... or GREAT? What's Up PHO-701?
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- Опубликовано: 16 май 2024
- As far as phono stages go, how does the PHO-701 from Vincent Audio stack up against the competition?
PHO-701: amzn.to/3QHwfo0
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Still love the Pro-Ject DS3 B(alanced) XLR IN/OUT, eventually bettered by the DS3B Tube phono preamp
One thing I love about the DS3, Marc, is that it allows for switching in the front and not dip switches on the bottom.
The first preamp I owned many years ago was a PS Audio, and it had a seperate external power supply. The funny thing was it was the exact same size cube as the Carver power amp I also owned. They looked like twins, one black and one in silver. The little Carver Cube could put out 200 watts per channel and it had flashing L.E.D.'s in orange; just like the Vincent. Also ironically, I had orange carpeting (with dark brown furniture). The next time you are driving around, notice how many things are orange in color. It's mind boggling. The most influential audio guy of all time, the late editor of The Absolute Sound, Harry Pearson, said that tube preamps are clearer in the midrange than solid state preamps. With the kind of exotic equipment he used; I guess so. I am into the sound of mid 1950s NOS tubes..So lush with amazing depth! Tubes amps run on higher voltages, so it's hard for them to sound 100% as pure and clean as solid state, but the timbre is so beautiful & alluring anyhow. It's pretty predictable that tube amps will have the edge in spatiality versus solid state. But as you get way up in price, solid state can put on a pretty good show of expansiveness too.
My best preamp of all time had a glass circuit board. It was good at dissipating micro vibrations, which every part on the circuit board creates, and everything else on the circuit board is adversely affected by..Like harmful gossip chatter between resistors and transistors etc.; always going on. A phono preamp is amplifying a very low signal. It is surprising to me that a premium interconnect between preamp and power amp ( bigger signal), will make more improvement than using the same cable from the outputs of the turntable to.the preamp. Interesting that you compared digital to microwaving a steak. Great digital might be like Filet Mignon. Speaking of wives tales, I always heard that microwaving food decreased its nutritional value. Current research is rebuking a lot of that. Good!.. I hate to wait.
I've never heard of a glass circuit board. That's wild.
My father-in-law recently revealed he had a couple of crates of old tubes from the late 50s and 60s. I spent a few hours this week looking through them. Most were for old radio sets but I found a few 12AU7s, 12AX7s & AT7s. He also had a tube tester! You can imagine I had fun afternoon playing with all that.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords 'They' collect tube testers now and they bring $$$....it's a real thing! Maybe six guys left in NA who know how to calibrate one, but that's not the point....lol.
A glass circuit board must be rare then; I don't follow things too closely anymore. Glass is made of sand and sand is a wonderful material for controlling vibrations. I love my 1954 Sylvania 12AU7 tubes. More depth than same era Mullards which go for a lot of money. The Sylvanias are much cheaper; but ones that old are rare. They are the taller black plate tubes. It might be like the old saying"they don't make em like they use to anymore. There are certain things and processes that they could do in the workplace that are now considered hazardous, unsafe and illegal.
Thank you so much for this review. Been curious of Vincent products but there a barely any reviews out there. Was looking at this one in particular for an upgrade for my set up. Cheers!
You won’t be disappointed. It was always on my list when I was looking to upgrade. I was surprised to at the lack of reviews at the times.
Good video. I appreciate the explanation about integrated verses stand alone phono stages.
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Recently I've purchased the Pro Ject tube box S and I'm very happy with it. 👌
It’s a great little unit and I still use it in my review setup.
I'm insanely happy with the Waxwing phono stage. The sound quality is excellent & the amount of options is mind-blowing. Cost is very reasonable as well.
That's a very interesting product. It also has an iPhone app I believe
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords there is an app for both Android & iPhone. I use mine with an Apt Holman preamp with a rebuilt dynaco st-70.
Yes, I do like that feature of it having a USB port so you can convert your records to digital files but the reason is really only just for convenience. Like in the old days we recorded our records to cassette so we could listen to them in the car or on the go in a Walkman, etc. Same idea here, we can copy the files to a phone or USB stick and listen to them in the car or on the go.
