Not to minimize either the Janeway or Sulu characters but Nichelle Nichols played a character that not even she knew the importance of until confronted by Dr. Martin Luther King.
Yeah, I think that it was kind of fudging it to put Janeway on the list because she was actually the lead character in Voyager. The list should have been reserved for characters that had small appearances that made a big impact on the Star Trek universe.
ROM!!! He might be the single most important character PERIOD!! The self replicating mines to help keep the dominion out of the alpha quadrant, dismantling the weapons on the station so they couldn’t fire on the Defiant, not to mention the incredible impact he would have on the entire Ferrangi culture after becoming Negus.
It shows someone that's one of the main characters in the show becomes one over time and he didn't have to be gay or trans just a little man to an important one.
Me too! I was hoping it wasn't just me lol. By the end of that segment I, as a mum to a scientist in biochemistry - a lad, who is one of the most supportive and kindest people I've ever met; he'd be a perfect fit for Picard's Enterprise 😄 - and a daughter, Catherine, aka Kate when she was little back in the late 1990s (guess why lol) who also studied medical science and now works for the NHS, well, it made me actually well up. I actually shed a few tears. Silly, maybe, but my other two are involved in education. They grew up understanding that Mum & Dad were total Trekkers and, I think, took a lot of lessons from it. The girls especially didn't need anyone's permission to do "boy's stuff" (my middle daughter ended up a flight sergeant in the RAF's Air Cadets before she was too old to not be staff, then her life went down another path), mostly because that's how we brought them up, but I do think that seeing strong women on TV in fiction and real life helped them both. I'm still feeling a bit bowled over by the picture and the story.
I really think that when Paris was demoted to Ensign, Harry should have been promoted to Lieutenant junior grade. It would have created an interesting change in their dynamic, but also Harry deserved it.
A real-life astronaut dressing in a Starfleet uniform in actual space *is* pretty cool, but I can do you one better: how about when real-life astronaut Mae Jemison actually did a guest appearance ON TNG as a transporter operator?? Now THAT was mind-blowing!!
Oh, man...there's a Behind The Scenes photo in one of my TNG coffee table books of Dr. Jemison and Nichelle Nichols walking down the Enterprise-D corridor set, shooting the breeze, and just having a *blast*...
I like Mae's visit better than I like "Discovery"'s guest Stacey Abrams. Stacy has no connection to space; she was only invited due to her race and politics. Dr. McCoy would've been embarrassed as she hated Ga., the state he was born.
Icheb's death is more brutal when you realize that the part they are looking for he doesn't have anymore is because he gave it to 7 of 9 in a episode of voyager becasue he could live without it but 7 couldn't
it's shit like that why I hate what bad reboot has done to trek.... like his episodes from voyager are a little fuzzy but I remember the face and I remember him being a good character, so to do that is just sickening, when they killed Data it was a loss but it wasn't prolonged suffering he died a hero and instantly and willingly, he did what any hero would do Icheb died for nothing, it's a worthless scene, by a worthless producer and studio!!!! believe me that's as nice as i can put it....
Legat Damar, without him and his rebellion, there would be some Breen on planet earth. The hole Alpha Quadrant would be Dominion territory. I really liked his character role.
That awful moment when, as they're trying to steal the Jem'Hadar warship with the Breen's energy-dampening weapon installed in it, and Damar has to kill his best friend, still hurts to watch to this day...capped off by the realization he'd been coming to the entire final season: "He was my friend. But his Cardassia is *dead*...and it won't be coming back."
Not only was Janeway a top scientist and captain, Seven was probably the most brilliant scientist aboard (possibly one of the most brilliant aboard any Starfleet ship) and B'Elanna Torres (half Latina half Klingon) was the chief engineer aboard the USS Voyager. Giving women 3 heroes to strive towards on the same show!
@@DMSProduktions Yes, I know, but in addition to being half human, her human side is 100% Latina! So Latina girls watching the show would see someone similar to themselves rather than just non-Latina Janeway and Seven to look up to. THAT was part of the point I was making!
I always thought it was good they didn't make Hawk the first gay character in Star Trek, not because we didn't need one, but because Hollywood has a bad habit of using token diversity characters as expendable fodder for the plot--the whole "Black guy dies first" trope for example. Discovery may be a mixed bag, but it's portrayal of two gay men as completely normal and capable crewmembers does a lot more than Hawk getting assimilated and blasted into space by Worf (a character who arguably represents traditional straight masculinity besides). I do think Hawk got a short straw though. He'd have made a great character to help bridge the TNG era to another future series, like say, the Titan.
Thank you for mentioning us, and showing that image of Kate visiting the statue a couple of weekends ago. We are working on getting HD clips of her recent visit up as soon as we can.
The Voyager museum was NOT an alternate timeline, it was merely a few thousand years into the future. I love the Trekculture crew, but you guys really need to start proofreading your lists.
Came to the comments to say the same thing, glad you pointed it out! I do always wonder if EMH number 2 ever made it back to earth.......and was EMH 1 still around???
Katherine Janeway is a positive character (mostly). It's a bit of a tragedy that Kate Mulgrew was apparently horribly toxic and bullying while the show was in production. In particular, I remember the actor who played Harry Kim breaking down in tears in the middle of a panel at a convention while recounting the way that Mulgrew treated him and other actors, and the effect it had of destroying what had previously been a close-knit, family-like atmosphere amongst the cast. It seems to have started about the time that Seven of Nine was introduced, and to have been motivated by a particularly bitter possessiveness of the spotlight and majority of screen time per episode. It was heart-wrenching watching him reduced to tears and unable to keep speaking just from recounting the emotional drama she created, years after it occurred.
Why did Harry Kim never get promoted during the show’s seven year run? It’s ridiculous how he was an ensign all along despite being as a member of Janeway’s senior staff. He should have made lieutenant junior grade at the very least.
@@fuzzlemacfuzz Rick Berman is *definitely* going to be the villain in that upcoming Voyager documentary. He’s literally the man behind every narrative mistake, missed opportunity, and blatant male gaze attracting cheesecake the show has ever had.
One thing I love about Janeway, is that she actually takes the time to get to know her entire crew. (Though some took longer than others) In "The Good Shepherd" she meets a random crewman while looking for the three misfits she's chosen for the away mission. After getting some directions, she starts to walk away, then stops, addresses the crewman by name, and asks him about things in his life. Kirk, Picard, Sisko. None of them have ever been shown to hold the random crewman in high enough regard to actually know them. Yes, her ship was smaller than Picard's, but that isn't the point. Picard didn't even know all of the officers on his ship.
Seeing the astronaut paying tribute to Janeway was a poignant moment, her chippy commmet about coffee and the nebula made me feel so good because I realised she shares a sense of humour that many trekkers have and share about the future. Life imitating art.
The Burn has always been an issue for me: The Romulans didn't use matter/antimatter reaction warp cores, they used artificial singularities to power their warp drives; by the time of the Burn, the Ni'var would have had access to Romulan technology, and as before the Burn Ni'var was part of the UFP, they should have been able to easily provide alternative warp technology to the Federation, and, everyone else affected by said Burn.
@@CrankyDoodleDandy Rasputin was badly executed; poisoned, stabbed, shot, burned alive, hung, drowned...The Burn storyline was the worst thing to happen to Star Trek since they decided to sex up Voyager by putting Jeri Ryan in a cameltoe jumpsuit.
Oh, so Garrett wasn’t fired because he was beautiful? This rumour keeps on becoming more extravagant all the time! 😂 Garrett mentioned on his podcast that he did have some difficulties with lateness in earlier seasons, but as he became more dependable, the producers realised that his character had potential and that they could capitalise on the Tom and Harry buddy relationship. As far as Garrett knows, he was never at risk of being fired. Jennifer Lien was let go because the pace and schedule of the show was destructive to her mental health, which spilled into her performances, causing a downward spiral. Executive producer Jeri Taylor, in a book published in 2020, said that it was clear something big was wrong, but Jennifer wouldn’t talk about it so no one could help. Given that the character’s arc was reaching a standstill anyway, the showrunners decided not to renew her contract. But Jennifer was not fired instead of Garrett, and implying otherwise encourages false assumptions. Please stop propagating this rumour. 🙂
Lower Decks already acknowledged O'Brien's importance to Galactic history...and to the fact that he's basically the Patron Saint of the Starfleet Enlisted corp.
@@kayseek1248 Really? How do you feel about disabled persons? The deaf choir and Stephen Hawking were the few disabled ones seen on "NG" (and maybe Geordi). Cdr. T'Pol-in "Enterprise" might have been disabled in a sense since Pa'nar Syndrome infected her neurologically til she was cured by T'Pau. Archer and the others helped her up ladders and Dr. Phlox-as well as Dr. Yuris-assisted her tol until then. Archer found himself assisting her when she became unsettled in 'The 7th' and 'Damages'. Her daughter Elizabeth might- or might not have-had been disabled had she lived. It seems that being LGBT is being more important than having a disability here (not that the former isn't since my sister is a lesbian, but I have a LD, one friend has CP, and another has Asperger's). Was Tilly on "Discovery" described as having autism or Asperger's?
Um Lt. AHURA!!! Nichelle Nichols did wonders to encourage women and people of color dare to dream and become astronauts!! Sure she is noted many times but if you put in Mulgrew who is obviously iconic then you have to include Nichols because she is beyond iconic!!
