Thanks for all your dedication to this module. As soon as somebody asks for more infos and reading about RIO/RADAR >>FlyAndWire is the first answer. Can you confirm that at this moment, phoenix are still WIP ? and what should we expect in final version in terms of guidance/performances if you know something about that ? Thanks
Thanks mate, you are too kind :) I can only confirm what I see versus, or in addition to, what is stated by Heatblur. I do not have access to the technical documentation necessary to do any independent statement about the Phoenix (similarly, I do not write anything I did not test myself beforehand :) ). That being said, the PSTT mode caught my curiosity due to what the devs said (see the links the quotes in the video): long story short, there are some blockers they cannot fix themselves as they are in ED's hands, so the implementation is a bit funny now and the missiles behaves as a TWS when radar contact lost. In fact, quoting Heatblur: "in-flight missiles with TWS will no longer go active if tracking is lost, the F-14 is destroyed, the radar is disabled etc. before 16s TTI. However, the WCS can keep a track file stored for up to 2 minutes (for targets under missile attack) and send an active signal to the Phoenix pointing it into the target’s likely position, if the track has not updated for a certain time" (source: forums.eagle.ru/topic/252120-aim-54-changes-new-api-fixes-are-live-in-todays-patch/ - The TTI16" thing has been changed btw, the link is old). I'd love to go down the rabbit hole and do some thorough testing about the guidance and the radar modes, but I want to see some fixes by ED first. In primis, the countermeasures. At the moment, in case you are not aware, they are not physicalized (meaning, the actual chaff does not exist in the virtual sky) and it's not different from a die roll from D&D or WH40K. Ergo, you can spam enough and chances are that eventually your missile will chase the squirrel rather than the target. Obviously, the implementation is more complex than that, but it is still too basic and leads to unrealistic situations.
The only thing messed up pretty bad is TWS 54 shots on AI. The AI goes defensive as soon as you launch in TWS, which they shouldn't even know the missile was launched until it goes active.
@@Swizzlestik It would also be unrealistic on the other end of the spectrum if the AI waited until pitbull before knowing a missile was launched on them. Real pilots can presume missiles are likely inbound based on the sensor info available and take defensive measures before their RWR starts beeping. So modelling it the way you say is not ideal either.
The thing is, a good pilot or RIO can kind of guess if an AIM-54 was launched against them as the hostile may start to crank, change speed, dive and whatnot (at the same time, the hostile may not change any parameter, of course). What I'd love to see is a smart AI that understands its inferiority in terms of range so cranks and manoeuvres to spoil a possible launch. The problem is that, at the moment, the trigger for any defensive action is the FOX-3 launch, which is not realistic.
Great video! Could you think about making a video about holding soft lock in TWS? Many times I have trashed Phoenixes due to Jester or myself as a RIO just losing the track in mid flight. Thank you
Sure, I can do it. However, unless you have a specific situation in mind, it won't be longer than a minute as it all comes down to the usage of the MLC if the target attempts to beam, and speed/geometry management if the targets attempts to use the ZDF (usually by going cold). Even better, if you can put together a simple scenario I can play it and record it. Nothing too complex though, otherwise managing Iceman quickly becomes a headache :)
The AI reactions tend to soil some of the fun. The perfect notch and countermeasures is something the AI will currently do even if you launch in TWS mode from 50nm. Of course the brief notch is enough for the WCS to lose everything and the missile goes dumb. I wish there was a way to have the WCS resume a TWS track after the AI cheat notch, or at least have the AI not react to what should be a silent shot.
Yep, the AI is still the same ED used in LOMAC probably :) On a serious note, they are updating it, starting from WW2 so eventually it will become more realistic. It is not an easy task and ED is not a huge company, so it will take some time. About your problem, the first advice is playing against a Veteran AI or less, in terms of skill level: rather than being more challenging, their SA becomes more divine and FM closer to UFO levels. On top of that, if you are the RIO, you can always command a nose down on top of the crank, and then turn of the MLC. If the Vc appears to be close to ±100 kts, either command Idle or Gate do avoid ZDF. It's not easy but at least we can counter it somehow. I'm more annoyed about the chaff situation tbh.
@@blckdrgn813 A more realistic ECM implementation would be very welcomed. Unfortunately I doubt we'll see anything really in-depth due to how sensible the topic is.
