EL34 vs. KT77 Power Tubes In A Marshall Circuit
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
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Today folks...I've been tube shopping! :P My Hughes & Kettner Puretone is a 40w Marshall Plexi-type amp, designed around the good ol' fashioned EL34 power tubes...the glassware powering the majority of those old Marshall tones we know and love. But a few years ago, I put some KT77's into the H&K instead as they're completely interchangeable...but never bothered to find out how much of a difference they did or didn't make.
Recently, I began to think about this - and wonder what going back to EL34's would be like. So I bought a brand new (but burnt in) set of both of these tubes, and today wanted to put them side by side to see what differences there are between them. Cosmetically, the EL34's glass is a little bit shorter than the KT77, and it's a little bit fatter. The plate is also a fair bit longer than the KT77. But are those differences purely cosmetic...or will they impact the overall sound of the amp?
What do you think? A subtle difference? Or really not worth thinking about? Comment below!
Guitars are a Gronlund R16 Redeemer Jr with a TV Jones Ful-Fidelity Filter'Tron; a Heritage H535 w/ Monty's PAFs; and a Gibson SG Standard w/ OX4 Low-Wind A4 humbuckers. All recorded through a Hughes & Kettner Puretone (Fane Ascension F70 speaker; Aston Spirit Condenser, Shure SM57 & sE R1 ribbon mics) with a Schoeps CMC6 room mic.
0:00 Intro
2:11 Clean
4:25 Low Gain
6:06 Heavier Gain
8:23 Outro
joeperkinsmusic
jp@joeperkins.co.uk
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Excellent video man. I tried EL34s, KT77 (which were stock) and 6L6s in my Diezel VH4. Honestly I love 6L6s, I've ever loved that sound, but KT77s are fantastic tubes. A sort of hybrid between EL34s and 6L6s. More low end, less congestion in the lower mids, more clarity and string separation, more headroom. EL34s are more compressed and breaks up sooner.
Fantastic video JOE!!!♥
Heres my thoughts, EL34 is more "Boxy" "Growly" in the mid-range the KT-77's are far more open I can hear the clarity in both the clean and over driven tests, to me it makes the amp sound "Bigger" both are great can't go wrong with either but if you want headroom and a slight top-boosty sound KT-77s are the way to go. My particular amp a weird mix between Fender and Marshall so I think this would suit it really well.
My amp is single ended class A, with a NOS Genalex KT66 and a Celestion Gold...just lovely sounding with clean glassy highs and smooth growl when pushed. Amazing for pedals too. Love the KT tube family! :)
What amp is that?
Very cool and informative video. Thank you
kt77 more glassy and smoother breakup, like finer crushed pebbles instead of small rocks. i think i prefer the kt77
Great video , after hearing your final review in front of the amp , it might be confusing hearing it on my laptop because I was hearing
bold and nice low end mids from the KT77's and juicier high ends ! Oh well , RUclips is what it is !
Hey Joe, thank you for the video. To my ears the EL34's seem to have more note separation and clarity. The KT77's seem to have this very subtle effect of increased sustain.
Hi Joe, I really like your videos. You manage to find topics that are always interesting to me and do a great job explaining your experiments and making the constraints clear. One thing that I would suggest to you is to boost your voice in the spoken parts. I watch your videos on my big tv and speakers and I find myself constantly reaching for the volume control when you switch between speaking and guitars. Out of a scale of 100 (unsure if lin or log), I have your spoken parts at level 56 and guitar parts at 46. It's a marantz NR1606 and I believe the scale is roughly one unit 2db of attenuation, so 5db difference.
Speaking of relevancy, I've been spending the last days figuring out which tubes to buy for the new-to-me 2005 mesa dual rectifier :) It's cool to see how big of a difference can be expected from new tubes :)
Keep up the great channel, I enjoy it!
Thanks for the feedback RE audio. Usually what I do is set the guitar volume to peak at -1.5dB maximum (any higher risks distortion creeping in on encoding/playback), and then I add some compression to the spoken sections to smooth it out a little, then adjust the level to a point where it feels equivalent to the guitars for that particular video (it will always vary a little depending on what I'm demoing, how dynamic the guitar audio is, etc). Of course, the playback medium will change the balance too - many devices normalise/compress/re-EQ the audio, so it'll sound different for everybody. Just listened back to this vid on a laptop and phone and the v/o sounds about right to me - perhaps your TV is doing some audio trickery behind the scenes that's unbalancing it a little. Thanks for the kind words RE the channel :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic yep, each device is different. I notice the same thing on my macbook as well. I suspect the issue only manifests in an inconvenient way on a bigger set of speakers. If you boosted your voice a little, would it still sound good on iphone?
