Hey. Demo a tube amp with long versus short SPEAKER cables. Then run the same test on some kind of solid state thing. I've noticed my tube amp is brighter with shorter cables.
@@greevar Indeed! A properly distorted root/fifth diad sounds like metal. I know that, seems like this channel is for people that do. Just because we know that chord can sound metal doesn't mean we won't watch Taylor strum that same chord forty thousand more times just to hear the different tone, articulations, or inflection each and every time it's played on/through his gear. I know how my tube amp sounds with a long ass speaker cable and I want to hear if the same effect on Taylors' rig is similar or sonically different in any way. This is an aspect of capacitance that no one seems to talk about or explore. How will we know if there's anything there if we don't look?
Are you checking out that beta cygnus update for the axe fx 3? Honestly, I'd love videos where you dial in random tones with different amps/cabs, similar to Leon Todd like videos. I just love watching people make thick tones with the axe lol.
Did you re-bias after swapping in the KT88's? I ask because they are a 6550 tube and not really designed as a replacement for the 6L6GC's. You'll notice the increase in headroom because it has a much larger plate current draw. KT66's would be a better comparison.
I am genuinely surprised by this, I think the KT88s do sound better. I had expected there to be no difference at all coming into the video. But what stuck out to me was the riff from 5:54 - 6:08, it really sounded like it was unclear. When you played the same riff with the KT88s between 8:25 - 8:39 it did sound more articulate as you said, that is a really good way to describe it. I listened to those parts again with a different set of headphones too and had the same results.
Same here! Didn't expect to hear a lot of difference, but...the difference is definitely there! You can notice it (a bit less, though) in the mix too, KT88 always sound "clearer" to me, like if they had less distortion
It’s like tone inception… listening to a guitar tone… seeing the affect the tubes have, thru headphones… then swapping headphones to see if that has an affect… at this point I decided the only way to complete the cycle was to barrow the ears of a stranger. In “METAL” fashion, I deathklok snatched my neighbors ears and gave it another listen. End result? I’m wanted for murder… and buying a set of kt88’s. Thank you sir, for s very informative video
Great video! Building my first high gain tube and using the 6L6s at the moment but hearing the KT88 in the high gain application here is opening up my eyes and ears
Until recently, I have only used solid state amps and plugins. The 88's sounded a bit louder when I heard the video in my car (filling out a form at work, not actually driving).
Subbed! Thanks for making this video. Really appreciate the transparency and thoroughness of it, including what was heard and seen after DI recording it, isolated tracks, etc. You’re absolutely right about feel being a subjective thing. That said, I heard the same thing KT88 is open and seemingly louder than the 6L6, which I’m guessing is headroom.
@@TaylorDanley NOoooo!!! the Krank rev1 + is NOT fixed bias.... SOooo Yes!!!!!! it is necessary to bias your krank... I have a Krank rev 1 + The bias pot for the current is on the circuit board & you need bias probes for ma current & know the plate voltage then calculate Plate Dissipation of 50%, 60% or 70 % & set the current to the MA calculated value or you'll damage your tubes...You'll have better sounding REV 1 Krank Rev 1 + plate voltage is normally 415 volts I can contact you by email & walk you through the process biasing my own krank rev 1 +
Love my Rev1+. I have owned the Krankenstien and the Rev 1 but the Plus is the best sounding one IMO. Oh and I run 6L6 in mine. Nice to see some Krank love!
I need to save up for the rev and or krankenstien...but I do love krank amps...I own two krank chadwicks and a rev1 jr 20 watt....what is the tone difference between the two amps?
I have both the krankenstein plus and rev plus, and they're really similar, but I think the krankenstein just has more gain and sounds a little more aggressive. The rev1 is not a super high gain amp by itself
The 700 to 1.5 k region w the 34's seem just slightly more pronounced. Other way around the kt's seem just a teeny bit thicker in the 150hz region. Overall tonally there's almost no change though. Since these are the power section I wonder if the results would have been more defined if the amp was on 10 volume wise. Cool test at any rate.
If you crank the amp, power tubes do make a difference. I initially used JJ el34's in my Carvin MTS (it has an internal bias switch). They got dark and bassy when I turned up the volume. I switched to Sovtek 5881's (6l6), and they tightened up in the low end when I cranked the amp, getting really punchy when I turned up the bass control to compensate.
From a technical standpoint, KT88 is a beefier tube... like 6550 is. It can output MORE POWER before compressing up. You're correct about the headroom. I'm an amp tech BTW. When you overdrive a power tube, that's where the mud comes from. It's HARDER to overdrive the KT88
I like your explanation and it makes perfect sense, I saw the video without reading the comments, I thought maybe KT88 takes more to get it driven, it sounded more compressed hence the articulation. But I missed that all over the place bottom end, not defined on the 6L6GC.
@@DeadKoby I really want to try the kt150 power tubes from tung sol, they have such a ridiculous clean headroom, on paper it would be perfect for more technical playing and clarity
I herd a wide dynamic range with kt88 and a narrow range with the 6L6. Plus volume. Definitely headroom but didnt hear it so much in the recording but know it from my own amps . The preamp i think is designed for the power tube intended in the original set up,for the dynamic range.
I think yes, there is a difference. From KT88 to 6L6's I expect less mids, a shift in the top end, and a shift in the bottom end. Now, will it drastically change it by 50%, no, I thinking 15%, enough to be heard, enough to give you knobs "more or less" reaction when you move the. e.g. To get the same tone, you'll have to +1/-1 on the treble and Presence, and have to bring up the mids +1. It would be changing your picking position. Different pickups, different strings, different picking approaches, different picks, they all give you a slight different tone. Changing your amp or cab would have more of a change in tone. But I do say, yes, swapping out tubes does change your tone, it doesn't "do nothing". Watching the video, now
Sounds like I was right, but I've done a lot of experimenting with tubes. I had an ENGL SE and switching from EL34 to 6L6 and biasing them was such a breeze. I also had a Mesa TOV and going from EL34 to 6L6's was also easy. You were right about the compression, I heard it too but I've never gone from KT88's to 6L6's.
