I love that Dave kept his tongue bitten and just let him talk. He may be right, he may be wrong. What he says will work for some and not others. These ideas have to be out there for people to try, you shouldn't just blow down ideas just because it's not what you think.
@@dessertstorm7476 anecdotally , I know 2 powerlifters who won medals at IPF raw worlds using a type conjugate system but it had to be adapted so far from westside that it really wasn’t westside. Ie box squatting wasn’t done which is a massive part of the westside system , speed work was more like volume work in 65-75% range in 3 week waves and they practiced the competition lifts very often on ME days. I like many others have concluded the conjugate system is not optimal for raw powerlifting and if someone was thinking of running it they need to go to a proper powerlifting gym.
I understand the workout but sounds more like a work capacity workout, which is great. But, does he use bands, chains,? Does JM do board presses, floor presses and conjugate? Didnt sound like it based on his numbers . Numbers would all be different from flat bench, incline, floor. etc
the benefit of speed work is that it allows you to train with maximal intention without stressing the tissues to the same extent that a heavier load that requires the same forces to move would. It doesn’t do anything magic, other than allow you to train more (because using heavy weight at high frequencies is not feasible). Realistically in strength training, one should attempt to lift every rep as fast as possible, so the concept of speed specific work is silly. Simply call it a light day, and it would be speed work. Because all reps should be moved as fast as possible
Yep. That’s exactly what I always say about speed work. Every rep I’ve ever performed, I was driving the bar up as hard and fast as I could. Unless it was a tempo set that I was for some reason trying to slow down the eccentric, which wasn’t something I did very often at all.
Ironically, speed work can also lead to injuries. And if you're doing speed work to avoid injuries, then that's sort of counter productive. For example, I can't do speed work on deadlifts because it fires up something in my lower back and makes it painful. If I go slow and steady, I can lift the weight with no pain. So I train every weight at the same speed. If I didn't, I would be constantly irritating my lower back and slowing down progress, or worse yet, I would have injured myself beyond repair at this point.
I love JM. Met him at worlds in worthington over 15 years ago. During the time I trained there this guy gave me so many life nuggets I can’t even keep track. When JM gets talking...listen. As good as he is with this stuff it’s dull compared to this guys general life advice and philosophical thoughts. You should do a podcast with him and just general banter.
Thanks for this superb interview, Dave. As others have said, it is much appreciated that you allow the interviewee to speak fully without interruptions (like other interviewers do).
@@SquatBenDeadlift where they do things that increase their weakness. And they do sport specific gpp. And they train strength, hypertrophy, and maybe more depending
@@turtlespurples That's not really what conjugate is, the primary component of conjugate is using a ton of "variants" in order to max out without overtraining, that's what makes conjugate special. The other thing it does well is have a ton of hypertrophy but that's not really "conjugate" it's just something you should be doing. The speed work is kinda pointless imo.
That's what I've been doing. Pick a weight and progress on the reps up to a goal. For me, the range starts with my 5 rep-max and then I'm married to it, 5 sets to 0-2 RIR, until I can hit 30 reps straight. Takes care of strength in the 3-7 rep range, fast-twitch hypertrophy in the 8-15 rep range, and slow-twitch hypertrophy in the 15-30 range. The 15 to 30 push gives my joints time to calm down and is a solid time to cut. Coolest thing is that when you're done and repeat, your new 5 rep-max weight is about 50% more and the weight you used last cycle is now your warm-up. Note: I'm not powerlifting (obviously), this is bodybuilder and long-term aesthetic focused. Works great though, and like JM said, you're always progressing.
I've done this with great success with pushups in the past, and I still often do it to where I want to move something from a consistent XRM to a higher consistent XRM, even if I don't always need to hit it on every set. That's a lot of work to build up muscular endurance over many sets, which might not be worth it to you.
Absolutely takes everything this guy says as gold. We're all different physically and mentally tho, and for me if I don't train dynamic effort for my speed one night out the week I tend to fall off five or ten lbs instead of increasing slowing so I notice. But could be mental who knows
Plus speed work is also about active recovery and pr in some aspect not just 1rm. This is what I have taking away from speed work. I'm not a pro PL but for me speed work has been awesome for recovery and explosiveness just my opinion
Louie Simmons mentions the 6x6 protocol for bench press quite often, so it's not like this is conjugate sacrilege. He himself used this after learning about it from Larry Pacifico...
I like speed work alot. But I use push jerks, push press, etc along with different bench variations. I feel speed work on OHP movements are a must for me.
I have always viewed speed/dynamic-effort work as a day to work towards technical mastery with weights that aren't insignificant, yet do not detract from the maximum effort stimulus accomplished elsewhere in the micro cycle
WTF are you talking about? Speed work done correctly and optimally requires a lot and there's a reason why it actually takes longer to recover from this than max effort work.
Apologies; that was unkind. We could either argue about it, which accomplishes nothing. Or we can get in the gym, train hard, and see what works for ourselves. I’m partial to the latter. Train how you like; America is the land of the free-do what brings you the most satisfaction and maximizes your happiness.
Speed work seems explosive to me . You need to train fast and slow twitch fibers to be the best . How you do that varies by individual and what you need and your body type and specs . Explosive power is more buildable they say
i'm with jm. i feel like when i bench a heavy weight, i'm moving it as fast as i possibly can. if the weight is too light and i try to do that, the momentum pulls me up off the bench, i don't think my body will allow the speed to increase if i'm already floating from it.
I think the speed work divide literally comes down to personal results. Some people do speed work and see great results, other people like myself do speed work and it does absolutely nothing. My advice would be just to try both and see if it works for you or not. For me, I suck at reps. They gas me the fuck out like no other, which is why I hate doing rep sets, but at the same time whenever I would grind as many heavy sets as I could, my heavy singles would shoot up between 20 to 40 lbs, so now I just do rep work every cycle cuz I know that's what keeps me growing. That, combined with near maximal sets too.
