I grew up on Anne McCaffrey, she was one of my mum's favourite authors so many of her books were around the house. If you're looking for books that focus on making you think, hard SF or in depth examination of morality etc. then she's largely not going to give you that. What she was great at was telling extremely enjoyable stories with interesting characters, and there are so many tropes and ideas she invented or made popular that have since become staples of both the SF and fantasy genres. She mostly wrote space opera and particularly planetary romance (not part of romance if you're unaware!) which is a genre I wish would come back in to fashion
It is! But slowly… and i agree. I hope to read more of her work soon. I think character heavy books and great storytelling help bring readers to scifi….
@@secretsauceofstorycraft @secretsauceofstorycraft McCaffrey's Dinosaur Planet/ Planet Pirates series is great, and she co-authors somr of the series with Elizabeth Moon and Jody Lynn Nye. Her Brainship books are very good. I love the Crystal Singer and Powers That Be for their concepts, but she is most famous for her Pern novels.
I grew up in the 1950s and discovered SciFi by way of short story collections I found in the library. In those days, there weren't many readers of SciFi and publishers always brought out hardback editions which were expensive to produce. As a result, the authors of the 50s wrote mainly short stories which were published in SciFi and fantasy magazines, which were inexpensive to publish. As a result, most of the best SciFi in the 50s was in the form of short stories. Asimov, Heinlein, Bradbury and others were the most successful writers, but even they couldn't make a living just writing. You should really try to find some collections. In particular, look for Asimov's story titled "The Last Question", one of the most mind-blowing short stories ever written. I also recommend Heinlein's novel "Stranger in a Strange Land" and Theodore Sturgeon's "More than Human" - two novels which deal brilliantly with truly big ideas. He is generally considered the inspiration for many of the great writers of the 50s and 60s. And he was much better than most of them at making his characters convincing and complex. By the way, Bradbury was mainly a short story author - one of the most popular writers of the time even outside the Sci-Fi and fantasy community. The Martian Chronicles is actually a series of short stories tied together with a bit of narrative, which may be why you liked some parts of it more than others. I agree with you that Card's "Speaker for the Dead" is much better than "Ender's Game". You should know that originally, Card wrote it as a stand-alone novel whose main character wasn't Ender, but then realized that changing him to Ender would add depth to the story. You should also check out Philip K Dick's short story "We Can Remember it for you Wholesale" (which was the inspiration for the film "Total Recall"). His ability to make the reader feel that reality maybe isn't real is amazing.
The Martian chronicles being a collection of short stories rather than a novel makes a TON of sense, and I think this would have changed the way I approached it and enjoyed it. I am a big advocate of short fiction and hope to feature more of it on my channel so I very much appreciate your recommendations and would welcome more! I would love to do them justice if I can.
Check out Senna Henderson's short stories about The People. They are quite different in subject matter and style than anything else written in that period. They were collected into one volume called Ingathering in 1995.
Orphans of the Sky is an early work. The Past Thru Tomorrow might be Heinlein's most accessible work- an anthology of his connected short stories. It's long, but mostly shorter pieces.
Another endorsement here for The Past Through Tomorrow. It’s the collected stories of Heinlein’s “future history” series, though all the stories are stand alone. That anthology is really the only Heinlein you ever need read. IMO it’s his best work. His novels, from Stranger In a Strange Land to his last, To Sail Beyond the Sunset, with few exceptions, grow increasingly more self indulgent and creepy. That last novel is perhaps the most self indulgent, bilious collection of tripe ever put between two covers.
Great video! Heinlein's work is all over the place because his political views changed during his writing career. At one point early on Isaac Asimov referred to Heinlein as "a flaming liberal." Later on he was considered to be conservative, and then a Libertarian. In fact many consider him to be the father of libertarianism ("The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" as an example). Asimov's views, on the other hand, never changed. My favorite Fantasy author is Trudi Canavan, who wrote the Black Magician Trilogy (and prequel), although I also really like the Xanth series by Piers Anthony.
Heinlein wasn't dumb enough to be a libertarian. It is just that libertarians have delusions of intellectual adequacy that leads them tu glom onto Heinlein because of TANSTAAFL.
I was born in 1950 and began reading proper SF about 1960, so most of what you're talking about I read on publication. You got it. Disagree with you here and there and love to sit down and have a chat but you got it! 'Cave' of course IS Plato and a couple of other slips but I think you're achieving exactly the perspective you set out for. Keep it up. Will subscribe.
I just finished Childhood's End and it was fantastic. I scoured your videos and your description of it here made me read it. Wow, it was a great book. Thanks so much for doing these videos. Without you and Jonathan I think I would be reading books I didn't like and would eventually give up. For example, if I read too many books like Shadow of the Torturer, I would give up reading lol. Thanks Whitney
Thank you for the video! Young people into SF is always great and the multitude of concepts and ideas you will find there are very important. I started reading SF at 9 years. "Miss Pickrel Goes To Mars", 🙂 58 years ago. I read (and have, plus a lot more) most of the Golden Age of SF - 1939 to approximately 1950 - mostly created by the editor of Astounding magazine, John W. Campbell Jr., whose goal was to educate the average 14 year old American youth. The beginning of The Golden Age is usually considered the July, 1939 publication of "Black Destroyer" by A. E. Van Vogt. Van Vogt went on to publish many completely new concepts in SF, particularly in short stories and his very influential novels; Slan, The Weapon Shops of Isher, The World Of Null-A, The Voyage Of The Space Beagle, many more. I subscribed to Analog, Galaxy, Worlds of If, then Asimov's for a 30 year span. I learned a lot, from the hundreds of editorials, SF in general and the fan discussion letters! As I recall, most of the Fathers you chose, besides being great, considered Jules Verne, HG Wells particularly and Hugo Gernsback The Fathers of SF. As far as Mothers go, let's not forget C. L. Moore, Kate Wilhelm and E. Mayne Hull, etc.. RAH was not really racist or sexist, that seems to be presented by some who dislike a few of his characters political thoughts. Strong willed and intelligent females appear in a multitude of his works. "Delilah And The Space Rigger", "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag" - Wow, "Citizen Of The Galaxy", "The Rolling Stones", "Have Spacesuit Will Travel" - a plethora of strong females, "The Man Who Sold The Moon, Requiem" stories - Harriman's wife is a very strong infuence, despite her short appearances. If you liked "The Dispossessd" you may like "Anarchaos" by Donald Westlake. Which I place with "1984", "Animal Farm", "Brave New World", and "The Monitors" and "A Plague Of Demons" by Keith Laumer. So much to read and learn from! I would place the absolute end of the Golden Age in 1972, with Keith Laumer's stroke. The "New Wave" began in the early 1950s. C. M. Kornbluth and Frederik Pohl were among those authors. If you have never read "The Cosmic Expense Account" short by Kornbluth, it is certainly worth it! Black Destroyer, free online www.prosperosisle.org/spip.php?article324
I have fallen in love with short fiction and am jealous you lived the golden age. I would love to be able to redo this project in a year with more knowledge and more exposure. Will write a few of these down and see if i can find from my local used bookstore- thats always the trick. Ive been looki g for gateway by F Pohl for awhile but i might just have to buy it new….
Your videos are really high quality. It's clear the work you put into them. I hope your subscriber count grows commensurate to this. Always an interesting watch, thanks.
I'm yet to read Orphans in the sky but I love Nonstop by Brian Aldiss with exactly same premise i.e.generational ship where people don't know they're on one.
@Secret Sauce of Storycraft So I just finished Orphans and for me Nonstop wins by a mile. Way better characterisation, emotions, believability, development, twist. Orphans are original but that's it for me.
Very interesting video. A lot of stuff I had not heard of even though I have been reading sci-fi for 50+years. For classics I would have included Gordon R Dickson, James White, Joseph Green, Hal Clement amongst others. Keep up the good work and thanks.
Thanks for dropping those names, i will check those out. I love connecting with the different perspectives for more books to read. Let me know any other suggestions.
I am surprised that you didn't include Jules Verne in your 1800 series. His work may also be considered hard sci fi, in that he is detailed in how things work. I do think you misunderstood The Martian Chronicles. In some ways it is analogy to the opening of the Western parts of what is now the U.S. even down to the fate of the Martians. Of course the ending is very different than what occurred in the West. It was very chilling. The dedication to Childhoods End was simply that Clarke no longer believed that humans could change in the way he described. After the book he hosted a show that convinced him that anyone claiming such abilities were all con artists.
I haven't personally read Jules Verne although I could have included him. Several other commenters mentioned martian chronicles was actually multiple short stories put together for a novel- something I wish had been made clear to me from the beginning.
@@secretsauceofstorycraftHis best book in my opinion is The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, and the series around it is fabulous. However, Stranger in a Strange Land is a great book, it's not his best in my view.
As far as Clarke goes, you picked probably my favorite of his stories. If you feel like trying another, I would recommend "Rendezvous With Rama", which gives a real sense of wonder. Just don't subject yourself to any of the sequels. They are reads to survive, not enjoy.
I actually just bought the Rama book! He is SO good at sense of wonder scifi. Bummer about the sequels tho. (But thanks for the warning.. and for watching)
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Thanks for the reply! Just found your channel amongst the multitude of "bookTubers" and subscribed. As far as the Rama series goes, Clarke lent his name to a few of the immediate sequels, and that's about it. I believe he did a general outline for the second book, but other than that, had nothing to do with the rest of the series.
@@sleestack13 at least it doesnt reflect on him other than loose association. I’ll have to get on this book soon! (My TBR is already overfull so Ill make sure its near top for next few months)
I consider Asimov's prose really grey. It tells the story but does not knock you out with the beauty of the writing. If you like Asimov's robot stories, try the Caliban trilogy by Roger McBRide Allen. Really great handling of the three laws, and colorful, fun writing.
Judging by his memoirs, he was aware and kinda proud of it. He described his style as clean, colourless window through which you can clearly see and artistic styles as colourfull windows of cathedrals. And then he pointed out that modern table glass is big achievement of modern age :) At least that's what I recall. In any case, his memoirs "I, Asimov" are great and interesting read. It covers a lot of history of sci-fi since he is part of it. Very readable, small chapters by topic. His style fits this kind of book extremely well. It made me love classic scifi with all its flaws.
