imagine getting queued up against the SaffronOlive and you think "ooh wonder what jank he's playing today" and it's the same deck youve faced every other game of the day.....
im playing reanimator with ulamog and sphinx mindbreaker , im always happy if im gettin this decks. sadly ive just seen that deck twice. ( im flooded by mono blue and goblins)
It's nice to watch Seth play meta decks once in a while. Brings some perspective that just because he likes to plays "janky" decks doesn't mean he doesn't understand how to play the meta decks. Reminds me of when commentators complimented Seth on his plays when he was in Modern Super League with and against other pros. The man plays enough "jank" that that's all the practice he needs.
Kind of a strange comment, seeing as Seth misplayed quite a lot this video. He's not a bad player for sure, but I don't think this video was the best showcase for that.
@@thedarkemissary "Aug 24, 15:30 UTC Scheduled - We will be performing scheduled maintenance on August 24 at approximately 8:30 a.m. PT (15:30 UTC) to deploy the 1.11.00.02 game update (card legality update for Historic). Maintenance is expected to last approximately one hour."
As someone who plays aggro, an archetype notoriously good against slow controlling decks, I can tell you this deck beats me a pretty large portion of the time. I need to draw incredible well and they need to not draw hour of promise or uro for me to have a shot.
Feel the exact same way. I play wb vamp aggro & if I don't win by turn 4 the game is over Even wit strong early pressure & decent reach it just feels like none of it matters wit how easily field decks generate value
Play decks like mengucci's mono rogue red aggro which has ferocidon, cheap burn spells, fliers and 8 damage lands or BR aggro which uses ashiok in the main to fuel kroxa. Or black aggro which has fliers (6 - 8) and flying(2-4) enchantments along with ashiok and thoughtsieze. Field is not too hard to manage if you play with the right decks
Pretty much the defense of every broken deck in any format begins with "it is not completely impossible to beat" and then usually ends with suggesting a bunch of insanely narrow cards that nobody in their right mind wants to be playing.
but brewing wise, blood sun, thassa plus deputy of detention, virulent plague, trespassers curse, ferocidon all get shut down by ugin. A land later goodnight. Playing necromentia/lost legacy/ unmoored ego doesn't take a dropped field off the table
@@hydra66 everytime you play a hatecard against this deck you spend a card to beat a land, leaving them with a normal rampdeck, that is not really a good option
Should Field of the Dead be banned from Historic? Short answer: Yes. Long answer: Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
Field of the dead is a card that looks safe when you first see it, seven or more other lands is a lot to ask but then once it gets into real formats and is tested you see it is broken. That isn't really anyone's fault, the issue is when pride makes you not ban it.
I mean, thats drfinitely wizards fault since theyre supposed to have people playtesting these cards to make sure theyre not busted. If the only metric for releasing cards was "does it look reasonable at face value" this game would be even more of a shitshow than it is ban-wise. Though with wizards releasing tef3ri, oko, and fires in quick succession maybe that is their only metric >.
@@gabrielamaro1470 tell that to everyone who lost to a Muxus being played on an empty board and died to the following attack. All they need to hit is a haste giver + Krenko and it's over.
Monsieur Generalissimo they’re not guaranteed to hit haste enablers though. It’s always a gamble on what gets hit. Besides that there are ways to stop him both in terms of hate cards and interaction. Grafdigger’s Cage completely shuts Muxus down, and hitting key goblins with spot removal spells also stops the big swing for long enough to sweep or win once your turn comes around. It’s not as broken as people make it out to be.
@@gabrielamaro1470 That means you have to run a deck with removal. A lot of it, draw said removal and have hate cards. Which all is a void argument in Bo1 anyway. So what? It's almost the same argument with FotD. There is Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin and Narset almost shuts the entire deck down. That said Golbins have 8 haste enablers and even card that can fetch out those.
@@RiseInAfterlife Not necessarily. I was mentioning direct ways to deal with Muxus, but some strategies can totally race him. The U/W aura deck comes to mind, since with the right combination of auras, Kor Spiritdancer becomes a vigilant lifelinker with tons of power, allowing you to stay ahead of their damage. R/B Aggro/Pyromancer can use cards like Priest, Claim the Firstborn to remove goblins and also can race fast with the Claim // Fame Archfiend's Vessel synergy. But anyway, why would we even be talking about BO1? It's never been a competitive format and never will be. The lack of a sideboard means that certain matchups will almost always be unwinnable unless you have a wishboard with Karn/Fae of Wishes, or maindeck hate that doesn't make your actual strategy less consistent with its inclusion.
At 20:45 seth missed an opportunity to cast Explore. Could have explored, tapping temur triome and field, putting Forest in to play, then cast Languish off Hollow/Catacombs/Island/Forest. Think theres a 0% chance it mattered though.
I love that he actually played what’s generally considered the best deck in a format. He makes good enough janky decks to do well so it was sweet to see him play a top tier deck in contrast. Field will be banned. I like lands decks but it’s just too easy to abuse
When fotd was in standard I was playing grixis control, the combo of unmoored ego, flame sweep, and big Chandra was actually pretty solid. vs FotD....but Uro didn't exist and thoughtseize wasn't legal
It would be harder, would be much more reliant on getting to seven lands for Field of the Dead super quick, which would still happen in Hour of Promise games, but in other games aggro would have a much better shot.
@@MTGGoldfish I saw Mengucci beat the shit out of three Field decks the other day with a UB tap out control. Necromentia did it along with Field of Ruin. But, honestly, it's tap out control, y'know... Feels almost like cheesing it.
Yeah honestly uro should have probably hit the ban list as well recently, its ramp, card draw, lifegain and a wincon all wrapped up in one nice neat bundle. Makes krasis look like its sitting at the kiddie table
@@marlowemouse Plus, you can fit it in pretty much any UG/X ramp and it will still probably be the single most profitable card. Like you said, it's three mana for draw, +3, and another land drop. Field is downright fantastic right now, but the deck is named after it.
Yes, emphatically. You know there's a problem when your opponent dumps their whole hand onto the field in a single turn, you draw Ugin, and decide you don't even need him.
seth when opp draws a 4-of that's part of their main gameplan: WOW OPPONENT IS DRAWING GREAT HERE. seth when he topdecks one of his two-of sb casualties of war: "well, there's casualties finally"
in match four, couldn't you arch in your upkeep to hold onto the field of the deads you had to discard? no draw for turn because of narset after but get to keep the good cards.