Makes some sense. When baseball players are warming up in the on-deck circle, they put a donut on their bat to make it heavier so when they’re at the plate the bat feels lighter and they can hopefully hit it farther. Baseball players don’t try to use a lighter bat and swing it as fast as possible hoping it’ll make their normal bat faster. Hard to say what’s actually correct
Louie said "you can't move max efforts slow" Just bc it moves slow doesnt mean the force behind it is slow. Example. Tug of war. Pull. Pull. Pull. Other side let's go and you go flying backwards. Because you were pulling fast but moving slow. JM is trying to think outside the box but speed work plays an important role. Especially for improving max effort since it improves neuromuscular drive and activation.
Same token Louie said “get stronger get fast”. So yes both do play a role. Example: Sprinters almost all train the endurance/volume side IE speed training. Put the opposite training stimulus and people tend to improve
This is not thinking outside the box. This is just normal thinking. Speed work really doesn't add anything to your training. The problem lies in the loading that is oftentimes used. If and when a very light weight is used, you simply CANNOT accelerate quickly enough. What you end up doing is actually slowing down during the movement, because the time for maximal acceleration is just too short for a human. Force = acceleration x mass. As everyone knows, adding mass equals more force just like acceleration does. What some fail to realize is that adding weight to the bar also enables you (a human being) to have time for maximal acceleration as well, which in essence means more mass = better maximal acceleration = more force.
I think he makes an excellent point. I use "speed work" to improve some of my strongman lifts and become a better athlete. However, his point about powerlifting is well-said. Specificity is the powerlifter's best friend.
There’s an inverse relationship between the speed of contraction and the amount of force produced by the contraction. That’s why dedicated “speed” work (really it’s power or strength speed in this context) does not contribute to more force production at least not directly. Using those days to accumulate volume for other reasons other than to increase acceleration is the juice from that squeeze. If the main goal is increasing absolute slow speed strength, tonnage trending upward for all your workouts should be the goal. Not really acceleration.
If anything it can be said that speed work trains how you want the weight to move. It’s not like max lifts are attempted slow they just end up that way because it’s a max lift. Meanwhile the lifter is trying to accelerate as fast as possible. Also speed work transfers to reinforcing correct form and in turn psychological confidence with the movement pattern.
It depends on the sport, for powerlifting of course speed does not matter, for armwrestling that I train, speed and explosiveness is a very determining factor at certain times and we are referring to a sport where strength is everything, but an explosive start and fast can give you the advantage to later focus on force and win. But in my day-to-day training I divide it like this: 40 minutes in the morning of specific training for armwrestling, technique, speed, 1 rep max, high repetitions with 50% of what I can load to bring blood to the tendons and strengthen them. My second workout in the afternoon is like any other, chest and back day, leg day and arm day. In the afternoon training I never focus on speed since it is only conditioning with progressive overload, since only training specific to armwrestling you will reach a point where without the support of large and strong muscles you will have a very marked limit but, of course that speed in training is a matter of the approach you want to achieve, martial artists prioritize speed and explosiveness over strength on all occasions, in calisthenics when you dominate your own weight, to continue improving you need to execute the same movements with speed and explosiveness, etc.
He said that people waste time doing speed work when they should be doing strength work, but the conjugate program combines the speed work with max effort work. You can’t do two max effort workouts per week for the same muscle groups, so what else would he suggest in place of the speed work?
From a physics point of view you want to minimize acceleration to maximize Mass. You need to impart just enough acceleration to get some velocity. So being explosive I think mis trains your CNS to overdrive at the beginning and under drive at the end. Kind of like dragster losing because he did a burn out and was not focused on a smooth long term acceleration.
He's taking the phrase "speed work" and interpreting it too literally. I always thought the point of speed work wasn't the actual speed of moving the weight, but instead to specifically train your fast twitch muscle fibers to be able to output greater force. So if I'm all the way down to training very specific groups of muscle fibers, then doesn't that follow the very "law of sports specificity" that Blakley is referring to?
He's saying you gotta lift slow weights. But he doesn't understand f=m•a m=your mass f=your force a=your acceleration so if you increase your body of your explosiveness then your force will increase
@@turtlespurples The force on the bar is not F = m * a ! It is actually F = m * (a+g) with g being the gravity of the earths pull. So you really need an extreme acceleration, something in the area of g = 9,81m/s² to make it work force wise. The fast twitching fiber idea sounds interesting...
It’s not an idea fast twitch fibers don’t fire slowly . Honestly just go do jumping that’s fast twitch . Do one plate explosively at the end. I hav a thirty inch vertical jump . I know that shit helps me on heavy deadlifts to get more
Really like what he says about total rep targets. I've done it on certain exercisses but never stuck with it properly. This has given me a jab to try it again and do it right. Both these guys have more experience in their big toe than i do in my entire body but for me, i find speed work works great on stubborn areas like calfs.
This sounds like the old-fashion double-progression method. Add reps until you hit your volume target, add weight, wash, rinse, repeat. You get a built-in (auto-regulated) deload whenever you move up to the next weight. The real trick is whether or not this implementation of double-progression truly does require you to be banging up against RPE 10 to try to get your 6 reps per set. Might be good to limit yourself to only adding so many extra reps per training session. Maybe go 4/4/4/4/4/4, 5/5/5/4/4/4, etc.
Look at the chart in Supertraining chart of the clean and it shows each phase of the lift and the type of strength required. If you have a bigger rate of force development it will get the load moving faster, faster movement = less grind
I get his point and to an extent I agree, but there is something to be said for compensatory acceleration. Dr. Squat did pretty well using it after all. I think, at the end of the day though, you have to find, and use, what works best for you. Never say always use this or that for what works can vary by the individual.
He just described the Hepburn Method. Dude in the 1950s decided on doing eight sets of triples. After you could do eight, you add weight, then do eight sets of doubles, and slowly build up to turning all eight sets of doubles into eight sets of triples. I used that for about 18 months and greatly improved my numbers.
@@mattzilla331 very true. A lot of generally seem to fall into the paralysis by analysis camp. I won't lie and say I've never done "speed work" but it was more a fun way for me to get more pattern work in with a mild conditioning aspect. And oddly enough bench with chains always seemed to loosen up my shoulders.