There was definitely a frequency that showed up on the KT88s, around 1000hz I want to say which was flat and not noticeable on the 6L6s. The high roll off was less sharp on the KT88s as well. The lows seemed very similar. I definitely prefer the KT88s, you cheap bastard, why did you have go back to 6L6s? 🤣 Great video man! Loved the slow mo!
In the signal chain of amps there is a lot that determines tone. Transformers, speaker impedance, speaker type, cabinet substrate, tone stack, types of capacitors and resistor values. In the PCB designed amps that include a ton of surface mount technology you add a lot of noise. I noticed that Marshalls sound more balsy with KT77 and KT88 tubes. The distorted amps really get tone changes that effect the chug and high end air. These KT88’s sound sick!! Swapping tubes in point to point circuitry amps let you hear the tonal changes very heavily on the clean tones. Ive noticed that some speaker cabs made of MDF vs plywood are more middy and chuggy. Cabs made from ply have almost an acoustic guitar body resonance effect. You can really hear the internal volume on hardwood and ply cabinets.
Comment prior to watching: Dude, I'm with you all the way with KT88. Whether the PA tubes have such a Great influence with high gain stuff - idk frankly, I would say it's a mere icing on the cake, but a nice one - A touch of that Resonance and Reactance you still get to chop off with hpf/lpf in post lol ;) Just remembering Mike Soldano talking his amps' tones were totally meant to be based around preamp gain stages.... Comment after the vid: what were we supposed to do, huh? I was totally into SICK RIFFING!!! And wonderful Tube B-rolls!
Very slight difference in tone and gain KT88 deep richness in tone and and headroom 👍🏻 I suggest listening to video on good pair of headphones so audio tech ATH -M50x
My question is if you changed out your tubes and then going to a torpedo captor using a speaker IR how does the power section have an affect on it when the power tubes aren’t even pushing a cabinet?
Finally a video where there’s not another comparison between EL34’s and 6L6 tubes. KT-88 tubes are my favorite power tubes. I could hear a difference between the mids. The KT-88’s had more upper mids, 6L6’s had more lower mids. I just love the saturation the KT-88’s have. Would love to see a comparison between the KT-88’s and 6550’s.
I question the efficacy of this test due to the fact that properly operated Kt88's generally run at a higher plate voltage and greater bias as well as requiring a much higher drive signal amplitude than the 6L6's. I've built several amps designed around the KT88 and in my opinion the 88's are much beefier but not flubby in the bass range (like 6L6's can sometimes be), articulate in the mids and subtle but clear in the treble range.
I had kt88's in a Mesa Dual Rectifier years back and dug the sound. If memory serves me, the bass was still massive albeit tighter and the highs/highmids were a hair more enhanced but not shrill.
Very slight differences in headroom and openness with the 88's, but more apparent volume. I've had 2x 6L6GC's in my amp for 30+ years and like those for their rounded bell- like tones and clarity but had experience of KT88'S before that in a boutique UK amp made by Burman which utilised 4 KT88'S. 140 Watts in a 2x12 combo - the head sealed its own section atop a sealed cab so the tubes weren't hanging out in the cab. Loud enough to melt the fillings in your teeth.
correct. using less gain more vintage tone reveals so much more. all the mega preamp metal gain obscures differences, not to mention the sameness of metal playing styles, he should do both...vintage lower gain, and higher metal gain. And clean too as optional but metal guys dont care as much about clean stuff the little bit they do
I'm believe whatever you alter in a guitar setup can change things around...I mean look what just pedal order or speakers or mic placement can do....water ever works is good
🤓VERY IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE, ESPECIALLY PREAMP TUBES 12AX7's......which are fussy little buggers ( i went thru over 50 of them to find the 4 proper poitions / output values that also have fantastic great tonal abilities . AS FOR THE POWER TUBES A GREAT MATCHED QUARTET - RFT EL34 's are the best 4me , 5881's are fairly decent .
I agree with your assessment of the KT88's. I would further describe them as almost "glassy" in the low/low-mid. It would be awesome if vacuum tubes could/would be developed for the sole purpose of enhancing or modifying ambient AND latent sonic qualities; As opposed to amplifying the whole signal in particular.
I've heard the "feel" argument many times and it is definitely subjective. It is difficult to judge feel, but there's a couple good older videos on Anderton's channel where they did a Kemper vs real blind shootout with some surprising results. They had the amps in another room and switch between amps while they played them without knowing what they were. Personally, I've been really trying to rely on my ears more. In the end it's still what works for you. If you believe these tubes are better, or you prefer a tube amp over a modeler/profiler, that is your choice. Overall, I didn't really hear much of a difference in tone.
I remember that video! Yeah, I think that one is pretty good proof that the margin between tubes and digital is incredibly narrow these days. Also, the new Cygnus firmware is out for the axefx, and I'm sure that will narrow that gap even further.
big difference in person I have them all too and did the swaps, you and your amp live in person playing dynamics especially w a band, recording etc in diff mixes etc. yt vids are not accurate, too many variables color the tests, the mics, amps, guitars, pickups, player, etc too many variables that make unaccurate.
There are more tube variations than just these 2. I am a little more concerned about preamp tubes than power tubes, but they do matter. Every amp is different. Some amps don't have a big difference, some do. My amp has subtle differences, but it's enough for me to prefer one over the other depending on what setting I'm in. As far as recording goes I don't have a preference. Playing live, I do have preferences based on feel. Certain tubes can even determine how hard I strum my cleaner channels...If an EL34 makes me feel like my guitar is barking at me, then that's when the 6L6s give me a more mellow strum.
Hi just came across this video.I use to play into a Magnatone M10 which used 7189 output tubes. small bottle type like EL84s The 7189 can handle higher bias voltage. clean nice sounding amp. only 25 watts about. Anywho I bought around that time a 1970-1 Marshall Major they used GEC KT88s through the years the tubes got very expensive however these tubes are like nothing else. Standing in front of this amp it would knock the air out of your chest. I can feel the air coming out of my nose. I am not a technician but I can say JJs will not do it. however they are reliable tubes. If you are going to use any Brand of KT88s they must have 3 gutters What makes the KT88s so special is there design they are beam tetrode/Kinkless tetrode tube hence KT. Gold loin seems to make a good KT88 tube. Quality control is hard to find when buying these tubes so don't be surprised if one blows up when your cranking it up. A lot of techs run the bias lower for this reason. In my opinion Nothing sounds as good as a well made KT88. Thank you for sharing your experience wit us. c]8-)
Can’t tell anything in the mix....but solo,the KT-88’s sounded bigger than the 6L6’s....something in the high end seemed more 3D sounding with the KT-88’s....now I want to try some 88’s...
