A Missed Opportunity? | Wild Blue Yonder Review and Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Doctor Who continued its 60th anniversary special trilogy with the ambitious and experimental Wild Blue Yonder, seeing The Doctor and Donna face off against evil copies of themselves. But was it good?
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This episode was a big mess and like The Star Beast and all post-2017 episodes, it's ranked negative infinity out of 10
So youre basically just drama shilling now huh.
@@SejhaIsHere I do not know this term
Why is every b***ing lately. The best Who episode in years and now its "A Missed Opportunity?" Its just bad clickbait.
@@purefoldnz3070 It is a touch discerning. 'Missed Opportunity' may be more a more generous sentiment on the surface than some others, but the attitude is what really does it.
Passive aggressive patreon linking, that's one way to go about it.
i can see the complaints about the special effects but overall this epsiode is to me some of the best doctor who we’ve ever had
Yeah
I didn't care about any of that. If I were in that situation, I'd be terrified, and the actors sold it.
I wouldnt say one of the best but it's definitely a league above 60th and series 14 in general
"Just look at crab-walking David Tennant and tell me it is scarier than it is comedic. It all emphasizes how this episode doesn't seem to know whether to be a terrifying 'Silence in the Library'-style horror story or a fun and comical schlock-fest like 'Unicorn and the Wasp'."
I think you might have missed the point of the episode. Just listen to Donna and the Doctor's discussions of the song "Wild Blue Yonder." Ms. Bean finds the song jolly, but it is a war song. Just like the Doctor says later on about Donna, people (and episodes) can be two things at once. This episode is equal parts horrifying and hilarious--two things at once.
In my opinion, this is quintessential Doctor Who. It doesn't break or subvert the mould, like ‘Heaven Sent’ or ‘Midnight’, but instead emphasizes and pays homage to the best aspects of the show. Doctor Who is campy, it's scary, it's funny, it's heartfelt, it's alien, it's weird, and sometimes it has shit CGI.
Overall, one of my favorite episodes. I've already watched it three times.
The best comment on this video. You said it all.
I also think the goofyness of it is representing how the no things are trying to mess with them. They aren't actually trying to kill them just scare them and they're enjoying tormenting them!
Agree
we are in 2023, youtubers have better greenscreen effects than that nowdays, it was such a shit cgi effect that broke all immersion, there is a clear difference if you tell me a university film team did a film and had shit cgi vs if avengers has shit cgi.
@@gamikhan9087The whole argument is subjective though? Some people like the way things look and others don't
I didn't see Donna's so-called "fake-out" death that way at all. We as the audience know she'll be fine. But she doesn't. We're seeing her near-death experience, not a fake-out death. I wouldn't be surprised if this plays a part in why she doesn't stick around after the specials. Sort of like Dan's departure - she loves the Doctor and their adventures, but she doesn't want to risk her life like that anymore because she now has too much to live for back home.
Perfectly summarised, we know Donna pre-Meta Crisis would have become Clara, always wanting to continue and be like the Doctor, but now she has so much to live for at home, her world view has changed dramatically
I actually thought they were going to leave for her for a second. Obviously, the doctor won't but for a second I was genuinely worried for her 😅
I actually for a moment thought that she would really die and we'd be stuck with the notDonna and the Doctor would have to convince her to become proper Donna. That way this episode would actually have some meaning. OR at least have Donna be mad at the Doctor for longer than a moment for picking the wrong one.
I honestly don't know what he expects.
This is coming from a guy who liked Flux, though.
@@TPH250290Don't ever feel bad for liking Flux. I loved that series. ☺️💛🖤✨
Not a fake out death to me. On a narrative level it's used to communicate just how complete that copy was, enough to trick even the Doctor. The episode constantly reminds us that the Doctor gets things wrong, and this is a harrowing example. We knew Donna would be safe, but God damn did Catherine Tate do a fantastic job of her crying
I do think you are missing a lot of the points this episode is presenting. While the fake out Donna death is done for the second episode in a row it still works for her character here since shes staring death right in the eye with the Doctor making the mistake of taking the wrong Donna. She looks absolutely terrified knowing she cant do anything plus she thinks she wont see her family again and she'll be replaced by the fake Donna taking her place.
Here's what i will say on the villains they are trying to get into shapes of the people they are copying so therefore body parts might seem a little stretched at first but once they start to copy them more and more they stabilize. I think that was the intention they were going for but sure it looks goofy. You really seem to hate CGI cause the ship doesn't even look that bad but yet you rip it apart a little too much.
I really like how The Doctor opens up about the Flux from the last series so it can actually show the damage he's still thinking about. Russel gave the situation a few lines and it was more exploration than Chibbnal did.
I wouldn't even call it a fakeout. Donna thinks she will die, and she could have died, but the audience may not believe that. Especially since bringing a fake Donna back would lead to a long character development with that character evolving to make it worthwhile, and there are not the episodes available for that.
I enjoyed this episode more than the star beast. Felt like an actual throwback episode. Despite the goofy CGI, it felt like a well rounded episode whereas the star beast felt like a expostion dump with some pretty cringe inducing dialogue.
100% agree.
They only attempted to make out the dr was gay once, but apart from that, they didn’t try and force their agenda down our throats.
It reminded me of Midnight.
A creature that we don’t know what itis or where it came from.
All it knows is to copy and destroy!
And we never find out more. The dr destroys it and that’s that.
No tardis, just the dr and his brain.
100% agree
Yeah, absolutely. Even beyond the cringe dialogue, it failed in so many other aspects. Like how UNIT sent a wheelchair-bound scientist to investigate a rocket which's entrance is quite far off the ground. Or how you don't get to know Beep at all so the "twist" is barely a twist. Or the many lazy handwaves to explain why the story even happens, such as the lottery money, or "letting go". Star Beast was down there with some of Chibnall's worst imo.
