Or you can weld an o2 sensor bung into your exhaust downpipe and fit a gauge or log the data using mega jolt. Not quite as accurate as a dyno but more convenient!
I had a 1.6 Capri. Dropped a 2.1 with a lightened and balanced flyeheel, crank, pistons and rods, A fast road cam. 4-2-1 manifold and full Janspeed exhaust. And two rejetted twin 45DCOE carbs with pipercross filters. 100LL avgas may or may not have been involved too 😉 Net result was showing 210 horses at the back wheels on the Dyno. I really miss that car.
@@PenguinMotors I definitely remember them saying 210 hp (it was the. Company that set up the carbs) It was quite a few years ago. Could it have been at the flywheel then?
@@crazybrit-nasafan if you play with the calibration you can make a dyno or rolling road read anything you want, i knew one operator that had his machine read high because customers liked big niumbers!! but no 2.1 pinto will ever make a genuine 210bhp flywheel using a fast road cam and 45's
@@PenguinMotors Thanks for the info. A bit annoying as well had paid them quite a chunk for the carbs and set up. I would rather have had an accurate reading rather than an exaggerated one. Given what had been done to the engine, what would you guesstimate the hp would have been at? The only other info on it is they 2.1 conversion was done by Burton and (though wouldn't probably affect anything) I ran it with a Borg and Beck heavy duty clutch.
Interesting the power increases you found from making up those two manifold spacers, the one under the carb, and the one between the head and the manifold. I once got a power increase on a F/Ford 1600 x/flow with longer carb mounting studs and three of Ford's thick carb/manifold gaskets until a scrutineer spotted it and pointed out if was an illegal modification ............
Be very interesting to see what the optimum spacings would be and also the effects of going shorter on the carb spacers, longer on the head spacer and vice versa.
Cracking result Graham. Do you remember the bemouths that Mitcham Motors used back in the early 90's in Fast Car Magazine ..... i recon you should be making a selection starting at 20mm to say 60-80mm of those get a few set plastic printed. Im guessing another 2+ hp .....
Ross, Temperature does make a small difference, but you do have to change it a long way to make any noticeable amount, the slightly difficult thing about testing that is the dyno corrects for air temperature changes. Getting the engine oil properly hot is always worth a couple of bhp!
if you are brave you can file down the throttle spindle screws and even remove the solid leg from the aux venturi (dellortos only have one leg) but any gains will be pretty small
Great job and results Graham... thanks for your time..I have std engine, Im thinking do the same work...inlet and carb only...what do you think??? Thanks.
not sure you will see quite as much of a gain, but even a standard engine responds well to fitting a pair of sidedraft carbs so im sure you will gain power
Hi, great videos! I have a 2 liter pinto I would like to rebuild soon, what would be your suggested changes/upgrades while the engine is dismatled? I'm on a budget and restricted by weber 30/34 DFTH cause 32/36 is not easy to source around here. I'll definetly take a look at machining those spacers. Keep up the good work!
Budget rebuild piper 134 or Kent FR30 cam, skim head 0.5mm 3angle valve seats, lightly port head, you only need rework the short turns and you should get over 130bhp
Hi from NZ. Great channel! Just giving my Pinto a freshen up now which is fun they are such a nice simple little lump. How much HP do you find unshrouding the valves, smoothing out combustion chambers and a wee bit of porting does compared to stock head . (They were pretty rough around the edges in the ford factory!)
Interesting that it actually increased the torque throughout the whole range rather than just moving it up the revs a little further. I've seen some really long inlets on autograss cars, i wonder if it has a similar effect? 🤔
Not strange at all considering that longer intake runners typically make more torque than short ones. The max rev is probably to low to make the stock intake shine. If you watch some of Richard Holdeners intake tests you see that's how most engines behave 😀
@@PenguinMotors I actually have a Amerian v8 for a daly driver. And a Sierra 2.0 pinto, Sierra 2.3 Cologne and a Mustang Cobra for fun cars 🤓 But I have never tuned a v8. But both a pinto and a ls engine is 4 strokes, and I guess they follow the same physical rules, and the effect of runner lengths and headers should compare? A colab with Holdener could be possible I guess, when thinking of the colab with David Vizard that don't live close😀 Have you ever compared a DGV intake back to back against a injection intake on a pinto? Only found you 1 hour ago when a mate sent me a link to this video, so still have some videos to watch.