A counter argument to the hour of promise like being reprinted: What are the chances they will print a similar card anytime soon? I would say very low. And what are the chances them introducing more land hate to the format? I would say very high.
If they dropped price of progress or something similar in the next anthology I would be so down for it remaining legal but without some huge punisher for ramping I just don't think it can stay.
32:46: Seth forgets what Arch of Orazca does and doesn't just activate it in response to the Lilly plus. It either 1. Insulates the growth spiral against the lilly plus, which honestly isn't a great card here with Narset out or 2. Let's the growth spiral insulate whatever you draw off the arch. Edit: Actually this whole game is painful to watch, lol.
It just shows that FotD needs to go. Seth was misplaying so much that game and his opponent even had a lot of tech against Seths deck, yet Seth still won without any trouble
@@ForgotMyDemonName Ah yes, pointing out a better line of play to other viewers is being egotistical and not making an observation. You know how this is people get better, right? Ah, but that elitist comment about people in silver outs the fact that your self esteem is as fragile as an egg shell, so I I shouldn't say any meanie comments in case I hurt your little feelings, you waste of space. EDIT: And to make matters worse, I see you're going on every comment you don't like and spewing the same trash. You really are pathetic, lmao.
Hey Seth, what do you think would happen if they decide to give Field the "Companion treatment" and change the triggered ability to paying 1 generic mana to create the Zombie token? I would never have considered an errata possible until they kinda did it for Companion (the mechanic, not the actual cards).
imagine being so incompetent that you ban a card in standard, then put it back into standard but with like 10 old cards, ban it again, un-ban it again, and you're still sitting around wondering why people complain about it
Yeah but you could also just win with the zombies, you don’t need extra help. Those are cards that are bad at any stage in the game because they don’t contribute to the ramp payoff plan or are a ramp payoff
The biggest problem is that this deck is utilizing two broken cards that synergies incredibly well with each other (Uro and Field of the Dead). The fact that the deck is more or less a ramp deck that doesn't need high end cards like Ugin, Ulamog or Krasis to function, is also a problem.
The classic problem with ramp was getting too many lands and no value or just the bombs without enought ramp, with Uro you have the ramp and the value on the same card, in a way the same is true with Field of the Dead. I do think there is a way to print cards that are good for ramp and have a backup plan, but without a drawback the card is doomed to be banned eventually. I do have the good memories of, during the first weeks the Field of the Dead was legal in standard, putting toghether a deck for my GF with gates and Fields and crushing people at FNM with 22 zombies with what was considered a bulk-budget deck. Paid less than a dollar per Field and less than a dolar per Golos. Then people started putting Fields on Teferi decks and we all know what happend. (I'm not saying thet the card was not broken, what I'm saying is that it was really fun on budget builds)
I primarily play Mono-U Tempo and Field can go; it probably will. I can win the matchup if I play a super tight game, but it's still pretty hard once they get triggers going.
Taking away the problem card or the problem cards enabler is always a really interesting debate, but I think that field is far too easy to accedently break and it would probably be a better idea to ban field instead
My argument is that there will be another Hour of Promise in the future, so banning it is a short term solution. On the other hand, it seems unlikely Wizards prints another land that offers as much free value as Field of the Dead anytime soon.
I keep seeing videos by various content creators with titles along the lines of "should field of the dead be banned?" and every time I check one out, I half expect the video to be three seconds long, with the creator saying, "Yes."
And they either destroy it with enchantment removal or don't give a shit and cast an ugin. The problem with Field is that its free value, if you waste a card/tempo to deal with it then it doesn't actually do anything to slow down the FotD player and they just continue on like nothing happened.
Field of the Dead might be pretty much unbeatable right now, but remember that Historic is a catch-all format like Modern or Legacy. More and more cards will be added that will eventually raise the power level to somewhere similar to Modern. Winning on turn 5 in modern is common, and is sometimes slow in Legacy. If Field is banned now, it will only smooth out Historic's transition to that power level. Modern and Legacy both had similar growing pains but eventually reached a point where they leveled out at a similar power to Field of the Dead. One of the reasons Field of the Dead is so powerful this early in the format is that it relies on card archetypes that are often printed in core sets. Ramp, tutors, and lands with different names are all things we see just about every core set. Other deck archetypes gain *significant* power with the release of more unique cards, especially combo decks. Just checked, they banned it. I guess I'll see you all in a year or two when the community is saying "well Field of the Dead kinda looks average now".
Hey Seth, I've had some really good luck against Field of the Dead with a Mono White Gain Life Enchantment deck! I think I've lost to Field once maybe with it lol. I do agree the card is stupid strong, but not unbeatable. Great games, love the content man!
@@MTGGoldfish Sorry for the long timed response, I didn't see the notification. Historic Mono White Enchants 4x Alseid of Life's Bounty 4x Griffin Aerie 4x The Birth of Meletis 3x Daxos, Blessed by the Sun 3x Banishing Light 3x Heliod, Sun-Crowned 4x Omen of the Sun 3x Anointed Procession 3x Conclave Tribunal 2x Archon of Sun's Grace 2x Blessed Sanctuary 1x Divine Visitaion 2x Elspeth Conquers Death 2x Castle Ardenvale 20x Plains 1x Shefet Dunes I also want to note that I play mostly BO1, so this list is obviously designed for that.
While I agree it should be banned I beat this deck all the time with Grixis. When you can empty their hand by turn 4 with Kroxa and Thoughtseize and stick a Nicol Bolas Dragon God its pretty much gg. Making them sac a land every turn stops it in its tracks. Stumble once and they recover fast though.
I have been beating FotD with Soul Sisters but only because I have four Thalia in the maindeck and 3 Vryn Wingmare in the side. You need to be faster and taxing them, that's the only way. Can't wait to see it gone
I think there are a lot of ways to tone down field, as I always kinda hate it when a deck ends up banned and it *seems* like it could possibly be balanced/hated out. 1: Uro: I think that of the many possible problematic cards, Uro is one of the worst (as seen in pioneer). It continuing to draw cards against midrange and control while gaining life against aggro means it is almost always an impossible problem when you have to deal with everything else this deck does. (I say this with my current favorite deck being a rainbow CoCo deck trying to cheat out uros and kroxas with hushbringer). 2: Magus of the Moon/Blood Moon: I kinda want these in the format anyway, as punishing greedy manabases (even if that's all my manabases) is important, and it could be another way to deal with field that still gets wrecked by ugin. Blood Moon is also a cool card for the mono-white prison deck using nine lives and solemnity, as idyllic tutor can fetch it pretty well. plus, magus can be fetched in toolbox decks, and I love those decks. those are just 2 cool ideas.