For me it’s 2 for 2 garbage episodes although Starbeast was especially bad. There’s very little rewatchability and always feels like your watching an ai version of doctor who. Very little creativity and atmosphere, doesn’t feel like a real world anymore
Dude the guy who’s made the video has already spent like 3 minutes just complaining about the CGI 😂 I haven’t even finished the video yet and I’m already laughing my ass off at it
i saw a theory that the tardis used the hads because the not-things would have copied the tardis, and came back at the very last second because by then the not-things would definitely not have enough time to copy her. imagine what could have happened if we had a not-tardis, thatd be something else
Now that would be cool to see and would be extremely creepy. The tardis is smart off leaving when it did. 😂
Personally, I feel you were really hard on this episode. I accept your opinions but I can't agree with about 90% of them and can't address which ones without going on a rant.
But I will say that The TARDIS returning isn't a coincidence or a Deus Ex Machina, she's a Time Machine... She can measure timelines looking a little bit into the future and realise that the creature isn't gonna make it so she knows it's safe to return and save The Doctor... And she even tells him that the Donna he takes is a fake due to the scan on her screens before he activates the slide.
Plus, theres the idea the not-things had gotten so realistic the tardis couldn't identify them as a threat, hence why fake Donna could get inside without the tardis leaving again. But I agree the time machine aspect is by itself a perfect explanation, one I wish they'd use more, especially when the show has them in the tardis, with a time limit
That's what defeats the purpose of the tardis "knowing" the outcome. It implies the tardis needed a specific trigger to know it was safe to come back
I felt he was being a bit needlessly pedantic and cynical in his Star Beast review, but this was even worse. I honestly thought this was the best episode of Doctor Who we've had since series 10. Complaining about fake out deaths and deus ex machina saves? This *is* Doctor Who we're talking about. That shit is practically part of the show's DNA. It feels weird to place this show under such a scrupulous lens when it's really just meant to be a fun, escapist romp through time and space. That's not to say the show is above criticism, but I'd rather analyze big picture stuff than moan about poor CGI and goofy effects.
Yeah the idea The Tardis returning at the perfect moment makes total sense, as The Doctor says “And a Time Machine would know!” and it ain’t just that it’s a highly intelligent living thing there’s no plot issue there.
My theory is that the threat was actually just the copy of the doctor. Mainly because the tardis only returned when it knew that copy was going to die. It seemly didn’t care about the Donna copy. Probably because the doctor copy would be able to fly the tardis and travel the stars. The Donna copy was seemly ‘locked in’ to a degree.
Donna's fake out works. It goes for too long, in a three part special we never thought possible in the first place. To think an old Doctor would return is unheard of until it happened. Doctor Who and Russell are asking their audience to suspend their disbelief. The fact that Donna's fake out dragged for so long made it so nerve wracking. I KNOW they won't do it. They would NEVER. Then why is it taking so long? I think at a certain point, you don't want to suspend your own disbelief.
My thoughts exactly. My mindset basically just went through a transition of "They wouldn't."
"They absolutely wouldn't."
".....Would they?"
And they gave me just enough time and focus to get to that "Would they"?
Literally that was my reaction made our heart race a lil more cos I was like what are they acc going to ???!!
The return of an old face of The Doctor was alluded to that it was going to happen way back during the 50th anniversary. In the closing moment of The day of the Doctor, when Tom Baker returned and told the Eleventh incarnation that he will be visiting SOME old faces before becoming The Curator in his future.
I completely agree I also think it’s going to play massively in the third special, I haven’t watched it yet but my guess is Donna will live and she’s going to choose to stay behind and not go with the doctor because of this moment, because this was the moment she she generally thought she was dead, she really thought the doctor was not gonna come back and she was dead and that made her realize she doesn’t wanna go with him anymore and take that chance That’s my theory let’s see if it’s true
Tbh, RTD has been asking us to suspend our disbelief a little too much and in a very short time frame lately. This would have been a good place to stop, but they went further with it with the bigeneration concept next episode. I think it’s time to stop the gimmicks and give us a genuine episode with dramatic action and good resolutions and keep the more experimental stuff more sparse so that we can integrate them to the show’s mythology more normally.
Honestly I REALLLLY loved this episode and found it to be much more enjoyable than the first one. I enjoyed the body horror (I found it creepy scary and I'm 25), the "fake out," and honestly, the funky effects were perfectly doctor who in my eyes. Definitely will be watching this multiple times ❤
I'm decades older but totally agree. Nice to see someone who can confirm it's not just us older fans.
While we disagree on this episode overall, I see some of your points. In the end, I think this episode was so fresh to a lot of people because it did a lot of daring stuff that they've not done recently: there's next to no cast other than Tennant and Tate, the doctor is stripped of ALL his ways out. Including his language understandings, making him so vulnerable so hes not a Messiah figure this time around. I think it's the best reviewed Who we've seen in ages. Donna's fakeout was far better than any given disney movie.
That doesnt really work when the tardis suddenly appears to save the day, and the fact that the doctor knew how to operate the spaceship pretty quickly with no real explanation on how.
@@gamikhan9087It's implied ... the doctor generally... knows how to operate most technology?
@@thatokperson Because he understands every languague, knowing how to operate something is easier if you know the languague, meanwhile it is almost impossible if you dont know it, it becomes more and more impossible as more difficult the thing you want to operate is, and believe me, a giant spaceship is quite difficult.
