Great overview and guide. First time REW user here, needing to figure out sub placement (JTR Cap1400 with an incoming 4000ULF). Thanks for putting in the time/energy, really straight forward and concise!
That's some serious hardware! Congrats! Feel free to ask questions if you need help. Fun fact: It doesn't matter what sub you measure in a location, the response of the room will be the same. WHAT?! Say I put a 12" Klipsch sub in positions A, B, and C and take a measurement. Then I put a Cap1400 in those same positions and measure it. The resulting measurements will look VERY, VERY similar. Yes, the Cap1400 will have more extension and possibly play at a higher SPL depending on whether we took the time to calibrate that between the subs. However, assuming we didn't touch the microphone between measurements, all the locations and shapes of the peaks and nulls in the response will be the same for each location A, B, and C between the two subs. Given that you're waiting on new subs, and that those subs are monsters, you can save some time and back pain by "scouting" for possible locations with one of your existing subs.
@@jeffmery hoping you don't mind playing customer service for me. FINALLY got around to setting this up today, followed your walkthrough (both this and the prior setup) and everything looks solid. My issue at the moment, when I go to take a measurement and hit "measure" I don't get any noise for timing. The sweep will happen, but the progress bar in the lower left corner will sit at 9% "waiting for timing" (or similar wording) and nothing happens. If I choose to not have any timing, the sweep works great, will output a graph, etc. This is the case for not only my LFE, but all channels. Set everything per your instructions properly in preferences and then also in the measurement window as well. Any clue? Running through my HTP-1 (Dirac Live turned off) and just in a simple 5.1 setup (configured properly in the MIDI Setup App). Thanks again!
@@idyfohu Hmmm ... I'm not sure. There are three things I can think of to triple check. Make sure you are using the *acoustic* timing reference and not the loopback. Second, after verifying that you've got acoustic timing reference selected, make sure that the "Ref output" is set to the same device as "Output". This will be whatever your HTP-1 shows up as to your Mac. Third, make sure the channel you're using for the "Ref output" is NOT the LFE channel. I'd try either L or R just to keep it simple for now.
@@jeffmery thanks for the reply. I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Saw a lot of others doing REW measurements without any timing, so worst case, if I can't get timing to work for whatever reason, I can at least figure out ideal placement and then I'll be running DIRAC afterwards which should optimize distance and I can tweak from there. Now to get my stupid heights mounted. :) Again, thanks for putting in the time/energy!
@@idyfohu There's nothing wrong, per se, with not using a timing reference. However, a LOT of the functions of REW, and other tools like MSO, won't work correctly/reliably without the timing reference. This is particularly true if you're going to use it to align anything (multiple subs, sub distance tweak, verify speaker distances, etc). It's definitely something you want to get figured out. Good luck with the heights! I was dumb and installed my in-ceiling Atmos speakers at the end of the Texas summer. The attic was NOT fun. LOL!
sorry don't want to spam your RUclips thread but you take measurement at 5:27 using the sub channel which makes sense but in Austin Jerry guide that you link to he writes" Set REW to output to the center channel (HDMI3)" and select Pink Noise, Subwoofer Cal. that does not make sense. Can you please provide me a link to the AVS forum group that you also is a member of , that discuss these rew minidsp things
I differ in several areas from what that guide says. I do this for a few different reasons, but I won't get into those here. I'm not sure why that section says to use the center channel (I haven't read it in a while TBH). I assume it's for checking the subwoofer level against the mains. That's easier to do on a non-sub channel. Here's the link to the main REW thread on AVS Forum: www.avsforum.com/threads/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs.1449924/ There's a separate thread on the miniDSP, but I can't find it at the moment. The REW thread crosses over with the other one so it should be a good place to start.
I would say not one of the best but the best tutorial on REW for HT sub. I have macOS 12.2. AvNirvana and the Rew site has the dmg supported upto 11.6. Any suggestions ? Please also make more videos on how to eq all the channels together ( not just the subs) to get the best sound. please also let know while calibrating subs what should the default sub distance settings in the avr.
Thank you for the kind words! I can't take all the credit. I just put some visuals and words to the great guide from Enrico Claudio @ Rythmik Audio here in Austin. I am using REW 5.20.5 on MacOS 12.3 with no issues. It should work just fine as it's based on Java, includes its own JRE, and the DMG file has a universal binary so it works regardless of Intel or M1 processor. I don't plan to do any videos covering full range, manual equalization. The vast majority of people are using some kind of room correction which allows for that functionality in a more automated way. Depending on what is specifically in use, it may also be possible to specify either limited or full range target curves to help with equalization. Audyssey, Dirac, and ARC all allow for custom target curves. I believe the latest YPAO version from Yamaha (finally) allows this as well. As far as setting the sub distance, I'd recommend that you allow your room correction software to take the first shot at getting it right. Some of them do a better job than others. However, I always recommend running room correction to get the distances and levels of your speakers set. You can then measure the frequency response of the Center and the L+R to see how it looks. If there is a dip at the crossover frequency that you, or the room correction, selected, you will then need to adjust the sub distance in the AVR to fix that. This is called a "sub distance tweak" so if you google that, there are plenty of guides to get that sorted out.
Fantastic overview, Jeff. I followed this to the letter (MacOS Sonoma; MacBook Air; UMIK-1; Marantz Cinema-50 via HDMI)…at least I believe so. When I tried to capture my first measurement I received an Audio Device Error message (unable to replay device…little-endian not supported). Perhaps worth noting that my first attempt before receiving my uber-long HDMI cable was via Bluetooth and no such issue. Any suggestions, where to troubleshoot?
That is one that I have never seen before. I run everything on Sonoma now too without issues. Did you get the error on bluetooth or on the first run with the HDMI cable? I've never tried to measure over BT. I bet there are some issues doing that. I don't have a processor that supports BT or I'd try it out myself to see what happens.
@@jaymitchoskyAwesome. John has been releasing betas pretty quickly prior to a new version dropping soon. Hard to keep up with them but glad it fixed it for you!
I have a MiniDSP SHD (2x4) in 2.1 setup. Sub is connected to output 3 of the minidsp with one single Sub cable. left and right channel are both enabled for output 3. (normal sub integration) When generating the sub calibration sound in REW, and measuring do I need to select as output left or right speaker, or do I select both left and right in REW? The sound that is generated by the sub sound different when using only left or right and left + right.. I see you have the possibility to select LFE output, but because the Minidsp SHD this is a stereo device this is not listed I guess? Thank you for this helpful video!
If you're generating a normal sweep or pink noise, the only difference between sweeping L, R, and L+R should be the volume level. L+R will be louder. If the curves don't match between L, R, and L+R (I.E., they're different shapes and not just the same shape at different levels) then something else is going on. Are you manually configuring and EQing everything or are you using Dirac Live?
I just found your videos. I´m very interesting to see all of them, but specially all about MSO since I´ll have 2 HSU subwoofers 15" very soon. One question about AVR/Processor, should I to set some parameters like XO, distances, and level? Should I put them as factory default? thank you!
