Putting night lords in D tier I think is alittle under cutting them with the bulky rule and when they great their trait they get plus one to wound it very helpful especially with allowing there elite power armor units to punch above their weight
I agree it can go well, I just think there is always a problem when a fundamental rule needs conditions outside your control to make it happen. Yes bulky helps, but your opponent is going to have some bulky models too. I love their assault units, but your rule might not happen due to unit size and casualties. I feel a D can beat an S for sure, but its an uphill battle. I think Night Lords fit that. They have some great pieces, but you need some help to get them all to flow right, where as armies we ranked higher we feel have the parts they need going in. Always love to be proven wrong and I would like to revisit this in a years time with more games played and see how we feel.
Yeah have to agree with my co podcaster here. I love the nightlords rule don't get me wrong; but it relies more heavily on your opponents army/your opponent fucking up then most other armies. If you cannot smack something smaller than you, then you are a little out of luck! Especially with now Mechanicum out, and Custodes coming out soon, I feel like as a Night Lords player you reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally have to play carefully and limited to get your full usage (shoot what you want to charge to minimize their units, then charge them and hope they are smaller). Thinking about it now, maybe I would upgrade them to C tier - but again it requires too many things to be set in place. That being said, there is a local night lords player who plays like the gods themselves and is nigh on unbeatable. Practice does make perfect!
@@Trajann Also remeber its night time, You are scared, they are shooting you outside of 24" and you are -2 on your LD checks since their also within 12" of you. THEY ARE COMING OUT OF THE WALLS MAN! (I think they wil be really good in some situations and then TOTAL C tier in others. )
@@SleepySoviet I agree, they are good, but breaking an already busted army comp (and then losing to the mirror match) or playing a specific counter to that same comp is neat, but not S-tier. They are overall strong if you end up in a gunfight, but have nothing once engaged. B+/A- imo Dan and Dave, fight me! -Steve
So I do think Fury pushes them over the edge, but its also their ability to handle the boogieman not just be one. Being able to get more grav, including on the moritat, really helps them shine vs others weaknesses. Getting some character 3+ invuns doesnt hurt either. I do feel UM and IF have better individual options, but IH have a strength above the A tiers and gotta put everyone somewhere.
Raven guard gets to infiltrate all non-heavy infantry, which I think is the big kicker. You can equip Mor Deythan with meltas too. Which means you get to decide how it plays out in the beginning and be at the right place first.
I think the VIII should be higher based solely on its focus towards list building. But in this conversation list building was held as a negative idea. Most of the higher ranked legions are all auto built lists. There's no thinking, no finesse. The only unit that comes close to auto include for the VIII are Night Raptors, and even then there are times where assault marines are the better choice. I'm sure you'll say D just means uphill battle, but that's not what the VIII do.
Not necessarily uphill, but requiring more input than "here's my one unit that I easily know is good, times 3." A lot of the thoughts went into ease of play (the reason I didn't think Iron Hands was S-tier was because outside of breaking a broken list comp a little extra, they are good but not an autopilot army). Part of ease is being able to identify which units to take in what numbers. I also put weight on how well generic units meshed with Legion rules, hence Ultras and Fists as the two S-tier ("markerlights" and "I shoot on 2s" can be applied very broadly and easily to just about every unit, and both legions can make good use of the generic melee units as well with wargear, rites, and/or reactions), while the amount of thought and pickiness that goes into listbuilding a Legion like EC or SW lowers them. Night Lords play like they read - gang up on the vulnerable smaller units, never pick a fair fight. It's a strategy that requires more thought than "lol 3++ save hammernator go smack". If you adopt a NL playstyle (pick on the weaker units) with IF, they will find success. If you adopt an IF playstyle (throw a tough unit at their scary unit and bludgeon it to death over 4 rounds of combat) with NL, they are gonna have a bad time. I think I speak for the 3 of us when I say we approached this list from the front end of the learning curve, and not the back end. I definitely agree though, advanced Night Lords play is something remarkable to behold!
