Did this exact project (consulting with Andy) for a Beneteau 361. Just as he said, sand, primer and paint all the smooth areas (non-nonskid) first. Then I taped off the smooth areas and hit the non-skid with 60 grit to take off the peaks. The 60 grit was aggressive but it went much quicker. I wasn't looking to get the surface completely smooth. Then I used flexible 2 part epoxy and squeegeed it over the sanded areas, filling in the remaining valleys. Next was the Alexseal primer. Note that you have to pull the tape after each layer, otherwise you're going to spend a lot of time removing tape with a razor. The rubber granule non-skid was poured over wet Alexseal top coat paint. Used a very clean vacuum to suck up the excess after allowing to dry. Then 2-3 coats of topcoat paint to seal. Some of the slip holders in my marina routinely do the Newport-Bermuda race. They all planned on doing the same process, given the soft surface with superior grip. Not going to lie, it was a week of very long days and frustrations. But, the end result was truly stunning.
I think the "sprinkle on soft sand" (or rolling) and "Kiwi Grip" looks amatureish! Nothing looks as good as the molded in non-skid. Before filling with fairing compound and sanding smooth, (starting over with a flat surface) I'd test a small section of non skid and apply primer and paint. If it looks even marginally good, it will still look better that soft sand or Kiwi grip. Just my opinion :) Love your videos!
I’ve had success with top coating diamond pattern non skid as well as smooth gel coat by power washing several times, first with a degrease/wax, then with an aggregate (soda), then a couple times with fresh water. Be sure to do a final wipe . I roll and tipped with a 2 part epifane’s with 10% thinner….. 2 coats, no primmer, 6 years out, still looks fresh. Non skid still has grip…..
Watching this channel has been some good content to help with esk8 building. Especially for battery enclosures, and moulds. I don't think I've seen any vacuum pressing videos for composites though, something I plan to build towards the end of the year.
My father instilled (indelibly) the following, which to this day is absolute mantra and corner of my work ethic. "Don't just do the job to get it done. Do the job to get it done right." So, with that stated, do the job right not just right for now.
Before you go for shoulder surgeries, please please try Perfotek Hydrolyzed Collagen Peptides. One scoop every day. My guess is you might feel a whole lot better in 2 to 3 weeks. If you keep it up, the study showed cartilage growth of up to 1/8 inch in 66% of the study patients. It has helped me and so many of my friends. There are scan photos in the study showing bone on bone going to new cartilage in the joints. I am 81 and have not been to a quack in over 20 years. Dad was all but crippled and had 3 hip replacements which only helped a little. I started taking Arthro 7 when my hips started to hurt when I was in my early 50s. That helped for a long time. In my early 70s my knees really started to complain. I found the study on collagen, started taking it and it worked wonders. Even a fall that really injured my shoulder, is now fine after three years. I just will not listen to anyone who profits if I am sick. I do my own research.
Well presented. Filling in the non skid pattern with paint is always an issue. Personally I don't like the idea of going over the non skid with a wire brush. There is no way you will be able to avoid leaving scratches in the gel coat. If you opted to go that way I think an aggressive scotchbrite type pad would be a better choice, but I still think it is a lousy idea.
Others have already suggested sandblasting. You could remove the paint with a stripper, especially if it's a one-part paint. Aluminum oxide and carbide abrasive powders are readily available, 80 grit and coarser, and could be applied with a hand wire brush to provide plenty of tooth. Pumice is friable and fine and is used for rubbing out finishes. Comet? Spray or a good brush could apply an even coat even on the peaks and valleys if a roller failed. I wouldn't want to build up a smooth surface with fairing compound on top of a deteriorated paint layer with just the peaks sanded down to gelcoat. That could fail dramatically.
I saw someone on another form say to use a bristle disc (3M, Scotchbrite) with a gritty cleaner like comet. What do you think? I have a 42' Technomarine C42 Tiger from 1984 that needs the whole superstructure painted and I'm really trying to figure out what to do with the molded diamond nonskid over the massive deck...
