Finding your channel has been one of the best things to happen to me. I'm 15 and just now realizing that i don't find this religion true. I couldn't figure out how to leave without it hurting my family but watching your channel has made me realize that it will be for the good of myself, and my family will accept me eventually and if they don't, their loss i guess. I will still be okay. Even though you don't get much views or subscribers i hope you know you really are helping the ones who do watch you and you continue to make videos.
I know it's over a year later but I'm only finding this channel now and I'm binge watching but i just wanted to say that i hope you were successful on leaving the church without too much hassle from your family and friend and i hope you are in a good place now,best wishes.
tiger bush that is almost all religions, how many times have Islamic parents beaten or killed their own kids or the child not adhering to Islam, Christian families dis owning their kids because their gay. Religions in general create a us against them attitude.
Agreed. I was told by my parent that I straight up wasn’t going to heaven and I wouldn’t have God in my life anymore because I removed my name from the church records.
About the whole "it would be better if my child died than if they fell away," That was actually how I was taught growing up Mormon in Texas, so I think its a fairly common teaching. The way it was worded to me was that "The only greater sin than murder is leaving the church after having been given the gift of the gospel." Which is mental.
I've absolutely heard that stuff about death > leaving. After my brother attempted suicide, my father didn't want to pay for therapy because he genuinely believed that his son was better off killing himself than living on outside of the church. And not even because he'd be happier, or free from mental illness, but because he wouldn't be capable of committing any further "sin". It's really sickening.
When people say, "I know you'll come back", they are _invalidating your sincerity_ in having been convinced that the church doesn't live up to its truth claims. They are essentially telling you what you do and/or don't believe. But they have to think that in order to validate their own beliefs. It's either that or telling you that you've never really had a "spiritual experience." Which I would agree with _technically,_ but what is in question is what the ex-Mormon _believed_ the experience to be at the time they had it, and invalidating _that_ sincerity from the past.
Yes! I got that from the person who originally invited me to the Mormon church when I left, and she kept telling me, "Wander all you need to, because I know you'll be back. This is the true church, you know." It sucked because it felt like my experience with the church slowly breaking me was being dismissed and that I was "not ready" for the blessings (Got told that, too).
Yes. You _have_ to go back. In the mind of the indoctrinated, any sincere seeker of truth will ultimately be led into the church or _back_ into the church. They equate "truth" with "the Mormon gospel" which is a deceptive and presupposing association to begin with.
I've never had that happen since luckily my mother doesnt force me to go. And I think they would criticize me if I was forced to go and I voice it. I do think my grandparents and mother are disappointed but they do let me do what I want and will not try to change that. Also my mom says she thinks she might not believe in Mormonism but she believes in jesus and God. Because of the LGBT policy, since she has a gay brother and gender fluid sibling, so she supports them but her religion doesnt. So I think she is questioning Mormonism but not christianity
When I was still at home at struggling with the church I started to openly 'rebel' against the (Mormon) things my mum wanted me to do and she told me that I was going to hell in a handbasket and that she wasn't going to let me take my siblings down with me. Yeah, a great thing to tell a 16-year-old - my issues with the church ended up being one of the main reasons I wasn't welcome in her house anymore. Ah, Mormons are so understanding and compassionate...
I hear stuff like this, and I'm at least a little hopeful that the whole pearly gates thing is real. Just so st. Peter can laugh in their faces when they try to say they were christ-like 😆
My dad told me that he would rather see me DEAD AND BURIED, than not married in the temple. Hey, that's a good band name! Introducing the punk band... Dead and Buried! I think he stole that phrase from an LDS apostle. p.s. a boom mic or lavaliere might help with sound and reducing ambient noise so we can hear you better. Also, I'm married to an audio aficionado, you might have see his work 315 East Broadway (Boozetique) SLC he can set it up.
I will never go back to Utah. Am currently being shunned by family like (how many?) other awakened exmormons. The leadership influencing them to do this is just one more glaring sign they are wrong wrong wrong!
Common Chris Utah is the worst State for this, ignoring this kind of behavior from Church members has been very easy for me and my husband however. Considering his entire family are TBM it can get interesting!!! BUT we love where we live and I will never let other’s bigotry keep me from my happiness.
One of the difficult thoughts I had when I was thinking about growing outside the church was that I didn't know WHO I was outside of those boundaries. My husband had told me I'd still be the same person, I just would be doing certain things in a different way. Now that I've left the church, I can say that this is very true. I am still very sensitive, spiritual, (in other, more fulfilling ways) MORAL (what a surprise!) And still hold very strong to who I am as a person. I would say what has changed about me has been nothing but positive things. I'm less judgemental, I'm less anxious, I trust in myself more, and it's overall very exciting to see things in such different perspectives, and see all the colors and beauty life has to offer us. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and videos with us. :)
Omg I just found out about y’all’s Chanel and I’m in love!!!!! I’m 15 and an agnostic and highkey wanna leave the church. Y’all seem so happy/have such nice vibes and I feel like that’s just so much better than a formalized religious life yknow. Y’all’s channel is so great🥺🥺✨
My sister and I have 4 other (live) siblings, but she and I walked away as full on adults. I was over 30 and she was close to forty. We're the only ones who escaped. I felt some guilt about putting my mom through that. But my older sister explained something important that may comfort you too. She says that by leaving, we've given our mother a gift. Now she can pray for us and be kind to us and have hope that we'll come back. She was definitely the original Martyr Mom. It fit right into her tool box. Thanks for sharing your stories. I feel the solidarity!
In the end of being apart of the church, the only thing I was upset about was how personally they were gonna take it. But once I realized that I had to stop living my life for them and be making decisions based on how they'd react, I stopped right then and there, because I knew I would never be happy as long as I wasnt making decisions based on what I felt I needed. I have never ever been happier now that I've left the church. These videos and the comments really help with letting me know I'm not alone. So thank you❤
Wow. This reminds me a lot about telling my parents I was attracted to the same sex. Coming from a really religious family, they simply couldn't comprehend the possibility of me feeling romantic love for a man. All it could be was Satan attempting to draw me into a false joy before ultimately destroying me. They kept (and keep) coming up with new rationalizations: I was addicted to the sex (intercourse this time), I didn't want to do the work of building a relationship with a woman, Satan had perverted my perceptions of male friendships, etc. Even now, they make sure to tell me about gay men they know who've contracted STD's, gay men with depression, and predators exposed on Grindr, as though that's all that can come out of, as they say "that lifestyle". It really hurts, because I told them while I was struggling with depression, so I can somewhat understand the association they've made. And I've never doubted that they loved me and wanted the best for me. But they've also made it clear that I couldn't live with them or interact with my siblings if I were to pursue a relationship with a man, so now I've essentially retreated back into the closet. But let's focus on the positive. Thanks a lot for your videos, Zelph on the Shelf. I know this one wasn't LGBT-oriented, but hearing how those leaders tried to project their own reasons as to why people leave the church really resonated with me. It's always good to know I'm not alone in this struggle. Again, thanks for the video, can't wait to see more.
