv show would be nice)
yes we do and good one solstice chase
Jim Butcher's book Skin Game had a pretty nice Hades cameo wherein he wasn't some evil overlord, but instead a pretty bored custodian of dead souls who had serious OCD when it came to decorating his vault where he stores all manner or priceless stuff. Jim also made the whole Persephone thing a willing pairing and also how the whole pomegranate seed thing was a "political fiction" that Zeus ran with. It was honestly my favorite interpretation of Hades to date. He also revealed how the word cerberus basically means spot, so Hades has a dog named Spot. I laughed way harder at that then I should have. Not sure how true that is, but ever since I read it I'm choosing to believe it is so.
The Hercules animated series were my favorite because of him. The episode where he tried taking over from the Fates' and had to learn to knit the Threads of Fate was friggin' hilarious - also, educational animation for kids, who knew?
episode name please?
Yeah, I'd like to know too.
I know this isn't a movie or TV show, but Kid Icarus has a very fun interpretation of Hades. He is still the villain, but the interactions he has with Pit and Palutena are amazing.
There's no explanation in Disney's Hercules the Animated Series about how Hades knew about Hercules still being alive BUT the end of the series does feature some Lethe water splashing, which I think accounts for the continuity issues (Lethe water causes forgetfulness, so it would explain Hades and Hercules not remembering each other)
Revisiting this now that the Supergiant Hades - with a fairly mythology-accurate version - is burning up the interwebs is fun.
Its funny that nowadays the "Sexy Hades" thing has become more popular especially with Lore Olympus.
God damn it
"What did you ever see in him?"
"Well, did you see his tongue?" ah! hahaha! ha!
I almost choked at that lmao
Hades did nothing wrong.
Sure, he messed up Theseus and Pirithous that one time but like they deserved it.
Oh, goodness, didn't they!
The best part would be when Heracles goes into the underworld and finds them. He frees Theseus but when he tries to do the same for Pirithous the Underworld itself roars angrily, forcing him to leave the dude behind. Hades held a _personal_ grudge against him, and for good reason...
I mean they did tried to kidnap his wife and before that they kidnapped an infant Helen (yeah the one from the Troyan War)
@@admin.slayerenryu I mean, Hades himself kidnapped his wife...
@@adrianj6795 I mean considerating the standarts of the time and his f*cked up family tree, Hades was like one of the few good apples. Also I would love to see her do a video on Lore Olympus.
Now that I've rewatched both this video and the Starscream episode, I think Chez should do an episode on another mythological god largely codified in pop culture by one work's interpretation: Loki.
Oh yeah, the greatest and unforgettable Loki in Son of Mask!
(oh, and "chez" is not a name, it's French preposition often used in pub names, "chez Lindsay" meaning something like "at Lindsay's house" or "at Lindsay's place")
Loki was on the vote a couple times, both times got outvoted!
Maybe pop him on there again soon? :) I'd also love to see an episode on the biblical Satan, or even someone like Hitler or Stalin. (Who have all, excluding Stalin, been outvoted :P ) I love these videos, and it's evident how much time and effort you put into them. :)
Chez Lindsay if you do Loki, don't forget to include The Mask's version. it's be interesting to see that related to other incarnations.
Oh jeez, The Mask. That would include the sequel, which is an unholy trainwreck. Oh Alan Cumming, you and your dodgy movie choices.
Hades: The result of old school Google translate.
I like Dresden File's Hades: In that universe, He and Persephone made up the kidnapping story because Demeter didn't approve of them getting married. He is also helpful and suave
It’s a shame this was only covered visual media and also came out a few years ago, because Hadestown has an interesting lense on the character. The broadway musical is new but the concept album is about a decade old now. Hades as Great Depression industrialist is an unexpected pairing that just works.
Actually, Zeus' geographic portfolio was mostly limited to the sky and heavens. Poseidon ruled both the sea and earth, as attested by Homer in the Illiad, when Poseidon is referred to by the title "Earthshaker", and throws a small tantrum that the invading Achaeans (Homer's name for the Greeks invading Troy*) are building a defensive stone wall outside Troy without performing the proper rituals to honour Poseidon. Zeus orders Poseidon to leave the wall be for now, because he wants the Greeks to win the war against Troy, but tells him he will be allowed to destroy the wall with an earthquake once the Greeks have won and returned home.
