If you guys liked this video and want to see more like it, let me know what topics you'd be interested in. What I'd like to cover are KH topics that not many people bring up or topics that usually aren't expanded upon or talked about in detail. It doesn't have to necessarily be gameplay related, either.
I've yet to see many, if any, people ask this question, and it's one I'm supremely curious about. Could Master Ava be sleeping inside Kairi's heart? I'm hoping KHMoM has an answer for this, but it'd be the easiest way to explain Naminé looking different from Kairi (ex Roxas and Ven in Sora's heart) and could explain some cryptic stuff from secret reports across the games.
I didn't watch the whole thing yet, so forgive me if you touched on this later in the video. I never saw a lot of people complain about the lack of uniqueness among transformations, I more saw people complain about the lack of resource management, in KH2 drive forms were something you felt like you needed to hold onto till the right moment, FM kinda took that away with how abundant drive recoveries were once you could start doing M13 challenges. Still, you felt the need to save it for when your health was low, or needed your MP restored, or wanted an extra boost of strength for a fight you were having trouble with(looking at you first dancer encounter), in KH3, transformations are just thrown at you for free, along with very powerful magic, and ethers are abundant as hell, every single one of those commands is a "why not" rather than an actual decision.
I mean KH2 is the only game i constantly go back to because of how good it is. You don't need to make it exactly the same but you know , don't fix what's not broken ? It's not surprise KH3 became much better to play after some simple abilities were added that made Sora actually fast and satisfying to use. So you don't need to make a 100% copy of KH 2 but i think everyone can like certain mechanics that made such game so good in the first place
It's not even just that there making it different from KH2, there either removing mechanics entirely, not replacing them with anything or with something significantly worse and undercooked
I definitely agree with what you're saying. Honestly there was some stuff in 2fm that I didn't like, like how base Sora's magic felt really slow and and laggy when I'm in a fast paced boss fight that requires good reactions and using magic at the right moment. I really like how KH3 gave Base Sora the abilities to float a little above the ground when casting spells because the magic felt way more mobile and there wasn't so much risk with whipping out a spell or two.
While I do agree that KH2FM's combat is far Superior, I disagree with "if it's not broke don't fix it" because it completely disregards the fact that you can improve something. Oh the first car was made? Well don't improve it. I mean it runs fine right? Improvements are also the reason why things don't get stale. Constantly getting the same thing would get pretty boring. If only we had an improvement of KH2FM. I feel like we don't need an exact replica but just something that feels better. Definitely less floaty imo
One of the reasons why I really like reactions commands is because it gives the player a relationship with the enemy in a sense. Being able to dynamically use the enemy’s attacks against itself was really cool. Each enemy had their own animation and way Sora interacted with them.
Can't say I agree, personally. Then again, I don't like contextual attacks in any action game. The reason why I don't like them is that they're options you can only use on certain enemies, and when the enemies feel like letting you use them. This means that there's a lot of tools with their own unique utility that you're artificially limited on accessing based on the context of the specific enemies being fought. I much prefer a set of universal tools a player always has access to, so that they could use those tools anytime, more strategically. It's an issue of player agency. It also doesn't help that certain RC sequences play out longer than others, and thus killing the pace of the fight more or less depending on the RC. Not to mention the parts of the game that forces you to use them either out of efficiency or outright necessity. I can appreciate your point on how they create a more unique relationship with the player on a per enemy basis, but I'd say that giving each enemy its own unique move set, health pools, and resistances surface in that regard. Having that extra element to the player and enemy relationship isn't worth the trade-off IMO. To each his own though. TL;DR: Contextual commands limit player agency compared to universal tools.
@@platinumconquest2365 Hmm you make very good points. Maybe Reaction commands would be better if they were activation by performing a perfect guard(like critical counter in KH3). After performing a perfect guard you'd be able to retaliate with a unique counter like risk dodge but instead it'd be unique to the enemy that you got the perfect guard on like a reaction command. Still unique retaliation attacks but given through timing and player skill.
@@platinumconquest2365 I'm going to give you the layman's reason to liking RCs: Bruv I'm just tryna smack shit with a giant key and look cool doing it and Reaction Commands are the coolest things in the game.
@@sonymicronin Even that solution wouldn't solve my issue with RC's. It arguably gives the player a bit more agency, but the issue of locking away tools behind specific enemies remain. I'd like to replace them entirely with a dedicated launch/descend function not bound to the same buttons as other important functions (seriously, how does KH still not a Helm Beaker equivalent at this point?). But if we absolutely had to keep Reaction Commands, I'd rework them to be kind of like enemy souls in Castlevania: AOS. The idea is that enemies have a chance to drop their essence, and Sora can equip those essences to gain an enemy specific reaction command. You could even equip multiple essences to use depending on Sora's state. A land command and an air command for example, maybe more. TL;DR: Either give me a High Time/Helm Breaker button or make reaction commands equipable.
"you just want games to be sequels to 2FM" yeah i actually would want sequals to games to reiterate and actually build on what made the previous games great
It's sad, really. KH2 was a tremendous leap in quality from KH1, improving in every aspect I'd say, easy, and... for as big a leap as it was, it's like the games after attempted to plunge lower and lower.