Hi. I started using KT88s in my Marshall JCM 900 back in the late 90's. The story goes like this: When I first got my JCM 900 I loved it. However I always felt that it wasn't powerful enough. One day my suspicions were confirmed when I started jamming with other guitar players who had half stacks. It was then obvious that the JCM 900 is a little weak. At the time I was working at a record store/tube amp repair shop. The owner did all the work on the tube amps. I mentioned what was going on and he brought up The Marshall Major. This is a very powerful Marshall Amp that uses KT88's. It's also very very expensive. The shop owner suggested we throw in some KT88's into my 900 and OMG the difference in volume was amazing. This mother fucker rocks the house. I'll never play my Marshall any other way. As for the tone, it does change things significantly in one way and that is with the low frequencies. It can be very boomy and muddy if you don't back off on the bass. So as long as you're aware of that you won't have any serious problems.
no big surprise here, right? I mean the difference between tubes and solid state in terms of clean audio amplification is already pretty subtle, so from one power tube type to another in the same (or as close as possible) circuit design is almost imperceptible other than a volume difference. to be fair though I could imagine a scenario where the slight increase in volume could cross the output transformer distortion threshold, in that case, it would make more of a difference so you can never really be black and white about these things. but yeah, we guitarists are the worst when it comes to suggestibility, hyperbole, and the placebo effect LOL.
Totally miss my rev+ only sold cause it was around tbe time of the tube shortage due to conflict in russia and was scared to own anthing that wasnt 6l6 or el34 never thought i would be he able to just bias for 6l6 or something else lol
I never even use my power tubes anymore on my randall thrasher lol....I just connect from the effects send into an interface or my torpedo cab impulse loader....my favorite is going through a daw using the ignite power amp simulator into the ugritone impulse loader
Amps designed to be able to overdrive the power tubes will absolutely have a tone change with different tubes. Amps designed to run the power section with clean headroom will absolutely not have as much difference from one tube to another, as long as you are swapping up to tubes with a higher voltage rating. If you swap down to a lower voltage rating, you might overdrive your power tubes in an amp that has not been built up enough to withstand an overdriven power section. It is almost certain that your modern amps will not be built for overdrive power sections, so you will likely break shit or not see a difference. If you find an amp built with over-rated parts that can handle double the output voltage in the power section, you can get really tasty power tube saturation that will be different from one tube to another. You will be pushing way more volume or power than your amp is rated for, so from the input jack to the speaker cabinet will need to have way higher power ratings than necessary for a clean power section. Honestly, unless you know how to build amps and don't mind replacing your power tubes regularly, you won't likely have to deal with the perfection I am talking about.
From what I've seen IRL and read online, the cascade/over drive character of power tube saturation has a VERY SLIGHT difference between types, as far as how tight or loose, and beyond that the headroom before breakup is MAINLY what changes. For tones like the ones you're going for, where you're not driving the power tubes, KT88 and 6L6 both give a lot of clean headroom, to point where even with the master cranked won't get much beyond some warmth register boosting of low mids and a mild sparkle on the top end without HEAVILY boosting on the way in or in the FX loop, so it's not going to make much difference. EL34's would have less wattage and volume output, and less headroom, so use those for stoner/doom/sludge, 70's retro garage rock, and other genres that call for that kind of rounded, wooly, warm, fuzzy tone.
KT88’s do not have much distortion so when you run the preamp into the power section you are mainly using preamp distortion not power amp distortion. KT88’s is like basically having a Solid State power section , so pretty good for metal
Man, that musical montage when the tubes were being swapped. Worth watching on its own. Some proper Blackened Death Metal stuff. I think that there's a very subjective aspect to tone and tone preference. I find that in this video, in this case, the KT88s sound slightly better -- slightly less fizzy, with a dynamic low-end punch. However, the difference is not substantive.
Interesting, listening to the mix there is practically no difference, but soloed they do sound different, the KT88 is more open/bright/vocal whilst the 6L6 is bit darker/compressed/quieter. So it would all depend on what and how you play and post-process your guitar. Must say that I like the sound of the KT88, although I'm a 6L6 player, will have to buy a set to hear it first hand in my amp.
There is a little bit of Black Sabbath doom and hopelessness in the 6L6s, while the KT88s have more "I'm coming to rip your face off". The 6L6s are a little more depressing or foreboding while the KT88s are a little more scary. The difference might be .5%, but it's a very important .5%.
Paused: ok the answer - it depends - if you're using preamp distortion (master volume down) the difference is ZILCH .. If you're using the amp maxed out, there'll be a mild diff in how much raw blast you can get, and bigger tubes have lower anode impedance, for a bit more low end grind (Ah you got power soak! Kewl - I used one on me ol' AC30 get grind at less crazy volume!) After: Riiight before I read you guys I thought the 6L6s were louder! Just a bit more 'hard clipping' (less articulation) than the 88's Though its subtle enough that I'm happy to use 6L6's in my new build (uprating form EL84's in my AC30-like design) Just remember folks "Tubes are NOT equalisers" - Glenn Fricker PS Its actually 6L6GC's - so FFS don't spend good money on 'vintage' NOS 6L6 A's or B;s or plain '6L6' as they're a LOWER power tube, which will burn out early in a Hi-biased amp
From what i heard, the kt88 were brighter than the 6l6s, but i liked the 6l6 more due to the compressed tone they did have. Either way the song was tight af and what ever you feel makes your tone the way you want it is the way.
KT88s are waaaay better. The articulation is so much better. I could tell what notes were actually being played and it sounded louder which makes sense.