It's clear from the text that the gods mostly share dominion of the earth, insofar as the earth is the home of humans, but Poseidon specifically holds sway over the geological forces that shape its surface, while Hades rules everything below that (because the ancient Greeks didn't understand how earthquakes worked).
*Or Danaans, or Argives, or Hellenes... Homer had a lot of names for the Greeks, for some reason.
I need Hades from the Supergiant game added to this video asap.... Lindsay really knows her stuff... she describes that version of Hades pitch perfectly despite it being so unfamiliar to me from all the fanon versions I've grown up knowing.... Except the part where she referred to Dionysus as Bacchus. I wouldn't name my dog Bacchus.
Wow! Percy Jackson had a fan movie? haha never knew! god i wish they had an actual movie that stayed to canon. oh well haha, *sobbing*
You should check out "The Lightning Thief: The Musical." It sticks much closer to the actual story, right up to the portrayal of Hades!
Oh, it's from 2017. And here I was, waiting for the game character analysis and anxiously looking at the timer.
Guess it's time for a 2020/2021 version of this video?
My favorite depiction of Hades is in Anais Mitchell’s Hadestown album!
Another interesting aspect of Hades's portrayal in pop culture is the name "Pluto" which many people think was the name that Hades was given when he was adopted by Rome, which actually isn't the case. Hades's Roman name is actually Dis, not Pluto. Pluto comes from Pluton, an epithet of Hades which refers to his title as the giver of wealth and fortune as the holder of all the precious metals and gems in the world, and this is the name that was often used to refer to Hades because, as the god of the dead and with invoking the name often seen as invoking the god's power, he wasn't necessarily a god that you wanted around you, sort of seen as sort of like inviting the Devil to our door so he was often referred to in the more positive aspects like Pluton to avoid this, though the name Hades is often used in things like curses.
Hades and the other Greek gods also weren't just adopted by the Romans, it's more like they got rolled into the already-existing Italic gods and goddesses and became reinterpreted by the Roman with many gods and goddesses taking on much different personalities and different qualities. Hades, for instance, is explicitly stated in Greek myth to be infertile and unable to sire children because he is the god of the dead, meaning he is essentially dead, too, but he became fertile when he was rolled into the Italic gods, becoming a father figure just like his Zeus and other male gods, referred as Dis Pater or "Father Dis" in Latin.
Also, the Kraken doesn't come from Greek mythology, it's actually from Norse mythology. Yes, I know, I'm a huge mythology nerd. :P
Jacob Marion damn, dude! how do you know so much? and where can i learn more? this is so in depth and fascinating
bea Right? This guy needs his on RUclips series to teach us.
didnt know the Kraken was norse shoulda figured tho they were huge seafarers and explorers
You give me so much life Lindsay and I'm always fascinated with your analysis and closer look at characters, themes, movies etc.
This is still my favorite Loose Canon. I'm a mythology buff :)
Hmmm, It'd be interesting to see a Loose canon on, well, Satan.
I wish this had been made recently enough to include Lore Olympus.
Yeah. That and Hadestown the Musical
I never get tired of Aphrodite's theme song in that Hercules show. Used to sing it all the time.
If this video was made today I really hope that Lindsay would break down the Lore Olympus interpretation of Hades.
Like it’s not too big of an outlier but it’s different enough to make some take pause.
First off that tongue comment is hilarious. Second, I also feel like that Hades is also more Satan related because of Dante's The Divine Comedy. Since hades pretty much has Greek heaven(eslyium), wandering purgatory(eslyian fields) and then super punishy-non flamey hell (Tartarus) under his dominion,(guess which are associated with Satan and punishment), Dante's paradise, purgatory, and the inferno aka punishment hell, are Christian related, I believe that the book reinforced into any Greek hades myth then translated into "oh no Hades/Satan he has punishment place and wandering". The translation for sure causes confusion, I think that any reading of hades would have a connotation of Satan. If this makes sense, please say yes cause I have no idea what the hell I wrote above.
yes
Wish this would have been made recently enough to include ’Hadestown’ the musical because that’s one of my favourite depictions of Hades
I cringed my teeth when you talked about Percy Jackson movie Hedes. I hate that adaptation. I loved the books, but that thing.... oh, and the clash of the titans is so wrongly made 😣
Welcome to Lindsay!
