That was definitely the motivation behind starting to share my numbers like this. I want more people out there on this hustle inspiring others and getting to do this full time and the best way I know how is to show them how I'm doing it!
Well done bro! I used to do firedancing for events like weddings and corporate functions etc. I thought I would be able to do it fulltime, I just could not get enough gigs in a month for it to become fulltime. At most I made a couple hundred dollars in a month. For me it was a decent side hustle at least. My advice to anyone considering flow-arts as a job is to start it as a side hustle. Do not quit your day job and pray it will work because that's a risky move. It's also convenient that firedancing and flow oriented work is mostly always at night so having a day job and firedancing side hustle is very doable. ❤🔥
I will definitely echo this sentiment. I was running my channel concurrently to holding down a traditional job for a good 2-3 years before I finally made the leap to full time. It takes a while to build momentum and find your voice. I think it's a good idea not to jump into this full time until you've done some significant work to find your unique voice and have connected with an audience. It takes some time to make that happen and there were lots of points where I thought about going back to traditional employment and just doing this as a hobby again. I'm glad I stuck with it, though! By far the biggest and most important shift for me was viewing what I was doing as a business and seeking out information on how other people had started businesses on RUclips. Seeking out those answers was instrumental to my getting to this point and I keep finding new answers that guide me to the next step!
I understand where you are coming from by not sharing your income in later years. But this was really inspiring especially as someone whom hears often how it isn't possible. I didn't know you have been doing this so big THANK YOU for being transparent. Maybe people are encouraged by it but haven't said anything yet.
Thank you for sharing I'm new to making flow my full time job and needed this type of vid and info thank you so much ! Flow love! Stay funky fantastic friend!!!!!
I’m very inspired by your transparency. I use the flow arts in my whip cracking and hope to make a living with that one day soon. Thanks for sharing and for making this kind of content.
I always love your live stream classes and will definitely be using ur discount codes probably in 2024. I always look up to you when you do sponsorships. I love supporting you in any way I can. You are an amazing flow artist and I feel so blessed to fall in love with poi more than I did when I first picked it up.
I think these videos were a successful series and a good cliffhanger to leave off on. You were open about it, and showcased a reasonable start that had a steady climb. results may vary, but concept is documented, and for that we thank you.
Thank you for sharing and being transparent! I think this has a lot of value for flow artists hoping to move into the art as their main source of income. I'm sorry to hear it didn't have the impact you were hoping for, but I appreciate the value of this and all your videos.
Thank you for sharing. I feel that it is important to share these things as a realistic guide for others following. Unfortunate that your contemporaries don’t feel the same.
Thank you for sharing this! I wish these videos had been around when I took a year off my full time job to be a full time performer. And I wish I had kept better accounting records… I’d totally be down to share. As it is, I’m gonna take you up on your offer. Making a note to share my income as a part time performer soon. Not the same but maybe it’ll help someone too. I love your transparency. It’s inspiring. ❤
In all honesty...this business took many years to build and a lot of mistakes and wrong turns went into it. I'm hoping other people can learn from those lessons learned and avoid making the same mistakes themselves!
@@DrexFactor I appreciate that honesty and your videos definitely help me as a performer, even though I’ll probably never again take a year off to be a full time one. We shall see though… never say never. And I wouldn’t be mad if you ended up continuing this video series. 😉
It's not a d_ measuring contest in my perspective. I see $50K as modest compared to other careers but absolutely phenomenal in the world of poi instruction. We know you're proud and flexing a little is fine. But overall I get the feel that you actually want to help people like me. The only thing you didn't mention is something like "Okay, so now that you know there's potential for money to be earned in Patreon, I dare you to try and come snipe some of my market share." Now THAT would be a flex. And everyone's thinking it to themselves: "I could do some version of that." But the fact is... you grinded for 10 years. You basically have a masters degree in pattern analysis and kinesthetics. This is what you deserve for that hard work. I wish you made $100K.
Releasing my numbers certainly isn't a d*ck measuring contest, but I've gotten some responses from other Flow Artists privately that are less along the lines of "that's cool and here's my numbers but I don't feel comfortable putting them out to the public" and more along the lines of "oh, I bet you want to know how much *I* make, then!" As for the suggestion of challenging people to snipe at my market share...so this is one of those things that I find absolutely baffling about people watching me do this from the sidelines. There is no market share of mine to snipe...there's a marketshare of one's own to create. When I first started making tutorials, Nick Woolsey was already out there. My making tutorials didn't steal his viewers--I brought completely different people into the poi world because I delivered lessons in a very different fashion and that appealed to a slightly different crowd. This grew the number of people in the Flow Arts overall--it didn't result in my stealing Nick's audience. People would watch Nick for one reason and watch me for completely different reasons. There is no scarcity in this market...we are nowhere close to saturation. More people doing this equals a bigger market for everyone. I'd love to make $100K doing this, honestly! I've only been doing it seriously as an entrepreneur for maybe 5-6 years, though, so I still have a lot to learn and a lot of directions that I could pivot in. If there is one thing I've learned through this process it's that businesses do not build themselves. I don't make $100K yet not because the world is unfair and it's something I truly deserve but because I haven't figured out how to make a $100K business doing this. Yet. ;)
Hi Drex, thank you as always for what you do. Can I ask if you have ideas about other income streams as a flow artist? Ones that are more focused on entertaining? It seems to me there may be a limited market for YT/ patreon flow artist tutors.