They're focusing on F=m x a as if "a" will create more force but for moving mass using our force to comparing speed is like a=F/m. It'll help to make you fast as long as "m" is constant but won't change the "F" value. You can't use this formula for building muscle in the human body. We are not a train leaving a station heading east on a collision course with another train heading west.
What JM is describing is step-loading. You get familiar and comfortable with some weight, like he says 36 reps required at it (6x6). Now it's not your 6 rep max anymore. You can do this in various ways 6x2-6x3-6x4 etc like in the famous Russian program until 6x6 and the it goes to sort of peaking but that's too long stretch, do 3-4 weeks then deload a bit and then go for 6x6 in the next block. Or if you got it already add weight. Speed work was West Side hypertrophy/light day with specificity really I guess in sense of what it was achieving. Every time you move the bar up you should move it up as fast as you can anyway, so speed work at 60% or something like that is mainly silly. JM is right. Better replace it with something smarter.
Might speed squats with lighter weight be better for your knees since the time under tension on the joint is less and the weight on the knee is less, but the effort and fiber recruitment for the muscle are more? Or would the weight appear the same to the joint since more force is required to move the weight faster, like if you were squating while standing on a force plate, if you move the weight faster then more force is transmitted to the plate, and more force is transmitted to your knees?
Every Vogelpohl squat , every Hoff bench , every Kennelly bench .Donnie Thompson says he’d NEVER miss speed work but if he had to miss max effort work it wouldn’t bother him nearly as much as ever missing speed .
Cool anecdote. At the end of the day it's different strokes for different folks. Personally, it makes way more sense to train for specificity otherwise why do compounds at all? Go do speed work on machines and some box jumps and you should be a God in no time, right?
My bench was stuck on 170kg for 2years. Then I introduced speed training and in 3 months I increased to 190kg. I've seen it's not for everyone, but it definitely is necessary for most
F=ma, my understanding of speed work is to try and achieve the same/or near the same amount of force you would on a max by reducing the mass component nd increasing the acceleration so that your nervous system does not get taxed but you are still putting in the same amount of work. If your max on any lift is lets say 315 lbf, the acceleration of this force comes from the weight itself so the acceleration is 32 ft/s and the mass is about 9.8 lbm. You can experience an equivalent force with something thats 50 percent of the mass lets say 4.9 lbm, but with double the acceleration.
But then you're not training time under load which completely changes the dynamic of the lift. In powerlifting, you're going to be grinding reps and that takes a specific kind of mental state and your breathing/bracing will be completely different. I would much rather train for what I'm going to be doing at max lifts than speed to try to mimic some equivalent output, especially when the sport doesn't call for speed. To each their own tho.
I’m so split, for the longest time my problem with bench was lockout and I threw bands on with lower weight and broke through the sticking point but half my working sets with the bands were grinders so what helped, those sets that were fast or the ones requiring maximal effort?
Don’t try to confuse yourself here. You did great work with the bands. Grinders can help with overall strength, but there is risk to the tissues and CNS overload. Always keep refining your technique. Bands and tricep work will improve your lockout over time. The rest is up to you and your genetics and plan. Good luck!
4:07 Ok, i see... but muscle fiber recruitment conditioning is the focus of speed work so that the 1RM can be maximized for speed AND for when it counts--when the grind happens, right?
As you build strenght the force increased in speed of output increased therefore the muscle will adapt to the weight and the muscle is condition to drive the the weight to move
People can get really strong through basic linear progression, 1st week is base, Progressively overload week 2, week 3, deload on 4th. Until that starts fucking up, don't change if it aint broke. All these different "methods" are all forms of progressive Overload. Just find what works best for your time and keep hammering at it.
If speed work doesn’t matter cuz we don’t lift a max attempt fast then should we lift our warms ups slowly to prepare for the speed of the max attempt?
Definitely look into Dr. Fred Hatfields CAT (Compensatory Acceleration Training.) Also look at Dr. Hatfields 1008 lb. squat (bar velocity is extremely fast). That being said, I do believe that in Powerlifting bar speed does not matter and the Force Velocity Curve proves this. Just throwing in some information and other training modalities to consider. After all, we are all trying to better ourselves in the sport of Powerlifting and strength training.
Correct. What JM means is still lift heavier weights explosively as possible but you’re not necessarily doing “speed” work. You’re lifting lighter to give your body rest from heavy loads while simultaneously adding in more volume which really gets you stronger overall while maxes get body used to heavyweight in actual meet settings
im not a speed work fan either. i just like lifting everything like it’s going to be a 1 rep max. if it goes up fast, that means i can add more weight.
Especially for beginners messing around with speed work is a huge opportunity cost. All those Russian athletes using conjugate were already strong and the Bulgarian system was what got them strong.
Thomas Pickel that’s not true for every lifter. Some guys are naturally explosive and move maximal weights much faster than the average person, but if you add 5 lbs to the bar they can’t budge it. One high school athlete I’ve seen deadlifts 650 as a max. It takes him about half a second from start to lockout. Extremely explosive. But 655 doesn’t budge. Why? Because he is naturally explosive but has a hard time moving weights slowly (grinding). It’s a difference in muscle fiber types, personality, CNS and many other factors. In the Soviet Union, they found that lifters were either “fast” or “strong,” meaning when they moved max or near max weights they relied on either fast strength or slow strength to complete their attempts. A more recent example is Julius Maddox. He blows up his attempts or he misses. If the bar slows down, he doesn’t get the lift. Not a knock, it’s just a difference in lifters. Greg Panora is a good example of a more “grindy “ lifter.
Yup it depends on the athlete. Some people just cant grind it either goes up fast or not at all. Then there are others that a lift will look like an rpe 10 and they'll grind up 3 more reps.
Kinda funny that I use both methods. I use blocks and I use "the numbers" One block could be focusing on my deadlift more. I do X*X (5*5, 6*4 or anything) But then I write down those numbers, and try to do better each week. As a strongman I kinda need that speed, but I get it that for powerlifters it's not the most important thing.
Sport specificity is one thing and there is certainly a case for it, BUT if we are actually considering the physiology of maximal bar velocity and the adaptations that take place from training with this intent how can you even argue there is no place for training for these adaptations from a neuromuscular level that lends itself to the bigger picture of getting stronger. Additionally, the synergy that DE training creates within the programming is another benefit.