That's largely covered in the video(s) for MSO. The one difference is around distances. In the video, I recommend setting everything to 0 ms. It's better to use some arbitrary value like 10 ms for everything. Some AVRs even use a default of 12 ms or something (Denon I think). There won't be a difference in output, but the 10 ms gives you a buffer to move things in or out in the event the subs need less delay to properly integrate.
Needed some clarification on the sub integration using a miniDSP with Audyssey. I read some of the details in the massive post on AVForums and also your previous video, and comments. So basically, I should run Audyssey with the subs first. Make sure subs are in the red zone. Second, I should connect the miniDSP to the subs and avr. Then change distances for subs to 0, their channel levels to also 0 and their self volume level to midpoint. Then perform the measurement using REW and UMIK? How do I go on from there? And additionally should I disable the Sub EQ using the audyssey App by taking filter all the way to the end? I also have nulls around 20Hz and 50-63Hz. Massive nulls but my fronts at their locations are completely flat at those frequencies, so should I bring my subs closer to those locations then? Subs are SB16s x2, fronts are Kef R11.
There are a couple of things to unpack above. I'm going to tackle them a bit out of order from the way you asked. RE: Sub positions - This really depends on the way the subs interact with the room, and where the seating position is in relation to those interactions. You want to get the subs in the best positions first, then worry about EQ and room correction. The best way to do this is a "sub crawl". If you google that, there are tons of videos. Ignore those that put the sub in the MLP. You want the mic in the MLP and move the sub around. It's more work, but the results are better. Once you have the best locations, you can think of EQ and integrating them together. I've got a video on how to do this with REW here: ruclips.net/video/ARztXSmoQbE/видео.html. Once you have your subs EQ'd, then you can run room correction (Audyssey) and finally verify the results (and do the "sub distance tweak" if needed to smooth the crossover region). When taking "raw" measurements, you want Audyseey turned off. Sub distances and levels within your AVR should be set at 0. On the subs, phase should be 0°, delay should be 0 ms, and volume should NOT be maxed out. The SVS app allows super granular volume control so set those subs to the same level; something like -20 dB should be fine. If we need more/less output during the Audyssey calibration, we can adjust the volume as needed by the exact same amount on each sub (love that about SVS subs BTW; no knobs to fiddle with). There's a lot to unpack here so let me know if this response helps or causes even more confusion.
@@jeffmery ok I’m on windows The reason why I asked, is my Mic was at 100% and I kept getting clipping …. until I turned the microphone down in the computer then it worked
My issue is my Noise floor is similar to yours, I cannot hit 85dB s it start clipping and then shuts off.this is with both subs playing or single sub.when I run the sweep at 80dB my headroom drops to 10dB where as yours is at 20dB. This does not make sense.please advise thanks.
A little easier way to set the level is to just take a sweep that's loud enough to measure. Switch to the "Distortion" tab. At the bottom, you want to select the "Fundamental" and "Noise Floor" traces only. Look at the difference between these. In the video I said 40 dB, but anything 30 dB and up should be fine. Just look at the separation between the two lines and that will tell you if the sweep is loud enough.
When you said you were adjusting the volume to get to 85 db we’re you adjusting the volume on the processor or subwoofer? And if it was on the processor where do you set your volume on your sub as a starting point?
Processor volume to get 85 dB. My subs are all identical so I set their controls to the mid-point of their range to start. This leaves room to increase/decrease the volume on the subs post calibration if needed. It's incredibly important to note .... If you need to adjust the sub gain control after calibration, each sub must be adjusted in the same direction by the exact same amount to avoid the need to fully recalibrate them. Some subs make this easier than others by having either digital controls or detents on the gain knobs.
what does the acoustic timing reference do? I understand that I have need to set it in order for the time aligning tool to work. Can I use your guides with acoustic timing reference set and use your time align video then eq flat again using your video, then run audyssey and then switch to home theatre gurus guide to add a harmon curve?
Sound we hear has two ways of looking at it. One way is in the frequency domain. That's the frequency sweeps that people tend to focus on. The other way is the time domain. This looks at the timing of the sound and frequencies we hear. These two "domains" are looking at the exact same thing, the sound, from two different perspectives: Frequency and Time. Time is very important. Many of the things we look at depend on time, and particularly phase. In order to get accurate comparisons, we need an accurate frequency and time view of the sound. To get an accurate time view, we must have a timing reference. The acoustic timing reference is one method to get accurate timing for all of our measurements so they can be fully compared. You should *always* use a timing reference. The acoustic timing reference is the one you must use with USB microphones. The process you outline above looks very reasonable!
@@jeffmery I have just read in the pdf from Austin Jerry that you recommend, that "it must be a full-range speaker" I have MK Sound mp150. That is a satellite speaker that have 3 tweeters and 2 woofers. Can I then not use Acoustic Timing Reference ?
@@michaelbested123456 The only requirement is that the speaker has a tweeter. It doesn't need to be "full range" down into the low frequencies. A subwoofer cannot be used for an acoustic timing reference. From the REW help file: "The timing signal is a sweep from 5 kHz to 20 kHz lasting about 700 ms. It must be directed to a speaker that can reproduce high frequencies, one that has a tweeter."
Before all the alignments using rew+mini dsp. What do we do with the distance of subs in the avr? Should it be set to zero or do manual distance and set the distance. Or first step is to use room correction and use the sub distance set as our starting point to proceed with the alignments using rew+mini dsp?
My personal preference is to zero everything out (distances and levels), then align and EQ the subs via your chosen method (REW, MSO), then run your room correction software. After room correction has been run, you'll likely need to verify the integration of the subs and mains (except Dirac+DLBC and the current Anthem ARC beta).
I have 3 subs connected to a miniDSP 2x4HD. How can I use Acoustic Timing Reference when I using a stereo system? My pre-amp has XLR that I connect to my stereo amp and RCA that I am using for the miniDSP.
You need to use something with a tweeter as the timing reference. I’d temporarily connect the miniDSP to the R channel output. Use L for timing and R to sweep subs. Hopefully you have RCA that can be used and not just XLR
I have a nagging question: Say the combined SPL for all 4 subs is 100db at -15 on the AVR Master Volume but each of the individual subs (all identical makes/models) have varying SPLs (e.g. Right Sub: 85db, Front Sub: 80db, Left Sub: 82db, Rear Sub: 79db); when performing measurements should you adjust the Master Volume in the AVR to bring each sub up/down to 40db above the noise floor (in my case noise floor is 39 db) or should you run each sub at their ‘relative’ volume (e.g. Rear sub at 79db, Left sub: 82db, etc.)? I would think you should run each sub at their relative volume so that MSO can correctly set the gains?
