Thank you Jeff. Because of your videos, I ended up getting two more subs for total of four. Your videos made me realized how much I was missing in 30-50 hz range with two subs. Your REW videos made it possible to tune up the subs and huge improvement in sound, as a result, encouraged me to get two more. And what a difference it made for MLP. Now these series will lead me to make my media room even better. Thank you very much. You don’t have petreon channel else I would contributed thru that. The knowledge you shared is precious, people spend to money to attend classes at trade show for this. Thank you boss.
You might have mentioned this. If you're not getting signal out of your miniDSP, make sure on the Input & Routing tab, the "Inputs" selection is set to "Analog". It may default to "USB" and you won't pass signal with that default setting.
I did not mention that but it’s a GREAT point. The miniDSP plug-in doesn’t make it obvious that’s where you go to select the source input. Just like you can’t tell that the inputs and outputs can be renamed.
Hi Jeff, i cant find the video you describe at the end. Like the sub+main integration tutorial. I see the multiple sub one. Could you please point me in the right direction?
This is my fault. I had planned on doing a full subs+mains video but never created it. My focus is home theater and the vast majority of people are going to run room correction after implementing MSO on their subs. Room correction would undo any subs+mains integration done in MSO so for the theater use-case, it's not really applicable. I don't plan to do a subs+mains video anytime soon (but I won't say "never").
At 13:05 in the video, you are resetting speaker distances in the receiver, prior to measurements, but the MSO manual states: "Prior to performing measurements for an MSO subs+mains configuration, the following steps should be performed. 1) Run your AVR's room correction program. 2) Take note of the speaker distances it computes. 3) Turn off your AVR's room correction. 4) If turning off room correction resets speaker distances, set them back to the values determined by the room correction system. 5) Set the AVR sub distance for your measurements as follows: If the sub distance calculated by your AVR's room correction software is too close to zero or to its maximum distance, set the sub distance to be roughly equal to the Left, Right, or Center speaker distance. Otherwise, use the sub distance calculated by your AVR's room correction software." . And regarding taking measurements for Subs+Mains, you make measurements for subs on either L, R or Center speaker channel, by simply unplugging the speaker. So you just make subwoofer measurements, by choosing e.g. left channel (channel 1 in REW's "Measure"), but disconnect the left speaker, before taking measurements. You made it sound way too complicated, in your video about Subs + Mains measurements. "For these reasons, channel 4 should never be used to energize the subs for measurements to be used with MSO for integration of subs with main speakers. Instead, energize the subs by using the center-, left-, or right-channel signal, forcing the AVR's bass management to generate the subwoofer signal." "Notice that for the subwoofer measurements, the REW output is set to the left channel, but the left speaker is muted or disconnected, so that no sound comes from it." "Sub 1 measurement: *) REW output: left channel *) Left channel speaker muted or disconnected *) REW acoustic timing reference: right channel *) All subs muted except sub 1"
There are different ways to achieve the results. If I'm teaching someone new, I'm going to use the easiest and most straightforward method. The method in my tutorial is 100% acceptable and you don't have to worry about keeping track of distances. Room EQ is going to recalculate those when it's run after the subs are integrated. Thanks for the feedback on the other video. I do appreciate it.
Hi , Jeff. Thanks for this tutorial. After doing all the steps and running MSO optimization, forgot to zero out the distances of speakers . Even if I turn off audyssey , do I have to do new measurements and run MSO again?
If you are doing a sub-only optimization, then you're possibly okay. The best way to verify would be to input the MSO filter results into the miniDSP, and then run a single position sweep at the MLP to verify the results. If they match, then you're good to go. If they don't, then you likely need to remeasure. The reason you're "possibly" okay is that the only delays that matter when integrating multiple subs with one another are the relative delays between the subs. The delay between the individual subs and the mains does NOT matter until after the subs are integrated and presented to the AVR/Processor as a single sub. You will likely need to use the REW Alignment Tool, instead of the MSO-recommended AVR distance/delay, to align your subs with your mains or center. But that's a pretty easy process. I've done a video on that as well so take a look and let me know what questions you've got.
My Denon x6300h can also be controlled like yours can. I see that you also get the not secure thing on the left like me. But for some reason something doesn’t let me connect. How did you get it to work on your computer?
I don't recall having to do anything special. It's a totally unsecured connection over HTTP. That means there isn't even a self-signed certificate to manually accept over an HTTPS connection. It just works. Most, if not all, modern browsers have a setting to force connections to happen only over HTTPS. If you try to connect via HTTP, the browser will redirect to HTTPS before the connection attempt is even made. I'd suggest digging into the settings of your particular browser to see if that might be the case. Another possible complication would be if you're using a work machine. A lot of companies lock down protocols like that for security purposes. If it's a work machine, i would try to find a personal device to use to test. My phone (iPhone) is a personal device and has no problems connecting either.