The only cards I've found useful against Field decks is Ashiok, Dream Render and Virulent Plague. And that is ONLY if you can get it down before Hour of Promise. Then you have to protect your hate cards from Casualties of War etc.
I have taken to running Trespasser's Curse in my black decks due to the prominence of this deck and goblins, although it is mostly this deck i see these days.
I somehow keep playing decks which aren't super competitve (Stuck around Plat 3-2) but fuck with the meta accidentally. I just build decks that I'll think will be fun with no attention to meta, but my elf deck was great against 3 mana teferi, as it just became a 3 mana bounce spell likely killed soon after ((I also played 0 instants). Now I've build a U/W flyers deck which seems to be beating Field decks pretty consistantly, one of my best match-ups actually. It's the mono red and Rakdos sacrifice decks I hate when playing that.
I think it is important to remember that standard went to shit after field of the dead got banned. Historic is the right place for field of the dead to be good. The reason the other decks didn't do well against field is because the meta is still very new. Wait until more hate shows up. Mono red did hit you with either of the blood moon effects (blood sun/ alpine moon). Also wotc could easily just add blood moon to the format and the deck. Wotc shouldn't be looking for bans in historic, they can always "print" an anthology or a remastered or a single card to the format whenever they want, which is the right way to balance. Additive balance is better than subtractive balance (buff better than nerf). Another for instance, You never saw a black deck t3 virulent plague. Red never hit you with a Rampaging Ferocidon. The list of hate cards you dodged is huge. Once the meta settles a little it will be harder to play this deck or anything like it. This isn't a deck that should leave, I just don't think you like land based decks, which is why tron is your boogie man. Field of the dead might as well be in the same family as dark depths and tron. It is less powerful than either of those, but it is absolutely more inevitable. Again, the opponents didn't interact very well because the format isn't very solved so people didn't bring the right hate apparently. I think banning is a bad slope to start sliding down.
When mono red takes a turn off to play a moon effect it likely means the aggro deck is too slow. The opponents didnt interact very well because there isnt a good way to interact in Historic. And 1, FotD decks can interact with virulent plague, 2, Seth did play against a ferocidon and beat it. Dont put FotD in the same family as Dark Depths, that is a combo deck not a ramp deck. Banning is not a bad slope to fall into because banning literally removes problems. The downside of banning field is people dont get to play that specific archetype of ramp. The upside is greater format diversity because ramp will still exist and it lifts the thumb off of midrange and control. You go down 1 deck and go up 2 archetypes and add diversity into a 3rd.
Couple thoughts. What if field was legendary? Would that open up broken combo’s? Also, I think Uro is the real problem it just gains to much life against agro and gives too much time.
the problem is theres a difference between an errata that readjust abilities and a meta that changes a card entirely. Case in point, NO card has even gone to just Legendary in Magic history. Your thinking like MTG is an online only card game, not as a paper game which would mess with the meta of other formats such as modern and legacy!
The fear that Jace and SFM where would break Modern came from Legacy and was rooted in the highly frustrating games that you would have if you faced UW+X-Control. The mainproblem with Field is that it`s non-Legendary (I still don`t get why, same for the Eldrain-Castles and others) and that there are no reliable answers to it since Ugin and Ulamog joint the format.
After playing EDH for the last few years, there is something I have learned. The player with the most land tends to win most often. FoD is just part of the problem, look at the middle of the card list slide, there is the problem. 18 pieces of ramp will just make something else become banned until the cap of 3 CMC cards comes to historic. FoD works in slowish formats and is a trap when things speed up.
@@big53mac oh boy the one card they can KILL BEFORE ITS EFFECT GOES OFF WITH EASE can sometimes hurt the deck that makes an army of 2/2. truly makes the card balance
The question is are you winning because of field of the dead or because of ugin and ulamog? People have been collecting data and show that builds with ugin and ulamog have a much higher win percentage than without.
@@MTGGoldfish I could see that but a yorion shell with omen of heliod and omen of the sea kind of does a similar thing don't you think? With the ban update I think it would be interesting to see you build another ramp deck but with the omens and yorion if you want and see what happens. If its not zombies its lifesaving and board wipes.
While I do agree that aggro isn't a solution against Field decks, boy, those aggro decks you faced were pretty slow... the decks I face in the T2 ladder have 3 cratures turn-2 and a damage amplifier turn 3 to kill me turn 4...
I've been playing mono black aggro with 8 discard spells. It's targets field pretty hard and the matchup is ok. Idk if I'm a favorite. Game 1 is good but postboard, I feel like I need to get lucky to win. Field is dumb. I don't think mono red is the best aggro deck btw. Mono Blue and Mono Black have seemed stronger.
oh god, yes plz. I play 4 virulent plagues and 1 blood sun in my Grixis sideboard and still get my ass handed to my from time to time. They side vraska and cast casualties of war on turn 3 basically yea :D
It's a sad thing that field of the dead is so broken. I like the ideas of lands that have a strong impact on the board and are maybe build around. How would you fix this card if you could? Personally, I might either add a "if you control three or less zombies" or include in zendikar a lot of non-basic land hate.
Did we learn nothing from when they banned Field in Standard? It was just replaced by equally horrible Nissa ramp clusterfuck. If they ban Field, fine, but they need to ban other cards as well. Especially Uro, probably Nissa too. I would like to say, while there is a genuine case for the ban that is based on quality of gameplay, seeing someone advocate for the bans for power level reasons (when there isn't a real case there) is counterproductive. What, you went 5-0 and want to ban it? You beat different decks in those five matches? That's all anecdotal. It's laughably banned in Pioneer, where decks genuinely used to win games on turn 4 constantly? Do you also think DRS should be banned in Pioneer because it's banned in Modern? It's as if formats have different environments other than mere power level. I genuinely think that banning cards for being miserable is fine, but Field is not overpowered by any objective measurement. Again, if you advocate for its ban because it sucks to play against and the counterplay is tacky, I would begrudgingly agree with you. Field of the Dead may not be overpowered in my opinion, but it's also not fun. Lean on that. That is a genuinely good case for its ban. Quality of gameplay is important and banning cards to enhance it is just as valid as banning cards for power level. Most importantly, Ramp is just as awful to play against and needs to be touched too, if that is the case.