This episode was actually really well done, i dunno what this is about
You sir are ignorant, this non-canon episode is a big mess
Harbo kinda has a hateboner for CGI I noticed so he's critical of any of iut
@@craytherlaygaming2852he has a rightful hate boner for *bad* Cgi. And for 2023 the effects were laughable
You madam are an ignorant cu*t. Just because you didn't like it, doesn't mean others can't.@@mattthesilent777RED
@@HubboFilmsit's doctor who. good cgi is, quite frankly, anti who. Part of why the Chibnall era was so off putting to me was because it didn't look like Who at all
I love villains like this which develop and learn from humanity. Not perhaps the over the top goofiness we get here but, yeah the ones that learn from us are genuinely terrifying. They weirdly reminded me of the things from Flatline who are learning how to exist in three dimensions, as the no-things learn about object permanence etc and adapt to it
I like the idea of the Chibnal era being the Doctor’s new PTSD.
Certainly had a similar effect on me!
The new era will be cathartic forThe Doctor and for us all.
I hated that scene because ironically the Chibnall era is like PTSD for me, for only that reason though the actual execution was brilliant.
Huh? This was easily one of the best episodes in a long time. Does your opinion of CG completely overshadow your perspective of the episode's writing and dialogue?
It being the best in a long time isn’t saying much…..
@@wardy6224 I am including some of mofatt's last episodes too
I fail to see the good writing. It had bland villains and the same exact plot device where they don’t who’s who played out 3 times. Felt like a lazy derivative filler episode with no stakes
@@liibaanyusuf3245 that Who’s Who moment we’re done perfectly I was having a hard time telling which one was the fake during some of those moments, also the writing was amazing the doctor having a breakdown, the whole episode focusing on something can be two and this episode is in fact two things a horror and a comedy, also the many unanswered questions left for a future episode to be made, the mystery everything was amazing
At leas for me, the Tardis magically returning does make some sense as the explosion wouldn't be an issue for the Tardis (being super resistant) but at this point its system would have calculated the inevitable termination of this unknown threat, so it would be the earliest safest point to return.
The threat was that the not-things could copy the TARDIS and use the copy to go anywhere in time and space and cause destruction that would reverberate through the timeline of the universe.
Easily one of the best episodes of Who we’ve had in a long time, definitely gonna go down as one of the best.
Agree
I genuinely could not disagree more. I feel like this wasn't just a good episode, it's genuinely one of the best episodes of the entire show. Donna's fake-out death works not only because it lasts long enough to feel believable, but because it's convincingly real to the characters, especially Donna; even though she does end up getting saved, we do see that both she and the Doctor are scarred by it and they don't immediately go back to normal. The effects in general are really good, both CGI and practical, especially when compared to DW's effects track record even in the modern era, and even then they aren't the whole basis for the Not-Things' horror; the horror doesn't come solely from seeing creatures imitating the Doctor and Donna contorting their bodies in unnatural ways, it's the fact that there are creatures imitating the Doctor and Donna who are trying to trick the real Doctor and Donna into thinking that they're the real ones for sinister purposes, which genuinely landed really well. The TARDIS' disappearance and reappearance build off of in-series canon which is itself reiterated and explained at the beginning of the episode to set up for the ending, and even then its reappearance doesn't take away from the conflict of the episode, as the plot and emotional climaxes of the episode aren't just about whether or not the Doctor and Donna are able to escape in time, they're about whether or not the REAL Doctor and Donna will escape. Even it being not a "traditional" anniversary doesn't mean it's bad, especially since 1. it being an experimental, complex, psychological sci-fi horror is actually in keeping with a lot of the show's traditions; 2. even if it isn't a "traditional" anniversary episode in the context of it explicitly connecting to previous canon and building off it (which this episode technically still does, with the return of the HADS and Wilf, as well as how the Timeless Child and Flux arcs explicitly heavily impact the Fourteenth Doctor's characterization), prior anniversary seasons (10, 20, 25) also had non-explicitly-traditionally-anniversary stories; and 3. even if they can be really fun and meaningful, not every anniversary special needs to be a massive continuity-rich cameo-fest, because it's not the only way to celebrate a series like this. The only thing I didn't like was the "mavity" joke, and even then it's not enough to take me out of or turn me off to this episode. All in all, I genuinely think that episode is a great episode, a great celebration of the show and its history, and easily could be considered an all-time "modern classic" episode in the same vein as Blink, The Doctor's Wife or Heaven Sent.
The TARDIS returning makes complete sense to me, external explosions barely cause a dent on that thing, the threat was the doubles possibly gaining control and so the TARDIS came back when it knew it was safe to.
You mentioned the opening section feeling a little bit drawn out and padded, but I personally enjoyed that it takes its time and lets the narrative breath rather than rushing to meet the bad guys of the episode. It helped sell the slow approach that would later be paid off in the climax, with the reveal the whole ship and all those prior set pieces and mysteries were intentionally slow as part of the captain's plan.
I'd also disagree that the Not-things weren't effective body horror. The Flesh and Miss Evangelista's data ghost have done similar effects in past episodes and both have been notable for how much they scared people (particularly children), including their stretched arms/jaws and distorted faces. It can definitely come off as goofy depending on your taste, especially in moments of heavy CGI, but it never detracted from the experience for me personally.
The TARDIS coming back makes sense to me - The bomb was never a threat (the TARDIS survives the direct blast upon returning), the problem was the Not-things potentially taking control of the TARDIS (especially when they didn't have a fixed form yet), which was no longer an issue once the Not-things deaths were guaranteed thanks to the Doctor and Donna's actions in the episode. This is also keeping in mind that the TARDIS specifically came back to the Doctor and the Donna No-thing only had a chance to potentially get into the TARDIS because the Doctor then went to save Donna after that point (not that it succeeded regardless).