Do they sound as good when converted to digital? No, of course not. The only reason for doing it, that I can think of, is just for the convenience. It’s a nice feature to have.
Another vote for USB. Looks like more folks appreciate it than I guessed. Thanks, Keith!
Thanks 🙏 again Rick for this great and interesting product presentation. As always. This time I would also like to thank the sponsor for this video. You can see ELAC loudspeakers in the product photos. That makes me very happy as a German. ELAC, a fine brand from the far north of Germany. Also your choice for the Vincent. The complete Vincent product development takes place at Sintron in Iffezheim, directly on the German-French border near the Black Forest in the south-west of Germany.
When I was spoilt for choice of phono preamplifier, the Vincent was in my top 5, at that time still the PHO-700, and of course the Pro-ject RS2 Phono Box from Austria. But also on the list was the Parasound JC3+, which was designed by John Curl, the creator of the legendary Vendetta Research phono preamp. Also high on my list was one from Audio Research. Some reference phono whose type name I can no longer remember.
The race made the Italian Ferrari, if I can make that comparison. The Goldnote PH-10. Why?
The days of dip switches should now be a thing of the past, please. Constantly the question: "What was which DipSwitch for what again?". When I wanted to change my cartridge, luckily not so often, but when, I have to rip my whole setup out of the nicely wired rack. Then, after to realise that it wasn't what my ears wanted to hear. That's not possible. So, unfortunately, the Vincent dropped out of this list.
Audio Research from the USA was too expensive for me here in Germany. The design doesn't quite match what I have in the rack either.
The Parasound, unfortunately I couldn't hear the device anywhere. What a pity.
Now, the Gold Note had won the race. The PH-10 had several advantages and a decisive function for me. Firstly, the very intuitive operation on the front. A beautiful, very functional, self-explanatory display. Yes, you can also switch it off. But the sound graphic is too beautiful on this one. A minimalist reduced housing. Two phono inputs. Two phono outputs, XLR and RCA. Balanced and unbalanced. A perfect sound, without that constantly sound-changing tube. An option for an external power supply, but this is not absolutely necessary. Not a necessity, but an option, you understand what I mean.
The most important thing about the sound. The PH-10 has "extended RIAA"! It doesn't cut off at 20kHz. Well, you can't hear that anyway. However, with "extended RIAA" nothing is cut off at 20 kHz. So if my stylus can go up to 42kHz, then the phono stage won't cut off. Regardless of whether I can hear it or not.
Before I forget to mention, it is handmade in Italy.
The best, all this complete in this price range. Any more questions?
May the best sound with the best music always be with you. Servus from the 🤍💙of Bavaria.
I have heard so many great things about the PH-10. Although minimalist in design, it's still aesthetically pleasing to look at.
Dip switches continue to be a frustration. As much as I love the Tavish Classic I use with my main setup, if I want to adjust them I literally have to take the casing apart to get to the dipswitches inside.
Cheers 🍺🍺🍺
My first external phono preamp was an NAD PP-1 bought in 80s. I finally upgraded to a Schiit Mani, then got a Lounge Audio LCR Silver mkIII. When I installed a Hana EL Moving Coil cartridge I bought a Parasound Zphono XRM. The Parasound has pot to set up the impedance load from 50 -1050 ohms. Most phono preamps I look at skipped the 400 - 600 ohm range, Hana recommends a >400 ohm load. Also it has Balanced outputs which I connected to my Schiit Freya+. Plus you can connect two different turntables one with MM and one with MC, selecting either via a switch on the front.
Parasound makes great products. I wasn’t aware of the ability to switch. Another plus.
Another fun video. Thx.
Cheers! 🍺🍺🍺
The first big upgrade I made to my system many years back was to up grade my source first off..there are different schools of thought on what should be upgraded first and all have their merit, but I'm a vinyl guy so I went with source. I didn't have a lot of $ left over after buying my Rega P8 and I still needed a phonostage. I landed on the PHO 701. To this day, the source upg4ade has made the biggest difference in my system's sound. More than amp, preamp, or speakers. Some time ago, I got a different Amp and the 701 was not compatible with it, but I believe it is a pretty cool little unit for not a lot of $.
