Don't Buy A Vintage CD Player Or Blu Ray Player Without Looking For This!
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- People are buying CDs again and asking me what to look for in a vintage CD player or a cheap blu ray player. As I explain in this video, I always tell them if they find one to buy, make sure they look for one feature in particular if they ever want to upgrade the sound performance in the future.
Watch my review of the Cambridge AXC35 CD Player: • Cambridge AXC35 CD Pla...
How to connect DAC to CD Player: • How To Connect A CD Pl...
If you liked this video, please visit my blog and sign up for my mailing list: www.foreveranalog.net
Buy my records via Discogs: www.discogs.com/seller/hartle...
Buy my vintage audio themed t-shirts via Etsy: www.etsy.com/shop/ForeverAnalog 
Видеоклипы
![J.P., NLE Choppa - Bad Bitty (Remix) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rBDa6BCvw10/mqdefault.jpg)
Mentioned by others, in addition to optical and RCA/coax/cinch digital outs, HDMI is another digital out option and can easily be converted without loss to optical or coax with low cost HDMI "digital audio extractors"
Also as you mention, part of the fun of collecting disc players (CD, DVD or BluRay) is listening to their analog outs for differences in their DACs and analog output stages. SOme vintage disc players have very nice sounding analog outs and vintage DAC chips not made any longer
IMO, no different than vinyl fans trying different turntables, carts and phono preamps
I agree with you on it being the same as vinyl fans swapping out cartridges to get different sound! I notice better digital performance when upgrading my DACs in the same way analog performance improved with a better cartridge.
I collect and use old CD players. I have never noticed a difference in sound quality between any of them. No matter if they use ladder-tyoe DAC chips like the Philips TDA-1541 or the newer Bit Stream chips from ESS.
I did some blind tests on my friends, schiit modi vs Internal DAC of a vintage JVC Cd player. Result: nobody was able to differentiate one from the other.
Very interesting!
Just to say, the result of such a listening test will depend heavily on the amplifier and speaker combination, and how revealing they are, trying your test on a very resolving/revealing amp and speaker combination will allow you to hear differences that a less resolving/revealing combination just won't allow you to notice, the chances are high that it is for that reason you didn't really notice a difference between them, believe me when I say that through the right speaker and amp combination, you really will notice a difference, the only thing about having such a revealing speaker amp combination is that it will also show up the flaws in the recordings you listen too, as well as the difference in the source component, some will sound way better but some can sound way worse.
I’ve done the same tests and the only time I’ve been able to tell a difference is when I’m wearing my expensive $500 headphones and thousand dollar headphone DAC amp otherwise for normal listening around the house on regular speakers it all sounds the same. I think the reason there’s so much controversy about this is because it really could go both ways… If you’re really looking for that critical ear listening experienced and yes it makes a difference but otherwise it doesn’t really matter for the average listener.
Agree. So much depends on the receiver, speakers, quality of recordings, etc, that it’s hard to make a general statement that others will not hear a difference on their system when using an external DAC. That is what makes this all so much fun for me lol. Thanks for the comment!
Audiophilia - where science meets religion, and religion usually wins.
And just like religion, it'll end up costing a ton of money and lead to never-ending arguments that never reach any satisfactory conclusion.
When buying a used DVD/BluRay player, check if it has the most recent firmware installed. In many cases it's still available for download on manufacturer's website. Also check if there are functions protected by a password set by previous owner.
Great advice thank you
@@ForeverAnalog Actually, you don't always want the latest firmware. You might get Cinevia and/or lose SACD-R playback.
Hmmm... I do agree with you on being able to upgrade but the specs on that Denon are Signal to Noise Ratio · 103dB ; Total harmonic distortion · 0.004%. The DAC is pretty good, so if you find an old Denon, Yamaha or equiv for a good price, it may be worth the pickup. I can tell you the older Yamaha S BIT DACs are phenominal.
Yep. Part of the fun is picking up different players to listen to and hear how they sound, upgraded or not! Thanks for watching.
Specific model numbers/years for Yamaha S Bit DAC disc players?
I recently picked up a refurbished Pioneer PD X88 from a "pro". It looks a lot like the Denon unit in the video. I am shocked at how loud the volume output is on the CD player. The volume knob on my Creek 4240 amp is at the lowest setting and it's still loud. I had to buy an RCA attenuator (it's still in shipping). And that RCA gizmo cost 1/2 the price of the CD player.
Enjoyed the video , Great advice sir, I’ve been instructing many I know to do the same looking for such type disc players in the event they want to upgrade or even just utilize the DACs in modern current receivers 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
Awesome. Thank you for watching and the encouraging comment!
This is a great video for newcomers to our hobby. I have been listening to Pink Floyd DSOTM since 1975 when I was in the Navy. It was an 8 track! Fast forward, I bought the vinyl, in 1985 I bought the CD and years later bought the MFSL gold CD and I thought this was the best sound ever. Recently I bought the Schiit Audio Modi 3 and used an older DVD player as a transport and I was blown away! I heard things on that CD that I had never heard before. I have heard that CD many many times and it was like a brand new experience for me! I'm listening to CDs constantly now that I'm retired.
I always enjoy when I hear something new on an album I’ve listened to hundreds of times before!
