The Truth about Theming...
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- Theming is an aspect of a park that is universally recognized as positive. The more theming you have, the more immersive the ride or area. But is that always the case?
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Outro: Ice and Fire - King Canyon
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I feel like FLY is more intended to be a scenery object itself in that world than being themed for the coaster (wow that was a complex sentence)
Makes sense!
I think phantasialand is a special case in terms of theming, they build worlds not rides. (yes they also have rides but the modern additions all have been ''worlds'') They are more creating a whole world where the coaster is just a part off, and where you can imagine it could extend much further then you see.
Where as Karnan or Baron 1898 are jus that, a ride with theming. The main part of the story or theme is the ride itself. This is a completely other approach to theming, its using the framework of the ride to theme and not placing the ride a theme if that makes sense.
Makes sense!
Given my home park is BGW, I’ve been able to see how different aspects/levels of theming can like affect different experiences
For example, Pantheon is literally someone’s RCT2 coaster: Plop a thrilling ride on an empty plot of land & open it . . . There isn’t much in terms of atmosphere, so it does just feel lackluster (especially considering you’re at BGW, which prides itself on aesthetics)
Comparatively, Alpengeist has queue, station, and (some) on-ride theming which really pushes the ski-lift effect & the ride experience (the cabins/snow trenches act like foot-choppers) . . . You feel more like “Hey, I’m in some ski lodge thing & not a sad shack of a station building 🧚🏻♀️✨😀”
I do recognize they’re both products of their time (Alpengeist was built in ‘97, so BGW was a bit more “theme-centric” than the more modern Pantheon [this sorta appears with Griffon as well, yet InvadR was themed pretty well]), but it’s still interesting to note
Wonderful video of course! Only complaint is there are no fun description shenanigans :
Okay, let me clear this out a little bit. The thing that Phantasialand does with all their theming is give people the feeling as if they would enter an entire new world when they get into certain parts of the park. The theming is not made for the coasters but for the areas of the park itself... they have to make the coasters go through all the theming because the don't have a lot of space to build them because the park is surrounded by the city it's layed in, and the fact that they manage to do this perfectly almost every time is just spectacular...
Yeah, I talk about that a lot in my European ranking video.
Great video, Merlin could be an entirely different video lmao
This is the only video youve made that I didn't like, just my opinion, but i think your completely wrong entirely, FLY is in a much more compact ride so instead of just goingover itself, you go over beatiful buildings and NEAR MISSES, there near misses, sure,karnans queue is better than flys, there is NOTHING on karnan! Its in a field for gods sake they could have added near misses and loads of stuff, karnans theme improves it, but flys theming makes it elite. Just my opinion but your just wrong.
Makes sense why you didn't like the video; it's an opinion piece and you don't agree with my opinion. I see where you're coming from, but I personally disagree. Just my opinion tho :)
@@Coaster_Critic yeah I wasn't trying to start an argument so I put my opinion
@@Coastersnoot😰
@@Mononoke18 💅
can’t really say just my opinion but then say but you’re just wrong.
Sounds alot like you prefer pre shows and queue themeing over actually themeing the ride. Fair opinion but the way you worded it is inaccurate. In my opinion F.L.Y definitely has better themeing than karnan. Its like comparing a real place to a book. You can experience the themeing in one, you are told in the latter
Makes sense, but I think what makes Karnan work is that it focuses more on story than atmosphere.
Phantasialand is just different because it doesn't create a story or world around a ride as theming, but rather it creates rides within a world. Rookburgh isn't meant to be 'the theming around FLY'. FLY is merely a part of that world.
I really like this thought! Unfortunately, though, that means that the theming isn't focused on the coaster itself but rather the space around it.
@@Coaster_Critic why is that unfortunate? it doesnt really make a difference what the basis is just that its there or not
Why does your intro hit so hard😂
My opinion:
I don't like when a ride hits me over the head with "story", because it put's the reride-value down for me. Examples are something like Baron 1898 or most Disney stuff. (Baron is bearable for me, since I don't speak dutch, so I can tune it out.) Especially if it's supposed to be a one time event and then you see train after train leaving.
I like when a ride interacts with a themed land and is allowed to exist for itself, like most rides at my home park, Phantasialand, do. There is a story to Winjas or Taron or Black Mamba, it's just more hidden. There's no pre-show detailing the story line, no onride audio. There are start sounds, great soundtracks and great theming everywhere.