The Rega is a stellar upgrade. I also agree that the source is the most important. Not that the others don’t play an immense role in the final sound but it begins with the source.
If you love tubes you need to check out the Hagerman Trumpet MC phono preamp!
That is a great looking tube stage, Chel!
Nice review, thanks! About the USB ADC capability - I listen to my music collection both digitally (in my car or as background music at home) or to my LP record collection for a more concentrated and full musical experience. Streaming is not my cup of tea, yet. I've noticed that several of my old records weren't available for streaming, or they may suddenly disappear from the streaming service. And also back in the days there weren't so many CD-versions available either. So I ripped LP-records using a phonostage with ADC output. I'm also ripping all my CD's and stored it on my local NAS DLNA server at home. I'm planning to pick up the vinyl ripping again - need to find a suitable sound ADC interface first for my needs. BTW: I'm using VinylStudio software.
Good to know and thanks for sharing that! I’m not aware of VinylStudio. Thanks for that as well 🍺
I'm currently doing a lot of listening via headphones using either a FatMan (hybrid tube) or a Woo (tube) headphone amp. I tend to listen to records in original form, but do dub some to digital for my radio show or for portable playlists using a Focusrite Scarlett mic mixer/ADC.
Hi Pat! What is the radio show?
Very cool Rick! Love the aesthetics which I feel adds to the experience. I have the Fluance you reviewed and I'd love to hear your take on a amp/pre-amp setup that allows you to connect wired headphones with a remote as there are times I want to crank it up, but also stay married. Unsure if this is science fiction or actually exists.
I'll check. I actually haven't used headphones for years (except when editing audio for podcasts). I bet I can find something that will work for you.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Appreciate it
As a 'convenience' (anything that boils cybot6's blood is a WIN), I record a record on a Tascam Professional CD unit. There are no doubt better bit-rate machines out there these days. But it goes by the old Redbook standard. For my ears, it gives me an exact copy of the record, warts and all. No generational loss/change that can happen with tape that I can hear. I can also tape at the same time, but these days I find it rare I'm running multiple decks at once. I'll just keep the album on CD-R or CD-RW and catalog it that way.....or I'll copy it later on RTR to use the sweetness of its preamps. Either way, it gives me 'choices'. I bought the Tascam originally to give recorded CDs to my sons from my old rock albums. Then mp3s took over and they didn't want the storage problem of CDs....they were done with them. So.....this seems like a good use for the digital/analog Tascam unit.
Evert time Tascam comes up I smile. I used to record music on their 4-Track back in the 90s (still have it). I even use a Tascam digital recorder when I record my podcast.
One thing I do is to burn my records to cd. It saves on my records and Cartwright, it’s fun to do and allows me to archive my records.
Thank you for the feedback, Michael!
I’ve been using the PHO-701 for a few years now. Mine did come with the JJM tube and it was good but I swapped it for a Genalex Gold Lion that I think sounded a little better with my 2M Bronze cartridge. I might try the JJM again though since 2 days ago I upgraded to a 2M Black. It sounds great with the Gold Lion but I’m curious and have the JJM just setting there.
What do you think of the Black? I’ve really been enjoying it.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecordsI am liking it. It’s a bit more detailed and the bass is more textured than the Bronze. I was a little worried when I put on the first record though. It was a little harsh on the top end but after listening to 3 albums it settled down. I had heard it needs to break and can confirm first hand it did.
I’ve had this phono amp for over a year and have run it with MM and MC carts like the Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 (Wow that’s a lot!) and the MC Cadenza Bronze. I found it to be a fantastic phono amp but requires you to dial in the sound some with the ability to adjust it with those switches. Once you get it though it performs great! I now run a phone preamp from Black Ice Audio but I’m not sure honestly which one is truly a better sounding option. Operation wise I do like the Black Ice amp better. BTW…. I swapped out the stock tube on the PHO with a Mullard and it was a great upgrade!
