Excellent presentation. I was lucky enough to see these locos in action at Manchester, Woodhead and Sheffield. That dates me! I believe that it was a tragic waste of a cross-Pennine line that could have been so useful today. The Woodhead tunnel was new, the overhead gantries could have been easily and cheaply adapted to take 25kV equipment, as were the Great Eastern lines out of Liverpool Street, and although the coal traffic has gone, there is still a requirement for passenger and intermodal freight traffic.
Surely the point is that The Woodhead Route Electrification was 25 years too late and it’s Electrification was way too short on the Lancashire side to be of any any real financial benefit. The case for the passenger service was always, as now, marginal. The 1950s upgrade of The Woodhead route was a Nationalisation Totem. It was badly thought out and proved to be a waste of very scarce capital. The follow up was the even more wasteful modernisation plan. This does not bode well for the now unstoppable re nationalisation of the railways.
The tunnels were fine for 1.5 kV DC or 6.25 kV AC but not 25 kV AC. You need at least 11 inches of gap to prevent arcing to earth. By closure BR had to 6.25 kV AC electric locomotives as all had been withdrawn or converted to 25 kV AC.
ironcally several years ago the chancellor at the time proposed that a tunnel be dug through the pennines to increase rail traffic.......completely forgetting that his party had closed down a tunnel in the 1980s!
Should never have closed. I travelled with friends on a special from Essendine on the ECML to celebrate the opening of the electrified section in the 1950s and when living in Manchester many years later I travelled with my daughter on the last day of passenger trains on the Woodhead route. Thanks for the excellent video.
The mainline between Sheffield and Manchester via Woodhead needs to be re-opened to match the Transpennine Route Upgrade between Leeds and Manchester. According to National Grid the high voltage cables are not an issue regarding reusing the tunnel for electric trains.
Couldn't agree more. Rather than all the expensive and wasted effort on HS2 the entire Great Central route should have been reopened/realigned. All the way from the South East to Manchester and beyond to link with the WCML and Liverpool docks.
You are absolutely correct. HS2 is a complete nonsense. It is ridiculous for a country supposedly strapped for cash to be constructing a high speed line as a priority before optimising and upgrading and developing with electrification the existing network.
Correct, but government, businesses, and accountants, don't see from that perspective. That's the silly world we live in. ... it could be made to pay if they do desired it to be. @@alanspencer7668
That was a beautifully engineered line. It's disgraceful how railway infrastructure is treated. Unfortunately, the same thing occurs here in the United States. Watching those freights hauled by the electrics was like watching a beautifully designed and well oiled machine operating.
Aside from the loss of the majority of the Great Central further south - which was already engineered to a loading gauge suitable for modern megabox containers - the closure of this alternative corridor between Greater Manchester and Sheffield was IMO the greatest misstep of “Reshaping Britain’s Railways”. Even worse was the failure to protect the right of way by handing-over the later Woodhead bore to the CEGB to be used as a transmission cable route. Yes, the uneconomic branches needing trimming back was sensible but the abject failure to plan for further growth in the containerised freight sector - which had its own chapter in the report - and its need of well-engineered direct routes to ports was shortsighted at best and downright foolhardy at worst. Ah, Blighty; complacent, always run for now, claiming to be building for the future but usually for a future which never pans-out. And now haemorrhaging money on a vanity high-speed rail project that Britain doesn’t want or need and realistically cannot afford. Great job, leaders!
Yes, scrapping a major route from London the the industrial north was criminal, especially since even the MSLR/GCR had the foresight to build it to the Berne loading gauge!
@@royfearn4345 This is an often repeated myth. The Berne loading gauge wasn't defined until 1912, long after the last mainline built by the MSLR/GCR was opened. However, the London Extension was built to a very generous yet smaller loading gauge.
Spent many hours watching the electrics on the Woodhead route. I lived in Droylsden and used to frequent Fairfield Station, Guide Bridge etc. I used to be able to see the electrics from the fourth floor of Openshaw Technical College when I was a student there.
The ridiculous mindset that closed the route is still running the transport strategy in 'Modern Britain' today. They allowed the Woodhead tunnel to be repurposed meaning the route will never reopen
Excellent video. The Woodhead Line was part of the inspiration for my railway modelling. I am sure that the bean-counters felt satisfied, but the closure was nothing short of a complete waste.
My dad used to work on the Woodhead Line and drove those locos. I remember him telling me about them when I was young. He's no longer with us but I can't help wondering if, just maybe, he was driving one of those beautiful locos in the film. I like to think so...
I was a second man at Guide Bridge for a while I was amazed at the drivers knowledge of their locos and routes one chap used to insist I swept the cab before he allowed me to ride with him they were very happy days I left before the line closed and wonder to this day why I did
The ‘Government’ surely you mean successive governments made of of politicians of different coloured coats! All politicians have run down the railways and waved the flags for roads. No one bats an eye lid when a six lane motorway is proposed but when its a railway all hell breaks loose!
This line needed massive upgrading of equipment, was more expensive to operate and thanks to the recession was surplus to requirements. The locomotives and electrification equipment were non-standard and life expired and as such were expensive to replace. They couldn't convert it to 25kV AC as the arc distance forc1.5kV DC is only 4 inches whilst 25kV AC needs 11 inches and the Woodhead tunnels couldn't accommodate it. They could accommodate 6.25KV AC but by 1980 we had no locomotives capable 9f running on that voltage as all had either been withdrawn or converted to 25 kV AC only. It was more expensive to shift coal on the Woodhead as each train would required 3 sets of locomotives per train plus bankers as needed. You needed a diesel from the mine to the start of the Woodhead, then the DC locomotive or locomotives to the far end and then another diesel to get the train to Fiddler's Ferry power station. Going by the Hope Valley needed just a diesel for the entire route and no time consuming locomotive changes enroute. Traffic volumes fell during the recession of the late 1970s/early 1980s freeing up capacity on the Hope Valley route and so BR consolidated all traffic from Sheffield to Manchester onto that line.