List building to me is not a negative, but list options can be. Higher legions do have strong builds, but often have great strength without the build. Take Ultramarines for example, avoid the best list and they still shine. I feel Night Lords have one strong list and others I just dont have the same feeling about as opposed to others, and it requires something of your opponent. I personally always rank higher those who control their own fate. In fairness I want to revisit in a year and see once tons more games have been played how we and the community feel. Loving the strong NL push though.
you guys are so wrong about Salamanders. legion trait 100% worthless, reaction good but hurts you, flamer template is all of 8" long, 35 points for battle hardened(1) as gear, pyroclasts are tough but can be kited and have insignificant melee after getting within charge range to finally use their weapon, fire drakes are nice but become list warpingly expensive (hammer shield is 65ppm), the WLTs are not bad but the +1 ld vs pinning gets countered by their row which "ignores all modifiers to pinning tests" just bc they couldn't not write bad rules. how do you design your army to get use out of the legion trait? by writing your opponent's list. it is a legion being held together by an overhyped unit and an overpriced unit. There was obviously no effort put into the terrible design of this legion.
I commented on you’re overall thoughts on word bearers in a vid & unfortunately I have to agree we’re not that strong YET (hopefully). I played the other week & a lot in my group feel I’m half a book until ruinstorm comes out. I’m still going to build it differently till that happens then I’ll lean into lorgor, diabolists & Erebus for the summoning of daemons hopefully that will bring us up into maybe B teir. However I still think any legion can compete in HH unlike 40K & I’m going to build a fun serrated sun list with jet packs & drop pods even though I came close to iron hands or raven guard (love dreads & jet packs lol). Keep up the great work guys & look forward to you’re take on ruinstorm daemons whenever that drops 😈.
I feel the same way! I'm new to Horus Heresy, figured with the new edition it was time to jump in. Started a Dark Angels army for an Eskaton List, and started a Word Bearers army, with plans to also start an Iron Warrior army. When it came to Word Bearers, my first thought was, "But when do we get Ruinstorm rules?" It does feel that we are missing a solid 40% of our flavor right now. I felt the same with Iron Warriors, but only because when I started we were missing Mechanicum rules. I want to do my Iron Warriors similar to Word Bearers with daemons, and do the Warriors with robots. Hopefully they will release the Ruinstorm soon.
Yup - and I meant what I said on the podcast about waiting for daemon rules. For those who did not play in 1.0 - daemons were very - VERY CUSTIMIZABLE. Think old 4th edition tyranids - you had your base unit and you purchased "upgrades" that gave them different abilities. You could have a Deamon Behemoth that was T9 for the first 2 turns with 7 attacks at S10 with shred. It was nuts! I am hoping they kept that same level of customization. Or you could take "nurgle" troop units with 2 wounds and FNP 5+ with rerolling 5+ invul. It was just so cool the level of variation you had!
So all armies are decent I feel and anyone can beat anyone, though some are going uphill for it. Word Bearers still preform, they just do not inspire the confidence of other forces.
Sorry but the one guy was right EC A tier however the reason mentioned only a fraction of what EC does...You guys clearly haven't had 3 or 9 lol contempters outflank you in turn 2 and then appear in your backline. Also worth mentioning that Jump pack palatine blades move 13" in maru so get +3" to their charge and with power axes they are quite mean.
I think they are the lowest of the S tier but still S- tier. They have the ability to mix and match their wing abilities to whatever you're facing. Tactical Squads typically shoot other infantry so give them an Apothecary with the Dreadwing and if you need to shoot infantry cool but if you're facing a support squad with flammers, then bang you're harder to kill. Despoiler Squad with Deathwing for the power swords and chainswords but throw a Firewing Chaplain in the group and bam they can thrash command squads/independent characters or other infantry. The Devastator Squad has Ironwing but the Techmarine with them has Firewing. Now you can destroy either vehicles or command squads. So many options that you can face just about anyone and do well.