Other comments already mentioned the fake-out death so I won't delve into it too much, just that I agree that when immersed in the episode many genuinely believed she could die due to how the scene presented itself.
I think you put it best in your immediate thoughts: People will always expect a hate it or love it approach to episodes, so even if you think the episode was just alright (and still above average) it'll be viewed as a lot more negative than you actually menat it. I imagine I'll fit into the camp of this being my favourite of the 3 specials once the next episode comes out, as you predicted most will, and I'm looking forward to more as this episode set a good standard for the series to return to on a consistent basis.
Say what you like about this episode, it's pure RTD. Dude built up some genuinely excellent creepy tension through a minimalist situation and dialogue straight out of "Midnight", and then, boom, big stoopid arms. Major Ron Mueck vibes from the FX, which I think hit just the right level of bizarre. There's probably ways they could have been creepier or more horrific, but I don't think that was the intent here. It's not like they could've gone back to subtle.
It's funny though, because I would totally be on board for a properly horror driven Not-Things story, where their errors in replication *are* more subtle. Could be a fun little parody of AI art, where you have to count their fingers to know that they're not human.
I always enjoy your opinions and I’m still sceptical of RTD taking over DR who forever this was enjoyable ( there are better episodes etc ) but Tate and tennant are always a joy to watch
Got a few Mari Lewyd vibes from the horse skull in December aswell
@@selmaunsley6683 - Huh. I'm... shocked that anyone's noticed my opinions! =)
So far I've avoided any promotional stuff for the new Who, but a Mari Lewyd sounds interesting =)
Personally i found them hilarious and scary at the same time
100% agree and that’s why I think we will see the not things again, imu theory is to many questions were left unanswered so I think wried timy wimy stuff will happen and a future doctor will meet the captain of this ship and his crew and it will end with the captain sacrificing himself by driving the ship into a worm hole
@@selmaunsley6683 Made me think of the Horsehead Nebula.
I honestly loved it. The Not-Things birthed from the Flux's fuckery, the ridiculous CGI alterations of Donna and the Doctor, the incredibly strong fake out tying into earlier dialogue, it all was so good.
I also have a theory. Given this was Donna's second fake out death, I'm betting that the next special is gonna have another fake out death that turns out to be her actual death. At least that's what I would do.
Well dalek caan’s prophecy never happened so a death is still in the cards
I wish that'll happen, but I don't think RTD would dare. We're probably gonna get another of his mushy fix it happy-endings.
I also have a theory, this ep left so many unanswered questions and I think a future ep will come back to this ship were the doctor will go into past and meet the captain of this ship
@@a_waff1es_0pinion76 That would be interesting.
If the Not-Things were birthed by the Flux, then it doesn't make any sense.
The Flux happens because of the Doctor being the Timeless Child, and the Timeless Child is a rewriting of his past by the Toymaker.
However, the Toymaker only entered the Doctor's Universe, because the Doctor met the Not-Things and casted the salt at the edge of the Universe.
It just doesn't work.
Gotta say, the Fourteenth Doctor's bit about the Flux was great, not just because it's a well-acted scene, but because it felt like the first time that the mavity of that situation has actually been acknowledged. During the last episode of that arc and the specials that followed it, I was honestly confused as to whether there'd been some kind of reset button push that I'd missed, because they barely seemed to want to mention it. Half the universe being destroyed should be a big deal, even if it's probably not going to be.
Haha mavity
@@a_waff1es_0pinion76cringe
I really enjoyed this. I thought the copies of The Doctor and Donna were uncanny but in a very creepy way imo. Yeah the CG wasn’t great, but I found it strangely worked to their favor imo for the uncanniness of it all. Also man seeing Wilf at the end almost made me tear up. I’m honestly just glad we got at least one scene with him. Rip Bernard Cribbins
I saw someone online posit that The 'Boneless' from Flatline, the creature from Midnight and the 'Not-things' as they called themselves in this episode are all different creatures that evolved similarly to survive in nothing, like the Doctor Who space version of Carcinization, which makes sense. This is the third creature in NewWho like this, and I believe I've heard a similar one even in old Doctor Who.
Also, I definitely liked this episode more then Star Beast. That one was fine, but this one just felt like a more classic episode of Doctor Who which I feel was the point. A traditional adventure sandwiched in between two insane stories, a sort of breather before the inevitable chaos of The Giggle.
I think I have a good idea of the Classic Who villain you’re referring to…possibly the Mara from both Kinda and Snakedance? That’s honestly my favorite villain from the Fifth Doctor’s era that I really wish would make a New-NuWho comeback (that’s gonna get awkward after a while 😛😅😵💫😅)…the Mara was the one that used dreams to enter the physical realm by taking over a person’s mind, usually Tegan’s, then would transfer to another host to act out it’s evil…😬
@@christopheralthouse6378 found it, the Sound Creature from Schzero
@@ZekromAndYugiAndDrago123 Surely you don’t mean Marcus Scarman from ‘Pyramids of Mars’ do you? Wait, no…that doesn’t make sense as he was human…once…😬
Aw man. I guess I can't expect both of us to like the same things always. It's one of those times where we have to examine what we're willing to take at face value. As a video essayist, your eyes aren't looking to be deceived. It's all about breaking apart each element and reviewing them. The threshold isn't really something we control. We either believe it or we don't. But i think it should be made clearer what's what. Because imagine that the corridor was the best cgi you've ever seen. The huge monsters and their melting faces were as picturesque as you can get it, would your review change?