Love Mullards. My amp and Tavish are both filled with Mullards
Hello, I'm thinking of buying a phono preamp and I'm considering Vincent PHO-701 or Black ice audio. May I ask what model you own from them?
@@TheTeraqin78 I only have experience with the PHO-701 and enjoyed it. The Black Ice Fusion 9 MKIII is comparable as both are hybrid SS/Tube designs (although the Fusion 9 MKIII has 2 tubes in the output stage). Sorry - can't speak to its performance however.
Replace the tube that comes with the unit with a NOS RCA 12au7 black plate tube. It's a dramatic improvement in sound.
Doncha just love experimenting with different tubes?
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords Yes, I do it with my power amplifier.
What capacitance would be best to start with for a Rega Ania with boron cantilever and Fritz Gyger FG 2
I believe it is still the 1000pf for the Ania - even with the FG2.
9:42 the ADC has to be of sufficient quality ( 24/192 ) along with a quality DAC on playback…its a thing 🧐
You certainly know more about me when it comes to that!
I wont comment on the Pho since I have zero experience with it, but making digital copies of your vinyl collection? Like everything else, it depends on every aspect of the process, the quality of the source turntable, the phono preamp, the A to D processor, making sure you get maximum dynamics without overload, etc. I don't bother because my local specialist audio dealer are also recording engineers. I've had the opportunity to hear the live performance, and the recording of that performance, both 24bit/192 kHz and vinyl records pressed of the performance that gives me a phenomenal perspective of what's what. I give them an LP and they can make me a digital copy and put it on a jump drive. And their equipment? They're using a killer front end with a $100,000.00(not a typo) preamp going into State Of The Art Nagra recording equipment, the best cables, and yes I have heard differences in USB cables at their shop. I simply cannot do what they can do. And their REF playback system? The best setup I ever heard. Now I have made some WAV files of these hi-rez files and burned them to black CDR's which sound phenomenal, stuff you may like; Black Sabbath's first LP from a British original Parlophone and others I can't think of now.
I love the look of the Vincent stuff, I'd love to hear their integrateds.
It would be cool if you could compare the cheap Fosi x2 with the Vincent and your other tube phono pre, the x2 gets some nice reviews.
I've never used a usb anything for any music listening, I want computers as far away from my system as possible, I don't stream, I don't use WiFi, I don't want to "upgrade firmware" to listen to my music I don't want to download anything!!
I use the K.I.S.S method.
People say they transfer their special vinly album to digital so they can listen in the car etc, but the very small amount of albums that aren't available digitally and the amount of other music available illiminates the need for me to bother.
Do you really need to hear that specific rare album that's not available digitally to justify the purchase of a usb out? Cmon, there are millions of other albums to choose.
I do have Fosi on my list to contact. I also have some others on the horizon to test. Should be fun!
So, what was your experience? Did I miss something? How did it compare to the Tavish, sound stage, synergy, lalala…
It’s there. Maybe about 3/4 of the way through 🍺
I'm using the Fluance PA10 phono stage with my Fluance RT85 turntable. So I haven't really put a lot into my phono stage at this point. Everything sounds good to me, but I'm sure it could be a bit better. My dilemma is whether a better cartridge would be more prudent as an upgrade than a phono stage? I probably can't do both at the same time. So which comes first, the chicken or the egg?
That's a tough one. Do you still have the Ortofon Blue on the Fluance? Maybe the phono stage would be a more noticeable upgrade?
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords
Yeah, I still have the Blue, and we've talked about upgrading to the Bronze cart. I guess I've always placed less emphasis on the preamp. Like all other components, I'm sure it is just as important. But I was thinking the cart would make more of a sonic difference.
Digitizing vinyl makes sense if you want music on the go and can't find it in digital format, just like we used to copy our records onto cassettes. The whole thing with a tube phono pre-amp makes no sense to me if you are putting it into a tube integrated amp, which will give all the tubiness needed. Just this week I got a Willsenton R8 and I was running the pre-out from my Yamaha A-S3200 to utilize its very nice phono stage, the same as I was with my Cayin tube amp. But I decided to get a stand alone unit and have an iFi ZEN Phono 3 coming tomorrow. I'm sure that solid state unit will do just fine for my needs. But it's your ears that matter.