Synergy is a buzz word that means nothing. At the end of the day, it's what works best for you. Specificity is logically sound and makes the most sense. If you want to get good at something, then do that thing with the intention of improving. If you do a variant, it doesn't mean you won't necessarily improve in the thing you're trying to actually improve but it certainly makes less sense. In the same way you wouldn't tell a boxer to do MMA for a few months to improve his boxing. Or a swimmer to do rock climbing. But hey, to each their own.
@@jasonbrowncoaching Bro, you're literally saying words without providing any substance or explanation. Explain the synergy you speak of; otherwise yes, it's just a buzzword that means nothing. You said a whole lot of nothing. Congrats.
I think he has a point F = mass X acceleration Say u r producing 10N force,,,,u can move a mass of 1kg with 10m/s² acceleration,. ,,,,say you want to move more weight ,,,,say 2kg,,,,, then your acceleration would go down to 5. Thus more weight ,,,less the speed or acceleration
But the whole point of speed work is not to increase acceleration, but force. By trying to move the bar quickly, you are training your explosive strength. Explosive strength is how much muscle fibers can you activate when you contract a muscle. Now by increasing your explosive power output, you increase the force you can output after you contract your muscles. So, by training speed work, you increase maximal force, which in turn increases acceleration(a=F/m)
@ryan rogers You are absolutely right. There are lots of ways to increase your force output. Just my looking at physics you could see that you can increase your moment force aswell as total force. It just comes down to the individual. At the end of the day, do what is fun for you.
That is not necessarily true , that's why there is optimal weights for dynamic effort. Most likely if you can move one kilogram with that acceleration you would be able to move 2 kilograms the same speed, it really depends on your strength limits. I may be wrong but I don't believe you can apply maximal Force if the weight is too light, or at least you can't find maximal / optimal power. Finding that optimal speed and strength curve, AKA power is what you are trying to do with Dynamic effort, you also need enough weight. Some people improve with different percentages than others as well. Also if the weight is proper you can apply maximal Force on submaximal weight which allows for more volume. It is like the comparison of throwing Wiffle ball or a baseball to break a window
JM hit this right on the nail. What I’ve been thinking for a long time roughly what he’s talking about. No timer goes off on a powerlifting platform to lift the weight fast. Goes up or it doesn’t.
So, the sport isn’t about how fast you press the weight up which is right but I’m sure if you could press your old 1rm with greater bar speed then it would mean you have a new 1rm which is the point of powerlifting?
Speed Work for me works on Bench I did 6 sets 3 then did heavy Close Grip Pr 300 for 10 the first 5 reps were lightning fast but Squat it does nothing for me
Speed work allows you to train everyday but still recover. The alternative is to take the day off or go full Bulgarian method which required the use of copious amounts of steroids to have a chance at recovering that quickly.
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I love that Dave kept his tongue bitten and just let him talk. He may be right, he may be wrong. What he says will work for some and not others. These ideas have to be out there for people to try, you shouldn't just blow down ideas just because it's not what you think.
@@dessertstorm7476 anecdotally , I know 2 powerlifters who won medals at IPF raw worlds using a type conjugate system but it had to be adapted so far from westside that it really wasn’t westside. Ie box squatting wasn’t done which is a massive part of the westside system , speed work was more like volume work in 65-75% range in 3 week waves and they practiced the competition lifts very often on ME days. I like many others have concluded the conjugate system is not optimal for raw powerlifting and if someone was thinking of running it they need to go to a proper powerlifting gym.
I understand the workout but sounds more like a work capacity workout, which is great. But, does he use bands, chains,? Does JM do board presses, floor presses and conjugate? Didnt sound like it based on his numbers . Numbers would all be different from flat bench, incline, floor. etc
If JM Blakely speaks, I will listen.
Why
To poor advice
I can find a 463 best raw bench. Is that true
@@eriknielsen6216 dude he benched over 600
@@sabertoothwallaby2937 cos he benches 700lb or somewhere close fool
This is how Brian Shaw would look once he gets bit older and loose weight..... all due respect to JM Blakely.
Damn man.. i can't unsee
Dave's trying not to get triggered.
So is everyone
Not even close. If any of you dumb fucks ever talked to DT he'll be first to tell you conjugate is the end all or is dynamic work the only way.
Sad people desperate for a fight. No man. Dave's face is it's standard take no shit misery self. This was a great discussion.
I get what you're saying. To me it seems he's asking the question for the audience who doesn't know better and to clarify for himself.
Basically you gotta learn how to grind...
the benefit of speed work is that it allows you to train with maximal intention without stressing the tissues to the same extent that a heavier load that requires the same forces to move would.
It doesn’t do anything magic, other than allow you to train more (because using heavy weight at high frequencies is not feasible).
Realistically in strength training, one should attempt to lift every rep as fast as possible, so the concept of speed specific work is silly.
Simply call it a light day, and it would be speed work. Because all reps should be moved as fast as possible
Pretty true.
Yep. That’s exactly what I always say about speed work. Every rep I’ve ever performed, I was driving the bar up as hard and fast as I could. Unless it was a tempo set that I was for some reason trying to slow down the eccentric, which wasn’t something I did very often at all.
Ironically, speed work can also lead to injuries. And if you're doing speed work to avoid injuries, then that's sort of counter productive. For example, I can't do speed work on deadlifts because it fires up something in my lower back and makes it painful. If I go slow and steady, I can lift the weight with no pain. So I train every weight at the same speed. If I didn't, I would be constantly irritating my lower back and slowing down progress, or worse yet, I would have injured myself beyond repair at this point.
Well said@@le1690
I love JM. Met him at worlds in worthington over 15 years ago. During the time I trained there this guy gave me so many life nuggets I can’t even keep track. When JM gets talking...listen. As good as he is with this stuff it’s dull compared to this guys general life advice and philosophical thoughts. You should do a podcast with him and just general banter.
Thanks for this superb interview, Dave. As others have said, it is much appreciated that you allow the interviewee to speak fully without interruptions (like other interviewers do).