Give the 1800s one more shot with Jules Verne, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. The sequel The Mysterious Island. The stand alone Journey to the Center of the Earth. All of these are good reads. They capture the exploration era of the 1800s when something new and exiting could be just beyond where we've gone before.
@secretsauceofstorycraft 20,000 Leagues and Mysterious Island (the very unknown sequel) are more "realistic". Journey to the Center of the Earth is more "campy" but Vernes descriptions are so realistic.
I never read much Heinlein, but "Starship Troopers" was the one I liked the most. "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" is one of Dick's most famous if not his most famous novel, although it is brilliant. "The Man in the High Castle" is also brilliant. Like other of his SF, it doesn't provide simple answers. I think it's more interesting for having a mysterious ending rather than a dull, absolutely concrete one. Another novel of his that I think is among his best, is "Galactic Pot-Healer". It's quite unlike the other two novels, but that's what makes it great. I didn't like "Fahrenheit 451" so much, but I thought that "The Martian Chronicles" was excellent. It does have a definite ending. I've read two of Octavia Butler's novels, but haven't been so impressed yet. Despite this, I think she's a very good author though. Ursula LeGuin is great. I liked "The Dispossessed", although it's very many years since I read it, but I preferred "The Left Hand of Darkness". I really didn't like "The Handmaid's Tale", it was really dull. Another author that I thought you might have included on your list of female SF authors, is Alice Sheldon [James Tiptree Jr.], who has exerted an important influence over the genre, even though much of her writing hasn't appealed to me. Another novel I liked by a female writer, is "Ice" by Anna Kavan, although she never actually wrote for the genre, and died soon after writing it. It's great though. I like "Frankenstein", it is the seminal SF novel, as you say. Brian Aldiss called her the mother of science fiction. I read Wells "War of the Worlds" and "The Time machine", but they didn't appeal much. I think as you said, it was that "voice" of his. Another later great SF author who wrote outside of the genre, during the era of the pulp magazines, was Olaf Stapledon. I particularly liked his "Star Maker". "Dune" I found to be long and tedious. I failed to know what it was about. I didn't like "Neuromancer" much, a better novel that I think you'd call Cyberpunk, is Bruce Sterling's "The Artificial Kid". I agree with you about "A Canticle for Leibowitz". "Nineteen Eighty-Four" is a great novel and SF novel. I've just read Orwell's very interesting non-fiction book, "Why I write". A very good video.🤩
Thank you! Many mnay people have mentioned star maker, by olaf and I need to get my hands on a copy. It’s interesting to me how many classics do hold up over time and how many really dont….
Stapledon's "Last and First Men" is very good too, but I couldn't read "Sirius". It was very dull. To be a classic, it has to have had quality and be original to start with. I think all those you liked were. @@secretsauceofstorycraft
The thing with the Man in the High Castle is that the alternate history aspect is secondary and not really that important, the setting could be anywhere but it's just used to explore ideas of historicity, how things could have unfolded differently had different choices been made or chance played out slightly differently (if FDR's assassin hadn't missed is the specific example in the book). The Nazis winning WW2 thing is just used as a basis to raise those questions, it's not meant to be an alternate-history thriller which is why so many are disappointed by it especially if they've come from the TV show. I personally think the book is great and I was pondering for ages after finishing it but hey.
I see someone else pointed out that it's just 'Foundation'. Was surprised that you didn't finish the trilogy. I would recommed that you should; the last two are relatively short and are easy reads, and the three tell a complete story. The trilogy is considered one of "the" science fiction classics. Also, if you wanted to try Heinlein again I would recommend The Door Into Summer. An easy read and one of my favorites.
Thanks for the tip! I recently just finished foundation & empire and second foundation -- honestly they were fantastic!!! One of my all time favorite series. I have rest of series on order! Will check into more Heinlein, i have read a few more by him and have enjoyed. I will look into getting a copy of The Door Into Summer!!
This video was interesting and entertaining. I don't generally watch videos this long and I made it to the end of this one. I like your honesty and candor about many very well known books. I'm just really beginning my reading journey so I don't want to get bogged down in these big name books if they're no good. I'm thinking I have similar taste to yours as I loved the Hyperion series. Thanks for such a thorough video.
Minor correction 2001 A Space Odyssey was written simultaneously with the film and they influenced each other. PS I'd like to recommend Rendezvous with Rama and almost everything by Michael Crichton!
Heinlein very often spends time on the relationship between the individual and the State. Just because a character is racist doesn't men that Heinlein is. He is often accused of not writing women enough, and when he does write women he's accused of writing women really badly. But he also writes incredibly strong women who his male characters understand they could never surpass. He takes on being trans in an important short story (watch the movie Predestination before reading the short story), and in the book I Will Fear No Evil. Any race can provide an evil character for Heinlein. Typically it's a human that acts far worse than any alien. Citizen of the Galaxy is another juvenile you might like. Or also Podkayne of Mars.
The movie Minority Report is based on a Philip K. Dick novella called The Minority Report. I’d say that was a better movie than Blade Runner, and it had a much bigger box office. So I’d say then that that was Dick’s most famous work.
Minority report was incredible! Lots of PKD’s works made for great watching!! But its thru someone else’s interpretation rather than his own words…. As for his most famous work… probably up for debate but u make a good point
I completely agree on The Man in the High Castle being a big disappointment. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is much better. I would also throw in one of the OGs of time travel - either Wells' The Time Machine or Asimov's The End of Eternity - to give people perspective on where so many time travel fundamentals and tropes stem from. Also, fun fact: Before Kubrick made 2001: A Space Odyssey he actually really wanted to adapt Childhood's End, but the rights were already tied up so he and Clarke worked together to write an original story inspired by Clarke's The Sentinel.
Wow! Thats really cool. I had no idea! I did read end of eternity but it was after the filming of this. Honestly, I wish I read the Time Machine instead of Invisible Man….
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Her Witch World books, Trillium series, and the Halfblood Chronicles are some of the greatest, along with so many other works...🤙🏻😋
I had no idea LeGuin invented YA. It's funny you found The Dispossessed to be so dense when Earthsea is written to literally not be dense. I thought The Dispossessed was phenomenal.
Great video! I would love to hear your thoughts on the sci-if of the 1980’s. One of my favourite authors is CJ Cherryh. Nobody talks about her these days 😢
Asimov if my most favorite! He was also a great college textbooks author. The foundation series is my least favorite of Asimov. Love Heilein especially the weird ones. GROK!!!
You ever notice how similar the plot of Fahrenheit 451 is to the plot of Logan's Run? 1) In the future it's illegal to own books (live past 30) 2) Montag (Logan) is a fireman (sandman) who enforces the law by burning books ('retiring' runners) 3) But when Montag is caught with a book (Logan's life clock is accelerated) he decides to go on the run from his colleagues. 4) He gets scooped up by the Resistance and eventually brings down the system that he once believed in. Now that I think about it, Minority Report is pretty much the same. Can anyone think of where the this plot first came from?
H.G. Wells is genius, you might think all the interessting things you can do with invisibilty is cool, but Wells concludes justly that its a problem, because you are no longer seen, you are no longer part of human society. Eventually all the cool stuff isnt worth it. Therefore the book focuses on 'curing' invisibility. Wells thought things through.
Prime's Man in the High Castle has been masterfully adapted in my opinion, as I agree that Dick screwed it up a bit, probably as his high turned into an hangover, he ran out of ideas and just said "fk it"! 😅 Edit: Neuromancer. Oh man, seriously, other than sci-fi anime, I don't think there's anything else that influenced my idea of the future, and to a lesser extent my life, more than Gibson and his own "visuals" of the future, if it makes any sense. Maybe you need to read his other works to appreciate him a little more, and watch his interviews, he's extremely humble and down to earth for someone that writes in such a style. 1984: perfectly said 👍🏻🖤
Hi! Long time Sci-Fi (and others) reader here! "Childhood's end" and "A canticle for Leibowitz" are two of my all time favourites. If you allow me the correction: "The allegory of the cave" is by Plato, not by Aristotle!
I am a bit sad that you did not include in the Women of Classic Science Fiction the author C.J. Cherryh. She won the Hugo for Downbelow Station in 1981. She is still writing now, but has been publishing since the mid 70's. Chops for including McCaffrey, though! She is well known for helping female authors get a break in the business, a great example of that is Elizabeth Moon.
My personal favorite of CJ (Carolyn Janice Cherry) Cherryh is Cyteen, which won the Hugo and Locus awards in 1988. She is really great about world building, and this particular one is low on action, high on world building and focuses on cloning, and the life of a very unusual clone.
I honestly hadnt heard of this author until recently. I am glad you recommended one to start with because her booklist is overwhelming! I will add her to my tbr as well as her foreigner series (seems very popular)
@@secretsauceofstorycraft She is extremely prolific. Rule of thumb is "Read the Hugo winners!" Cyteen is a thick book, and more psychology, intrigue and worldbuilding than anything else. Downbelow Station gives you more viewpoints with an alien world and an interesting alien species, along with a "Slow Motion" space war, and it focuses more on how it impacts people rather than the battle itself. Not a space opera, but most of it is set on a space station. Oh and I forgot to mention, she is one of the 14 living authors with the title Grand Master from the SFWA.
Really, really great video!!! I started reading SF in 4th grade. In a Catholic elementary school run by nitwit nuns who NEVER taught science. It was BORING! I actually do not know how I would have gotten through grade school without SF. Maybe I could have murdered a nun. LOL Anyway, my first SF book was Star Surgeon by Alan E Nourse. The movie title of Blade Runner came from another Nourse book. I read Orphans of the Sky and Door into Summer in grammar school. I am convinced that the age at which a child reads a book and encounters ideas can have profound effects on their thinking. I decided that I was an agnostic in 7th grade. I do not understand why people think Childhood's End is so great. I read A Fall of Moondust by Arthur C Clarke in 7th grade and thought it was better. It is a harder SF story and I am one of those elitists who does not regard Star Wars as science fiction at all. I can tolerate calling it Space Fantasy, science fantasy is an oxymoron. The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin is a social dichotomy story and as you say it has no resolution. A more interesting but not as well written tale is Voyage from Yesteryear by James P Hogan. I would bet that Hogan knew more about technology and economics than Le Guin. Science fiction is kind of an area where science and literature clash/crash/meld/raise a stink. The Two Cultures essay by C P Snow provides a culturally interesting perspective. Kurt Vonnegut said that being classified as a science fiction writer was like being put into a drawer being used as a urinal. I presume that it is not quite that bad today.