I have not tried mixing as much as you have, beyond the warlord or librarian in their squads, but once my apothecary and techmarine are done might feel different. For now, I just see enough times occur where any wing does not do what I want. Still think they are great though.
Your guys meta is way diffrent that mine. The Wolves are way up there as are the alphas, salmanders are the bottom of the bottom and the white scars are pretty bad as well.
Ohh thats definitely a thing for sure. This was a combo, at least in my mind, between meta as well as perception of strength. I want to revisit in a year when so many more games and options are out. I always lean the discussion a bit more towards what's in plastic since thats the easiest to get and is what is driving the new edition I feel.
@@terrainkickerspodcast I would be intersted in hearing it. It was interesting seeing diffrent takes on some legions and their strengths. There are a few that we all seem to agree on (Iron hands, Fists for example). The ones that I have a diffrent takes on is always intresting to see why other people have had diffrent view.
Emperor's children tactical marines are nothing to sniff at.... they scare me and I play imperial fists. The consistently going first with all their sergents is just tuff....
The expansion lists are considered still in testing as per gw community comment so in all honesty should not be classed as part of this Our group doesn't use There is enough to use and enough rules issues without adding beta rules Interesting to hear your scaling opinions Cheers
To clarify - when you say expansion list - you mean the Legend units no (pdf add ons)? I have heard some groups say no to their use, but for now we wanted to somewhat include them since a newer player might want to use em!
@@Trajann yes the expansions. I'm lucky I pretty much Own everything 16k in Alpha Legion and 8k in Mechanicum plus knights and Titans So I'm keen to use these expansions but with GW saying they are in testing it puts me off Some units are op as while others underpowered and doesn't make sense It's Just like the Imperial Armour updates fw did for 40k that didn't make sense I personally think it's about selling models I love heresy but a rules tidy would be really good right now moving into 2023 I note I thought the Primaris lightning and other imperial navy flyers would all be in an imperial navy add on as air support and plastic kits released for all Maybe in the future with an expansion They have human pilots so I undersrand why they are not astartes directly
As Dan pointed out, I have seen communities welcome the legacies and shun them. I understand they are in testing, but being a 40k player for a decade, I do not put much stock in that. I do not foresee a big overhaul of what is there for better or worse, but would love to be surprised. I have a suspicion they will say testing for the next few years or just say finalized without meaningful change. I do like the idea of a discussion of pure book and how they stack. Might need to be a show topic.
There was a recent one too with World Eaters vs. Stone Gauntlet.... it didn't turn out well. You can try to ignore them, but if they are the objective/are standing on the objective - than ignoring them is no longer a thing sadly :(
I skipped ahead to hear if WS have good rules and it was 5 minutes of talking about how the models are expensive :S And plastic jetbikes are spoiled now...
They are still good for sure, they just lack a little in our eyes. Does not mean they cant do well, but we didnt feel inspired by their traits and units.
Yeah, they feel a bit rushed or suffering from early book syndrome. Reavers pay more to upgrade from chain axes than vets from chain swords etc. Hopefully they get a bit more fleshed and balanced out in the future. Not sure if GW plans on doing that. You can deepstrike a lot of Justaerin if you want tho. Reavers are just kinda bad even compared to vets but especially for any other 2 wound infantry. All in all, it’s an overpriced legion, and I feel like it’s because they tried to make all of SoH stuff as options for genetic stuff, but later decided to make auto takes for other legions. :)
Just think there are a few issues. The Carnosan axe is just so bad compared to most other weapons and each unique thing pushes you in different directions. The reaction is a shooty one instead of a cc one so you need a good shooty unit or two in good places. It feels more like a UM or fists thing. The LTs are defensive cc and just don't work how they are intended (imo). In my last 10 games or so I've only benefitted from it about once per game. Pushes you towards w2 elite cc units. Its just not active enough and again,feels like something you'd see on IH or DG. That's before you look at how costly it is to tool up justaerin/reavers/vets etc. When I play vs fists 90% of his guns are bs5, his cc blocker units are high inv saves with solarite fists or dreads so LTs do nothing vs s10 ap1 ish. Same vs others,I can't stop them using their LTs but they seem to be able to negate mine pretty easily.