Too bad that more LDS won’t accept the fact that you are BORN homosexual, just like you’re born heterosexual. You can’t choose your eye color anymore than you can choose your sexuality. Focus on accepting yourself! Live your own truth! There’s a happy life waiting for you. It’s always scary to leave the Church but so worth it. You’re kept there through fear tactics. What are their fear tactics? You’re not going to have your family in the next life has to be their number 1! But think about that. Does that sound like a loving god who doesn’t make mistakes, who condemned you to life as “gay”? Use the mind you were born with and think about the arguments that are being poured on you. If you think it through, the arguments are founded in fear and prejudice. Choose to love and accept yourself. You deserve happiness! You’ll be surprised how many people there are who are willing to accept you just the way you are. Your future is bright and shining!
I know this a year after the fact, but this hurt me so much to read. :'( Really hope your journey (and... theirs) has taken a better turn. Peace and joy, friend
I love all your videos. Born in and raised JW, everything you say strikes a deep note with me. Thanks for all your insightful and fun videos. Laughing is the best !
Wildcard Skates err.. no birthdays and blood transfusions. Not being allowed to be alone with a member of the opposite sex, no pledge of allegiance, no singing. I think JW’s are mulch stricter.
I just want to add one more thing in a pseudo reply to the people who wrote this article that you reviewed... Bitch, you don't know my life! You don't have one clue about how I feel and why I left the church. I loath how they always assert that they know the hearts and minds of people who have left...in Jesus' name Amen (jokes) 😵
We are newly resigned, however 1 adult child is currently in the church and 1 other adult child a "jack Mormon". We pray EVERYDAY AND MANY TIMES A DAY!!!!!
When one of my cousins left the church with his wife and their kids, my aunt said that it was the worst day of her life, even worse than when she found out one of her other children had stage 4 lung cancer that was spreading into his spine and they didn't know if he would make it (luckily his treatment is working and he's on the path to recovery). I lost so much respect for her on that day.
lmao it's so true that Mormons treat their children leaving like it was a matter of life or death. My mother cried like I died when I got a navel piercing, man she must have thought so much worse when I left! ....no regrets
Same I was born in and grew up in Ireland. I was bullied in primary school because my parents weren't together. And I know that it had to have come from their parents at home. What 7 year old knows the 'proper' meaning of the word "bastard", or says that another child's parent is going to hell to suffer for eternity for their sins, and other shit like that. Looking back as an adult, it is really disturbing.
I love your videos. I think a lot of people really need this sort of moral support as they come to terms with the wavering image of the "only true and living church" which is rapidly losing its religious monopoly.
I've watched quite a few of your videos. Thank you both for what you're doing, I know you're right. I left the church a long, long time ago, and have discovered that there's hatred and loathing for me, from every church member that hears it. Not good, but a real strength that you can share with people like me. Bless both your hearts, thank you.
I read something recently about grace..grace comes from the Greek charis meaning to have joy. Lovely thought that God loves us and gives us love and experiences great joy in doing so.
So, although I grew up surrounded by Mormons and come from a ‘perfect Mormon household’, I myself never showed much interest in the church, and slowly drifted away during my moody earlier teenage years. My best friend also grew up Mormon, but was very religious initially, and now is fairly actively anti-Mormon. She’s the one who actually showed me this channel. Although I wouldn’t consider myself all that ‘anti-Mormon’ because I lost all interest in the church-positive and negative interest-quite a while ago, I still really love your channel. I just finished my first year of college, which was also my first year to really take time and experience a life with less Mormon influences and start to discover what I want for myself. I really enjoy your videos and viewpoints, and it’s helping me to begin living healthier, in areas such as relationships and self love, etc. It’s especially useful as I attempt to distance myself from Mormon culture and all the ideologies I had piled into my head growing up. Basically (tl;dr), love your content, even though I’m no hardcore anti-Mormon. Keep it up!
Love all those breathing plants! I really enjoy you two. People get very weird about people leaving the church, especially children. Oh my...the influences of the world!!!
I come from a long line of Mormons. My ancestors came with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to Utah. But a lot of my current family are mostly Jack Mormons. My sister has taken her daughter to church often before the the pandemic. My niece is just turned 8 and is going to be getting baptized in August. Because we are from Utah it is almost expected to be baptized into the religion. I just hope that at some point she will see the light and leave the cult one day. Fortunately for me, no one really cared that I left the church. I have even had my records removed. I was raised to be aloud to choose for myself what I wanted to believe and when I was 12 I chose to be baptized into the church and I went to church every week trying to get a testimony, but never truly got one. I also liked a lot about having one so I could do all the activities with all the other young women of the church. When I turned 18 I went to relief society once and was told that I need to go to the singles ward. I didn't want tot go to the singles ward. I just wanted to go where I was comfortable. I new that they were just trying to get me married off and I wasn't ready for that. I wanted to live life and have experiences. I never had a testimony anyway so I took a break from the church for a while and then left completely realizing that it just wasn't for me. I guess I am just one of the lucky ones that have a family that really didn't care what I wanted to do. I am happier without the church then I ever was when I was in it. I wish I could stop my sister from baptizing my niece, but ultimately my niece wants to be baptized and I can't do anything about it.
I love your videos! I have strugled with religion all my life. As someone who is transitioning from the church with a family that are all true believers, it is difficult. Thank you for your videos.