Hi! Do you mean locking from the DDD? if that's the case, you need to press the appropriate HCU function button (RDR). Have a look here: www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/cockpit.html#hand-control-unit-hcu
The target size switch is currently affecting the range of pitbull, small is 6NM, med is 10NM, and large is 16NM(i think). Do you think this could be used to even greater effect with 16NM pitbull?
Yep, the ranges are close to what you remember: 6nm, 10m, 13nm (heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#detail-data-display-ddd-and-panel) About the impact in this scenario however, no that switch should not matter in this sense because a Phoenix launched in STT is either a SARH (PDSTT) or it is active immediately (PSTT). The activation range, unless it affects by mistake the current inaccurate implementation of PSTT, is not relevant in this scenario. According to the manual, it should help the WCS to set certain parameters though, but I never quantified the effects (it's one of the many tests I decided to stop when HB announced the WCS overhaul in October 2019). That switch can be used effectively to surprise (by reducing the time available to defend) or skate early (increasing the activation distance) when the AIM-54 is used in TWS.
Great vid Karon..but I have questions. In the scenario where you launched 4 54's did you do that is TWS or PDSTT?? it looked like you individually locked them. I didn't think you could do that in PSTT or PDSTT.
I was in Pulse STT, locking straight from the DDD (you may have have noticed that the b-scope was in AZM vs RNG rather than AZM vs Vc). I locked and launched one after the other with no sustain, as they are active immediately.
@@FlyAndWire had no idea that you can even do that! I'm going to try and mimic your test. See what results I come up with. Thanks for all you do. I reach out if I have any questions....whats b-scope? LoL
@@ghostrider1827 Me neither. This is the first real test of the new WCS I did because again, I'd rather not spending too much time on something that is still WIP. About the b-scope: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_display
Thank you again for providing the education concerning this sim
No problem mate!
Thanks for all your dedication to this module. As soon as somebody asks for more infos and reading about RIO/RADAR >>FlyAndWire is the first answer. Can you confirm that at this moment, phoenix are still WIP ? and what should we expect in final version in terms of guidance/performances if you know something about that ? Thanks
Thanks mate, you are too kind :)
I can only confirm what I see versus, or in addition to, what is stated by Heatblur. I do not have access to the technical documentation necessary to do any independent statement about the Phoenix (similarly, I do not write anything I did not test myself beforehand :) ).
That being said, the PSTT mode caught my curiosity due to what the devs said (see the links the quotes in the video): long story short, there are some blockers they cannot fix themselves as they are in ED's hands, so the implementation is a bit funny now and the missiles behaves as a TWS when radar contact lost. In fact, quoting Heatblur: "in-flight missiles with TWS will no longer go active if tracking is lost, the F-14 is destroyed, the radar is disabled etc. before 16s TTI. However, the WCS can keep a track file stored for up to 2 minutes (for targets under missile attack) and send an active signal to the Phoenix pointing it into the target’s likely position, if the track has not updated for a certain time" (source: forums.eagle.ru/topic/252120-aim-54-changes-new-api-fixes-are-live-in-todays-patch/ - The TTI16" thing has been changed btw, the link is old).
I'd love to go down the rabbit hole and do some thorough testing about the guidance and the radar modes, but I want to see some fixes by ED first. In primis, the countermeasures. At the moment, in case you are not aware, they are not physicalized (meaning, the actual chaff does not exist in the virtual sky) and it's not different from a die roll from D&D or WH40K. Ergo, you can spam enough and chances are that eventually your missile will chase the squirrel rather than the target. Obviously, the implementation is more complex than that, but it is still too basic and leads to unrealistic situations.
The only thing messed up pretty bad is TWS 54 shots on AI. The AI goes defensive as soon as you launch in TWS, which they shouldn't even know the missile was launched until it goes active.
@@Swizzlestik It would also be unrealistic on the other end of the spectrum if the AI waited until pitbull before knowing a missile was launched on them. Real pilots can presume missiles are likely inbound based on the sensor info available and take defensive measures before their RWR starts beeping. So modelling it the way you say is not ideal either.
@@CallsignJoNay yea but they shouldn't be flopping like a fish out of water as soon as you hit a2a launch.