@45:25 I was hoping to see the familiar number 5 dice pattern on the Hadfield EMU. I used to catch that train to school. If only the Woodhead line had been closer to London - I'm sure it would still be operating today.
Top video 👍. Where i used to live in Yorkshire near goole was loads of siddings all gone now .plus all the lost power stations. Shame doesnt look the same any more 😢.
Two of the saddest sights in the world are a war cemetery and a locomotive scrap line. Superb film covering what will be remembered for many years hence, as a jewel in BR's crown. Sadly lamented.
Stunning views,video capture very well filmed and narrated...👍🏻 What a shame those 3 mile tunnels were closed utterly stunning engineering to those who built, designed them and also the poor workers that lost their lives building the tunnels.
I've waited years for a documentary like this. I've spotted a few remnants of the line over the last 4 years: an old 1500v DC substation on approach to Guide Bridge from Hyde; the first air shaft for Woodhead 3 on top of the Pass, and my personal favourite, the abandoned signal gantry just beyond Hadfield station. Such a shame to see such a unique line cast away so easily.
I think if the vast part of the woodhead line is still there with the trackbed and key points still there it should be given some serious thought about re opening it. I was dead against it being shut and the big mistake was taking up the track if they’d left it there and just mothballed it we might have a better infrastructure now
great video..brings back memories of visits to Sheffield Victoria around 1969/70/71. 2 episodes stand out .. 1) seeing E26000 Tommy which I think had been reinstated. 2) being allowed in the cab of a 76 as it ran round it's stovk in Victoria Station.
Very informative video. On several occasions I had the EM2 powering the train I was on here in the Netherlands, where they served mainly on the route between Rotterdam and Venlo on the border with Germany. What amazed me in the video was that while in the Netherlands double heading was not allowed as was thought it would cause a too high voltage drop under the 1500V system there were sometimes 4 class 76 on a train on the Woodhead route. This can be due to the fact that the class 76 did not have a really high power output, it had 1300hp continuous and 1800hp max, where the Dutch class 1200 from 1951 had 3000hp max and the class 1600 from 1980 had 6300hp max. The reason the Dutch Railways didn't want the class 76 was because they were considered obsolete, they were underpowered and too slow for the conveyance of passenger trains, the EM1 was designed as a goods locomotive with the intention to run them double headed. (braking force was superb on them however) The class EM2 was more up to this task and those were not too old by the time those came up for sale in 1969, also the NS then needed some locomotives quickly as a stopgap measure because there was not yet an answer on the new locomotives which had to be purchased. That answer came a few years later in the form of the SNCF class 7200.
35:52 I live in one of two terraces built of blue engineering brick by the GCR in 1901 to house the workers at Dunford Bridge Station etc, five minutes walk up the hill from Dunford Bridge at Townhead.
I used to watch the 76's heading up and down the Worsbrough incline as a lad back in the late 50's and through the 1960's hauling coal and running back empty, this video pulls all that together very nicely, many thanks for the upload.
If the Woodhead route still existed, it could be electrified at 25kV and be a major trans Pennine route for freight and passengers. This would relieve the existing lines and improve the punctuality of trains. It's not too late! The track bed is still there! Why did you ever close the line?
Woodhead 1,2 and 3 are used by National Grid tocarry power cables. I would think in this day and age, Woodhead 3 could be used again for trains if National Grid were told to re-site the the cable they controversially installed in that tunnel. Although 1 and 2 would need work,National Grid with the money they make could invest in sorting those tunnels out for power cables thus freeing up 3, which was bored for the overhead lines. Unfortunately the government's, both past and present have no inclination to do anything which is a shame considering the track bed is there and only needs reinstating between Penistone and Hadfield
What a wonderful and informative film! "Progress" always brings sadness, though, and this is a tragic story. How ridiculous to see a 40, a "modern", mediocre and stinky diesel, towing away the efficient, cleaner 76s to be cut up by Booth's of Rotherham. I've just seen that DB have brought 92029 back into service, so there is some hope.
Many thanks Alan. I remember vividly pulling up the window just before the Tunnel to avoid the smoke, and soon after watching in awe as we flashed by after electrification. About 20+ years ago the gates were open, so My Dad and I were able to walk in to the old tunnels at Dunford Bridge
I remember when i got into railways in 77 as a trainspotting 12 year old , going to Reddish and i found rows and rows of class 76s scrapped . Class 40 021 Ivernia is the image forlorn scrapped has haunted my head all my life as the only named EE type 4 i never had for haulage.
A fascinating and sad to see these routes being shut down, and any hope of restoring them scattered to the wind, as they sell off the track bed to developers/land owners, ensuring future use impossible. Men's livelyhoods and communities being snuffed out by the "uneconomical" argument put forward by those who profited most. This is where the capitalist face shows its uncaring side in sharp relief.
Ernest Marple of Marple Ridgeway shut them down by putting a stooge in charge, Dr beeching an ici chemical engineer. Road open for his family firm to build motorways ,!
Woodhead route closed in '81. Marples was dead and Beeching was retired. The line was shut due to not being economically feasible to operate during a recession.
Thank you station master. That would have been true for the whole economy, and beeching was part of the same problem, in that the Conservative party trashes and loots Britain, and so did Blair. During thatcher the tilting train was introduc
Great "then and now" style presentation at the beginning. Four 76s on one coal train ! . How sorely do we need this line today? Maybe a totally up to date view in the same order could be made ?
i remember sitting in the beer garden at the Stanhope Arms, Dunford Bridge in the mid 1960s watching these electric locomotives passing by.A great trip out from our home in Wakefield.
A group of us from Oughtibridge used to travel to Penistone every school day in the 1950s. Originally we had a C-13, generally shunting backwards, pulling 3 coaches. Eventually the C-13s were replaced which these electric engines. When I got into form 6 at PGS, Beeching removed first the passenger service, then the freight service. I spent many hours walking from Penistone station to the grammar school....... Its time to reopen this line. The A628 over Woodhead is still the mess it always was. In the US, we would have 4-laned it years back.