Yep, it’s a bit bland really. I can’t think of any other effective ways of utilizing the legion except deepstriking or outflanking your melee. I kinda suspect that GW did this in their playtests because otherwise SoH don’t have any advantages. Frankly, I’d just deep strike everything you can. There’s only so many units your opponent can/want’s to take with augury scanners. The bad thing is that if the opponent has a master of signals it’s 50-50 that you get tabled almost immediately.
@@DirtyMardi yeah agree. I just think an faq is needed to clarify and update/ fix a few things. Love the legion,they just don't play or work how they should/ were intended to
The guy who put Dark angels at F clearly hasn’t read the books properly haha. Inner knight cenobium are insane
I'm VERY interested in how much this has changed now. You should do another one.
Putting night lords in D tier I think is alittle under cutting them with the bulky rule and when they great their trait they get plus one to wound it very helpful especially with allowing there elite power armor units to punch above their weight
I agree it can go well, I just think there is always a problem when a fundamental rule needs conditions outside your control to make it happen. Yes bulky helps, but your opponent is going to have some bulky models too. I love their assault units, but your rule might not happen due to unit size and casualties. I feel a D can beat an S for sure, but its an uphill battle. I think Night Lords fit that. They have some great pieces, but you need some help to get them all to flow right, where as armies we ranked higher we feel have the parts they need going in. Always love to be proven wrong and I would like to revisit this in a years time with more games played and see how we feel.
Yeah have to agree with my co podcaster here. I love the nightlords rule don't get me wrong; but it relies more heavily on your opponents army/your opponent fucking up then most other armies. If you cannot smack something smaller than you, then you are a little out of luck! Especially with now Mechanicum out, and Custodes coming out soon, I feel like as a Night Lords player you reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally have to play carefully and limited to get your full usage (shoot what you want to charge to minimize their units, then charge them and hope they are smaller).
Thinking about it now, maybe I would upgrade them to C tier - but again it requires too many things to be set in place.
That being said, there is a local night lords player who plays like the gods themselves and is nigh on unbeatable. Practice does make perfect!
Yeah I think you undersell that they can use this in shooting and in CC. Its pretty good. They are not top teir but they are pretty good.
@@meatlaser I change my mind and put em in C tier XD
@@Trajann Also remeber its night time, You are scared, they are shooting you outside of 24" and you are -2 on your LD checks since their also within 12" of you. THEY ARE COMING OUT OF THE WALLS MAN! (I think they wil be really good in some situations and then TOTAL C tier in others. )
Agreed, Iron Hands are S-Tier aaaaaaall day long!
Yuuuuuuppppppp 😂
Putting them in S because contemptors are broken is kinda silly
@@SleepySoviet I agree, they are good, but breaking an already busted army comp (and then losing to the mirror match) or playing a specific counter to that same comp is neat, but not S-tier. They are overall strong if you end up in a gunfight, but have nothing once engaged. B+/A- imo
Dan and Dave, fight me!
-Steve
@@stealthvulture5594 solid A/A- for me. Good trait, good shooting, good RoW, but they’re far too balanced to be in the same tier as ultras and fists
So I do think Fury pushes them over the edge, but its also their ability to handle the boogieman not just be one. Being able to get more grav, including on the moritat, really helps them shine vs others weaknesses. Getting some character 3+ invuns doesnt hurt either. I do feel UM and IF have better individual options, but IH have a strength above the A tiers and gotta put everyone somewhere.