I actually don’t have anything against solid state and I have zero doubt if someone were to hand me a solid state phone stage of quality that feeds my tube amp I wouldn’t know the difference. It’s really the tube head in me. Just something I can’t truly explain.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords
I agree. I never thought I would go for that archaic technology but now I'm hooked. The sound difference is real, but I just wonder how much those glowing tubes influence my brain. I was considering the Galion but decided to try the R8 revised version and so far I am not disappointed. I might try a quad of the EL34 tubes in place of the KT88 just to see if I can tell a difference.
@@chrislj2890 There's been some really good buzz about the new R8. Glad to hear you're experiencing the same thing others are!
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords
When I first turned it on I was a bit bummed because it sounded very flat, but after a couple of hours that three dimensional tube sound really started to bloom. This whole tube phenomenon kinda confuses me.
@@chrislj2890 They are almost magic to me
@9:28 -- The USB port:
My phono amp does not have one. But I wish that it did.
I have a few records that I cannot find for purchasing in a digital format.
I also have a few records that sound much better than any digital version that I could find.
So it would be nice to be able to make digital versions of the above pressings.
Also, for playing music in my car, I use a flash drive. It would be great if I could put the above described albums on my flash drive, for listening in my car.
Of course, this is assuming that the PHO-701's analog-to-digital conversion section does an outstanding job.
And depending on the DAC and transport you have, it can be somewhat difficult to know how each component is contributing to the end result.
Of course, if your digital creation ends up sounding amazing, then your entire set-up is good-to-go.
Michael Fremer has an old video where he shows his man-cave. In that video, he shows a Lynx HiLo unit that he uses to convert analog to digital. I believe that, back then, the HiLo box cost $2,500. And I have no idea if he still uses it or something else. And I have no idea how it would compare to the PHO-701, with regards to analog-to-digital conversion results.
I have no idea either. I considered trying it out but my opinion would mean very little on an analog to digital conversion. It’s one of those things I will probably never try (although I should just for the experience). So little time and so much to play with 😂😂😂
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords "...but my opinion would mean very little on an analog to digital conversion."
Have you seen some of the opinions out there in the wild?
For all things audio, there are a handful of hosts whose opinions I trust. You are one of them.
For people I know personally, there are 4 or 5 people whose opinion I trust (for audio).
Please do not sell yourself short. Your opinion is very much respected.
I used to have a PHO701, with upgraded NOS Brimar tube. It certainly is an upgrade from built-in or entry level PS. I did not like the dip switches on the bottom of the chassis, as it discourages experimenting with the settings, and those make HUGE differences. I much prefer PS with front accessible resistance (for MC) adjustments. Eventually, I upgraded to the EAT eglow petite (tube/SS hybrid), definitely a step up in clarity and soundstage at twice the price. It may depend on the rest of the set-up whether it sounds different/better or not. Still wondering whether I can get more refined sound with a better PS ...
Re digitizing records, I do that for taking music on the road, and when I teach yoga classes. Most new releases are available as digital downloads (some even digital only), so it does not come up too much. I use a Focusrite Scarlet and VinylStudio. Very time consuming, so it needs to be worth it. But for good listening, I will always put on the record.
Hi Daniel! Th EAT is a great phono-stage and beats out some stages at an even higher price.
Are the yoga classes in person or online?
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords All are in-person, some are also streamed. Music is no longer streamed as there are some music licensing/rights issues. I think there are a bunch of archived classes as well. I teach a monthly arm balances and inversions class (not streamed), and then sub occasionally. This Tuesday night a flow 2.
Good evening ☕️
Have you watched some of the videos from HiFi Munich…head amps 💸💸💸
I’ve seen some videos and still need to catch up on them. I had a couple friends go. Maybe one of these days I’ll make it to one!