I don't think this would work for home theater. One of the measurement requirements is to have an acoustic timing reference for all sub measurements. If you connect directly to the miniDSP, you're only connected to your subs. Subs can't be used to produce the timing reference because they can't play high enough (IIRC the timing reference is something like 5 kHz). However, I did do this to setup my desktop 2.1 system. I currently use a miniDSP as a DAC on my desktop. The speakers and sub are all connected to the miniDSP. In this case, I could get the timing reference from one of the mains because they all run of the miniDSP. I hope this makes sense? If not, keep asking questions.
I have an older AVR that does not allow me to set speaker distances to zero, what do I have to do? When I reset my receiver, the default value is 12ft, and will only allow me to reduce it to 0.5 feet.
Either of those are fine as long as they are all the same. 0.5 or 12 will be your “zero”. Just don’t forget which one you used. If it were me, I’d use the default value of 12 ft. It’s easier to return to since it’s the default for the AVR.
The online MSO manual says (regarding taking meassurements in REW): "Prior to performing measurements for an MSO subs+mains configuration, the following steps should be performed. 1) Run your AVR's room correction program. 2) Take note of the speaker distances it computes. 3) Turn off your AVR's room correction. 4) If turning off room correction resets speaker distances, set them back to the values determined by the room correction system. 5) Set the AVR sub distance for your measurements as follows: If the sub distance calculated by your AVR's room correction software is too close to zero or to its maximum distance, set the sub distance to be roughly equal to the Left, Right, or Center speaker distance. Otherwise, use the sub distance calculated by your AVR's room correction software."
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank you Jeff. Because of your videos, I ended up getting two more subs for total of four.
Your videos made me realized how much I was missing in 30-50 hz range with two subs. Your REW videos made it possible to tune up the subs and huge improvement in sound, as a result, encouraged me to get two more.
And what a difference it made for MLP. Now these series will lead me to make my media room even better. Thank you very much. You don’t have petreon channel else I would contributed thru that. The knowledge you shared is precious, people spend to money to attend classes at trade show for this. Thank you boss.
Awesome! I'm glad you got such great results! I really appreciate your comments as well. You are most welcome :-)
Thank you Jeff. I still have a while before I start working on my theater room in my new build, but this info is going to be invaluable!
Let me know when you get to work. I'm happy to help.
You might have mentioned this. If you're not getting signal out of your miniDSP, make sure on the Input & Routing tab, the "Inputs" selection is set to "Analog". It may default to "USB" and you won't pass signal with that default setting.
I did not mention that but it’s a GREAT point. The miniDSP plug-in doesn’t make it obvious that’s where you go to select the source input. Just like you can’t tell that the inputs and outputs can be renamed.
Hi Jeff, i cant find the video you describe at the end. Like the sub+main integration tutorial. I see the multiple sub one. Could you please point me in the right direction?
This is my fault. I had planned on doing a full subs+mains video but never created it. My focus is home theater and the vast majority of people are going to run room correction after implementing MSO on their subs. Room correction would undo any subs+mains integration done in MSO so for the theater use-case, it's not really applicable. I don't plan to do a subs+mains video anytime soon (but I won't say "never").
And thank you for this guide!
You bet!
At 13:05 in the video, you are resetting speaker distances in the receiver, prior to measurements, but the MSO manual states:
"Prior to performing measurements for an MSO subs+mains configuration, the following steps should be performed.
1) Run your AVR's room correction program.
2) Take note of the speaker distances it computes.
3) Turn off your AVR's room correction.
4) If turning off room correction resets speaker distances, set them back to the values determined by the room correction system.
5) Set the AVR sub distance for your measurements as follows:
If the sub distance calculated by your AVR's room correction software is too close to zero or to its maximum distance, set the sub distance to be roughly equal to the Left, Right, or Center speaker distance.
Otherwise, use the sub distance calculated by your AVR's room correction software." .
And regarding taking measurements for Subs+Mains, you make measurements for subs on either L, R or Center speaker channel, by simply unplugging the speaker.
So you just make subwoofer measurements, by choosing e.g. left channel (channel 1 in REW's "Measure"), but disconnect the left speaker, before taking measurements. You made it sound way too complicated, in your video about Subs + Mains measurements.