Hades is not so bad after all, glad to see this video back up, I couldn't find it a few days ago even though I knew it existed.
Highly recommend Lore Olympus, so freaking good
Wait? In the disney show Hades had a crush on Aphrodite? What.... Well i don't blame him but still he doesnt strike me as someone who would get crushes
I don't even think mythos Hades gets sexually attracted to anyone. Most likely only Persephone, as she is his wife obviously...do they even have any children?
Macaria, daughter of Hades who turned into a goddess (named in the Suda)
Hmm i don't think they had kids? I mean, i could be wrong but still
They had three. I don't remember their names though.
Hmmm...interesting. It looks like they are small characters in Greek mythology because they don't come up when I search, "Hades", or "Hades sexual history" they only come up when I search "Hades and Minthe" and "Hades and Leuke." Hmm...the more you know.
Hades is still the least worst. Least worst, is the key word here.
Not a visual representation, but have you listened to Hadestown by Anais Mitchell? It's a folk opera (not sung operatic at all) about Hades, Persephone, Orpheus, and Eurydice. It's really cool. In that, Hades isn't trying to take over Olympus or really do anything except run his underworld when Orpheus kind of gets in his way trying to take Eurydice back. I saw the version live, but if you listen to the CD in order, it's easy to follow.
Im surpised you didn't add in the hades that had showed up in Once Upon a time. That one. oh. its not james woods. But lord dos it try and fail
Themistressinblue I'm not sure that that version existed when this video was made.
i do not know when this video was originaly made/aired
Late 2015, early 2016...Ish... i can't check, the original uploads gone.
God that was so bad. None of the fast-talking used car salesman demeanor of James Woods Hades that made that Hades likable, but still trying to skirt off the coattails of that much better interpretation.
Man I got so pissed that they made him a villain but redeem Ursula and the goddamn EVIL Queen like wtf stop going the easy route and making him the villain
I really wish you could've done this video at least a couple of years later, the interpretation of Hades from, well, Hades by Supergiant Games is pretty damn great. There's a lot of reverence for the classical myths, and Zagreus' love/hate relationship with his grumpy dad is incredible.
Also, Kid Icarus Uprising's Hades actually rivals the James Woods version in terms of camp and fun.
15:16
"שאול" is pronounced she-ohl, or she'ol (not as throaty as it sounds).
"Άͅδης" is pronounced "Ehh-dhees" ("Hades" if you're really drunk or really Greek).
Being greek "Άδης" is most commonly pronounced as "Ah-dhees"
I'm really drunk
Not to mention, she said "Dim-it-er"... lol
@@wonderlandian8465 Keep in mind, Greek has changed a lot over the millennia.
@@wonderlandian8465 It would make more sense for it to be pronounced that way since the first letter is an alpha and not an eta. Wouldn't the rough breather mean we still pronounce the "H" though?
6:40 I love how that's the moment she recognises him
She's like "who's this man come riding out of the underworld on a spiky black chariot?"
And then he lifts his visor and he looks like a 16-year old boy and she's like HADES WHAT
Not gonna lie... I thought that was Jim Carrey, for a second.
Yeah, even though I liked the 90s Disney Hades I was always a bit irritated how they made him kind of the campy 'friend' and completely left out Persephone. (I also get irritated when most things make their Hades/Persephone relationship an unhealthy one, but really they seemed to have one of the healthiest relationships in the mythology. Even figuring in the kidnapping.)
Good video, though! I had forgotten how... super 90s the 90s were. Also, the volume on the video seemed a little low, but perhaps that was just me.
I prefer a more nuanced depiction of Hades because death is an inevitable part of life. Death shouldn't always be synonymous with evil.
