Volume vs. Intensity for Longevity | Washed-Up Meatheads
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- Опубликовано: 23 июн 2021
- Dave Tate and JM Blakley are in the s5 Compound reminiscing about their decades of lifting! Sit back, relax, and get yourself an old-school education!
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Commented for the algorithm. Liked for Dave and JM.
This.
Couldn’t agree more
King shit
What else would ya ever need 👌
I'd buy The Wind in the Willows as read by JM Blakley
He is the Morgan Freeman of weightlifting 🏋️♀️
Staying strong is definitely a benefit to getting older. I'm 50 with friends at a similar age falling apart. They have never lifted a heavy weight, done a single sporting activity or a hard day's graft in there life. While myself have done many hard sports, lifted heavy for years, I'll admitt not at these guys level and I'm a builder in the uk grafting nearly every day. I'm mostly injury free, apart from a blown out knee 25 years ago
Which I had 3 surgerys to repair. I believe staying strong and balanced in my strength training as enabled me to stay on top of my job and kicking most 20 years old ass at work and in the gym. This is only my experience for what it's worth.
Thanks for the good information your putting out. Stay strong my friends 💪
I'm 30 and have just started to feel older than 15 bodywise. I attribute that to my training. And after reading your comment, I can probably look forward to a somewhat similar life the next 20 years. Great!
@@HolyPineConeThanks for your reply. In my experience again is that you start to reap the real value of training the older you get. Not really now at your age. It's when you get into your 40's, 50's and 60's is where you really start to see the benefits. As I say many of my friends are falling apart and weak without any real reason. One more thing I'll add is and this no disrespect to Dave and J M is I think the massive gear use as a lot to do with Ihealth issues. Again it's only from what I've seen and experience. If you learn to train smart, no massive gear abuse. You may not be a world champion but you'll be strong and healthy way into old age.
@@BudgieBurgess1972 That's exactly what I'm hoping for when I get older. Just trying to stay healthy
That's Great! Add 17 more yrs lol ! I'm still pushing for a 340 bench.
@@BudgieBurgess1972 gear abuse plays a massive role in longevity, you can’t blast & cruise forever and your body can only take so much. It’s most likely going to be the thing that ruins your longevity as it can and does put your tendons at risk
Hey - as a 49yo IM/nephrology MD heavyweight with a hip replacement, I want to say both of you are absolutely spot on in your observations and recommendations around navigating the medical system. You very appropriately point out some of the blind spots and biases of many providers, and your suggestions to lead and work with providers to move past them to get the best care for yourself, while realizing that they are sometimes right are excellent. Being aware of the limitations of both the system and one's own knowledge is generally the most productive route. Thanks!
JM’s whispering always calms Dave down. Like, Dave looks like he’s holding back his normally boisterous self…JM and his mind games!
JM has full grown Amazon rainforest pythons for arms
Jibóia, jovem. É esse o nome correto.
That's a talk you should have with Mark Rippetoe, Andy Baker, Jonathon Sullivan or some of the SSCs who happen to be DPTs. That's a topic they deal with on a daily basis, mostly from a general population perspective.
And putting it into perspective from your elite lifting history, it would be interesting.
Peoples mentionned above are mostly proponent of heavy lifting with good technique and low volume. Volume going lower as the person's age goes up.
Mark Rippetoe is a fucking joke.
I would listen to JM talk about the dynamics of paint drying
Bob Ross moment
Watching this as I am 26 years old, been lifting for over a decade and doing conjugate for the last 4 years. This is gold. Yet again. Can't wait to buy elite fts equipment for my home gym in the near future.
How much have you improved on conjugate?
How much strength did you gain and did you have any injury?
@@mihael2509 I built strength for 2 years, deadlift went from 235 kgs to 265 kgs, squat from 175 kgs to 200 kgs and bench from 145 to 160. The last 2 years I've been losing weight and only upped those numbers by around 5 kg each, but that wasnt the focus. No injuries in the last 4 years.
As an old meathead I agree 100% with weight over volume . I'm 42 and my 750 squat will let me die happy , not my 10 years of 405 sets . KEEP LIFTING no matter what !! thank you guys for the years of work !!
The production quality you guys put in is really good 👍
Love the production quality, great sound, and great camera. Fantastic video!
Wow, some much info in this video, can’t say thank enough for the knowledge you guys provide.
Great podcast! It's always best to find a doctor who is or was a powerlifter. The more elite the lifter, the better the doctor.