John W Campbell should be included in any discussion of founders of modern Scifi . While not a prolific author he was the publisher/editor who shaped most of the authors you mentioned in your video.
Both Martian Chronicles and a Canticle for Liebowitz were made from a number of short stories, previously published in Magazines (as was the Asimov I believe) and I think that explains the jarring between sections. The Magazines have mostly gone, and certainly aren’t the huge market they were…I think that now the influence of Fantasy has induced a LOT of bloat and an unhealthy revival of the 18th Century fashion for the 3 Volume Novel…interesting to hear a younger persons view on Classic SF!
You might b right on on the jarring sections. And its also interesting to see how the trends woth publishers and what they say sells is really defining for the industry. It will b an interesting generation now that self publishing is easy and science fiction is defining itself….
This is such a great video!! How did you end up liking Dune? I read it before the movie too and wasn’t a big fan. If you haven’t read book 2 I suggest reading it as it’s basically the final part of the story (it really should have been part of book 1 imo). Messiah was much more what I was expecting from Dune itself.
Hey! Dune was good- but for me it wasnt in my top 10. I havent read messiah! I heard it gets weird and he turns into a worm or something…. But if u think it makes more sense, maybe i will give it a go. And thanks for watching!!
Not a criticism but PERHAPS SF before the Eighties is best split up by the Magazines it was published in, they all definitely had their own flavours and favourite Authors…Before the 1920’s I don’t consider anything SF but Gothic or Mystery and most often ‘spiritual’ trappings rather than Science…good channel.
Thank you! i think I could have cut it many different ways, although to be fair, I never got to experience the magazine side of scifi. So i wouldnt know which authors belonged to which (although I could easily lookit up probably!) thank tou for your insight.
So much of “classic SF” was really a literature of short stories. Sure there were novels, even good ones, but too many of them are just fix up collections of short stories stitched together with some additional narrative, or they are padded out to increase the page count. IMO, if you really want to experience the best of classic SF you need to read the short stories.
You make a good point…. But at this time in my scifi journey, i hadnt discovered that yet :) i am hoping to do something like that soon, although I am overwhelmed with how many there are and trying to get ahold of them is also difficult….
Leibowitz - monks not Jesuits, but Order of St Leibowitz. The Jesuit you may be thinking of is Hoyt in Hyperion. Or perhaps the central character of Blish’s A Case of Conscience.
Regarding H.G. Wells, try "First Men in the Moon." I have ready it twice and liked it. There is a movie which is good, but a little cheesy at times. For Ursula K. LeGuin read "The Left Hand of Darkness." Another author to try is Frederick Pohl. "Man Plus" is good.
Thanks for a great video! I love me some Bradbury, but for some reason the Martian Cronicles didn't really click with me. I love both The Ilustrated Man and The October Country - these are more just short story collections (although TIM has a cute little frame story which I rather like). Dick is very much hit or miss. I liked Androids... a lot! As well as Ubik. Eye In The Sky was a mess. I haven't read others by him.
Also, I have to say I do not share your experience of The Disposessed. I found it quite easy and straightforward to read. There is a lot of exploration of ideas, and as you say yourself, that exploration is not simple - she explores good and bad about them, and even explores how there can be traps and pitfalls in the ideas that she otherwise supports, so I guess it could be difficult to follow in that sense, but I found that it flowed quite nicely and was very digestible.
Fair enough! I'm glad to hear I wasn't the only one with that experience. I haven't read Ubik but Jonathan from words in time recommends it highly. I will have to give it a try.
could be because I was listening to the audiobook then switched to text -- sometimes that is what causes it not to flow. But hey everyone has different experience.
I consider Bradbury's "A Miracle of Rare Device" to be one of the most beautiful short stories ever written. And his use of language is incredibly poetic.
Like your view of The Man In the High Castle, I have always felt the same way about Do Androids...? Why is it such a classic, what actually happens in it? Give me Blade Runner any day.
I love how she keeps saying she decided to read "one of their lesser known works" and then picks up one of their most well known, iconic works. I do agree Philip K. Dick is one of the most overrated authors in sci fi, and the adaptations of his stories are invariably better than the originals.
A few comments. I was born in 1954 and started reading SF in 1966 before my 12th birthday. My first novel was Heinlein’s Tunnel in the Sky. I loved it and spent the next few years reading all the Heinlein’s juvenile novels (precursor to Young Adult?), the novels of Asimov and Clarke. I have had difficulty rereading their novels as an adult. I have learnt that all of them were flawed. Maybe I could overlook those failings if I had not placed them on such a high pedestal. Also, as an adult I have come to realise that Asimov is not a great writer. Heinlein’s novels were better but his later novels fell into a narcissistic solipsistic spiral that I felt somewhat icky. Clarke most probably the best of the three. But to be honest here were better SF authors in the 50s. Bester for instance. Thinking of Bradbury. There were many fix up novels in the 50s and 60s, e.g. Clifford D Simak’s City and Theodore Sturgeon’s More than Human both I would rank above The Martian Chronicles.
This list is invaluable! Especially thank you for sharing ur experience-- i will have to update this list again at some point. Also i just bought Way Station from simak! So im trying
Heinlein - the only novel of his I've really enjoyed was The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. If any scifi story needs a decent movie adaptation, it's this one. Although there is the risk of a Hollywood happy ending if it is filmed. The other Heinlein works I've tried have disappointed. I've always felt there is an implicit sense of smugness in his work. Also he isn't nearly as funny as he thinks he is - most of the humour being Dad Joke level. Childhood's End is pretty bleak although the analogy with colonialism is on the nose. A more accessible introduction to Clarke is perhaps either Rendezvous with Rama, or City and the stars. I'm glad Mary Shelley made it on the list. Not only is Frankenstein a solid novel, it's all the more amazing that she was 19 when she wrote it. H G Wells - try the Time Machine. Much better than the sanitised Hollywood movie. I'm really surprised that The Forever War and Brave New World didn't make the list.
I have forever war on my TBR but I didnt get to it…. Special content coming soon for brave new world- but both good options. I would have liked to do way more but I haf to end the video somewhere!
The most popular book of P.K. Dick's, besides "Do androids dream of electric sheep", is "Ubik". So I believe your choice was not the best. And for Ursula K. Le Guin, I consider her best book is "The left hand of darkness". I didn't like the Dispossessed at all!
Ursula K. Le Guin DID NOT invent the YA sf novel, try Andre Norton, who was prolific during the fifties and sixties. I grew up on her, always fun, but never bleak.
I had a similar experience with Philip K Dick when I read the Valis trilogy! I enjoyed the setup in the first book, appre iated the "trippyness" of the second book and was completely disappointed by the (lack of) finalization in the third book. Wasted potential
You are one of those reviewers (especially women) that have to like the protagonist to like and/or appreciate the work. But there is an old saying: Art doesn’t come to you. You have to go to art. I actually prefer a story more if the protagonist is a deeply flawed individual who gets his comeuppance in the end. I haven’t read Neuromancer, but it’s my understanding that Case got what he wanted in the end but he still wasn’t happy. So in a way that was his comeuppance.
The thing about book reviews They are opinions, your opinions You shouldn't state your opinions as facts All that does is make it hard to respect your feelings on the book your going on about Opinions are like ass holes everybody has one (and they all stink) But they are also beautiful and should be respected So think on that next time your gonna trash on someone's opinions (feelings) OK maybe not the A hole analogy
I was not aware I was stating things like facts. I agree all reviews are only opinions, and I am most definitely not an expert, nor claim to be. It would b more helpful if you give specific example why this crossed your mind or why you were rubbed the wrong way so I can be sure to improve in future. Thanks for letting me know!
Neuromancer is one of my favorite books and I also really love Ursula K. Le Guin but... I just finished reading Kindred and was very disappointed at how badly written it is with all those very unbelievable, flat dialogues so I wonder if it will be the same with other books by her.
Philip k dick always mess up his books, that is part of the fun. He wrote many great books but they all are influenced by him taking drugs makes him loose the line. But still extremely exciting books that could have been even better without drugs
It's just "Foundation"... no THE in the title... otherwise I enjoyed the video... (It just seems odd that a show about books would get the title of the book wrong... every time you mentioned it.)
I read once that PKD intended to write a sequel or series after The Man in the High Castle, but couldn't get back into a mindset to write about Nazis... he was pretty fragile mentally with all the drugs.
I'd like to recommend an author in case you may not have read her works. Julian May. Her Saga of the Pliocene Exile, which includes The Many-Coloured Land, The Golden Torc, The Non-Born King, and The Adversary is an incredible tale, and ties in with her Galactic Mileau trilogy that includes Jack the Bodyless, Magnificat, and Diamond Mask, with another book called Intervention tying the two series together. I think you'll be fascinated by it...😏👌🏻 Also, although he was more an author of what I call fantastic fiction rather than science fiction (not surprising considering his pulp fiction roots), Edgar Rice Burroughs (of Tarzan fame) wrote some stellar books considered classic science fiction I'd recommend you explore. They seem a bit like the cheesy space opera serials of the time, but are so much more...😉
i totally agree with you on HG wells. my god what a boring writing style he had!! I've DNF two of his books, the first one being the war of worlds. i did not like it at all, it seems like he had great ideas but the execution was lacking. great video btw!
"I want to avoid Asimov's most famous works." Then chooses his most famous work. And proceeds to butcher the description of the book. Rough start. P.S. Do not watch the Apple TV series. It is nothing like the books. Utter crap.