I inspect bridges in Tyrone area, I could cry when we come across such excellent built railway structures doing nothing but holding up u roads. Still no railway in Tyrone or Fermanagh .... shocking
Would have liked to have seen something on the mechanics of the old Class 76 trains. How big were the motors and how were they controlled. Was the DC line voltage supplied by Mercury arc rectifiers?
No rectifiers were harmed in this film! It was DC, and the loco had DC resistance controlled current. 1500 line volts, 1500 max traction motor voltage with all resistances cut out. The 110vDC for auxiliary machine like compressors and control was provided by a 1500/110v motor generator set.
A Sad loss from a Bygone Era ,Name and Shame those in Westminster for what they proposed to this beautiful route ,Just awful that this was the way it was . Beautiful Video but just shameful . Especially BR Decision Makers at the highest level proposing Closures .
Great video. Two questions: 1. Why was OHLE so high? 2. It seems that every available pantograph was in use, yet nowadays it is usually one per train. Thanks for any answers.
The OHLE varied in height. Often, it was high due to the need to avoid structures such as coaling plants/water towers which were still in use when the 76s/EM1s were introduced. They would also be set high at stations. The use of both pantographs helped current collection in all weathers. Today's pantographs are that much more efficient.
In the United states the woodhead line Hadfield to Sheffield Victoria can be compared to the MILW Mainline Seattle,WA to Miles City,MT Electric Sections Seattle to Othello,WA and Avery,ID to Harlowton, MT was that they were electrified and prove that Electric locomotives are better than steam and diesels in long tunnels. For the British Railways management they should have went and upgraded it to 25kv 50hz and build a connecting curve to MML Sheffield Station that way Classes 800 802 810s can use Woodhead Tunnel followed by the Class 99s and diesel locos the Class 60 tugs
I started on the railway 1980 at Guide Bridge as a second man or the proper title Driver's assistant. Did a lot on wood head line going to Tinsley plus wath with the Bo Bo class 76 had to walk along frame to put up a red disc over a white light for a tail light if going back light engine.
Regarding no use for the Class 76 here in the Netherlands: at that time, NS was receiving their Class 1600, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Class_1600. Many of these and of the succeding Class 1700 have also been scrapped. - I should note, that NS sold their freight division to DB, and the final act of loco-hauled passenger trains in the Netherlands has begun. Freight trains are now generally hauled by multi-current locos (and some diesels, like the Class 66).
@@mikeuk4130 Only 6 in service, 1 for parts. However, they surely were welcome. As I understand it, the one remaining here in the Netherlands is in demand for special trains. - However, the NS class 1200 (designed by Baldwin) seems even more iconic.
Class 76 locos were tested in Essex at the time the Woodhead line wasn't ready. Only when the electrification of important sections were completed did the EM1 BoBos move north.
National Grid have stated that the high voltage cables are clipped to the side of the tunnel, and there is no reason why single or duble tracks cannot be installed for trains. Even if the tunnels were unexpectedly found to be unsuitable for trains, then the cables could be relocated to a smaller cable tunnel at minimal cost, as in the London area.
This film is obviously quite old now. Anyone know its production date and producer? I am so grateful that someone had the foresight to record the magnificent achievements of our grandfathers. IMHO We should curse successive governments for their bungling mismanagement of national resources.
Alan would it be possible to have a copy of your video? We have just got a cab from the Science Museum in Manchester for the South Yorkshire Transport Museum in Rotherham. It would be nice to show it. Thanks David.
When the line was electrified, someone realised that the tunnels were too narrow to accommodate the wires and gantries. A new Woodhead Tunnel was given the go-ahead in 1947, at a time when money was being spent on rebuilding after six years of war. It was a disgrace that the tunnel was in use for fifteen years only for passenger trains. A second Thurgoland Tunnel had to be built, but this was less of a problem, as the tunnel is only just over 300 yards long.
@@jhuc2869 that might have been possible at the cost of reducing the line's capacity. Lowering the capacity would mean the line would become less desirable and not worth of electrification.
@@jhuc2869 then no need to convert to AC from DC. However, with spare capacity on the Hope Valley line due to the recession of the late 1970s/early 1980s there was no need to retain this line at that time. A bi-derctional line reduces the line's capacity no matter what the locomotive types are.
Beautiful line, but once coal declined its fate seemed to sealed. I don’t even know if now, in 2023, there would be enough demand to justify its reopening, however unlikely that is anyway with the main tunnel gone with electricity cables
So did a quick check on the AL1-5 AC electric locos and they were all capable of 6.25 kv running. That said, they couldn't be spared as demand for the WCML was so great. Source Wikipedia.
One of the reasons given by BR for closing the Woodhead route was to cut down the number of OHL systems in use to just 25 kv. This was the same reason given for converting existing 6.25 kv to 25kv.
It varied in height across the route and was often set high to avoid original structures such as coaling plants and water towers. It tended to be high at stations as well.