😂🤣
I never stopped buying CDs. Bugger messing around with modern vinyl records.
me too i dont have room for records
And records are about 2/3 times dearer@@MyDude63
yep - they are basically CDs pressed to vinyl records. You're paying £35 for wow, flutter, surface noise and storage problems. An absolute bargain.
I use cd, vinyl and stream.
This is the one thing that realised just yesterday when I was looking get myself a vintage gear. Looking at all those CD players I noticed they rarely have S/PDIF and all DACs now have them. Great video, very specific :)
Thank you for watching and the encouraging comment!
That's because those outputs weren't offered on TRUE vintage gear.
This video should have been titled: If you want to upgrade the DAC on a used CD player from the early 2000s.
@@1ring2rule3pigs I was born in 1990, for me that stuff is vintage, stuff prior like 1970, 1980 is ancient :)
Around 1990 most decent CD players only had optical outs, this was mainly to output to MiniDisc recorders if I recall.
Great point!I agreea modern bluray player can beas efficient as those audiophile cd players
This is so interesting. Food for thought. Thank you.
Thank you for watching!
Yes I bought a nice used Pioneer from a local charity shop for $6. It has a digital out which I connected to a cheap KAGUSS DAC without appreciating exactly what I was doing, but I couldn’t believe how good long familiar CDs sounded. Same seems to be true of putting a modern DAC in my computer sourced and WIim streaming sources. Now I understanding why much better.
It's always fun when we discover how to improve sound!
So true ! Options are great to have and I fully agree with your opinion on this :- ) Nice point here !
Thank you for watching!
Let's keep things in perspective. These older CD players were perfectly sufficient in quality to convince the vast majority of people to shift from vinyl and cassettes to CDs throughout the late 80s, 90s and 00s. At best a change of DAC is a relatively subtle change in sound.
Personally, the headphone output and physical transport controls on the CD player would be much more valuable to me in general use than the digital out on the Blu Ray.
I have noticed when I use the optical output of my ASUS ROG Maximux z690 APEX into a SMSL m300 I get far better sound quality than when running from the 3.5mm output using the motherboard's DAC.
I think this is why people do prefer the digital out options on any CD player. I agree that this shouldn't make a difference, but I cannot deny that it does.
@@starker1971 There's a few too many variables at play with computer audio to attribute the sound quality change to the DAC alone. In the digital domain your USB DAC should be getting a bit perfect stream of the source digital audio whereas the motherboard's is receiving data which has been through Windows' internal audio processing (resampling etc.). In the analogue domain you're then dealing with two different pre/headphone amplifiers before hearing the audio.
That said, I'm not saying DACs can't or don't make a difference . What I am saying is that (unlike a computer) a component CD player is a specialist piece of audio gear designed for the sole purpose of producing high quality sound from CDs and usually they do achieve this sufficiently well to not need an external DAC.
@@snapea CD specialist manufactured when ?? In my comparison Windows is producing the sound in both cases.
@@starker1971 Do you have a CD player you're unhappy with the sound of? My oldest is 34 years old, newest is 5. I never feel any desire to forego their tactile controls and play CDs via my bluray player and DAC combo. YMMV of course.
@@snapea I don't have a CD player I dislike enough to attempt the DAC bypass. I am using it with my computer. I like it primarily because I noticed the optical input from PC to Aiyima T9pro. I often use my PC for my hobby of comparing passive speakers. I run these on several ChiFi amps. When I am not gaming using the PC's built in 7.1 3.5mm outputs, I am in 2-channel. The separate DAC allows me to process PC's optical to a 3.5mm LR as input to all the amps. So now I don't have to worry about which Amp supports an optical or digital coaxial input.
I have not done a good A-B comparison of an old CD RCA output with a digital interconnect. That isn't the reason I bought the separate DAC.
I do wonder, if I am able to hear a difference between my PC and the SMSL, doesn't this suggest some improvement may be attained with updated DACs with older CD players ? This is not my focus right now and I don't claim any of this to be productive at all.
Good point. I did see another's recent video question future availability of good CD players, and recommended transports and DACs, ranging from a Cambridge as starter to much more expensive. Fine, if you can make it work for a lot of separates, or a digital focused 'simple' system. I cannot without changing almost everything I have. But I have a just got balanced headphones and a headphone amp-DAC (small and NO pre-line out) with several sources, including Denon DCD 1400 (from 1990) connected, which bypasses my vintage NAD integrated amp and speakers.
Nice! Thanks for watching!
Digital output is definitely a welcome feature on a older CD player but IMHO what is even more important is the availability of reasonably priced replacement laser optical pickup units. I suggest always researching what pick up is in a particular CD player and whether replacements are easily available.
Great advice, thank you. I once bought a used player that died on me and the replacement laser was more expensive than buying a brand new unit lol!
Great explanation 👌 Thank you!
Thank you!
That is true and I have tested many CD players. Of course it is nice to have the possibility to go through a premium new DAC but like you say, I have been surprised positively many times by vintage DAC inside CD players especially from sony and rotel.
Awesome. I’ve heard great vintage DACs too. Thanks for the comment!
This is a good point, I will be considering a vacuum tube DAC in the future. Thanks for the vid.
Thank you. I’ve yet to hear a tube DAC but would love to listen to one in the future!