Raven guard gets to infiltrate all non-heavy infantry, which I think is the big kicker. You can equip Mor Deythan with meltas too. Which means you get to decide how it plays out in the beginning and be at the right place first.
I think the VIII should be higher based solely on its focus towards list building. But in this conversation list building was held as a negative idea.
Most of the higher ranked legions are all auto built lists. There's no thinking, no finesse. The only unit that comes close to auto include for the VIII are Night Raptors, and even then there are times where assault marines are the better choice.
I'm sure you'll say D just means uphill battle, but that's not what the VIII do.
Not necessarily uphill, but requiring more input than "here's my one unit that I easily know is good, times 3." A lot of the thoughts went into ease of play (the reason I didn't think Iron Hands was S-tier was because outside of breaking a broken list comp a little extra, they are good but not an autopilot army). Part of ease is being able to identify which units to take in what numbers. I also put weight on how well generic units meshed with Legion rules, hence Ultras and Fists as the two S-tier ("markerlights" and "I shoot on 2s" can be applied very broadly and easily to just about every unit, and both legions can make good use of the generic melee units as well with wargear, rites, and/or reactions), while the amount of thought and pickiness that goes into listbuilding a Legion like EC or SW lowers them.
Night Lords play like they read - gang up on the vulnerable smaller units, never pick a fair fight. It's a strategy that requires more thought than "lol 3++ save hammernator go smack". If you adopt a NL playstyle (pick on the weaker units) with IF, they will find success. If you adopt an IF playstyle (throw a tough unit at their scary unit and bludgeon it to death over 4 rounds of combat) with NL, they are gonna have a bad time.
I think I speak for the 3 of us when I say we approached this list from the front end of the learning curve, and not the back end. I definitely agree though, advanced Night Lords play is something remarkable to behold!
List building to me is not a negative, but list options can be. Higher legions do have strong builds, but often have great strength without the build. Take Ultramarines for example, avoid the best list and they still shine. I feel Night Lords have one strong list and others I just dont have the same feeling about as opposed to others, and it requires something of your opponent. I personally always rank higher those who control their own fate. In fairness I want to revisit in a year and see once tons more games have been played how we and the community feel. Loving the strong NL push though.
you guys are so wrong about Salamanders. legion trait 100% worthless, reaction good but hurts you, flamer template is all of 8" long, 35 points for battle hardened(1) as gear, pyroclasts are tough but can be kited and have insignificant melee after getting within charge range to finally use their weapon, fire drakes are nice but become list warpingly expensive (hammer shield is 65ppm), the WLTs are not bad but the +1 ld vs pinning gets countered by their row which "ignores all modifiers to pinning tests" just bc they couldn't not write bad rules.
how do you design your army to get use out of the legion trait? by writing your opponent's list.
it is a legion being held together by an overhyped unit and an overpriced unit. There was obviously no effort put into the terrible design of this legion.
I leave this to Steve to defend his boys in green.
I commented on you’re overall thoughts on word bearers in a vid & unfortunately I have to agree we’re not that strong YET (hopefully). I played the other week & a lot in my group feel I’m half a book until ruinstorm comes out. I’m still going to build it differently till that happens then I’ll lean into lorgor, diabolists & Erebus for the summoning of daemons hopefully that will bring us up into maybe B teir. However I still think any legion can compete in HH unlike 40K & I’m going to build a fun serrated sun list with jet packs & drop pods even though I came close to iron hands or raven guard (love dreads & jet packs lol). Keep up the great work guys & look forward to you’re take on ruinstorm daemons whenever that drops 😈.
I feel the same way! I'm new to Horus Heresy, figured with the new edition it was time to jump in. Started a Dark Angels army for an Eskaton List, and started a Word Bearers army, with plans to also start an Iron Warrior army. When it came to Word Bearers, my first thought was, "But when do we get Ruinstorm rules?" It does feel that we are missing a solid 40% of our flavor right now. I felt the same with Iron Warriors, but only because when I started we were missing Mechanicum rules. I want to do my Iron Warriors similar to Word Bearers with daemons, and do the Warriors with robots. Hopefully they will release the Ruinstorm soon.