@@jhford I'd say so, but on most devices it would then likely sound a bit too loud. I've just got a new iPhone (first new phone in 11 years!) and it sounds ok on there. I think TVs are usually some of the biggest culprits in normalisation etc - so maybe it's having a bit of a strop! :P
Thanks man. Replacing some KT77s I just burned in my Mesa Solo 150. Needed a reminder why I went with tubes that amp can burn out in a matter of years over ones that literally lasted a decade for the previous owner and a month against my torture. It's the highs, that's what it is. The EL34's highs sound hollow to me, the note is there but there's nothing driving that note over top of any other sounds I am hearing. The KT77 those highs sound every bit as important as the lows giving our walls of sound spikes.
So are the el34 just the regular el34 that jj offers? Because there is the e34ls, el34l, etc.
I did like the kt77. I am thinking of getting a pair because my amp has high plate voltage, and i think my tubes are just about shot and im worried about screen voltage.
Anyways i did like them both, but am leaning more towards the kt77 department because i liked how the high end sounded cranked up. Thanks for the video ☺️
I felt the KT's break up was smoother and the bottom end was tighter. Like you say probably needed a bit more bass on the amp. Overall I liked the sound of both sets in different ways.👍
Good work. EL34 slightly warmer dirty sound but so close as to be negated by playing nuance. Highlights that there is often far more to be gained by playing dynamics, use of guitar volume and tone controls than differences in components. Well done on your channel.
Very nice video. KT77 is more glassy and smoother... and i think.... increase volume
Thanks for your good video and I fount an adapter (SAT UB-1) that can connect headphones by connecting to the amplifier speaker terminal on etsy. .
Hope it's a properly made, good quality one!!
I now confidently want to continue the el34 tubes when I replace mine.
How was the bias between the 2 types of tubes? Comment about the clean breaking up a bit i.e. having less headroom makes me think maybe kt77s were running too cool. After all, they should be capable of producing more power not less.
Did you rebias the amp when changing the tubes?
I mean I have experience of more than 35 years of tube guitar amps and, in some cases, especially if the output stage runs a bit cold, I most certainly can tell by listening the sound of the amp if the mains voltage changes more than 10 volts.
In the USA, where mains voltage is only around 120 VAC, the difference is even much more clear because the B+ voltage to mains voltage ratio is much bigger and mains voltage fluctuations cause much bigger B+ voltage change.
The amp is cathode-biased; no self-biasing needed :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic Yes, if the bias properties of those tubes are close to a bogey tube,
and well matched, there probably won't be any problem. But if the tube set is much hotter or colder graded, there could be a overheating risk or slight sound problem.
Cathode bias or fixed, I never change output tubes without checking the bias and balance of them. Even in the case of a cathode biased amp, to get the optimal performance, changing the cathode resistor value(s) is sometimes needed. Of course to do that you have to have proper tools and to know what you are doing because tube amps are dangerous high voltage devices.
Yeah I have cathode biased amps but my techs told me they still need to be biased , even when I bought the tubes that came with my amp it was almost too hot for my amp and almost didn’t bias right , right on the edge . I’d also double check with techs since I personally don’t know a ton about biasing an amp myself
Greetings! You can hear the difference well. KT77 reproduces more low-frequency range, so it seems that el34 sounds more midrange. Clear sound is definitely better with KT77, and hard rock overdrive is of course EL34. KT77 is something between EL34 and 6L6. A very good sounding lamp to my ears. I have an amplifier with EL34, but I definitely want a pair of KT77. It was interesting to hear this comparison. Thanks for the review.
Looks like these were the JJ tubes. Interesting to see comparisons to other brands or NOS. I know that can get expensive though.
There's a comparison of the JJ KT77's and the Genalex Gold Lion Reissues coming in a couple of weeks :-)
Those gold lions never lasted very long for me...... I like a couple Chinese tubes in a preamp but never the power section...... new sensor make decent power tubes, I like their sovtek 5881. No it's not really a 58 81, kind of its own thing, sonically it falls between A 34 and a 6 L6....... But it has more topend sizzle then either, I also like electro harmonix 34s and svetlanas
Also I'd avoid New Old Stock power tubes like the plague, especially on an old Plexi circuit where you're wanting to get all your drive from pushing the power section too hard, they just don't last and are obscenely expensive, preamp tubes on the other hand the New Old Stock mullard or amperex in your V1 slot can do wonders for your tone and last decade or two
Yes it sems to me as though the breakup is behind the initial notes on on the KT77 whereas the EL34s its more upfront.