I'm afraid I have limited experience with income streams that focus more on the entertainment side (I'm assuming you're referring to things like performances and the like). There's no shortage of people that do pursue this side of the business and I recommend the Business for Flow Artists group on FB to connect with other people running that hustle. All that said...I do have to pick apart your final contention. Why is the market for YT-based educators limited? There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of people out there interested in Flow Arts and the vast majority of them are casual or hobby artists interested in expanding their knowledge and quite a lot of them are happy to pay for access to resources that will help them get to where they want to go. When I first started making tutorials, Nick Woolsey was already ahead of me in every way: his production values were better, he had a much bigger audience, and he was the de facto name in poi education. The market was already saturated, right? Thing is: attention online doesn't run according to the same rules of scarcity that operate in a market with a limited number of clients booking artists for performance slots. I didn't eat into Nick's audience. I added my own to the Flow Arts. People who come to my videos do so not just because of the individual topics that I tackle, but also because they connect with me as a human being--my personality, my way of delivering information, my unique way of approaching things. There were some people that learned well from Nick's style and some that didn't. Because my style was different, I was able to offer services to people whose needs weren't already being met. And in the end that meant the entire market grew. Right now we only have a handful of instructors making educational content available in the online space. Each of those voices is important and the more voices we have, the bigger the audience that the industry as a whole has access to. Trust me, we are nowhere near saturation for online instructors. What we do have a scarcity of is imagination and ambition.
What about income from performing gigs? I just started out as a professional flow artist (whatever that means...finally getting paid for my art) and most of my income came from performing gigs
Making your financial report a youtube video as a guide to others is such a pro move
That was definitely the motivation behind starting to share my numbers like this. I want more people out there on this hustle inspiring others and getting to do this full time and the best way I know how is to show them how I'm doing it!
Well done bro! I used to do firedancing for events like weddings and corporate functions etc. I thought I would be able to do it fulltime, I just could not get enough gigs in a month for it to become fulltime. At most I made a couple hundred dollars in a month. For me it was a decent side hustle at least. My advice to anyone considering flow-arts as a job is to start it as a side hustle. Do not quit your day job and pray it will work because that's a risky move. It's also convenient that firedancing and flow oriented work is mostly always at night so having a day job and firedancing side hustle is very doable. ❤🔥
I will definitely echo this sentiment. I was running my channel concurrently to holding down a traditional job for a good 2-3 years before I finally made the leap to full time. It takes a while to build momentum and find your voice. I think it's a good idea not to jump into this full time until you've done some significant work to find your unique voice and have connected with an audience. It takes some time to make that happen and there were lots of points where I thought about going back to traditional employment and just doing this as a hobby again. I'm glad I stuck with it, though! By far the biggest and most important shift for me was viewing what I was doing as a business and seeking out information on how other people had started businesses on RUclips. Seeking out those answers was instrumental to my getting to this point and I keep finding new answers that guide me to the next step!
@@DrexFactor Great points! Yes, it took me around two years to establish a client base, so not very fast at all. Thanks for the reply :)
Thanks for being so real man. You inspire me as a person, youtuber, and flow artist! ❤
Transparency in this way is such a badass thing to do!
Thank you!
I'm glad you are making this work for you, and that it is. You provide excellent value in your contributions to the community (and world.)
Thank you so much!
I understand where you are coming from by not sharing your income in later years. But this was really inspiring especially as someone whom hears often how it isn't possible. I didn't know you have been doing this so big THANK YOU for being transparent. Maybe people are encouraged by it but haven't said anything yet.
Thank you for sharing I'm new to making flow my full time job and needed this type of vid and info thank you so much ! Flow love! Stay funky fantastic friend!!!!!
I’m very inspired by your transparency. I use the flow arts in my whip cracking and hope to make a living with that one day soon. Thanks for sharing and for making this kind of content.
I always love your live stream classes and will definitely be using ur discount codes probably in 2024. I always look up to you when you do sponsorships. I love supporting you in any way I can. You are an amazing flow artist and I feel so blessed to fall in love with poi more than I did when I first picked it up.
Thank you! I love having your presence in the classes as well. Thank you for all your support :)
I think these videos were a successful series and a good cliffhanger to leave off on. You were open about it, and showcased a reasonable start that had a steady climb. results may vary, but concept is documented, and for that we thank you.
My pleasure! I'm really glad they've been helpful and that the openness has been appreciated.
Thank you for sharing and being transparent! I think this has a lot of value for flow artists hoping to move into the art as their main source of income. I'm sorry to hear it didn't have the impact you were hoping for, but I appreciate the value of this and all your videos.
As always, I appreciate the inspiration! Thank you!
Sure thing! Thank you!