Considering the variation of training response in people- some thriving on high volume but getting beaten down by heavy training, vs people who thrive on heavy training but get too worn out by high volume training- I have to imagine that avoiding injuries would be an individual response as well; mediated by smart programming overall, load management, sensible progression.
I love weightlifting and I watch a lot of content on it, and I have never been as captivated as I was watching this
Thanks for the video guys! God Bless
Thanks guys
Thank you for the level of insight.
First time to the channel and JM has a very pleasant soothing voice for such a large imposing man lol
I love the JM content.
Thanks for the info guys!!
jay cutler says 8-12 reps is the best. he has been lifting for a long time and he's still in great shape at 50 years old. He would be a great guest to have on.
Just bought some of the inhale amino from you guys, bout to try it before some squats.
I’ve always wondered this. I feel like with and increase in technology and increase accessibility in imagining, we soon should be able to see what various methods on training do to our structure. I think the best we can do now is look at various strength sports from Olympic weightlifting, powerlifting, strongman, and some track and field events. Then see what types of training each sport engages in and then try to find a trend.
It is a fantastic idea to do some studies with serial MRIs, X-rays etc over perhaps a decade in a group of serious lifters. Two caveats; onebis that you woukd nerd a VERY large N to compensate for subjects that either drop out or dont continue to improve for a decade. Still even a few years would be instrumental. Second, nobody cares. Who to fund such important ( to us!) studies? Who woukd care enough to give money for this excellent idea if yours? I realky wish we has experimentors who just look at mire knowlegldge for its own sake and not subsidized by some shadow corporation or interest group. Perhaps we coukd form a special interest group and try to drum up $$$? Goid idea and with todays technology, we should not have to guess and deduce as we do.
Love JM!
Idk if this was said, but as a competitive powerlifter of 10 years from age 34 to now 45, I look at my joints from the time under tension viewpoint. 80% for 5 reps vs 5 singles at 80%. Same volume.....different stress. Just as an example of how I've had to adapt my training to my training age and years on this planet.
Always quality info
This applies to me so much. Wear and tear from basketball has worn my knees and ankle down
That's so true! You can't compare your pain to someone else's pain! What someone else thinks is painful you might not! But yet, the reason you might not is based on many factors! Stress, anger, hurt, health, and so on! People have higher pain levels at some points than others based on these factors and more! Women like to say that childbirth is the most painful but yet, many I have personally talked to said it was nowhere near as bad as they thought or others make it out, but again the factors! These women have experienced way more pain from kidney stones or broken bones! Pain is highly subjective!
JM sounds like your math teacher keeping you back after 8th period to talk about the next quiz
Interesting discussion. Remember that joints also wear out on people who don't lift, often at similar age. Genetics, prior injury, and non-training use history play into it. Thanks for your cogitations into this line of inquiry.
Right, parts remodel regardless. Stagnant tissue repair stagnantly due to lack of demand.
Excellent point. Genetics (a swear word to me) and especially Epigenetics are only a guide. There are people who have died from lung cancer who have never smoked. But if we can mitigate, we should have a 'best practices' of mitigation.
@@j.m.blakley4126 Right on. It's a challenging balancing act. I wish you grace and agility!
We all age, but Sarcopenia may be the most common restrictive malady that steals independence. My Dad gave me his barbells when he turned 88 and had cancer and degeneration in his lower spine, but he kept to his training principles using bodyweight. He still used the stairs instead of my Mom's elevator chair, and would often stand and lean as long as possible instead of sitting. He was a great example of going deep into your last set.
Just to throw my two cents in, I’ve noticed my joints get flared up with pain a lot more doing higher reps with less weight, however proximity to failure plays a huge role. For me, something moderately heavy with reps between 1-6 leaving 1-3 reps in the tank seen to be best on my joint pain.
JM's voice is so soothing
Sounds like a white Kai Greene haha
When I hit a wall with maxes/ intensity I go to volume/reps.,when I have injuries I work around them. Partials, less range of motion, focus on another lift,etc.
Can't do bench right now cause shoulder pinch and hernia acting up when I unrack 3 wheels+ but heavy pullovers are Fine. Preacher curls, leg extensions/ curls, Dumbbell press, chest expander etc. Go figure ?
I'll be back benching about a month. I need a 340 bench.
All day I'm a natty old geezer but about midnight I get a cup of coffee and go into my weight room and I feel like I'm in a church.
My Iron church and I rejuvenate !
Real interesting topic
Great video
Thanks gents!