I'm making an assumption that this is for the measurements used as input into MSO for optimization. With identical subs, set the gain control on the sub to the exact same position on each sub. I'd suggest the middle position for a knob or -15 dB or so for SVS Pro subs with digital controls. Yes, they'll have different levels at the listening positions, but that's okay. It's what we're here to fix. It's more important to have identical subs working equally hard. It makes things significantly easier to adjust in the long run. In the AVR, I'd set the sub trim level to 0.0 dB. I'd set the distance to 15-20 feet. That last bit contradicts one of my earlier recommendations. The main reason for setting it to "not zero" is so we can both add *and* remove delay when we go to do the sub distance tweak to integrate the subs and mains at the crossover with Audyssey after the calibration. Now that the subs are working equally as hard, set the main volume on the AVR so the first sub is 30-40 dB above the noise floor (the higher end is better but don't blow out your ears, equipment, family, or neighbors ;-)). Once you set the main volume, write down the level and don't touch it again. You're writing it down in case it is accidentally changed.
I try to stick to your tutorial while doing sub cal. Though other rew tutorials on YT says to keep sub spl at 75db using the tone generator and no one talk about +40db to your noise floor and considering that tutorial suggests 85db. Which is more accurate 75db or 85db for sub cal?
The distance above the noise floor is more important than the specific SPL. The sweeps need to be loud enough that the ambient noise doesn't impact the measurement. The ambient noise level will vary from room to room. Because the noise floor can vary, sometimes significantly, we can't know if you need to sweep at 75 dB or 85 dB or something else. 30 - 40 dB above the noise floor should be plenty. Most rooms not specifically built from the ground up will have a noise floor between 40 - 50 dB. Add 30 - 40 dB to those numbers and you should end up somewhere between 70 - 90 dB. To find the noise floor, take a sweep of the subs at a given SPL. Switch to the "Distortion" view in REW. At the bottom of the graph, select the "Fundamental" and "Noise Floor" traces. Finally, in the upper left of the graph, change the y-axis units to "SPL". You may need to change the graph limits to show from 0 - 100 dB or something similar to see the noise floor trace. The noise floor will typically slowly rise from 100 Hz down to 0 Hz. I typically look at the 20 Hz noise floor level and add 30 - 40 dB from there. I hope this helps.
@@jeffmery Just for clarification purposes, I am running three subs so the Sub Sweeping method (40dB above noise floor), I need to set each individual sub 40dB above noise floor reach 85dB SPL first. Then I need to do my sweeps with all three subs combined(Unmuted in miniDSP). Thank you advance for the clarification. Love your videos.
@@martinmares8998 If the subs are identical, set the gain control on the sub to the same level. If the subs are not identical, then do what you described above. Everything else is correct if your goal is to see what the subs are doing together in the room. If your goal is to see what they are doing so you can align and EQ them, look at my videos on aligning and EQ-ing multiple subs.
Yes my goal is to see what my subs are doing so I can level match, Time Align and EQ them. Thank you in advance for making these great educational videos. I got in late to the home theater hobby and I'm learning so much from your videos.
@@jeffmery Can this sub measuring method (40dB above noise floor) be applied to any AVR? And if so, are we required to change any settings in the AVR? The reason I'm asking is because I have a Denon AVR. Thank you.
Hey Jeff - when I run my pink noise generator on the LFE channel/sub cal, it does not come from my subs, only my center channel? I have both set to LFE however in REW?
I've noticed that sometimes REW switches channels 3 (center) and 4 (LFE). No idea why this happens, but I've seen it on different AVRs and with different cables. Only set one channel to LFE. I usually just swap 3 & 4 and call it good. You'll need to check it each time you run sweeps. I believe this is only a Mac OS thing. I haven't researched it in depth.
@@jeffmery thanks - i have it now playing out the LFE channel. Only thing, it also looks like Ike it’s playing the center channel too! Should i simply unplug the center channel to start?
Hi, I have a four way PA system with independent DSP for each channel and no passive crossovers (all DSP crossover) and I want to use REW and a calibrated mic to manage each part of the system (EQs and crossovers) to get everything balanced properly. I am really struggling to find any reference materials or videos on this type of system setup. Can you help? [system has subs, mid bass, mids and high frequency drivers. Crown XTI amplifiers with DSP]
Thanks for the question! I have zero hands on experience with this, but I understand the concept. I think the confusion may be that with this type of speaker (requiring external digital crossovers), is that there's effectively two layers of DSP. The first layer is typically used to implement the active crossover settings required by the speaker. REW can be used for near-field measurements of each driver, in the cabinet, to determine what the crossover design should be. This is way above my knowledge level though; I'm definitely not a speaker designer! LOL! Commercially manufactured speakers will have the active crossover settings specified by said speaker designer/manufacturer. This is almost always implemented "close" to the speaker such as within the Crown amps you have. However, it can be implemented further upstream depending on the equipment. Trinnov, for example, supports up to 4-way active crossovers for exactly this purpose. If you need to figure out the correct crossover settings for your PA speakers, I'd search for something like "using REW for active crossover design". The second layer of DSP is typically used for "room correction" purposes; think time alignment, EQ, house curves, etc. When the active crossover is implemented in the amp, the room correction is typically done upstream of the amp. This is where you'd use REW to measure the speakers in the room, and then use DSP (again, upstream of the amps) to make changes according to your needs. This could be in a stand-alone DSP device or in an AVR/Processor. If you need help with setting the speakers up in a room, then the process will be more dependent on the equipment you're using than anything else. I'd try to search for equipment-specific tutorials. REW can take measurements and EQ to a target curve, but the implementation is different for subs vs full-range speakers and for different equipment. I'm sorry I'm not more helpful on this, but hopefully it helps get you on the right path to finding the answers.
@@jeffmery thank you so much for the fantastic reply 👍 yes, I think you are right, I am probably trying to solve too many variables in one process. The DSP in the amps allows for independent crossovers and EQ for each driver so I will start with getting that flat and balanced and then look at the room EQ upstream once the system is effectively one ‘speaker’ and one ‘sub’.
I have SVS pb4k subs, is -15 on the app a good volume to use while taking sub sweeps with 40db above noise floor trim with AVR volume? I’m not sure what -15 in the SVS app is meant to be? Possibly 50%?
The TL;DR is -15 on the SVS app is as good a point as any to start. Don't be afraid to turn that up some after you're done if you need more output. Depending on your room correction software, you may need to use the SVS app to adjust the subs louder or softer to work the best with your equipment. Hearing and power are logarithmic so "50%" comes at unintuitive places. It also depends on 50% "of what". I have an SB-1000 Pro in my desk setup. I just looked and the range in the app is -60 - 0 dBFS. If we are talking SPL and what we're hearing, a change of 10 dB is considered to be "twice as loud". -10 dB would be half as loud as 0 dB. -20 dB would be half again or 25% as loud as 0 dB. So -15 dB is somewhere between 25% and 50% as loud as 0 dB from what our ears hear. If we're talking about power 50% represents a change of -3 dB (double the power = increase by 3 dB so if we halve the power we get -3 dB). So from a power perspective -3 dB on the SVS app would be 50% of the amp's rated power at 0 dB.