In regards to things mormon's say after you leave. Left the church a few years ago although a friend from out of state recently found out told me "it's okay that you have left but I feel so terribly sad for you" completely genuine in her approach. Obviously explained to her it's certainly not something to be sad about as we are not and reversed the scenario but I guess she needed to express her sadness of us turning to the darkness. I don't want to compare but looking at both of our families situations our family despite our unworthiness has progressed much more speedily but yet she has sadness for our situation and still needed to express how prayer and tithing are essential to mental health and growth...
Oh also I had the missionaries come by twice. And a family (my parents) friends from the Mormon church bring treats and told me they wanted to come visit and the wife wants me to call her I don’t want people to try to bring me back I’m happy and liberated out thanks!:)
It’s sad the assumptions some Mormons have about people who have left the church. I grew up Mormon, I’m not anymore. One of my friends whom I caught up with recently found out I’m not Mormon anymore and he said wait are you into drugs or something? And I was like omg dude, I didn’t leave because I wanted to do drugs, I left because it’s what I wanted. Like, just because I’m not Mormon doesn’t mean I’m gonna go off and do other things...I’m still the same person I just don’t like Mormonism haha. Like wow dude
My in-laws were more grieved, angry, and upset when my wife left the LDS than when a few years later when our 3month old daughter passed away in their friends care.
The only calling I've ever been extended where the person issuing the call told me I could potentially be excommunicated was as a clerk. He told me that errors with tithing could result in excommunication. Even when I was called to be counselor in the bishopric they didn't say anything about the seriousness of that calling, just told me I had to shave my beard.
At the beginning of my journey to atheism, (well I think I'm a bit agnostic too) my mother would force me but after a few months, she realized it was making worse, with depression and anxiety. At that time I was already struggling with depression and anxiety so going to church put more burden on me. So she let me not to go and told me she was sorry to force me (this was maybe a year after her not forcing me) I havent dealt with alot of the influence of the church after that, which I'm really glad about. I've never heard of the LGBT policy they passed 4 years ago since I was just mostly not caring about the world in general but hearing it was a thing, it made me glad I left the church. My mother is also questioning Mormonism, but she does believe in jesus and God, so she might go to an actual Christian church and leave Mormonism. Or she might just not go to any church and just keep following God's teaching in the bible to love everyone and not judge others. But I think that will happen years later.
Great job! It would be interesting if you did an episode on the book, "Visions of Glory"...If you haven't already. So many things wrong with it. That book set my entire family into an end of the world frenzy.
Samantha you are so right! Whenever I heard the phrase unconditional love as a child always in the back of my mind in thought, "you love me no matter what sure but ic you really knew how evil I was (masturbated to my mom's Victoria secret catalog) you wouldnt love that part of me" :( so sad for a child to feel so rejected of God.
I had a pair of Sister missionaries come to the door a while back, I stopped them in their spiel and told them that though I am still a member of the church, I don't go anymore, when asked why, I said frankly that I am gay. The Sister said but Heavenly Father loves all his children, to which I responded, but the Church does not. She had nothing to say to that...
I love your Buddha and plants! And good job for turning that article into an entertaining video. I don't think I'm saying that just because of my present altered state of consciousness. 😜🌿Anyway I'm excited for the book club!
I love my children who no longer come to church. I stay faithful and love them... My faith hasn't shrunk in any way. I also love to know that I'm no longer a 'Mormon' and I'm a Minister... let me explain... President Nelson told us all that we are Not Mormon's we are Members of the Church of Jesus Christ... And all of us... everyone of us... brothers and sisters are now Ministers and the greatest thing that we can do is to love :) so I'm a Non Mormon too and I'm a minister and I'm to love.
I think it's beautifully ironic how many LDS members like the Hunger Games when the Capitol is geographically located in Salt Lake City. There is no coincidence there.
Doubts may appear way before a person leaves the church....many people stay for social reasons, or simply not to complicate things...but till the church honestly address the issues and questions members have people will continue to loose faith in the leadership and organization ...
Ex-mormon here, and not trying to condone anything about the church or anything, but when I grew up I was told that if family "apostatized," I could still see them in the afterlife, but they just weren't allowed in the same degree of Heaven as me unless they accept the gospel. So I was kinda chill about letting people do whatever, since I could still see them after death. Is this not what other people were taught? Did people overtly teach you that you could NEVER see your family after death if they weren't all faithful members?
First of all, I'm in love with you two. Why don't you have more subscribers? Probably because RUclips would rather recommend right wing hate channels to me instead. Aaaanyway...Listening to this makes me so freaking sad because my mom suffered from severe depression and she also had many children that left the church. I always knew she didn't think she was good enough but I hate to think she was reading this and it was making her even sadder. I wish I could have broke her from this horrible cult before she died. I heard stories of my mom before she converted and she was a fun loving, smoking and drinking person who loved to paint and write poems. I only saw a shell of her once I was born, 1 of 6 and she didn't think she was worthy because she couldn't have more. She tried but had multiple miscarriages and so there are may years between us siblings. I'll never forget a Mother's day when the bishop asked women to stand up according to how many children they had and my mom seemed embarrassed to only have 6. Imagine that!!!!
Death is better than apostasy in the Mormon church. At least if you got hit by a bus, you'd be saved and happy and waiting for them in heaven. Leaving the church is destroying your chance at eternal life and their eternal family. Spiritual death is so much worse than physical death.
This is what kept me from leaving the church for so long. The idea that even though I'd be living a moral life but damned for eternity for not doing so outside of the church is daunting.
Another thing I don't believe they understand is that their children have minds and beliefs of their own especially when they get to a certain age. They feel that they want to go out and explore more what's out there in the world.
Hey, do one on LDS Living's redefinition of Satan's Plan, now Jesus' Plan, to force us to Not rebel against god (Leaders) even though JS clarified exactly what Satan's plan was: forcing salvation (no agency).
My dad always paid a little extra in tithing. The lord can't afford to withholding blessings. The blessings were debt and bankruptcy and divorce. Not too bad, I guess. The lord's ways are not our ways. 😉
Just found your channel and I really enjoy your vids. My Mum joined the church in the mid 70's. untill (sadly) her death in 2013. My elder Bro and Sis, my younger Bro and myself all baptized at 8 and have now all left, me being the first too at age 13. Right, totally off subject......But.......Have you heard of Mason Wells and..er...elder H. Oaks??? What do you think about him, either way! (context) just watched a vid about mormonism and freemasonry.