I think literally the only option to deal with this deck is playing it and running unmoored egos in the sideboard and just praying that in a mirror they don't get field down first. Ego lets you just completely lock out field if you are fast enough. Like yes, its normally a bad card but against a deck all in on the field of hte dead gameplan it basically is 3 mana win the game
imagine getting queued up against the SaffronOlive and you think "ooh wonder what jank he's playing today" and it's the same deck youve faced every other game of the day.....
F
@@jorgearroyo703 I dont see field a lot in Plat tbh.
@@benjaminrude7698 Mythic used to be flooded with Field decks before the ban announcement. Right now it's a wild wild west
im playing reanimator with ulamog and sphinx mindbreaker , im always happy if im gettin this decks. sadly ive just seen that deck twice. ( im flooded by mono blue and goblins)
I once faced him in bo3 and he instantly conceded
Watching Seth continuously misplay horrifically and still win is probably the best case for a Field ban.
You get em, know it all.
My motto is if I can win with it, it must be good.
@@MTGGoldfish Can't wait for that Sethron ban.
@@erinaxel8562 I think that was a bug 🐛
@@MTGGoldfish "If you can win playing badly, why NOT punt for days?" :^)
It's like a reverse against the odds. "Can we lose today with this busted deck ?" xD
You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy field of the dead, not join them. bring balance to the meta, not leave it in darkness.
He is doing it to prove that it should be banned I think.
Man i literally just made this comment about seth and spoiling uro
@Michael Nelson Dont worry, I saw that ;) I am 100% with you on your argument joke though.
Sometimes, you need to become the cancer to get rid of the cancer.
"Do we even need Ugin?"
And that friends is your metric for if a card is bannable or not.
Why bother with a giant planeswalker if you can just win with fucking basic land.
You lived long enough to see yourself become the enemy
*villain
Seth this was great. Could we get a permanent series called go to the dark side where you playthe most busted decks in a format?? Please.
It could be fun once and a while, if people like it :)
Joseph Rice I support this idea! :)
I'd rather keep Much Abrew for brews and not tier 1
I support this idea, with the caveat that you don’t completely become a dirty tron player
It’s almost like wotc never learned that field of the dead, like valakut, should be legendary.
It's nice to watch Seth play meta decks once in a while. Brings some perspective that just because he likes to plays "janky" decks doesn't mean he doesn't understand how to play the meta decks.
Reminds me of when commentators complimented Seth on his plays when he was in Modern Super League with and against other pros. The man plays enough "jank" that that's all the practice he needs.
Sorry, but he played a mythic tier deck in platinum, poorly; and still crushed. It's not him, it's the deck. Ban field of the dead ASAP!
@@curtisfarley6558 love when the know it alls come out. You're not better than he is. I bet you play mythic decks down in silver all the time. Ffs lol
Kind of a strange comment, seeing as Seth misplayed quite a lot this video. He's not a bad player for sure, but I don't think this video was the best showcase for that.
@@m-hcv Yeah he is better with decks he is more experience with like with the hammer time combo deck in modern.
I love how you did this video and IMMEDIATELY the next morning Historic banned field of the dead. You broke the game, Seth :-P
@@thedarkemissary Then how did he play it? It was announced on the 24th, and went live the 24th.
@@thedarkemissary yes I am . You are aware the videos have an uploaded date, and its the 23rd?
@@thedarkemissary nope, the 24th. magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/august-24-2020-banned-and-restricted-announcement
@@thedarkemissary so you do know the video was out before the ban announcement. You said it was banned beforehand. It was not.
@@thedarkemissary "Aug 24, 15:30 UTC
Scheduled - We will be performing scheduled maintenance on August 24 at approximately 8:30 a.m. PT (15:30 UTC) to deploy the 1.11.00.02 game update (card legality update for Historic). Maintenance is expected to last approximately one hour."
Clearly Historic just needs blood moon.
This
There's blood sun :P
@@Jeepod blood sun plus the ferocidon Hazoret plan doesn't seem terrible.....have played 0 historic tho
Sounds like a good idea but will Blood Moon do against Ugin?
Neither blood sun/Moon are enough for this deck. Even if; artifact/enchantment hate, is so easy sb
As someone who plays aggro, an archetype notoriously good against slow controlling decks, I can tell you this deck beats me a pretty large portion of the time. I need to draw incredible well and they need to not draw hour of promise or uro for me to have a shot.
What aggro deck are you playing?
Use ashiok
Play monoblue tempo if you want to crush Field decks all day long.
Feel the exact same way. I play wb vamp aggro & if I don't win by turn 4 the game is over
Even wit strong early pressure & decent reach it just feels like none of it matters wit how easily field decks generate value
Play decks like mengucci's mono rogue red aggro which has ferocidon, cheap burn spells, fliers and 8 damage lands or BR aggro which uses ashiok in the main to fuel kroxa. Or black aggro which has fliers (6 - 8) and flying(2-4) enchantments along with ashiok and thoughtsieze. Field is not too hard to manage if you play with the right decks
Next thing you know, we'll be playing Tron in Modern.... Just for science.
Tron good. Can confirm
😱
Next week on Much Abrew...
I like how every defense of Field of the Dead I see on reddit starts with something like "it is not completely impossible to beat"
Wow, I'm convinced
Pretty much the defense of every broken deck in any format begins with "it is not completely impossible to beat" and then usually ends with suggesting a bunch of insanely narrow cards that nobody in their right mind wants to be playing.
Its like how Inverter players were saying that they're deck was beatable if they didn't draw their combo. Like, no shit.