Could listen to Dave and JM for 18 hours
I am not a powerlifter and train for general health and strength. I like to keep sets in 3-6 reps for working sets in some exercises while some exercises are in 8-10 rep range
Anyone else talk like JM does when they're drinking and debating their friends?
I love his voice
It’s called asmr.
Look it up.
Good conversation
Logic is a difficult thing to come by for sure, great talk
Awesome
I belive by listening to this discussion that the difference is Mabey shown in the power lifting and bodybuilding
I belive through the different research done that , yes muscle is most likely better to carry a little more than recommended over the safe amount of weight in fat. But carrying an over bearing amount of weight that increases negative effects on the cardiovascular and pulmonary systems for extended periods of time can be detrimental to your overall health. Young guys will most likely not show symptoms. I belive that many years of being " overweight" and I am referencing this in a chronic since that it can cause all kinds of issues. High blood pressure, kidney issues, possible heart wall enlargement and hardening, liver issues trying to keep up with constant carb loading, but it is awesome to be huge and strong.
awesome
Guy on the right's voice is so calming.
A beginner lifter can take two top lifters for comparison, one lifter who built career with mostly intensity based training and one lifter who mainly focused on volume in training. Their training journey including success, injury history, success rate, progress rate, etc. can give an idea which path that beginner lifter wants to choose.
I've been trying to research..you've mentioned heavy static holds for tendon stength..do you think calistenics the static aspect of it is the best for tendon strength? When doing calistenic holds your always pushing your limits to achieve a harder pose and its static holds with unique angles and strain you put on the tendons and muscles
The hip replacement probability woild have happend anyway, just at a later time. I have a cousin that had both replaced and he is a civil engineer never lifted a day in his life. Thanks for the info.
Muscle still puts strain on the heart so he's right weight can be an issue even if you are lean ask Stan eff. You still need to pump fluid around a larger mass.
Two Champions. Super Heavy lifting plus steroids equals tremendous huge pounds lifted for 10 to 25 years max. Big weights lifted for that long is hard on your joints. Cut the crap boys, your lucky to be alive and walking.
Accessory rotation is the key to not needing an occupational therapist.
Piana always said high reps burn got him bigger. Look at cutler and yates both never went below the knee for deadlifts both have good backs . Both did lots of volume. And are fine . Coleman sadly was heavy heavy heavy. It had negative heavy effects too. They only went max once a month.
Yates didn't do lots of volume. He was the actual poster boy for 1 set to failure!
One thing that going down the youtube weight training rabbit hole, and seeing opinions develop over time, is just how fucking complex this all is. The average person won't even knwo that hypertrophe/nodybuilding training isn't strength training, the difference between power and strength, and other basics, before even getting their heads around these debates. Personally my gut and some cursory research tells me that, for non weight lifters/powerlifter athletes, probably low rep strength trainign tapering into power training on an off season which is then maintained by volume to maintain it during season is probs the way to go
Its seems to me that a comparison between elite level bodybuilders and elite level powerlifter from the 70’$ and 80’s , to see how many are still healthy ,would answer the question of intensity vs. Volume.
What is the heavy weight that you don't want to go passed?
Jm should narrate james earl jones life
I'm 68. These days, I'm desperately working to slow the inevitable weakening that must happen as I age. I have no doubt at all that lifting has contributed to the health of both my joints and my muscles. I'm not a power lifter. Was a gymnast when I was young and a martial artist until bad knees took that away from me. Sucks, but that's the way things go. However, I am absolutely convinced that regular resistance training is the only thing that's keeping all that abuse from just breaking my body down. I do each lift very lightly to warm up and work up until I can't lift the load. It works for me. I'll keep doing it for that reason.
🙏
I think there is definitely a point at which someone is big enough and strong enough.Eventually you will find out what the joints don’t like if you get strong enough.
Any recommendations for lower back pain? Stretching is obviously a go. Also I don't have a reverse hyper machine. Any substitutes that you guys could recommend?
Exercise all surrounding muscles, so that they take the load instead of your low back, especially glutes and abs.
Answering directly: body weight reverse hyper on a bench, glute ham raise, RDLs
@@jon.a thank you!
I've learned the issues with Arthritis could be directly linked to a high acidic diet for many years. Blood flow in crucial
So if you're back hurts do squats .