I agree 100%!!! Warm up sets can be addressed with speed work while ramping up CNS for heavier sets that won’t move fast!!
Try the cns sets after heavy . I can deadlift 185 for fifty reps when I’m done lol
I feel that speed work lets my muscles recover, while I still train my nervous system with 40% of max. Mentaly drained, but physically i feel great.
A lot of excellent points here!!!
Agreed!
I’ve watched this four times in the last couple of months an every time mr Blakey impressed me more
You can cut the tension in the air! But he is right in some ways, alot of lifters dont use the conjugate system and do fine.
Because their system is conjugate. Not in the sense of me days and de days w supplement work and assesory work. But they still do conjugate.
@@turtlespurples give an example of what you mean by that
@@SquatBenDeadlift where they do things that increase their weakness. And they do sport specific gpp. And they train strength, hypertrophy, and maybe more depending
@@turtlespurples That's not really what conjugate is, the primary component of conjugate is using a ton of "variants" in order to max out without overtraining, that's what makes conjugate special. The other thing it does well is have a ton of hypertrophy but that's not really "conjugate" it's just something you should be doing. The speed work is kinda pointless imo.
@@turtlespurples Thats shit that every lifter does in basically every training system tf
By the way, Simmons says on several recent videos that speed squats should be done with 50-60% bar weight AND 25% net band tension.
Yep, 10% at the bottom and 25% at the top. Has worked wonders for me
These are gems 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
Nicely put together
That's what I've been doing. Pick a weight and progress on the reps up to a goal. For me, the range starts with my 5 rep-max and then I'm married to it, 5 sets to 0-2 RIR, until I can hit 30 reps straight. Takes care of strength in the 3-7 rep range, fast-twitch hypertrophy in the 8-15 rep range, and slow-twitch hypertrophy in the 15-30 range. The 15 to 30 push gives my joints time to calm down and is a solid time to cut. Coolest thing is that when you're done and repeat, your new 5 rep-max weight is about 50% more and the weight you used last cycle is now your warm-up.
Note: I'm not powerlifting (obviously), this is bodybuilder and long-term aesthetic focused. Works great though, and like JM said, you're always progressing.
Speed work has ALWAYS made me more explosive, my best competition bench was a speed rep and so will my next 😏
Yes, pretty sure you and Josh Bryant have proved speed work to equate to big lifts
swimhack you, Julius Maddox, Eric Spoto, Ryan Kenelly, George Halbert, Kenny Patterson, etc. The proof is in the methods.
@@Roadto-zb4vu Julius is a great example because he barely even has to lock out, he just throws it off his chest and it lands in his arms extended
Wait. Different methods work for different people? No way
if it was a speed rep then it wasn't a true max
The beauty of simplicity.
I've done this with great success with pushups in the past, and I still often do it to where I want to move something from a consistent XRM to a higher consistent XRM, even if I don't always need to hit it on every set. That's a lot of work to build up muscular endurance over many sets, which might not be worth it to you.
Absolutely takes everything this guy says as gold. We're all different physically and mentally tho, and for me if I don't train dynamic effort for my speed one night out the week I tend to fall off five or ten lbs instead of increasing slowing so I notice. But could be mental who knows
Plus speed work is also about active recovery and pr in some aspect not just 1rm. This is what I have taking away from speed work. I'm not a pro PL but for me speed work has been awesome for recovery and explosiveness just my opinion
JM is very well spoken, and very relaxing to listen to lol
Louie Simmons mentions the 6x6 protocol for bench press quite often, so it's not like this is conjugate sacrilege. He himself used this after learning about it from Larry Pacifico...
I like speed work alot. But I use push jerks, push press, etc along with different bench variations. I feel speed work on OHP movements are a must for me.
I have always viewed speed/dynamic-effort work as a day to work towards technical mastery with weights that aren't insignificant, yet do not detract from the maximum effort stimulus accomplished elsewhere in the micro cycle
WTF are you talking about? Speed work done correctly and optimally requires a lot and there's a reason why it actually takes longer to recover from this than max effort work.
Shane S. I’m not going to waste my time breaking it down for you. Reading and comprehension are perishable skills.
Apologies; that was unkind. We could either argue about it, which accomplishes nothing. Or we can get in the gym, train hard, and see what works for ourselves. I’m partial to the latter. Train how you like; America is the land of the free-do what brings you the most satisfaction and maximizes your happiness.
This guy is a damn philosopher. I could listen to him all day.
Speed work seems explosive to me . You need to train fast and slow twitch fibers to be the best . How you do that varies by individual and what you need and your body type and specs . Explosive power is more buildable they say
JM is an example Of hard worker, not overly bright or book smart but strong dude
Bro you can hear the intelligence in his voice. What are you talking about?
Interesting way to train. Adding reps in that way, I like that 👍🏻
i'm with jm. i feel like when i bench a heavy weight, i'm moving it as fast as i possibly can. if the weight is too light and i try to do that, the momentum pulls me up off the bench, i don't think my body will allow the speed to increase if i'm already floating from it.
I think the speed work divide literally comes down to personal results. Some people do speed work and see great results, other people like myself do speed work and it does absolutely nothing. My advice would be just to try both and see if it works for you or not.
For me, I suck at reps. They gas me the fuck out like no other, which is why I hate doing rep sets, but at the same time whenever I would grind as many heavy sets as I could, my heavy singles would shoot up between 20 to 40 lbs, so now I just do rep work every cycle cuz I know that's what keeps me growing. That, combined with near maximal sets too.
Makes some sense. When baseball players are warming up in the on-deck circle, they put a donut on their bat to make it heavier so when they’re at the plate the bat feels lighter and they can hopefully hit it farther. Baseball players don’t try to use a lighter bat and swing it as fast as possible hoping it’ll make their normal bat faster.
Hard to say what’s actually correct
Louie said "you can't move max efforts slow"
Just bc it moves slow doesnt mean the force behind it is slow.
Example. Tug of war. Pull. Pull. Pull. Other side let's go and you go flying backwards.
Because you were pulling fast but moving slow.