@@ForeverAnalog I have an older CD player no digital out, but have been running it through my vintage Fisher tube integrated amp. Have taken that offline to get restored so running through one of my 1970s receivers right now, CDs now do not sound as good. The bottom line is if you want really good sounding CDs run it through tubes. At least in my opinion. Also interested in that little bear amp and speaker switcher in your other video, love those meters.
The One Little Bear has a been a fun addition to my system!
I have three CD players in my setup in which are a Yamaha CD-n301, Sony CDP-591 and a Pioneer CLD-D780 laserdisc/CD combo player which have an optical digital output, this is the one I mainly play my CD collection because I heard from somewhere that laserdisc player is perfect for CD playback too.
Great video!
Thank you!
I had a Yamaha CD player from around 1989 that had Toslink I connected right to my 2015 Pioneer Elite amp…count me amongst the folks who couldn’t tell the difference between and the analog output.
To each his own. It’s nice to have options. I will say those vintage Denons are great in their own right and were known for having good built-in DACs.
My current research says Toslink isn’t much better than RCA so that might explain some things. And you are right, part of the fun of this hobby is finding the gear that sounds best in your system, no matter the age!
I have a Pioneer SACD player. I've tested going into my receiver with the standard phono connection and a coaxial cable into the DAC of my receiver.
Without a doubt, the audio quality is improved by using the newer DAC of my receiver.
I don't care to debate what my ears or others hear. If you're satisfied with what you have, it's your time, space, and money. Enjoy the music 🎶
Awesome! Thank you for sharing!
If you're plugging your cd player into your phone I put, then I have no doubt literally any other hook up would sound better.
That external DAC might be better if you are using a very low end CD/DVD player, but there's a lot of very low end external DAC's on the market with a very attractive low price which is just wasting an extra step to get lower sound quality. If you have a high end receiver with a digital input, you may as well go direct digital output from the player to the receiver. There are many older CD/DVD units with a built in Burr Brown DAC which are used in many high end players as well as audiophile equipment. Best to check out some high end DVD players as they have the best transport and higher bit rate conversion which a lot of budget audiophiles go for. Be on the lookout for the high end DVD players that are compatible with SACD, which is an added bonus if you want to the best quality sound achievable without sitting in a recording studio. Most SACD compatible high end DVD players will play regular CDs better than most quality CD players.
I bought a used Sony CDP-XE520 back in 2015 because the DVD Player I used always vibrated too much when I'm listen to CDs.
The player has analog and digital output and reads CD-Text which I don't want to miss again.
Awesome. Sounds like a great purchase!
Something else to consider when looking at a Blu-ray or DVD player. Some of them only have HDMI out. You should avoid those and make sure you buy one that has analog outs Along with a digital out. That way you can use it with the belt in DAC if you want to.
Great point thank you!
Let's say my BD player is connected to my TV via HDMI, but the TV outputs via optical to an external DAC? Would I be correct in saying that the player then is also just sending the digital audio transport via the TV to the DAC, if that makes sense?
I’m more of a two channel stereo guy so I can’t speak with total certainty but I bet someone here will know for sure! Right now, I just lazily use a sound bar for TV audio lol.
@@ForeverAnalog lol, fair enough. I'm lazily using the Google TV OS on my TV to stream digital audio from e.g. Tidal. That outputs via an optical SPDIF into a cheapie FiiO D3 DAC which is hooked up via RCA to my 2 channel amp. My logic seems to think that as HDMI is digital, then the signal coming from the BD player would not be via its own DAC. 🤷♂️
Another interesting thing to look for in an older model (or some newer models, you never know) is the RCA sockets.
I personally hate Blu-Ray discs because I am not impressed with the HD quality (clear prints are one thing but HD really kills the atmosphere on some movies, just my view on things) and I like DVD quality better. I managed to create a setup using my DVD recorder and a broken but still functioning older model recorder and make a DVD copy of some of my Blu-Ray discs VCR-style (I use the same setup for ripping copy-protected DVDs I rent from the video stores years ago). The final product looks really nice and I could only do that thanks to my sister's Blu-Ray player with its RCA sockets.
I also watch DVDs through my PS3 hooked up to an old Hitachi CRT TV through a VCR and I love that feeling of watching the kind of signals I spent my childhood on (actually it feels like I'm watching some personal cable TV station playing whatever I want)...
I have the. Oppo BD105 Blu-ray player and love it! Does everything but dry your cloths
Heck it even has sub and XRL outs
I'm just praying it doesn't die on me
Oh l use the digital out from my Oppo to my Exogal Comet Plus DAC
The best vintage CD players I have are: Kenwood (1 bit) & Technics (18 bit). The only downside is both don't read CDR selections I burn on my PC. A good alternative solution I have is I play my CDRs on Toshiba DVD player which has 192 kbps and 24 bit specs. They sound wonderful in my tube pre-amp and single ended triode power amp which are connected to my KEF speakers. I only connect audio out to my pre-amp and set aside the video. I also play DVD concerts in the Toshiba player and sound reproduction in my tube audio system is awesome. My audio friends were blown away with performance of the Toshiba both for CD and DVD audio. The Kenwood (1 bit), Technics (18 bit) and Toshiba (24 bit) are so affordable. My two friends who bought the same models are happy and satisfied. Test the gears with your favorite CDs and DVD discs before buying.