Thumbs down for missing Rom! The Federation would've lost the war against the Dominion without his self-replicating mines. He disabled the weapons on the station before they could fire on the Defiant allowing time for the fleet to make it for retaking the station. He helped stop a plan by the pah wraiths when they possessed O'Brian's wife which also saved billions of lives. He saved the prime timeline when he piloted Quark's ship and figured out how to get them back to the present after being sent to Earth's past. His bunt in the baseball game led to the team getting their only point against the Vulcans. Someone like Rom shows that people who get bullied and written off by everyone for being slower on the uptake on a lot of things can still defy expectations and do great things.
While I love Voyager and Mulgrew's portrayal of Janeway, I'm afraid time has me flashing back to another scientist (well, a doctor), when I hear Bloomington, Indiana, which is also the home town of one Lt Colonel Henry Blake, late commanding officer of the 4077th MASH unit :P It's a pity there could not have been a link between these two characters, given how influential both shows were in their time. NB "There's coffee in that nebula," is still one of my favourite ST lines of all time.
@@Heymrk A personal opinion, which I respect. I don't know if it is because I saw more of Harry Morgan when younger, but I always steered more towards Potter. Each has their own appeal to different people; MacLean's Stephenson's more slapstick approach has some appeal, but for me the fact Potter was a more serious character made the times he was funny more noticeable. Or maybe he reminded me of my own grandfather; not in looks, more the fact they both had a quiet authority that rarely saw the need to be harsh, if that makes sense. You knew things were seriously the times they did get loud. Or it may simply be Potter's reminiscing about his exploits in older wars made me wonder what my grandfather, who was an Aussie serving in Palestine, went through, because it was something he never talked about, and that was one thing I learned later about the show, how veterans of the Korean War appreciated the accuracy.
I can't believe the "Garret Wang only managed to not get kicked out of Voyager because he was voted one of the most beautiful people in the world" rumour is still making its rounds when Garret Wang himself said, multiple times now, that this is NOT true?
You could add Jake Sisko to that list, when future Jake takes poison to prevent his father bouncing through time in The Visitor he creates a whole new timeline that includes the entire Dominion War
ESA Astronaut Samantha was also the first person to drink a cup of espresso coffee in space just to add the they Janeway factor I think she even wore the uniform when she drank it
for Harry Kim. you forgot to mention that the original Harry was killed and his alternate phased self crossed over to take his place. Season 2 Episode 21: Deadlock
What I actually liked about Kelvin Universe Sulu being gay was that it was so subtle. It was not focused on or forced and was rather blink-and-you'll-miss-it. As a result, it really gave me a warm feeling that at that point in the future, gay relationships were now so normally accepted that you don't even bat an eyelash.
That's what they just made from #5 , 4, 3, and 1. These characters all get the right amount of credit and recognition in canon, and are only on this list (much less that high on this list) because of real world representation... even Harry Kim wouldn't be as high on the list if not for the same!
The first few seconds and we already found a mistake. "Voyager a museum in an alternate timeline." It wasn't an alternate timeline. It was far into the future, where the history of what happened during Voyager's interaction was skewed.
@@BruceDoesStuffIt is never revealed in the episode, what happened to Voyager. It is explained that The Doctor, was a backup of the original that was stolen along with a lot of Data and equipment. That backup Doctor is later revealed to have went searching for Voyager.
Sulu.. imo the most underrated character of TOS mostly sitting at the helm. At least in STM6 the script showed us a bad-ass side of Sulu as a captain. I really wished there had been a show with Sulu starring as the captain of the Excelsior and its adventures. Sulu/Takei deserved it.
janeway? first female leads? Ok lets ignore Dana Scully (The X-Files) since while sci-fi and yes she was a scientest, x-files is more modern day. Lets go to some of the more fun female leads - Babylon 5 has 2, Delean and.. Susan Ivanova. Ivanova was a POWERFUL character with a great background, strong, smart, fighter pilot, ground combat, and Command officer. And she has some of the best lines in the show. "Even if we lived 200 years, we would still learn nothing." "Oh so you're a cynic" "no doctor, i'm russian, we understand these things." Aeryn Sun from Farscape. Police officer, warrior, pilot, again she becomes a powerful force on the show and not just that show, as the actor moves on to join stargate. the truth is there were lots of female leed characters prior to.
The first to appear on any Star Trek Series was Ursaline Bryant she played starship Captain Tryla Scott in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Conspiracy" (airing 1988). Then came Captain Rachel Garrett, played by Tricia O'Neil, in Star Trek: The Next Generation - "Yesterday's Enterprise"(airing 1990).
Absolutely correct. Janeway is a character who is definitely realized by most people. The characters that you mentioned here are not as realized, which would fit the title of this video more so than Janeway. Btw I am not taking anything away from Janeway's character.
@@robertszekely8686 I didn't mention this TOS episode "Turnabout Intruder", in which Dr. Janice Lester takes over Kirk's body, on the technicality that it was a female mind in a male body. otherwise she would have been the first female captain.
I had forgotten that Hawk had been assimilated and attacked Picard etc. !? I remembered that he was left adrift and I was a wee bit salty in regards to the whole, "No one left behind " thing. Admittedly it didn't appear to be much that could be done . That said, now that you've reintroduced to the facts at hand..I find myself intrigued (I paused the video in order to merrily contemplate a couple of ( what could be/ could have been scenarios to amuse myself ).. There were two scenarios which came forth from the void and quickly coalesced into two possibilities which struck me as viable storyline arcs which I would like to posit are the following- 1. Hawk is quite neatly staged for the very classic Star Trek trope - (well, truthfully,this sort of story is found regularly in most forms of fictional media) - that being a..fallen friend/ally's return as a bitter villain and or a person being coerced into taking actions meant to disrupt, harm, or destroy former Brothers. Hawk could have been preserved by the hosting nanite's Leaving him adrift until the character is brought forth by the all powerful, benevolent, ideals of the cinematic writer ! Pitch found in the bottom of this page. The next storyline that I found exciting/appealing is- ...haha I completely spaced the idea as I was putting the first one together. That said I'm sure it was some variation of Hawk being rescued and possibly because the story makes it ABSOLUTELY VITAL i.e. Star Trek whale probe... As seen in the film YOU PERVERTS !! Get your minds out of the gutter.
My take was either the debris hadn't materialized by the time the Enterprise-E left (time travel shenanigans), or the ship's sensors were too heavily damaged to pick up the Borg signatures in the Arctic. Hawke, though, would likely have been orbiting Earth in a very predictable way, as he would have roughly matched Enterprise's orbit at the time he was killed.
@@irregularassassin6380 not a bad theory, just always bothered me that they hide behind the moon, so they won't polute the time line, bit they leave all the borg junk on earth.. also the sphere was destroyed after they traveled through time why didn't the vulcons detect debris, or bodies floating in space.
@@ericsietsema2044 All good questions, and I agree that it is a bit of a plot hole. However, like a true overly-dedicated fan, we can come up with something to explain it. The Sphere: We must remember that the Borg sphere which opened the temporal rift had just ejected itself from an exploding cube. Said cube had just suffered massive internal damage from numerous photon torpedoes and a handful of quantum torpedoes. It's possible the sphere was damaged prior to, or upon, exiting its mothership cube, and subsequently lost some components and drones in the turbulence of the temporal rift. If the debris lost in such a way "fell back" into the timeline at a later date than the sphere intended, then it's possible the Enterprise-E would not have been there to detect it. The T'Plana Hath: I have often wondered how the Vulcans aboard the T'Plana Hath didn't detect anything amiss in orbit of Earth, or on the surface. After all, they have sensors and the Enterprise fired quantum torpedoes! However, we must also remember that the T'Plana Hath was flying a century before the NX-01! Not only that, but they likely had no reason to look for any weird Borg tech because logically, the Humans should have nothing like it. They just made their first warp flight, everything outside of Boseman would be primitive at best. On top of that, Earth had just come out of the Third World War. Vast swathes of land were probably irradiated, and I'd bet there were pockets of radioactive debris dotting the globe. As for bodies in orbit, we already know Earth had numerous satellites. They had had satellites with cryogenically frozen people in orbit since at least the 1980s, and satellites with nuclear weapons payloads since the 1960s! There was probably tonnes of space junk up there, including bodies! In short, the Borg traces were likely camouflaged by the detritus and destruction of total war.
Eventually, the body’s orbit would decay and he would burn up in Earth’s atmosphere. Before that happens, his body would most likely be mistaken as space junk if it was detected.
I liked the real life ties in this list. I would like to see a similar list about characters that are more important than you think due to the consequences of their actions. I for real thought you were going to say the guy from First Contact was one of the drones from Enterprise.
I always forget that Harry Kim was always an ensign, even though Tom Paris was promoted, demoted then promoted again and again, making him a Lieutenant Senior Grade. If Harry were in the military in the middle 1990's, when the series ran, he would have automatically been promoted to Lieutenant Junior Grade, six months after being commissioned. In fact Starfleet would have automatically promoted him until the crew were declared dead. Personnel who are out of communication are presumed to be serving honorably and that's the only criteria for being made LJG.