@@jeffmery thanks for your response, I ended up running -20 on both subs (pb4k) and my avm90 was set to -19.5 to get 40db above my noise floor at the MLP (subs measured separately not combined) using LFE, now to re run ARC with a better flat response, thank you for the detailed video! I seem to be getting better performance from my subs with miniDSP combined with ARC over just ARC controlling the subs calibration and so far the only difference had been an amplitude change in the SVS app, the best ARC file I made was with the SVS app set to -20, I recently use miniDSP to get a flat response although I used a slightly different setup method, subs set to -10db on app and AVM90 set to -33db to get 75db from mains at MLP separately to subs as well as getting 75db at MLP with subs separately to mains, this gave me literally one headroom and had me wondering why then I came across this video, the nicest flat EQ I could get was set to 75db in REW so it already had my subs jacked up to get a flat response at 75db when I like to run about a 10db house curve 100hz to 30hz, so I knew something wasn’t quite right although it was the best performance from my subs yet but I need to do more experimenting to compare miniDSP vs ARC on its own, I now have a flat response from miniDSP with my SVS app dialed in to the same level as I have been using with ARC on its own so this should be a much better comparison even though amplitude shouldn’t make a difference after room correction but I just want to eliminate that from the equation
@@njrumenos If I may make a suggestion - I think you can simplify things if you stop worrying about the gain on the subs so much. The goal with most room correction is that the subs should *not* be the loudest speaker. If we translate that into room correction terms, the gain on the sub in the AVR/Processor should not be the highest value among all speakers. For example, on Dirac and Trinnov, the subs should not be 0.0 dB. Some other speaker should be 0.0 dB and the subs should have some negative trim value. With Audyssey, the guideline is aiming for -11 dB or so. Once those levels are established, there's no need to fiddle with the sub gains at all. I'm typically able to set the physical sub gain (or SVS app gain in your case) once, and then manage it all digitally through trims during a calibration.
@@jeffmery yeah ok, when I first did miniDSP with ARC and had my sub gains on -10, ARC set the sub level trim to +0.5db and my mains always the same about +2.5db, I have not yet had time to re run ARC with the newest miniDSP EQ
On your Mac, what do you set the mic input? I thought it'd be disabled. but when plug in the umik1 it sets it all the way to 100% which then reads super hot, normal voice talking shows over 75db. doesn't look right. other tutorial said to set the mic input with MIDI, and target 0db (75% in), other said, -9db., I'm so confused as to why a ref. SPL would allow a gain. it kinds of defeats the purpose of measuring accurately, no? I feel I'm missing something
With REW I don't recall ever having to set the mic level. Admittedly, my theater has been down for 6-7 weeks for a small renovation so it's been a while. I"ll see if I can find my mic in the mess and refresh my memory.
@@ericf3688 Finally found my mics and set them up. Apologies again the delay. My UMIK-2 is at 0.0 dB or all the way up. My UMIK-1 cannot be adjusted in the MIDI controls on Mac OS. The UMIK-1 is locked all the way up. Measuring each mic separately in REW, using their associated calibration files, and they are just about on top of one another. USB mics don't typically need much fiddling with. It's really the XLR mics and external audio interfaces that need to be adjusted using input gain. I'm actually learning about that right now. However, all of the gain adjustments on the inputs (mics) are done on the external audio interface and not within Mac OS.
@@jeffmery Thank you for looking into it! and it is strange because my umik1 is not locked. and as soon as I plug it in, it goes to 100% but looks way too hot. looks like I have to drop it to 78% or so.
I've had this happen a couple of times. The fix was always to completely close REW, then disconnect the mic from the laptop, wait 10-15 seconds, plug the mic back in, and then restart REW. Make sure it sees the mic and that the mic is selected as the input device (not "Default Device").
Hi Dan. Can you narrow down the context of your question a little bit more for me? I want to be sure I answer it correctly for you. Is this in relation to overall volume to get good measurement levels above the noise floor?
@@jeffmery My Subs has own volume control and room correction thought blue tooth or should I rest sub so they play flat and forget about room correction for above the noise floor? or difference in using volume control on AV? First time user REW
@@dandonna852 Ahh I understand now. Thanks for clarifying. When we're trying to figure out how things sound and what we need to correct, we want to measure from 1) a known good point and 2) a point we can easily return to with little to no effort. If we have things turned on when we measure, it makes applying the proper corrections much more difficult than they need to be. Generally speaking, that means disabling or bypassing all the settings on the sub or setting them to a known default state. Like 0° phase, volume to the mid point of the range (or the default value), positive polarity (or inversion disabled), etc. It sounds like your sub has it's own PEQ so that should be flat. The AVR side depends on what you're using (e.g. which room correction software, miniDSP in the loop, etc). I'm not an Audyssey user, but I've seen it recommended to let at least one version of Audyssey do its thing then measure and correct the subs. For miniDSP workflows (what I use), you want to get everything measured, EQ'd and aligned in the miniDSP and then run your room correction. Keep the questions coming!
@@jeffmery Thank you, helps a lot, keep subs flat, then manually correct levels and distance as try different setting (I don't trust tiny little mic in my iphone) Audyssey really not happy with it, I change manually correct every thing else with REW results thanks Dan From Chicago, ILL
@@dandonna852 You're welcome. I wish I knew more about Audyssey and had some hands-on experience to give specific advice. The best resource I know regarding sub optimization with a heavy Audyssey influence is the thread below over on AVSForum. The first few posts in there are an extremely detailed guide on how to get the best out of an Audyssey system. www.avsforum.com/threads/guide-to-subwoofer-calibration-and-bass-preferences.2958528/
Tactile response? 🤣 Just the way my subs couple down there in my room with some room gain and a natural peak thrown in for good measure. I chose to leave it in both MSO and Dirac. We can't really hear that, but we can feel it in the air (and floor if loud enough). IIRC, if you go look up equal loudness curves, it takes something like +20-25 dB for 16 Hz to sound as loud as 100 Hz. So if 100 Hz is at 80 dB, you need 16 Hz to be at 100-105 dB just to sound the same. That's really just a 10 dB natural increase. I do think it's important to note that I'm not doing anything in REW, MSO, or Dirac down there. There's no added gain and I'm just letting the subs fall off like they do naturally. They have built in HPF for protection so I don't need to worry about damage. It does make some movies a lot more fun than others for sure though! LOL! (FWIW, I've changed the orientation of my room since this video was made. That huge peak is gone in the new sub/seating arrangement. Things are basically flat to ~16 Hz and then fall off very fast)
Great overview and guide. First time REW user here, needing to figure out sub placement (JTR Cap1400 with an incoming 4000ULF). Thanks for putting in the time/energy, really straight forward and concise!
That's some serious hardware! Congrats! Feel free to ask questions if you need help.
Fun fact: It doesn't matter what sub you measure in a location, the response of the room will be the same. WHAT?!
Say I put a 12" Klipsch sub in positions A, B, and C and take a measurement. Then I put a Cap1400 in those same positions and measure it. The resulting measurements will look VERY, VERY similar. Yes, the Cap1400 will have more extension and possibly play at a higher SPL depending on whether we took the time to calibrate that between the subs.
However, assuming we didn't touch the microphone between measurements, all the locations and shapes of the peaks and nulls in the response will be the same for each location A, B, and C between the two subs.