Hi. What model of Toshiba?
Hi what model of Toshiba?
@@blasest i own model nos. SD-890KR and SD-680KA. There are plenty of other Toshiba models and brands being sold at amazon & other shops. Just check they have high resolution progressive scan and specs with 192kpbs and 24 bit (with remote control). Being used electronic item its best to test with your favorite CD and DVD discs if possible. Happy hunting!
One additional point; vintage CD players (say 20 years or older) almost certainly need their electrolytic capacitors replaced by new ones; they are electronic components that age (electrolyte dries out). This not only affects sound quality, but the higher ESR (equivalent series resistance) of old dried-out caps used in the servo circuitry for the transport can cause both focusing and tracking issues (skipping). Often the laser is blamed for this but semiconductor lasers are _very_ robust and rarely fail unless someone has increased the laser current in a misguided attempt to get a skipping player working again.
Once re-capped, the older Marantz & Philips players with the radial arm transport mechanisms (CDM-1, CDM-4) are one of the most reliable vintage transports to get.
Great point, thank you.
do most dvd players play audio non mp3 cds gapless? which brand should I go for when shopping if I want this feature? i have a lot of continuous mix cds.
My Vintage Marantz CD-player has both options; internal DAC analog outputs and digital outputs if you want to use something else.
Awesome. I had a Marantz SACD player that I found in a pawn shop but unfortunately the laser died.
Great video. Have subscribed😉
Thank you, Ken.
I don't know why I can't seem to get my vintage CD player to work with my DAC going through the coaxial
Can the analog output (or input) of a 1995 vintage dual cassette deck be made digital by using one of these DACs?
Couple of thoughts. . . It's not necessary to have both coaxial and optical outputs like the unit you showed. A lot of CD players have optical only, and a few (usually newer ones) have coaxial only. Either will work, you just need the correct cable. Also, I have used a switcher to run multiple devices into the same DAC. I like this because it makes everything consistent.
Thank you for the information!
Thank you for the switcher tip. I need this!
I still have an old 4 way switcher for the Scart stuff I no longer have. Before adding it to the pile of stuff being let go during moving, I found that while it's 4x scart, 2 have just rca line in's, and the other 2 have coax and optical ins, and the output has both.
After a bit of testing, turns out it works pretty well for switching between my dvd players' coax and the optical out from PC.
It always worked, but was not feeding into a DAC back when it in use.
Will all blue ray players play audio cds?
I have a Pioneer PD-F908. Would never consider using its internal DAC.
Also have a Yamaha CDX480 that easily sounds good enough to use standalone with a pair of headphones plugged into the front.
All vintage equipment will look similar but it really boils down to how much the unit cost new.
I have a Sony CDP-315 and it does indeed have digital out. I think I paid around $60 for it, even came with the remote. I've never even tried the built-in DAC. Just run it straight to the external.
Awesome. I find those CDP models often in thrift stores. Part of the reason I made this video. You can find a cheap player with a digital out and go with the external DAC of your choice.
The craze among audiophiles for ever more expensive DAC's is just nuts! Like the craze for ever more expensive moving coil cartridges. I bought a $100 Khadas KTB DAC to use with my cheap secondhand JVC DVD player ($26 from eBay). The combination sounds excellent - but so does the JVC by itself! I am an audiophile and own enough vintage gear - tube and transistor - to fill a store. My favorite speakers are Quad 57's (two pairs), Rogers LS3/5A's and DCM Time Windows. So I know good sound!
I still love listening to different DACs but they aren’t for everyone. Thanks for watching!
There are usually some great buys on higher end used gear out there, even if you're not the super lucky person that finds the like-new Roksan Caspian at the local Goodwill for $12! Take the time to research a bit.
One other thing. There are cheap MD recorder units with great vintage DACs, put a disc in on record and paused to turn it into a DAC.
CD player with the analog output only can't you just buy a analog to digital converter?
I have a Phillips cd618 with the swing arm laser I have swapped out the op amps ,and modded to non oversampling still not sure if non oversampling is a great idea.
I have a Sony BDP S760, and I love it. The only complaint is that it takes a long time to get ready.
Not as long as the Sony tv I bought last year. That was so slow I gave it away
For vintage sound i have a 1968 stereogram that has an input jack.
And also extra output for external 15 ohm speakers.
I got lucky and found a Pioneer DV-C505 CD/DVD player for eight bucks at Goodwill and it does have the digital output I hooked it up to my Sony STR-DE705 receiver and it sounds great but I think the tall speaker columns probably have a lot to do with it!
Awesome find!
I got my first CD player in 1985 and I've been sold on CD's ever since. I have some CD's that are 40 years old now with thousands of plays and they still sound exactly the same way every time I have played them. 👍🏻😎
Awesome!
Yo
We are still in the extrapolation phase really, but estimated lifespan of properly stored pressed CDs (not recordable ones) is continuously being adjusted upward by the manufacturers. I think we are at an estimated 100-200 years now. In short, no-one really knows yet but they now do seem pretty sure that your CDs will outlive you at least... 😁
CD's for the Win
@@maidsandmuses I've certainly had a few old cd-r / cd-rw's break down over the years, and fairly randomly.
Have only had a very small amount of proper cd's bought early 1990's deteriorate, and mostly user error like leaving them on a windowsill for a long time.