Yup - and I meant what I said on the podcast about waiting for daemon rules. For those who did not play in 1.0 - daemons were very - VERY CUSTIMIZABLE. Think old 4th edition tyranids - you had your base unit and you purchased "upgrades" that gave them different abilities.
You could have a Deamon Behemoth that was T9 for the first 2 turns with 7 attacks at S10 with shred. It was nuts! I am hoping they kept that same level of customization. Or you could take "nurgle" troop units with 2 wounds and FNP 5+ with rerolling 5+ invul. It was just so cool the level of variation you had!
I’ve played against Word Bearers a few times (I play Dark Angels) and they do decent a lot of the time.
So all armies are decent I feel and anyone can beat anyone, though some are going uphill for it. Word Bearers still preform, they just do not inspire the confidence of other forces.
Sorry but the one guy was right EC A tier however the reason mentioned only a fraction of what EC does...You guys clearly haven't had 3 or 9 lol contempters outflank you in turn 2 and then appear in your backline. Also worth mentioning that Jump pack palatine blades move 13" in maru so get +3" to their charge and with power axes they are quite mean.
Dark Angels are easy S and you’re insane to put them anywhere else
I think they are the lowest of the S tier but still S- tier. They have the ability to mix and match their wing abilities to whatever you're facing. Tactical Squads typically shoot other infantry so give them an Apothecary with the Dreadwing and if you need to shoot infantry cool but if you're facing a support squad with flammers, then bang you're harder to kill. Despoiler Squad with Deathwing for the power swords and chainswords but throw a Firewing Chaplain in the group and bam they can thrash command squads/independent characters or other infantry. The Devastator Squad has Ironwing but the Techmarine with them has Firewing. Now you can destroy either vehicles or command squads. So many options that you can face just about anyone and do well.
@@TheRainman614 I tend to make my tactical marines Stormwing (for obvious reasons), but I may have to try your idea at some point
I have not tried mixing as much as you have, beyond the warlord or librarian in their squads, but once my apothecary and techmarine are done might feel different. For now, I just see enough times occur where any wing does not do what I want. Still think they are great though.
Blame Steve for that one lol.
@@terrainkickerspodcast Sedras alone puts them at S. Easy access to army wide PE is bonkers good
Your guys meta is way diffrent that mine. The Wolves are way up there as are the alphas, salmanders are the bottom of the bottom and the white scars are pretty bad as well.
Ohh thats definitely a thing for sure. This was a combo, at least in my mind, between meta as well as perception of strength. I want to revisit in a year when so many more games and options are out. I always lean the discussion a bit more towards what's in plastic since thats the easiest to get and is what is driving the new edition I feel.
@@terrainkickerspodcast I would be intersted in hearing it. It was interesting seeing diffrent takes on some legions and their strengths. There are a few that we all seem to agree on (Iron hands, Fists for example). The ones that I have a diffrent takes on is always intresting to see why other people have had diffrent view.
Emperor's children tactical marines are nothing to sniff at.... they scare me and I play imperial fists. The consistently going first with all their sergents is just tuff....
Tac v Tac, or with some lucky dice I completely agree.
The expansion lists are considered still in testing as per gw community comment so in all honesty should not be classed as part of this
Our group doesn't use
There is enough to use and enough rules issues without adding beta rules
Interesting to hear your scaling opinions
Cheers
To clarify - when you say expansion list - you mean the Legend units no (pdf add ons)? I have heard some groups say no to their use, but for now we wanted to somewhat include them since a newer player might want to use em!