Also, in regards to the Disney Hercules version of Hades, I'll admit his "personality" was really interesting, but I wish they didn't "Satanify" him. The entire premise of the DIsney Hercules plot was weak and I recall didn't sell well, and maybe the Satanified Hades partially contributed to that. He could have been written as someone who indirectly "helps" Hercules on his journey by holding something in his possession that the hero needs as a nod to the original mythology. The whole "washed up salesman" personality and James Woods voice could still work with that. Although I figure Disney would never consider that since they prefer simplistic conflicts with a long face, high cheek bones, and dark color scheme, rather than a singular or series of obstacles a character faces as the main conflict of a story.
Lindsay,
I really love your videos. I wanted to know if you have heard much about Barbie movies? They started coming out in the mid-90s and they're still being released on direct to video. Characteristics include delightfully terrible animation and teaching young girls to be themselves.
I ask because though they are bad, they seem to be the sort of bad that still makes people remember them fondly. I'm in college and I've heard them talked about by several different groups of people in a positive light. I've watched a few, and they just seem to have a lot of elements to explore. I would love to know your opinion on them.
Madeleine Andersen I swear everyone has seen them!
Oh god, I'm only 15 and I've seen at least 5 of them! they were atrocious, as far as I recall. I still watched one about 7 times though, because she had rainbow wings, and 4 year old me was jealous.
I think "delightfully terrible" is the perfect way to describe the animation. And I will say the original movies are much better than the current movies where Barbie has much more of a contradictory learning curve and is generally shallow. I would love Lindsay to talk about the series.
God, they're so bad. The setup for any one of them is basically:
Skipper/Kelly: I can't do x thing!
Barbie: Sure you can, let me tell you a popular fairy tale that I have inserted myself into to help you get motivated.
Holy shit, you just reminded me of those for like the first time in 15 years. Definitely gonna try to rewatch them.
I’m low-key sad that this came out before Hadestown came to Broadway, Hadestown Hades is definitely my favourite portrayal of the character so far
What about Hades from Kid Icarus Uprising!? He is awesome! :)
Welcome to MY Underworld Pitty Pat!!!
MrCucco B though he does feel like if James Wood’s Hades was mixed with Tim Curry. You half expect him to ask Pit if he has Prince Albert in a can.
my favorite Hades has to be Red's chibi Hades from the Overly Sarcastic Productions channel on RUclips. It's an amazing channel
By far my favourite Hades is from the game Kid Icarus Uprising. Every time I think about him I just get a giant smile on my face.
1. His goal as a villain isn't to rule the world, but rather to perpetuate a giant war between gods because, in his words, "that's good for my business!'
2. He's James Woods's version except somehow even funnier, wittier and more devious and cunning than ever.
18:04 The book did him well Ares was the villain or "the god who has turned" and after Hades realizes Percy didn't take his helm of darkness he leaves them alone this just goes to show the directors didn't care about the books. During the series Hades is also one of the the least s***y godly parents, he lets Nico live with him and lets Hazel stay in the mortal world by turning a blind eye to her being an escapee from the underworld (Bianca dies really early on and chose rebirth so I didn't talk about her). Overall he also puts in the most effort protecting his demigod kids. He was the only one of the big three not to violate the oath seeing as all three of his kids were born before it. Meanwhile Zeus turns his daughter into a tree and ignores his son. Poseidon ignores his son until he needs him to do something, same with Hephaestus, Aphrodite and Athena. Meanwhile everyone else just ignores their kids completely.
With so much of modern Hollywood, it would be more ground breaking and fresh if they just stuck to the source material these days. A story about Hades trying to find love in a modern world? A romcom with a dejected guy who most women see as too pathetic to date, but yet is technically a god. Then he comes across a super peppy woman named Persephone, who is seen as an odd ball in the real world. They bond over their extreme opposite personalities but one common connection of being outcasts. This thing writes itself.
Okay, it would probably work better as an anime, but it would work!
this whole series is brilliant
I mean the title alone is perfect, but then it's Lindsay Ellis so the actual content is still brilliant
There was a cartoon called class of the titans with one of the weirdest versions of Hades I’ve ever seen but Persephone was amazing
Man I wish Lore Olympus was a tv series when this came out. It has the best hades ever, and I will defend that statement to the end of everything! 😁⚔️💙
I'm really sad this video came out a year before SuperGiant's game was released. It adheres to the mythology pretty well and is probably the best portrayal of the god I have ever seen. While he is a jerk and the central antagonist, he isn't a jerk. He killed his parents, was given the worst job of his brothers, and his wife left him when their son was stillborn. Basically, he's got issues. Lots of issues. Seems par for the course in Greek mythology.