The thing is, a good pilot or RIO can kind of guess if an AIM-54 was launched against them as the hostile may start to crank, change speed, dive and whatnot (at the same time, the hostile may not change any parameter, of course).
What I'd love to see is a smart AI that understands its inferiority in terms of range so cranks and manoeuvres to spoil a possible launch. The problem is that, at the moment, the trigger for any defensive action is the FOX-3 launch, which is not realistic.
Sounds like some good information; wish I could understand him .
Great video! Could you think about making a video about holding soft lock in TWS? Many times I have trashed Phoenixes due to Jester or myself as a RIO just losing the track in mid flight. Thank you
Sure, I can do it. However, unless you have a specific situation in mind, it won't be longer than a minute as it all comes down to the usage of the MLC if the target attempts to beam, and speed/geometry management if the targets attempts to use the ZDF (usually by going cold).
Even better, if you can put together a simple scenario I can play it and record it. Nothing too complex though, otherwise managing Iceman quickly becomes a headache :)
The AI reactions tend to soil some of the fun. The perfect notch and countermeasures is something the AI will currently do even if you launch in TWS mode from 50nm. Of course the brief notch is enough for the WCS to lose everything and the missile goes dumb. I wish there was a way to have the WCS resume a TWS track after the AI cheat notch, or at least have the AI not react to what should be a silent shot.
Yep, the AI is still the same ED used in LOMAC probably :)
On a serious note, they are updating it, starting from WW2 so eventually it will become more realistic. It is not an easy task and ED is not a huge company, so it will take some time.
About your problem, the first advice is playing against a Veteran AI or less, in terms of skill level: rather than being more challenging, their SA becomes more divine and FM closer to UFO levels. On top of that, if you are the RIO, you can always command a nose down on top of the crank, and then turn of the MLC. If the Vc appears to be close to ±100 kts, either command Idle or Gate do avoid ZDF. It's not easy but at least we can counter it somehow. I'm more annoyed about the chaff situation tbh.
@@FlyAndWire Perfect advice, and hopefully better CM (and maybe ECM) simulation will make things better!
@@blckdrgn813 A more realistic ECM implementation would be very welcomed. Unfortunately I doubt we'll see anything really in-depth due to how sensible the topic is.
Sir how to move the sensor and lock in target i try alot of button but cant find it
Hi! Do you mean locking from the DDD? if that's the case, you need to press the appropriate HCU function button (RDR). Have a look here: www.heatblur.se/F-14Manual/cockpit.html#hand-control-unit-hcu
The target size switch is currently affecting the range of pitbull, small is 6NM, med is 10NM, and large is 16NM(i think). Do you think this could be used to even greater effect with 16NM pitbull?
Yep, the ranges are close to what you remember: 6nm, 10m, 13nm (heatblur.se/F-14Manual/general.html#detail-data-display-ddd-and-panel)
About the impact in this scenario however, no that switch should not matter in this sense because a Phoenix launched in STT is either a SARH (PDSTT) or it is active immediately (PSTT). The activation range, unless it affects by mistake the current inaccurate implementation of PSTT, is not relevant in this scenario.
According to the manual, it should help the WCS to set certain parameters though, but I never quantified the effects (it's one of the many tests I decided to stop when HB announced the WCS overhaul in October 2019).
That switch can be used effectively to surprise (by reducing the time available to defend) or skate early (increasing the activation distance) when the AIM-54 is used in TWS.
Great vid Karon..but I have questions. In the scenario where you launched 4 54's did you do that is TWS or PDSTT?? it looked like you individually locked them. I didn't think you could do that in PSTT or PDSTT.
I was in Pulse STT, locking straight from the DDD (you may have have noticed that the b-scope was in AZM vs RNG rather than AZM vs Vc). I locked and launched one after the other with no sustain, as they are active immediately.
@@FlyAndWire had no idea that you can even do that! I'm going to try and mimic your test. See what results I come up with. Thanks for all you do. I reach out if I have any questions....whats b-scope? LoL
@@ghostrider1827 Me neither. This is the first real test of the new WCS I did because again, I'd rather not spending too much time on something that is still WIP.
About the b-scope: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_display
@@FlyAndWire Roger...nice! This was a big help!!