"For these reasons, channel 4 should never be used to energize the subs for measurements to be used with MSO for integration of subs with main speakers. Instead, energize the subs by using the center-, left-, or right-channel signal, forcing the AVR's bass management to generate the subwoofer signal."
"Notice that for the subwoofer measurements, the REW output is set to the left channel, but the left speaker is muted or disconnected, so that no sound comes from it."
"Sub 1 measurement:
*) REW output: left channel
*) Left channel speaker muted or disconnected
*) REW acoustic timing reference: right channel
*) All subs muted except sub 1"
There are different ways to achieve the results. If I'm teaching someone new, I'm going to use the easiest and most straightforward method. The method in my tutorial is 100% acceptable and you don't have to worry about keeping track of distances. Room EQ is going to recalculate those when it's run after the subs are integrated.
Thanks for the feedback on the other video. I do appreciate it.
Hi , Jeff. Thanks for this tutorial. After doing all the steps and running MSO optimization, forgot to zero out the distances of speakers . Even if I turn off audyssey , do I have to do new measurements and run MSO again?
If you are doing a sub-only optimization, then you're possibly okay. The best way to verify would be to input the MSO filter results into the miniDSP, and then run a single position sweep at the MLP to verify the results. If they match, then you're good to go. If they don't, then you likely need to remeasure.
The reason you're "possibly" okay is that the only delays that matter when integrating multiple subs with one another are the relative delays between the subs. The delay between the individual subs and the mains does NOT matter until after the subs are integrated and presented to the AVR/Processor as a single sub.
You will likely need to use the REW Alignment Tool, instead of the MSO-recommended AVR distance/delay, to align your subs with your mains or center. But that's a pretty easy process. I've done a video on that as well so take a look and let me know what questions you've got.
My Denon x6300h can also be controlled like yours can. I see that you also get the not secure thing on the left like me. But for some reason something doesn’t let me connect. How did you get it to work on your computer?
I don't recall having to do anything special. It's a totally unsecured connection over HTTP. That means there isn't even a self-signed certificate to manually accept over an HTTPS connection. It just works.
Most, if not all, modern browsers have a setting to force connections to happen only over HTTPS. If you try to connect via HTTP, the browser will redirect to HTTPS before the connection attempt is even made. I'd suggest digging into the settings of your particular browser to see if that might be the case.
Another possible complication would be if you're using a work machine. A lot of companies lock down protocols like that for security purposes. If it's a work machine, i would try to find a personal device to use to test. My phone (iPhone) is a personal device and has no problems connecting either.
@@jeffmery turns out my Denon is just old enough that it doesn’t have this feature. Kind of sucks when I was hoping to do everything on my laptop
@@tatts4life838 Doh! I hadn't even thought about the relative age of the AVR. Doing everything from a laptop is definitely a major convenience.
Hi can I use the headphone output from my laptop and connect direct to the my minidsp 2x4HD or do i need to connect through the avr via HDMI.
I don't think this would work for home theater. One of the measurement requirements is to have an acoustic timing reference for all sub measurements. If you connect directly to the miniDSP, you're only connected to your subs. Subs can't be used to produce the timing reference because they can't play high enough (IIRC the timing reference is something like 5 kHz).
However, I did do this to setup my desktop 2.1 system. I currently use a miniDSP as a DAC on my desktop. The speakers and sub are all connected to the miniDSP. In this case, I could get the timing reference from one of the mains because they all run of the miniDSP.
I hope this makes sense? If not, keep asking questions.
I have an older AVR that does not allow me to set speaker distances to zero, what do I have to do? When I reset my receiver, the default value is 12ft, and will only allow me to reduce it to 0.5 feet.
Either of those are fine as long as they are all the same. 0.5 or 12 will be your “zero”. Just don’t forget which one you used. If it were me, I’d use the default value of 12 ft. It’s easier to return to since it’s the default for the AVR.
The online MSO manual says (regarding taking meassurements in REW):
"Prior to performing measurements for an MSO subs+mains configuration, the following steps should be performed.
1) Run your AVR's room correction program.
2) Take note of the speaker distances it computes.
3) Turn off your AVR's room correction.
4) If turning off room correction resets speaker distances, set them back to the values determined by the room correction system.
5) Set the AVR sub distance for your measurements as follows:
If the sub distance calculated by your AVR's room correction software is too close to zero or to its maximum distance, set the sub distance to be roughly equal to the Left, Right, or Center speaker distance.
Otherwise, use the sub distance calculated by your AVR's room correction software."
@@jeffmery Thanks for the response. Worked like a charm. I have three sealed subs will a very nice, even response on my whole couch!
@@MrMalbolgia666 Awesome! Glad to hear it :-)