Given that you're waiting on new subs, and that those subs are monsters, you can save some time and back pain by "scouting" for possible locations with one of your existing subs.
@@jeffmery hoping you don't mind playing customer service for me. FINALLY got around to setting this up today, followed your walkthrough (both this and the prior setup) and everything looks solid.
My issue at the moment, when I go to take a measurement and hit "measure" I don't get any noise for timing. The sweep will happen, but the progress bar in the lower left corner will sit at 9% "waiting for timing" (or similar wording) and nothing happens. If I choose to not have any timing, the sweep works great, will output a graph, etc. This is the case for not only my LFE, but all channels. Set everything per your instructions properly in preferences and then also in the measurement window as well. Any clue?
Running through my HTP-1 (Dirac Live turned off) and just in a simple 5.1 setup (configured properly in the MIDI Setup App).
Thanks again!
@@idyfohu Hmmm ... I'm not sure. There are three things I can think of to triple check. Make sure you are using the *acoustic* timing reference and not the loopback. Second, after verifying that you've got acoustic timing reference selected, make sure that the "Ref output" is set to the same device as "Output". This will be whatever your HTP-1 shows up as to your Mac. Third, make sure the channel you're using for the "Ref output" is NOT the LFE channel. I'd try either L or R just to keep it simple for now.
@@jeffmery thanks for the reply. I'll give it a shot tomorrow. Saw a lot of others doing REW measurements without any timing, so worst case, if I can't get timing to work for whatever reason, I can at least figure out ideal placement and then I'll be running DIRAC afterwards which should optimize distance and I can tweak from there.
Now to get my stupid heights mounted. :)
Again, thanks for putting in the time/energy!
@@idyfohu There's nothing wrong, per se, with not using a timing reference. However, a LOT of the functions of REW, and other tools like MSO, won't work correctly/reliably without the timing reference. This is particularly true if you're going to use it to align anything (multiple subs, sub distance tweak, verify speaker distances, etc). It's definitely something you want to get figured out.
Good luck with the heights! I was dumb and installed my in-ceiling Atmos speakers at the end of the Texas summer. The attic was NOT fun. LOL!
Great video - you said you have some beefy LCR speakers - would you mind sharing what kind you have?
Revel F228Be for the L/R and the Revel C426Be for the C.
Thank you!
You're welcome!
sorry don't want to spam your RUclips thread but you take measurement at 5:27 using the sub channel which makes sense but in Austin Jerry guide that you link to he writes" Set REW to output to the center channel (HDMI3)" and select Pink Noise, Subwoofer Cal. that does not make sense. Can you please provide me a link to the AVS forum group that you also is a member of , that discuss these rew minidsp things
I differ in several areas from what that guide says. I do this for a few different reasons, but I won't get into those here. I'm not sure why that section says to use the center channel (I haven't read it in a while TBH). I assume it's for checking the subwoofer level against the mains. That's easier to do on a non-sub channel.
Here's the link to the main REW thread on AVS Forum: www.avsforum.com/threads/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs.1449924/
There's a separate thread on the miniDSP, but I can't find it at the moment. The REW thread crosses over with the other one so it should be a good place to start.
@@jeffmery thank you very much
I would say not one of the best but the best tutorial on REW for HT sub. I have macOS 12.2. AvNirvana and the Rew site has the dmg supported upto 11.6. Any suggestions ? Please also make more videos on how to eq all the channels together ( not just the subs) to get the best sound. please also let know while calibrating subs what should the default sub distance settings in the avr.
Thank you for the kind words! I can't take all the credit. I just put some visuals and words to the great guide from Enrico Claudio @ Rythmik Audio here in Austin.
I am using REW 5.20.5 on MacOS 12.3 with no issues. It should work just fine as it's based on Java, includes its own JRE, and the DMG file has a universal binary so it works regardless of Intel or M1 processor.
I don't plan to do any videos covering full range, manual equalization. The vast majority of people are using some kind of room correction which allows for that functionality in a more automated way. Depending on what is specifically in use, it may also be possible to specify either limited or full range target curves to help with equalization. Audyssey, Dirac, and ARC all allow for custom target curves. I believe the latest YPAO version from Yamaha (finally) allows this as well.
As far as setting the sub distance, I'd recommend that you allow your room correction software to take the first shot at getting it right. Some of them do a better job than others. However, I always recommend running room correction to get the distances and levels of your speakers set. You can then measure the frequency response of the Center and the L+R to see how it looks. If there is a dip at the crossover frequency that you, or the room correction, selected, you will then need to adjust the sub distance in the AVR to fix that.
This is called a "sub distance tweak" so if you google that, there are plenty of guides to get that sorted out.
Fantastic overview, Jeff.
I followed this to the letter (MacOS Sonoma; MacBook Air; UMIK-1; Marantz Cinema-50 via HDMI)…at least I believe so. When I tried to capture my first measurement I received an Audio Device Error message (unable to replay device…little-endian not supported). Perhaps worth noting that my first attempt before receiving my uber-long HDMI cable was via Bluetooth and no such issue.
Any suggestions, where to troubleshoot?
That is one that I have never seen before. I run everything on Sonoma now too without issues. Did you get the error on bluetooth or on the first run with the HDMI cable? I've never tried to measure over BT. I bet there are some issues doing that. I don't have a processor that supports BT or I'd try it out myself to see what happens.
@@jeffmery Seems to have sorted with new beta. Working beautifully now. Appreciate the reply. 🙏🏻
@@jaymitchoskyAwesome. John has been releasing betas pretty quickly prior to a new version dropping soon. Hard to keep up with them but glad it fixed it for you!
Geez this guy is all over the place.... knowledgeable but over kill after over kill
I have a MiniDSP SHD (2x4) in 2.1 setup. Sub is connected to output 3 of the minidsp with one single Sub cable. left and right channel are both enabled for output 3. (normal sub integration) When generating the sub calibration sound in REW, and measuring do I need to select as output left or right speaker, or do I select both left and right in REW? The sound that is generated by the sub sound different when using only left or right and left + right..
I see you have the possibility to select LFE output, but because the Minidsp SHD this is a stereo device this is not listed I guess?
Thank you for this helpful video!
If you're generating a normal sweep or pink noise, the only difference between sweeping L, R, and L+R should be the volume level. L+R will be louder. If the curves don't match between L, R, and L+R (I.E., they're different shapes and not just the same shape at different levels) then something else is going on.
Are you manually configuring and EQing everything or are you using Dirac Live?
13:50
I just found your videos. I´m very interesting to see all of them, but specially all about MSO since I´ll have 2 HSU subwoofers 15" very soon. One question about AVR/Processor, should I to set some parameters like XO, distances, and level? Should I put them as factory default? thank you!
That's largely covered in the video(s) for MSO. The one difference is around distances. In the video, I recommend setting everything to 0 ms. It's better to use some arbitrary value like 10 ms for everything. Some AVRs even use a default of 12 ms or something (Denon I think). There won't be a difference in output, but the 10 ms gives you a buffer to move things in or out in the event the subs need less delay to properly integrate.