As someone that just had their spouse of 25 years transition a week ago --- the author can eff right off with this nonsense that death of a loved-one is equal in tragedy or pain to someone having a loved-one blow the cult. These religious fanatics are DELUSIONAL. My tbm parental unit has been extremely controlling, abusive and exploitative during this most difficult time in my life to the point i had to limit contact to preserve my sanity. This is my anecdotal experience of the rotten fruit of this tree.
Um, I beg to differ about the “kindness” of certain former church leaders. The whole creepy practice of cringey one-on-one confessions was instilled to humiliate people into repentance. Here’s a quote from 1974: “Many people cannot repent until they have suffered much. They cannot direct their thoughts into new clean channels. They cannot control their acts. They cannot plan their future properly until they have lost values that they did not seem to fully appreciate. Therefore, the Lord has prescribed excommunication, disfellowshipment, or probation, and this is in line with Alma’s statement that there could be no repentance without suffering, and many people cannot suffer, having not come to a realization of their sin and a consciousness of their guilt. One form of punishment is deprivation, and so if one is not permitted to partake of the sacrament or to use his priesthood or to go to the temple or to preach or pray in any of the meetings, it constitutes a degree of embarrassment and deprivation and punishment. In fact, the principal punishment that the Church can deal is deprivation from privileges. Certainly the transgressor must know that even a good hot bath, shampooing of the hair, and a laundry-cleaned suit do not cleanse from sin...”
Not going to name names or titles but I’ve had a relative state that they’d rather see their child return home in a pine box than leave the church. I also think that this is more of a baby boomer mentality (and mentality of older generations) although I don’t doubt there are newer generation Mormon parents who’d think in this manner.
A cliche in families in Mormonism is that one child in every family has a disability of some form at least where I’ve been and I have epilepsy so guess who got to be treated like I didn’t know anything? Ding ding ding me haha:p it makes me more stubborn and able to live not being so attached to my parents or cookie cutter like my siblings:) yeah I struggle but I don’t pretend to be perfect and have everything under control:p like screw that I’m me deal with it! :)
Hello I am a man that has been confronting Mormons for a very long time and I am curious. So what did you convert to once of of Mormonism? I do see a Buddha over the ladies right shoulder.
We are atheists who try to follow the principles of secular Buddhism. (I.E. Living in the present moment, forgiving everyone, recognizing that we're all just the products of our genetics/experiences/conditioning, not getting so attached to your thoughts and feelings that you falsely assume they must reflect reality etc.)
Even if I were raising my kids in the church I'd never adopt that kind of attitude "better that they die than reject the faith" - I would never let the church determine my relationship with my kids. If I had any.
7:50, You really haven't been exposed to this? Were you a convert? I've heard stuff like this all my life. Maybe it is a Utah thing. I was born and raised Mormon in Utah. I've got Mormon ancestors for 8 generations on both sides of my family. So maybe it's a difference between Utah Mormons vs "mission field" Mormons. But yeah, none of that was new to me. When I was TBM it seemed perfectly logical to me. I was drinking that Kool Aid.
You should design greetings cards for mormon parents - "Our sympathy on the immorality of you child".
That would be perfect!
Finding your channel has been one of the best things to happen to me. I'm 15 and just now realizing that i don't find this religion true. I couldn't figure out how to leave without it hurting my family but watching your channel has made me realize that it will be for the good of myself, and my family will accept me eventually and if they don't, their loss i guess. I will still be okay.
Even though you don't get much views or subscribers i hope you know you really are helping the ones who do watch you and you continue to make videos.
I know it's over a year later but I'm only finding this channel now and I'm binge watching but i just wanted to say that i hope you were successful on leaving the church without too much hassle from your family and friend and i hope you are in a good place now,best wishes.
Agreed to both comments! 😊
4 years on. Hope it went well for you mate.
It is absolutely appalling that they say a child leaving the church is worse than a child actually dying.Absolutely disgusting.
@@DarqueDesires Wow!!
tiger bush that is almost all religions, how many times have Islamic parents beaten or killed their own kids or the child not adhering to Islam, Christian families dis owning their kids because their gay. Religions in general create a us against them attitude.
Steve Smith
Christian families in their majority don’t disown kids when they leave the religion. OP never said they are gay.
Agreed. I was told by my parent that I straight up wasn’t going to heaven and I wouldn’t have God in my life anymore because I removed my name from the church records.
Personally, I have never died. But from being both in and out of the Church, out of the Church is way better!
About the whole "it would be better if my child died than if they fell away," That was actually how I was taught growing up Mormon in Texas, so I think its a fairly common teaching. The way it was worded to me was that "The only greater sin than murder is leaving the church after having been given the gift of the gospel." Which is mental.
Zach Limb I was taught the same :( it’s truly mental
key word sin first thats probably not a sin and second there idiots thinking sinsshould effect you if you out of that religeon
I've absolutely heard that stuff about death > leaving. After my brother attempted suicide, my father didn't want to pay for therapy because he genuinely believed that his son was better off killing himself than living on outside of the church.
And not even because he'd be happier, or free from mental illness, but because he wouldn't be capable of committing any further "sin". It's really sickening.
Oh god. :(
Jesus fucking wept...
I hope you and your brother are safe
I loved your cats' testimony. I'm sure it was genuine. Lolol. You guys are great!
It’s absolutely a better testimony than mine!
I love the intro, the little testimony thing that all the parents do with their kids. Gotta train em young
When people say, "I know you'll come back", they are _invalidating your sincerity_ in having been convinced that the church doesn't live up to its truth claims. They are essentially telling you what you do and/or don't believe.
But they have to think that in order to validate their own beliefs. It's either that or telling you that you've never really had a "spiritual experience." Which I would agree with _technically,_ but what is in question is what the ex-Mormon _believed_ the experience to be at the time they had it, and invalidating _that_ sincerity from the past.
Yes! I got that from the person who originally invited me to the Mormon church when I left, and she kept telling me, "Wander all you need to, because I know you'll be back. This is the true church, you know." It sucked because it felt like my experience with the church slowly breaking me was being dismissed and that I was "not ready" for the blessings (Got told that, too).
Yes. You _have_ to go back. In the mind of the indoctrinated, any sincere seeker of truth will ultimately be led into the church or _back_ into the church. They equate "truth" with "the Mormon gospel" which is a deceptive and presupposing association to begin with.