Ah. That is disappointing (both things). I had mistakenly thought I, Robot was his most famous work and shockingly hadnt heard of foundation at the time, but I understand I hadnt done the best homework on it.
Ok, your opinion of Gibson's book didn't make me like you less at all. But the fact that you enjoyed Hyperion while you did not like Neuromancer ... kinda did. lol jokes aside, I get it. Neuromancer is hard to get into, and his writing style seems almost drug induced. Tons of weird 80's Canadian slang, made up words, words we use differently today, references to things, concepts and people with no explanation and a super weird prose that feels like it was written to make stuff difficult to read. But Case isn't really supposed to have any redeeming qualities.. the whole point is that it's just a bunch of low life's in a low life, high tech world getting entangled in something much bigger than them, manipulated by an AI. Also, Case does not at any point kick any ass. He's not even that great of a console Cowboy. He's learned from the best but is not even close to their skill (like his mentor McKoy Pauley / Dixie Flatline who's an actual legend). The guy is an upper mid tier cyber criminal. All the ass kicking is actually done by Molly Millions, the razor girl (just writing this stuff down makes me smile at how ridiculous it is). At best, Case kinda checks in on her livestream now and then to offer moral support lol. Case in fact, is quite a horrible person. When we meet Case he's a junky and a murderer. He found this really nice girl at the arcade .. and he just dragged her as deep as they could go, then left her there. He turned her into a junky and then he just kinda half ghosted her. She is so desperate for his attention it leads to her end. Honestly it's also .. just cyberpunk. Sometimes it really is like Mike Pondsmith says.. "style over substance". And I think it kinda helped that I ate very strong edibles while reading through neuromancer Hyperion sucks and is super derivative. There isn't a single original idea. The prose made me want to burn forests so the poor trees have a better purpose than ending up as Dan's books. I mean for the love of Lapis Lazuli, I can't stand the guy's writing style. Every sky is lapis. Hyperion's sky is lapis AND has GREEN in it, and things are vivid from far, but hazy and pastel from close up.. bro WHAT? It drove me mad every time there was a scene on Hyperion. Much of the story is on that planet! What kind of color is Lapis for a day time sky ffs. At least with the first book, it was actually still kinda interesting. I loved the Canterbury Tales thing with the characters. Liked the stories somewhat, although again, most felt very derivative, like bad copies of other authors worlds. styles or genres. Like he tried to put every genre in there. Also, he would use different words for established sci fi terminology ... "cyberpukes" instead of cyberpunk. (that alone makes me hope his pillows are warm and clammy for the rest of his life) But it would have been ok .. it would have been a mediocre book, if it stayed with book one SPOILERS In book 2 we find out the outers or whatever they were called, are a bunch of space furries and humanoid insects that are actually "the good guys." And the answer for everything .. all your questions .. well it was LOVE all along. And Weintraub "discovers" that it's not God that is testing Abraham, it's Abraham that is testing God. It's such a misunderstanding of Abrahamic scripture, it's ridiculous. No self respecting Jew would argue such a thing lol. The whole thing with Rachel Weintraub and Kassad the Palestinian with a German name for some reason is commentary on Israel/Palestine. At the end every planet is ok and thriving, except the Muslim planets which are either blown up in "nuclear jihad's" or in absolute chaos. It's also obvious when he uses a thesaurus .. because he'll use the same obscure word 4 or 5 times in a row back to back in like 3 to 5 pages. And then he'll never ever use that word again. How does the muscle lady not recognize Rachel the second time she sees her? Why would the AI god give a f about fighting your human "love" powered trinity god fairly or whatever? Rachel's future looks like the teletubbies world and I just couldn't stop imagining them flying around in teletubby outfits after that. Nothing about anything makes sense. Nothing was truly answered. But it's been too long for me to go in depth about the issues I have with it, all the plot holes etc. But you get the drift. Did I tell you about the fact that at the end of both Hyperion books the main characters come together and sing a song. They sing "somewhere over the rainbow" in the second book.. it made me almost throw my ereader against a wall.
I appreciate the depth you considered this book. I have only read it once and while I will also say the keates worship was rather annoying, the lasting impressions of the book for me were the characters and their struggles. The priest struggling with faith, the fathers ironic and painful experience of watching his child aging backward, etc… (not too many spoilers). Its these juxtapositions, the rich characters and the emotions these evoked from me that made me love it. While fall isnt my favorite and i would have made other plot choices, it didnt dimish the hold the characters had on me. And the mystery of the time tombs and shrike were also very well done. the vibe of unknown/unknowable dan achieves with the shrike is really something- esp in a world where everything is so dependent on science and technology and knowable factual things. Its a breath of wonder and fear and awe. Not alot of books achieve that for me. But i do need to finish the cantos and see if the characters hold up or not. Ill have to reread with your critiques in mind.
@@secretsauceofstorycraft So I wanted to refresh my memory about all the things I hated about this book. Because there are soo many plotholes etc but it's been a while since I've read it.. Never bothered with goodreads etc, instead I tend to write long ranty comments as you might have noticed .. Anyway decided to look for my comments under reviews to refresh my memory. Couldn't find the commments at all (I guess they hit youtube censorship due to no no words). Instead I came across library ladder in the comments of another youtuber, praising and raving on about hyperion :( I feel like you guys are all suffering from a collective form of book stockholm syndrome. Or Dan Simmons is secretly the one that founded the Sci Fi alliance and you guys are in a conspiracy with him. Anyway, don't mind the rants. Thanks for all the great content and for interacting with your viewers (now you still can)... this seems like one of the channels that I write "wow I used to follow this girl when she had 1.5k followers" in the comments, when you're getting a million views. Ps. I should probably just make a goodreads account already lol
Ursula K. Le Guin DID NOT invent the YA sf novel, try Andre Norton, who was prolific during the fifties and sixties. I grew up on her, always fun, but never bleak.
I grew up on Anne McCaffrey, she was one of my mum's favourite authors so many of her books were around the house. If you're looking for books that focus on making you think, hard SF or in depth examination of morality etc. then she's largely not going to give you that. What she was great at was telling extremely enjoyable stories with interesting characters, and there are so many tropes and ideas she invented or made popular that have since become staples of both the SF and fantasy genres. She mostly wrote space opera and particularly planetary romance (not part of romance if you're unaware!) which is a genre I wish would come back in to fashion
It is! But slowly… and i agree. I hope to read more of her work soon. I think character heavy books and great storytelling help bring readers to scifi….
@@secretsauceofstorycraft @secretsauceofstorycraft McCaffrey's Dinosaur Planet/ Planet Pirates series is great, and she co-authors somr of the series with Elizabeth Moon and Jody Lynn Nye. Her Brainship books are very good. I love the Crystal Singer and Powers That Be for their concepts, but she is most famous for her Pern novels.
Totally agree with you regarding Speaker for the Dead. One of my favorites!
Wonderful finding other folks who love it too!
I grew up in the 1950s and discovered SciFi by way of short story collections I found in the library. In those days, there weren't many readers of SciFi and publishers always brought out hardback editions which were expensive to produce. As a result, the authors of the 50s wrote mainly short stories which were published in SciFi and fantasy magazines, which were inexpensive to publish. As a result, most of the best SciFi in the 50s was in the form of short stories. Asimov, Heinlein, Bradbury and others were the most successful writers, but even they couldn't make a living just writing. You should really try to find some collections. In particular, look for Asimov's story titled "The Last Question", one of the most mind-blowing short stories ever written. I also recommend Heinlein's novel "Stranger in a Strange Land" and Theodore Sturgeon's "More than Human" - two novels which deal brilliantly with truly big ideas. He is generally considered the inspiration for many of the great writers of the 50s and 60s. And he was much better than most of them at making his characters convincing and complex.
By the way, Bradbury was mainly a short story author - one of the most popular writers of the time even outside the Sci-Fi and fantasy community. The Martian Chronicles is actually a series of short stories tied together with a bit of narrative, which may be why you liked some parts of it more than others.
I agree with you that Card's "Speaker for the Dead" is much better than "Ender's Game". You should know that originally, Card wrote it as a stand-alone novel whose main character wasn't Ender, but then realized that changing him to Ender would add depth to the story.
You should also check out Philip K Dick's short story "We Can Remember it for you Wholesale" (which was the inspiration for the film "Total Recall"). His ability to make the reader feel that reality maybe isn't real is amazing.
The Martian chronicles being a collection of short stories rather than a novel makes a TON of sense, and I think this would have changed the way I approached it and enjoyed it.
I am a big advocate of short fiction and hope to feature more of it on my channel so I very much appreciate your recommendations and would welcome more! I would love to do them justice if I can.
Check out Senna Henderson's short stories about The People. They are quite different in subject matter and style than anything else written in that period. They were collected into one volume called Ingathering in 1995.
Great recommendation on More than Human. It was terrific. Also I love both Enders Game and Speaker, and agree with you, I prefer Speaker.
Orphans of the Sky is an early work. The Past Thru Tomorrow might be Heinlein's most accessible work- an anthology of his connected short stories. It's long, but mostly shorter pieces.
Will have to try it!
Another endorsement here for The Past Through Tomorrow. It’s the collected stories of Heinlein’s “future history” series, though all the stories are stand alone. That anthology is really the only Heinlein you ever need read. IMO it’s his best work. His novels, from Stranger In a Strange Land to his last, To Sail Beyond the Sunset, with few exceptions, grow increasingly more self indulgent and creepy. That last novel is perhaps the most self indulgent, bilious collection of tripe ever put between two covers.
Great video! Heinlein's work is all over the place because his political views changed during his writing career. At one point early on Isaac Asimov referred to Heinlein as "a flaming liberal." Later on he was considered to be conservative, and then a Libertarian. In fact many consider him to be the father of libertarianism ("The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" as an example). Asimov's views, on the other hand, never changed. My favorite Fantasy author is Trudi Canavan, who wrote the Black Magician Trilogy (and prequel), although I also really like the Xanth series by Piers Anthony.