Conceptually, the Doctor and Donna in a big empty sterile looking hallway is creepy. "My arms are too long" is "Are you my mummy?" levels of creepy. Long arms that can't be controlled is creepy. Huge monster versions of you chasing you down a hallway as they lose their forms is nightmarish and i swear ive had that dream as a kid. I feel that the story was soooo good. But it will be dragged down if you can't be a kid again and let it wash over you as is.
When I was watching this episode, the potential for Donna to die, tied to her thoughts of her family back home, suggested to me that they are foreshadowing her leaving the Doctor. Up until now, Donna has been someone who feels changed by the Doctor and misses her time with him (having first made that discover after The Runaway Bride and then being forced to lose everything she held dear about her adventures with him in Journey's End). This episode shows that her life has moved beyond being defined by her experiences with the Doctor. Even without him around, she has changed many of the things that were wrong with her life and she is no longer thinking just of her own need for self fulfilment. She no longer "needs" to be with the Doctor in order to understand her own self-worth, and she has others who need her too. And that's why I believe she will choose to remain on earth at the end of The Giggle.
For me the wonky special effects work because these arent people but, conceptual entities. I like to think that they actually looked like that
Same
I respect you sticking by your guns and calling it as you see it, even knowing that you're going against the grain here. But also, this episode was an absolute banger. Best in years. Personally, I couldn't care less about the bad CGI. What matters in an episode like this are the writing and acting, which were fantastic.
Besides what is Doctor Who without bad CGI? Bad CGI is about as much as an institution in Doctor Who as the Tardis herself😁
I cant imagine not liking this episode, I was absolutely stunned
I think if you’re expecting something akin to the day of the doctor for a 60th anniversary special you’re going to be disappointed.
What this ultimately was, and what this show desperately needed after the past 4 years, was an anniversary celebration of what people loved about the show (especially the reboot show that was in real danger of cancellation) That means characters that easily rank top 3 doctor and companion just having a basic adventure where they get lost in space, poke around just to see what’s out there, and encounter something weird. Combine that with some actual humor and fascinating character work, and that ultimately is the core of why I fell in love with this show in the first place and why I’d rank this as a top 3 RTD episode
While I think RTD went off the rails with Journey’s End and the specials, every episode he wrote for series one is better than this
@@tobylerone4285personally on rewatch the 2-4 seasons of tenant are a huge step backwards to the initial first series . Arcs never reached the heights of bad wolf. Going off world worked only a few times . Too much padding and filler. Every episode of series 1 was crafted to making roses life or Deepening the doctors mystery . Reestablishing villains to there proper fundamentals was done flawlessly . Great commentary on politics at the time. It’s such a diamond in the rough in this huge series. I can really only point to series 8 and 10 capturing similar vibes
@@tobylerone4285I’m going to have to hard disagree about Journey’s End. That was the culmination of his entire era and it was honestly beautiful, man. All of the threads and seeds he’s laid out since the start of his run, in combination with the other series Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures, all dovetail into each other in Turn Left, Stolen Earth and Journey’s End.
It was large and grandiose because it was the farewell of his run. And a celebration of the revival series at that time.
The specials aren’t great in my opinion, but I’ve always seen that year as RTD’s (well earned) victory lap.
@@tobylerone4285completely disagree this ep ranks up there with his best
Thought it was really good, sort of call back to midnight sort of monster.
the cgi was bit iffy but RTD did the clever thing of utilising both David Tennant and Catherine Tates cracking acting skills.
Gravity will likely self correct, because it comes from a Latin word for weight, which predates Newton, and we'd have to change words like Gravitas to Mavitas, and The Doctor even slipped and said Gravity near the end, showing that the word is returning etc etc.
I took that as the Doctor being unaffected by the change but Donna is. When Donna first mentions mavity, the Doctor gives her a funny look
It’s a *mess*? You sure?
Part of camp is that the monstrous and the funny aren't opposites.
This clash you experience is not universal. It landed for most people. I don't think it's fair to say "it didn't land" it landed for most people.
I recommend we downvote this video. I've always enjoyed his videos, but this one just doesn't sit right with me.
It certainly landed for us!
@@kanton4108I mean only he can really see that and it's not like someone can always have good takes
I agree with him completely.
I loved this episode. First time I disagree with you. There's always a first. Cheers
I completely disagree with you on the visual effects of the no things.
I found it really effective and horrifying! When the not-Doctor mentions the arms being hard to get right, it also immediately made me think of how AI has a terrible time recreating hands.
@@lbud4092 Exactly, also I thought the fake doctor's crab walk was terrifying.
With only 2 actors and the entire story confined to just a few sets (and one big greenscreen room) this really reminded me of the episodes like Midnight and a lot of Season 1 where everything took place in one location and was as budget-friendly as possible. Hopefully this means that The Giggle will be very high-quality, with most of the budget (assumedly) shunted towards that episode
it kinda bothers me how many peoples' sticking point is the cgi
doctor who has always required you to suspend your disbelief, especially in some of those 80s stories
personally, i felt the uncanny nature of it all enhanced the episode
also, they're _not-things._ not no-things.
There brain's have rotted
the giant arms were actually the most viscerally terrifying thing i have ever experienced in a doctor who episode i screamed
They were much better than the comedy skit he showed as comparison. Those were just goofy. This was a great practical effect.
Disagree. Even the flaws in this episode, such as the subpar CG inside the ship add to the charm of this story. For the first time in over half a decade... Doctor Who feels like it's finally returned. The No Things were actually scary to me. I disagree about the quality of technology effects, I thought they were fine, because it was legitimately UNSETTLING. And then Donna hearing the Doctor yelling her name while this freaking >>
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One thing I really wish happened in this episode is Donna giving the doctor a slap for picking the wrong one. She wouldn’t let him live it down.
He'll never be able to bring up that coffee thing now.