I work at a boat yard, and like Andy said, there's no way to guarantee that the diamond pattern non skid will ever be clean enough, especially with old, chalky gel coat. Yes, you could try to clean as best possible, but on my boats, I sand the diamond pattern flat and start with a nice flat, fresh surface and use sand.
I liked this video. I used the bio blue before on a new bottom paint. It worked pretty good but I wouldn’t say it saved much time. Maybe using a scotch bright with the bio blue would work on a nonskid surface?
Sandblasting or pressure washing paint remover was not an option because the boat is in the water and I don’t want to make a mess. In addition, the weathered gel coat is softer than the paint. A Bosch 6” RO sander with a Dust Deputy and a shop vac does fine. Stripping the smooth areas are far more tedious.
Just curious about using a small sand blaster to clean and sand the area? The results with the paint filling and diminishing the nonskid would still be the same however
Thanks!!! Has anyone field tested refresh / etch solutions on Cape dory’s original molded rubber/ non skid ~ that were deemed successful ? Seemingly futile … The aftermarket products seems a downgrade of paint and sand/ glandular materials not the cushioning assigned to the original non-skid not to mention the mayhem / removal efforts of the original Aftermarket paints include glandular materials but not the “ rubber “ which I deem superior
I have Gibco Flex Mold and it's starting to crack under the sun like crazy. Not certain how to approach this repair. Anyone else experience this problem?
Just as an alternative, if the surface softens/ bubbles, would it be just as effective to soak the surface with the reducer and then pressure wash the surface? For the bite into the surface, would you consider soda blasting the surface, which also ensures all of the paint is removed. Additionally, is a chemical etch possible with the paints you discussed? Back in the day, we would use Skipsand to ensure the bonding of bottom paint.
Skipsand was brushed on like a primer, leaving a translucent tint. It was wretched smelling, even outdoors. It probably shortened the lives of everyone who used it. LOL
There's always sand blasting to remove surface contamination. It's really messy and hard to do correctly, but nothing can beat it for providing a clean surface ready for painting.
Fiberglass should never be sand blasted. I know people do it, but it's really not acceptable. Walnut shell media is barely acceptable. Peeling with specialized planer is the recommended method.
Your title said “Can you paint over molded gel coat”? You talked about painting over one and two part paints but what about over gelcoat? Did I miss something?
Tape-Washi ultra-premium painter’s tape-lasts in the sun for a long time, holds up to rinsing off, (but not direct high pressure)even sticks to a wet surface. Costs about $8. So much better than the blue tape and as good as the $100 silver tape that’s no longer available.
Dear Andy, thank you. May I ask please, if the non skid is the original gelcoat can you clean and then apply a new thin coat of gelcoat over the top. My deck non skid will not come clean - its either that or sea deck.
I think you've hit on something with the viewer project model. Really enjoyed this one!
Thank you :-)!
Did this exact project (consulting with Andy) for a Beneteau 361. Just as he said, sand, primer and paint all the smooth areas (non-nonskid) first. Then I taped off the smooth areas and hit the non-skid with 60 grit to take off the peaks. The 60 grit was aggressive but it went much quicker. I wasn't looking to get the surface completely smooth. Then I used flexible 2 part epoxy and squeegeed it over the sanded areas, filling in the remaining valleys. Next was the Alexseal primer. Note that you have to pull the tape after each layer, otherwise you're going to spend a lot of time removing tape with a razor.
The rubber granule non-skid was poured over wet Alexseal top coat paint. Used a very clean vacuum to suck up the excess after allowing to dry. Then 2-3 coats of topcoat paint to seal.
Some of the slip holders in my marina routinely do the Newport-Bermuda race. They all planned on doing the same process, given the soft surface with superior grip.
Not going to lie, it was a week of very long days and frustrations. But, the end result was truly stunning.