Heinlein wasn't dumb enough to be a libertarian. It is just that libertarians have delusions of intellectual adequacy that leads them tu glom onto Heinlein because of TANSTAAFL.
I was born in 1950 and began reading proper SF about 1960, so most of what you're talking about I read on publication. You got it.
Disagree with you here and there and love to sit down and have a chat but you got it! 'Cave' of course IS Plato and a couple of other slips but I think you're achieving exactly the perspective you set out for. Keep it up. Will subscribe.
Would LOVE to chat about books anytime. And disagreements are the fun part- without different perspectives scifi wouldnt be so amazing!
I just finished Childhood's End and it was fantastic. I scoured your videos and your description of it here made me read it. Wow, it was a great book. Thanks so much for doing these videos. Without you and Jonathan I think I would be reading books I didn't like and would eventually give up. For example, if I read too many books like Shadow of the Torturer, I would give up reading lol. Thanks Whitney
Anytime!! And again, I’m so glad you found it! More to come!
Thank you for the video! Young people into SF is always great and the multitude of concepts and ideas you will find there are very important. I started reading SF at 9 years. "Miss Pickrel Goes To Mars", 🙂 58 years ago.
I read (and have, plus a lot more) most of the Golden Age of SF - 1939 to approximately 1950 - mostly created by the editor of Astounding magazine, John W. Campbell Jr., whose goal was to educate the average 14 year old American youth. The beginning of The Golden Age is usually considered the July, 1939 publication of "Black Destroyer" by A. E. Van Vogt. Van Vogt went on to publish many completely new concepts in SF, particularly in short stories and his very influential novels; Slan, The Weapon Shops of Isher, The World Of Null-A, The Voyage Of The Space Beagle, many more.
I subscribed to Analog, Galaxy, Worlds of If, then Asimov's for a 30 year span. I learned a lot, from the hundreds of editorials, SF in general and the fan discussion letters!
As I recall, most of the Fathers you chose, besides being great, considered Jules Verne, HG Wells particularly and Hugo Gernsback The Fathers of SF. As far as Mothers go, let's not forget C. L. Moore, Kate Wilhelm and E. Mayne Hull, etc..
RAH was not really racist or sexist, that seems to be presented by some who dislike a few of his characters political thoughts. Strong willed and intelligent females appear in a multitude of his works. "Delilah And The Space Rigger", "The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag" - Wow, "Citizen Of The Galaxy", "The Rolling Stones", "Have Spacesuit Will Travel" - a plethora of strong females, "The Man Who Sold The Moon, Requiem" stories - Harriman's wife is a very strong infuence, despite her short appearances.
If you liked "The Dispossessd" you may like "Anarchaos" by Donald Westlake. Which I place with "1984", "Animal Farm", "Brave New World", and "The Monitors" and "A Plague Of Demons" by Keith Laumer. So much to read and learn from! I would place the absolute end of the Golden Age in 1972, with Keith Laumer's stroke. The "New Wave" began in the early 1950s. C. M. Kornbluth and Frederik Pohl were among those authors. If you have never read "The Cosmic Expense Account" short by Kornbluth, it is certainly worth it!
Black Destroyer, free online
www.prosperosisle.org/spip.php?article324
I have fallen in love with short fiction and am jealous you lived the golden age. I would love to be able to redo this project in a year with more knowledge and more exposure.
Will write a few of these down and see if i can find from my local used bookstore- thats always the trick. Ive been looki g for gateway by F Pohl for awhile but i might just have to buy it new….
So much to read!
I would add Phillip Jose Farmer, Cordwainer Smith, Joe Haldeman, and (gotta do it) D.C. Fontana. Great Video and discussions btw. 👍
Your videos are really high quality. It's clear the work you put into them. I hope your subscriber count grows commensurate to this. Always an interesting watch, thanks.
Thank you! Appreciate it!
You're bringing a fresh perspective to science fiction classics. I love it!
Glad you enjoy it!
I'm yet to read Orphans in the sky but I love Nonstop by Brian Aldiss with exactly same premise i.e.generational ship where people don't know they're on one.
Will have to see if i can rustle that one up- havent heard of it but sounds good!
@Secret Sauce of Storycraft So I just finished Orphans and for me Nonstop wins by a mile. Way better characterisation, emotions, believability, development, twist. Orphans are original but that's it for me.
Very interesting video. A lot of stuff I had not heard of even though I have been reading sci-fi for 50+years. For classics I would have included Gordon R Dickson, James White, Joseph Green, Hal Clement amongst others. Keep up the good work and thanks.
Thanks for dropping those names, i will check those out. I love connecting with the different perspectives for more books to read. Let me know any other suggestions.
I am surprised that you didn't include Jules Verne in your 1800 series. His work may also be considered hard sci fi, in that he is detailed in how things work.
I do think you misunderstood The Martian Chronicles. In some ways it is analogy to the opening of the Western parts of what is now the U.S. even down to the fate of the Martians. Of course the ending is very different than what occurred in the West. It was very chilling.
The dedication to Childhoods End was simply that Clarke no longer believed that humans could change in the way he described. After the book he hosted a show that convinced him that anyone claiming such abilities were all con artists.
I haven't personally read Jules Verne although I could have included him. Several other commenters mentioned martian chronicles was actually multiple short stories put together for a novel- something I wish had been made clear to me from the beginning.
Great video! For myself, Stranger in a Strange Land is one of the best books ever written.
Maybe one day i’ll give it another chance
@@secretsauceofstorycraftHis best book in my opinion is The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, and the series around it is fabulous.
However, Stranger in a Strange Land is a great book, it's not his best in my view.
As far as Clarke goes, you picked probably my favorite of his stories. If you feel like trying another, I would recommend "Rendezvous With Rama", which gives a real sense of wonder. Just don't subject yourself to any of the sequels. They are reads to survive, not enjoy.
I actually just bought the Rama book! He is SO good at sense of wonder scifi. Bummer about the sequels tho. (But thanks for the warning.. and for watching)
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Thanks for the reply! Just found your channel amongst the multitude of "bookTubers" and subscribed. As far as the Rama series goes, Clarke lent his name to a few of the immediate sequels, and that's about it. I believe he did a general outline for the second book, but other than that, had nothing to do with the rest of the series.
@@sleestack13 at least it doesnt reflect on him other than loose association. I’ll have to get on this book soon! (My TBR is already overfull so Ill make sure its near top for next few months)
I consider Asimov's prose really grey. It tells the story but does not knock you out with the beauty of the writing. If you like Asimov's robot stories, try the Caliban trilogy by Roger McBRide Allen. Really great handling of the three laws, and colorful, fun writing.
Excellent suggestion- i will go check it out.
@@secretsauceofstorycraft I really enjoy RMA's books, and the authorized by the Asimov estate Caliban novels are very worth reading!
Judging by his memoirs, he was aware and kinda proud of it. He described his style as clean, colourless window through which you can clearly see and artistic styles as colourfull windows of cathedrals. And then he pointed out that modern table glass is big achievement of modern age :) At least that's what I recall. In any case, his memoirs "I, Asimov" are great and interesting read. It covers a lot of history of sci-fi since he is part of it. Very readable, small chapters by topic. His style fits this kind of book extremely well. It made me love classic scifi with all its flaws.
Give the 1800s one more shot with Jules Verne, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea. The sequel The Mysterious Island. The stand alone Journey to the Center of the Earth. All of these are good reads. They capture the exploration era of the 1800s when something new and exiting could be just beyond where we've gone before.
🔥 thank you! I will have to try it
@secretsauceofstorycraft 20,000 Leagues and Mysterious Island (the very unknown sequel) are more "realistic". Journey to the Center of the Earth is more "campy" but Vernes descriptions are so realistic.
I never read much Heinlein, but "Starship Troopers" was the one I liked the most. "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?" is one of Dick's most famous if not his most famous novel, although it is brilliant. "The Man in the High Castle" is also brilliant. Like other of his SF, it doesn't provide simple answers. I think it's more interesting for having a mysterious ending rather than a dull, absolutely concrete one. Another novel of his that I think is among his best, is "Galactic Pot-Healer". It's quite unlike the other two novels, but that's what makes it great. I didn't like "Fahrenheit 451" so much, but I thought that "The Martian Chronicles" was excellent. It does have a definite ending.
I've read two of Octavia Butler's novels, but haven't been so impressed yet. Despite this, I think she's a very good author though. Ursula LeGuin is great. I liked "The Dispossessed", although it's very many years since I read it, but I preferred "The Left Hand of Darkness". I really didn't like "The Handmaid's Tale", it was really dull. Another author that I thought you might have included on your list of female SF authors, is Alice Sheldon [James Tiptree Jr.], who has exerted an important influence over the genre, even though much of her writing hasn't appealed to me. Another novel I liked by a female writer, is "Ice" by Anna Kavan, although she never actually wrote for the genre, and died soon after writing it. It's great though.
I like "Frankenstein", it is the seminal SF novel, as you say. Brian Aldiss called her the mother of science fiction. I read Wells "War of the Worlds" and "The Time machine", but they didn't appeal much. I think as you said, it was that "voice" of his. Another later great SF author who wrote outside of the genre, during the era of the pulp magazines, was Olaf Stapledon. I particularly liked his "Star Maker".
"Dune" I found to be long and tedious. I failed to know what it was about. I didn't like "Neuromancer" much, a better novel that I think you'd call Cyberpunk, is Bruce Sterling's "The Artificial Kid". I agree with you about "A Canticle for Leibowitz". "Nineteen Eighty-Four" is a great novel and SF novel. I've just read Orwell's very interesting non-fiction book, "Why I write".
A very good video.🤩
Thank you! Many mnay people have mentioned star maker, by olaf and I need to get my hands on a copy. It’s interesting to me how many classics do hold up over time and how many really dont….
Stapledon's "Last and First Men" is very good too, but I couldn't read "Sirius". It was very dull. To be a classic, it has to have had quality and be original to start with. I think all those you liked were. @@secretsauceofstorycraft
Kindred was a truly amazing book. Absolute literature.