JM is trying to think outside the box but speed work plays an important role. Especially for improving max effort since it improves neuromuscular drive and activation.
They are Popping up all over the place ! Trying to Reinvent The Wheel!
Same token Louie said “get stronger get fast”. So yes both do play a role. Example: Sprinters almost all train the endurance/volume side IE speed training. Put the opposite training stimulus and people tend to improve
This is not thinking outside the box. This is just normal thinking. Speed work really doesn't add anything to your training.
The problem lies in the loading that is oftentimes used. If and when a very light weight is used, you simply CANNOT accelerate quickly enough. What you end up doing is actually slowing down during the movement, because the time for maximal acceleration is just too short for a human.
Force = acceleration x mass. As everyone knows, adding mass equals more force just like acceleration does. What some fail to realize is that adding weight to the bar also enables you (a human being) to have time for maximal acceleration as well, which in essence means more mass = better maximal acceleration = more force.
@@sm-qw9mj sounds like you are saying speed work is important... Speed work is Acceleration work
@@sm-qw9mj your second paragraph makes almost no sense
You sir are a legend 🙏
Interesting theory. I look at speed work as also a day to recover and refine technique.
I think he makes an excellent point. I use "speed work" to improve some of my strongman lifts and become a better athlete. However, his point about powerlifting is well-said. Specificity is the powerlifter's best friend.
There’s an inverse relationship between the speed of contraction and the amount of force produced by the contraction. That’s why dedicated “speed” work (really it’s power or strength speed in this context) does not contribute to more force production at least not directly. Using those days to accumulate volume for other reasons other than to increase acceleration is the juice from that squeeze. If the main goal is increasing absolute slow speed strength, tonnage trending upward for all your workouts should be the goal. Not really acceleration.
If anything it can be said that speed work trains how you want the weight to move. It’s not like max lifts are attempted slow they just end up that way because it’s a max lift. Meanwhile the lifter is trying to accelerate as fast as possible. Also speed work transfers to reinforcing correct form and in turn psychological confidence with the movement pattern.
Just watches a wenning video and he trained the sticking points with slow tempo so you can grind through the slow movement
Nah
It depends on the sport, for powerlifting of course speed does not matter, for armwrestling that I train, speed and explosiveness is a very determining factor at certain times and we are referring to a sport where strength is everything, but an explosive start and fast can give you the advantage to later focus on force and win. But in my day-to-day training I divide it like this: 40 minutes in the morning of specific training for armwrestling, technique, speed, 1 rep max, high repetitions with 50% of what I can load to bring blood to the tendons and strengthen them. My second workout in the afternoon is like any other, chest and back day, leg day and arm day. In the afternoon training I never focus on speed since it is only conditioning with progressive overload, since only training specific to armwrestling you will reach a point where without the support of large and strong muscles you will have a very marked limit but, of course that speed in training is a matter of the approach you want to achieve, martial artists prioritize speed and explosiveness over strength on all occasions, in calisthenics when you dominate your own weight, to continue improving you need to execute the same movements with speed and explosiveness, etc.
Great info.
He said that people waste time doing speed work when they should be doing strength work, but the conjugate program combines the speed work with max effort work. You can’t do two max effort workouts per week for the same muscle groups, so what else would he suggest in place of the speed work?
From a physics point of view you want to minimize acceleration to maximize Mass. You need to impart just enough acceleration to get some velocity. So being explosive I think mis trains your CNS to overdrive at the beginning and under drive at the end. Kind of like dragster losing because he did a burn out and was not focused on a smooth long term acceleration.
When the bar is moving it’s so much easier to move but a dead stop/grind rep is harder.
He's taking the phrase "speed work" and interpreting it too literally. I always thought the point of speed work wasn't the actual speed of moving the weight, but instead to specifically train your fast twitch muscle fibers to be able to output greater force. So if I'm all the way down to training very specific groups of muscle fibers, then doesn't that follow the very "law of sports specificity" that Blakley is referring to?
He's saying you gotta lift slow weights. But he doesn't understand f=m•a m=your mass f=your force a=your acceleration so if you increase your body of your explosiveness then your force will increase
@@turtlespurples
The force on the bar is not F = m * a !
It is actually F = m * (a+g) with g being the gravity of the earths pull.
So you really need an extreme acceleration, something in the area of g = 9,81m/s² to make it work force wise.
The fast twitching fiber idea sounds interesting...
It’s not an idea fast twitch fibers don’t fire slowly . Honestly just go do jumping that’s fast twitch . Do one plate explosively at the end. I hav a thirty inch vertical jump . I know that shit helps me on heavy deadlifts to get more
ok i did Westside style training all my adult life w/some success for a local schmuck-i'm gonna give Mr.Blakely's theory a test and see how it goes.
Really like what he says about total rep targets. I've done it on certain exercisses but never stuck with it properly. This has given me a jab to try it again and do it right.
Both these guys have more experience in their big toe than i do in my entire body but for me, i find speed work works great on stubborn areas like calfs.
Anyone ever heard of Doug Hepburn???
This sounds like the old-fashion double-progression method. Add reps until you hit your volume target, add weight, wash, rinse, repeat. You get a built-in (auto-regulated) deload whenever you move up to the next weight. The real trick is whether or not this implementation of double-progression truly does require you to be banging up against RPE 10 to try to get your 6 reps per set. Might be good to limit yourself to only adding so many extra reps per training session.
Maybe go 4/4/4/4/4/4, 5/5/5/4/4/4, etc.
Look at the chart in Supertraining chart of the clean and it shows each phase of the lift and the type of strength required. If you have a bigger rate of force development it will get the load moving faster, faster movement = less grind
Perhaps one doesn’t need specific speed work if they are training using compensatory acceleration ala Dr. Fred Hatfield
I get his point and to an extent I agree, but there is something to be said for compensatory acceleration. Dr. Squat did pretty well using it after all. I think, at the end of the day though, you have to find, and use, what works best for you. Never say always use this or that for what works can vary by the individual.
He just described the Hepburn Method. Dude in the 1950s decided on doing eight sets of triples. After you could do eight, you add weight, then do eight sets of doubles, and slowly build up to turning all eight sets of doubles into eight sets of triples. I used that for about 18 months and greatly improved my numbers.