Needed some clarification on the sub integration using a miniDSP with Audyssey. I read some of the details in the massive post on AVForums and also your previous video, and comments.
So basically, I should run Audyssey with the subs first. Make sure subs are in the red zone. Second, I should connect the miniDSP to the subs and avr. Then change distances for subs to 0, their channel levels to also 0 and their self volume level to midpoint. Then perform the measurement using REW and UMIK?
How do I go on from there? And additionally should I disable the Sub EQ using the audyssey App by taking filter all the way to the end?
I also have nulls around 20Hz and 50-63Hz. Massive nulls but my fronts at their locations are completely flat at those frequencies, so should I bring my subs closer to those locations then? Subs are SB16s x2, fronts are Kef R11.
There are a couple of things to unpack above. I'm going to tackle them a bit out of order from the way you asked.
RE: Sub positions - This really depends on the way the subs interact with the room, and where the seating position is in relation to those interactions. You want to get the subs in the best positions first, then worry about EQ and room correction. The best way to do this is a "sub crawl". If you google that, there are tons of videos. Ignore those that put the sub in the MLP. You want the mic in the MLP and move the sub around. It's more work, but the results are better.
Once you have the best locations, you can think of EQ and integrating them together. I've got a video on how to do this with REW here: ruclips.net/video/ARztXSmoQbE/видео.html.
Once you have your subs EQ'd, then you can run room correction (Audyssey) and finally verify the results (and do the "sub distance tweak" if needed to smooth the crossover region).
When taking "raw" measurements, you want Audyseey turned off. Sub distances and levels within your AVR should be set at 0. On the subs, phase should be 0°, delay should be 0 ms, and volume should NOT be maxed out. The SVS app allows super granular volume control so set those subs to the same level; something like -20 dB should be fine. If we need more/less output during the Audyssey calibration, we can adjust the volume as needed by the exact same amount on each sub (love that about SVS subs BTW; no knobs to fiddle with).
There's a lot to unpack here so let me know if this response helps or causes even more confusion.
Where was your mic volume set at in the computer?
I'm 99% sure the UMIK defaults to 100% on Mac OS. I can't check for a while since my theater is down for some changes.
@@jeffmery ok I’m on windows The reason why I asked, is my Mic was at 100% and I kept getting clipping …. until I turned the microphone down in the computer then it worked
My issue is my Noise floor is similar to yours, I cannot hit 85dB s it start clipping and then shuts off.this is with both subs playing or single sub.when I run the sweep at 80dB my headroom drops to 10dB where as yours is at 20dB. This does not make sense.please advise thanks.
A little easier way to set the level is to just take a sweep that's loud enough to measure. Switch to the "Distortion" tab. At the bottom, you want to select the "Fundamental" and "Noise Floor" traces only. Look at the difference between these. In the video I said 40 dB, but anything 30 dB and up should be fine. Just look at the separation between the two lines and that will tell you if the sweep is loud enough.
When you said you were adjusting the volume to get to 85 db we’re you adjusting the volume on the processor or subwoofer? And if it was on the processor where do you set your volume on your sub as a starting point?
Processor volume to get 85 dB. My subs are all identical so I set their controls to the mid-point of their range to start. This leaves room to increase/decrease the volume on the subs post calibration if needed. It's incredibly important to note ....
If you need to adjust the sub gain control after calibration, each sub must be adjusted in the same direction by the exact same amount to avoid the need to fully recalibrate them. Some subs make this easier than others by having either digital controls or detents on the gain knobs.
what does the acoustic timing reference do? I understand that I have need to set it in order for the time aligning tool to work. Can I use your guides with acoustic timing reference set and use your time align video then eq flat again using your video, then run audyssey and then switch to home theatre gurus guide to add a harmon curve?
Sound we hear has two ways of looking at it. One way is in the frequency domain. That's the frequency sweeps that people tend to focus on. The other way is the time domain. This looks at the timing of the sound and frequencies we hear. These two "domains" are looking at the exact same thing, the sound, from two different perspectives: Frequency and Time.
Time is very important. Many of the things we look at depend on time, and particularly phase. In order to get accurate comparisons, we need an accurate frequency and time view of the sound.
To get an accurate time view, we must have a timing reference. The acoustic timing reference is one method to get accurate timing for all of our measurements so they can be fully compared.
You should *always* use a timing reference. The acoustic timing reference is the one you must use with USB microphones.
The process you outline above looks very reasonable!
@@jeffmery again thanks for replying. That I understood 😊I have the umik 1 microphone so I will try that
@@jeffmery I have just read in the pdf from Austin Jerry that you recommend, that "it must be a full-range speaker" I have MK Sound mp150. That is a satellite speaker that have 3 tweeters and 2 woofers. Can I then not use Acoustic Timing Reference
?
@@michaelbested123456 The only requirement is that the speaker has a tweeter. It doesn't need to be "full range" down into the low frequencies. A subwoofer cannot be used for an acoustic timing reference.
From the REW help file: "The timing signal is a sweep from 5 kHz to 20 kHz lasting about 700 ms. It must be directed to a speaker that can reproduce high frequencies, one that has a tweeter."
@@jeffmery 👍thank you
Before all the alignments using rew+mini dsp. What do we do with the distance of subs in the avr? Should it be set to zero or do manual distance and set the distance. Or first step is to use room correction and use the sub distance set as our starting point to proceed with the alignments using rew+mini dsp?
My personal preference is to zero everything out (distances and levels), then align and EQ the subs via your chosen method (REW, MSO), then run your room correction software. After room correction has been run, you'll likely need to verify the integration of the subs and mains (except Dirac+DLBC and the current Anthem ARC beta).
I have 3 subs connected to a miniDSP 2x4HD. How can I use Acoustic Timing Reference when I using a stereo system?
My pre-amp has XLR that I connect to my stereo amp and RCA that I am using for the miniDSP.
You need to use something with a tweeter as the timing reference. I’d temporarily connect the miniDSP to the R channel output. Use L for timing and R to sweep subs. Hopefully you have RCA that can be used and not just XLR
I would say this is close to perfect !😊 But you forgot to mention that you will have to calibrate your mic before you can use it.
Watch first video of this series
I have a nagging question: Say the combined SPL for all 4 subs is 100db at -15 on the AVR Master Volume but each of the individual subs (all identical makes/models) have varying SPLs (e.g. Right Sub: 85db, Front Sub: 80db, Left Sub: 82db, Rear Sub: 79db); when performing measurements should you adjust the Master Volume in the AVR to bring each sub up/down to 40db above the noise floor (in my case noise floor is 39 db) or should you run each sub at their ‘relative’ volume (e.g. Rear sub at 79db, Left sub: 82db, etc.)?
I would think you should run each sub at their relative volume so that MSO can correctly set the gains?
I'm making an assumption that this is for the measurements used as input into MSO for optimization. With identical subs, set the gain control on the sub to the exact same position on each sub. I'd suggest the middle position for a knob or -15 dB or so for SVS Pro subs with digital controls. Yes, they'll have different levels at the listening positions, but that's okay. It's what we're here to fix. It's more important to have identical subs working equally hard. It makes things significantly easier to adjust in the long run.