Both alternatives sounds amazing. Good guitarrist, amp, guitars and valves. No big difference between EL34 and KT77.
EL34's for the Rock and Roll win (at least in that amp)
like the upper mid growl the kt 77 have. where the kt77 genalex or jj tubes?
Both sets were JJ
@@JoePerkinsMusic oh i missed the thumbnail, thanks!
You rock brother!!!
Didn't Jimmy Page supposedly have a few of his SLP's modded to run KT88's?
I think he did...though I'm no expert :P
6CA7 fat bottles good too!
KT77 brings much more Lowend / Lowmid Punch in the Heavier Sound, i relay like them!
Have you tried the Tung-Sol EL34B? They market them as 34s but with a bit of 6L6 in there. I was sold on some KT77s but was recommended the Tung-Sol and couldn’t be happier
I haven't - though if the differences are as subtle as they are here, I bet a quick tweak of the EQ would compensate.
I barely prefer el34, but think switching guitars makes much more of a difference.
I have to agree with another poster in these comments who said that they were close enough that price or reliability would be the deciding factor, not tone. Just the slightest tweak to an EQ knob on the amp or guitar would've wiped out the minuscule differences.
The JTM-45 was originally designed for KT-66's. Have you tried those in this amp yet? If so, how did they sound? If not, maybe another video needs makin'!
I haven't tried 66's, no...some people say they're compatible; others say they're very different and the amp needs to be tweaked to run them efficiently.....I tend to stay away from things like that as I don't ever touch high voltage :P
@@JoePerkinsMusic Better safe than sorry.
I have no idea how Marshal drive by default EL34 and if necessary a small modification for KT77.
In your case, KT77 win to details to my point of view
Not much difference surprisingly. I'd just go based on cost and or reliability
I think the KT77's were about 20% more than the EL34's, from memory! Still both _fairly_ inexpensive tubes in the scheme of things though.
Ilike the 77s in this vid but j dont trust that the difference would be good for me playef on 10 thru my 100 watt marshall
Kt77 s are warmer and compressing more, oddly they seem to have less head room....... The el34 would be better for a darker guitar, cuz to me the el34 had more bite, vice versa for the 77,....... I tried to hurry up and write this before you gave your opinion, but right after I wrote debate about the 77s being more compressed than having less Headroom u basically said the same thing. But to me I hear more low-mids in the k77 and more upper mid in the el34.... The 77 sounds warmer and fatter at least to me n is this recording
That music intro was highly American 😊😅
Dude everything you play reminds me of ACDC 😂
I wear that as a badge of honour :P
Different EL34's will sound different. I've hear ones that sound more like these KT77's and the new ones don't sound like the old ones. They're not hugely different. It depends on the amp. In this vid, the JT77's win with distortion, more mids, and the EL34 with cleans.
The kt77 is like getting hit in the face, but with a boxing glove on, wheras the El34 is like getting hit bare knuckled 🤘
American: "Power Tubes" vs Brit: "Power Chubes"
You should do lives and take requests
Maybe one day! :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic Please
KT77 seems tighter on low end .. less compressed .. a little stiff --
EL34 more fluid, liquid, smooth and compressed sustain
I could see the KT77 preferred by rythym players and the EL34 preferred by lead players
Kt77 for clarity
EL34 is grittier and the KT77 is cleaner
Came for a Marshall, got an H&K
Handwired Plexi circuit - not like most H&K's
KT = kinkless tetrode
Can I put a kt77 in the socket of an el34?
o.k.. You might need to re-adjust the bias. The other way around: putting EL34 s in an amp designed for the KT77 can be tricky: the EL34 needs the pin 1 connected to pin 8. The KT77 does not need that.