Hi Andy, you might not be able to demonstrate things right now, but you sure can educate us right now. You have the knowledge, let it out!
I think the "sprinkle on soft sand" (or rolling) and "Kiwi Grip" looks amatureish! Nothing looks as good as the molded in non-skid. Before filling with fairing compound and sanding smooth, (starting over with a flat surface) I'd test a small section of non skid and apply primer and paint. If it looks even marginally good, it will still look better that soft sand or Kiwi grip. Just my opinion :) Love your videos!
I’ve had success with top coating diamond pattern non skid as well as smooth gel coat by power washing several times, first with a degrease/wax, then with an aggregate (soda), then a couple times with fresh water. Be sure to do a final wipe . I roll and tipped with a 2 part epifane’s with 10% thinner….. 2 coats, no primmer, 6 years out, still looks fresh. Non skid still has grip…..
Hi, my suggestion for a very secure solution would be ( if possible ) to sandblast the surface. This is very fast ,safe and cheaper at the end..
Watching this channel has been some good content to help with esk8 building. Especially for battery enclosures, and moulds. I don't think I've seen any vacuum pressing videos for composites though, something I plan to build towards the end of the year.
My father instilled (indelibly) the following, which to this day is absolute mantra and corner of my work ethic. "Don't just do the job to get it done. Do the job to get it done right."
So, with that stated, do the job right not just right for now.
Good advise.
Hi You are back. Missed you. Spring is coming
Wow right in time! I’m doing this this weekend.
Before you go for shoulder surgeries, please please try Perfotek Hydrolyzed Collagen Peptides. One scoop every day. My guess is you might feel a whole lot better in 2 to 3 weeks. If you keep it up, the study showed cartilage growth of up to 1/8 inch in 66% of the study patients. It has helped me and so many of my friends. There are scan photos in the study showing bone on bone going to new cartilage in the joints. I am 81 and have not been to a quack in over 20 years. Dad was all but crippled and had 3 hip replacements which only helped a little. I started taking Arthro 7 when my hips started to hurt when I was in my early 50s. That helped for a long time. In my early 70s my knees really started to complain. I found the study on collagen, started taking it and it worked wonders. Even a fall that really injured my shoulder, is now fine after three years. I just will not listen to anyone who profits if I am sick. I do my own research.
The saying I have heard is: "Find the time to do it right so you don't have to find the time to do it twice."
Good info in this video... well done.
Could you sand blast the Surface????
Well presented. Filling in the non skid pattern with paint is always an issue. Personally I don't like the idea of going over the non skid with a wire brush. There is no way you will be able to avoid leaving scratches in the gel coat. If you opted to go that way I think an aggressive scotchbrite type pad would be a better choice, but I still think it is a lousy idea.
Others have already suggested sandblasting. You could remove the paint with a stripper, especially if it's a one-part paint. Aluminum oxide and carbide abrasive powders are readily available, 80 grit and coarser, and could be applied with a hand wire brush to provide plenty of tooth. Pumice is friable and fine and is used for rubbing out finishes. Comet?
Spray or a good brush could apply an even coat even on the peaks and valleys if a roller failed.
I wouldn't want to build up a smooth surface with fairing compound on top of a deteriorated paint layer with just the peaks sanded down to gelcoat. That could fail dramatically.
I saw someone on another form say to use a bristle disc (3M, Scotchbrite) with a gritty cleaner like comet. What do you think? I have a 42' Technomarine C42 Tiger from 1984 that needs the whole superstructure painted and I'm really trying to figure out what to do with the molded diamond nonskid over the massive deck...
I work at a boat yard, and like Andy said, there's no way to guarantee that the diamond pattern non skid will ever be clean enough, especially with old, chalky gel coat. Yes, you could try to clean as best possible, but on my boats, I sand the diamond pattern flat and start with a nice flat, fresh surface and use sand.
I liked this video. I used the bio blue before on a new bottom paint. It worked pretty good but I wouldn’t say it saved much time. Maybe using a scotch bright with the bio blue would work on a nonskid surface?