In the AVR, I'd set the sub trim level to 0.0 dB. I'd set the distance to 15-20 feet. That last bit contradicts one of my earlier recommendations. The main reason for setting it to "not zero" is so we can both add *and* remove delay when we go to do the sub distance tweak to integrate the subs and mains at the crossover with Audyssey after the calibration.
Now that the subs are working equally as hard, set the main volume on the AVR so the first sub is 30-40 dB above the noise floor (the higher end is better but don't blow out your ears, equipment, family, or neighbors ;-)). Once you set the main volume, write down the level and don't touch it again. You're writing it down in case it is accidentally changed.
I try to stick to your tutorial while doing sub cal. Though other rew tutorials on YT says to keep sub spl at 75db using the tone generator and no one talk about +40db to your noise floor and considering that tutorial suggests 85db. Which is more accurate 75db or 85db for sub cal?
The distance above the noise floor is more important than the specific SPL. The sweeps need to be loud enough that the ambient noise doesn't impact the measurement. The ambient noise level will vary from room to room. Because the noise floor can vary, sometimes significantly, we can't know if you need to sweep at 75 dB or 85 dB or something else. 30 - 40 dB above the noise floor should be plenty. Most rooms not specifically built from the ground up will have a noise floor between 40 - 50 dB. Add 30 - 40 dB to those numbers and you should end up somewhere between 70 - 90 dB.
To find the noise floor, take a sweep of the subs at a given SPL. Switch to the "Distortion" view in REW. At the bottom of the graph, select the "Fundamental" and "Noise Floor" traces. Finally, in the upper left of the graph, change the y-axis units to "SPL". You may need to change the graph limits to show from 0 - 100 dB or something similar to see the noise floor trace.
The noise floor will typically slowly rise from 100 Hz down to 0 Hz. I typically look at the 20 Hz noise floor level and add 30 - 40 dB from there.
I hope this helps.
@@jeffmery Just for clarification purposes, I am running three subs so the Sub Sweeping method (40dB above noise floor), I need to set each individual sub 40dB above noise floor reach 85dB SPL first. Then I need to do my sweeps with all three subs combined(Unmuted in miniDSP). Thank you advance for the clarification. Love your videos.
@@martinmares8998 If the subs are identical, set the gain control on the sub to the same level. If the subs are not identical, then do what you described above. Everything else is correct if your goal is to see what the subs are doing together in the room.
If your goal is to see what they are doing so you can align and EQ them, look at my videos on aligning and EQ-ing multiple subs.
Yes my goal is to see what my subs are doing so I can level match, Time Align and EQ them. Thank you in advance for making these great educational videos. I got in late to the home theater hobby and I'm learning so much from your videos.
@@jeffmery Can this sub measuring method (40dB above noise floor) be applied to any AVR? And if so, are we required to change any settings in the AVR? The reason I'm asking is because I have a Denon AVR. Thank you.
Hey Jeff - when I run my pink noise generator on the LFE channel/sub cal, it does not come from my subs, only my center channel? I have both set to LFE however in REW?
I've noticed that sometimes REW switches channels 3 (center) and 4 (LFE). No idea why this happens, but I've seen it on different AVRs and with different cables.
Only set one channel to LFE. I usually just swap 3 & 4 and call it good. You'll need to check it each time you run sweeps. I believe this is only a Mac OS thing. I haven't researched it in depth.
@@jeffmery thanks - i have it now playing out the LFE channel. Only thing, it also looks like Ike it’s playing the center channel too! Should i simply unplug the center channel to start?
@@L3x4Pr0ne Yep. Just temporarily unplug that speaker.
Hi, I have a four way PA system with independent DSP for each channel and no passive crossovers (all DSP crossover) and I want to use REW and a calibrated mic to manage each part of the system (EQs and crossovers) to get everything balanced properly. I am really struggling to find any reference materials or videos on this type of system setup. Can you help? [system has subs, mid bass, mids and high frequency drivers. Crown XTI amplifiers with DSP]
Thanks for the question! I have zero hands on experience with this, but I understand the concept. I think the confusion may be that with this type of speaker (requiring external digital crossovers), is that there's effectively two layers of DSP.
The first layer is typically used to implement the active crossover settings required by the speaker. REW can be used for near-field measurements of each driver, in the cabinet, to determine what the crossover design should be. This is way above my knowledge level though; I'm definitely not a speaker designer! LOL! Commercially manufactured speakers will have the active crossover settings specified by said speaker designer/manufacturer. This is almost always implemented "close" to the speaker such as within the Crown amps you have. However, it can be implemented further upstream depending on the equipment. Trinnov, for example, supports up to 4-way active crossovers for exactly this purpose. If you need to figure out the correct crossover settings for your PA speakers, I'd search for something like "using REW for active crossover design".
The second layer of DSP is typically used for "room correction" purposes; think time alignment, EQ, house curves, etc. When the active crossover is implemented in the amp, the room correction is typically done upstream of the amp. This is where you'd use REW to measure the speakers in the room, and then use DSP (again, upstream of the amps) to make changes according to your needs. This could be in a stand-alone DSP device or in an AVR/Processor. If you need help with setting the speakers up in a room, then the process will be more dependent on the equipment you're using than anything else. I'd try to search for equipment-specific tutorials. REW can take measurements and EQ to a target curve, but the implementation is different for subs vs full-range speakers and for different equipment.
I'm sorry I'm not more helpful on this, but hopefully it helps get you on the right path to finding the answers.
@@jeffmery thank you so much for the fantastic reply 👍 yes, I think you are right, I am probably trying to solve too many variables in one process. The DSP in the amps allows for independent crossovers and EQ for each driver so I will start with getting that flat and balanced and then look at the room EQ upstream once the system is effectively one ‘speaker’ and one ‘sub’.
I have SVS pb4k subs, is -15 on the app a good volume to use while taking sub sweeps with 40db above noise floor trim with AVR volume? I’m not sure what -15 in the SVS app is meant to be? Possibly 50%?
The TL;DR is -15 on the SVS app is as good a point as any to start. Don't be afraid to turn that up some after you're done if you need more output. Depending on your room correction software, you may need to use the SVS app to adjust the subs louder or softer to work the best with your equipment.
Hearing and power are logarithmic so "50%" comes at unintuitive places. It also depends on 50% "of what". I have an SB-1000 Pro in my desk setup. I just looked and the range in the app is -60 - 0 dBFS.
If we are talking SPL and what we're hearing, a change of 10 dB is considered to be "twice as loud". -10 dB would be half as loud as 0 dB. -20 dB would be half again or 25% as loud as 0 dB. So -15 dB is somewhere between 25% and 50% as loud as 0 dB from what our ears hear.
If we're talking about power 50% represents a change of -3 dB (double the power = increase by 3 dB so if we halve the power we get -3 dB). So from a power perspective -3 dB on the SVS app would be 50% of the amp's rated power at 0 dB.