Especially fly is the most realistic one. An arrail company that offers an authentic flying experience in a big city. Everything seems like the procedure of taking a special flight in a special airport
I can agree with that; oftentimes when I go on coasters I’ve ridden a lot, I kinda just want to skip the parts before the ride and get to the layout itself.
I love theming and a story behind a ride, i feel it really makes the full package....love a good pre show too
4:22 I miss that stupid bell so much 🥲. Also, even though I do somewhat agree with your points one of the things you did not bring up is how goddamn ugly Karnan's tower is. It looks like a 2d cardboard cutout imo, with its repeating brick texture. I think Karnan's queue is amazing, but the tower itself is really ugly and definitely ruins the skyline of the park.
One more thing, from a pure coaster perspective Karnan is simply a lot more thrilling than FLY, which I believe will also make enthusiasts lean towards Karnan more even if it's subconsciously. Imagine if you had Karnan's queue on an underwhelming B&M dive like Baron 1898, would you still like it as much? Idk man.
I really like the look of the tower. And for me, taking the rides out of the equation, I’d rather experience every part of Karnan except the layout than every part of FLY except the layout.
Good vid! I finally rode Superman UF at SFoG, supposedly better due to the terrain use, it was all a blur going by in front of your face. I had hopes that FLY might solve all issues with the flying coaster and it appears better (no loops or on your back) but also constricted by the space and not at all the ultimate possible flyer.
My opinion is that queue is the best way to theme, and I believe that most of the theming money should go into the queue because sometimes the queue makes up half of an entire theme park experience, long queues can completely ruin a theme park experience. Having queue theming really does make a park experience so much better. Having theming during the ride itself is nowhere near as important, it’s still great though. Queue theming is something that should be the standard IMO while ride theming should just be an extra.
Great points!
Hard agree.It's what Europa Park does really well imo. Their coasters themselves don't actually have a lot of theming, but the queues are always very detailed, which is far more important imo.
depends on the type of ride though. some rides are based on theming
For thrillseekers I believe the ride can be 10/10 without theming at all. So in my eyes theming is a bonus, but a very welcome one. The thing with FLY for me is then, that the ride experience is too weak. That's why I perceive it's massive theming as an "aggressive" attempt to impress. Kind of like showing a presentation with fancy style and animation but without delivering useful info.
But that's just my perception of it.
I agree! I felt FLY relied too heavily on its theming to carry the ride.
My perception is the same but I accepted that at the very end fly was never thought to be intense, it's more a cinematic experience and for the goal it has, fly does it pretty well
Imagine Fly without its onride theming…
F.L.Y. goes for atmosphere, karnan goes for story.
2 different sides but but both beautifull.
Personally i prefer F.L.Y. for its beauty but each its own thing.
Thank god I’m not the only one who thinks FLY’s theming is overrated. The views of the ride from the hotel are great but from ground level the whole area just kind of feels cold and empty. I think the main reason for that is the lack of foliage around the area. Taron feels much more well themed in my opinion, the whole area feels so varied and unique.
TLDR, rookburgh is just brick walls
Sadly I think there was not enough space to make it more varied. Rookburgh really is one of the smallest lands in a theme park but I think the objective of phantasialand is to make the paths, queue and coaster theming one thing. Everything fits in itself perfectly
Honestly, I love Rookburgh as a whole, but FLY seems like just an extension of it. I don’t feel it’s different enough from the rest of the land to stand out among its surroundings.
@@Coaster_Critic Fly and rookburgh are designed to be one thing together. Phantasialand doesn't have enough space to make a land with a coaster in it. The land and the coaster are one thing
HE- HE- HE- HELL NAW
i do not want to see you in my comments section
why is the comment so horrible
I feel like karnan and fly are too different to be compared. Fly wants to create an atmosphere, not a story and it does that pretty well. The scenery during the layout is necessary as fly does not have an intense layout. Its more like a cinematic experience. The whole point of phantasialand is making the walkway, queue and coaster one thing, not separated. As i said its complicated comparing them as the entirety of phantasialand has a different concept fro other parks
one coaster that i really dont like for its theming is the smiler at alton towers, its just a metal spider in a concrete pit
That definitely has the same sort of atmospheric feeling as FLY, but I personally like the unique idea behind it (even if the ride itself isn’t great).