@@Ghost26968 Just like the Twin-Players back in the days^^
I would say blood sun but considering the speed of the deck, whilst you're mopping up outstanding zombies, Ugin comes down
but brewing wise, blood sun, thassa plus deputy of detention, virulent plague, trespassers curse, ferocidon all get shut down by ugin. A land later goodnight. Playing necromentia/lost legacy/ unmoored ego doesn't take a dropped field off the table
hydra66 right exactly. Well said. No card Can answer it cleanly. You can even use ghost quarter because usually they have three on the battlefield.
@@hydra66 everytime you play a hatecard against this deck you spend a card to beat a land, leaving them with a normal rampdeck, that is not really a good option
@@FrowningTable tried that- it causes them to fetch a land, triggering the other 2 fields in response. I'd rather face a lilliana ultimate
Alpine Moon is easier to use I feel. Still probably not a super good answer though.
Should Field of the Dead be banned from Historic?
Short answer:
Yes.
Long answer:
Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.
When you stream a Dark Side deck, make sure you have a big hood over your face to become Dark Seth.
Field of the dead is a card that looks safe when you first see it, seven or more other lands is a lot to ask but then once it gets into real formats and is tested you see it is broken. That isn't really anyone's fault, the issue is when pride makes you not ban it.
I mean, thats drfinitely wizards fault since theyre supposed to have people playtesting these cards to make sure theyre not busted. If the only metric for releasing cards was "does it look reasonable at face value" this game would be even more of a shitshow than it is ban-wise. Though with wizards releasing tef3ri, oko, and fires in quick succession maybe that is their only metric >.
Damn you pride, ruining balance
it is literally the testing teams fault, cards like Field already exist.
New series: should this be banned? Goblins next!
Muxus is explosive, but not banworthy
@@gabrielamaro1470 tell that to everyone who lost to a Muxus being played on an empty board and died to the following attack.
All they need to hit is a haste giver + Krenko and it's over.
Monsieur Generalissimo they’re not guaranteed to hit haste enablers though. It’s always a gamble on what gets hit. Besides that there are ways to stop him both in terms of hate cards and interaction. Grafdigger’s Cage completely shuts Muxus down, and hitting key goblins with spot removal spells also stops the big swing for long enough to sweep or win once your turn comes around. It’s not as broken as people make it out to be.
@@gabrielamaro1470 That means you have to run a deck with removal. A lot of it, draw said removal and have hate cards.
Which all is a void argument in Bo1 anyway.
So what?
It's almost the same argument with FotD.
There is Ghost Quarter and Field of Ruin and Narset almost shuts the entire deck down.
That said Golbins have 8 haste enablers and even card that can fetch out those.
@@RiseInAfterlife Not necessarily. I was mentioning direct ways to deal with Muxus, but some strategies can totally race him. The U/W aura deck comes to mind, since with the right combination of auras, Kor Spiritdancer becomes a vigilant lifelinker with tons of power, allowing you to stay ahead of their damage. R/B Aggro/Pyromancer can use cards like Priest, Claim the Firstborn to remove goblins and also can race fast with the Claim // Fame Archfiend's Vessel synergy. But anyway, why would we even be talking about BO1? It's never been a competitive format and never will be. The lack of a sideboard means that certain matchups will almost always be unwinnable unless you have a wishboard with Karn/Fae of Wishes, or maindeck hate that doesn't make your actual strategy less consistent with its inclusion.
Seth: "There's like 50 lands in this deck
Seth 1 second later: We got 31 lands all together
Would love an alternate art for Field of the Dead, featuring the Eternals striding across the deserts of Amonket.
At 20:45 seth missed an opportunity to cast Explore. Could have explored, tapping temur triome and field, putting Forest in to play, then cast Languish off Hollow/Catacombs/Island/Forest. Think theres a 0% chance it mattered though.
I love that he actually played what’s generally considered the best deck in a format. He makes good enough janky decks to do well so it was sweet to see him play a top tier deck in contrast. Field will be banned. I like lands decks but it’s just too easy to abuse
When fotd was in standard I was playing grixis control, the combo of unmoored ego, flame sweep, and big Chandra was actually pretty solid. vs FotD....but Uro didn't exist and thoughtseize wasn't legal
@9:18 What is the arena UI doing? Are people just OK with this?
Most people are.
Arena interface is a pile a poop. Everything moves everywhere and try discarding 15 cards its a nightmare.
Best zombie tribal deck in any format. With zero actual zombie cards.
If you're already playing Sultai, play some Yarok to double the field triggers!
Would this deck survive against aggro without Uro gaining 8000 life over the course of the game?
Yes. This deck gets infinite blocks starting turn 4. Only an enchantment flyers/unblockable deck has a chance
It would be harder, would be much more reliant on getting to seven lands for Field of the Dead super quick, which would still happen in Hour of Promise games, but in other games aggro would have a much better shot.
@@MTGGoldfish I saw Mengucci beat the shit out of three Field decks the other day with a UB tap out control. Necromentia did it along with Field of Ruin. But, honestly, it's tap out control, y'know... Feels almost like cheesing it.
Opponent keeps one lander, does not thoughtseizes the removal spell to protect his mana dork.
WHY???
I got to Mythic with this deck. I'm not that good a magic player. It should probs be banned.
lmao have some confidence my guy, you can't be that bad. still, you're probably right about the banning
@@RandomPerson-mv8bn all you gotta have is greater than 50% winrate
@@MineRoyale. you'd be surprised the amount of bad players and decks at mythic, even at the 95% range
@@MineRoyale. 60% win rate is about 300 games in one season. So i think sparing your free time shouldn't be taken lightly lol
this is the kinda honesty the world needs
Field of the dead so good that even the mirror matches cant beat it
Everyone's pointing at Field of the Dead but honestly, Uro's doing much more work here.
Yeah honestly uro should have probably hit the ban list as well recently, its ramp, card draw, lifegain and a wincon all wrapped up in one nice neat bundle. Makes krasis look like its sitting at the kiddie table
@@marlowemouse Plus, you can fit it in pretty much any UG/X ramp and it will still probably be the single most profitable card. Like you said, it's three mana for draw, +3, and another land drop. Field is downright fantastic right now, but the deck is named after it.
The problem is that Uro doesn't just win games like FotD
@@Gallagher_meme that is very true
@@Gallagher_meme He does against aggro but yeah FOTD is good against every archetype.
Yes, emphatically. You know there's a problem when your opponent dumps their whole hand onto the field in a single turn, you draw Ugin, and decide you don't even need him.