It’s fascinating how the numbers are always so similar. Speed bench is 8 triples as well, but progression is very different.
Hepburn kicks ass. I have his book somewhere. Great read
I did something similar a long time ago with good success on incline bench. Just 10 sets instead of 8.
@@SalivatingGland its all you really need. Ppl make training WAY too complicated.
@@mattzilla331 very true. A lot of generally seem to fall into the paralysis by analysis camp. I won't lie and say I've never done "speed work" but it was more a fun way for me to get more pattern work in with a mild conditioning aspect. And oddly enough bench with chains always seemed to loosen up my shoulders.
They're focusing on F=m x a as if "a" will create more force but for moving mass using our force to comparing speed is like a=F/m. It'll help to make you fast as long as "m" is constant but won't change the "F" value. You can't use this formula for building muscle in the human body. We are not a train leaving a station heading east on a collision course with another train heading west.
What JM is describing is step-loading. You get familiar and comfortable with some weight, like he says 36 reps required at it (6x6). Now it's not your 6 rep max anymore. You can do this in various ways 6x2-6x3-6x4 etc like in the famous Russian program until 6x6 and the it goes to sort of peaking but that's too long stretch, do 3-4 weeks then deload a bit and then go for 6x6 in the next block. Or if you got it already add weight.
Speed work was West Side hypertrophy/light day with specificity really I guess in sense of what it was achieving. Every time you move the bar up you should move it up as fast as you can anyway, so speed work at 60% or something like that is mainly silly. JM is right. Better replace it with something smarter.
Might speed squats with lighter weight be better for your knees since the time under tension on the joint is less and the weight on the knee is less, but the effort and fiber recruitment for the muscle are more? Or would the weight appear the same to the joint since more force is required to move the weight faster, like if you were squating while standing on a force plate, if you move the weight faster then more force is transmitted to the plate, and more force is transmitted to your knees?
AMAZING MINDSET AND CONCEPTS
Regurgitation
Love the Toledo hat. 419!
Every Vogelpohl squat , every Hoff bench , every Kennelly bench .Donnie Thompson says he’d NEVER miss speed work but if he had to miss max effort work it wouldn’t bother him nearly as much as ever missing speed .
Cool anecdote. At the end of the day it's different strokes for different folks. Personally, it makes way more sense to train for specificity otherwise why do compounds at all? Go do speed work on machines and some box jumps and you should be a God in no time, right?
👍 great info bro,
My bench was stuck on 170kg for 2years. Then I introduced speed training and in 3 months I increased to 190kg. I've seen it's not for everyone, but it definitely is necessary for most
F=ma, my understanding of speed work is to try and achieve the same/or near the same amount of force you would on a max by reducing the mass component nd increasing the acceleration so that your nervous system does not get taxed but you are still putting in the same amount of work.
If your max on any lift is lets say 315 lbf, the acceleration of this force comes from the weight itself so the acceleration is 32 ft/s and the mass is about 9.8 lbm. You can experience an equivalent force with something thats 50 percent of the mass lets say 4.9 lbm, but with double the acceleration.
But then you're not training time under load which completely changes the dynamic of the lift. In powerlifting, you're going to be grinding reps and that takes a specific kind of mental state and your breathing/bracing will be completely different. I would much rather train for what I'm going to be doing at max lifts than speed to try to mimic some equivalent output, especially when the sport doesn't call for speed. To each their own tho.
Awesome!
I’m so split, for the longest time my problem with bench was lockout and I threw bands on with lower weight and broke through the sticking point but half my working sets with the bands were grinders so what helped, those sets that were fast or the ones requiring maximal effort?
Don’t try to confuse yourself here. You did great work with the bands.
Grinders can help with overall strength, but there is risk to the tissues and CNS overload. Always keep refining your technique.
Bands and tricep work will improve your lockout over time. The rest is up to you and your genetics and plan. Good luck!
4:07 Ok, i see... but muscle fiber recruitment conditioning is the focus of speed work so that the 1RM can be maximized for speed AND for when it counts--when the grind happens, right?
Ya speed isolation on weak points adding extra something to help where nothing is
As you build strenght the force increased in speed of output increased therefore the muscle will adapt to the weight and the muscle is condition to drive the the weight to move
People can get really strong through basic linear progression, 1st week is base, Progressively overload week 2, week 3, deload on 4th. Until that starts fucking up, don't change if it aint broke. All these different "methods" are all forms of progressive Overload. Just find what works best for your time and keep hammering at it.
If speed work doesn’t matter cuz we don’t lift a max attempt fast then should we lift our warms ups slowly to prepare for the speed of the max attempt?
I will agree rate of force production can be better accumulated using different means. Hard to accurately explain biomechanics verbally.
Dave's face though 😅😅
But how long would you do 6x6 before switching to 6x3? And then how long 6x3 before the meet?
Definitely look into Dr. Fred Hatfields CAT (Compensatory Acceleration Training.) Also look at Dr. Hatfields 1008 lb. squat (bar velocity is extremely fast). That being said, I do believe that in Powerlifting bar speed does not matter and the Force Velocity Curve proves this. Just throwing in some information and other training modalities to consider. After all, we are all trying to better ourselves in the sport of Powerlifting and strength training.
The bar might appear to be moving slow, but there’s nothing slow about your CNS and muscles when lifting a max weight.
is that the red dead redemption font on the thumb nail?
It doesn’t mean that training explosively doesn’t help you raise your strength...
Correct. What JM means is still lift heavier weights explosively as possible but you’re not necessarily doing “speed” work. You’re lifting lighter to give your body rest from heavy loads while simultaneously adding in more volume which really gets you stronger overall while maxes get body used to heavyweight in actual meet settings
JM the goat
I wonder what JM's opinion is on heavy strength training for sprinters!
I like the 6x6 idea. How much rest in between sets?
3:37 "You can't get any slower than stopping"
Just remember that next time you run into a solid object. Just remember it.
You heard it here first.