The thing with the Man in the High Castle is that the alternate history aspect is secondary and not really that important, the setting could be anywhere but it's just used to explore ideas of historicity, how things could have unfolded differently had different choices been made or chance played out slightly differently (if FDR's assassin hadn't missed is the specific example in the book). The Nazis winning WW2 thing is just used as a basis to raise those questions, it's not meant to be an alternate-history thriller which is why so many are disappointed by it especially if they've come from the TV show. I personally think the book is great and I was pondering for ages after finishing it but hey.
To each his own, i understand what u mean, but such a loss of potential was hard to see.
I see someone else pointed out that it's just 'Foundation'. Was surprised that you didn't finish the trilogy. I would recommed that you should; the last two are relatively short and are easy reads, and the three tell a complete story. The trilogy is considered one of "the" science fiction classics.
Also, if you wanted to try Heinlein again I would recommend The Door Into Summer. An easy read and one of my favorites.
Thanks for the tip! I recently just finished foundation & empire and second foundation -- honestly they were fantastic!!! One of my all time favorite series. I have rest of series on order!
Will check into more Heinlein, i have read a few more by him and have enjoyed. I will look into getting a copy of The Door Into Summer!!
This video was interesting and entertaining. I don't generally watch videos this long and I made it to the end of this one. I like your honesty and candor about many very well known books. I'm just really beginning my reading journey so I don't want to get bogged down in these big name books if they're no good. I'm thinking I have similar taste to yours as I loved the Hyperion series. Thanks for such a thorough video.
Minor correction 2001 A Space Odyssey was written simultaneously with the film and they influenced each other.
PS I'd like to recommend Rendezvous with Rama and almost everything by Michael Crichton!
I bought rama and its on my TBR for sure! He really impressed me with childhood’s end and i cant wait to read rama.
Heinlein very often spends time on the relationship between the individual and the State. Just because a character is racist doesn't men that Heinlein is. He is often accused of not writing women enough, and when he does write women he's accused of writing women really badly. But he also writes incredibly strong women who his male characters understand they could never surpass.
He takes on being trans in an important short story (watch the movie Predestination before reading the short story), and in the book I Will Fear No Evil.
Any race can provide an evil character for Heinlein. Typically it's a human that acts far worse than any alien.
Citizen of the Galaxy is another juvenile you might like. Or also Podkayne of Mars.
👍🏻
The movie Minority Report is based on a Philip K. Dick novella called The Minority Report. I’d say that was a better movie than Blade Runner, and it had a much bigger box office. So I’d say then that that was Dick’s most famous work.
Minority report was incredible! Lots of PKD’s works made for great watching!! But its thru someone else’s interpretation rather than his own words…. As for his most famous work… probably up for debate but u make a good point
Great video. Love your choices and your honest reviews.
'The Ship Who Sang' & 'The Dispossessed' nice to see them in your choices - also for Octavia Butler - how about 'Dawn' (first in a series)
Hadnt read it at the time… but i do have an octavia butler video coming….
Nice selection of choices. It's always difficult. Personally I would have added Jack Vance too. Tschai and the Devil Princes are great 😊
Jack vance would have been a good choice! I will need to redo this in another year or so :)
Authors very much worth reading but lesser known Henry Kuttner and Eric Frank Russel.
Will add to my tbr!! Thank you! Just added “wasp”
Beautiful & well read,the world needs more women like you. ♥️
Thank you!
It's funny hearing that childhood's end is lesser known
Correct. Many think that it's his best novel.
I completely agree on The Man in the High Castle being a big disappointment. Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep is much better.
I would also throw in one of the OGs of time travel - either Wells' The Time Machine or Asimov's The End of Eternity - to give people perspective on where so many time travel fundamentals and tropes stem from.
Also, fun fact: Before Kubrick made 2001: A Space Odyssey he actually really wanted to adapt Childhood's End, but the rights were already tied up so he and Clarke worked together to write an original story inspired by Clarke's The Sentinel.
Wow! Thats really cool. I had no idea!
I did read end of eternity but it was after the filming of this. Honestly, I wish I read the Time Machine instead of Invisible Man….
If you like alternative history where the allies lost, check out Fatherland by Robert Harris
Ooh! Ive not heard of it!! Thank you.
I would have liked to see Andre Norton, the Grand Dame of Science Fiction, make the list. Beastmaster, Sargasso of Space, Daybreak 2250 AD
Norton is equal to any legend...🤙🏻
I also wanted to get to her but didnt by time I made the video…. I will have to add her when I do it again!!
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Her Witch World books, Trillium series, and the Halfblood Chronicles are some of the greatest, along with so many other works...🤙🏻😋
@@TheGoofyBuddhaYes, Andre Norton unfortunately always seems to be forgotten whenever the lists are drawn up
Yeah, if you're going to credit anyone with "inventing" YA Science Fiction, it would have to be either Andre Norton or Heinlein, with his "Juveniles".
I had no idea LeGuin invented YA. It's funny you found The Dispossessed to be so dense when Earthsea is written to literally not be dense. I thought The Dispossessed was phenomenal.
The first Ray Bradbury I ever read was a short story, All Summer In a Day" I think I was in 4th grade grammar school. Eerie...
I just reread that story-- it has stayed with me for years!!! Thanks for bringing it up.
Plato's allegory of the cave, not Aristotle...
I need to fix this!
Great video! I would love to hear your thoughts on the sci-if of the 1980’s. One of my favourite authors is CJ Cherryh. Nobody talks about her these days 😢
I have her foriegner on my TBR! I hope to love it.
Probably my favorite author, especially Cyteen. I love her Alliance-Union novels, and my first exposure to her was her Morgaine novels.
@@secretsauceofstorycraft Check out Downbelow Station and Cyteen if you get a chance.
Always liked the Chanur series.
Asimov if my most favorite! He was also a great college textbooks author. The foundation series is my least favorite of Asimov. Love Heilein especially the weird ones. GROK!!!
You ever notice how similar the plot of Fahrenheit 451 is to the plot of Logan's Run?
1) In the future it's illegal to own books (live past 30)
2) Montag (Logan) is a fireman (sandman) who enforces the law by burning books ('retiring' runners)
3) But when Montag is caught with a book (Logan's life clock is accelerated) he decides to go on the run from his colleagues.
4) He gets scooped up by the Resistance and eventually brings down the system that he once believed in.
Now that I think about it, Minority Report is pretty much the same. Can anyone think of where the this plot first came from?
Wow! This is very astute. You are right. I will ask around and go through the internet to see what I can find.
H.G. Wells is genius, you might think all the interessting things you can do with invisibilty is cool, but Wells concludes justly that its a problem, because you are no longer seen, you are no longer part of human society. Eventually all the cool stuff isnt worth it. Therefore the book focuses on 'curing' invisibility. Wells thought things through.
Interesting perspective…
Prime's Man in the High Castle has been masterfully adapted in my opinion, as I agree that Dick screwed it up a bit, probably as his high turned into an hangover, he ran out of ideas and just said "fk it"! 😅
Edit: Neuromancer. Oh man, seriously, other than sci-fi anime, I don't think there's anything else that influenced my idea of the future, and to a lesser extent my life, more than Gibson and his own "visuals" of the future, if it makes any sense. Maybe you need to read his other works to appreciate him a little more, and watch his interviews, he's extremely humble and down to earth for someone that writes in such a style.
1984: perfectly said 👍🏻🖤
Hahaha 🤣
Hi! Long time Sci-Fi (and others) reader here! "Childhood's end" and "A canticle for Leibowitz" are two of my all time favourites. If you allow me the correction: "The allegory of the cave" is by Plato, not by Aristotle!
Oh my goodness you are right!!! Its plato!?!? I will have to put words on there to correct that! Thank you!
@@secretsauceofstorycraft You' re welcome!
Lol I laughed so hard at the HG WELLS part
😜 thanks 🔥
I am a bit sad that you did not include in the Women of Classic Science Fiction the author C.J. Cherryh. She won the Hugo for Downbelow Station in 1981. She is still writing now, but has been publishing since the mid 70's. Chops for including McCaffrey, though! She is well known for helping female authors get a break in the business, a great example of that is Elizabeth Moon.
My personal favorite of CJ (Carolyn Janice Cherry) Cherryh is Cyteen, which won the Hugo and Locus awards in 1988. She is really great about world building, and this particular one is low on action, high on world building and focuses on cloning, and the life of a very unusual clone.
I honestly hadnt heard of this author until recently. I am glad you recommended one to start with because her booklist is overwhelming! I will add her to my tbr as well as her foreigner series (seems very popular)
@@secretsauceofstorycraft She is extremely prolific. Rule of thumb is "Read the Hugo winners!" Cyteen is a thick book, and more psychology, intrigue and worldbuilding than anything else. Downbelow Station gives you more viewpoints with an alien world and an interesting alien species, along with a "Slow Motion" space war, and it focuses more on how it impacts people rather than the battle itself. Not a space opera, but most of it is set on a space station. Oh and I forgot to mention, she is one of the 14 living authors with the title Grand Master from the SFWA.
Really, really great video!!!
I started reading SF in 4th grade. In a Catholic elementary school run by nitwit nuns who NEVER taught science. It was BORING! I actually do not know how I would have gotten through grade school without SF. Maybe I could have murdered a nun. LOL
Anyway, my first SF book was Star Surgeon by Alan E Nourse. The movie title of Blade Runner came from another Nourse book. I read Orphans of the Sky and Door into Summer in grammar school. I am convinced that the age at which a child reads a book and encounters ideas can have profound effects on their thinking. I decided that I was an agnostic in 7th grade.
I do not understand why people think Childhood's End is so great. I read A Fall of Moondust by Arthur C Clarke in 7th grade and thought it was better. It is a harder SF story and I am one of those elitists who does not regard Star Wars as science fiction at all. I can tolerate calling it Space Fantasy, science fantasy is an oxymoron.
The Dispossessed by Ursula K Le Guin is a social dichotomy story and as you say it has no resolution. A more interesting but not as well written tale is Voyage from Yesteryear by James P Hogan. I would bet that Hogan knew more about technology and economics than Le Guin.