In isolation there are nuanced differences in the frequencies the 6L6 and KT88 produce, but they are subtle. In the mix, these subtleties disappear. So, do power amp tubes make a difference - Yes, if you are playing in isolation and have an acute ear, but no if you are playing in a mix. The phase difference certainly showed how subtle these differences are, and since it was mostly sub-frequencies and ultra high frequencies that remained - ie.e frequencies that will be removed in the mix process anyways - the perceived difference has no noticeable impact on a guitar in the mix. Keep in mind, most modern amplifiers, especially metal amps are designed to generate their distortion tone in the preamp, and the power amp is designed to amplify the signal, not add extra distortion or saturation. I'd say you'll hear a more noticeable difference between an EL84 and a 6L6 or KT88 because the EL84 in low watt amps can actually distort more easily (less headroom), which is useful to super saturated tones in a 1-15W amp. I've noticed a night and day tonal difference between using the same signal chain with an EL84 amp, and slaving the preamp of the EL84 amp into a 6L6 power section of another amp. I realized how little headroom my EL84 amp had before the power amp was saturating. Awesome video. It was great to see you keep all the variables the same, instead of doing what most people do, like testing two completely different amps!
That's because you need 2.5 to 3 times more drive signal to saturate a 6L6 compared with an EL84 (so, 8-10dB more). If you set your preamp to be on the edge of breakup on an EL84 you will still be in superclean mode on a 6L6. KT66, KT88 and 6550 saturate even later, whereas EL34, 6V6 and KT77 are somewhere in between (but still closer to the 6L6). Of course, this means that power tube breakup will occur at higher volume control settings.
You gotta play the same riff in both. When you don't play the same stuff it just sounds like heavy riffage and we can't hear the difference when your hands don't play any of the previous notes/chords. Kt88s sound like you said cuz your playing damn near full power chords higher up the neck. If youd of stayed in the first 5 frets like the 6l6 riff, that's where we would have actually heard the difference
I've been exploring this question for some years now and the answer is "basically no." Especially since most people only rely on preamp tube distortion anymore. When utilizing power tube distortion I still say the difference is essentially unnoticeable if even evident. The only thing that differs really is how much headroom vs breakup the power tubes yield. I personally like weak ass power tubes like 5881 and EL34 because power tube distortion is my jam and those tubes break up early as fuck.
Yeah, I got some great feedback on the poll I posted previous to this video.. and that's one thing I didn't consider. If I had cranked up the master, maybe I would have noticed a larger difference.
You’re not going to find a huge difference running hi-gain distortion. I think Krank Amps are not a good platform to use. I would go with a more vintage-voiced amp. Baseman, Plexiglass or a Traynor would be better.
The way I see it you have to volume match. Have to. You’re definitely going to get a different response but I would say it’d be (almost) impossible to hear with heavy distortion. It may be in speed or transients. And to be honest you’re not listening to it like an audio guy. Most of us can tell the difference every time. You probably would too if you ran acoustic guitar, vocals through them but that wasn’t the point. For what you play the tone differences cannot be heard. It’s that simple.
@@LosFicosMusic idk if that's how everyone would describe it, but I think we can all agree the type of power tube makes a difference in the tone, the wattage, the headroom, et al.
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
What video do you guys want to see me make next? LET ME KNOW 👇
The Joyo Bantamp series with a drummer or for a gig. Would really appreciate it
Hey. Demo a tube amp with long versus short SPEAKER cables. Then run the same test on some kind of solid state thing. I've noticed my tube amp is brighter with shorter cables.
@@dmitriblake61 cable length can slightly attenuate the signal due to the capacitance of the longer cable. It is very tiny, however.
@@greevar Indeed! A properly distorted root/fifth diad sounds like metal. I know that, seems like this channel is for people that do. Just because we know that chord can sound metal doesn't mean we won't watch Taylor strum that same chord forty thousand more times just to hear the different tone, articulations, or inflection each and every time it's played on/through his gear.
I know how my tube amp sounds with a long ass speaker cable and I want to hear if the same effect on Taylors' rig is similar or sonically different in any way.
This is an aspect of capacitance that no one seems to talk about or explore. How will we know if there's anything there if we don't look?
Are you checking out that beta cygnus update for the axe fx 3? Honestly, I'd love videos where you dial in random tones with different amps/cabs, similar to Leon Todd like videos. I just love watching people make thick tones with the axe lol.
No Re-bias?
Kt88 - 15:00
6L6GC - 15:06
Did you re-bias after swapping in the KT88's? I ask because they are a 6550 tube and not really designed as a replacement for the 6L6GC's. You'll notice the increase in headroom because it has a much larger plate current draw. KT66's would be a better comparison.
🙌🏻
The swapping part is so good :D
I am genuinely surprised by this, I think the KT88s do sound better. I had expected there to be no difference at all coming into the video. But what stuck out to me was the riff from 5:54 - 6:08, it really sounded like it was unclear. When you played the same riff with the KT88s between 8:25 - 8:39 it did sound more articulate as you said, that is a really good way to describe it. I listened to those parts again with a different set of headphones too and had the same results.
Same here! Didn't expect to hear a lot of difference, but...the difference is definitely there! You can notice it (a bit less, though) in the mix too, KT88 always sound "clearer" to me, like if they had less distortion
It’s like tone inception… listening to a guitar tone… seeing the affect the tubes have, thru headphones… then swapping headphones to see if that has an affect… at this point I decided the only way to complete the cycle was to barrow the ears of a stranger. In “METAL” fashion, I deathklok snatched my neighbors ears and gave it another listen. End result? I’m wanted for murder… and buying a set of kt88’s. Thank you sir, for s very informative video
How about the 6550 valves they are meant to run. Such an under rated valve same as 6ca7 valves
Great video! Building my first high gain tube and using the 6L6s at the moment but hearing the KT88 in the high gain application here is opening up my eyes and ears
Until recently, I have only used solid state amps and plugins. The 88's sounded a bit louder when I heard the video in my car (filling out a form at work, not actually driving).
Thanks for clarifying you weren't driving 😂
Subbed! Thanks for making this video. Really appreciate the transparency and thoroughness of it, including what was heard and seen after DI recording it, isolated tracks, etc. You’re absolutely right about feel being a subjective thing. That said, I heard the same thing KT88 is open and seemingly louder than the 6L6, which I’m guessing is headroom.
Awesome, thank you!
Hey Taylor, Did you bias the tubes when you swapped them...??