There was some large study started by the US Library of Congress some years ago that was looking into it scientifically, but apart from a few outliers like from some manufacturing plant in England where disks would 'bronze' over time, not quite sure how the results went.
My concern with buying a vintage CD player is not so much the overall sound quality of the DAC, but more so the CD "error correction/tracking" ability of the unit.
As sad as it is to say, my old vintage single tray unit has issues playing any disc that isn't pretty much scratch free. Where as, the $30 LG DP132H DVD player currently sold at Wally World I just bought, reads and plays any CD music I put in it. Even played my "unplayable" copy of Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms CD. Which looks like it was cleaned with 120 grit sand paper.
A video on what to look for in the way of error correction features in old vintage players would be awesome, if you have the inclination/interest to do so. As I think this aspect of "what to look for" in a vintage unit might be just as important as the digital outputs on the back.
Thanks for your time. Good video! Liked & Subbed. 👍
These are great points - I have tried, unsuccessfully, to repair vintage CD players and found that most of the parts are no longer available, especially the lasers, so I just recycle them. Wish they were easier to repair!
@@ForeverAnalog Hey thanks for the reply! I just picked up an old ADC "Sound Shaper" SS-412X passive Equalizer, in almost perfect condition. No book with it though.
I can say that the market for vintage EQs with lcd type graphic displays is hot. And has been for the last few years. These units are fetching a pretty penny on eBay, right now. I just have to figure out how to hook it up. 😂
Any experience with these? If so, maybe consider making a video on this topic. It would possibly help quite a few folks down the road (other than myself). I only mention all this because there arw surprisingly few videos on YT describing how to do this. Might bump your channel view count up very quickly. Regardless, thanks again for your reply.
Interesting idea. Do you mean how to connect an EQ in general or just the lcd version you mention?
@@ForeverAnalog Yes, how to correctly connect a "passive" EQ of any type, into a home stereo system's receiver/amplifier.
The procedure is probably a "no brainer" for some folks. But since I've only owned home stereo receivers with "built in" graphic EQs (JVC RX500B & SONY STR-AV710), I've actually never done it. And because both of these already incorporate EQs within the units themselves, there is absolutely zero info in their manuals in regard to how one would go about doing so.
I’ll look into it! I just need to stumble on an EQ (or check my hoard pile and see if there is one hiding lol)
you opened my mind !!!
Welcome to the other side! lol. Thanks for watching!
My vintage cd player just bit the dust. Sony D-828k. Instead of spending $$ to fix it, im trying to see if i have something already before buying another vintage cd player. How does the sound coming out of an xbox 360 compare to a dedicated cd player? Im considered buying that same Schiit amplifier, but for a Denon Dcd 570 cd player(used.) Im using Koss pro 4aa 250ohm headphones. *denon dvd-1930ci
Just remember to to put your audio jacks in the correct mode in the player's menu system:
*Bitstream* = sound through the HDMI
*PCM* = sound through optical/coax
Great advice thank you!
Great idea
Thank you!
What about a good DVD player as a good CD player..and..qich is better for audio recidivas.. a CDR player or a good DVD..or even more
Computar recording is better than the other 2 ..or not
Have you synced, equalized volumes, and done an a/b test in audacity to see if there is any difference at all? I am skeptical there is any difference unless there is something actually wrong with the built in dac.
I did a test between a new Sony blu-ray and the Cambridge AXC35 in another video and couldn't tell much difference when using digital outputs on both players into my Emotiva preamp where they were using the same DAC (which makes sense). I could hear a difference compared to the Sony blu-ray digital output (it does not have RCA) vs the Cambridge AXC35 RCA output where it uses the internal Wolfson DAC. So yeah...have to be careful to compare apples to apples or in this case, DAC to DAC, lol.
I’m really digging that Schitt DAC.
Me too, I'd love to upgrade to their Bifrost DAC at some point!
Old CD players often had the digital signal internally but just no connector on the cheaper model. Easy mod if you know what you’re doing.
Good info. So in theory I can connect a player thru Digital Coaxial (or toslink) directly to a receiver with good internal DAC and bypass an external one?
Yes, that is correct!
Great video. So if I've got a BluRay player with only HDMI out, and that's connected to the TV, and the AV out of the TV is plugged into an older Receiver for sound (no digital inputs), does that mean I'm using the TV's DAC when playing CDs? How do TV DACs (an older Sharp in this case) compare? Likewise, how about playing CDs on a computer just using your average sound card. This video has inspired me to start playing physical CDs again. Although I'm a bit wary of putting additional wear on my existing (non-dedicated CD player) gear.
Full disclosure, I'm a two channel stereo guy so HDMI and TV connections aren't necessarily my forte when it comes to music playback, but I believe the answer is that the equipment where the digital connection ends will use the DAC inside to convert the signal to analog. So in your example, the receiver's DAC is being used. I always appreciate anyone with a little more TV/HDMI experience to weigh in and confirm or correct me as needed, lol.
Most DACs included in regular consumer electronics, especially computers, can be improved with an external DAC. The DAC chips used in these common devices are what Paul at PS Audio calls "throw away DACs", meaning the manufacturers use the most cost effective chips since the goal of the device isn't 100% audio. Your computer is meant to do lots of things so Apple and Dell aren't spending a lot to make sure the DAC inside is top notch (if that makes sense). So the DAC chips included do the job, but they will not perform as well as an external DAC where the engineer designed it to do nothing BUT produce the best audio possible.