Doesn't matter, Kurtzman is incapable of telling a person from their character. Kurtzman was imagining he was killing the actor, not Icheb. That scene will always be baffling. Why would you resolve a problematic actor with a substantially more problematic scene? Why not swap out the actor? Kurtzman literally kept the actor employed to punish him. Just... why?
Absolute pleasure hearing from Brie again. I'm constantly reminded how good all the TrekCulturers are, even if our wonderful boyo Seán does hog the spotlight.
@@stevenmanclark7361 Seán's fantastic; a positive, wholesome guy. Though my experience with him is limited to what I see on-screen rather than between the sheets.
You guys forgot Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Space Seed vi Khan ~ This 1982 movie changed Star Trek ~ Without this one movie, I do not think we would have a Star Trek Franchise?
"Which was, at the time, often called the Gay Plague." Come on ya'll. That was in the early/mid 1980s. By the time Enterprise had come out it was much like today where it seems like everyone had forgotten about it, hence raising awareness. The episode also has a feeling of drug addiction and how we feel like "they got themselves into it so they don't deserve help" about it.
Thank you for saying what every honest person was thinking, but wouldn't say. I really wish people would stop pretending that it's the the 1960's or 1980's depending on what victim group they are discussing.
Janeway was I think the best captain. The reason I say that its the way they wrote her role she wasn't written as she was better then the men that worked under her unlike how they write women into roles today. This is what made the show so great.
@@LanMandragon1720 I didn’t know that but I don’t think it would have been the same and also who would have been Kira. Nana Visitor was perfect for that role.
@@AndrewD8Red they renamed Locarno as if they used that character they would have to pay writer of original tng episode royalties every time they used him
I also love Kate Mulgrew I love Captain Janeway and I think it's awesome that she has a statue in indiana! I have family there I didn't realize there was a statue so the next time I go there to visit them I think I'm going to have to make a little day trip lol! That is just awesome!
bree, youre a great presenter, but, and i cant stress this any more clearly, what about the cheif, miles o'brien, yknow, the most important man in starfleet? like seriously, how could you leave him off this list?🖖
To date (Nov.2022) the Next Generation is the best Star Trek storyline I've ever seen. It's due to the characters chosen mostly. I appreciate Gene Roddenberry creating this television program, God bless his soul.
Personally I thought how they ended Enterprise was a bit of a letdown. turning the entire series into a holodeck simulation was a bit weak on a writers level.
They kind of didn't have much choice, as the show was cancelled despite the production crew having had planned for more seasons. They had to come up with SOMETHING on short notice. (They thought about Shran joining the main crew, and I was so gleeful to see more of Combs. Ah well, didn't get the chance.)
I agree that the final episode of the series was lousy. However, I don't think it turns the entire series into a holodeck simulation, only that one episode.
I'm a friend of Manu (Intiryami) and... yeah _occasionally_ he's said some dumb stuff. But he tends to take back the dumbest stuff when he realises "oh crap, that stuff was dumb". We all do that, don't we? What I can say of my personal experience is that he's a very compassionate, witty, deeply caring man who's always treated me, a mentally ill trans/intersexed bi (mostly lesbian) woman, and a victim of some... really messed up stuff I don't really wanna elaborate on here... with the _utmost_ respect and empathy. I've not asked him permission to write this (feel like I should go the route of asking forgiveness afterwards instead lol), but... he has _also_ been through some... incredibly nasty times, not quite the same as the various forms of abuse I've suffered (albeit with some crossover) but definitely traumatising. I personally think that's left him with a few rough, spiky edges, same as you find with most people who've been through trauma. The horrific abuse I've been through (which he's always been absolutely lovely, understanding, and supportive about, he's really been a rock when I've needed it) has left me with a few rough and spiky edges too. S'probably why I think Sonic the Hedgehog is so rad. But while I think his perception of the Kevin Spacey/Anthony Rapp situation _was_ highly flawed (seemingly from a lack of knowledge over the exact details), I really love Manu, he's fundamentally good people, and I feel he really doesn't deserve to be "cancelled" over one bad take. Otherwise, great video! Though you missed Groppler Zorn, and as an Allison Pregler fan I can't _ever_ forgive that omission 😁
Some heavy stuff to read in there. I don't want to say much, because I'm one of the people who judged Manu harshly for what they said. I get people say stupid things and then regret it and look to apologise. Some people will accept their apology, and some people won't. As to some of the personal details you touched on, just want to say for what it's worth, I see you commenting a lot on various channels I follow and you always seem like a positive, progressive and wholesome person. I respect that and I hope you're proud of the person you are, because the person you are seems pretty darn awesome.
@@AndrewD8Red ❤ thank you, that's really sweet of you. Like _I_ find those particular tweets distasteful and I've talked to Manu about them, I really got the vibe he regrets them. I think he outright said he does but my mental health issues make memory incredibly fuzzy so I can't say for sure. I have huge self esteem issues, it's hard to think of myself as a good person so sadly that pride is usually not present. Though I guess I can take a lil pride in being empathic towards, and sticking up for, a friend! I'm not gonna tell you what to think of him but... I'd ask you maybe reassess whether it's worth giving him a second chance. Tonight is a rough night for me. My mental health hasn't exactly been superb lately. My anxiety is playing up about leaving the comment I did because I know there's people who are far harsher than you about him, and I often struggle to trust my own judgement because again... self esteem issues. I try to be strong... I try to fight through the depression and the panic attacks... sometimes I succeed! But often I get snagged a bit in an emotionally unhealthy area.
@@AndrewD8Red actually to get waaaaay less heavy for a mo... when I first met Manu it was as a Trek fan and he was the first cast member I'd talked to so I was a bit starstruck, and it felt weird for a little while... but now, after we've stayed in touch and I've known him for over a year at this point (maybe two?), I kinda have the opposite problem... If I watch an episode of Voyager with him in it, part of my brain goes "hey, that's my buddy Manu, what the frell is _he_ doing on the television!?" 🤣 and then I feel proud of him when his acting is on point, although I have to work harder to suspend disbelief.
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated Whatever you do though, please make sure you make some time for your own mental health. Anything mentally calming and healing. I find watching Galaxy Quest helps 😁
Forgiveness is something deeply lacking in the world right now. We all make serious mistakes, I know I have. Mine caused me to reevaluate my position on forgiveness, because you don't realise how important it is until you desperately need it yourself. Forgiveness is the well in the desert. The thirsty can only drink if others have left some for you. I hope your mental health improves tonight. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Some have already said it, but Uhura ist possibly the most important character at least by measure of The inclusion of Janeway and Stamets, as she was a woman of color in an important technical job. Especially the color part was important as it helped create awareness that people of color are really capable and „normal“ people when most Americans didn’t take that simple truth for granted. I‘d also argue Sulu was more important for being Asian/ Japanese descent (the old World War II enemy) than being revealed as gay in 2016 and maybe Chekov is also important for being a Russian character in the time of the Cold War (although Walter Koenig admittedly wasn’t of Russian descent). Generally, featuring a multicultural and multi-ethnic group of characters in a prime time tv-series (let alone Sci-Fi) was absolutely revolutionary back in 1966.
The *real* reason that the Lt Hawk being gay storyline was dropped is because Neil McDonough is a devout Christian, and refused point blank to play a gay character. He even refuses to kiss women onscreen because of his beliefs, believing in the sanctity of marriage. This has led him to be almost blacklisted in Hollywood, a subject he's spoken out on many times. Seems that freedom of belief only counts to all religions, so long as that religion isn't Christianity... 🙄 🍄
@@silverwriter6739 The reason they didn't mention it in the video is because they were too busy trying to push the whole 'gay character' thing, that's all they seem to care about- representation. They don't like the truth, because it doesn't fit their narrative, and when that truth happens to be that the actor refused to to play a character that went against *his* beliefs, then they conveniently brush it under the carpet. First Contact was made in the last century, which is why Neil McDonough could- and did- refuse. If an actor tried to do that today, he'd never work again. 😔 🍄
Everyone has a right to freedom of belief, although my version of Christianity isn't anti-gay at all, however if it affects the type of roles which a person is willing to play, it's very likely to negatively impact an acting career. Unwilling to even kiss an actress? The guy needs to talk to William Shatner.
This list needed Uhura/Nichelle Nichols. She inspired many black girls to dream big for themselves, including Whoopi Goldberg/Guinan. In a time when black people were considered lesser and unintelligent because of their way of speaking, Uhura was a) on the bridge, b) treated as an equal, c) proficient in many skills, and d) an expert in communication!
Ah Lt Hawk the ultimate redshirt. Also the phaser that Dunbar uses is the very same as a discovery era Section 31 phaser (insert conspiracy theory here)
Not gonna lie, I had a big smile on my face when I saw the part about Janeway. Thats just awesome. Star Trek continues to inspire and motivate people around the world to, as it is said in "Star Trek: Picard": Look up.
Without Elim Garak's destruction of the Romulan diplomatic spacecraft near the end of "In the Pale Moonlight" (DS9), the Federation would have lost the war to the Dominion at that point. The guy even got punched out by Captain Sisko, who apparently was big on 'rules' for a desperate war of survival, showing that "No good deed goes unpunished."