6l6 anode current 54 ma & the KT88 Anode current 140 ma
No I didn't, I was told it's not necessary with this amp.. self biasing or something
I thought you needed to bias as well. Learned something new. Good shit.
@@TaylorDanley NOoooo!!! the Krank rev1 + is NOT fixed bias.... SOooo Yes!!!!!! it is necessary to bias your krank... I have a Krank rev 1 + The bias pot for the current is on the circuit board & you need bias probes for ma current & know the plate voltage then calculate Plate Dissipation of 50%, 60% or 70 % & set the current to the MA calculated value or you'll damage your tubes...You'll have better sounding REV 1
Krank Rev 1 + plate voltage is normally 415 volts
I can contact you by email & walk you through the process biasing my own krank rev 1 +
Cool video! I have actually thought about switching from
KT88s to 6L6s, thanks for saving me a lot of money and time :)
You just sold a set of kts …sound articulate really a difference excellent vid as always
Love my Rev1+. I have owned the Krankenstien and the Rev 1 but the Plus is the best sounding one IMO. Oh and I run 6L6 in mine.
Nice to see some Krank love!
\m/ Love it. It's a great sounding amp!
I need to save up for the rev and or krankenstien...but I do love krank amps...I own two krank chadwicks and a rev1 jr 20 watt....what is the tone difference between the two amps?
I have both the krankenstein plus and rev plus, and they're really similar, but I think the krankenstein just has more gain and sounds a little more aggressive. The rev1 is not a super high gain amp by itself
The 700 to 1.5 k region w the 34's seem just slightly more pronounced. Other way around the kt's seem just a teeny bit thicker in the 150hz region. Overall tonally there's almost no change though.
Since these are the power section I wonder if the results would have been more defined if the amp was on 10 volume wise. Cool test at any rate.
I wonder the same thing. But I think probably what would happen is a greater emphasis on the characteristics you mentioned.
The riff in the swapping part is freaking nice.
If you crank the amp, power tubes do make a difference. I initially used JJ el34's in my Carvin MTS (it has an internal bias switch). They got dark and bassy when I turned up the volume. I switched to Sovtek 5881's (6l6), and they tightened up in the low end when I cranked the amp, getting really punchy when I turned up the bass control to compensate.
I think your right, didn't know what I was hearing, but when you said " more head-room" I think that's what I'm hearing.🤘
🤘
From a technical standpoint, KT88 is a beefier tube... like 6550 is. It can output MORE POWER before compressing up. You're correct about the headroom. I'm an amp tech BTW. When you overdrive a power tube, that's where the mud comes from. It's HARDER to overdrive the KT88
@@DeadKoby
Opinions on Tung Sol tubes?
I like your explanation and it makes perfect sense, I saw the video without reading the comments, I thought maybe KT88 takes more to get it driven, it sounded more compressed hence the articulation. But I missed that all over the place bottom end, not defined on the 6L6GC.
@@DeadKoby I really want to try the kt150 power tubes from tung sol, they have such a ridiculous clean headroom, on paper it would be perfect for more technical playing and clarity
This was worth watching for the playing alone!
I herd a wide dynamic range with kt88 and a narrow range with the 6L6. Plus volume. Definitely headroom but didnt hear it so much in the recording but know it from my own amps . The preamp i think is designed for the power tube intended in the original set up,for the dynamic range.
I put kt 88s in my MB MKIV. It crushed. It had 2 of these with two 6L6 tubes
I've seen that done in a 5150 as well!
I think yes, there is a difference. From KT88 to 6L6's I expect less mids, a shift in the top end, and a shift in the bottom end. Now, will it drastically change it by 50%, no, I thinking 15%, enough to be heard, enough to give you knobs "more or less" reaction when you move the. e.g. To get the same tone, you'll have to +1/-1 on the treble and Presence, and have to bring up the mids +1. It would be changing your picking position.
Different pickups, different strings, different picking approaches, different picks, they all give you a slight different tone. Changing your amp or cab would have more of a change in tone.
But I do say, yes, swapping out tubes does change your tone, it doesn't "do nothing".
Watching the video, now
Sounds like I was right, but I've done a lot of experimenting with tubes. I had an ENGL SE and switching from EL34 to 6L6 and biasing them was such a breeze. I also had a Mesa TOV and going from EL34 to 6L6's was also easy. You were right about the compression, I heard it too but I've never gone from KT88's to 6L6's.
Great video, man!!!
real quick, that compression, could have been the bias setting. :o
@@xiwiwix well said
There was definitely a frequency that showed up on the KT88s, around 1000hz I want to say which was flat and not noticeable on the 6L6s. The high roll off was less sharp on the KT88s as well. The lows seemed very similar.
I definitely prefer the KT88s, you cheap bastard, why did you have go back to 6L6s? 🤣
Great video man! Loved the slow mo!
Love this comparison. I was actually considering swapping the 6L6s in a bugera V55. As part of a doom rig
Bruh! Excellent video! That's the kind of analysis most channels lack. Can't cheat a null test. Side note; tasty shreds!
In the signal chain of amps there is a lot that determines tone. Transformers, speaker impedance, speaker type, cabinet substrate, tone stack, types of capacitors and resistor values. In the PCB designed amps that include a ton of surface mount technology you add a lot of noise. I noticed that Marshalls sound more balsy with KT77 and KT88 tubes. The distorted amps really get tone changes that effect the chug and high end air. These KT88’s sound sick!! Swapping tubes in point to point circuitry amps let you hear the tonal changes very heavily on the clean tones. Ive noticed that some speaker cabs made of MDF vs plywood are more middy and chuggy. Cabs made from ply have almost an acoustic guitar body resonance effect. You can really hear the internal volume on hardwood and ply cabinets.
Comment prior to watching: Dude, I'm with you all the way with KT88. Whether the PA tubes have such a Great influence with high gain stuff - idk frankly, I would say it's a mere icing on the cake, but a nice one - A touch of that Resonance and Reactance you still get to chop off with hpf/lpf in post lol ;) Just remembering Mike Soldano talking his amps' tones were totally meant to be based around preamp gain stages....