This is like playing the booster box game but with a deck.
Many Magic: the Gathering players wonder, is Field of the Dead broken enough that it should be banned?...
Fell asleep watching this; watched the end to catch up; turned on Arena during the wrap-up; found out the SaffronOlive effect has a whole new meaning.
seth when opp draws a 4-of that's part of their main gameplan: WOW OPPONENT IS DRAWING GREAT HERE. seth when he topdecks one of his two-of sb casualties of war: "well, there's casualties finally"
I don't know what's the problem, match 5 clearly ilustrates that you can beat field of the dead
/s
in match four, couldn't you arch in your upkeep to hold onto the field of the deads you had to discard? no draw for turn because of narset after but get to keep the good cards.
Yeah, I think I messed that game up (but we still won because the deck is busted).
A counter argument to the hour of promise like being reprinted: What are the chances they will print a similar card anytime soon? I would say very low. And what are the chances them introducing more land hate to the format? I would say very high.
The very next set has a lands matter theme
If they dropped price of progress or something similar in the next anthology I would be so down for it remaining legal but without some huge punisher for ramping I just don't think it can stay.
That would be amazing that or limited resources.
Came here after the ban announcement.
Ding dong the field is dead!
32:46: Seth forgets what Arch of Orazca does and doesn't just activate it in response to the Lilly plus. It either 1. Insulates the growth spiral against the lilly plus, which honestly isn't a great card here with Narset out or 2. Let's the growth spiral insulate whatever you draw off the arch.
Edit: Actually this whole game is painful to watch, lol.
It just shows that FotD needs to go. Seth was misplaying so much that game and his opponent even had a lot of tech against Seths deck, yet Seth still won without any trouble
Agreed
Also this is platinum rank.
All the know it alls who "play perfect" when they aren't actually playing are hilarious. Keep the ego down there in silver, folks lmao
@@ForgotMyDemonName Ah yes, pointing out a better line of play to other viewers is being egotistical and not making an observation. You know how this is people get better, right? Ah, but that elitist comment about people in silver outs the fact that your self esteem is as fragile as an egg shell, so I I shouldn't say any meanie comments in case I hurt your little feelings, you waste of space.
EDIT: And to make matters worse, I see you're going on every comment you don't like and spewing the same trash. You really are pathetic, lmao.
@@Ghost26968 ahahahaha wow. Struck a nerve, huh?
There will be a B&R today for historic only (announced on Twitter 3 days ago). I guess we know what is going away...
What we need is a Torpor Orb effect for non-creature permanents.
As I am watching this I open Arena on my other screen and the first thing that pops up is Field off the dead banned in Historic. Well done Seth LOL
Arena should let you have massacre wurm as a companion when against field of the dead except its colorless
It also costs less for each token in play (:
Back post feild historic ban, literally hours after this video. Convinced wizards watched goldfish for suggestions
I wonder if ashiok would be a viable countermeasure for esper doom, or if it's just not enough.
Why isn't casualties of war in the maindeck? It might be "bad" in the mono red matchup but you can still hit anax + creature + land.
"Do they have the Shark Typhoon?"
Literally has thoughtseize in hand.
Yes, but they'd cycle in response, so he couldn't stop it anyway
They could just cycle it in response and make the shark, so Thoughtseize wouldn't be especially helpful at that point :(
Hey Seth, what do you think would happen if they decide to give Field the "Companion treatment" and change the triggered ability to paying 1 generic mana to create the Zombie token? I would never have considered an errata possible until they kinda did it for Companion (the mechanic, not the actual cards).
they can't change a cards printed mechanics because of paper magic
imagine being so incompetent that you ban a card in standard, then put it back into standard but with like 10 old cards, ban it again, un-ban it again, and you're still sitting around wondering why people complain about it
I like how Seth just casually threw out darksiding as if he has idea what the darkside is!
2:37 "Field of the Dead IS the Zombie Text." (Thanks for the content. I'm pro Field.)
wut
Lmao he’s talking about hour, omg watch the video ppl
Honestly! If you added anything that abused those Zombies entering the battlefield so often, it would rock. (Ayara, Corpse knight).
Yeah but you could also just win with the zombies, you don’t need extra help. Those are cards that are bad at any stage in the game because they don’t contribute to the ramp payoff plan or are a ramp payoff
The biggest problem is that this deck is utilizing two broken cards that synergies incredibly well with each other (Uro and Field of the Dead). The fact that the deck is more or less a ramp deck that doesn't need high end cards like Ugin, Ulamog or Krasis to function, is also a problem.
The classic problem with ramp was getting too many lands and no value or just the bombs without enought ramp, with Uro you have the ramp and the value on the same card, in a way the same is true with Field of the Dead. I do think there is a way to print cards that are good for ramp and have a backup plan, but without a drawback the card is doomed to be banned eventually.
I do have the good memories of, during the first weeks the Field of the Dead was legal in standard, putting toghether a deck for my GF with gates and Fields and crushing people at FNM with 22 zombies with what was considered a bulk-budget deck. Paid less than a dollar per Field and less than a dolar per Golos. Then people started putting Fields on Teferi decks and we all know what happend.
(I'm not saying thet the card was not broken, what I'm saying is that it was really fun on budget builds)
I play actual Ponza (Mono-Red or Jund) and against Sultai Field it feels like an even Match-up where neither side has a clear adventage
I primarily play Mono-U Tempo and Field can go; it probably will. I can win the matchup if I play a super tight game, but it's still pretty hard once they get triggers going.
Pro tip for x spells like krasis: double tap q to tap all your lands and you can more quickly count your mana
Ohh, good call.
What about banning hour of promise?
E: no, I disagree with myself, ban field
manuelito1233 what they hell are you saying?
Taking away the problem card or the problem cards enabler is always a really interesting debate, but I think that field is far too easy to accedently break and it would probably be a better idea to ban field instead
Ban field duh!!!!
My argument is that there will be another Hour of Promise in the future, so banning it is a short term solution. On the other hand, it seems unlikely Wizards prints another land that offers as much free value as Field of the Dead anytime soon.
I think a basic strategic guideline should be that you don't play land destruction against a ramp deck.
I keep seeing videos by various content creators with titles along the lines of "should field of the dead be banned?" and every time I check one out, I half expect the video to be three seconds long, with the creator saying, "Yes."