The very talkative Morn helped save the Alpha quadrant from the Jem Hadar by sneaking a message to Sisko/Federation that the mine field was coming down. If he hadn't done so thousands of Jem Hadar ships would have flooded the alpha quadrant from the wormhole.
Ok i will point these facts out again. Niether Janeway, nor Sisko were the first of their groups in that position. The captain of the Saratoga (the very same Saratoga Sisko served on) was both female and African American in star trek 4. I realize this 45 seconds of lore is oft overlooked for both being the main protagonists but the truth is they are not the big ground breaker the captain of the Saratoga was.
Nichelle Nichols as Lieutenant Nyota Uhura should probably have taken the number one spot, or at least shared billing with Kate Mulgrew’s Janeway as she began a legacy of inspiration not just for young women but for people of color starting from 1966.
I mean, it was only even rare if you forget about 1/5 of the characters on Kids in the Hall, the recurring Men on Film segments (among others) on In Living Color, Brian on The Larry Sanders Show, Ellen on Ellen, multiple characters on Northern Exposure... and then gay representation in TV exploded almost immediately after TNG finished with Sex and the City, Ally McBeal, Cybill, Will & Grace, Friends, Spin City as just quick examples from the next 4 or 5 years after TNG!
Sulu's, daughter, from the movie that Kirk, dies in. A reminder to us all..and Kirk, that time is always leaving us behind, and you have to find ways to live life, before the end. Kirk and Picard, both..never had any kids. -(Young Mr. Markus, doesn't exactly count, because they were not really a "proper family", because his mother never included Kirk in his short lived wreakless life).
They were considering getting rid of Harry in favour of Kes? Wow, that would have been such a disaster. Replacing Kes with Seven was the best thing for the show :v
I like that they went suddle with Sulu being revealed as gay in the Kelvin timeline. By doing so they show that a gay person something normal and nothing that is important to point out for the characters in the movie. That is sending a much stronger message than awkwardly making other characters point out him being gay or lengthy talks about that shouldn't be a problem in a setting where they claim that already isn't a problem anymore.
There is a reason that the original Star Trek was light years ahead on race issues and sexism, but bizarrely later Star Treks lacked on gay issues, and made women little more than sex objects. It was as a result of homophobic Rick Berman taking over for Gene Roddenberry. Berman gleefully stated that his job was to make sure that gay content didn't enter the show so that, he claimed, it wouldn't "upset the network." (Contrast this with Roddenberry putting the first interacial kiss on TV, or diverse representations in the cast, or plaing women in positions of power) It was also Berman who made sure that there were women poured into what amounted to spandex outfits to appeal to teenage boys, while writers had to fight to craft powerful women on the show.
You know, i hate it when shows say stuff thats wrong. Janeway was not the first, Rachel Garrett was the first on screen female captain in star trek. TNG Yesterdays Enterprise.
Uh, the late Nichelle Nichols paved the way for many in the genre of SciFi and in the 'real' world as an 'official' special advisor and recruiter for the NASA space program. She even received a security clearance for that job. Her contribution to and for equality is a legacy few can measure. Don't get me started on Jimmy and Leonard.
This theme points to one thing that I loved about season two of DISCOVERY (spoiler alert, for you who haven't seen it): the appearances of the Red Angel seemed at first to be completely random, but they tied together all of these disparate characters who, when introduced, just seemed incidental, but who ended up being huge contributors to the solution of the problem at hand.
@@topogigio7031 Really? You knew the moment she saw the Red Angel on that asteroid that it was her, and that it was leading the crew to find all these people and places (including the sphere, which they hadn't even encountered yet) that would piece together a solution to a problem that didn't even yet exist, and plot points that hadn't even been introduced? Congratulations! You're even smarter than the writers of the show.
In other words, you "unraveled the moment the Red (Angel) was shown": * What it was * How it functioned * Who created it * Who was wearing it * Jett Reno's importance aside from comic relief * The significance of Terralysium * The importance of Saru's return to his home planet * The appearance of the sphere and the disposition of its "memory" * Spock's mental breakdown and its significance * Mae, Tilly's abduction into the mycelial (sp?) network, and "the monster" * The appearance of the Chancelor and Ash/Vok's son and his disposition and how it tied into * Pike's acquisition of the time crystal and its connection to THE MENAGERIE, and how that tied into * Spock and Michael going back to Talos IV * The "queen" coming back and why she was coming back * The AI data taking human form in an attempt to get the sphere data. * The angel being both Michael's mother AND Michael * Pike and crew realizing that the only solution was for Discovery to go so far into the future that the data couldn't be retrieved. Should I go on, or would that be dipshit of me?
How about Cpt Pike. He is, after all, the one who took a chance with a young, rebellious James Kirk when no one else would. And Kirk, of course, saved the universe several times over subsequently🤔
So, the height of the AIDS crisis was the '80s into the early '90s. By the time Enterprise was on, nobody was calling it "The Gay Plague" anymore. You also identify at least three different gay characters as "the first one"... Where do you get this stuff??
Compromise: Original Series Hikaru Sulu was unofficially bisexual and was confident enough in his queer identity that he felt it didn't require broadcasting to every single crewmember. This is both my headcanon (one of many) and a reasonable inference of the subtext/context of the original series of Star Trek. "Fight me" quoth the fangirl.
Title should be 2 Star Trek Characters who were more important than you realized, and 8 Star Trek Characters who we threw in because of race, gender or sexual orientation
0:09 is that so? I think it is never established, that the Episode plays in an alternate timeline and there is further nothing to suggest that as discrepancys or something. i think it plays in the future of the main timeline on an planet in the delta quadrant, when voyager is long away.
Not to minimize either the Janeway or Sulu characters but Nichelle Nichols played a character that not even she knew the importance of until confronted by Dr. Martin Luther King.
But her character was not gay so she was not included.
You're right Jim. Beautiful, talented and classy, Miss Nichols was all three and more.
@@CONSOLETRUTH2 Apparently the most important thing one can do in ST is sleep with members of your own sex.
Amen
Yeah, I think that it was kind of fudging it to put Janeway on the list because she was actually the lead character in Voyager. The list should have been reserved for characters that had small appearances that made a big impact on the Star Trek universe.
ROM!!! He might be the single most important character PERIOD!! The self replicating mines to help keep the dominion out of the alpha quadrant, dismantling the weapons on the station so they couldn’t fire on the Defiant, not to mention the incredible impact he would have on the entire Ferrangi culture after becoming Negus.
Well, he wasn't a (openly) gay or trans female (real-world) minority group member. Seems like a really tough spot to be in to have made their list.
I completely agree! Sadly, he was just another "dumb" male character 😏
It shows someone that's one of the main characters in the show becomes one over time and he didn't have to be gay or trans just a little man to an important one.
And figuring out pah wraith Keiko's plan. "Why are we trying to kill the wormhole aliens?" (5x05 The Assignment)
But Rom doesn't need to be on this list. We all now his importance
The real astronaut Samantha Cristoforetti in a Voyager uniform quoting Captain Janeway gave me chills.
Me too! I was hoping it wasn't just me lol.
By the end of that segment I, as a mum to a scientist in biochemistry - a lad, who is one of the most supportive and kindest people I've ever met; he'd be a perfect fit for Picard's Enterprise 😄 - and a daughter, Catherine, aka Kate when she was little back in the late 1990s (guess why lol) who also studied medical science and now works for the NHS, well, it made me actually well up. I actually shed a few tears.
Silly, maybe, but my other two are involved in education. They grew up understanding that Mum & Dad were total Trekkers and, I think, took a lot of lessons from it. The girls especially didn't need anyone's permission to do "boy's stuff" (my middle daughter ended up a flight sergeant in the RAF's Air Cadets before she was too old to not be staff, then her life went down another path), mostly because that's how we brought them up, but I do think that seeing strong women on TV in fiction and real life helped them both. I'm still feeling a bit bowled over by the picture and the story.
Agreed! As a father to 2 daughters, I admit to getting misty eyed to the hopeful impact Janeway has had on society.
I really think that when Paris was demoted to Ensign, Harry should have been promoted to Lieutenant junior grade. It would have created an interesting change in their dynamic, but also Harry deserved it.
A real-life astronaut dressing in a Starfleet uniform in actual space *is* pretty cool, but I can do you one better: how about when real-life astronaut Mae Jemison actually did a guest appearance ON TNG as a transporter operator?? Now THAT was mind-blowing!!
Oh, man...there's a Behind The Scenes photo in one of my TNG coffee table books of Dr. Jemison and Nichelle Nichols walking down the Enterprise-D corridor set, shooting the breeze, and just having a *blast*...
Where’s the one better
I like Mae's visit better than I like "Discovery"'s guest Stacey Abrams. Stacy has no connection to space; she was only invited due to her race and politics. Dr. McCoy would've been embarrassed as she hated Ga., the state he was born.
Icheb's death is more brutal when you realize that the part they are looking for he doesn't have anymore is because he gave it to 7 of 9 in a episode of voyager becasue he could live without it but 7 couldn't
when the bitch asked, where's his node, I gasph
it's shit like that why I hate what bad reboot has done to trek....
like his episodes from voyager are a little fuzzy but I remember the face and I remember him being a good character, so to do that is just sickening, when they killed Data it was a loss but it wasn't prolonged suffering he died a hero and instantly and willingly, he did what any hero would do
Icheb died for nothing, it's a worthless scene, by a worthless producer and studio!!!! believe me that's as nice as i can put it....