Well the electrical equipment was non-standard and in need of replacement pots there was a recession on and a government that wanted better value for money. Mothballing wasn't an option.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 That response begs some obvious questions, absent obvious answers (unless one is a BR employee). equipment was non-standard ~ on an isolated system, why might that matter? equipment in need of replacement ~ who defined that need? The equipment worked, so why not maintain it to high standards? Mothballing wasn't an option ~ undoubtedly it was, but not chosen. Any sound financial / engineering reasons? PS Political policy at that time was cutting back on industrial capacity, to co-incide with political opinion and philosophy. Forty years on the consequences are all too apparent.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad 1. Being non-standard it becomes more expensive to maintain as it needs a separate supply chain for spares and as equipment ages and spares get used up the cost of sourcing spares increases. 2. There comes a point were maintenance costs become so high that replacement becomes an option. The life span of any component is defined by the manufacturer. They typically give a guaranteed service life. This as true for the family car as it is for the railways. Both the Woodhead Line and the line from Shildon to Newport were electrified to 1,500V DC and both had it removed as life expired. In the case of the Shildon line it was replaced by steam locomotives as coal was cheap, cheaper than electrification. But unlike the Woodhead the Shildon line was needed for the movement of coal as there was no spare capacity of the ex-Stockton and Darlington line. 3. Mothballing is expensive and the government of the time was looking to reduce public spending. Firstly, you have all the costs of maintenance without any income to offset it against. And you have to do this for an unspecified length of time. You also have to maintain rolling stock sufficient to cover any services you might at some point re-introduce (again this will be for an unspecified length of tine). You need to maintain route knowledge of the train crew (but for how long) or be willing to train new train crew. Or you can do what they did to the Bramley Line in Cambridgeshire, where apart from a small stretch used by a railway Museum the line has been left to Mother Nature to maintain. All of the infrastructure has been left untended. The level crossings have had their rails removed. This line hasn't seen a train in almost 25 years and although their is the political will to reopen the line (primarily by the party that asked Dr Beeching force list of lines to cut), it is unlike to get very far as the line crosses the busy A47 as the road skirts around Wisbech. It too, over 40 years to get a bridge at King's Dyke, a few miles from Wisbech. Anyway, the recession of the late 1970s/early 1980s caused a drop it traffic levels freeing up capacity of the Hope Valley line meant there was no need to retain the Woodhead line. Yes, 40 years later with a couple of recessions, a couple of financial crises, population growth and changes to how businesses operated prior to Covid-19, the utility of having the the Woodhead Line has returned. But with companies changing the wAy they work post-Covid, how much of that demand could be met with l.onger trains?
The 'Up Bore' tunnel did have a signal box built into it in one of the cross passages that had been opened out to accommodate a small recessed signal box (it was located in cross passage/recess number 12). It was there to signal the up line only & to break up the section on the rising gradient between Woodhead & Dunford Bridge to increase capacity, apparently the signalmen who covered & staffed the tunnel box were given an additional 2d & 6s per week, plus the shifts were only 6 hours at a time. The operational life of the tunnel signal box wasn't long. It opened in 1899 but was abandoned & abolished in 1909 due to 'atrocious working conditions'.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad The line which is the backbone of East Anglia. The Woodhead route has never had any real importance, only every really being a secondary freight route. If it were not electrified I would bet a lot of money that it would be a footnote in British Railway history.
It's a crime the government of the time made a mistake this line needs to be reinstated it would still be viable the amount of freight from hull Immingham and traffic on m62 warrants this instead of having faster routes to London invest that money into reopening this line with the iports that could be connected it would make a vast difference
Why on earth take away an electrified efficient cross pennine route after spending so much money on it? It doesn't make sense, it would make economic sense if there were intention and purpose to do so. It could be 25kv OLE compatible by now. The central northern England East/West route modernised to maximum effect. A backward step to close it.
An excellent video and highlights lunatic political thinking in the UK to close such a valuable route which could have been well used today.
Excellent presentation. I was lucky enough to see these locos in action at Manchester, Woodhead and Sheffield. That dates me!
I believe that it was a tragic waste of a cross-Pennine line that could have been so useful today. The Woodhead tunnel was new, the overhead gantries could have been easily and cheaply adapted to take 25kV equipment, as were the Great Eastern lines out of Liverpool Street, and although the coal traffic has gone, there is still a requirement for passenger and intermodal freight traffic.
Surely the point is that The Woodhead Route Electrification was 25 years too late and it’s Electrification was way too short on the Lancashire side to be of any any real financial benefit. The case for the passenger service was always, as now, marginal. The 1950s upgrade of The Woodhead route was a Nationalisation Totem. It was badly thought out and proved to be a waste of very scarce capital. The follow up was the even more wasteful modernisation plan.
This does not bode well for the now unstoppable re nationalisation of the railways.
The tunnels were fine for 1.5 kV DC or 6.25 kV AC but not 25 kV AC. You need at least 11 inches of gap to prevent arcing to earth. By closure BR had to 6.25 kV AC electric locomotives as all had been withdrawn or converted to 25 kV AC.
ironcally several years ago the chancellor at the time proposed that a tunnel be dug through the pennines to increase rail traffic.......completely forgetting that his party had closed down a tunnel in the 1980s!
@@neiloflongbeck5705 they could have put 25kv through the new tunnel
@@johnroberts8512 only if it was single tracked. You need at least 11 inches of clearance of the wire closest to the tunnel roof to prevent arcing.
Real tragedy even 42 years on the implications of closing this line are still felt today.
The most informative video I've seen on the Woodhead route, thanks for posting Alan and well presented too
I've saved this to watch later. Thank you for posting. 👍
Should never have closed. I travelled with friends on a special from Essendine on the ECML to celebrate the opening of the electrified section in the 1950s and when living in Manchester many years later I travelled with my daughter on the last day of passenger trains on the Woodhead route. Thanks for the excellent video.
yes it was and still is a tragedy , great film , thanks from wigan , lancashire
A bit of Dinting as well
Outstanding post 👏👏🙏
Sad sad Ending
The mainline between Sheffield and Manchester via Woodhead needs to be re-opened to match the Transpennine Route Upgrade between Leeds and Manchester. According to National Grid the high voltage cables are not an issue regarding reusing the tunnel for electric trains.
Couldn't agree more. Rather than all the expensive and wasted effort on HS2 the entire Great Central route should have been reopened/realigned. All the way from the South East to Manchester and beyond to link with the WCML and Liverpool docks.
You are absolutely correct. HS2 is a complete nonsense. It is ridiculous for a country supposedly strapped for cash to be constructing a high speed line as a priority before optimising and upgrading and developing with electrification the existing network.
Compared to the enormous cost of HS1 and HS2 it is cheap and technically straight forward to reinstate the mainline from Hadfield to Penistone.
Correct, but government, businesses, and accountants, don't see from that perspective.
That's the silly world we live in.
... it could be made to pay if they do desired it to be.