What about alpine moon shouldn't that stop field?
And they either destroy it with enchantment removal or don't give a shit and cast an ugin. The problem with Field is that its free value, if you waste a card/tempo to deal with it then it doesn't actually do anything to slow down the FotD player and they just continue on like nothing happened.
Field of the Dead might be pretty much unbeatable right now, but remember that Historic is a catch-all format like Modern or Legacy. More and more cards will be added that will eventually raise the power level to somewhere similar to Modern. Winning on turn 5 in modern is common, and is sometimes slow in Legacy. If Field is banned now, it will only smooth out Historic's transition to that power level. Modern and Legacy both had similar growing pains but eventually reached a point where they leveled out at a similar power to Field of the Dead.
One of the reasons Field of the Dead is so powerful this early in the format is that it relies on card archetypes that are often printed in core sets. Ramp, tutors, and lands with different names are all things we see just about every core set. Other deck archetypes gain *significant* power with the release of more unique cards, especially combo decks.
Just checked, they banned it. I guess I'll see you all in a year or two when the community is saying "well Field of the Dead kinda looks average now".
Watching this in 2024, and boy, is this deck a real Who’s Who of broken cards I don’t miss in any format.
Golos was serviceable (and really good) as a way to fetch field before hour of promise
Next you are going to tell me Seth also known as Saffron Olive is going to play Tron in Modern to play it to see how it feels to be a Tron player?
Just saw a post from Goldfish about it being officially banned :D Seth are you a prophet by any chance or an actual wizard?
Hey Seth, I've had some really good luck against Field of the Dead with a Mono White Gain Life Enchantment deck! I think I've lost to Field once maybe with it lol. I do agree the card is stupid strong, but not unbeatable. Great games, love the content man!
Ohh, that sounds sweet, do you have a list?
@@MTGGoldfish Sorry for the long timed response, I didn't see the notification.
Historic Mono White Enchants
4x Alseid of Life's Bounty
4x Griffin Aerie
4x The Birth of Meletis
3x Daxos, Blessed by the Sun
3x Banishing Light
3x Heliod, Sun-Crowned
4x Omen of the Sun
3x Anointed Procession
3x Conclave Tribunal
2x Archon of Sun's Grace
2x Blessed Sanctuary
1x Divine Visitaion
2x Elspeth Conquers Death
2x Castle Ardenvale
20x Plains
1x Shefet Dunes
I also want to note that I play mostly BO1, so this list is obviously designed for that.
While I agree it should be banned I beat this deck all the time with Grixis. When you can empty their hand by turn 4 with Kroxa and Thoughtseize and stick a Nicol Bolas Dragon God its pretty much gg. Making them sac a land every turn stops it in its tracks. Stumble once and they recover fast though.
That snap-keep on the 6-lander w/Uro lol
I'd be tempted to keep a seven lander with this deck, assuming one of the lands is Field of the Dead.
I have been beating FotD with Soul Sisters but only because I have four Thalia in the maindeck and 3 Vryn Wingmare in the side. You need to be faster and taxing them, that's the only way. Can't wait to see it gone
I think there are a lot of ways to tone down field, as I always kinda hate it when a deck ends up banned and it *seems* like it could possibly be balanced/hated out.
1: Uro: I think that of the many possible problematic cards, Uro is one of the worst (as seen in pioneer). It continuing to draw cards against midrange and control while gaining life against aggro means it is almost always an impossible problem when you have to deal with everything else this deck does. (I say this with my current favorite deck being a rainbow CoCo deck trying to cheat out uros and kroxas with hushbringer).
2: Magus of the Moon/Blood Moon: I kinda want these in the format anyway, as punishing greedy manabases (even if that's all my manabases) is important, and it could be another way to deal with field that still gets wrecked by ugin. Blood Moon is also a cool card for the mono-white prison deck using nine lives and solemnity, as idyllic tutor can fetch it pretty well. plus, magus can be fetched in toolbox decks, and I love those decks.
those are just 2 cool ideas.
The only cards I've found useful against Field decks is Ashiok, Dream Render and Virulent Plague. And that is ONLY if you can get it down before Hour of Promise. Then you have to protect your hate cards from Casualties of War etc.
I have taken to running Trespasser's Curse in my black decks due to the prominence of this deck and goblins, although it is mostly this deck i see these days.
I somehow keep playing decks which aren't super competitve (Stuck around Plat 3-2) but fuck with the meta accidentally. I just build decks that I'll think will be fun with no attention to meta, but my elf deck was great against 3 mana teferi, as it just became a 3 mana bounce spell likely killed soon after ((I also played 0 instants). Now I've build a U/W flyers deck which seems to be beating Field decks pretty consistantly, one of my best match-ups actually. It's the mono red and Rakdos sacrifice decks I hate when playing that.
You should make this into a series called "Evil Seth" where you play overpowered strategies, then drop your opinion on them just like you did here.
And Evil Seth would have no beard. Or at least the thumbnail picture wouldn't lol
Seth I'm from 2 years in the future. Safe to say you were pretty right about this one. :)
I think it is important to remember that standard went to shit after field of the dead got banned. Historic is the right place for field of the dead to be good. The reason the other decks didn't do well against field is because the meta is still very new. Wait until more hate shows up. Mono red did hit you with either of the blood moon effects (blood sun/ alpine moon). Also wotc could easily just add blood moon to the format and the deck. Wotc shouldn't be looking for bans in historic, they can always "print" an anthology or a remastered or a single card to the format whenever they want, which is the right way to balance. Additive balance is better than subtractive balance (buff better than nerf).
Another for instance, You never saw a black deck t3 virulent plague. Red never hit you with a Rampaging Ferocidon. The list of hate cards you dodged is huge. Once the meta settles a little it will be harder to play this deck or anything like it. This isn't a deck that should leave, I just don't think you like land based decks, which is why tron is your boogie man. Field of the dead might as well be in the same family as dark depths and tron. It is less powerful than either of those, but it is absolutely more inevitable. Again, the opponents didn't interact very well because the format isn't very solved so people didn't bring the right hate apparently. I think banning is a bad slope to start sliding down.