I hope this is helpful. CD players can be found everywhere these days for a good price so I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a dedicated player with digital outs if you stumble on one.
If you are skilled enough (not very, actually) and attached to your vintage analogue CD player (
You can do the same thing with HDMI if your DAC/AV receiver supports HDMI.
Yep I don’t use AVRs much these days but you are correct.
The good Vintage player are a good unite between dac and Transport, very hard to beat
hey everyone, so i found a blu ray/cd player in my house. I flipped it over and it has a digital outpout, but it doesn't have an optical switch. Can i improve the DAC?
I just use coaxial
Hi, I would like to read some guidance.
I'll start by mentioning what I have at the moment so it's easier to help me. I have an AT-LP120XUSB Turntable, Speakers Edifier S1000 MKII.
My need is basically to have a device no more than $400 US that allows me to listen to my CDs taking advantage of the speakers I have for now which are pre-amplified (powered speakers). Surely later I will choose to upgrade to passive speakers. Likewise, I want one that could be versatile as much as possible, that is, that allows powered and passive speakers to be directly connected to the device, I'd like also and less important one with a USB input (for playing digital files in which the artists stopped releasing the disc) even more so, this being not more relevant that I can connect my turntable too. I do not pretend to upgrade anything for a while since this hobby is too expensive. As you can see, I have no extensive knowledge. What solution do you offer me to take advantage of the current speakers and play my CDs. Moreover, I gave my mom a Yamaha HTR- 5630 that was given to me from a friend, but that Receiver is not matching with my Powered speakers.
Do you have a better suggestion for what I'm looking for and what I'm counting on? Having said that. I will also list the options I have been checking.
1) Yamaha CD-S303 $380 US. Reading and listening to reviews, it seems that for its features it has an inflated price (I don't know that). 2) Denon Bluetooth Receiver RCD-N10 $400 US. This has many attractive features, but my focus is not on the Wireless features and streaming. So this being the one that attracts me the most, if you know of one with a similar one but that DOES NOT have Bluetooth and Streaming, it would be much better because it would save me money. 3) Marantz CD6007 $600. But it is out of my budget, since it is possible that it does not exceed $400. 4) Denon DCD-900NE $500. Thank you so much.
Best regards.
How do you know an external DAC is better than the in-built one in a player?
I use external DACs with all my players so for me it’s just by trial and error.
I thought I was right with a Philips player, it had an extra socket on the back, however it turned out to be a remote control input (I had to download the manual to find out)
However when I lidded it, and looked up the chipset, the main IC supported digital out, it was just not fitted.
An hour with a soldering iron and I was able to fit the necessary parts. Of course what was needed was not in the players technical manual, however the chip datasheet showed a suggested circuit. problem solved.
Amazing work!
Thank you ... I always wondered
Thank you for watching!
I found dvd/sacd/cd combo players have pretty good internal dacs because of the implied demand for better quality sacd playback.
Why would different DACs sound different? Either the digital data is being properly reconstructed into the analog waveform that it encodes, or it isn't. Is it about filtering out quantization noise? At 44,100 Hz, that shouldn't be audible in the first place. So what kind of differences would there be?
There are many things that can make a difference, the same dac chip with different circuitry can sound very different, if you look around in detail it some dac chips, the same one can be used in a low end dac or cd player, but also in a very expensive version of those, the chip its self makes less of a difference to the sound than all the components in the circuit supporting the chip, basically the way the chip is implemented in the device makes all the difference, some very old dac chips have been used in far more modern and quite expensive cd players and dac's.
My cd player is using an older BurrBrown P58p. It came out in 1990 and it is still one of the better DACs out there.
I'm still using an early 2000s Sony 5 disc cd/DVD carousel charger. It's has the rca line output as well as digital output and hdmi output. If moved on to using a UHD DVD player for videos but am holding on to that Sony because for a long time carousel changers weren't very available.
Awesome!
@@ForeverAnalog yep best part is I've owned it since I purchased it from Crutchfield decades ago. Buy decent stuff it lasts. Looking at their website now the cheapest single player is $300
I was into buying digital music for a few years but now I'm seeing cds are cheaper sometimes than Amazon mp3. I've also discovered flac files an EAC to make files to play in my truck that doesn't have a cd player like most new vehicles.
Also if buying a Blu-ray player not all come with manual play, skip and stop buttons. So look out for that otherwise you will need the remote and/or TV to control.
Very true!
Agreed. There is much debate about DACs, but I believe they are one element in audio systems that has steadily improved over the years. I don't think vintage CD players should be thought of as the equivalent of good, vintage amps (really old CD players can sound surprisingly unsatisfying). Nevertheless, DACs are still only one element in sound reproduction. A slightly older, higher-end CD player with superior internal mechanisms and stages (even with no digital out) can sound better than a cheap Blu-ray player with a newer DAC. With digital output, though, you can use an external DAC or even just the DAC in a newer receiver or integrated amplifier, so I agree that such an output is something to look for when buying.
Yes. I agree with you as well! Thank you for watching and commenting!