@@Red_Lanterns_Rage cope
Legat Damar, without him and his rebellion, there would be some Breen on planet earth. The hole Alpha Quadrant would be Dominion territory. I really liked his character role.
That awful moment when, as they're trying to steal the Jem'Hadar warship with the Breen's energy-dampening weapon installed in it, and Damar has to kill his best friend, still hurts to watch to this day...capped off by the realization he'd been coming to the entire final season:
"He was my friend. But his Cardassia is *dead*...and it won't be coming back."
Not only was Janeway a top scientist and captain, Seven was probably the most brilliant scientist aboard (possibly one of the most brilliant aboard any Starfleet ship) and B'Elanna Torres (half Latina half Klingon) was the chief engineer aboard the USS Voyager. Giving women 3 heroes to strive towards on the same show!
Latina, IS human!
@@DMSProduktions Yes, I know, but in addition to being half human, her human side is 100% Latina! So Latina girls watching the show would see someone similar to themselves rather than just non-Latina Janeway and Seven to look up to. THAT was part of the point I was making!
@@MrFearDubh Ok, IF you want to bring race into it!
@McSnapples LOL! You MIGHT be right!
Let's just see IF, YT is still here in 10 years!
@McSnapples sure, who doesn’t look back sadly at the antiquated politics of the CD player. You’re making great points.
Neal McDonough who played Lt. Hawk is an outstanding character actor who's still working today - he would have been a great young add to the cast.
Damian Darhk, Dum Dum Dugan, Buck Compton, to name a few of his best roles!
@@tootsmcdunno5244 Loved him in Band of Brothers!
I always thought it was good they didn't make Hawk the first gay character in Star Trek, not because we didn't need one, but because Hollywood has a bad habit of using token diversity characters as expendable fodder for the plot--the whole "Black guy dies first" trope for example. Discovery may be a mixed bag, but it's portrayal of two gay men as completely normal and capable crewmembers does a lot more than Hawk getting assimilated and blasted into space by Worf (a character who arguably represents traditional straight masculinity besides). I do think Hawk got a short straw though. He'd have made a great character to help bridge the TNG era to another future series, like say, the Titan.
He plays a great bad guy. Go watch Justified.
@@tstahler5420
And Walking Tall.
Thank you for mentioning us, and showing that image of Kate visiting the statue a couple of weekends ago. We are working on getting HD clips of her recent visit up as soon as we can.
You missed an obvious one..Uhura. Not only for influencing minorities and females to becoming astronauts but recruiting them as well.
You’re not wrong about Uhura’s importance, but I think most people realize this, unlike the others on the list.
@@tineye5100 Yes, most people probably realize Uhura's importance. However, I think Janeway's importance is also realized by most people.
The Voyager museum was NOT an alternate timeline, it was merely a few thousand years into the future. I love the Trekculture crew, but you guys really need to start proofreading your lists.
Came to the comments to say the same thing, glad you pointed it out! I do always wonder if EMH number 2 ever made it back to earth.......and was EMH 1 still around???
Facts
Still though, they are doing better than the modern trek writers. That really says a lot doesn't it?
came here to say this
Was going to say the same thing but you beat me too it!
Katherine Janeway is a positive character (mostly). It's a bit of a tragedy that Kate Mulgrew was apparently horribly toxic and bullying while the show was in production. In particular, I remember the actor who played Harry Kim breaking down in tears in the middle of a panel at a convention while recounting the way that Mulgrew treated him and other actors, and the effect it had of destroying what had previously been a close-knit, family-like atmosphere amongst the cast. It seems to have started about the time that Seven of Nine was introduced, and to have been motivated by a particularly bitter possessiveness of the spotlight and majority of screen time per episode. It was heart-wrenching watching him reduced to tears and unable to keep speaking just from recounting the emotional drama she created, years after it occurred.
Why did Harry Kim never get promoted during the show’s seven year run? It’s ridiculous how he was an ensign all along despite being as a member of Janeway’s senior staff. He should have made lieutenant junior grade at the very least.
Rick Berman, he specifically said to GW's face that he would remain an ensign as someone had to be
@@fuzzlemacfuzz Rick Berman is *definitely* going to be the villain in that upcoming Voyager documentary. He’s literally the man behind every narrative mistake, missed opportunity, and blatant male gaze attracting cheesecake the show has ever had.
@@fuzzlemacfuzz Wow, what a jerk.
the canonical reason was that there was no room for promotion although i find that dubious at best seeing as people were promoted on that ship
Overlooked!
One thing I love about Janeway, is that she actually takes the time to get to know her entire crew. (Though some took longer than others)
In "The Good Shepherd" she meets a random crewman while looking for the three misfits she's chosen for the away mission. After getting some directions, she starts to walk away, then stops, addresses the crewman by name, and asks him about things in his life.
Kirk, Picard, Sisko. None of them have ever been shown to hold the random crewman in high enough regard to actually know them.
Yes, her ship was smaller than Picard's, but that isn't the point. Picard didn't even know all of the officers on his ship.
Seeing the astronaut paying tribute to Janeway was a poignant moment, her chippy commmet about coffee and the nebula made me feel so good because I realised she shares a sense of humour that many trekkers have and share about the future. Life imitating art.
Barclay, never forget Reginald Barclay
"Looks like we've got a guardian angel and his name is Harry kim" that line chocks me up every time.
Chocks? With what? Wood, plastic, chocolate?
The Burn has always been an issue for me: The Romulans didn't use matter/antimatter reaction warp cores, they used artificial singularities to power their warp drives; by the time of the Burn, the Ni'var would have had access to Romulan technology, and as before the Burn Ni'var was part of the UFP, they should have been able to easily provide alternative warp technology to the Federation, and, everyone else affected by said Burn.
Yeah, but that's attained a level of Trek's Knowledge than EVERY SINGLE DSC writer and showrunner simply Lacks off
You just demonstrated the importance of canon lore.
@@RydarkVoyager That was kind of what I was going for.
The burn storyline has many problems. Was struggling to watch Discovery before, and they cemented it. Badly written and badly executed
@@CrankyDoodleDandy Rasputin was badly executed; poisoned, stabbed, shot, burned alive, hung, drowned...The Burn storyline was the worst thing to happen to Star Trek since they decided to sex up Voyager by putting Jeri Ryan in a cameltoe jumpsuit.
Oh, so Garrett wasn’t fired because he was beautiful? This rumour keeps on becoming more extravagant all the time! 😂
Garrett mentioned on his podcast that he did have some difficulties with lateness in earlier seasons, but as he became more dependable, the producers realised that his character had potential and that they could capitalise on the Tom and Harry buddy relationship. As far as Garrett knows, he was never at risk of being fired.
Jennifer Lien was let go because the pace and schedule of the show was destructive to her mental health, which spilled into her performances, causing a downward spiral. Executive producer Jeri Taylor, in a book published in 2020, said that it was clear something big was wrong, but Jennifer wouldn’t talk about it so no one could help. Given that the character’s arc was reaching a standstill anyway, the showrunners decided not to renew her contract.
But Jennifer was not fired instead of Garrett, and implying otherwise encourages false assumptions. Please stop propagating this rumour. 🙂
what about Miles Edward O'Brien...
But he’s not gay…
Lower Decks already acknowledged O'Brien's importance to Galactic history...and to the fact that he's basically the Patron Saint of the Starfleet Enlisted corp.
@@kayseek1248 Really? How do you feel about disabled persons? The deaf choir and Stephen Hawking were the few disabled ones seen on "NG" (and maybe Geordi). Cdr. T'Pol-in "Enterprise" might have been disabled in a sense since Pa'nar Syndrome infected her neurologically til she was cured by T'Pau. Archer and the others helped her up ladders and Dr.
Phlox-as well as Dr. Yuris-assisted her tol until then. Archer found himself assisting her when she became unsettled in 'The 7th' and 'Damages'. Her daughter Elizabeth might- or might not have-had been disabled had she lived. It seems that being LGBT is being more important than having a disability here (not that the former isn't since my sister is a lesbian, but I have a LD, one friend has CP, and another has Asperger's). Was Tilly on "Discovery" described as having autism or Asperger's?
Um Lt. AHURA!!! Nichelle Nichols did wonders to encourage women and people of color dare to dream and become astronauts!! Sure she is noted many times but if you put in Mulgrew who is obviously iconic then you have to include Nichols because she is beyond iconic!!
Thumbs down for missing Rom! The Federation would've lost the war against the Dominion without his self-replicating mines. He disabled the weapons on the station before they could fire on the Defiant allowing time for the fleet to make it for retaking the station. He helped stop a plan by the pah wraiths when they possessed O'Brian's wife which also saved billions of lives. He saved the prime timeline when he piloted Quark's ship and figured out how to get them back to the present after being sent to Earth's past. His bunt in the baseball game led to the team getting their only point against the Vulcans.
Someone like Rom shows that people who get bullied and written off by everyone for being slower on the uptake on a lot of things can still defy expectations and do great things.
While I love Voyager and Mulgrew's portrayal of Janeway, I'm afraid time has me flashing back to another scientist (well, a doctor), when I hear Bloomington, Indiana, which is also the home town of one Lt Colonel Henry Blake, late commanding officer of the 4077th MASH unit :P It's a pity there could not have been a link between these two characters, given how influential both shows were in their time.