@@Coaster_Critic your opinions on the smiler are literally irrelevant, you prefer rita to it, you do not matter as far as towers is concerned
this is an opinion i have been trying to find someone else to agree on me with, you hit the nail on the head with karnan and FLY (and all other rides at phl, except maybe mystery castle). karnan is a masterpiece in my opinion, and out of the rides ive ridden, only RTH beats it, and it's close. it's also why i preferred europa park over phantasialand (even before voltron). the atmosphere and immersion in europa park was just so much better than phantasialand, despite being less visually impressive. the queue is AS important as the ride, and very few parks seem to understand that and pull it off well
I agree that you can get really creative with telling a story with theming. But in my opinion there's also a problem coming with that, and that is parks overdoing the storytelling and leaving not much space for your own imagination. And I think Disney is a good example of a company that does this wrong. Their theming is beautiful and full of detail, but it's also like a big blockbuster movie that's shoving the story down your throat with animatronics instead of giving you visual clues and have your brain connecting the pieces of the puzzle.
This is also why I thought Phantasialand's theming was so refreshing to me. I know it's not a fair comparison because the approach of both these parks is way different, but within their approach you're not spectating a story or scenario, you're part of it like you're entering a different world. And that's what makes Phantasialands theming so immersive to me.
ive litterally had someone tell me that theming a ride ruins it. had someone else say the name makes or breaks the whole experience for them
Yeah, I've heard different people have different opinions on how important it is
With Phantasialand bein my home park, A LOT of theme parks have disappointed me so far. The ones I actually liked were obviously all the Disney and Universal parks in Florida, and Efteling. Otherwise, even Europa Park does not and probably will never be on the same level as Disney-Universal-Phantasialand-Efteling. To sum it up: My jaw was on the floor during the ENTIRE video (Obviously I do respect different opinions though :D )
I feel like our opinions can absolutely be influenced by what we're used to.
I think its mainly like story vs scenery:
Karnan tells you a story.
FLYs story is made by the riders themselves.
(Karnan rant)
Aside from that I just cant say i like Karnans theming. The whole experience is the most frustrating coaster ride ever:,
The queue is pitch black and you cant see a thing, next youre not allowed to ride with glasses even with a strap. This means everything from that point could be beautifully themed but anyone like me just cant see because its all a blur anyways. And the row selection just sucks because you would have to try 10x if you want a specific row. All that together just makes me scratch my head as to why people like Karnans theming and ride experience.
I agree with story vs scenery, and I can absolutely see how Karnan's queue could be inconvenient with that rule.
Its outside of the fysical experience indeed and instead on the communicative experience
Totally agree with you
@@wimberkers6901 you got dementia or are you just replying to yourself intentionally
@@beann1 intentional hha
While I am a huge fan of Karnan (my rank #5, FLY is currently #19), what makes it so good is something you simply cannot pull off in just any park. The way its story is told limits the ride's capacity so severely, it couldn't work at a Universal-level park, or even Phantasialand, the wait time would be multiple hours all day long. Karnan is a masterpiece, but it's definitely not a good example of 'how to theme a roller coaster' in my opinion
Makes sense, but even considering that, the line moved really fast when I was there.
In my personal opinion i think F.L.Y. and Phantasialand are a class of its own (along with disney and universal) they focus moreso on the theming and it truely enhanced my experience. I tended to que for the normal que on F.L.Y. and still got front row seats 2/8 rides i took (i got lucky), but the near miss elements and true emersion is top notch. They dont aim for record breakers but overall enjoyment. Karnan on the otherhand (from what ive heard) is just a extreme thrill coaster. To truely compare the two id have to ride it but that might still be a while. Maybe a good comparison would be Konda from walibi belgium since it has decent theming in the que/station/plaza but none onride and without a question i prefer F.L.Y. over Konda. Both have their charm but F.L.Y. theming makes the coaster better. Thats my opinion and i also see why you have your opinion. Different have different tastes at the end of the day.
Yeah, I'd say Karnan's theming is MUCH better than Kondaa's, though. What Karnan does really well is tell a story.