On a separate note, i'd love to see a video about the effect a good valve job has on an engine. Take a pinto with standard seats and test it, then cut some thin seats right at the edges of the valves and also back the valves off at about 30° too and see what a difference it makes.
This reminds of a vintage car magazine article where they hopped up a new stock straight six Ford in a Mustang or Falcon, I forget which. They ended up getting about 50 percent improvement. The biggest single gain came when they swapped to a much bigger two barrel carb off a Big Ford Six (240). What is the vacuum at wide open throttle on those dyno runs? If it is more than 1 psi, that would suggest a bigger carb would help. I wonder if any of the modifications you did actually hurt low rpm driveability.
vacuum was very little, TBH i dont normally log it, most engines i run are on twin sidedrafts which have bugger all vacuum WOT, in the next video i modified the carb and made another gain.
sort of, they are all interlinked, no point in having a radical cam if the induction system cant keep up, all you end up with is a narrow power-band, as a general rule whatever the rest of engine spec, the better the head you use the better the engine will be
@@PenguinMotors we have found that engine builders are using the wrong size valves in x-flows..... Wrong size DCOE carbs. When they are using 45 DCOE's they probably only need 42's
As you will know most engines follow a tried formula, because its expensive and time consuming to try and develop something different. On the carb size i would agree, but how many 42's are out there? i have physically come across just one set over 30 years ago!
@@PenguinMotors 42 mm throttle bodies.... I need 43mm..... AT Power throttle bodies, Motec Ecu. I'm running capacitors.... Not sparkplugs. 5 million Watts v 50 watts
Another great video Graham. 👌👌🙏🙏 I am not familiar with the F2 cam, is F2 cam popular for road use too or Piper 134 ( or Burton 134 ) could do equally well ? What other cam/s with these engine specs you might suggest?
@@PenguinMotors thank you very much Graham. Interestingly, Kent’s GTS range of camshafts are not much talked about in TS forum in-spite of the fact that some of them look good on paper. Would be great to see results of GTS camshafts. I know investment wise it is not easy to test all the GTS range but may be some popular ones could be tested one day.
Hi Graham great video. I have a question about twin Weber 45s on a pinto. What are your thoughts about using filters on these carbs? I’ve just had twin Weber 45s installed on my 2L pinto engine and guy that sold them to me and installed them put big filters on them. Are these really that necessary or could I use the gauze ones that go over the trumpets?
I use to run 48's on my Pinto years ago. for the road i used 40mm trumpets with deep K&N filters. For track days 120 mm trumpets and no filters , i also tried filter socks the old girl fell flat on her face total restriction. Air filters are there for a reason nice clean filter means happy score free bores it does not take long esp in the summer to trash the bores ....
@@gileshamilton4462 Hi thanks for the info on using filters on the carbs. I will defiantly leave the big filters on. It’s cost a bit to get the twin weber 45s on the last thing I want to do is destroy them!
Hi! I am into historic sport regularity which means we are able to slightly modify our intake system. Currently I am running a 32/36 with a 4brunch exhaust but other than that isa stantard engine. I just need that extra 10 to 20bhp so i would need a mild cam sporty and as midpowered as could be...any suggestions.??? Gr8 Videos
The water passage on the head and intake manifold must be blocked when making the inlet spacer or must make the cut out on the spacer for water?aNd can you tell me the sizes for rejetting the carb please
This proves more than ever that a dyno is required as the best mods need the fueling sorted.
Once again a good educational vid, thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it, the thing is to a point carbs are self adjusting, more airflow gets you more fuel, but only to a certain point
Or you can weld an o2 sensor bung into your exhaust downpipe and fit a gauge or log the data using mega jolt. Not quite as accurate as a dyno but more convenient!