NB "There's coffee in that nebula," is still one of my favourite ST lines of all time.
Blake was better than Potter.
@@Heymrk A personal opinion, which I respect. I don't know if it is because I saw more of Harry Morgan when younger, but I always steered more towards Potter. Each has their own appeal to different people; MacLean's Stephenson's more slapstick approach has some appeal, but for me the fact Potter was a more serious character made the times he was funny more noticeable.
Or maybe he reminded me of my own grandfather; not in looks, more the fact they both had a quiet authority that rarely saw the need to be harsh, if that makes sense. You knew things were seriously the times they did get loud. Or it may simply be Potter's reminiscing about his exploits in older wars made me wonder what my grandfather, who was an Aussie serving in Palestine, went through, because it was something he never talked about, and that was one thing I learned later about the show, how veterans of the Korean War appreciated the accuracy.
I can't believe the "Garret Wang only managed to not get kicked out of Voyager because he was voted one of the most beautiful people in the world" rumour is still making its rounds when Garret Wang himself said, multiple times now, that this is NOT true?
Thank you. I've been looking for this comment.
Nobody called Icheb "Itchy" except for one character in one episode.
And that would be... Scratchy?
@@davidanderson_surrey_bc That would be "Q-Ball." Icheb and Q Junior became pals, and gave each other those nicknames.
@Watzetzface I get you're condescending to me, but your comment was so eloquent that I had to like it anyway :)
You could add Jake Sisko to that list, when future Jake takes poison to prevent his father bouncing through time in The Visitor he creates a whole new timeline that includes the entire Dominion War
ESA Astronaut Samantha was also the first person to drink a cup of espresso coffee in space just to add the they Janeway factor I think she even wore the uniform when she drank it
We cna certainly hope so.
On Garrett Wang being among the sexiest men on television in the 90's: can confirm; I crushed on him so hard.
for Harry Kim. you forgot to mention that the original Harry was killed and his alternate phased self crossed over to take his place. Season 2 Episode 21: Deadlock
No, she specifically said he "died at least twice".
What I actually liked about Kelvin Universe Sulu being gay was that it was so subtle. It was not focused on or forced and was rather blink-and-you'll-miss-it. As a result, it really gave me a warm feeling that at that point in the future, gay relationships were now so normally accepted that you don't even bat an eyelash.
not the kind of thing these movies were known for the subtle approach
But one of the few instances nonetheless.
Great list! I've always really loved Harry Kim and feel he's totally underappreciated. He's a really good officer.
He was the Chief O'Brian of Voyager.
Video idea: characters that have had the greatest real world impact, like Cpt. Janeway or Lt. Uhura
That's what they just made from #5 , 4, 3, and 1. These characters all get the right amount of credit and recognition in canon, and are only on this list (much less that high on this list) because of real world representation... even Harry Kim wouldn't be as high on the list if not for the same!
"If you don't get a headache thinking about timetravel you haven't understood the subject."
(I think that was from Captain Janeway but I'm not sure)
Chief O'Brien was much more direct: "I *hate* temporal mechanics..."
Q sending the Enterprise to encounter the Borg was a pivot moment in Star trek history.
The first few seconds and we already found a mistake. "Voyager a museum in an alternate timeline." It wasn't an alternate timeline. It was far into the future, where the history of what happened during Voyager's interaction was skewed.
If it wasn't an alternate timeline, then how did the ship make it back to Earth?
@@BruceDoesStuffIt is never revealed in the episode, what happened to Voyager. It is explained that The Doctor, was a backup of the original that was stolen along with a lot of Data and equipment. That backup Doctor is later revealed to have went searching for Voyager.
yea. This one feels like you had some quotas to fill up.
Halfway through the list I realized it should have been titled “… more important *to reality* than you realized.”
Sulu.. imo the most underrated character of TOS mostly sitting at the helm. At least in STM6 the script showed us a bad-ass side of Sulu as a captain. I really wished there had been a show with Sulu starring as the captain of the Excelsior and its adventures. Sulu/Takei deserved it.
Voyager was a museum in two alternate timelines.
janeway? first female leads?
Ok lets ignore Dana Scully (The X-Files) since while sci-fi and yes she was a scientest, x-files is more modern day.
Lets go to some of the more fun female leads - Babylon 5 has 2, Delean and.. Susan Ivanova. Ivanova was a POWERFUL character with a great background, strong, smart, fighter pilot, ground combat, and Command officer. And she has some of the best lines in the show. "Even if we lived 200 years, we would still learn nothing." "Oh so you're a cynic" "no doctor, i'm russian, we understand these things."
Aeryn Sun from Farscape. Police officer, warrior, pilot, again she becomes a powerful force on the show and not just that show, as the actor moves on to join stargate.
the truth is there were lots of female leed characters prior to.
The first to appear on any Star Trek Series was Ursaline Bryant she played starship Captain Tryla Scott in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Conspiracy" (airing 1988). Then came Captain Rachel Garrett, played by Tricia O'Neil, in Star Trek: The Next Generation - "Yesterday's Enterprise"(airing 1990).
Absolutely correct. Janeway is a character who is definitely realized by most people. The characters that you mentioned here are not as realized, which would fit the title of this video more so than Janeway.
Btw I am not taking anything away from Janeway's character.
1986 Madge Sinclair's unnamed Saratoga captain in Star Trek IV
@@robertszekely8686 I didn't mention this TOS episode "Turnabout Intruder", in which Dr. Janice Lester takes over Kirk's body, on the technicality that it was a female mind in a male body. otherwise she would have been the first female captain.
Um... the first WHAT, exactly?
@@johnglielmi6428 but Dr Lester was unfit for command and the real Kirk had to switch back ...
I had forgotten that Hawk had been assimilated and attacked Picard etc. !?
I remembered that he was left adrift and I was a wee bit salty in regards to the whole,
"No one left behind " thing. Admittedly it didn't appear to be much that could be done .
That said, now that you've reintroduced to the facts at hand..I find myself intrigued
(I paused the video in order to merrily contemplate a couple of
( what could be/ could have been scenarios to amuse myself )..
There were two scenarios which came forth from the void and quickly coalesced
into two possibilities which struck me as viable storyline arcs which I would like to posit
are the following-
1. Hawk is quite neatly staged for the very classic Star Trek trope -
(well, truthfully,this sort of story is found regularly in most forms of fictional media) - that being a..fallen friend/ally's return as a bitter villain and or a person being coerced into taking actions meant to disrupt,
harm, or destroy former Brothers. Hawk could have been preserved by the hosting nanite's
Leaving him adrift until the character is brought forth by the all powerful, benevolent, ideals of the cinematic writer !
Pitch found in the bottom of this page.
The next storyline that I found exciting/appealing is- ...haha I completely spaced the idea as I was putting the first one together. That said I'm sure it was some variation of Hawk being rescued and possibly because the story makes it ABSOLUTELY VITAL i.e.
Star Trek whale probe...
As seen in the film YOU PERVERTS !! Get your minds out of the gutter.
Enterprise didn't even bother to get the borg and debris of the sphere from the arctic, I'm sure he's still floating around out there.
My take was either the debris hadn't materialized by the time the Enterprise-E left (time travel shenanigans), or the ship's sensors were too heavily damaged to pick up the Borg signatures in the Arctic. Hawke, though, would likely have been orbiting Earth in a very predictable way, as he would have roughly matched Enterprise's orbit at the time he was killed.
@@irregularassassin6380 not a bad theory, just always bothered me that they hide behind the moon, so they won't polute the time line, bit they leave all the borg junk on earth.. also the sphere was destroyed after they traveled through time
why didn't the vulcons detect debris, or bodies floating in space.
@@ericsietsema2044 All good questions, and I agree that it is a bit of a plot hole. However, like a true overly-dedicated fan, we can come up with something to explain it.
The Sphere: We must remember that the Borg sphere which opened the temporal rift had just ejected itself from an exploding cube. Said cube had just suffered massive internal damage from numerous photon torpedoes and a handful of quantum torpedoes. It's possible the sphere was damaged prior to, or upon, exiting its mothership cube, and subsequently lost some components and drones in the turbulence of the temporal rift. If the debris lost in such a way "fell back" into the timeline at a later date than the sphere intended, then it's possible the Enterprise-E would not have been there to detect it.
The T'Plana Hath: I have often wondered how the Vulcans aboard the T'Plana Hath didn't detect anything amiss in orbit of Earth, or on the surface. After all, they have sensors and the Enterprise fired quantum torpedoes! However, we must also remember that the T'Plana Hath was flying a century before the NX-01! Not only that, but they likely had no reason to look for any weird Borg tech because logically, the Humans should have nothing like it. They just made their first warp flight, everything outside of Boseman would be primitive at best. On top of that, Earth had just come out of the Third World War. Vast swathes of land were probably irradiated, and I'd bet there were pockets of radioactive debris dotting the globe. As for bodies in orbit, we already know Earth had numerous satellites. They had had satellites with cryogenically frozen people in orbit since at least the 1980s, and satellites with nuclear weapons payloads since the 1960s! There was probably tonnes of space junk up there, including bodies! In short, the Borg traces were likely camouflaged by the detritus and destruction of total war.