One of the things that stood out at the time of my upgrading dvd player back in the day, was it having dual lenses instead of the one that needs refocusing. There were not many, but the Sony dvp-s7700 is quite a beast with a dvd or a cd being played. Good enough that I sold off my Marantz cd63se, though in hindsight I should have held onto that cd player.
Not sure of a bluray player that also does a dual or even triple lens.
I got that exact same Sony at goodwill. It even had the remote and a blue ray inside of it🎉
All for 10$
Awesome
Hi there, great video. I have a 4K Blu-ray player which has both Toslink and Coaxial Digital outputs, as well as a second (audio only) HDMI output. Can anyone recommend a DAC that supports multiple 5.1 (or even higher) channel formats?
Did you find any?
Does the modern dac make it sound louder?
I didn’t notice an increase in sound.
Thank you
Make sure to look for DVD/SACD players as well.
I actually prefer my xa20es DAC with a tube line level amp. Tung Sol tubes.
There are 2 ways of it, every audio equipment has different characteristic of the sound, new not means better, is better on a paper and technical specs but doesn’t mean it sound better. somehow i do prefer vintage sound then modern dacs as many of them are very synthetic design for network streaming or poor players. if you get good vintage cd player can easily bit modern dacs. it’s the same with new amplifiers or those class D or fully digital, vintage class AB or A simply sound better than those modern which on a paper are better but i do not listening digits from specs but music and music is full of distortions and imperfections as that how the instruments are working. the guitar works on distortions, drums the same, human voice is not crystal clear like synthetic voice from PC. so those imperfections in vintage audio just make it better and more pleasant to listening. another way (second) you can upgrade you vintage audio by full restoration like changing capacitors for audio grade which will definitely bit modern dacs.
Yep. The fun of this hobby is that everyone has a different listening preference regarding what type of gear they prefer!
thanks for the video. Do you know anything about the yamaha cd400? it s very cheap in my country. what s your opinion?
I haven't listened to that model but I looked it up online and it only has RCA outputs, no digital outputs, so you would not be able to use an external DAC if you wanted to upgrade at some point. Yamaha's "Natural Sound", at least on their receivers, tend to be fairly neutral and easy to listen to which might be perfect should you not care to upgrade the DAC.
Thanks for the advice.
How about connecting the digital output directly to the digital input of your modern receiver and eliminate an analog cable in the chain that would be coming from an external DAC? How do the DACs in modern receivers compare to an external DAC?
That's a great connection option too. Modern receiver DACs sound great too. It's always fun for me to A/B and hear which sounds better!
For audio CD use, I always look for a shuffle/random switch, my DVD player has one.
Nice! Thanks for watching!
Any recommendations for a good portable Blu ray player?
I do not have enough experience with portables to recommend one. Hopefully someone in the comments will be able to make a recommendation based on their experience!
What about Bluray player to My Marantz connecting via optical or spdif or hdmi? Is this improve sound quality????
I don't have much experience with HDMI but a few folks here mentioned it in the comments. When you connect your blu ray to the Marantz using optical, etc, you will bypass the DAC in your blu ray and use the one in the Marantz. It's hard to know which sounds better until you A/B both. Thanks!
@@ForeverAnalog thanks for your Reply
Do you need BOTH digital coax AND optical? Is just digital coax enough of a connection?
Coax is enough assuming your external DAC has coax input (most do)
Thanks, most helpful@@ForeverAnalog
I was just curious to how your Denton CD Player sounds….does it hold up? I had a Sony CDP-425 5-disc CD player….It was pretty decent. I’m looking to build a new system…I was listening to CD via my HP laptop that I got in 2014 but now it 8 YEARS old and that is one of my new replacements in 2023.
If you mean the vintage Denon player on this video, it died on me and I no longer use it.
@@ForeverAnalog Yea I was referring to that one. I’m sorry it died on you. But when it was working was it a good CD player?
@@MetalGreggNY75 No, it was not. As regards Denon cd players look for models with 4 digits. Especially Denon DSD 1560. It sounds really great.
I listened to my 1988 Yamaha CD player with a new external DAC, couldn't notice any difference.
I'm sue you could tap into the digital-in on the inboard DAC to bypass it if you really wanted to.
Cool. Thanks for watching!
This is good info but I’m surprised to see a channel called “forever analog” talking about digital technology
Yep. Me too lol. I started the channel showing off my record collection and talking about turntables etc but now that friends are asking me more about CDs, I decided to add that to the repertoire. Thanks for watching!
Also you can use the built in dac in your amplifier.
Great point thank you
Need some help understanding. What's the real difference in a high-end red book CD transport with high-end digital out like IIS HDMI, AES/EBU/BNC vs typical CD player that plays regular red book but also CD ROM (spins faster uses a buffer so it's really not a direct transport to an external DAC) with both RCA analog out and COAX/Optical SPDIF vs just using my good ole Sony 5 disk cd changer from 1994 with only analog rca out? Real-world difference of the first two compared to of course the last option. Thanks. Subscribed!
Thank you for subscribing! Unfortunately, I'm not an expert in Red Book CDs, so I'm not confident enough to answer your question. However, if your OG Sony player has a digital output, you can buy an affordable DAC, say from Schiit and connect it just to hear how it sounds. If it doesn't work for you, they are always easy to resell, etc.