I couldn’t disagree more, I absolutely loved this episode.
Can't believe the channel got taken over by Not-Harbo, the arms were too long.
what is really weird to me is the fact that we get the second time when doctor and donna are split by some transparent glass. First time in the Meep ship, second time here. I am not sure if that just a coincidence or a celestial toymaker plan... idk
Did it look like the same design of glass to you? That can't be a coincidence.
@@kanton4108 yes! yes it did! I am expecting it to be the same small plot detail RTD put in his other seasons... Hope they dont just reuse the same door to lower the budget
@@kanton4108 in the Meep ship it was also placed kinda randomly... like why would you need to separate that room into two? so it is harder to pilot or something???
@@triangle_catReminds me of the poison glass box that killed 10
@@thatokpersonThat box is following that face EVERYWHERE…😳😬
rare harbo L 😔
I believe that the CGI accommodated the Not-Things rather well. Throughout the episode the Not-Things were trying to gain the form of the Doctor and Donna. Because of the interruptions in their thought patterns it caused the Not-Things to become uncanny.
6:03 if it would have been even A LITTLE scarier my heart would have stopped from this horror atmosphere... I guess I am just easily scared lol
If Peter capaldi was playing the doctor in this episode, you'd have said it was one of the greatest episodes of all time 😄
I actually looooved this episode. Better than the entirety of 13’s era imo. I felt like I was back in 6th grade watching Doctor Who with my family!! 🥹
I thought the silliness of the imagery was off cilter creepy the same way cartoon Judge Doom was in Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Like it doesn't look real, but it's still creepy for just being so surreal.
3:47
Okay... how? im sorry but, this is like way out of left field and uncalled for my friend,... you can *not* compare this crisp, smooth CGI to something as dated as my childhood fave Spykids or as purposefully campy as fucking speed race. Like, really you're acting like it's bad photoshop which is hardly the case, like your complaints are entirely unfounded, thelighing and shadows seem perfectly fine. Have you not seen how much the color white can brighten a room with a single lightsource? its not gonna be perfect, but that seems to be what you expect here.
Like we get it... you hate any form of CGI cause Disney has overused it in live action... but here your biases are very, very clearly leaking through and you're not even admitting them to be biases.
11:35
To be honest? I feel that more because you're not thinking about it, like why should they fit your view of normal or creepy? why shouldn't they look goofy or off? They are entities with no concept of time, space or matter, the idea these things look almost cartoonish, is... horrific, and everyone knows how unsettling toons are. Like imagine it IrL if *you* encountered something that looked like a bad snapchat filter or a weird CGI monstrosity in what is as far as you know, the real world.
*Wouldn't you be scared*
Actually... thats literally what HPL's lovecraftian works are... you know Reyhleh? yeah thats a fucking modeling error
Also the fact you try and defend your point by taking another bash at the ship interior CGI kind shows your lack of an argument for it... your bias against CGI is very clear my friend. I don't often disagree with you, but here you really need to reevaluate your opinions and see if you're maybe being a bit harsher than you should be.
I also feel you're being too critical by calling the ending a cop out, the doctor explains it quite well, he was more hoping he bought enough time earlier than he is just giving up. The tardis is a time machine, and a sentient one at that remember, so It's going to have the mind to take a calculated risk and save it's madman, as otherwise who's it meant to explore the universe with? It's already been established to be capable of these things, so it's not really a deus ex machina as long as you don't forget the fact that... it's a sentient time machine who cares about the doctor.
Finally the fact you still try to complain about the fakeout death, despite us already having *had* our tragic ending back in parting of the ways feels very cheep of an argument on your part. Donna deserves a better ending as a character, I've already made the comparison last time so I won't make it again, but narratively it's not very satisfying to kill off a beloved character like that so soon.
Overall, while I still respect your opinions, I feel for this you let your bias against CGI and donna's survival specifically color your views, and will need a break to sort through whats a bias and whats a honest opinion about the episode specifically.
I mean, the goofiness is kinda necessary to show how they're learning. how FAST they're learning. Even before the doctor learned HOW they're learning
Yeah some of the effects are goofy but weirdly I found it very effective because it reminded me of other things - the slow moving dragging of the heavy arms gave me zombie vibes, and the not-doctor's jaw drop combined with the current Christmas season gave me flashbacks to Jacob Marley from A Christmas Carol taking off his head bandage thing they put on Victorian corpses and his jaw just sagging down. It was goofy but it worked for me.
I thought the theme was meant to be liminal spaces. The edge of the universe. Building suspense from fast and slow. Hot and cold. Big and small spaces. The unknown and the know. Do the people you know really know you. How it was executed is down to you own opinions but i enjoyed it. But im not as critical or complaicent. You can not win or have anything enjoyable
I personally was surprised how scary I found it. I loved this episode.
Really hope this video title is just click bait.... this episode was EASILY the best doctor who episode in at least 6 or 7 years.
What else do you guys want? To just have the show canceled? Because at this point, that's the only alternative.
Turns out, not click bait.... what a terrible take that is really disconnected from most viewers' opinions on this episode.
I've already clicked "do not recommend channel" to every "doctor who sucks now" video I've come across since the specials started airing. I don't want that negativity in my life anymore. Hope I don't have to do that with this channel too.....
@@silbertmcg Idk what happened to this guy. He used to be fair and balanced but recently he has a blatant negativity bias.
Gonna have to play the "Um, actually" game here; I think you meant Helen Parr, not Violet Parr. Helen was the one who could stretch and grow, Violet was the one who turned invisible.