Hades is by far my favorite of the Greek gods and this was great! Thank you.
"The god of love wants us to murder everyone so he can have an oligarchy rule"
I remember reading a book where it was literally Hades narrating greek mythology as it "really happened"
It might have been good or horrible, I read it in middle school though and found it enjoyable then.
Anyway he talked about how bad the other gods were and how he got a bad rap and stuff, that's the kind of hades that should exist, one that as the oldest son, was owed olympus but was willing to draw lots instead to allow his little brothers a chance and he took the worst of the 3 shifts (albeit one that gives him a very important role) for the sake of his siblings. Because of him, his siblings live a better life, he's the oldest sibling (albeit his sisters I believe are older but he's the oldest of the boys) who works so that his little siblings can go to college. He is the rock that holds the family together (controls the dead, keeps watch over tartarus where all the worst things that they couldn't kill rest in, etc). He also is arguably the strongest with the helm of darkness and the fact that whenever zeus is built up, it's always above the other olympians and not hades.
Zeus was willing to let Hades keep Perserphone despite the fact that his sister protested it, and he made a deal when demeter went all emo and made the world a constant winter/fall for apparently years (ice age?)
Which brings me to the whole persephone and hades thing, it always felt a bit consensual, demeter was the one who acted against it and not really persephone, so I'd say it's a mother's unwillingness to let her child go. (even after the deal that hades agreed with)
Not to mention hades is pretty much the best to go for out of the greek gods romantically. He doesn't go around turning into eagles and rays of light to fuck people, he doesn't fuck horses (I'm looking at you poseidon), he isn't constantly fighting with his wife, he's powerful and respected, etc.
Okay but "Welcome to Lindsay" is a powerful way to introduce yourself
I'd like her to have a look at Hades from the Supergiant games
You know, watching this and your Aphrodite episode again makes me want a Hercules: The Legendary Journeys/Xena: Warrior Princess retrospective so badly.
Hades is your sassy gay best friend, iv got the biggest crush
It's a tragedy this was made before Hades the video game. Still a fantastic video!
Was thinking that
Aww... And here I'd thought you'd talk about Hades in _Hades._
Great game, by the way. : )
Check the date the video came out.
She's good, but she can't see the future ;)
@@BardianAngel Yeah, I only noticed _after_ clicking the vid. Thought it was capitalizing on the hype.
She's gonna need a follow-up.
I'd love to see you come back to this with some of the latest interpretations of hades
I actually really love the helmet that Hades wears in the Hercules show. In the original Greek myth, Hades has a magic helmet that makes him invisible, and so I like the idea of a giant, ridiculous helmet. 😝
Hooray! Finally RUclips recommends me something wonderful. Thank you Lindsay. You're making this awful lockdown slightly more bearable. 😊
From my own research the reason Hades gets this type of treatment is because there isn't much known about him, people feared and respected him because of his rule over the dead, but feared him more, that's why he has so many nicknames people were afraid to even say his name so because there's so little about him he ends up getting associated with other images and aspects of death and the afterlife.
I love the video and just subscribed! I am truly bothered that most forms of media that depict Hades or the gods seem to forget about Persephone which sucks because she's very empowering as one of the only deities with two sides to them making her more complex. Not only that but in a lot of the variations of her meeting with Hades she fell in love and ran away with him and wasn't kidnapped or he was shot by Eros' arrow and she soon falls for him and willingly eats the seven pomegranate seeds ( food of Underworld varies). That's why we have winter is because she routinely goes back to the Underworld to spend time with her husband as part of a compromise Demeter made with Hades. Also, I love your lipstick!
Besides being subscribed to Lindsay, it's clear I got this in my recommended because I've been playing Hades (from Supergiant Games).
These things are great! Please keep making them... I have only just found them but I think they are brilliant.
*Deep breath* Why must you remind me of the Percy Jackson movies? *Sigh* It was such a good day...
You should totally check out the presentation of Hades in Hadestown concept album/musical! It's incredible and presents him quite wonderfully and 3-dimensionally!