Kat (cat), not "Kate" Edmonson. A charming singer somewhat influenced by Blossom Dearie. She's excellent in live performance. Good on you for bringing her much deserved attention.
As soon as I said it I knew I had it wrong! Ugh!
Understandable minor error. It's preferable to keep a naturally flowing video rather than heavily edited perfection.@TheJoyofVinylRecords
Would this do better than rega fono mc?
Yes. I don't think it will be a "night and day" improvement. Although the PHO-701 isn't a true "all tube" phono stage it does provide that "tube warmth" sound.
how much gain for MC?
Hi Michael. It's 40dB for MM and 60 dB for MC
7:29 Kate with Lyle Lovett 🥹
Wow.
@TheJoyofVinylRecords I sent you a message about cartridges, not sure if that box is attended
Hi! I do check it at least once a day. Usually in the morning. Will definitely see yours tomorrow and respond.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords oh, well... maybe it was a stupid question...
@@rofgabor Hi Gabor! I responded on Saturday. Did it not go through? maybe it's in your junk mail?
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords so sorry. I did go through and searched by your name and nothing came up. I see it now. My bad. Thank you! I am responding now.
I can think of several reasons for using the USB hook up. Hope this doesn't send you and Alice down the rabbit hole.
There may be treasured records you want to listen to while in the car or or working out.
Records are somewhat fragile things and are brand new only once and still can be flawed. For everyone who has accidentally scratched a priceless record, maybe we would have in retrospect, archived that music digitally with the best equipment available. I don't do this personally, because I think it would be too time consuming, but I do rip all my CDs and essentially archive them. In the olden days I would transfer music to cassettes to listen in the car. I'm sure todays technology is far better, but time consuming.
I want you to think of me the next time you accidentally slip or scratch a record and then use your favorite expletive and then think to yourself, darn, I could have archived that perfectly!
😂😂😂 oh man. Now I bet that happens this week!
Nope! I tried years ago using a USB input to digitize my collection. Then I went back to the old way and learned new tricks using s USB interface instead of a PC sound card. Maybe the 701 does it better than the USB way I did years ago, but I'll stick with the way I'm doing it now.
Which USB interface are you using? Someone else here mentioned the Focusrite.
@@TheJoyofVinylRecords I have two different USB interfaces. First one I bought is the Novation Audiohub 2X4. At the time is was rated really good for being quite, but it doesn't have an adjustable gain other than HIGH or LOW. My phono preamp at the time had one so it worked good until I got the Schiit SYS. The Audiohub developed a ground noise issue so I sent it in for repairs and bought the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 2nd Gen. I currently use both of them with each one by using its own T11 tube phono preamps since I now have two of them. Each video I do I swap between USB interfaces and each preamp uses different tubes.
Right I’ll jump straight into that murky USB pool. Firstly it has absolutely no place in a sensitive phono stage. Secondly I’m not going to waste time explaining why. Thirdly that word ‘convenience’ really gets my blood simmering. At the end of the day if convenience is all that rocks your boat then the music itself has already struck the iceberg. You see, to me, music is sacrosanct and should only be appreciated in the right environment simply as a thank you to the artists and producers who made it in the first place. For me having music on tap nullifies everything that music is about. Familiarity breeds boredom. Look at it this way: if you treat music with the respect it deserves it will pay you back a thousand fold. I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with other ways of listening to music just my personal take on my own life long experience of saturating myself with music on any medium I could use at the time. Heaven is being the Listener in your own sanctum sanctorum where not only is the sound of music good but the music of sound is even better.
"Music on tap" - that's a great way to explain the state of streaming music in my mind, Dermot 🍺
@@TheJoyofVinylRecordsDecent of you to reply. No idea where I got term from but I meant it. Keep up the good work Rick.
Convenience? Microwave? :) Stay calm and bey happy...
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I dont use a usb to archive, my phono stage is the schiit mani 2, into my sl1200MK2, powered by a yahama as701, into my wharfedale diamond 12.2 paired with an svs 1000 pro sub. Oh, i run either a ortofon 2m blue or at vm95ml cartridge
Great setup!