@@jeffmery thanks for your response, I ended up running -20 on both subs (pb4k) and my avm90 was set to -19.5 to get 40db above my noise floor at the MLP (subs measured separately not combined) using LFE, now to re run ARC with a better flat response, thank you for the detailed video! I seem to be getting better performance from my subs with miniDSP combined with ARC over just ARC controlling the subs calibration and so far the only difference had been an amplitude change in the SVS app, the best ARC file I made was with the SVS app set to -20, I recently use miniDSP to get a flat response although I used a slightly different setup method, subs set to -10db on app and AVM90 set to -33db to get 75db from mains at MLP separately to subs as well as getting 75db at MLP with subs separately to mains, this gave me literally one headroom and had me wondering why then I came across this video, the nicest flat EQ I could get was set to 75db in REW so it already had my subs jacked up to get a flat response at 75db when I like to run about a 10db house curve 100hz to 30hz, so I knew something wasn’t quite right although it was the best performance from my subs yet but I need to do more experimenting to compare miniDSP vs ARC on its own, I now have a flat response from miniDSP with my SVS app dialed in to the same level as I have been using with ARC on its own so this should be a much better comparison even though amplitude shouldn’t make a difference after room correction but I just want to eliminate that from the equation
@@njrumenos If I may make a suggestion - I think you can simplify things if you stop worrying about the gain on the subs so much. The goal with most room correction is that the subs should *not* be the loudest speaker. If we translate that into room correction terms, the gain on the sub in the AVR/Processor should not be the highest value among all speakers.
For example, on Dirac and Trinnov, the subs should not be 0.0 dB. Some other speaker should be 0.0 dB and the subs should have some negative trim value. With Audyssey, the guideline is aiming for -11 dB or so.
Once those levels are established, there's no need to fiddle with the sub gains at all. I'm typically able to set the physical sub gain (or SVS app gain in your case) once, and then manage it all digitally through trims during a calibration.
@@jeffmery yeah ok, when I first did miniDSP with ARC and had my sub gains on -10, ARC set the sub level trim to +0.5db and my mains always the same about +2.5db, I have not yet had time to re run ARC with the newest miniDSP EQ
On your Mac, what do you set the mic input? I thought it'd be disabled. but when plug in the umik1 it sets it all the way to 100% which then reads super hot, normal voice talking shows over 75db. doesn't look right. other tutorial said to set the mic input with MIDI, and target 0db (75% in), other said, -9db., I'm so confused as to why a ref. SPL would allow a gain. it kinds of defeats the purpose of measuring accurately, no? I feel I'm missing something
With REW I don't recall ever having to set the mic level. Admittedly, my theater has been down for 6-7 weeks for a small renovation so it's been a while. I"ll see if I can find my mic in the mess and refresh my memory.
I haven't forgotten about you. Just taking a lot longer to get my room buttoned up. Should be able to verify this for you soon.
@@jeffmery thank you! :)
@@ericf3688 Finally found my mics and set them up. Apologies again the delay. My UMIK-2 is at 0.0 dB or all the way up. My UMIK-1 cannot be adjusted in the MIDI controls on Mac OS. The UMIK-1 is locked all the way up. Measuring each mic separately in REW, using their associated calibration files, and they are just about on top of one another.
USB mics don't typically need much fiddling with. It's really the XLR mics and external audio interfaces that need to be adjusted using input gain. I'm actually learning about that right now. However, all of the gain adjustments on the inputs (mics) are done on the external audio interface and not within Mac OS.
@@jeffmery Thank you for looking into it! and it is strange because my umik1 is not locked. and as soon as I plug it in, it goes to 100% but looks way too hot. looks like I have to drop it to 78% or so.
have use my REW while the spl meter not responding (not working)
I've had this happen a couple of times. The fix was always to completely close REW, then disconnect the mic from the laptop, wait 10-15 seconds, plug the mic back in, and then restart REW. Make sure it sees the mic and that the mic is selected as the input device (not "Default Device").
@@jeffmery Didn't work for me so try few times then I deleted the REW then downloaded REW and new REW worked also came updated app (it works)
turn up from sub or av volume?
Hi Dan. Can you narrow down the context of your question a little bit more for me? I want to be sure I answer it correctly for you. Is this in relation to overall volume to get good measurement levels above the noise floor?
@@jeffmery My Subs has own volume control and room correction thought blue tooth or should I rest sub so they play flat
and forget about room correction for above the noise floor? or difference in using volume control on AV? First time user REW
@@dandonna852 Ahh I understand now. Thanks for clarifying. When we're trying to figure out how things sound and what we need to correct, we want to measure from 1) a known good point and 2) a point we can easily return to with little to no effort.
If we have things turned on when we measure, it makes applying the proper corrections much more difficult than they need to be.
Generally speaking, that means disabling or bypassing all the settings on the sub or setting them to a known default state. Like 0° phase, volume to the mid point of the range (or the default value), positive polarity (or inversion disabled), etc. It sounds like your sub has it's own PEQ so that should be flat.
The AVR side depends on what you're using (e.g. which room correction software, miniDSP in the loop, etc). I'm not an Audyssey user, but I've seen it recommended to let at least one version of Audyssey do its thing then measure and correct the subs. For miniDSP workflows (what I use), you want to get everything measured, EQ'd and aligned in the miniDSP and then run your room correction.
Keep the questions coming!
@@jeffmery Thank you, helps a lot, keep subs flat, then manually correct levels and distance as try different setting (I don't trust tiny little mic in my iphone) Audyssey really not happy with it, I change manually correct every thing else with REW results thanks Dan From Chicago, ILL
@@dandonna852 You're welcome. I wish I knew more about Audyssey and had some hands-on experience to give specific advice.
The best resource I know regarding sub optimization with a heavy Audyssey influence is the thread below over on AVSForum. The first few posts in there are an extremely detailed guide on how to get the best out of an Audyssey system.
www.avsforum.com/threads/guide-to-subwoofer-calibration-and-bass-preferences.2958528/
Doesn't work. App has permissions to mic. Still asks for mic permissions.
I'm sorry I can't help with this one. I would check the REW support forum over on AVNirvana.com.
What the christ is going on under 20hz in your room? 😂
Tactile response? 🤣
Just the way my subs couple down there in my room with some room gain and a natural peak thrown in for good measure. I chose to leave it in both MSO and Dirac. We can't really hear that, but we can feel it in the air (and floor if loud enough). IIRC, if you go look up equal loudness curves, it takes something like +20-25 dB for 16 Hz to sound as loud as 100 Hz. So if 100 Hz is at 80 dB, you need 16 Hz to be at 100-105 dB just to sound the same. That's really just a 10 dB natural increase.
I do think it's important to note that I'm not doing anything in REW, MSO, or Dirac down there. There's no added gain and I'm just letting the subs fall off like they do naturally. They have built in HPF for protection so I don't need to worry about damage.
It does make some movies a lot more fun than others for sure though! LOL!
(FWIW, I've changed the orientation of my room since this video was made. That huge peak is gone in the new sub/seating arrangement. Things are basically flat to ~16 Hz and then fall off very fast)