@@Jonathan_Doe_ His dyno dont ahve os sensores?? Weel thsa not a Dyno
Thax for sharing your knowledge and experience.Great video as always. I am a ford fan and find your vids very informative,much appreciated.
I had a 1.6 Capri. Dropped a 2.1 with a lightened and balanced flyeheel, crank, pistons and rods, A fast road cam. 4-2-1 manifold and full Janspeed exhaust. And two rejetted twin 45DCOE carbs with pipercross filters. 100LL avgas may or may not have been involved too 😉
Net result was showing 210 horses at the back wheels on the Dyno.
I really miss that car.
nice one but that dyno must of been reading pub horse power, as no way you of of actually had 210bhp at the wheels
@@PenguinMotors I definitely remember them saying 210 hp (it was the. Company that set up the carbs) It was quite a few years ago. Could it have been at the flywheel then?
@@crazybrit-nasafan if you play with the calibration you can make a dyno or rolling road read anything you want, i knew one operator that had his machine read high because customers liked big niumbers!! but no 2.1 pinto will ever make a genuine 210bhp flywheel using a fast road cam and 45's
@@PenguinMotors Thanks for the info. A bit annoying as well had paid them quite a chunk for the carbs and set up. I would rather have had an accurate reading rather than an exaggerated one.
Given what had been done to the engine, what would you guesstimate the hp would have been at? The only other info on it is they 2.1 conversion was done by Burton and (though wouldn't probably affect anything) I ran it with a Borg and Beck heavy duty clutch.
@@crazybrit-nasafan Hard question to answer without knowing a lot more information, but you likely somewhere between 150 and 180bhp
Interesting the power increases you found from making up those two manifold spacers, the one under the carb, and the one between the head and the manifold. I once got a power increase on a F/Ford 1600 x/flow with longer carb mounting studs and three of Ford's thick carb/manifold gaskets until a scrutineer spotted it and pointed out if was an illegal modification ............
From South Africa, loving your videos.
Thanks Graham great gains im really enjoying this series
Free power. Worth a try
he won 7 hp,, thas very very little.
You don’t get anything for free nowadays !! Graham thank you I’ll take that 😎👍🏻👍🏻
Free BHP always a winner, nice work 👍
Love these videos you put out. Give us a hint at how you get so much valve lift with a mild cam
Be very interesting to see what the optimum spacings would be and also the effects of going shorter on the carb spacers, longer on the head spacer and vice versa.
Optimum is probably longer than you can fit in the engine bay of a lot of cars. I tend to only try what average Joe might do at home
I remember pinto being very picky about exhaust runner length, big runners but medium length where good. Would be fun to see a video about that.
Would like to see a pre xflow tuning 1500cc on dcoe running 244 - 254 cams
DUDES SPITTING PEARLS. thanx 4 sharing . defnitely a subscriber now
Nice vids you make just found them online, keep them coming
Terrific video.
Cracking result Graham. Do you remember the bemouths that Mitcham Motors used back in the early 90's in Fast Car Magazine ..... i recon you should be making a selection starting at 20mm to say 60-80mm of those get a few set plastic printed. Im guessing another 2+ hp .....
ive tried really a really short stub stack, it basically did nothing
Brilliant. I'm trying spacers. Thanks.
hey graham, do you think you could make something up showing the difference between a warmer and a colder air temperature. keep up the good work
Ross, Temperature does make a small difference, but you do have to change it a long way to make any noticeable amount, the slightly difficult thing about testing that is the dyno corrects for air temperature changes. Getting the engine oil properly hot is always worth a couple of bhp!
Thanks Graham great job, are there things that you can do like that, that will turn your 40s into 45s
if you are brave you can file down the throttle spindle screws and even remove the solid leg from the aux venturi (dellortos only have one leg) but any gains will be pretty small
great information
Great job and results Graham... thanks for your time..I have std engine, Im thinking do the same work...inlet and carb only...what do you think???