Science fiction is kind of an area where science and literature clash/crash/meld/raise a stink. The Two Cultures essay by C P Snow provides a culturally interesting perspective.
Kurt Vonnegut said that being classified as a science fiction writer was like being put into a drawer being used as a urinal. I presume that it is not quite that bad today.
Wow! What a story! I guess I am finding scifi classics so late…., but at least I got here. I can’t imagine being crapped on for writing scifi…
You didn't mention
There Will Come Soft Rains
from Martian Chronicles. It is The must read story in MC.
John W Campbell should be included in any discussion of founders of modern Scifi . While not a prolific author he was the publisher/editor who shaped most of the authors you mentioned in your video.
I actually dont know much about him other than the award that used to be named after him. Thanks for bringing this to my attention
@@secretsauceofstorycraft I beliee he was the main force behind astounding stories magazine that was popular during the golden age of scifi.
Both Martian Chronicles and a Canticle for Liebowitz were made from a number of short stories, previously published in Magazines (as was the Asimov I believe) and I think that explains the jarring between sections. The Magazines have mostly gone, and certainly aren’t the huge market they were…I think that now the influence of Fantasy has induced a LOT of bloat and an unhealthy revival of the 18th Century fashion for the 3 Volume Novel…interesting to hear a younger persons view on Classic SF!
You might b right on on the jarring sections. And its also interesting to see how the trends woth publishers and what they say sells is really defining for the industry. It will b an interesting generation now that self publishing is easy and science fiction is defining itself….
This is such a great video!! How did you end up liking Dune? I read it before the movie too and wasn’t a big fan. If you haven’t read book 2 I suggest reading it as it’s basically the final part of the story (it really should have been part of book 1 imo). Messiah was much more what I was expecting from Dune itself.
Oh and I’d love to see your modern sci-fi sampler platter 😊
Hey! Dune was good- but for me it wasnt in my top 10. I havent read messiah! I heard it gets weird and he turns into a worm or something…. But if u think it makes more sense, maybe i will give it a go. And thanks for watching!!
Not a criticism but PERHAPS SF before the Eighties is best split up by the Magazines it was published in, they all definitely had their own flavours and favourite Authors…Before the 1920’s I don’t consider anything SF but Gothic or Mystery and most often ‘spiritual’ trappings rather than Science…good channel.
Thank you! i think I could have cut it many different ways, although to be fair, I never got to experience the magazine side of scifi. So i wouldnt know which authors belonged to which (although I could easily lookit up probably!) thank tou for your insight.
Man in the High Castle was a weird choice for getting into Dick. I hope you try more. Also the Lathe of Heaven and Left Hand… are amazing ULG novels.
Yeah- i plan to give pkd another chance….
So much of “classic SF” was really a literature of short stories. Sure there were novels, even good ones, but too many of them are just fix up collections of short stories stitched together with some additional narrative, or they are padded out to increase the page count. IMO, if you really want to experience the best of classic SF you need to read the short stories.
You make a good point…. But at this time in my scifi journey, i hadnt discovered that yet :) i am hoping to do something like that soon, although I am overwhelmed with how many there are and trying to get ahold of them is also difficult….
The sixties saw the advent of the new wave in SF, which was rather distinct from what most consider to be "classic."
I had to arbitrarily come up with a definition- and ill just stick with it for now
Leibowitz - monks not Jesuits, but Order of St Leibowitz. The Jesuit you may be thinking of is Hoyt in Hyperion. Or perhaps the central character of Blish’s A Case of Conscience.
Ah… u might be right! Thanks for correction!
@@secretsauceofstorycraft
A pleasure. It’s one of my favourite books, as are Hyperion and Case, in SF.
And thanks for excellent presentations
@@anthonyvictor3034 you have wonderful taste,sir!
Regarding H.G. Wells, try "First Men in the Moon." I have ready it twice and liked it. There is a movie which is good, but a little cheesy at times. For Ursula K. LeGuin read "The Left Hand of Darkness." Another author to try is Frederick Pohl. "Man Plus" is good.
Great suggestions! Thanks
Thanks for a great video!
I love me some Bradbury, but for some reason the Martian Cronicles didn't really click with me. I love both The Ilustrated Man and The October Country - these are more just short story collections (although TIM has a cute little frame story which I rather like).
Dick is very much hit or miss. I liked Androids... a lot! As well as Ubik. Eye In The Sky was a mess. I haven't read others by him.
Also, I have to say I do not share your experience of The Disposessed. I found it quite easy and straightforward to read. There is a lot of exploration of ideas, and as you say yourself, that exploration is not simple - she explores good and bad about them, and even explores how there can be traps and pitfalls in the ideas that she otherwise supports, so I guess it could be difficult to follow in that sense, but I found that it flowed quite nicely and was very digestible.
Fair enough! I'm glad to hear I wasn't the only one with that experience. I haven't read Ubik but Jonathan from words in time recommends it highly. I will have to give it a try.
could be because I was listening to the audiobook then switched to text -- sometimes that is what causes it not to flow. But hey everyone has different experience.
I consider Bradbury's "A Miracle of Rare Device" to be one of the most beautiful short stories ever written. And his use of language is incredibly poetic.
Have you tried anything by Stanislaw Lem? Highly recommend….
Just one that I didnt get along with but I need to read more by him….. thanks for the encouragement!!
Like your view of The Man In the High Castle, I have always felt the same way about Do Androids...? Why is it such a classic, what actually happens in it? Give me Blade Runner any day.
Ursula LeGuin's Mother was also a fine writer, see Theodora Kroeber's Ishi in Two Worlds.
I didnt know
HGWells era 1920s to 1940s
I love how she keeps saying she decided to read "one of their lesser known works" and then picks up one of their most well known, iconic works. I do agree Philip K. Dick is one of the most overrated authors in sci fi, and the adaptations of his stories are invariably better than the originals.
Ha, yeah i guess it shows some of my ignorance of the genre then :) I’m tryibf to improve
A few comments. I was born in 1954 and started reading SF in 1966 before my 12th birthday. My first novel was Heinlein’s Tunnel in the Sky. I loved it and spent the next few years reading all the Heinlein’s juvenile novels (precursor to Young Adult?), the novels of Asimov and Clarke. I have had difficulty rereading their novels as an adult. I have learnt that all of them were flawed. Maybe I could overlook those failings if I had not placed them on such a high pedestal. Also, as an adult I have come to realise that Asimov is not a great writer. Heinlein’s novels were better but his later novels fell into a narcissistic solipsistic spiral that I felt somewhat icky. Clarke most probably the best of the three. But to be honest here were better SF authors in the 50s. Bester for instance. Thinking of Bradbury. There were many fix up novels in the 50s and 60s, e.g. Clifford D Simak’s City and Theodore Sturgeon’s More than Human both I would rank above The Martian Chronicles.
This list is invaluable! Especially thank you for sharing ur experience-- i will have to update this list again at some point. Also i just bought Way Station from simak! So im trying
The Alliance brought me here!
Welcome!
I liked THREE MEN IN A BOAT it was written in the 1800s
Of course it's not Sci Fi, but I liked it so much that I read the sequel
Ive heard it was big inspiration for connie willis. But never read it, will check it out!!
Heinlein - the only novel of his I've really enjoyed was The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. If any scifi story needs a decent movie adaptation, it's this one. Although there is the risk of a Hollywood happy ending if it is filmed. The other Heinlein works I've tried have disappointed. I've always felt there is an implicit sense of smugness
in his work. Also he isn't nearly as funny as he thinks he is - most of the humour being Dad Joke level.
Childhood's End is pretty bleak although the analogy with colonialism is on the nose. A more accessible introduction to Clarke is perhaps either Rendezvous with Rama, or City and the stars.
I'm glad Mary Shelley made it on the list. Not only is Frankenstein a solid novel, it's all the more amazing that she was 19 when she wrote it.
H G Wells - try the Time Machine. Much better than the sanitised Hollywood movie.
I'm really surprised that The Forever War and Brave New World didn't make the list.
I have forever war on my TBR but I didnt get to it…. Special content coming soon for brave new world- but both good options. I would have liked to do way more but I haf to end the video somewhere!
The most popular book of P.K. Dick's, besides "Do androids dream of electric sheep", is "Ubik". So I believe your choice was not the best. And for Ursula K. Le Guin, I consider her best book is "The left hand of darkness". I didn't like the Dispossessed at all!
I am currently looking for ubik and will b reading left hand before july!! I am excited to try them
You need to read some Golden Age Sci Fi Jack Williams, Frederick Pohl, Campbell, Simak, Silverberg,
Just read gateway! Got lots more to go!
A light year is a measure of distance, not time.
🤔
Read Left Hand of Darkness.
Its on my list for 2023, it WILL BE DONE!
@@secretsauceofstorycraft please let us know what you think. Let it be done!
One word: "Lem".
YES.
Ursula K. Le Guin DID NOT invent the YA sf novel, try Andre Norton, who was prolific during the fifties and sixties. I grew up on her, always fun, but never bleak.
Good to know- i do love some andre norton
Minor correction... It's 'The Man IN the High Castle', not ''on' the high castle'.
👍🏻
I had a similar experience with Philip K Dick when I read the Valis trilogy! I enjoyed the setup in the first book, appre iated the "trippyness" of the second book and was completely disappointed by the (lack of) finalization in the third book.
Wasted potential
Glad i’m not the only one with that experience… but i do hope his other books do better job.
You are one of those reviewers (especially women) that have to like the protagonist to like and/or appreciate the work. But there is an old saying: Art doesn’t come to you. You have to go to art. I actually prefer a story more if the protagonist is a deeply flawed individual who gets his comeuppance in the end. I haven’t read Neuromancer, but it’s my understanding that Case got what he wanted in the end but he still wasn’t happy. So in a way that was his comeuppance.
🤔
1984 is very relevant to today
Agreed!
When someone says "1984 is so relevant today" I have a feeling that people don't realise how relevant it is to ANY era in ANY country.