@@alanspencer7668
This video is incredible so many fond memories and such a short sighted thing to close
That was a beautifully engineered line. It's disgraceful how railway infrastructure is treated. Unfortunately, the same thing occurs here in the United States. Watching those freights hauled by the electrics was like watching a beautifully designed and well oiled machine operating.
Very reliable and rugged.
A Degenerate Global Overworld criminal class setting the agenda
Aside from the loss of the majority of the Great Central further south - which was already engineered to a loading gauge suitable for modern megabox containers - the closure of this alternative corridor between Greater Manchester and Sheffield was IMO the greatest misstep of “Reshaping Britain’s Railways”. Even worse was the failure to protect the right of way by handing-over the later Woodhead bore to the CEGB to be used as a transmission cable route. Yes, the uneconomic branches needing trimming back was sensible but the abject failure to plan for further growth in the containerised freight sector - which had its own chapter in the report - and its need of well-engineered direct routes to ports was shortsighted at best and downright foolhardy at worst. Ah, Blighty; complacent, always run for now, claiming to be building for the future but usually for a future which never pans-out. And now haemorrhaging money on a vanity high-speed rail project that Britain doesn’t want or need and realistically cannot afford. Great job, leaders!
Part of the price we pay for Narcissistship in place of Leadership!
Yes, scrapping a major route from London the the industrial north was criminal, especially since even the MSLR/GCR had the foresight to build it to the Berne loading gauge!
@@royfearn4345 This is an often repeated myth. The Berne loading gauge wasn't defined until 1912, long after the last mainline built by the MSLR/GCR was opened. However, the London Extension was built to a very generous yet smaller loading gauge.
Yes, and now these lunatic politicians have scrapped HS2 north of Birmingham.
Spent many hours watching the electrics on the Woodhead route. I lived in Droylsden and used to frequent Fairfield Station, Guide Bridge etc. I used to be able to see the electrics from the fourth floor of Openshaw Technical College when I was a student there.
I bought this on dvd back in the day.
The ridiculous mindset that closed the route is still running the transport strategy in 'Modern Britain' today. They allowed the Woodhead tunnel to be repurposed meaning the route will never reopen
Absolutely soul destroying
Superb video on the late lemented wood head route it was a crime that it was closed of all the videos I have seen this is brilliant 😊
Excellent video. The Woodhead Line was part of the inspiration for my railway modelling. I am sure that the bean-counters felt satisfied, but the closure was nothing short of a complete waste.
My dad used to work on the Woodhead Line and drove those locos. I remember him telling me about them when I was young.
He's no longer with us but I can't help wondering if, just maybe, he was driving one of those beautiful locos in the film.
I like to think so...
They were very reliable and well liked by the crews including your father god bless him.
How long ago was that
I was a second man at Guide Bridge for a while I was amazed at the drivers knowledge of their locos and routes one chap used to insist I swept the cab before he allowed me to ride with him they were very happy days I left before the line closed and wonder to this day why I did
Fascinating and sad in equal measure. It seems that even the sky shed tears on the last day of operation!. "Nothing less than a tragedy" - how true.
Absolutely criminal what the government has done to the railway's in britain.
A 1500v DC Railway to carry coal across the Pennines seemed even in the 1980s to be a little bit redundant.
The ‘Government’ surely you mean successive governments made of of politicians of different coloured coats!
All politicians have run down the railways and waved the flags for roads. No one bats an eye lid when a six lane motorway is proposed but when its a railway all hell breaks loose!
This line needed massive upgrading of equipment, was more expensive to operate and thanks to the recession was surplus to requirements. The locomotives and electrification equipment were non-standard and life expired and as such were expensive to replace. They couldn't convert it to 25kV AC as the arc distance forc1.5kV DC is only 4 inches whilst 25kV AC needs 11 inches and the Woodhead tunnels couldn't accommodate it. They could accommodate 6.25KV AC but by 1980 we had no locomotives capable 9f running on that voltage as all had either been withdrawn or converted to 25 kV AC only. It was more expensive to shift coal on the Woodhead as each train would required 3 sets of locomotives per train plus bankers as needed. You needed a diesel from the mine to the start of the Woodhead, then the DC locomotive or locomotives to the far end and then another diesel to get the train to Fiddler's Ferry power station. Going by the Hope Valley needed just a diesel for the entire route and no time consuming locomotive changes enroute. Traffic volumes fell during the recession of the late 1970s/early 1980s freeing up capacity on the Hope Valley route and so BR consolidated all traffic from Sheffield to Manchester onto that line.
To my memory, Woodhead was redundant almost as soon as it opened. It’s a fascinating engineering endeavour but it was always going to happen sadly.
Most of what the government does is criminal
@45:25 I was hoping to see the familiar number 5 dice pattern on the Hadfield EMU. I used to catch that train to school.
If only the Woodhead line had been closer to London - I'm sure it would still be operating today.
Great video, probably one of the best I’ve ever seen about the 76’s. it’s just as I remember it. Thanks.
What a brilliant video! Easily the best I have seen of this famous line.
Top video 👍. Where i used to live in Yorkshire near goole was loads of siddings all gone now .plus all the lost power stations. Shame doesnt look the same any more 😢.
Two of the saddest sights in the world are a war cemetery and a locomotive scrap line. Superb film covering what will be remembered for many years hence, as a jewel in BR's crown. Sadly lamented.
Stunning views,video capture very well filmed and narrated...👍🏻
What a shame those 3 mile tunnels were closed utterly stunning engineering to those who built, designed them and also the poor workers that lost their lives building the tunnels.
I've waited years for a documentary like this. I've spotted a few remnants of the line over the last 4 years: an old 1500v DC substation on approach to Guide Bridge from Hyde; the first air shaft for Woodhead 3 on top of the Pass, and my personal favourite, the abandoned signal gantry just beyond Hadfield station. Such a shame to see such a unique line cast away so easily.