I always sand off non skid and remold with gelcoat thickened with cabosil.... Bio blue works decent for wax removal on gelcoat for pre painting.
I used a grout saw and drug out everyline on my non skid
Yes, "non-skiddy" is now officially a marine industry term. 👍👍👍👍👍
Sandblasting or pressure washing paint remover was not an option because the boat is in the water and I don’t want to make a mess. In addition, the weathered gel coat is softer than the paint. A Bosch 6” RO sander with a Dust Deputy and a shop vac does fine. Stripping the smooth areas are far more tedious.
Just curious about using a small sand blaster to clean and sand the area? The results with the paint filling and diminishing the nonskid would still be the same however
What is your opinion on kiwi grip?
Thanks!!!
Has anyone field tested refresh / etch solutions on Cape dory’s original molded rubber/ non skid ~ that were deemed successful ?
Seemingly futile …
The aftermarket products seems a downgrade of paint and sand/ glandular materials not the cushioning assigned to the original non-skid not to mention the mayhem / removal efforts of the original
Aftermarket paints include glandular materials but not the “ rubber “ which I deem superior
I have Gibco Flex Mold and it's starting to crack under the sun like crazy. Not certain how to approach this repair. Anyone else experience this problem?
I don't recall any of the videos with pictures that really show his non-skid method. Anyone have a link to some pics or really close up video?
Links to all the mentioned video's are in the drop down cards while watching the video :-)
To be fair I'm poor as shit so I'm just using old gel coat and sugar for this.
Soooo, six to twelve months of rehab until you pick up a tool. See you then, maybe.
Do what ya have to do...
Just as an alternative, if the surface softens/ bubbles, would it be just as effective to soak the surface with the reducer and then pressure wash the surface? For the bite into the surface, would you consider soda blasting the surface, which also ensures all of the paint is removed. Additionally, is a chemical etch possible with the paints you discussed? Back in the day, we would use Skipsand to ensure the bonding of bottom paint.
Was skipsand a chemical? Or a process?
Skipsand was brushed on like a primer, leaving a translucent tint. It was wretched smelling, even outdoors. It probably shortened the lives of everyone who used it. LOL
What is your opinion on kiwi grip?
There's always sand blasting to remove surface contamination. It's really messy and hard to do correctly, but nothing can beat it for providing a clean surface ready for painting.
Fiberglass should never be sand blasted. I know people do it, but it's really not acceptable. Walnut shell media is barely acceptable. Peeling with specialized planer is the recommended method.
Your title said “Can you paint over molded gel coat”? You talked about painting over one and two part paints but what about over gelcoat? Did I miss something?
Perhaps media blasting of some sort?
Tape-Washi ultra-premium painter’s tape-lasts in the sun for a long time, holds up to rinsing off, (but not direct high pressure)even sticks to a wet surface. Costs about $8. So much better than the blue tape and as good as the $100 silver tape that’s no longer available.
Can you show us how to roll out gelcoat with a roller and make it stand up for a nice gelcoat nonskid? Sand works, but it’s totally cheesy.
Have you gone under the knife yet? All the best to your recovery pal from a fellow cuff recovery guy and subscriber. Best regards! mjm
April 11 but on restrictions until then :-/
Dear Andy, thank you. May I ask please, if the non skid is the original gelcoat can you clean and then apply a new thin coat of gelcoat over the top. My deck non skid will not come clean - its either that or sea deck.
you'll run into the same issues as mentioned in the video coating with paint. Loss of texture and bonding would be an issue :-/
Great video. I re-watched your earlier video and was wondering if you can use soft sand with gelcoat. Thanks 👍
Again , some of the best advice from a Pro....well worth taking heed
sandblast/dustless blast should clean and prep surface to get good paint adhesion
Hey Andy, what happens to paint (and other products) when their marked shelf life has expired?
It typically will not cure :-/