Thanks.
not sure you will see quite as much of a gain, but even a standard engine responds well to fitting a pair of sidedraft carbs so im sure you will gain power
Hi, interesting video, keep them coming!!. Quick pick of your brain - would a manifold spacer work with twin 40's (on a crossflow)?
probably, but the effect would be pretty much the same as using longer ram pipes
Amazing results for some things most would not expect to have any effect at all! Have you tried a bellmouth on the carb inlet?
Yes but it didn’t make any difference
@@PenguinMotors Thanks - I did wonder. They used to be on FF1600s but you don't see them so often any more.
Hi, great videos! I have a 2 liter pinto I would like to rebuild soon, what would be your suggested changes/upgrades while the engine is dismatled? I'm on a budget and restricted by weber 30/34 DFTH cause 32/36 is not easy to source around here. I'll definetly take a look at machining those spacers. Keep up the good work!
Budget rebuild piper 134 or Kent FR30 cam, skim head 0.5mm 3angle valve seats, lightly port head, you only need rework the short turns and you should get over 130bhp
@@PenguinMotors thank you very much! I'll try to source 32/36 carb, if I could get 130 hp that would be awesome!
Hi from NZ. Great channel! Just giving my Pinto a freshen up now which is fun they are such a nice simple little lump. How much HP do you find unshrouding the valves, smoothing out combustion chambers and a wee bit of porting does compared to stock head . (They were pretty rough around the edges in the ford factory!)
About 5bhp
Interesting that it actually increased the torque throughout the whole range rather than just moving it up the revs a little further. I've seen some really long inlets on autograss cars, i wonder if it has a similar effect? 🤔
i would of thought so, especially with a restricted intake
Not strange at all considering that longer intake runners typically make more torque than short ones.
The max rev is probably to low to make the stock intake shine.
If you watch some of Richard Holdeners intake tests you see that's how most engines behave 😀
@@espenschjelderup426 although American V8's are not my thing, ive seen most of Richards videos, wish i could just pop down to wes ttech
@@PenguinMotors I actually have a Amerian v8 for a daly driver. And a Sierra 2.0 pinto, Sierra 2.3 Cologne and a Mustang Cobra for fun cars 🤓
But I have never tuned a v8.
But both a pinto and a ls engine is 4 strokes, and I guess they follow the same physical rules, and the effect of runner lengths and headers should compare?
A colab with Holdener could be possible I guess, when thinking of the colab with David Vizard that don't live close😀
Have you ever compared a DGV intake back to back against a injection intake on a pinto?
Only found you 1 hour ago when a mate sent me a link to this video, so still have some videos to watch.
On a separate note, i'd love to see a video about the effect a good valve job has on an engine. Take a pinto with standard seats and test it, then cut some thin seats right at the edges of the valves and also back the valves off at about 30° too and see what a difference it makes.
This reminds of a vintage car magazine article where they hopped up a new stock straight six Ford in a Mustang or Falcon, I forget which. They ended up getting about 50 percent improvement. The biggest single gain came when they swapped to a much bigger two barrel carb off a Big Ford Six (240).
What is the vacuum at wide open throttle on those dyno runs? If it is more than 1 psi, that would suggest a bigger carb would help.
I wonder if any of the modifications you did actually hurt low rpm driveability.
vacuum was very little, TBH i dont normally log it, most engines i run are on twin sidedrafts which have bugger all vacuum WOT, in the next video i modified the carb and made another gain.
Do you have to put longer bolts on for the inch spacer engine manifold please
Yes
@@PenguinMotors any what bhp you would get from a 2.0 pinto with Kent fr 32 cams and 32 36 Weber 4 2 1 sporttex manifold please .Dyno run
If the head is standard about 130 bhp
@@PenguinMotors thanks ps enjoying all the vids
Mmmmmm.. You need to flow test the head and then design the inlet, exhaust and cam??
sort of, they are all interlinked, no point in having a radical cam if the induction system cant keep up, all you end up with is a narrow power-band, as a general rule whatever the rest of engine spec, the better the head you use the better the engine will be
@@PenguinMotors we have found that engine builders are using the wrong size valves in x-flows.....