I've never had that happen since luckily my mother doesnt force me to go. And I think they would criticize me if I was forced to go and I voice it. I do think my grandparents and mother are disappointed but they do let me do what I want and will not try to change that. Also my mom says she thinks she might not believe in Mormonism but she believes in jesus and God. Because of the LGBT policy, since she has a gay brother and gender fluid sibling, so she supports them but her religion doesnt. So I think she is questioning Mormonism but not christianity
When I was still at home at struggling with the church I started to openly 'rebel' against the (Mormon) things my mum wanted me to do and she told me that I was going to hell in a handbasket and that she wasn't going to let me take my siblings down with me. Yeah, a great thing to tell a 16-year-old - my issues with the church ended up being one of the main reasons I wasn't welcome in her house anymore. Ah, Mormons are so understanding and compassionate...
I hear stuff like this, and I'm at least a little hopeful that the whole pearly gates thing is real. Just so st. Peter can laugh in their faces when they try to say they were christ-like 😆
Also I'm really sorry you went through such an awful experience.
My dad told me that he would rather see me DEAD AND BURIED, than not married in the temple. Hey, that's a good band name! Introducing the punk band... Dead and Buried!
I think he stole that phrase from an LDS apostle.
p.s. a boom mic or lavaliere might help with sound and reducing ambient noise so we can hear you better. Also, I'm married to an audio aficionado, you might have see his work 315 East Broadway (Boozetique) SLC he can set it up.
I always thought "Blood Atonement " would be a great metal band
So glad I don't live in Utah. The negative culture against people who leave the church is bad enough here. OH WELL. Good video btw.
I will never go back to Utah. Am currently being shunned by family like (how many?) other awakened exmormons. The leadership influencing them to do this is just one more glaring sign they are wrong wrong wrong!
Common Chris Utah is the worst State for this, ignoring this kind of behavior from Church members has been very easy for me and my husband however. Considering his entire family are TBM it can get interesting!!! BUT we love where we live and I will never let other’s bigotry keep me from my happiness.
would love to see a video that's just responses u got from mormons when you left the church
Glad to pull a Tanner
One of the difficult thoughts I had when I was thinking about growing outside the church was that I didn't know WHO I was outside of those boundaries. My husband had told me I'd still be the same person, I just would be doing certain things in a different way. Now that I've left the church, I can say that this is very true. I am still very sensitive, spiritual, (in other, more fulfilling ways) MORAL (what a surprise!) And still hold very strong to who I am as a person.
I would say what has changed about me has been nothing but positive things. I'm less judgemental, I'm less anxious, I trust in myself more, and it's overall very exciting to see things in such different perspectives, and see all the colors and beauty life has to offer us. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and videos with us. :)
“You wanna eat and drink with some sinners? Come hang out with us!” please?? That would be the best day of my life
most people are sinners so why not
Omg I just found out about y’all’s Chanel and I’m in love!!!!! I’m 15 and an agnostic and highkey wanna leave the church. Y’all seem so happy/have such nice vibes and I feel like that’s just so much better than a formalized religious life yknow. Y’all’s channel is so great🥺🥺✨
My sister and I have 4 other (live) siblings, but she and I walked away as full on adults. I was over 30 and she was close to forty. We're the only ones who escaped. I felt some guilt about putting my mom through that. But my older sister explained something important that may comfort you too. She says that by leaving, we've given our mother a gift. Now she can pray for us and be kind to us and have hope that we'll come back. She was definitely the original Martyr Mom. It fit right into her tool box. Thanks for sharing your stories. I feel the solidarity!
In the end of being apart of the church, the only thing I was upset about was how personally they were gonna take it. But once I realized that I had to stop living my life for them and be making decisions based on how they'd react, I stopped right then and there, because I knew I would never be happy as long as I wasnt making decisions based on what I felt I needed. I have never ever been happier now that I've left the church. These videos and the comments really help with letting me know I'm not alone. So thank you❤
Bethany Hanson that’s a healthy way to think
Wow. This reminds me a lot about telling my parents I was attracted to the same sex. Coming from a really religious family, they simply couldn't comprehend the possibility of me feeling romantic love for a man. All it could be was Satan attempting to draw me into a false joy before ultimately destroying me. They kept (and keep) coming up with new rationalizations: I was addicted to the sex (intercourse this time), I didn't want to do the work of building a relationship with a woman, Satan had perverted my perceptions of male friendships, etc. Even now, they make sure to tell me about gay men they know who've contracted STD's, gay men with depression, and predators exposed on Grindr, as though that's all that can come out of, as they say "that lifestyle".
It really hurts, because I told them while I was struggling with depression, so I can somewhat understand the association they've made. And I've never doubted that they loved me and wanted the best for me. But they've also made it clear that I couldn't live with them or interact with my siblings if I were to pursue a relationship with a man, so now I've essentially retreated back into the closet.
But let's focus on the positive. Thanks a lot for your videos, Zelph on the Shelf. I know this one wasn't LGBT-oriented, but hearing how those leaders tried to project their own reasons as to why people leave the church really resonated with me. It's always good to know I'm not alone in this struggle. Again, thanks for the video, can't wait to see more.
Too bad that more LDS won’t accept the fact that you are BORN homosexual, just like you’re born heterosexual. You can’t choose your eye color anymore than you can choose your sexuality. Focus on accepting yourself! Live your own truth! There’s a happy life waiting for you. It’s always scary to leave the Church but so worth it. You’re kept there through fear tactics. What are their fear tactics? You’re not going to have your family in the next life has to be their number 1! But think about that. Does that sound like a loving god who doesn’t make mistakes, who condemned you to life as “gay”? Use the mind you were born with and think about the arguments that are being poured on you. If you think it through, the arguments are founded in fear and prejudice. Choose to love and accept yourself. You deserve happiness! You’ll be surprised how many people there are who are willing to accept you just the way you are. Your future is bright and shining!
I know this a year after the fact, but this hurt me so much to read. :'(
Really hope your journey (and... theirs) has taken a better turn. Peace and joy, friend
I love all your videos. Born in and raised JW, everything you say strikes a deep note with me. Thanks for all your insightful and fun videos. Laughing is the best !
Mormons and JWs are basically cousins! We're glad you're here!