Comment after the vid: what were we supposed to do, huh? I was totally into SICK RIFFING!!! And wonderful Tube B-rolls!
i think you need to add more gain
Very slight difference in tone and gain KT88 deep richness in tone and and headroom 👍🏻
I suggest listening to video on good pair of headphones so audio tech ATH -M50x
My question is if you changed out your tubes and then going to a torpedo captor using a speaker IR how does the power section have an affect on it when the power tubes aren’t even pushing a cabinet?
Finally a video where there’s not another comparison between EL34’s and 6L6 tubes.
KT-88 tubes are my favorite power tubes. I could hear a difference between the mids. The KT-88’s had more upper mids, 6L6’s had more lower mids. I just love the saturation the KT-88’s have.
Would love to see a comparison between the KT-88’s and 6550’s.
Yeah - definetly KT88 and 6550.
I have the 6550 in my ENGL Blackmore model but wonder what it would sound with the KT88´s
Man you have some sick riffs
Thanks dude!
thu metal ver., has it where you can change the tubes , very cool small changes.
I question the efficacy of this test due to the fact that properly operated Kt88's generally run at a higher plate voltage and greater bias as well as requiring a much higher drive signal amplitude than the 6L6's. I've built several amps designed around the KT88 and in my opinion the 88's are much beefier but not flubby in the bass range (like 6L6's can sometimes be), articulate in the mids and subtle but clear in the treble range.
New favorite guitarist/channel. Great content all around.
THANK YOU! 🙌
I had kt88's in a Mesa Dual Rectifier years back and dug the sound. If memory serves me, the bass was still massive albeit tighter and the highs/highmids were a hair more enhanced but not shrill.
6L6 are darker, KT88 have more girth. And I love 'em.
What model is that Kelly? It sounds awesome.
Most epic tube swapping I've ever seen!
(actually I haven't seen any...).
😂 thanks! 🙌
Very slight differences in headroom and openness with the 88's, but more apparent volume. I've had 2x 6L6GC's in my amp for 30+ years and like those for their rounded bell- like tones and clarity but had experience of KT88'S before that in a boutique UK amp made by Burman which utilised 4 KT88'S. 140 Watts in a 2x12 combo - the head sealed its own section atop a sealed cab so the tubes weren't hanging out in the cab. Loud enough to melt the fillings in your teeth.
Honestly, with Heavy Metal who could tell the difference. Distortion is subjective to the settings. Tubes don't care.
correct. using less gain more vintage tone reveals so much more. all the mega preamp metal gain obscures differences, not to mention the sameness of metal playing styles, he should do both...vintage lower gain, and higher metal gain. And clean too as optional but metal guys dont care as much about clean stuff the little bit they do
i loved both tubes there was a small change but i don't have a winner since both sounded good in my ears
hello could you tell me which is the best kt88 currently in production?
I have KT 88 Gold Lion , and they are fantastic
ohh damn ..no mention of the re-BIASing?? did you do a ree bias??that might be the diff.
I hear some differences. High end resonance/peak differences and a little softer transient with 6l6. Did you change the bias at all when swapping?
Great video very informative, but is it me getting or deaf or I can't detect any difference at all?
Oh no... I subscribed THEN hit the like button. Taylor, are you ok? Are you ok? Are you ok, Taylor?
Love the channel, btw!
Jesus dude, I give you clear and simple instructions. LIKE then SUBSCRIBE 😪😪😪
Jk, thanks dude 🙌
Me like kt88. What is ur tunning sir
I'm believe whatever you alter in a guitar setup can change things around...I mean look what just pedal order or speakers or mic placement can do....water ever works is good
🤓VERY IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE, ESPECIALLY PREAMP TUBES 12AX7's......which are fussy little buggers ( i went thru over 50 of them to find the 4 proper poitions / output values that also have fantastic great tonal abilities . AS FOR THE POWER TUBES A GREAT MATCHED QUARTET - RFT EL34 's are the best 4me , 5881's are fairly decent .
I agree with your assessment of the KT88's. I would further describe them as almost "glassy" in the low/low-mid.
It would be awesome if vacuum tubes could/would be developed for the sole purpose of enhancing or modifying ambient AND latent sonic qualities; As opposed to amplifying the whole signal in particular.
I've heard the "feel" argument many times and it is definitely subjective. It is difficult to judge feel, but there's a couple good older videos on Anderton's channel where they did a Kemper vs real blind shootout with some surprising results. They had the amps in another room and switch between amps while they played them without knowing what they were. Personally, I've been really trying to rely on my ears more. In the end it's still what works for you. If you believe these tubes are better, or you prefer a tube amp over a modeler/profiler, that is your choice. Overall, I didn't really hear much of a difference in tone.
I remember that video! Yeah, I think that one is pretty good proof that the margin between tubes and digital is incredibly narrow these days. Also, the new Cygnus firmware is out for the axefx, and I'm sure that will narrow that gap even further.
I believe everything matters when it comes to tone. Pick material and thickness can be profound*
Fun watch! When are we gonna get to see that video in the background? :)
SOON. Song release March 5th, so probably same day.
Tubes may be a slight difference, bt it is a noticeable difference. Kt88 sounded great. Definitely less compressed
Thats what I heard as well!, I might do KT88 swaps in my PRS just to see if it’ll make a difference
big difference in person I have them all too and did the swaps, you and your amp live in person playing dynamics especially w a band, recording etc in diff mixes etc. yt vids are not accurate, too many variables color the tests, the mics, amps, guitars, pickups, player, etc too many variables that make unaccurate.
There are more tube variations than just these 2. I am a little more concerned about preamp tubes than power tubes, but they do matter. Every amp is different. Some amps don't have a big difference, some do. My amp has subtle differences, but it's enough for me to prefer one over the other depending on what setting I'm in. As far as recording goes I don't have a preference. Playing live, I do have preferences based on feel. Certain tubes can even determine how hard I strum my cleaner channels...If an EL34 makes me feel like my guitar is barking at me, then that's when the 6L6s give me a more mellow strum.