@@irregularassassin6380 amen
Eventually, the body’s orbit would decay and he would burn up in Earth’s atmosphere. Before that happens, his body would most likely be mistaken as space junk if it was detected.
I liked the real life ties in this list. I would like to see a similar list about characters that are more important than you think due to the consequences of their actions. I for real thought you were going to say the guy from First Contact was one of the drones from Enterprise.
I always forget that Harry Kim was always an ensign, even though Tom Paris was promoted, demoted then promoted again and again, making him a Lieutenant Senior Grade.
If Harry were in the military in the middle 1990's, when the series ran, he would have automatically been promoted to Lieutenant Junior Grade, six months after being commissioned.
In fact Starfleet would have automatically promoted him until the crew were declared dead.
Personnel who are out of communication are presumed to be serving honorably and that's the only criteria for being made LJG.
About the xindi crewman, it's Timey Whimey wibbly wobbly
Rom, what about Rom? He did, y'know, Rom-my things... :P
I'm not convinced we've seen the end of Icheb. With a potential 7 of 9 series and Q2 still out there he may not take Icheb's death well.
Doesn't matter, Kurtzman is incapable of telling a person from their character. Kurtzman was imagining he was killing the actor, not Icheb.
That scene will always be baffling. Why would you resolve a problematic actor with a substantially more problematic scene? Why not swap out the actor? Kurtzman literally kept the actor employed to punish him. Just... why?
Absolute pleasure hearing from Brie again.
I'm constantly reminded how good all the TrekCulturers are, even if our wonderful boyo Seán does hog the spotlight.
Sean is a legend leave him alone
Thanks for the 👍🏻 Sean is a great guy on screen and between the sheets😉
@@stevenmanclark7361
Seán's fantastic; a positive, wholesome guy. Though my experience with him is limited to what I see on-screen rather than between the sheets.
Nog and Rom... shouldn't need to explain those two. 😻
You guys forgot Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan and Space Seed vi Khan ~ This 1982 movie changed Star Trek ~ Without this one movie, I do not think we would have a Star Trek Franchise?
Its individual charactors they are talking about not movies
"Which was, at the time, often called the Gay Plague." Come on ya'll. That was in the early/mid 1980s. By the time Enterprise had come out it was much like today where it seems like everyone had forgotten about it, hence raising awareness. The episode also has a feeling of drug addiction and how we feel like "they got themselves into it so they don't deserve help" about it.
Thank you for saying what every honest person was thinking, but wouldn't say. I really wish people would stop pretending that it's the the 1960's or 1980's depending on what victim group they are discussing.
I had the same thought. Revisionist history in this episode, for sure.
Janeway was I think the best captain. The reason I say that its the way they wrote her role she wasn't written as she was better then the men that worked under her unlike how they write women into roles today. This is what made the show so great.
The good old days when the word "equality" actually had meaning!
You should've added Captain Ben Sisko and Captain Archer to the List !
We need to get a statue for Ben Sisko.
Ro laren definitely deserves a mention and her own spin off series
I've heard that Kira on DS9 was originally supposed to be Ro Laren but the actress didn't want to do it.
Same thing with Paris/Locarno.
@@LanMandragon1720 I didn’t know that but I don’t think it would have been the same and also who would have been Kira. Nana Visitor was perfect for that role.
@@AndrewD8Red they renamed Locarno as if they used that character they would have to pay writer of original tng episode royalties every time they used him
@@jamesmarshall1979
I'd heard that before too, but I'm not 100% sure it's entirely true. Still seems plausible.
I also love Kate Mulgrew I love Captain Janeway and I think it's awesome that she has a statue in indiana! I have family there I didn't realize there was a statue so the next time I go there to visit them I think I'm going to have to make a little day trip lol! That is just awesome!
bree, youre a great presenter, but, and i cant stress this any more clearly, what about the cheif, miles o'brien, yknow, the most important man in starfleet? like seriously, how could you leave him off this list?🖖
To date (Nov.2022) the Next Generation is the best Star Trek storyline I've ever seen. It's due to the characters chosen mostly. I appreciate Gene Roddenberry creating this television program, God bless his soul.
Personally I thought how they ended Enterprise was a bit of a letdown. turning the entire series into a holodeck simulation was a bit weak on a writers level.
They kind of didn't have much choice, as the show was cancelled despite the production crew having had planned for more seasons. They had to come up with SOMETHING on short notice. (They thought about Shran joining the main crew, and I was so gleeful to see more of Combs. Ah well, didn't get the chance.)
I agree that the final episode of the series was lousy. However, I don't think it turns the entire series into a holodeck simulation, only that one episode.
I'm a friend of Manu (Intiryami) and... yeah _occasionally_ he's said some dumb stuff. But he tends to take back the dumbest stuff when he realises "oh crap, that stuff was dumb". We all do that, don't we? What I can say of my personal experience is that he's a very compassionate, witty, deeply caring man who's always treated me, a mentally ill trans/intersexed bi (mostly lesbian) woman, and a victim of some... really messed up stuff I don't really wanna elaborate on here... with the _utmost_ respect and empathy.
I've not asked him permission to write this (feel like I should go the route of asking forgiveness afterwards instead lol), but... he has _also_ been through some... incredibly nasty times, not quite the same as the various forms of abuse I've suffered (albeit with some crossover) but definitely traumatising. I personally think that's left him with a few rough, spiky edges, same as you find with most people who've been through trauma. The horrific abuse I've been through (which he's always been absolutely lovely, understanding, and supportive about, he's really been a rock when I've needed it) has left me with a few rough and spiky edges too. S'probably why I think Sonic the Hedgehog is so rad. But while I think his perception of the Kevin Spacey/Anthony Rapp situation _was_ highly flawed (seemingly from a lack of knowledge over the exact details), I really love Manu, he's fundamentally good people, and I feel he really doesn't deserve to be "cancelled" over one bad take.
Otherwise, great video! Though you missed Groppler Zorn, and as an Allison Pregler fan I can't _ever_ forgive that omission 😁
Some heavy stuff to read in there.
I don't want to say much, because I'm one of the people who judged Manu harshly for what they said.
I get people say stupid things and then regret it and look to apologise. Some people will accept their apology, and some people won't.
As to some of the personal details you touched on, just want to say for what it's worth, I see you commenting a lot on various channels I follow and you always seem like a positive, progressive and wholesome person. I respect that and I hope you're proud of the person you are, because the person you are seems pretty darn awesome.
@@AndrewD8Red ❤ thank you, that's really sweet of you. Like _I_ find those particular tweets distasteful and I've talked to Manu about them, I really got the vibe he regrets them. I think he outright said he does but my mental health issues make memory incredibly fuzzy so I can't say for sure.
I have huge self esteem issues, it's hard to think of myself as a good person so sadly that pride is usually not present. Though I guess I can take a lil pride in being empathic towards, and sticking up for, a friend! I'm not gonna tell you what to think of him but... I'd ask you maybe reassess whether it's worth giving him a second chance.
Tonight is a rough night for me. My mental health hasn't exactly been superb lately. My anxiety is playing up about leaving the comment I did because I know there's people who are far harsher than you about him, and I often struggle to trust my own judgement because again... self esteem issues. I try to be strong... I try to fight through the depression and the panic attacks... sometimes I succeed! But often I get snagged a bit in an emotionally unhealthy area.
@@AndrewD8Red actually to get waaaaay less heavy for a mo... when I first met Manu it was as a Trek fan and he was the first cast member I'd talked to so I was a bit starstruck, and it felt weird for a little while... but now, after we've stayed in touch and I've known him for over a year at this point (maybe two?), I kinda have the opposite problem... If I watch an episode of Voyager with him in it, part of my brain goes "hey, that's my buddy Manu, what the frell is _he_ doing on the television!?" 🤣 and then I feel proud of him when his acting is on point, although I have to work harder to suspend disbelief.
@@DissociatedWomenIncorporated Whatever you do though, please make sure you make some time for your own mental health. Anything mentally calming and healing.
I find watching Galaxy Quest helps 😁
Forgiveness is something deeply lacking in the world right now. We all make serious mistakes, I know I have. Mine caused me to reevaluate my position on forgiveness, because you don't realise how important it is until you desperately need it yourself.
Forgiveness is the well in the desert. The thirsty can only drink if others have left some for you.
I hope your mental health improves tonight. Thank you for sharing your perspective.
Some have already said it, but Uhura ist possibly the most important character at least by measure of The inclusion of Janeway and Stamets, as she was a woman of color in an important technical job. Especially the color part was important as it helped create awareness that people of color are really capable and „normal“ people when most Americans didn’t take that simple truth for granted.
I‘d also argue Sulu was more important for being Asian/ Japanese descent (the old World War II enemy) than being revealed as gay in 2016 and maybe Chekov is also important for being a Russian character in the time of the Cold War (although Walter Koenig admittedly wasn’t of Russian descent). Generally, featuring a multicultural and multi-ethnic group of characters in a prime time tv-series (let alone Sci-Fi) was absolutely revolutionary back in 1966.
The *real* reason that the Lt Hawk being gay storyline was dropped is because Neil McDonough is a devout Christian, and refused point blank to play a gay character.