Wrong size DCOE carbs.
When they are using 45 DCOE's they probably only need 42's
As you will know most engines follow a tried formula, because its expensive and time consuming to try and develop something different. On the carb size i would agree, but how many 42's are out there? i have physically come across just one set over 30 years ago!
@@PenguinMotors 42 mm throttle bodies.... I need 43mm.....
AT Power throttle bodies, Motec Ecu.
I'm running capacitors.... Not sparkplugs.
5 million Watts v 50 watts
Another great video Graham. 👌👌🙏🙏 I am not familiar with the F2 cam, is F2 cam popular for road use too or Piper 134 ( or Burton 134 ) could do equally well ? What other cam/s with these engine specs you might suggest?
The F2 cam isnt really a road cam, its intended for short circuit oval racing, i would expect similar results from a 134
@@PenguinMotors thank you very much Graham. Interestingly, Kent’s GTS range of camshafts are not much talked about in TS forum in-spite of the fact that some of them look good on paper. Would be great to see results of GTS camshafts. I know investment wise it is not easy to test all the GTS range but may be some popular ones could be tested one day.
Hi Graham great video. I have a question about twin Weber 45s on a pinto. What are your thoughts about using filters on these carbs? I’ve just had twin Weber 45s installed on my 2L pinto engine and guy that sold them to me and installed them put big filters on them. Are these really that necessary or could I use the gauze ones that go over the trumpets?
like a lot of others my race car runs open intakes no filters, but big filters are good, gauze ones over the trumpets will cost you power.
I use to run 48's on my Pinto years ago. for the road i used 40mm trumpets with deep K&N filters. For track days 120 mm trumpets and no filters , i also tried filter socks the old girl fell flat on her face total restriction. Air filters are there for a reason nice clean filter means happy score free bores it does not take long esp in the summer to trash the bores ....
@@gileshamilton4462 Hi thanks for the info on using filters on the carbs. I will defiantly leave the big filters on. It’s cost a bit to get the twin weber 45s on the last thing I want to do is destroy them!
@@PenguinMotors hi Graham thanks for the info. Looks like the big filters are the way to go!
Uni filters👍 David Vizard talk's about them.
Hi! I am into historic sport regularity which means we are able to slightly modify our intake system. Currently I am running a 32/36 with a 4brunch exhaust but other than that isa stantard engine. I just need that extra 10 to 20bhp so i would need a mild cam sporty and as midpowered as could be...any suggestions.??? Gr8 Videos
piper BP134 or kent FR30 cam, basically same cam, both will give more power with no loss of torque
So spacer dont give more HP?
try a bigger one jsut for fun..a nd then ry long runners.
spacer gave more power
@@PenguinMotors really?? show me the graphics
What jets did you put it when it went lean to make the 3.5 horse power?
bigger ones! sorry it was a long while and 1000's of dyno tests agao so i dont know
If 1" spacers are an improvement, would 2" spacers be better again?
Possibly, sometimes spacers work sometimes not, i will make some thicker ones and try again
Hi what type of material used to make the carb and intake spacer?
i made them from a block of aluminium
@@PenguinMotors thank you
Hello.if I try to do these mods do I need to re jet the carb and if I add a velocity stacks improve
You may need to reject, I don’t think velocity stacks will do much if anything
Thank you for your help much appreciated
Sorry for troubling you but can you tell me what size jets you used
The water passage on the head and intake manifold must be blocked when making the inlet spacer or must make the cut out on the spacer for water?aNd can you tell me the sizes for rejetting the carb please
And what was the CR during this test?
9.75
Cool!
Is 2 Su Carb a HUGE upgrade?
possibly an upgrade, but i dont think it would be a huge upgrade, but no one makes a manifold, so sorting that and a linkage would be a pain
@@PenguinMotors yeah... Im thinking about Motorcycle carbs... Cheaper and easier to adapt
@@21camaleonte they can work, but are not always the walk in the park everyone thinks
Just like electricity, there is no free horsepower. You just have to find it.
there are no free meals...