I think what really gripped me with this episode was the setting, the edge of the universe not being a drop off point into the beyond but rather just a place where stuff stopped existing or being created. It's still space but there are no stars or planets or meteors or debris, just absolute nothing. Then having something exist this far out and seeking out the Doctor and Donna is some great eerieness. The Doctor describing where they are and the scene with the TARDIS being the epicentre of a civilisation was some fantastic writing and was Russell Davies to a T. I was hoping for some more body horror, or even have subtle details that make the Not Things obvious when you're looking out for it, an upside down eye, an off centre mouth, a finger with 2 nails, stuff like that to lean into the "something's not right here"-ness the episode wanted.
so people complain if Doctor Who's CGI is too good but they also complain if it's not that good?
The CGI corridor itself isn't bad looking, how the actors are composited into it is. Par for the course in 2023 really. VFX in live action media peaked in the early 2010s, but it was also less accessible to productions with non-blockbuster budgets, so Doctor Who was never able to take advantage of it. The effects in the specials certainly don't look great, but still the best they've been throughout the whole series.
This might be one of the first times I have to disagree. It made me feel like it was 2009 again bouncing on the couch with my husband at all the goofy creepy gags, and I was bawling at the fake out🖤💯
I disagree, I think this special worked very well. Is it perfect? Did they make the most out of the concept? Obviously not. But I had fun and I found the arms scene genuinely creepy. The last third felt a bit rushed but as a whole this is what I want from a Doctor Who episode - a mystery, bantering, clever ideas, Playstation 2 level special effects and a half justified deus ex machina solution. =)
I enjoy your takes, but I don’t think I’ve ever disagreed as much with one of them as I do with this one. I won’t deny there are a few CGI issues here and there, but a HIGH C?! Absolutely disagree. Wildly disagree. Totally disagree.
Yeah I agree with a lot of this, especially the bit about the episode having two contrasting tones and clashing with itself.
I liked the Not things gradually learning how form worked as the episode went on. "Ah yes... we get hungry, don't we?" and "Where's your tie?" "I took it off." "Yeah, but now it's gone." "Ohhh... things keep existing once removed. Right..."
what was scary about the villains to me wasn't the body horror or special effects but their intentions and how they work. i kind of like the terrible effects. i think you're being way too hard on this episode for no reason. this is the best doctor who i've seen in a long time. i don't really get what the big deal is about cgi. doctor who has always had terrible cgi and it honestly feels even more like doctor who because of the terrible cgi. apart from the effects everything in this episode is amazing. donna's death isn't a fake-out but a near-death experience and it works well. i didn't feel like the episode expected me to think she's going to die but instead wanted me to feel her anxiety in that moment and ultimately show what could've happened if the doctor didn't notice he'd fucked up just in time. this episode is amongst the best doctor who horror episodes imo. i genuinely do not understand the cgi issues like how are you getting through any doctor who until maybe capaldi's run if the cgi is such a big issue for you? terrible effects and great writing have gone hand in hand for doctor who since forever. if anything the bad effects were comforting for me because i was worried the disney budget was going to fix the cgi but thankfully it's still bad
I really liked the episode but I don't know if it's just me but i slightly feel the episode was Russell doing his best Moffat impression
I was lucky enough to watch the filming of The Giggle in Bristol. Interestingly this was before the Disney+ deal was done so they filmed these specials before that. Now I don’t know for sure if that lucrative deal was struck in secrecy prior to the filming, but many of the DW crew members I spoke to said something interesting.
This was (at the time) that they were working with slightly more budget than before (before being the Chibnall era) because of the Bad Wolf involvement. So part of me is wondering if the CGI here was less paint-staking because it was filmed prior to Disney’s involvement. This leaves me hoping that going into s14, the production value will be better as it is adjusted to the far bigger budget.
Even still, I loved this episode and the bad CGI is part of the charm I adore Who for.
1:35 it’s supposed to be symbolic that time is in flux apparently everyone calls it mavity from then on
I liked the corridor. I don't mind a bit of jankiness. It was fine. Sure, it wasn't a _great_ episode, but I wouldn't call it a mess either. It's fine.
People have compared this episode to John Carpenter’s The Thing! Well with this episode’s appalling C.G.I , I got more ‘Who Framed Roger Rabbit’😳🔷💙
Man's feeling a bit negative today. I definitely noticed the bad VFX in places but I still enjoyed the crap out of this episode, can't remember the last time I did that
This was a really great episode. Even my friend who has never watched Dr. Who before loved it.
This was the a really good "weird" Episode of Doctor Who imo.
It had a lot of Sunshine, Alien, The Thing or Event Horizon vibes.
The back and forth between the real and doppelgangers of the Doctor and Donna were brilliantly done.
Though they were indeed goofy, I thought the VFX on the doppelgangers was quite creepy.
For some reason 12:25. that shot makes it look like it's Robert Downey Jr rather than David Tennant.
The tone of this one reminded me allot of Evil Dead but in all the good ways
@9:00 also with the edge of the universe, the end of time,
there were those times Orson Pink was alone in the "listen" episode,
or the time at the end of time, the edge of the universe , where Me (ishildir) was waiting for the Doctor...
I disagree with a number of things where you've insisted that some things about this are bad. I like the comparisons to Midnight (and even the Boneless), but this isn't Midnight. I think there's an interesting dynamic at play where the not-things are extra weird at first, but grow more intelligent and sinister as time goes on. It directly demonstrates the progression of their behavior so that we can see both how alien they are and how dangerous they could become. It illustrates what the ship's previous inhabitants already went through before they were thwarted the first time, and why the captain was able to reason things out and then willing sacrifice their life. Sure, it seems a little campy and absurd with the CG, and I'm not going to claim it's inherently better that way, but it did connect with me (and seemingly a number of other viewers) as being weird in an unnerving, uncanny way.