That's just a theory and not really supported by anything. No one really knows why we get arthritis. They said the same about fat and caused 2 generations of diabetics with low testosterone because they said ditch fat and eat carbs
Work around your symptoms and when they have a 100% definitive answer on cause... Then we can rejoice
Knowledge
It seems like people that use sub max weight and more reps and volume get injured more often. My physical therapist calls it over-use. Same with sprinters. Lots of volume results in more injuries. High intensity low volume sprinters have less injuries. This is evident and it seems to be true for power lifters as well. It would be good to have data on this to get the true answers.
I think this all depends on the person. I have always been able to do super high volume with a lower weight without having strains and injuries. Full body 3 times a week. Same exercises each time. 4-6 sets per exercises.
But when I lift maximum weights, 5-6 reps and lower my sets to 3-4, I get strains more often. Now this is just me.
@@72Dexter72Manley72 like most things strength sports, it's genetic. Some people have more fast twitch or slow twitch fibers. Some people have more robust tendons. It's all about self experimentation with training and sticking to what works and keeps you injury free
We should tread lightly when we answer 'it depends' . That can be literally said of most everything. And thevreal thingbis that its not very satisfying or enlightening. It is true, but I think it can finish the discussion early. I think a better tack is to look for overlap and consistent patterns. It will still depend, but we can more easily ID some common threads than explain a million dependencies.
I think it would be great if you would put in the description if a video is a fragment from a table talk. It's not as interesting to watch if I've seen it before in the full table talk:) Just a minor tip for improvement
When I listen to Louie talk about joint and ligament training, he always talks about minimal to no load and lots 200+ reps total while attempting to achieve no muscle stimulation and just work through the joint - does that weigh in to this at all?
It does. Check their video on tendon strenght
get after it
From a bodybuilding point of view look at Jay Cutler vs Ronnie Coleman longevity wise vs training style
I see a JM I make time
No studies on this?
Dr: obviously it was Govid19 why you tore your pec🤷🏼♂️duh 😂
ive noticed going all out for even one set as much more of a mental drain then volume.
This may sound dumb, but I've based my training off of Goku and Gohan training during the cell games. Sacrificing speed for power and bulkly muscles wastes a lot of energy. Better to stay balanced and focus on hard work and harder rest over time. I nearly cried when I finally got a 405 deadlift but the first time I did over 2 plates on the bench 230, I wasn't as moved. Miss it so much. Power lifting is definitely in a different league from weightlifting. You basically turn into a human pressure cooker. You have to match force with force so you really are just playing around with diminishing returns after a certain point. If you could do one or the other go heavy for few reps on main movements. And high reps on everything else. Plateaus are just like any another space, providing room for improvement.
It is astonishing that physicians continue to use BMI as an indicator for athletes.
How about static holds?
There is a ton of positive research literature out there on the effectiveness of static holds/isometric training.
Definitely worth looking into for longevity/long term training for health.
First time I ever benched 275 I did a 10 second static hold with 315 right before, it made the 275 feel light enough for me to lift it
I am very into the isometrics (not quite static holding) now. I bekieve both are worth exploring on a personal level. Good point
To be fair, the doctor wasn't wrong if he's thinking purely in terms of maximizing the length of the patient's life. It's just that the sacrifices necessary to make iron addicts live longer (to become small and weak) would make our lives no longer worth living. Like good old Mussolini said: It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep.
bob ross of bench
yall need some experts to debate so we all can get answers
Ya
Doing heavy singles and doubles is probably not the best idea for non-competitive lifters?
I agree with you, but thete isca lot of fun and personal reward to going all out. Ifff youbarent competitive, I think you do well to scske it back. But I'd hate to deprive you of the esteem and pride that come with max efforts. Just make a good bsrgain with yourself.
The closer to stay to the limits the closer you are to injury and unwanted damage. Unless you compete the risk is absolutely not worth it.
Do connective tissues adapt differently to high load/low reps vs moderate load/high reps? Gonna start looking through a bit of science about this. Any ideas appreciated and as always love hearing table talks
what is your definition of high vs low reps? if high reps are 10-15 reps per set and low reps are 1-6 reps, then there probably is almost no difference. If high reps is something like working in a factory and making 1,000+ movements per day, then there likely is a difference in adaptation.
Algo
JMSR
Longevity
Is it possible the doctor asked you to lose weight not because you were fat but because your high amount of muscle caused you to have elevated creatinine levels which were affecting your kidneys?
It's only JM press if it is performed by JM Blakley. Otherwise, it's just a sparkling skull crusher
What in the ASMR is this!?