LoL
Would this be considered brief maximal tension?
im not a speed work fan either. i just like lifting everything like it’s going to be a 1 rep max. if it goes up fast, that means i can add more weight.
Why isn’t there a league that times the lifts as well as the load? That’d be interesting
I agree with this. If you do any volume training at all most of those reps are speed reps.
Especially for beginners messing around with speed work is a huge opportunity cost. All those Russian athletes using conjugate were already strong and the Bulgarian system was what got them strong.
Practicing speed exercises enhance your motor units and nervous system.
So does practicing the movement with heavy load.
Training for strength is cool, but to be overall athletic, then you gotta train speed
aeric661 athletic is not the powerlifters goal
cliff onator you mean athleticism is not a powerlifters goal*
cliff onator speed training trains motor unit recruitment and the nervous system which is beneficial for any lift
Speed HELPS
It is not zero, there are some max efforts I have seen that moved fast. Ray Williams squats come to mind.
Benedikt Magnusson's world record deadlift also in that category
Thomas Pickel that’s not true for every lifter. Some guys are naturally explosive and move maximal weights much faster than the average person, but if you add 5 lbs to the bar they can’t budge it.
One high school athlete I’ve seen deadlifts 650 as a max. It takes him about half a second from start to lockout. Extremely explosive. But 655 doesn’t budge. Why? Because he is naturally explosive but has a hard time moving weights slowly (grinding). It’s a difference in muscle fiber types, personality, CNS and many other factors. In the Soviet Union, they found that lifters were either “fast” or “strong,” meaning when they moved max or near max weights they relied on either fast strength or slow strength to complete their attempts.
A more recent example is Julius Maddox. He blows up his attempts or he misses. If the bar slows down, he doesn’t get the lift. Not a knock, it’s just a difference in lifters.
Greg Panora is a good example of a more “grindy “ lifter.
@@Roadto-zb4vu Some people are diesel trucks (slow and powerful )and muscle cars (fast and powerful).
Sidney Bales exactly
Yup it depends on the athlete. Some people just cant grind it either goes up fast or not at all. Then there are others that a lift will look like an rpe 10 and they'll grind up 3 more reps.
Kinda funny that I use both methods. I use blocks and I use "the numbers"
One block could be focusing on my deadlift more.
I do X*X (5*5, 6*4 or anything)
But then I write down those numbers, and try to do better each week.
As a strongman I kinda need that speed, but I get it that for powerlifters it's not the most important thing.
That's it! New sport, Speedlifting
jm da man
Sport specificity is one thing and there is certainly a case for it, BUT if we are actually considering the physiology of maximal bar velocity and the adaptations that take place from training with this intent how can you even argue there is no place for training for these adaptations from a neuromuscular level that lends itself to the bigger picture of getting stronger. Additionally, the synergy that DE training creates within the programming is another benefit.
Synergy is a buzz word that means nothing. At the end of the day, it's what works best for you. Specificity is logically sound and makes the most sense. If you want to get good at something, then do that thing with the intention of improving. If you do a variant, it doesn't mean you won't necessarily improve in the thing you're trying to actually improve but it certainly makes less sense. In the same way you wouldn't tell a boxer to do MMA for a few months to improve his boxing. Or a swimmer to do rock climbing. But hey, to each their own.
@@le1690 how training sessions interact with each other is a buzzword? Roger. Thanks for the insight.
@@jasonbrowncoaching Bro, you're literally saying words without providing any substance or explanation. Explain the synergy you speak of; otherwise yes, it's just a buzzword that means nothing. You said a whole lot of nothing. Congrats.
This guy is Brian Shaw's older, but smaller brother or it's Brian Shaw in 15 or so years. Also interesting, his glasses are regular size glasses.
I think he has a point
F = mass X acceleration
Say u r producing 10N force,,,,u can move a mass of 1kg with 10m/s² acceleration,. ,,,,say you want to move more weight ,,,,say 2kg,,,,, then your acceleration would go down to 5.
Thus more weight ,,,less the speed or acceleration
But the whole point of speed work is not to increase acceleration, but force. By trying to move the bar quickly, you are training your explosive strength. Explosive strength is how much muscle fibers can you activate when you contract a muscle. Now by increasing your explosive power output, you increase the force you can output after you contract your muscles. So, by training speed work, you increase maximal force, which in turn increases acceleration(a=F/m)
@ryan rogers You are absolutely right. There are lots of ways to increase your force output. Just my looking at physics you could see that you can increase your moment force aswell as total force. It just comes down to the individual. At the end of the day, do what is fun for you.
That is not necessarily true , that's why there is optimal weights for dynamic effort. Most likely if you can move one kilogram with that acceleration you would be able to move 2 kilograms the same speed, it really depends on your strength limits. I may be wrong but I don't believe you can apply maximal Force if the weight is too light, or at least you can't find maximal / optimal power. Finding that optimal speed and strength curve, AKA power is what you are trying to do with Dynamic effort, you also need enough weight. Some people improve with different percentages than others as well. Also if the weight is proper you can apply maximal Force on submaximal weight which allows for more volume. It is like the comparison of throwing Wiffle ball or a baseball to break a window
@@vikingstrongman5903 agreed, it seems the effective percentages for speed benching are lower than those of the squat and deadlift
That is true. Thank you. He has a valid point. He's talking about a true max effort and absolute strength.
JM hit this right on the nail. What I’ve been thinking for a long time roughly what he’s talking about. No timer goes off on a powerlifting platform to lift the weight fast. Goes up or it doesn’t.
Speed also helps to not overtrain.
So he talks about an 1x frequency in each of the main lifts??
Gotta be honest, speed work really sucks for getting better at technique. It is good for recovery and getting faster tho
So, the sport isn’t about how fast you press the weight up which is right but I’m sure if you could press your old 1rm with greater bar speed then it would mean you have a new 1rm which is the point of powerlifting?
Speed Work for me works on Bench I did 6 sets 3 then did heavy Close Grip Pr 300 for 10 the first 5 reps were lightning fast but Squat it does nothing for me
Speed work allows you to train everyday but still recover. The alternative is to take the day off or go full Bulgarian method which required the use of copious amounts of steroids to have a chance at recovering that quickly.