The Not-Doctor crab-walking was a little too goofy though, compared to the other examples. I won't even pretend it's not.
I think they deliberately made it comical to prevent it from becoming too horrifying for children
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought the corridor cgi was like it came from 15 years ago
I really honestly don’t understand this take. I saw your thumbnail a few days before I saw the episode and was feeling really disappointed going into it. I was so surprised with how I enjoyed it. A classic episode that will sit well with me for years.
As with many people have already said in the comments, I think the fake out death with Donna does work. It's a bit jarring at the fact that it is a fake out death, but when I first watched it, I genuinely thought this might be it for her.
I was genuinely fascinated by the thought that Doctor Who might have the guts to kill her off, and have her be replaced with a fake for the entire last episode, as a mystery for The Doctor to figure out. I'm ultimately glad that the real Donna made it, because in a special occasion like this, and with such a beloved character, we do want to see her get to interact with some people in the final episode, but there was a brief moment there where I genuinely thought they might do something really crazy.
i definitely agree with a lot of your points about the CGI, the tardis-ex-machina, the heavy-handed foreshadowing, but ultimately i think the strong really outweighs the weak in this episode. much like the last, corny and weird as this one was and with a few moments that didn't quite land, i can appreciate the vision and intent behind it a lot more than some other doctor who stories, and the on-screen charisma of the cast and legitimate sense of fun everyone had making this episode makes it work for me. it may not be perfect, and might not even be great, but it's certainly fun, and that's something doctor who hasn't been in a long time
Got there before I did (video still coming, im new and slow) but I fundamentally agree. It's an extremely tense and mysterious story, but 14s ultimate choice comes up empty and there was so much more they could have done. I enjoyed it for what it is, but if you pick at it (which, don't shoot the messenger, unravels as soon as you think about it) the dopplegangers greatest weakness is they're not very good at doppleganging and don't know whats going on, and 14/Donna's relationship is so unique that they overlooked the deep dive relationship test that an imposter story should excel at.
It's possible to have such a great concept that an average story ends up well done, while inadvertantly wasting a great idea because this was the ONLY opportunity to have threats that celebrate, compliment and contrast 60th 14/Donna with s4 10/Donna and explore how their dynamic has evolved or devolved, and how they still know each other quite well (or not, after all 14 fails to identify Donna and thematically I don't know why. That's to me what makes it a cheap fake-out rather than a well-built-to revelation of how 14 has lost touch with Donna OR found a way to truly reunite with her)
As a piece of entertainment, it's great. Watched it 3 times and really enjoyed it. As a narrative, ooh there's a lot of cracks and as a person who enjoys analysing narrative I find those cracks really interesting.
I completely agree with you that the Not-Things should have taken on the form of past Doctors. Having a villainous past Doctor like 11 or 12 to me is far more interesting than an evil take on the present Doctor, especially during the 60th year.
I reallly enjoyed this episode. For me it felt like going back to whats best abou RTD doctor who: wierd aliens and GREAT dialogue.
I think Donna spilling the coffee should have been the reason the tardis changed. they could have used the 13ths tardis set at first.
The Tardis returned because it knew that the ship blowing up would destroy the Not-Things, and so it would be safe for the Tardis to come and get the Doctor. I understood this perfectly and was actually kind of upset that the Doctor had to spell it out for the audience. I guess I'm less upset now that I know you didn't even understand that.
Hey Harbo, dont listen to the comments...most of your points are extremely valid in my opinion. One thing we have to keep in mind as DW fans is that the show has been bad/mediocre for so long now...the only people who stick around 90% of the time are the echo chambers - who will love anything the bbc shoves down their throat. I actually loved the episode - but the horrendous cgi ruined it for me. My main other complaint would be "horny doctor." In that I dont think the main character on a kids show should go around hitting on everyone. (IE 11 making comments about claras short skirt and such). The cgi was so complexity horrendous it complexity derailed the episode for me. Also, there were such few non-cgi environments in this episode it was hard to escape it for even a moment. I wouldnt show anyone who was thinking of getting back into the show this episode...with a classic rtd deus ex machina, terrible cgi, and "member berries," without the good parts..there isnt anything left here but smoldering ruin of something that was once great (hey..like galifrey)
I dont think the Tardis was a copout at all, the Doctor explained that a time machine would know if the not-thing is too late so it came early. The explosion is not an issue for the Tardis, as evidenced by it still being in the ship when it exploded, the main danger was the not-things taking control of the Tardis which wasn't an issue anymore.
Man, CGI is alright. REALLY alright.
Nah sorry Harbo I've gotta disagree! It seems the practical body horror has proved divisive as to whether its scary or goofy but to me it was super uncanny and horrific. Found them incredibly unsettling in all forms.
Wild Blue Yonder felt like a mid season episode rather than a part of a 60th anniversary special. The opportunity for the inclusion of various incarnations of the Doctor and companions as the not-things were attempting to take on a physical form was lost. I know that it would be fan service but given that it is the 60th anniversary and there haven't been call backs to previous Doctors or companions, apart from Tennant and Tate, the 'specials' are feeling more like a victory lap for the DoctorDonna and less like an actual 60th celebration.
Your bias seems to be showing during this episode, as you are clearly looking for something to be upset about.
It's a decently strong episode when you don't go out of your way to misinterpret scenes or deliberately dislike it.
I agree the effects work and CGI blending were dodgy, but everything else pulled its weigh so I still enjoyed the episode overall. I'd probably give it a 7/10
Despite the CGI that I personally didn't mind as it reminded me of the old days, the plot itself felt like an anniversary special because it was so basic.
10:59 tbf this episode did feel like it had some aunty donna sprinkled on it