As someone who loves FLY to much is that FLYs que is just... yeah, FLYs station and etc is nice though, a nice thing would have been pre shows but its still ok
It doesn't really need one, fly does not tell a story
@@flipperion I know, it doesnt, and thats, kinda sad
@@Chaoshero5567 no fly's goal is to create an ambience. The whole area feels like a city where an arrail company has opened a flying machine for entertainment. All the security stuff and atmosphere inside the station feels real. It's one of the few coasters that finally brought the concept of "this would actually make sense if it existed"
@@flipperion i know mate... i know what the goal is, i still think a story would been nice,
But like, this my #1 and at my Homepark, i am just nitpicky...
@@Chaoshero5567 lucky you to have the mighty phantasialand as home park. Have a ride on Taron for me I guess. One small question, is it true that the last row of fly has bonecrushing positive GS and front row good airtime? When I went there I could only go in midrow and it was kind of disappointing.
Didn’t know this was an unpopular opinion or that there were this many FLY fanboys lol
Karnan > FLY for both theming and the ride itself.
Finally someone that agrees with me haha
I, personally, disagree with your take on F.L.Y. In my eyes F.L.Y is the perfect ride (and if it had onboard audio it would've been a 11/10). My philosophy surrounding themed rides is that, your ride vehicle ought be a transport method in your themedworld. I will use F.L.Y as an example. The theming of F.L.Y is not just a steampunk city, it is stated to be a Flyport, comparable to an airport, thus the rides of the ride are boarding what is, essentially in the world of F.L.Y, an aeroplane. They state that you are boarding an method of transport that is not from this world, they realize a dream of flying, something I consider the pinnacle of escapism. To bring people, with the aid of attractions, technology and theming, to a different world, to let them experience something they would not be able to otherwise, to escape the real world, albeit for 5 minutes. I came to this realization when I rode Taron right there after. In Taron they do not state what you board, they do not state what it is you are riding. You can make it up yourself, true. But to me taron will always feel like a very good (themed) ride, a roller coaster. Whilst I consider F.L.Y to be an experience and not just a good ride.
Makes sense, but for extreme coasters, I feel like more of the focus should be on the thrilling aspects of the ride itself.
Theming is expensive
I'm more of a thrill over theme guy but Hagrid's themeing got me floored. I do agree while Velocicoaster has great surroundings and it's my #1 but I do agree that you fly through it way too quickly to focus on the themeing.
ur just yappin
🤫🧏
I respectfully disagree with your opinion on Karnan vs FLY. I’ve ridden both. Rookburgh’s theming is so immersive and detailed you are utterly absorbed within its steampunk fantasy. And FLY just blends in seamlessly, its graceful flight around the compact ground as magical as it gets.
Karnan, on the other hand, leaves me cold and detached. The theming is sparse, concentrated only in the queue area. That imposing tower and its awe-inspiring drop aside, I don’t think you can call it an elite theming at all. You’re confusing ride quality with theming. Granted Karnan has several tricks up its sleeves and it’s a more intense experience, but nothing about its theming measures up.
What makes Karnan work better (for me) is that its theming IS concentrated, and instead of being mushed up with the layout, it’s able to shine outside of it.
I couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s kinda hypocritical to say fly’s theming didn’t impress you as much as you hoped while then immediately starting to praise a coaster which theming is exclusively kept inside the station and lift. Sure, it has more of a story but that story completely falls flat when you spend the majority of the ride on a boring grass field.
“Fly’s queue and theming is more a sensational feeling than a feeling of awe.” Hard no. There is nothing more jawdropping than stepping into rookburgh for the first time, seeing the coaster fly past and being fully immersed into the area. Something the simple field of Karnan fails to accomplish.
The fact you call out FLY’s system for using lockers and choosing a row is a fair point I guess. I personally don’t mind the way they handle the front row queue because at the end of the day the wait time is the same. It doesn’t really matter wether you wait the 30 minutes before or after the lockers. As for the row selection itself. I way prefer being able to ask for a row than being assigned one like on karnan.
“There is nothing more jaw dropping than stepping into Rookburgh for the first time, seeing the coaster fly past and being fully immersed into the area.” That’s my point, FLY as a coaster hardly does anything to expand on the land it’s in. And yeah, the space of land around Karnan isn’t great, but that doesn’t matter because of its overall immersion.
theme
theme
theme
Can we please Normalisie Not using footage of Kärnarn that Comedy before 2016??? It MAKEN the Ride Seem not as Good With that pale white tower
All the off-ride footage of Karnan used in this video was filmed after 2016.
So during the season of 2017? Thats weird because theming was completed then and the tower was not white anymore.