Hi just came across this video.I use to play into a Magnatone M10 which used 7189 output tubes. small bottle type like EL84s The 7189 can handle higher bias voltage. clean nice sounding amp. only 25 watts about. Anywho I bought around that time a 1970-1 Marshall Major they used GEC KT88s through the years the tubes got very expensive however these tubes are like nothing else. Standing in front of this amp it would knock the air out of your chest. I can feel the air coming out of my nose. I am not a technician but I can say JJs will not do it. however they are reliable tubes. If you are going to use any Brand of KT88s they must have 3 gutters What makes the KT88s so special is there design they are beam tetrode/Kinkless tetrode tube hence KT. Gold loin seems to make a good KT88 tube. Quality control is hard to find when buying these tubes so don't be surprised if one blows up when your cranking it up. A lot of techs run the bias lower for this reason. In my opinion Nothing sounds as good as a well made KT88. Thank you for sharing your experience wit us. c]8-)
Can’t tell anything in the mix....but solo,the KT-88’s sounded bigger than the 6L6’s....something in the high end seemed more 3D sounding with the KT-88’s....now I want to try some 88’s...
Hi. I started using KT88s in my Marshall JCM 900 back in the late 90's. The story goes like this: When I first got my JCM 900 I loved it. However I always felt that it wasn't powerful enough. One day my suspicions were confirmed when I started jamming with other guitar players who had half stacks. It was then obvious that the JCM 900 is a little weak. At the time I was working at a record store/tube amp repair shop. The owner did all the work on the tube amps. I mentioned what was going on and he brought up The Marshall Major. This is a very powerful Marshall Amp that uses KT88's. It's also very very expensive. The shop owner suggested we throw in some KT88's into my 900 and OMG the difference in volume was amazing. This mother fucker rocks the house. I'll never play my Marshall any other way. As for the tone, it does change things significantly in one way and that is with the low frequencies. It can be very boomy and muddy if you don't back off on the bass. So as long as you're aware of that you won't have any serious problems.
Hi Taylor, you could have just clicked the 6L6 Icon at the bottom of the Granophyre plugin, would've been loads easier :D
But that's not as fun as swapping real tubes! :D
that's not real tho, it;s someones subjective coding
no big surprise here, right? I mean the difference between tubes and solid state in terms of clean audio amplification is already pretty subtle, so from one power tube type to another in the same (or as close as possible) circuit design is almost imperceptible other than a volume difference. to be fair though I could imagine a scenario where the slight increase in volume could cross the output transformer distortion threshold, in that case, it would make more of a difference so you can never really be black and white about these things. but yeah, we guitarists are the worst when it comes to suggestibility, hyperbole, and the placebo effect LOL.
Totally miss my rev+ only sold cause it was around tbe time of the tube shortage due to conflict in russia and was scared to own anthing that wasnt 6l6 or el34 never thought i would be he able to just bias for 6l6 or something else lol
Shootout starts after 13:00
I never even use my power tubes anymore on my randall thrasher lol....I just connect from the effects send into an interface or my torpedo cab impulse loader....my favorite is going through a daw using the ignite power amp simulator into the ugritone impulse loader
Amps designed to be able to overdrive the power tubes will absolutely have a tone change with different tubes. Amps designed to run the power section with clean headroom will absolutely not have as much difference from one tube to another, as long as you are swapping up to tubes with a higher voltage rating. If you swap down to a lower voltage rating, you might overdrive your power tubes in an amp that has not been built up enough to withstand an overdriven power section. It is almost certain that your modern amps will not be built for overdrive power sections, so you will likely break shit or not see a difference. If you find an amp built with over-rated parts that can handle double the output voltage in the power section, you can get really tasty power tube saturation that will be different from one tube to another. You will be pushing way more volume or power than your amp is rated for, so from the input jack to the speaker cabinet will need to have way higher power ratings than necessary for a clean power section.
Honestly, unless you know how to build amps and don't mind replacing your power tubes regularly, you won't likely have to deal with the perfection I am talking about.
Of course they do. But don't expect it to translate over RUclips especially if you have cement ears or don't run the amp loud.
From what I've seen IRL and read online, the cascade/over drive character of power tube saturation has a VERY SLIGHT difference between types, as far as how tight or loose, and beyond that the headroom before breakup is MAINLY what changes. For tones like the ones you're going for, where you're not driving the power tubes, KT88 and 6L6 both give a lot of clean headroom, to point where even with the master cranked won't get much beyond some warmth register boosting of low mids and a mild sparkle on the top end without HEAVILY boosting on the way in or in the FX loop, so it's not going to make much difference. EL34's would have less wattage and volume output, and less headroom, so use those for stoner/doom/sludge, 70's retro garage rock, and other genres that call for that kind of rounded, wooly, warm, fuzzy tone.
KT88’s do not have much distortion so when you run the preamp into the power section you are mainly using preamp distortion not power amp distortion. KT88’s is like basically having a Solid State power section , so pretty good for metal
No big differences as you demonstrate...but i already known 😅. Great video as always! I'll check it later in my studio for a better comparison
Man, that musical montage when the tubes were being swapped. Worth watching on its own. Some proper Blackened Death Metal stuff.
I think that there's a very subjective aspect to tone and tone preference. I find that in this video, in this case, the KT88s sound slightly better -- slightly less fizzy, with a dynamic low-end punch. However, the difference is not substantive.
Yeah, it's not a huge difference...
I still left the KT88's in my amp, lol.
@@TaylorDanley Yeah, but it's worthwhile enough to enjoy/appreciate while playing. I'd also keep the KT88s in the amp after this experience.
Great video man, thanks!!!!🤘🤘🤘🤘
what software / app do you use to program Drum tracks?
I think I might hear a bit more low mids in kt88's as well as the top end.
KT88 and 6l6 sound too similar, but there's a noticeable difference between 6l6 or kt88 vs el34 in the same 100 watt marshall amp
Interesting, listening to the mix there is practically no difference, but soloed they do sound different, the KT88 is more open/bright/vocal whilst the 6L6 is bit darker/compressed/quieter. So it would all depend on what and how you play and post-process your guitar. Must say that I like the sound of the KT88, although I'm a 6L6 player, will have to buy a set to hear it first hand in my amp.
Fuck I can't tell. I'm thinking about changing my screen name from kcrich13 to Tone Deaf and Tinnituscized..........