Algorithm
Instead of buying bts meal why not use the money to help them and they can give us more wonderful videos like this
I always find it funny whe peole say “ you have to know when it’s over “. Why? If you still like doing it , why should it ever be over ? Because someone else says so ? No thanks .
18:13 he was not 10% body fat, if he had 10% body fat he would have looked cut, not "beging of abs"
this i misleading...
beging of abs can evan be on 20% if you have really big abs, just look at eddie hall hi is fat but you can still see his abs because his abs muscles are abnormaly large
But I understand what they said about bmi, but I think if you where very muscler it will defently effect your healty, evan if you where 350 and have now leaned down to 260. I mean the people that live the longest isnt 260, and 260 is still alot. I mean the people that live the longest are more like 170, and 260 is still alot and I mean this guy is probely not 6'5 and evan 260 at 6'5 is alot.
@@yourforklift1436 there are far more people who weigh 170 v 260 of any age, so when you look at an old age, say 95, where the total population is very low, then you're even less likely to see a 260lb person (even if life expectancy was equal for the two bodyweights). Also, to make conclusions regarding longevity, at least 100 years must pass from the birth of the people in question; very few individuals born before 1920 reached 260lbs unless they were very fat. So there is not yet any information on longevity for people of that size who are in shape. There are early deaths reported for bodybuilders and retired pro athletes of this size, but this can be caused by drug use or post-retirement inactivity and weight gain as opposed to just size.
@@yourforklift1436 ok we get it, 260 is a lot
@@jameschantler4292 thats a good point🤔
I find it interesting how confidently you say that! I'd be even more interested in where you came by your info to form that opinion! (?)
The whispering🙄
Whether it's muscle or fat the body has to vascularize the tissue so the bigger you are the harder your heart has to pump to keep functional blood pressure. This taxes the heart beyond what your body's genetic setpoint of body weight ideally wants to sit at so I imagine it would shave a few years off your life expectancy. However I wonder if you very slowly accumulate mass over years and years to allow the body to adjust and do cardio intelligently to keep the vessels and heart fit if this would offset the negative effects of being a heavier weight. 🤔🤷♂️
Yeah, I too wonder about cardio. For if you like to run a lot and lower your resting heart rate from 60 to 40 or something. Does this make your heart better at handling a bigger body weight? The reason the heart rate lowers, is because you have trained your heart and it has gotten stronger. Or is this completely unrelated? Hmm
@@HolyPineCone Good question, in my opinion and experience (being a personal trainer) a lower heart rate is great for longevity of life. Assuming the theory that we are all born with a predetermined amount of heartbeats for our lifetime, lowering heart rate would use less beats throughout your life therefore you live longer. However, having lower heart rate usually is coupled with lower blood pressure which is not optimal for high intensity performamce such as heavy weightlifting, football, etc. My father and grandmother both got their resting heart rates in the low 40's and they would always be lightheaded or dizzy when standing up or moving too fast. We need optimal amounts and types of cardio for optimal blood pressure, cellular fitness, and tissue fitness.
All these answers are available now. You might not like the answers but the Life Extensionists were all about this from the get go. It is interesting to say the least! Check out the food intake and sleep data!
The problem is we currently have no way of determining an individual's genetic potential and fundamental limitations. But as a general rule for any machine or body : avoid redlining your engine, run it regularly and do proper maintenance. The longest living individuals in the world, are active their whole life, but they are not pushing themselves too far either.
Sponsored by Celebrex.
Why is this guy whispering the whole interview.
Because he's an individual.... With idiosyncrasies like the rest of us?
Why are you asking a daft question?
So, what is the conclusion of this? Intensity or volume, something in between. Wear and tear will happen no matter what.
Gotta be honest..these guys talk an awful lot without saying anything. They never seem to directly answer a question and always go off course talking about something else. 9:00 in and STILL havent answered the question..and actually said "I dont know".
Not every question has a ready made answer like in grade school. Much of this we have to explore with open minds. The truth is that when we recieve an 'answer' the questioning STOPS COLD. The discussion is over. We are done here. Why ask anything more when we have it all worked out? So questions are more important than answers. Thete is no growth after you get your 'answer'. But ask8ng mire questions moves the growth aling deeper and deeper. We don't really get to that place too often where we 'have' the 'answer'. It is just a long series of MORE QUESTIONS.
@@j.m.blakley4126 Gotcha my man..
I could go on all night with a response..but I won't..I'll leave you with this :
JM Press one of THE most UNDER Utilized Innovations in the History of Weightlifting...