Wildcard Skates err.. no birthdays and blood transfusions. Not being allowed to be alone with a member of the opposite sex, no pledge of allegiance, no singing. I think JW’s are mulch stricter.
I left the church nearly ten years ago and my dad still reminds me how god promised him I would come back someday.
I look forward to all your videos. So glad you are making more. You help me to laugh about the incescent judgment and misunderstanding. Love! ❤️
I just want to add one more thing in a pseudo reply to the people who wrote this article that you reviewed... Bitch, you don't know my life! You don't have one clue about how I feel and why I left the church. I loath how they always assert that they know the hearts and minds of people who have left...in Jesus' name Amen (jokes) 😵
We are newly resigned, however 1 adult child is currently in the church and 1 other adult child a "jack Mormon". We pray EVERYDAY AND MANY TIMES A DAY!!!!!
When one of my cousins left the church with his wife and their kids, my aunt said that it was the worst day of her life, even worse than when she found out one of her other children had stage 4 lung cancer that was spreading into his spine and they didn't know if he would make it (luckily his treatment is working and he's on the path to recovery). I lost so much respect for her on that day.
It is important to point out to these people that what they are saying is evil, wicked and utterly immoral. They really need to hear themselves.
bro hope she be getting dat lung cancer
also its probably because they think dying isnt sad and is just oh go to the after life with your freinds
lmao it's so true that Mormons treat their children leaving like it was a matter of life or death.
My mother cried like I died when I got a navel piercing, man she must have thought so much worse when I left!
....no regrets
Ever Grim Lol I thought you were gonna say she cried when you left, but then you said it was just over the piercing. I can only imagine.
Ever Grim they do, it’s true
My mother literally said: " Does this mean you're going to have sex too?!!!" My reply: " No, but I am going to drink coffee!" She bawled.........
NO REGERTS !!1!
jesus thats why my parent never take me to church or arent hevily in any religeon
I love Weird Alma's song "You'll be Back". It definitely captures the attitude of some people after you leave.
I was born out of wedlock and I was treated like the physical embodiment of my mom’s sin
Abby Brickley awww I’m sorry. You’re a miracle and a blessing. Never forget that
You poor bastard
Same
I was born in and grew up in Ireland. I was bullied in primary school because my parents weren't together. And I know that it had to have come from their parents at home. What 7 year old knows the 'proper' meaning of the word "bastard", or says that another child's parent is going to hell to suffer for eternity for their sins, and other shit like that. Looking back as an adult, it is really disturbing.
You've said some really beautiful things here..brought good tears to my eyes. Love you :)
OK so excited for the next Mormonforcment!!!
Maggie Kerksiek We were just writing it today and were cracking up ;)
You guys are incredibly refreshing and you're doing a beautiful job!
I love your videos. I think a lot of people really need this sort of moral support as they come to terms with the wavering image of the "only true and living church" which is rapidly losing its religious monopoly.
I've watched quite a few of your videos. Thank you both for what you're doing, I know you're right. I left the church a long, long time ago, and have discovered that there's hatred and loathing for me, from every church member that hears it. Not good, but a real strength that you can share with people like me. Bless both your hearts, thank you.
I read something recently about grace..grace comes from the Greek charis meaning to have joy. Lovely thought that God loves us and gives us love and experiences great joy in doing so.
So, although I grew up surrounded by Mormons and come from a ‘perfect Mormon household’, I myself never showed much interest in the church, and slowly drifted away during my moody earlier teenage years. My best friend also grew up Mormon, but was very religious initially, and now is fairly actively anti-Mormon. She’s the one who actually showed me this channel. Although I wouldn’t consider myself all that ‘anti-Mormon’ because I lost all interest in the church-positive and negative interest-quite a while ago, I still really love your channel. I just finished my first year of college, which was also my first year to really take time and experience a life with less Mormon influences and start to discover what I want for myself. I really enjoy your videos and viewpoints, and it’s helping me to begin living healthier, in areas such as relationships and self love, etc. It’s especially useful as I attempt to distance myself from Mormon culture and all the ideologies I had piled into my head growing up.
Basically (tl;dr), love your content, even though I’m no hardcore anti-Mormon. Keep it up!
I loved the hunger games comparison. I wish people could understand these things.
I love the advice from LSD Living! Let's not judge others, so join me as I explain everything you're doing wrong!
Love all those breathing plants! I really enjoy you two. People get very weird about people leaving the church, especially children. Oh my...the influences of the world!!!
I come from a long line of Mormons. My ancestors came with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young to Utah. But a lot of my current family are mostly Jack Mormons. My sister has taken her daughter to church often before the the pandemic. My niece is just turned 8 and is going to be getting baptized in August. Because we are from Utah it is almost expected to be baptized into the religion. I just hope that at some point she will see the light and leave the cult one day. Fortunately for me, no one really cared that I left the church. I have even had my records removed. I was raised to be aloud to choose for myself what I wanted to believe and when I was 12 I chose to be baptized into the church and I went to church every week trying to get a testimony, but never truly got one. I also liked a lot about having one so I could do all the activities with all the other young women of the church. When I turned 18 I went to relief society once and was told that I need to go to the singles ward. I didn't want tot go to the singles ward. I just wanted to go where I was comfortable. I new that they were just trying to get me married off and I wasn't ready for that. I wanted to live life and have experiences. I never had a testimony anyway so I took a break from the church for a while and then left completely realizing that it just wasn't for me. I guess I am just one of the lucky ones that have a family that really didn't care what I wanted to do. I am happier without the church then I ever was when I was in it. I wish I could stop my sister from baptizing my niece, but ultimately my niece wants to be baptized and I can't do anything about it.
I love your videos! I have strugled with religion all my life. As someone who is transitioning from the church with a family that are all true believers, it is difficult. Thank you for your videos.
In regards to things mormon's say after you leave. Left the church a few years ago although a friend from out of state recently found out told me "it's okay that you have left but I feel so terribly sad for you" completely genuine in her approach. Obviously explained to her it's certainly not something to be sad about as we are not and reversed the scenario but I guess she needed to express her sadness of us turning to the darkness. I don't want to compare but looking at both of our families situations our family despite our unworthiness has progressed much more speedily but yet she has sadness for our situation and still needed to express how prayer and tithing are essential to mental health and growth...