When mono red takes a turn off to play a moon effect it likely means the aggro deck is too slow. The opponents didnt interact very well because there isnt a good way to interact in Historic. And 1, FotD decks can interact with virulent plague, 2, Seth did play against a ferocidon and beat it. Dont put FotD in the same family as Dark Depths, that is a combo deck not a ramp deck. Banning is not a bad slope to fall into because banning literally removes problems. The downside of banning field is people dont get to play that specific archetype of ramp. The upside is greater format diversity because ramp will still exist and it lifts the thumb off of midrange and control. You go down 1 deck and go up 2 archetypes and add diversity into a 3rd.
@@R3ach4Th3Sky Except it shuts off the opponents deck. It is just like playing blood moon against tron or lands.
Couple thoughts. What if field was legendary? Would that open up broken combo’s? Also, I think Uro is the real problem it just gains to much life against agro and gives too much time.
the problem is theres a difference between an errata that readjust abilities and a meta that changes a card entirely. Case in point, NO card has even gone to just Legendary in Magic history. Your thinking like MTG is an online only card game, not as a paper game which would mess with the meta of other formats such as modern and legacy!
naw, it's totally fine. definitely. 110%.
for real though i got to mythic in like 2 days with this deck, so maybe could you stop please wizards.
I don't know about this one, you also said that Jace and SFM would be too good in Modern.
The fear that Jace and SFM where would break Modern came from Legacy and was rooted in the highly frustrating games that you would have if you faced UW+X-Control. The mainproblem with Field is that it`s non-Legendary (I still don`t get why, same for the Eldrain-Castles and others) and that there are no reliable answers to it since Ugin and Ulamog joint the format.
The very next day, they gave it away.... wow
After playing EDH for the last few years, there is something I have learned. The player with the most land tends to win most often. FoD is just part of the problem, look at the middle of the card list slide, there is the problem. 18 pieces of ramp will just make something else become banned until the cap of 3 CMC cards comes to historic. FoD works in slowish formats and is a trap when things speed up.
What?
My mans, have you played historic? Format is not slow. Field is the problem. I think Uro is a problem too, but I don’t they’ll ban him :(
How sweet would it be if the next set reprints price of progress?
It would be great against Field of the Dead, although it might just be too strong for the format, punishing fairer midrange and control decks as well.
anyone who says FOTD is not good is either lying or playing it themselves. Its a top tier deck due to the fact of how flexible it can be
Massacre wurm is really good against it. Like they have 12 2/2's you play massacre wurm abd its gg
@@big53mac oh boy the one card they can KILL BEFORE ITS EFFECT GOES OFF WITH EASE can sometimes hurt the deck that makes an army of 2/2. truly makes the card balance
@@big53mac Massacre Wurm would be the end all be all answer if this was Hearth Stone, but this is MTG where there is a stack and instants.
Ghost26968 what is your argument
Turns out, yep.
The question is are you winning because of field of the dead or because of ugin and ulamog? People have been collecting data and show that builds with ugin and ulamog have a much higher win percentage than without.
I think that even if we win with Ugin or Ulamog, it's the Zombies (and Uro) that keep us alive long enough to get to the other finishers.
@@MTGGoldfish I could see that but a yorion shell with omen of heliod and omen of the sea kind of does a similar thing don't you think? With the ban update I think it would be interesting to see you build another ramp deck but with the omens and yorion if you want and see what happens. If its not zombies its lifesaving and board wipes.
we need the "exile target nonbasic land and all lands with the same name" card in historic
Very much agree. Crumble to Dust (or an upgraded version that hits all copies on the battlefield) might be enough to stop Field of the Dead.
While I do agree that aggro isn't a solution against Field decks, boy, those aggro decks you faced were pretty slow... the decks I face in the T2 ladder have 3 cratures turn-2 and a damage amplifier turn 3 to kill me turn 4...
I've been playing mono black aggro with 8 discard spells. It's targets field pretty hard and the matchup is ok. Idk if I'm a favorite. Game 1 is good but postboard, I feel like I need to get lucky to win. Field is dumb. I don't think mono red is the best aggro deck btw. Mono Blue and Mono Black have seemed stronger.
oh god, yes plz. I play 4 virulent plagues and 1 blood sun in my Grixis sideboard and still get my ass handed to my from time to time. They side vraska and cast casualties of war on turn 3 basically yea :D
It's a sad thing that field of the dead is so broken. I like the ideas of lands that have a strong impact on the board and are maybe build around.
How would you fix this card if you could?
Personally, I might either add a "if you control three or less zombies" or include in zendikar a lot of non-basic land hate.
I would think adding a "pay 1" or "pay 2" clause to it could reduce a lot of the shenanigans you could do with it.
@@heartbeat4atinman I really like this one
If field of the dead gets banned, I think embercleave should join it
What will happen when a land/landfall set hits Arena?
"field of the Daddying" 1:52
The problem is Ugin and hour of promise. Field of the dead itself was super beatable before those additions.
Did we learn nothing from when they banned Field in Standard? It was just replaced by equally horrible Nissa ramp clusterfuck. If they ban Field, fine, but they need to ban other cards as well. Especially Uro, probably Nissa too.
I would like to say, while there is a genuine case for the ban that is based on quality of gameplay, seeing someone advocate for the bans for power level reasons (when there isn't a real case there) is counterproductive. What, you went 5-0 and want to ban it? You beat different decks in those five matches? That's all anecdotal. It's laughably banned in Pioneer, where decks genuinely used to win games on turn 4 constantly? Do you also think DRS should be banned in Pioneer because it's banned in Modern? It's as if formats have different environments other than mere power level. I genuinely think that banning cards for being miserable is fine, but Field is not overpowered by any objective measurement.
Again, if you advocate for its ban because it sucks to play against and the counterplay is tacky, I would begrudgingly agree with you. Field of the Dead may not be overpowered in my opinion, but it's also not fun. Lean on that. That is a genuinely good case for its ban. Quality of gameplay is important and banning cards to enhance it is just as valid as banning cards for power level. Most importantly, Ramp is just as awful to play against and needs to be touched too, if that is the case.
I think literally the only option to deal with this deck is playing it and running unmoored egos in the sideboard and just praying that in a mirror they don't get field down first. Ego lets you just completely lock out field if you are fast enough. Like yes, its normally a bad card but against a deck all in on the field of hte dead gameplan it basically is 3 mana win the game