I think if the vast part of the woodhead line is still there with the trackbed and key points still there it should be given some serious thought about re opening it. I was dead against it being shut and the big mistake was taking up the track if they’d left it there and just mothballed it we might have a better infrastructure now
great video..brings back memories of visits to Sheffield Victoria around 1969/70/71. 2 episodes stand out .. 1) seeing E26000 Tommy which I think had been reinstated. 2) being allowed in the cab of a 76 as it ran round it's stovk in Victoria Station.
Really enjoyed that Alan. Superb.
Brings back a lot of happy memories, I used to cycle from Huddersfield to Dunford Bridge and Penistone to train spot on many occasions.
It's ironic that you can use it to cycle most of the way to Glossop now !
Fabulous video, thanks for posting it.
Very informative video.
On several occasions I had the EM2 powering the train I was on here in the Netherlands, where they served mainly on the route between Rotterdam and Venlo on the border with Germany.
What amazed me in the video was that while in the Netherlands double heading was not allowed as was thought it would cause a too high voltage drop under the 1500V system there were sometimes 4 class 76 on a train on the Woodhead route.
This can be due to the fact that the class 76 did not have a really high power output, it had 1300hp continuous and 1800hp max, where the Dutch class 1200 from 1951 had 3000hp max and the class 1600 from 1980 had 6300hp max.
The reason the Dutch Railways didn't want the class 76 was because they were considered obsolete, they were underpowered and too slow for the conveyance of passenger trains, the EM1 was designed as a goods locomotive with the intention to run them double headed. (braking force was superb on them however)
The class EM2 was more up to this task and those were not too old by the time those came up for sale in 1969, also the NS then needed some locomotives quickly as a stopgap measure because there was not yet an answer on the new locomotives which had to be purchased.
That answer came a few years later in the form of the SNCF class 7200.
So sure sighted, the line would be of great use across the Pennines today..
35:52 I live in one of two terraces built of blue engineering brick by the GCR in 1901 to house the workers at Dunford Bridge Station etc, five minutes walk up the hill from Dunford Bridge at Townhead.
I used to watch the 76's heading up and down the Worsbrough incline as a lad back in the late 50's and through the 1960's hauling coal and running back empty, this video pulls all that together very nicely, many thanks for the upload.
I believe it was the only transpennine tunnel gauged for European freight wagons.
If the Woodhead route still existed, it could be electrified at 25kV and be a major trans Pennine route for freight and passengers. This would relieve the existing lines and improve the punctuality of trains. It's not too late! The track bed is still there! Why did you ever close the line?
You’d need a new tunnel for a start.
Why? Just move the power stuff? @@srfurley
@@EllieMaes-Grandad
Move it to where?
Why not the original tunnels? @@srfurley
Woodhead 1,2 and 3 are used by National Grid tocarry power cables. I would think in this day and age, Woodhead 3 could be used again for trains if National Grid were told to re-site the the cable they controversially installed in that tunnel. Although 1 and 2 would need work,National Grid with the money they make could invest in sorting those tunnels out for power cables thus freeing up 3, which was bored for the overhead lines. Unfortunately the government's, both past and present have no inclination to do anything which is a shame considering the track bed is there and only needs reinstating between Penistone and Hadfield
What a wonderful and informative film! "Progress" always brings sadness, though, and this is a tragic story. How ridiculous to see a 40, a "modern", mediocre and stinky diesel, towing away the efficient, cleaner 76s to be cut up by Booth's of Rotherham. I've just seen that DB have brought 92029 back into service, so there is some hope.
A sad but memorable record of a badly missed part of the British Railways system now just a memory 😥
Many thanks Alan. I remember vividly pulling up the window just before the Tunnel to avoid the smoke, and soon after watching in awe as we flashed by after electrification. About 20+ years ago the gates were open, so My Dad and I were able to walk in to the old tunnels at Dunford Bridge
Thank you for an absolutely wonderful video - I loved the Woodhead and took as many snaps of it as I could!
I remember when i got into railways in 77 as a trainspotting 12 year old , going to Reddish and i found rows and rows of class 76s scrapped . Class 40 021 Ivernia is the image forlorn scrapped has haunted my head all my life as the only named EE type 4 i never had for haulage.
A fascinating and sad to see these routes being shut down, and any hope of restoring them scattered to the wind, as they sell off the track bed to developers/land owners, ensuring future use impossible. Men's livelyhoods and communities being snuffed out by the "uneconomical" argument put forward by those who profited most. This is where the capitalist face shows its uncaring side in sharp relief.
Ernest Marple of Marple Ridgeway shut them down by putting a stooge in charge, Dr beeching an ici chemical engineer. Road open for his family firm to build motorways ,!
100% agree. Starved BR of investment while making a fortune in road transport
Woodhead route closed in '81. Marples was dead and Beeching was retired.
The line was shut due to not being economically feasible to operate during a recession.
Thank you station master. That would have been true for the whole economy, and beeching was part of the same problem, in that the Conservative party trashes and loots Britain, and so did Blair. During thatcher the tilting train was introduc
Trying to say Thatcher trashed the world beating tilting train as part of the destruction of Britain.
@@thestati0nmaster579 Recessions are only temporary setbacks . . .
Quite simply the best video I’ve ever seen about the line.
Great "then and now" style presentation at the beginning. Four 76s on one coal train ! . How sorely do we need this line today? Maybe a totally up to date view in the same order could be made ?
This reminds me of the Railscene VHS videos I subscribed to in the 1980's. I'm in the US and to me in the 1980's the UK was gricer heaven.
i remember sitting in the beer garden at the Stanhope Arms, Dunford Bridge in the mid 1960s watching these electric locomotives passing by.A great trip out from our home in Wakefield.
A group of us from Oughtibridge used to travel to Penistone every school day in the 1950s. Originally we had a C-13, generally shunting backwards, pulling 3 coaches. Eventually the C-13s were replaced which these electric engines. When I got into form 6 at PGS, Beeching removed first the passenger service, then the freight service. I spent many hours walking from Penistone station to the grammar school.......