@@Trajann yes the expansions. I'm lucky I pretty much
Own everything 16k in Alpha Legion and 8k in Mechanicum plus knights and Titans
So I'm keen to use these expansions but with GW saying they are in testing it puts me off
Some units are op as while others underpowered and doesn't make sense
It's Just like the Imperial Armour updates fw did for 40k that didn't make sense
I personally think it's about selling models
I love heresy but a rules tidy would be really good right now moving into 2023
I note I thought the Primaris lightning and other imperial navy flyers would all be in an imperial navy add on as air support and plastic kits released for all
Maybe in the future with an expansion
They have human pilots so I undersrand why they are not astartes directly
As Dan pointed out, I have seen communities welcome the legacies and shun them. I understand they are in testing, but being a 40k player for a decade, I do not put much stock in that. I do not foresee a big overhaul of what is there for better or worse, but would love to be surprised. I have a suspicion they will say testing for the next few years or just say finalized without meaningful change. I do like the idea of a discussion of pure book and how they stack. Might need to be a show topic.
Let’s be completely honest, you don’t buy a chagorian bro army, you buy a 3D printer...
In the modern world yes. Unless your rich lol.
35:00 Miniwargaming also did a stone gauntlet vs alpha legion, turns out the solution is simply ignore the phalanx warders
There was a recent one too with World Eaters vs. Stone Gauntlet.... it didn't turn out well. You can try to ignore them, but if they are the objective/are standing on the objective - than ignoring them is no longer a thing sadly :(
Long as there are not so many that they can be ignored I agree.
I skipped ahead to hear if WS have good rules and it was 5 minutes of talking about how the models are expensive :S
And plastic jetbikes are spoiled now...
Ohh it will help for sure. I wouldnt change their placement because I feel GW has overvalued what bikes do but it helps for sure.
My poor SoH
They are still good for sure, they just lack a little in our eyes. Does not mean they cant do well, but we didnt feel inspired by their traits and units.
Yeah, they feel a bit rushed or suffering from early book syndrome. Reavers pay more to upgrade from chain axes than vets from chain swords etc. Hopefully they get a bit more fleshed and balanced out in the future. Not sure if GW plans on doing that.
You can deepstrike a lot of Justaerin if you want tho. Reavers are just kinda bad even compared to vets but especially for any other 2 wound infantry.
All in all, it’s an overpriced legion, and I feel like it’s because they tried to make all of SoH stuff as options for genetic stuff, but later decided to make auto takes for other legions. :)
Just think there are a few issues.
The Carnosan axe is just so bad compared to most other weapons and each unique thing pushes you in different directions.
The reaction is a shooty one instead of a cc one so you need a good shooty unit or two in good places. It feels more like a UM or fists thing.
The LTs are defensive cc and just don't work how they are intended (imo). In my last 10 games or so I've only benefitted from it about once per game. Pushes you towards w2 elite cc units. Its just not active enough and again,feels like something you'd see on IH or DG.
That's before you look at how costly it is to tool up justaerin/reavers/vets etc.
When I play vs fists 90% of his guns are bs5, his cc blocker units are high inv saves with solarite fists or dreads so LTs do nothing vs s10 ap1 ish.
Same vs others,I can't stop them using their LTs but they seem to be able to negate mine pretty easily.
Yep, it’s a bit bland really. I can’t think of any other effective ways of utilizing the legion except deepstriking or outflanking your melee. I kinda suspect that GW did this in their playtests because otherwise SoH don’t have any advantages. Frankly, I’d just deep strike everything you can. There’s only so many units your opponent can/want’s to take with augury scanners. The bad thing is that if the opponent has a master of signals it’s 50-50 that you get tabled almost immediately.
@@DirtyMardi yeah agree.
I just think an faq is needed to clarify and update/ fix a few things. Love the legion,they just don't play or work how they should/ were intended to
Totally agree on Sons of Horus... a Horus legion in game called HORUS heresy is just a punching bag. Playing SoH is waste of time.
The two sides do not feel on equal footing out of the box, Sons of Horus vs Imperial Fists. I want them to feel like the big bad but they just dont.