Loved the tease for more "MormonForcement". Looking forward to it :)
Oh also I had the missionaries come by twice. And a family (my parents) friends from the Mormon church bring treats and told me they wanted to come visit and the wife wants me to call her I don’t want people to try to bring me back I’m happy and liberated out thanks!:)
The original ending of the mormon commercial that said: "family, isn't it about time..?" It was, "..isn't it about time, you disowned them?"
Oh, absolutely my mom 100% believes she's lost me and all her kids to ex-Mormonism. And it IS traumatizing, on both sides.
It’s sad the assumptions some Mormons have about people who have left the church. I grew up Mormon, I’m not anymore. One of my friends whom I caught up with recently found out I’m not Mormon anymore and he said wait are you into drugs or something? And I was like omg dude, I didn’t leave because I wanted to do drugs, I left because it’s what I wanted. Like, just because I’m not Mormon doesn’t mean I’m gonna go off and do other things...I’m still the same person I just don’t like Mormonism haha. Like wow dude
Drugs are better than Mormonism
My in-laws were more grieved, angry, and upset when my wife left the LDS than when a few years later when our 3month old daughter passed away in their friends care.
Holy shit...
Awww! What a good faithful kitty! ^w^
The only calling I've ever been extended where the person issuing the call told me I could potentially be excommunicated was as a clerk. He told me that errors with tithing could result in excommunication. Even when I was called to be counselor in the bishopric they didn't say anything about the seriousness of that calling, just told me I had to shave my beard.
“Im so sorry for your loss, you must be devastated…”
“…Kevin isn’t dead, he just asked why Joseph Smith had a 14 year old wife”
At the beginning of my journey to atheism, (well I think I'm a bit agnostic too) my mother would force me but after a few months, she realized it was making worse, with depression and anxiety. At that time I was already struggling with depression and anxiety so going to church put more burden on me. So she let me not to go and told me she was sorry to force me (this was maybe a year after her not forcing me) I havent dealt with alot of the influence of the church after that, which I'm really glad about. I've never heard of the LGBT policy they passed 4 years ago since I was just mostly not caring about the world in general but hearing it was a thing, it made me glad I left the church.
My mother is also questioning Mormonism, but she does believe in jesus and God, so she might go to an actual Christian church and leave Mormonism. Or she might just not go to any church and just keep following God's teaching in the bible to love everyone and not judge others. But I think that will happen years later.
Great job! It would be interesting if you did an episode on the book, "Visions of Glory"...If you haven't already. So many things wrong with it. That book set my entire family into an end of the world frenzy.
Samantha you are so right! Whenever I heard the phrase unconditional love as a child always in the back of my mind in thought, "you love me no matter what sure but ic you really knew how evil I was (masturbated to my mom's Victoria secret catalog) you wouldnt love that part of me" :( so sad for a child to feel so rejected of God.
Nearly woke up my neighbours when Tanner started talking in Banksy's ear with "his" testimony.
That moment when you get an ad for “Come unto Christ” from the LDS church before this 😋🥰🙏🧚♀️
Our biggest advertiser, I swear!
I had a pair of Sister missionaries come to the door a while back, I stopped them in their spiel and told them that though I am still a member of the church, I don't go anymore, when asked why, I said frankly that I am gay. The Sister said but Heavenly Father loves all his children, to which I responded, but the Church does not. She had nothing to say to that...
I love your Buddha and plants! And good job for turning that article into an entertaining video. I don't think I'm saying that just because of my present altered state of consciousness. 😜🌿Anyway I'm excited for the book club!
I love my children who no longer come to church. I stay faithful and love them... My faith hasn't shrunk in any way. I also love to know that I'm no longer a 'Mormon' and I'm a Minister... let me explain... President Nelson told us all that we are Not Mormon's we are Members of the Church of Jesus Christ... And all of us... everyone of us... brothers and sisters are now Ministers and the greatest thing that we can do is to love :) so I'm a Non Mormon too and I'm a minister and I'm to love.
Lydia Stevenson Ok poopsie. Aren’t you so clever in your magic panties.
I think it's beautifully ironic how many LDS members like the Hunger Games when the Capitol is geographically located in Salt Lake City. There is no coincidence there.
I left at 18 as soon as I moved out, never told them I didn't believe just waited till I could get out
I think children can realize something overnight, and that can change their behavior. Love the video ❤️, plus ur shirts are #LifeGoals.
"party like Jesus" is my new favorite saying
GOTTA BUY THAT BOOK PAYDAY!!!! Dead on!!!! Thanks from me again!!!!
Brilliant! Thanks Zelph? Zelphs? Zelphi? Yes I’m a Happy Valleyite and it’s just as implied in the article and emphasized by you twos.
Zelves?
Doubts may appear way before a person leaves the church....many people stay for social reasons, or simply not to complicate things...but till the church honestly address the issues and questions members have people will continue to loose faith in the leadership and organization ...
Wow that intro took me back to some core childhood memories! Oof
In Utah, if you want an empathetic friend get a cat. They're 'nine lives' theology isolates them from the Mormon community. Loneliness loves company.
I was lucky. I left the church with my parents.
Now, my grandparents, on the other hand...
“Sad privilege” is a hell of a phrase
Mormon love is the pinnacle of conditional love.
That irony when the add of this video is the Bible app... Just noticed
17:50 "...that's a sentence to unpack"
OH MY GOSH. I cannot stop laughing 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's 5 hours later. I'm literally still chuckling too myself (and binge watching your videos!)
Cheers you two :)
Ex-mormon here, and not trying to condone anything about the church or anything, but when I grew up I was told that if family "apostatized," I could still see them in the afterlife, but they just weren't allowed in the same degree of Heaven as me unless they accept the gospel. So I was kinda chill about letting people do whatever, since I could still see them after death. Is this not what other people were taught? Did people overtly teach you that you could NEVER see your family after death if they weren't all faithful members?
I want to eat and drink with sinners!
First of all, I'm in love with you two. Why don't you have more subscribers? Probably because RUclips would rather recommend right wing hate channels to me instead. Aaaanyway...Listening to this makes me so freaking sad because my mom suffered from severe depression and she also had many children that left the church. I always knew she didn't think she was good enough but I hate to think she was reading this and it was making her even sadder. I wish I could have broke her from this horrible cult before she died. I heard stories of my mom before she converted and she was a fun loving, smoking and drinking person who loved to paint and write poems. I only saw a shell of her once I was born, 1 of 6 and she didn't think she was worthy because she couldn't have more. She tried but had multiple miscarriages and so there are may years between us siblings. I'll never forget a Mother's day when the bishop asked women to stand up according to how many children they had and my mom seemed embarrassed to only have 6. Imagine that!!!!