@@ForeverAnalog they don't seem to make what I want so I'm having to buy several devices. I'd like to see a small Class D amp with a phono pre-amp, optical in, coax in, rca in, usb in, 2.1 channel with sub coax out, 5.3 BT with aptx-ll, ldac, faststream (xmit and receive), tone controls, sub level and freq control. A few nice to haves on top of that would be L/R VU analog backlit meters and wifi. BAM!
I have a small sony
It plays cds sacds & bluray dvds
I'm getting into DVDs and I need a Blu-ray and a flat screen TV. Cuz my parts of the Caribbean and a Batman set of four or Blu-ray. The rest of my DVDs are are playing they play on a get this I have my DVD player it's kind of fronts coming off or something but yet it's still play. So tell me something I need to know
I just posted a new video for a Sony blu-ray player that might be of help if you are shopping around.
Another tip. Used CD players before 90ish could not read home burned CDs reliably or at all. It pays to check for a date or look it up.
If you have an external DAC, do you even need an audio CD player?
Yeah I could use a dedicated cd transport but I haven’t saved enough change to buy one yet lol
@@ForeverAnalog I was thinking more along the lines of connecting the external DAC to a computer and playing ripped CDs (using some lossless codec).
Interesting, but I am more old skool with pretty much everything including my music sound. lol I am one of those that doesn't buy newer stuff very often and usually gets my electronics at thrift stores and such. I got a nice Panasonic no flip the disc Laserdisc player a couple of years ago. So I can watch my OG Star Wars trilogy and other great classic movies and TV on it as well. I mean I have about 20 retro video game consoles hooked up to a 27" CRT TV which feeding it is multiple RCA switch boxes running through my Sony VCR, then to my TV as it only has a coaxial output. It works great though. Just thought I would share.
Nothing wrong with enjoying vintage gear - I have some videos coming out soon highlighting some of my favorite vintage amps, turntables, etc.
I have a Blu ray player which has hdmi and I've hdmi connected that to my onyko receiver. Isn't that better than coaxial or optical?
Good question. Honestly, I haven’t sat down and compared all three cables you mention with a listening session yet. Might be a good idea for a future video!
Yes, HDMI is a better protocol than Digital Coaxial and Toslink (Optical). HDMI has a significantly higher bandwidth than the other protocols which allows for better data trasnfer. This really only comes into play with blu-rays or other movie sources for surround sound.
Thank you for the input. That makes a lot of sense. I’m a classic two channel audio guy and don’t work much with hdmi.
@@ForeverAnalog one additional consideration with HDMI is that you are tied to using the DAC in the receiver as most external DACs do not have HDMI inputs, just coaxial, Toslink and USB. Not an issue if your receiver is a higher end unit with a good internal DAC. Also, many newer Blu-ray Players will play SACDs as well and SACD can only be output through HDMI. I have a Sony Blu-Ray player that I picked up for $40 and it plays SACDs but I can only play them through my receiver's built in DAC through HDMI.
Excellent points! Thank you
I’ve been using a vintage Samsung BD-C5500 blu ray player to play my over 1k CD collection for the past couple of years but I like the convenience of a dedicated CD player. I ended buying an Onkyo C-7030, and although there are plenty of good vintage CD players on the market I wanted something reliable and under warranty in case something goes wrong.
yeah, my garage is full of vintage CD players that just.stopped.working lol
@@ForeverAnalog what is your price for your defective marantz cd-94 ??
I went more for aesthetics and got a vintage CD player. I don't mind the sound of it. But I do have an Apple Superdrive thats hooked up to my laptop. With that, I'm able to pair it up with whatever dac and amp I want. What do you think of a portable DVD player and just using a computer as a bridge to audio devices?
If you have a computer between the DVD and receiver, I think you will then use the computer DAC which can sometimes be not as good as an external one like I mention here. Most of my computer DACs sound like the bare minimum chip needed to produce the sound lol. That’s just my initial thought!
@@ForeverAnalog I agree haha! It’s the flexibility of adding a dac, such as, in my case, the Tone 2 Pro or any dac that has a usb input. Like I said, the computer is technically the bridge between the portable dvd player, and the desired dac/amp combo. Hope that gave more context to my original post!
Yes! That makes sense. Sounds like a great combination!
I realised cds like vinyl will return so I bought a marantz cd6007usb as I have many flac files also. Anyhow going into a local charity shop I purchased 20 cd' s for £1 the lot, ps I offered more but was told no its fine. So off to others to pick up more. Its a win win situation.
Yeah I’ve really enjoyed buying CDs, even new ones, at better pricing than LPs. Still love my records though lol
Philipp - especially older models have great DACs inside! NO digital output is needed. Even NEW models integrate a special DAC which you can find in old Philips CD players.
Vintage DACs are a lot of fun to listen to as well!
@@ForeverAnalog Yes, listening to DUCks is fun, too.🎶🎵
Since the middle of the 90' s the DAC' s used in good cd player (for example Yamaha CDX 993) are good enough to satisfy you.
i would more worry about still getting laser units
Thank you for watching and the comment!
Doubt I'll find an external DAC that even slightly compares to the analog preamp circuit in my 20 year old Marantz Super Audio.
You might be right! I just like to pop new pieces of gear into my system every now and then as I'm curious what products (if any) will improve sound (or not!).