He even refuses to kiss women onscreen because of his beliefs, believing in the sanctity of marriage. This has led him to be almost blacklisted in Hollywood, a subject he's spoken out on many times.
Seems that freedom of belief only counts to all religions, so long as that religion isn't Christianity...
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The fact that they didn't even mention this in the video is shameful.
@@silverwriter6739
The reason they didn't mention it in the video is because they were too busy trying to push the whole 'gay character' thing, that's all they seem to care about- representation.
They don't like the truth, because it doesn't fit their narrative, and when that truth happens to be that the actor refused to to play a character that went against *his* beliefs, then they conveniently brush it under the carpet.
First Contact was made in the last century, which is why Neil McDonough could- and did- refuse.
If an actor tried to do that today, he'd never work again.
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Everyone has a right to freedom of belief, although my version of Christianity isn't anti-gay at all, however if it affects the type of roles which a person is willing to play, it's very likely to negatively impact an acting career.
Unwilling to even kiss an actress? The guy needs to talk to William Shatner.
I loved Lt Hawk and really thought he was to be. New cast member for the films to come... ah well.
This list needed Uhura/Nichelle Nichols. She inspired many black girls to dream big for themselves, including Whoopi Goldberg/Guinan. In a time when black people were considered lesser and unintelligent because of their way of speaking, Uhura was a) on the bridge, b) treated as an equal, c) proficient in many skills, and d) an expert in communication!
Ah Lt Hawk the ultimate redshirt.
Also the phaser that Dunbar uses is the very same as a discovery era Section 31 phaser (insert conspiracy theory here)
Lt. Keru was not a Scienceofficer,but Security.
could you try softening the peaks of the audio when the commentator speaks? it's very very sharp....
Not gonna lie, I had a big smile on my face when I saw the part about Janeway. Thats just awesome. Star Trek continues to inspire and motivate people around the world to, as it is said in "Star Trek: Picard": Look up.
Janeway's importance is not unknown or understated, so she really didn't belong on this list. :/
Their treatment of Ichep is why I still haven't watched any of Picard.
Lt. Hawk is Robert Quarles in Justified if there are any crossover fans who didnt catch it around here lol
Without Elim Garak's destruction of the Romulan diplomatic spacecraft near the end of "In the Pale Moonlight" (DS9), the Federation would have lost the war to the Dominion at that point. The guy even got punched out by Captain Sisko, who apparently was big on 'rules' for a desperate war of survival, showing that "No good deed goes unpunished."
The very talkative Morn helped save the Alpha quadrant from the Jem Hadar by sneaking a message to Sisko/Federation that the mine field was coming down. If he hadn't done so thousands of Jem Hadar ships would have flooded the alpha quadrant from the wormhole.
How they killed Icheb off in Picard was appalling..but then again, Picard was appalling.
Great video. But "Living Witness" wasn't in an alternate timeline, just hundreds of years in the future.
Voyager is a museum on an alien plant, no time line changes. It would be a cool story to see the EMH back up come back to earth though
Ok i will point these facts out again.
Niether Janeway, nor Sisko were the first of their groups in that position. The captain of the Saratoga (the very same Saratoga Sisko served on) was both female and African American in star trek 4. I realize this 45 seconds of lore is oft overlooked for both being the main protagonists but the truth is they are not the big ground breaker the captain of the Saratoga was.
It always pissed me off that in all the 7 years that KIm was on Voyager Janeway never even promoted him. I mean it wasn't like he was incompetent.
Is this a prime example of the Bamboo Ceiling?
Nichelle Nichols as Lieutenant Nyota Uhura should probably have taken the number one spot, or at least shared billing with Kate Mulgrew’s Janeway as she began a legacy of inspiration not just for young women but for people of color starting from 1966.
would love to see the xindi return
Gay characters were not rare during TNG era TV. Star Trek was the outlier. Granted permanent cast characters were rare.
I mean, it was only even rare if you forget about 1/5 of the characters on Kids in the Hall, the recurring Men on Film segments (among others) on In Living Color, Brian on The Larry Sanders Show, Ellen on Ellen, multiple characters on Northern Exposure... and then gay representation in TV exploded almost immediately after TNG finished with Sex and the City, Ally McBeal, Cybill, Will & Grace, Friends, Spin City as just quick examples from the next 4 or 5 years after TNG!
Sulu's, daughter, from the movie that Kirk, dies in. A reminder to us all..and Kirk, that time is always leaving us behind, and you have to find ways to live life, before the end. Kirk and Picard, both..never had any kids. -(Young Mr. Markus, doesn't exactly count, because they were not really a "proper family", because his mother never included Kirk in his short lived wreakless life).
They were considering getting rid of Harry in favour of Kes? Wow, that would have been such a disaster. Replacing Kes with Seven was the best thing for the show :v
I like that they went suddle with Sulu being revealed as gay in the Kelvin timeline. By doing so they show that a gay person something normal and nothing that is important to point out for the characters in the movie. That is sending a much stronger message than awkwardly making other characters point out him being gay or lengthy talks about that shouldn't be a problem in a setting where they claim that already isn't a problem anymore.
Not related to this list, but I'm curious why you said the future Voyager museum episode is in an alternate timeline.
There is a reason that the original Star Trek was light years ahead on race issues and sexism, but bizarrely later Star Treks lacked on gay issues, and made women little more than sex objects. It was as a result of homophobic Rick Berman taking over for Gene Roddenberry. Berman gleefully stated that his job was to make sure that gay content didn't enter the show so that, he claimed, it wouldn't "upset the network." (Contrast this with Roddenberry putting the first interacial kiss on TV, or diverse representations in the cast, or plaing women in positions of power) It was also Berman who made sure that there were women poured into what amounted to spandex outfits to appeal to teenage boys, while writers had to fight to craft powerful women on the show.
You know, i hate it when shows say stuff thats wrong. Janeway was not the first, Rachel Garrett was the first on screen female captain in star trek. TNG Yesterdays Enterprise.
Uh, the late Nichelle Nichols paved the way for many in the genre of SciFi and in the 'real' world as an 'official' special advisor and recruiter for the NASA space program. She even received a security clearance for that job. Her contribution to and for equality is a legacy few can measure. Don't get me started on Jimmy and Leonard.
This theme points to one thing that I loved about season two of DISCOVERY (spoiler alert, for you who haven't seen it): the appearances of the Red Angel seemed at first to be completely random, but they tied together all of these disparate characters who, when introduced, just seemed incidental, but who ended up being huge contributors to the solution of the problem at hand.
or, if you're not 12, it was an embarrassingly simple concept that I unraveled the *moment* the Red Dipshit was shown
@@topogigio7031 Really? You knew the moment she saw the Red Angel on that asteroid that it was her, and that it was leading the crew to find all these people and places (including the sphere, which they hadn't even encountered yet) that would piece together a solution to a problem that didn't even yet exist, and plot points that hadn't even been introduced? Congratulations! You're even smarter than the writers of the show.
In other words, you "unraveled the moment the Red (Angel) was shown":
* What it was
* How it functioned
* Who created it
* Who was wearing it
* Jett Reno's importance aside from comic relief
* The significance of Terralysium
* The importance of Saru's return to his home planet
* The appearance of the sphere and the disposition of its "memory"
* Spock's mental breakdown and its significance
* Mae, Tilly's abduction into the mycelial (sp?) network, and "the monster"
* The appearance of the Chancelor and Ash/Vok's son and his disposition and how it tied into
* Pike's acquisition of the time crystal and its connection to THE MENAGERIE, and how that tied into
* Spock and Michael going back to Talos IV
* The "queen" coming back and why she was coming back
* The AI data taking human form in an attempt to get the sphere data.
* The angel being both Michael's mother AND Michael
* Pike and crew realizing that the only solution was for Discovery to go so far into the future that the data couldn't be retrieved.
Should I go on, or would that be dipshit of me?
How about Cpt Pike. He is, after all, the one who took a chance with a young, rebellious James Kirk when no one else would. And Kirk, of course, saved the universe several times over subsequently🤔
The two most decorated starfleet officers of all time? I think you've missed the concept of the video!
So, the height of the AIDS crisis was the '80s into the early '90s. By the time Enterprise was on, nobody was calling it "The Gay Plague" anymore.
You also identify at least three different gay characters as "the first one"...
Where do you get this stuff??
Jadzia already existed at this point, the episode rejoined had also already come out in 1995. We just going to forget about her?
Compromise: Original Series Hikaru Sulu was unofficially bisexual and was confident enough in his queer identity that he felt it didn't require broadcasting to every single crewmember. This is both my headcanon (one of many) and a reasonable inference of the subtext/context of the original series of Star Trek. "Fight me" quoth the fangirl.
Title should be
2 Star Trek Characters who were more important than you realized, and 8 Star Trek Characters who we threw in because of race, gender or sexual orientation
I sure hope they don't do something stupid and needlessly graphic to Icheb. Beginnings of Picard being ass
I think Spock is important not only in the original star trek also in the movie where Spock was instrumental in realigning the warp drive.
0:09 is that so? I think it is never established, that the Episode plays in an alternate timeline and there is further nothing to suggest that as discrepancys or something. i think it plays in the future of the main timeline on an planet in the delta quadrant, when voyager is long away.
Thank you for this list. I appreciate all your work.
Love your screen name, BTW.