7:59 Yes. That's exactly what it is, Tanner.
Death is better than apostasy in the Mormon church. At least if you got hit by a bus, you'd be saved and happy and waiting for them in heaven. Leaving the church is destroying your chance at eternal life and their eternal family. Spiritual death is so much worse than physical death.
This is what kept me from leaving the church for so long. The idea that even though I'd be living a moral life but damned for eternity for not doing so outside of the church is daunting.
Another thing I don't believe they understand is that their children have minds and beliefs of their own especially when they get to a certain age. They feel that they want to go out and explore more what's out there in the world.
What is it you were mentioning about Packer?
Hey, do one on LDS Living's redefinition of Satan's Plan, now Jesus' Plan, to force us to Not rebel against god (Leaders) even though JS clarified exactly what Satan's plan was: forcing salvation (no agency).
My dad always paid a little extra in tithing. The lord can't afford to withholding blessings. The blessings were debt and bankruptcy and divorce. Not too bad, I guess. The lord's ways are not our ways. 😉
What is the church's view towards kids that choose not to get baptized?
There aren't any. You truly get no choice. Turn 8 and it just happens. The coercion is unbelievable.
There are none whatsoever who choose not to.
Just found your channel and I really enjoy your vids. My Mum joined the church in the mid 70's. untill (sadly) her death in 2013. My elder Bro and Sis, my younger Bro and myself all baptized at 8 and have now all left, me being the first too at age 13. Right, totally off subject......But.......Have you heard of Mason Wells and..er...elder H. Oaks??? What do you think about him, either way! (context) just watched a vid about mormonism and freemasonry.
"Blowin duuudes" 😂😂😂
Very interesting, but hard to hear. A little too much echo. Any chance you guys can mic this cleaner?
Thanks for the podcast!!!
we’re happy to announce yhe mic situation has improved since this video
Waited till the end to see the cat footage and was so disappointed 😞 anyone know where it got posted ?
As someone that just had their spouse of 25 years transition a week ago --- the author can eff right off with this nonsense that death of a loved-one is equal in tragedy or pain to someone having a loved-one blow the cult. These religious fanatics are DELUSIONAL. My tbm parental unit has been extremely controlling, abusive and exploitative during this most difficult time in my life to the point i had to limit contact to preserve my sanity. This is my anecdotal experience of the rotten fruit of this tree.
Ah yeah, my man JP. Wouldn't have a broken shelf without him
Um, I beg to differ about the “kindness” of certain former church leaders. The whole creepy practice of cringey one-on-one confessions was instilled to humiliate people into repentance. Here’s a quote from 1974:
“Many people cannot repent until they have suffered much. They cannot direct their thoughts into new clean channels. They cannot control their acts. They cannot plan their future properly until they have lost values that they did not seem to fully appreciate. Therefore, the Lord has prescribed excommunication, disfellowshipment, or probation, and this is in line with Alma’s statement that there could be no repentance without suffering, and many people cannot suffer, having not come to a realization of their sin and a consciousness of their guilt.
One form of punishment is deprivation, and so if one is not permitted to partake of the sacrament or to use his priesthood or to go to the temple or to preach or pray in any of the meetings, it constitutes a degree of embarrassment and deprivation and punishment. In fact, the principal punishment that the Church can deal is deprivation from privileges.
Certainly the transgressor must know that even a good hot bath, shampooing of the hair, and a laundry-cleaned suit do not cleanse from sin...”
In the old days, it was incredibly creepy and intrusive.
Love the cat, he or she is very vocal .
Not going to name names or titles but I’ve had a relative state that they’d rather see their child return home in a pine box than leave the church. I also think that this is more of a baby boomer mentality (and mentality of older generations) although I don’t doubt there are newer generation Mormon parents who’d think in this manner.
Definitely a prevalent baby boomer mentality :/
What do you mean you can’t get the second anointing if your not rich enough
A lot of Jordan Peterson's worthwhile ideas are Carl Jung's who I would definitely recommend looking into.
We love Carl Yung!
I have never heard of Alma the Younger saying there is no God. Where is that?? Is that something they fixed from the 1830 edition?
A cliche in families in Mormonism is that one child in every family has a disability of some form at least where I’ve been and I have epilepsy so guess who got to be treated like I didn’t know anything? Ding ding ding me haha:p it makes me more stubborn and able to live not being so attached to my parents or cookie cutter like my siblings:) yeah I struggle but I don’t pretend to be perfect and have everything under control:p like screw that I’m me deal with it! :)
Hello
I am a man that has been confronting Mormons for a very long time and I am curious. So what did you convert to once of of Mormonism? I do see a Buddha over the ladies right shoulder.
We are atheists who try to follow the principles of secular Buddhism. (I.E. Living in the present moment, forgiving everyone, recognizing that we're all just the products of our genetics/experiences/conditioning, not getting so attached to your thoughts and feelings that you falsely assume they must reflect reality etc.)
We also think Jesus was an enlightened thinker who taught the same principles as the Buddha and other spiritual teachers throughout history.
That startup! 😻😹😹😹😹
I feel that what & why they are doing these posts are somewhat trying to keep supporting their doubts for what they’ve done , I may be wrong.
Even if I were raising my kids in the church I'd never adopt that kind of attitude "better that they die than reject the faith" - I would never let the church determine my relationship with my kids. If I had any.
7:50, You really haven't been exposed to this? Were you a convert? I've heard stuff like this all my life. Maybe it is a Utah thing. I was born and raised Mormon in Utah. I've got Mormon ancestors for 8 generations on both sides of my family. So maybe it's a difference between Utah Mormons vs "mission field" Mormons. But yeah, none of that was new to me. When I was TBM it seemed perfectly logical to me. I was drinking that Kool Aid.
I'm a convert (Sam) and Tanner was born in the church but grew up in Flagstaff, AZ!
Love the obvious distain on her face when people cry over things that are basic facts of existence/parenthood 😂 its so cathartic!