Its time to reopen this line. The A628 over Woodhead is still the mess it always was. In the US, we would have 4-laned it years back.
I inspect bridges in Tyrone area, I could cry when we come across such excellent built railway structures doing nothing but holding up u roads.
Still no railway in Tyrone or Fermanagh .... shocking
Should never have been closed perfect for todays High Speed line over the Pennines!
Great vid . Very interesting and informative. Maybe a Fleet of 'Kestrels' would have helped . 😁👍
Would have liked to have seen something on the mechanics of the old Class 76 trains. How big were the motors and how were they controlled. Was the DC line voltage supplied by Mercury arc rectifiers?
No rectifiers were harmed in this film! It was DC, and the loco had DC resistance controlled current. 1500 line volts, 1500 max traction motor voltage with all resistances cut out. The 110vDC for auxiliary machine like compressors and control was provided by a 1500/110v motor generator set.
A Sad loss from a Bygone Era ,Name and Shame those in Westminster for what they proposed to this beautiful route ,Just awful that this was the way it was . Beautiful Video but just shameful .
Especially BR Decision Makers at the highest level proposing Closures .
Great video. Two questions:
1. Why was OHLE so high?
2. It seems that every available pantograph was in use, yet nowadays it is usually one per train.
Thanks for any answers.
The OHLE varied in height. Often, it was high due to the need to avoid structures such as coaling plants/water towers which were still in use when the 76s/EM1s were introduced. They would also be set high at stations. The use of both pantographs helped current collection in all weathers. Today's pantographs are that much more efficient.
In the United states the woodhead line Hadfield to Sheffield Victoria can be compared to the MILW Mainline Seattle,WA to Miles City,MT Electric Sections Seattle to Othello,WA and Avery,ID to Harlowton, MT was that they were electrified and prove that Electric locomotives are better than steam and diesels in long tunnels. For the British Railways management they should have went and upgraded it to 25kv 50hz and build a connecting curve to MML Sheffield Station that way Classes 800 802 810s can use Woodhead Tunnel followed by the Class 99s and diesel locos the Class 60 tugs
I started on the railway 1980 at Guide Bridge as a second man or the proper title Driver's assistant. Did a lot on wood head line going to Tinsley plus wath with the Bo Bo class 76 had to walk along frame to put up a red disc over a white light for a tail light if going back light engine.
Regarding no use for the Class 76 here in the Netherlands: at that time, NS was receiving their Class 1600, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_Class_1600. Many of these and of the succeding Class 1700 have also been scrapped. - I should note, that NS sold their freight division to DB, and the final act of loco-hauled passenger trains in the Netherlands has begun. Freight trains are now generally hauled by multi-current locos (and some diesels, like the Class 66).
At least the EM2 fleet was sold to NS and became the 1500 class, although that was only 7 locos.
@@mikeuk4130 Only 6 in service, 1 for parts. However, they surely were welcome. As I understand it, the one remaining here in the Netherlands is in demand for special trains. - However, the NS class 1200 (designed by Baldwin) seems even more iconic.
Class 76 locos were tested in Essex at the time the Woodhead line wasn't ready. Only when the electrification of important sections were completed did the EM1 BoBos move north.
My uncle filmed the last days of the route on cine film,sadly the films were thrown away shortly after his death 12 years ago.
Got this on DVD.
The one I remember during our Train Spotting days when on a Day Tourer Ticket 27005 Minerva.
Excellent video and sad, thanks 😢
National Grid have stated that the high voltage cables are clipped to the side of the tunnel, and there is no reason why single or duble tracks cannot be installed for trains. Even if the tunnels were unexpectedly found to be unsuitable for trains, then the cables could be relocated to a smaller cable tunnel at minimal cost, as in the London area.
I wonder if the Woodhead line used larger glass mercury arc rectifiers or if they had the vacuum pump/tank type.
My guess is they would have used rotary converters.
This film is obviously quite old now. Anyone know its production date and producer? I am so grateful that someone had the foresight to record the magnificent achievements of our grandfathers.
IMHO We should curse successive governments for their bungling mismanagement of national resources.
Memorial movie for this glorious line of UK.
Alan would it be possible to have a copy of your video? We have just got a cab from the Science Museum in Manchester for the South Yorkshire Transport Museum in Rotherham. It would be nice to show it. Thanks David.
Can you mail me please? Email address: spencerag1948@yahoo.co.uk
When the line was electrified, someone realised that the tunnels were too narrow to accommodate the wires and gantries. A new
Woodhead Tunnel was given the go-ahead in 1947, at a time when money was being spent on rebuilding after six years of war. It was a disgrace that the tunnel was in use for fifteen years only for passenger trains. A second Thurgoland Tunnel had to be built, but this was less of a problem, as the tunnel is only just over 300 yards long.
It couldn't be converted to 25 kV AC due to being too small. You need at least 11 inches of clearance to avoid arcing of 25 kV AC.
@@neiloflongbeck5705single line?
@@jhuc2869 that might have been possible at the cost of reducing the line's capacity. Lowering the capacity would mean the line would become less desirable and not worth of electrification.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 Most freight would have been diesel hauled. Bi-directional line in one of old tunnels for pathing of that.
@@jhuc2869 then no need to convert to AC from DC. However, with spare capacity on the Hope Valley line due to the recession of the late 1970s/early 1980s there was no need to retain this line at that time.
A bi-derctional line reduces the line's capacity no matter what the locomotive types are.
I’ve got that dvd of this route too
But do you know what music is it at the beginning of the clip
Beautiful line, but once coal declined its fate seemed to sealed. I don’t even know if now, in 2023, there would be enough demand to justify its reopening, however unlikely that is anyway with the main tunnel gone with electricity cables
Got Rid of electricity trains W H Y
So did a quick check on the AL1-5 AC electric locos and they were all capable of 6.25 kv running. That said, they couldn't be spared as demand for the WCML was so great. Source Wikipedia.