The JJ KT77's here sound very much like E.H. EL34's. They are much more balanced across the spectrum like EH EL34's which are my go to cause that balance really lends itself to a much more musical tone and a much more pleasing and versatile break up. Ive wanted to try some JJ KT77s for quite awhile but i was always diswaded by the fact that im really not a fan at all of JJ EL34's. The JJ EL34's are just too warm and dull which gives a really unpleasing break up character in the amps ive owned and tryed them in. My current amp is a Marshall DSL100HR that i run into two Orange 1x12's (one of which has a Swamp Thang 150w speaker for when i dont want to bring more than one cab with me and because its low and high focused tone really complements the V30's very mid focused tone). Ive tried a good amount of power tubes and i keep coming back to the EH EL34, its just so much better tonally than anything else ive tried in my main amp, the Marshall. But on the forums guys have recommended and spoke highly of the KT77's for a long time. I feel like what they found in the KT77 and what they like about them is very similar to what ive found in and like about the EH EL34's. So with the tube prices being high and more than double what they used to be on the few tubes you can still actually get it might be a perfect excuse to finally try the JJ KT77's. Im currently going through old power tubes that technically still work but just arent at peak efficiency anymore so its really time to get a new quad. Thanks for doing a comparison! It helped me to realize that the KT77s are closer to what im looking for in a power tube than i thought based on what KT77 users have said about them.
Try the new TAD Redbase EL34 if you go back to EL34. They are less compressed, rounder and clearer than the EHx. Sound just like the old Mullard XF3.
EL34 Rulz
Despite being so close - both with phone speaker & then headphones, to me there is quite a difference in "feel".
The KT77 seems to provide a distinctly cooler, more detached, "analytical" - even "clinical" sound to me - whereas the EL34 is definitely more warm and "emotional" in the feeling it evokes.
Excellent to know that the two options are there, depending on the effect that is desired. The KT77 might stand out better as a background guitar sound, for example - whereas EL34 might produce a more satisfying lead tone...although they could easily be reversed for a different impact.
There was so little in it I think 50% of any differences could be compensated for almost in playing style alone! But subtleties are what we're all about here :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic I often struggle to hear differences between speakers, etc - but this time I was actually surprised to be able to notice the difference in emotional impact, and I think that would come over whatever and however you played.
I have an Egnater 15 in which I can swap out the EL34 with a 6V6 as well, but don't have a good recording setup to test.
However I've noticed that so far I do seem to prefer power tube to preamp tube distortion a lot of the time, so try to keep preamp distortion low so as to max out the power tube.
@@harrywallington185 I'm much more of a power tube breakup sorta guy too - all my amps are single-channel, non-master volume for that reason :-)
@@JoePerkinsMusic I get the impression that there are some great preamp pedals out there - i.e. better than the preamp section on many amps - but usually pretty expensive.
The only lower cost exception I've found uses micro-tubes (that were the last ones to be deployed for military use) but of course even some of these units are pricey!
@@harrywallington185 KSR Ceres is the heavyweight champ of the preamp pedals.
KT77 fuller sweeter. A little more bottom end. Thanka
The kt77 seems punchier and fatter . When slamming on chords it had more of a percussive effect and it sounds cleaner too .
Check out Mark Dennison
KT77 = tighter
EL34 = big and open
KT77 it’s much more microphonic.
🫶🏻✌🏻👊🏻🙏🏻🫡
If I click subscribe will you grow eyebrows?
Kt77 sound better
no significant difference
Hey Joe I'm glad you went the extra distance compare the el34 to the kt77 and so on and so forth. however , my friend you're mom using crap tubes! yes I know Joe , those jj,'s, Grove tubes ,new tubes you say.! yes , but I'm going to say it again
..... you're using crap tubes ! everything that you get from any of those companies such as JJ's makes tubes these days there's only two factories left in the world and it's China and Russia we're not getting tubes any more from Russia that's done deal in China had a factory explosion and it's they're backed off to and everything's on backordered they're not shipping his tubes so it's left in the market is what's been hanging around and still hasn't been sold from several months ago the good news is is the quality of these tubes is very poor even though they're new in the tunnel difference between good vintage European tubes and USA tubes is far superior much clearer and and it has much more definition and character there's no comparison I supply The Black crowes with their tubes on their world tour this year and those guys use nothing but mallard men in Blackburn England and amperex in Holland they can afford to have whatever they want that's what they choose just that I put my two cents in there if anyone wants to try some real tubes contact birdhouse vintage audio tubes . I have both and I have lightly used normally in Hammond organs preamp and power tubes and rectifiers all my tubes are thoroughly tested matched and balanced on a Hickok model 600 b&k I give a generous 30-day guarante on my eBay store. I'm 100% positive feedback and I'm a 13-year-old seller. Ask for Dave
E
hanks and ask for
ask for Dave
Seems like the kt77 has more low mid "gain", if that makes sense... Same sound, with a touch more gain in the low mid department.