Thank you for sharing. I feel that it is important to share these things as a realistic guide for others following. Unfortunate that your contemporaries don’t feel the same.
Thank you for sharing this! I wish these videos had been around when I took a year off my full time job to be a full time performer. And I wish I had kept better accounting records… I’d totally be down to share. As it is, I’m gonna take you up on your offer. Making a note to share my income as a part time performer soon. Not the same but maybe it’ll help someone too. I love your transparency. It’s inspiring. ❤
In all honesty...this business took many years to build and a lot of mistakes and wrong turns went into it. I'm hoping other people can learn from those lessons learned and avoid making the same mistakes themselves!
@@DrexFactor I appreciate that honesty and your videos definitely help me as a performer, even though I’ll probably never again take a year off to be a full time one. We shall see though… never say never. And I wouldn’t be mad if you ended up continuing this video series. 😉
Love this !!!!! Thank you Drex!!!!
You're very welcome! Thank you!
Have you though of having live classes, maybe at that park, in the future. I’m going to be in DC in September and it would be fun to take a class.
It's not a d_ measuring contest in my perspective. I see $50K as modest compared to other careers but absolutely phenomenal in the world of poi instruction. We know you're proud and flexing a little is fine. But overall I get the feel that you actually want to help people like me. The only thing you didn't mention is something like "Okay, so now that you know there's potential for money to be earned in Patreon, I dare you to try and come snipe some of my market share." Now THAT would be a flex. And everyone's thinking it to themselves: "I could do some version of that." But the fact is... you grinded for 10 years. You basically have a masters degree in pattern analysis and kinesthetics. This is what you deserve for that hard work. I wish you made $100K.
Releasing my numbers certainly isn't a d*ck measuring contest, but I've gotten some responses from other Flow Artists privately that are less along the lines of "that's cool and here's my numbers but I don't feel comfortable putting them out to the public" and more along the lines of "oh, I bet you want to know how much *I* make, then!"
As for the suggestion of challenging people to snipe at my market share...so this is one of those things that I find absolutely baffling about people watching me do this from the sidelines. There is no market share of mine to snipe...there's a marketshare of one's own to create. When I first started making tutorials, Nick Woolsey was already out there. My making tutorials didn't steal his viewers--I brought completely different people into the poi world because I delivered lessons in a very different fashion and that appealed to a slightly different crowd. This grew the number of people in the Flow Arts overall--it didn't result in my stealing Nick's audience. People would watch Nick for one reason and watch me for completely different reasons. There is no scarcity in this market...we are nowhere close to saturation. More people doing this equals a bigger market for everyone.
I'd love to make $100K doing this, honestly! I've only been doing it seriously as an entrepreneur for maybe 5-6 years, though, so I still have a lot to learn and a lot of directions that I could pivot in. If there is one thing I've learned through this process it's that businesses do not build themselves. I don't make $100K yet not because the world is unfair and it's something I truly deserve but because I haven't figured out how to make a $100K business doing this. Yet. ;)
These videos are so informative!
Thanks! I'm glad they're helpful!
Super appreciate this.
Sure thing!
Hi Drex, thank you as always for what you do. Can I ask if you have ideas about other income streams as a flow artist? Ones that are more focused on entertaining? It seems to me there may be a limited market for YT/ patreon flow artist tutors.
I'm afraid I have limited experience with income streams that focus more on the entertainment side (I'm assuming you're referring to things like performances and the like). There's no shortage of people that do pursue this side of the business and I recommend the Business for Flow Artists group on FB to connect with other people running that hustle.
All that said...I do have to pick apart your final contention. Why is the market for YT-based educators limited? There are tens if not hundreds of thousands of people out there interested in Flow Arts and the vast majority of them are casual or hobby artists interested in expanding their knowledge and quite a lot of them are happy to pay for access to resources that will help them get to where they want to go.
When I first started making tutorials, Nick Woolsey was already ahead of me in every way: his production values were better, he had a much bigger audience, and he was the de facto name in poi education. The market was already saturated, right? Thing is: attention online doesn't run according to the same rules of scarcity that operate in a market with a limited number of clients booking artists for performance slots. I didn't eat into Nick's audience. I added my own to the Flow Arts.
People who come to my videos do so not just because of the individual topics that I tackle, but also because they connect with me as a human being--my personality, my way of delivering information, my unique way of approaching things. There were some people that learned well from Nick's style and some that didn't. Because my style was different, I was able to offer services to people whose needs weren't already being met. And in the end that meant the entire market grew. Right now we only have a handful of instructors making educational content available in the online space. Each of those voices is important and the more voices we have, the bigger the audience that the industry as a whole has access to.
Trust me, we are nowhere near saturation for online instructors. What we do have a scarcity of is imagination and ambition.
What about income from performing gigs? I just started out as a professional flow artist (whatever that means...finally getting paid for my art) and most of my income came from performing gigs
I didn’t have any. I don’t like performing, so I built my business around not needing it. I retired from performing entirely in 2018.
@@DrexFactor ohhh okay I see!
Start off with $100,000... ^_^
Thank you for sharing i appreciate your content.