One of the reasons given by BR for closing the Woodhead route was to cut down the number of OHL systems in use to just 25 kv. This was the same reason given for converting existing 6.25 kv to 25kv.
"Tommy" was the nickname given to British soldiers by civilians on the European continent.
Did they used to have 2 x 76s at the front and two more at the rear (see 2.57) ?
Sadly, a familiar story.
for about 50 years, I believed that the 'woodhead' locos were made by E.M.I. as I didn't know that their class was "E. M 1" ( not EMI !)
Is it me or is the height of the OHL here much higher than eg: the WCML?
It varied in height across the route and was often set high to avoid original structures such as coaling plants and water towers. It tended to be high at stations as well.
Wonderfull film..but such a sad theme
Woodhead could be played ob Train Simulator..
Sad. Forget HS2 put this back
14:55 Marylebone to Manchester express?
When we used to make things in this country...
Its so obvious to a dumbo like me, that the only electrified line through the peninnes, was allowed to close and not kept as a reserved route.
Well the electrical equipment was non-standard and in need of replacement pots there was a recession on and a government that wanted better value for money. Mothballing wasn't an option.
@@neiloflongbeck5705 That response begs some obvious questions, absent obvious answers (unless one is a BR employee).
equipment was non-standard ~ on an isolated system, why might that matter?
equipment in need of replacement ~ who defined that need? The equipment worked, so why not maintain it to high standards?
Mothballing wasn't an option ~ undoubtedly it was, but not chosen. Any sound financial / engineering reasons?
PS Political policy at that time was cutting back on industrial capacity, to co-incide with political opinion and philosophy.
Forty years on the consequences are all too apparent.
@@EllieMaes-Grandad 1. Being non-standard it becomes more expensive to maintain as it needs a separate supply chain for spares and as equipment ages and spares get used up the cost of sourcing spares increases. 2. There comes a point were maintenance costs become so high that replacement becomes an option. The life span of any component is defined by the manufacturer. They typically give a guaranteed service life. This as true for the family car as it is for the railways. Both the Woodhead Line and the line from Shildon to Newport were electrified to 1,500V DC and both had it removed as life expired. In the case of the Shildon line it was replaced by steam locomotives as coal was cheap, cheaper than electrification. But unlike the Woodhead the Shildon line was needed for the movement of coal as there was no spare capacity of the ex-Stockton and Darlington line. 3. Mothballing is expensive and the government of the time was looking to reduce public spending. Firstly, you have all the costs of maintenance without any income to offset it against. And you have to do this for an unspecified length of time. You also have to maintain rolling stock sufficient to cover any services you might at some point re-introduce (again this will be for an unspecified length of tine). You need to maintain route knowledge of the train crew (but for how long) or be willing to train new train crew. Or you can do what they did to the Bramley Line in Cambridgeshire, where apart from a small stretch used by a railway Museum the line has been left to Mother Nature to maintain. All of the infrastructure has been left untended. The level crossings have had their rails removed. This line hasn't seen a train in almost 25 years and although their is the political will to reopen the line (primarily by the party that asked Dr Beeching force list of lines to cut), it is unlike to get very far as the line crosses the busy A47 as the road skirts around Wisbech. It too, over 40 years to get a bridge at King's Dyke, a few miles from Wisbech. Anyway, the recession of the late 1970s/early 1980s caused a drop it traffic levels freeing up capacity of the Hope Valley line meant there was no need to retain the Woodhead line.
Yes, 40 years later with a couple of recessions, a couple of financial crises, population growth and changes to how businesses operated prior to Covid-19, the utility of having the the Woodhead Line has returned. But with companies changing the wAy they work post-Covid, how much of that demand could be met with l.onger trains?
Got this on VHS and dvd
23.34 etc Beautifully kept track --compare with anything "mismanaged by NOTWORK RAIL"!!!!
As a freight driver myself, you do talk utter twaddle!
Ah yes, wooden sleepers.
The pinnacle of effective safety and maintenance...
Superb film
Didn't one of the long tunnels have a signal box built in it ?
The 'Up Bore' tunnel did have a signal box built into it in one of the cross passages that had been opened out to accommodate a small recessed signal box (it was located in cross passage/recess number 12).
It was there to signal the up line only & to break up the section on the rising gradient between Woodhead & Dunford Bridge to increase capacity, apparently the signalmen who covered & staffed the tunnel box were given an additional 2d & 6s per week, plus the shifts were only 6 hours at a time.
The operational life of the tunnel signal box wasn't long.
It opened in 1899 but was abandoned & abolished in 1909 due to 'atrocious working conditions'.
Even if this had survived , if it's main freight was coal, it would probably be struggling again today .
Great footage and then/now contrast. Pity about the music.
Tragic that an electrified line should be closed. Backhanders paid to get the use of the tunnels i bet.
I hardly think so. The Grid in those days was owned and controlled by The Central Electricity Generating Board. A government body.
Just ignore the recession.
An electrified line that had a voltage and current unique to that part of the country.
That isn't something you can just flick a switch to fix.
@@thestati0nmaster579 It was fixed on the ex-GER line . . .
@@EllieMaes-Grandad
The line which is the backbone of East Anglia.
The Woodhead route has never had any real importance, only every really being a secondary freight route.
If it were not electrified I would bet a lot of money that it would be a footnote in British Railway history.
1.33 catenary is very high up, 2.03 seems normal. Why?
Gone Completely.
16yrs after electrification!!!
It's a crime the government of the time made a mistake this line needs to be reinstated it would still be viable the amount of freight from hull Immingham and traffic on m62 warrants this instead of having faster routes to London invest that money into reopening this line with the iports that could be connected it would make a vast difference
1:01:32 to the end I wonder if people cry with the sad music.
Why on earth take away an electrified efficient cross pennine route after spending so much money on it?
It doesn't make sense, it would make economic sense if there were intention and purpose to do so.
It could be 25kv OLE compatible by now.
The central northern England East/West route modernised to maximum effect.
A backward step to close it.
A great loss.
🚂👍
Schade um jede bahn