The thing about book reviews
They are opinions, your opinions
You shouldn't state your opinions as facts
All that does is make it hard to respect your feelings on the book your going on about
Opinions are like ass holes everybody has one (and they all stink)
But they are also beautiful and should be respected
So think on that next time your gonna trash on someone's opinions
(feelings)
OK maybe not the A hole analogy
I was not aware I was stating things like facts. I agree all reviews are only opinions, and I am most definitely not an expert, nor claim to be.
It would b more helpful if you give specific example why this crossed your mind or why you were rubbed the wrong way so I can be sure to improve in future. Thanks for letting me know!
Neuromancer is one of my favorite books and I also really love Ursula K. Le Guin but... I just finished reading Kindred and was very disappointed at how badly written it is with all those very unbelievable, flat dialogues so I wonder if it will be the same with other books by her.
Imo, kindred is her least good book- consider dawn. I think its her best.
Good video, but it's not Aristotle's "Allegory of the Cave," that is by Plato. Good video though.
Yes 👍🏻 i mis-spoke and linked the appropriate person in the description box, unfortunately I cannot change it now 😖
Philip k dick always mess up his books, that is part of the fun. He wrote many great books but they all are influenced by him taking drugs makes him loose the line. But still extremely exciting books that could have been even better without drugs
Glad someone agrees! It at least gives me better expectations going into the next few
Man in the High Castle is one of the very few books in which I think the adaptation is better
Sadly agreed
Every Philip K. Dick adaptation is better than the original
What about Andre Norton? Woman Sci-Fi and Fantasy author. YA Sci-fi adult fantasy.
I had never read anything by her before but i have now… i will b featuring her stuff very soon!!
25:24 what? you mean other than trying to taeke over the world?
It's just "Foundation"... no THE in the title... otherwise I enjoyed the video... (It just seems odd that a show about books would get the title of the book wrong... every time you mentioned it.)
Yeah- my bad. I just get over excited.
I read once that PKD intended to write a sequel or series after The Man in the High Castle, but couldn't get back into a mindset to write about Nazis... he was pretty fragile mentally with all the drugs.
I believe it-- too many drugs indeed. 😝
In PKD's defense, how do you build yourself up to write about Nazis? Yeah some writers can but I don't blame anyone who don't want to do it again.
So many unpopular opinions; I do appreciate the honesty tho lol
😅 thanks.
Roger Zelazny would be better pick than PKD
I had never heard of zelazny at this, he much more niche haha 😆
@@secretsauceofstorycraft He actually wrote a book with Philip K Dik
I'd like to recommend an author in case you may not have read her works. Julian May. Her Saga of the Pliocene Exile, which includes The Many-Coloured Land, The Golden Torc, The Non-Born King, and The Adversary is an incredible tale, and ties in with her Galactic Mileau trilogy that includes Jack the Bodyless, Magnificat, and Diamond Mask, with another book called Intervention tying the two series together.
I think you'll be fascinated by it...😏👌🏻
Also, although he was more an author of what I call fantastic fiction rather than science fiction (not surprising considering his pulp fiction roots), Edgar Rice Burroughs (of Tarzan fame) wrote some stellar books considered classic science fiction I'd recommend you explore.
They seem a bit like the cheesy space opera serials of the time, but are so much more...😉
I havent heard of this author! I am intrigued! Let me see which of these I can get ahold of….
@@secretsauceofstorycraft She is amazing, and her characterization reminiscent of Heinlein.
Agree, Julian May is incredibly talented!!
@@suzynolanart Absolutely. And many more great works than I mentioned...😋
Actually the real classics are Short stories & Anthologies. These are the real beginnings. Books are later
Yeah thats true!
5:19 - Don't.
🔥
i totally agree with you on HG wells. my god what a boring writing style he had!! I've DNF two of his books, the first one being the war of worlds. i did not like it at all, it seems like he had great ideas but the execution was lacking. great video btw!
thank you!
SF, not sci-fi.
🤷🏼♀️
"I want to avoid Asimov's most famous works." Then chooses his most famous work. And proceeds to butcher the description of the book. Rough start. P.S. Do not watch the Apple TV series. It is nothing like the books. Utter crap.
Ah. That is disappointing (both things). I had mistakenly thought I, Robot was his most famous work and shockingly hadnt heard of foundation at the time, but I understand I hadnt done the best homework on it.
Ners dont call themself ners...
Asimov as the true father of SF? Stop! already.
?
Ok, your opinion of Gibson's book didn't make me like you less at all. But the fact that you enjoyed Hyperion while you did not like Neuromancer ... kinda did. lol jokes aside, I get it. Neuromancer is hard to get into, and his writing style seems almost drug induced. Tons of weird 80's Canadian slang, made up words, words we use differently today, references to things, concepts and people with no explanation and a super weird prose that feels like it was written to make stuff difficult to read.
But Case isn't really supposed to have any redeeming qualities.. the whole point is that it's just a bunch of low life's in a low life, high tech world getting entangled in something much bigger than them, manipulated by an AI. Also, Case does not at any point kick any ass. He's not even that great of a console Cowboy. He's learned from the best but is not even close to their skill (like his mentor McKoy Pauley / Dixie Flatline who's an actual legend). The guy is an upper mid tier cyber criminal. All the ass kicking is actually done by Molly Millions, the razor girl (just writing this stuff down makes me smile at how ridiculous it is). At best, Case kinda checks in on her livestream now and then to offer moral support lol.
Case in fact, is quite a horrible person. When we meet Case he's a junky and a murderer. He found this really nice girl at the arcade .. and he just dragged her as deep as they could go, then left her there. He turned her into a junky and then he just kinda half ghosted her. She is so desperate for his attention it leads to her end.
Honestly it's also .. just cyberpunk. Sometimes it really is like Mike Pondsmith says.. "style over substance". And I think it kinda helped that I ate very strong edibles while reading through neuromancer
Hyperion sucks and is super derivative. There isn't a single original idea. The prose made me want to burn forests so the poor trees have a better purpose than ending up as Dan's books. I mean for the love of Lapis Lazuli, I can't stand the guy's writing style. Every sky is lapis. Hyperion's sky is lapis AND has GREEN in it, and things are vivid from far, but hazy and pastel from close up.. bro WHAT? It drove me mad every time there was a scene on Hyperion. Much of the story is on that planet! What kind of color is Lapis for a day time sky ffs. At least with the first book, it was actually still kinda interesting. I loved the Canterbury Tales thing with the characters. Liked the stories somewhat, although again, most felt very derivative, like bad copies of other authors worlds. styles or genres. Like he tried to put every genre in there. Also, he would use different words for established sci fi terminology ... "cyberpukes" instead of cyberpunk. (that alone makes me hope his pillows are warm and clammy for the rest of his life) But it would have been ok .. it would have been a mediocre book, if it stayed with book one
SPOILERS
In book 2 we find out the outers or whatever they were called, are a bunch of space furries and humanoid insects that are actually "the good guys." And the answer for everything .. all your questions .. well it was LOVE all along. And Weintraub "discovers" that it's not God that is testing Abraham, it's Abraham that is testing God. It's such a misunderstanding of Abrahamic scripture, it's ridiculous. No self respecting Jew would argue such a thing lol. The whole thing with Rachel Weintraub and Kassad the Palestinian with a German name for some reason is commentary on Israel/Palestine. At the end every planet is ok and thriving, except the Muslim planets which are either blown up in "nuclear jihad's" or in absolute chaos. It's also obvious when he uses a thesaurus .. because he'll use the same obscure word 4 or 5 times in a row back to back in like 3 to 5 pages. And then he'll never ever use that word again. How does the muscle lady not recognize Rachel the second time she sees her? Why would the AI god give a f about fighting your human "love" powered trinity god fairly or whatever? Rachel's future looks like the teletubbies world and I just couldn't stop imagining them flying around in teletubby outfits after that. Nothing about anything makes sense. Nothing was truly answered.
But it's been too long for me to go in depth about the issues I have with it, all the plot holes etc. But you get the drift.
Did I tell you about the fact that at the end of both Hyperion books the main characters come together and sing a song. They sing "somewhere over the rainbow" in the second book.. it made me almost throw my ereader against a wall.
I appreciate the depth you considered this book. I have only read it once and while I will also say the keates worship was rather annoying, the lasting impressions of the book for me were the characters and their struggles. The priest struggling with faith, the fathers ironic and painful experience of watching his child aging backward, etc… (not too many spoilers). Its these juxtapositions, the rich characters and the emotions these evoked from me that made me love it. While fall isnt my favorite and i would have made other plot choices, it didnt dimish the hold the characters had on me. And the mystery of the time tombs and shrike were also very well done.
the vibe of unknown/unknowable dan achieves with the shrike is really something- esp in a world where everything is so dependent on science and technology and knowable factual things. Its a breath of wonder and fear and awe. Not alot of books achieve that for me.
But i do need to finish the cantos and see if the characters hold up or not. Ill have to reread with your critiques in mind.
@@secretsauceofstorycraft So I wanted to refresh my memory about all the things I hated about this book. Because there are soo many plotholes etc but it's been a while since I've read it.. Never bothered with goodreads etc, instead I tend to write long ranty comments as you might have noticed ..
Anyway decided to look for my comments under reviews to refresh my memory. Couldn't find the commments at all (I guess they hit youtube censorship due to no no words). Instead I came across library ladder in the comments of another youtuber, praising and raving on about hyperion :(
I feel like you guys are all suffering from a collective form of book stockholm syndrome. Or Dan Simmons is secretly the one that founded the Sci Fi alliance and you guys are in a conspiracy with him.
Anyway, don't mind the rants. Thanks for all the great content and for interacting with your viewers (now you still can)... this seems like one of the channels that I write "wow I used to follow this girl when she had 1.5k followers" in the comments, when you're getting a million views.
Ps. I should probably just make a goodreads account already lol
I could not agree with you more about Man in the High Castle...👍🏻😋
Same with Neuromancer...👌🏻😉
U have good taste 😜
Ursula K. Le Guin DID NOT invent the YA sf novel, try Andre Norton, who was prolific during the fifties and sixties. I grew up on her, always fun, but never bleak.
Wow! 🤩 thank u for that correction! I will have to do more research on it