:D:D:D:D LOL
I like the KT88s better than the 6L6s. The better headroom of the KT88s is my preference.
There is a little bit of Black Sabbath doom and hopelessness in the 6L6s, while the KT88s have more "I'm coming to rip your face off".
The 6L6s are a little more depressing or foreboding while the KT88s are a little more scary.
The difference might be .5%, but it's a very important .5%.
Paused: ok the answer - it depends - if you're using preamp distortion (master volume down) the difference is ZILCH .. If you're using the amp maxed out, there'll be a mild diff in how much raw blast you can get, and bigger tubes have lower anode impedance, for a bit more low end grind (Ah you got power soak! Kewl - I used one on me ol' AC30 get grind at less crazy volume!)
After: Riiight before I read you guys I thought the 6L6s were louder! Just a bit more 'hard clipping' (less articulation) than the 88's
Though its subtle enough that I'm happy to use 6L6's in my new build (uprating form EL84's in my AC30-like design)
Just remember folks "Tubes are NOT equalisers" - Glenn Fricker
PS Its actually 6L6GC's - so FFS don't spend good money on 'vintage' NOS 6L6 A's or B;s or plain '6L6' as they're a LOWER power tube, which will burn out early in a Hi-biased amp
From what i heard, the kt88 were brighter than the 6l6s, but i liked the 6l6 more due to the compressed tone they did have. Either way the song was tight af and what ever you feel makes your tone the way you want it is the way.
KT88s are waaaay better. The articulation is so much better. I could tell what notes were actually being played and it sounded louder which makes sense.
Please demo Peavey Valveking 100w its so underrated. If you cant do that please demo a Hughes and Kettner GM40D or BS200. Cheers!
In isolation there are nuanced differences in the frequencies the 6L6 and KT88 produce, but they are subtle. In the mix, these subtleties disappear. So, do power amp tubes make a difference - Yes, if you are playing in isolation and have an acute ear, but no if you are playing in a mix. The phase difference certainly showed how subtle these differences are, and since it was mostly sub-frequencies and ultra high frequencies that remained - ie.e frequencies that will be removed in the mix process anyways - the perceived difference has no noticeable impact on a guitar in the mix.
Keep in mind, most modern amplifiers, especially metal amps are designed to generate their distortion tone in the preamp, and the power amp is designed to amplify the signal, not add extra distortion or saturation.
I'd say you'll hear a more noticeable difference between an EL84 and a 6L6 or KT88 because the EL84 in low watt amps can actually distort more easily (less headroom), which is useful to super saturated tones in a 1-15W amp. I've noticed a night and day tonal difference between using the same signal chain with an EL84 amp, and slaving the preamp of the EL84 amp into a 6L6 power section of another amp. I realized how little headroom my EL84 amp had before the power amp was saturating.
Awesome video. It was great to see you keep all the variables the same, instead of doing what most people do, like testing two completely different amps!
That's because you need 2.5 to 3 times more drive signal to saturate a 6L6 compared with an EL84 (so, 8-10dB more). If you set your preamp to be on the edge of breakup on an EL84 you will still be in superclean mode on a 6L6. KT66, KT88 and 6550 saturate even later, whereas EL34, 6V6 and KT77 are somewhere in between (but still closer to the 6L6). Of course, this means that power tube breakup will occur at higher volume control settings.
...but the kt88 looks cooler and has more girth. Erbody knows girth matters
THIS.
You gotta play the same riff in both. When you don't play the same stuff it just sounds like heavy riffage and we can't hear the difference when your hands don't play any of the previous notes/chords. Kt88s sound like you said cuz your playing damn near full power chords higher up the neck. If youd of stayed in the first 5 frets like the 6l6 riff, that's where we would have actually heard the difference
I've been exploring this question for some years now and the answer is "basically no." Especially since most people only rely on preamp tube distortion anymore.
When utilizing power tube distortion I still say the difference is essentially unnoticeable if even evident. The only thing that differs really is how much headroom vs breakup the power tubes yield. I personally like weak ass power tubes like 5881 and EL34 because power tube distortion is my jam and those tubes break up early as fuck.
Yeah, I got some great feedback on the poll I posted previous to this video.. and that's one thing I didn't consider. If I had cranked up the master, maybe I would have noticed a larger difference.
Marginal difference in the isolated tracks (KT88's are slightly brighter and clearer), no noticeable difference in the mix.
i think they do ..but i think it comes down to the BIAS situation.
Ahhh, the crate shape knob
You’re not going to find a huge difference running hi-gain distortion. I think Krank Amps are not a good platform to use. I would go with a more vintage-voiced amp. Baseman, Plexiglass or a Traynor would be better.
i would say the difference is negligeable
*edit , i was about right , yes the volume is lower ,and maybe a little bit more treble on the 88 .
Could you try swapping those emgs with SD blackouts or fishmen fluence ones????..... Just wanna see the difference
The way I see it you have to volume match. Have to. You’re definitely going to get a different response but I would say it’d be (almost) impossible to hear with heavy distortion. It may be in speed or transients. And to be honest you’re not listening to it like an audio guy. Most of us can tell the difference every time. You probably would too if you ran acoustic guitar, vocals through them but that wasn’t the point. For what you play the tone differences cannot be heard. It’s that simple.
i think that they make a difference, but a small one, and the major one is just placebo
I did not notice difference at all.
The gain had a different character.
6l6s has a more edgy, brittle tone, kt88s sound more buttery. I guess it depends on what you playing as far as style
*Glenn Fricker has entered the Chat, and stares at you in silent judgement*
No difference. The music is pretty fucking heavy and sweet though.
The chubby tubes have a wide field. The skinnier ones sound more narrow
*judgment
What is wrong with you?! xD
@@LosFicosMusic idk if that's how everyone would describe it, but I think we can all agree the type of power tube makes a difference in the tone, the wattage, the headroom, et al.
@@dildojizzbaggins6969 I forgot how to spell for a moment. Words make meanings, let me make talking to give you thoughts in head out loud unga bunga
@@dildojizzbaggins6969 Sorry I was a premature Audio Fetus when I wrote that comment. I was wrong hehe
Definitely prefer the KT88s... by about 1% more.
Paused video at 2:00 and I say the difference will be very small.