@@Peasham The only major downgrade to me was puzzles in the environment and exploration. Combat is snappy and fluid and you have all of your choices in front of you instead of like 33% chance for certain finishers
@@kayaplaaya9875 I initially didn't like 3 but with the all the free patches/dlc, I still haven't gotten Re:Mind, it made the combat a lot more fun for me. It's close to 2fm levels but not entirely there yet imo.
I mean, 2FM had *Weighty combat with snappy movement *An ability system that expanded player choice and gives immense depth *Drive forms were universal and expanded the importance of smart keyblade decisions for forms. * An actual balance of Final Fantasy and Disney
it also had *no level design to speak of at all *massive chunks of filler in the story between the opening, the battle of 1000 heartless, and the end *a massive grind to get movement abilities which are mostly useless unless you want to collect puzzle pieces (has anyone ever?) or complete the optional dungeon (this is actually worth it) *incredibly bullshit boss designs that mostly just involve getting lucky *unbalanced spells like magnet and reflect I love KH2FM, but I'm tired of people saying it's the perfect sequel when in pretty much every way other then the combat it's a step back from KH1
@@VivBrodock Oh yeah, the level design is on par with walking through Elementary school hallways with little or nothing to do... But I wouldn't say that everything between the opening and the 1K heartless battle is exactly filler. I mean, you've got Roxas's story, getting your new clothes, going to hallow bastion for the first time, being drip fed small things about the Organization, and occasional Twilight town visits. Also, I might've been that person that got all the puzzle pieces. I wouldn't say any of the bosses are really bullshit either since it is very much possible to go through the entire game without dying once if you're super informed... But yes, I do wish more areas were designed like the Optional Caverns.
@@VivBrodock no one said it's perfect. but why scrap the things that worked about the game, just because other aspects were less than stellar? at no point did this person say it was perfect, he just listed aspects of the game that were really good. why would that get you into a tiff? such an odd response. also, i'm sure quite a few people have collected puzzle pieces to acquire the incredibly useful executive ring and grand ribbon. but seeing you say that 2fm had "incredibly bullshit boss designs that mostly just involve getting lucky", i can only assume that you prefer games where you just get to mash x and then sit back and watch a cutscene.
This goes back to the entire "dont criticize product, just be excited and consume next product" shit that ABSOLUTELY plagued stuff like Pokémon Sword/Shield & TLOU2 defenders. As videogames become more casual and their productions more and more costly due to ever increasing graphical demands by said casual audience, less and less time is soent in development to refine, update and satisfy mechanical and design needs of the game. Twitter is only able to geberalize subjects due to the 280character limitation, therefore you can't broach a subject like you would in a forum or imageboard. Communities turn these cases of extremes where the majority don't want to see complaints, want to attach thwir personalities to a project or company and any one that points flaws is whatever buzzword van be thrown at them, the impact is never made and more and more games are developed as a product over being a videogame. Everything is designed to be safe, unoriginal and basic, nothing more.
I've seen way more people get triggered by people defending TLOU2 as opposed to getting triggered for people complaining about it. Then again, most of the complaints I've seen are, like, lies, so I guess that's not too surprising.
Peasham yea it's mainly the people who really don't want others to like the game, like I've seen some people unironically act like it's one of the worst games ever made and enjoying it makes you a bad person, all the discussion around that game is some of the most vitriolic shit I've seen in gaming, comparing it to the way people criticize KH3 seems more like an insult than anything else
@@boxcar9407 it's a mario 64 alternate reality game/creepypasta mix that's where it's from and search up mario 64 iceberg to learn more about this basically tldr is that this is a creepy meme about mario 64 having subtle differences from ai and etc
definitely this. i appreciate the fixes made to 3s combat with remind but every kh game after 1 has not even compared in terms of platforming and level design to the original game.
Man, even though I appreciate the spirit behind 1FM level design, I find that navigating those worlds are not all that enjoyable. It's difficult to tell where each door or passage way is going to lead you to. Like the Ship in Neverland, or the Caves in Atlantica. The constant back and forth of Deep Jungle. In 2FM is very easy to tell what is going to lead you where, because often times, you actually get to see it beforehand. I think that Cavern of Remembrance brought some of that spirit back and it would've been nice to see more of that. As for KH3, I think that they wanted each world to feel more like a playground, just simple fun.
@@GuilhermeTB1 Well, luckily KH2 onwards had a map as well as the Information bar to tell you where to go next, so a game with KH1's level design like KH3 shouldn't have that problem. Also more movement options even though I personally don't have a problem with the movement in KH1 myself.
On Situation Commands specifically, I feel like they’d be fine if they just got rid of RNG entirely. Like, yeah I did this cool Fire centric combo, give me my Fire Grand Magic as a reward. I don’t mind building a meter instead of choosing a menu option.
I used to think like this too. “KH3 is perfect you just hate it cause it’s not 2fm” But having played KH3 more, especially on critical. It has genuine problems that Need to be addressed in the future. Is it still fun? Yes. But is it as refined as 2fm? No. Though the Re:Mind superbosses give me hope that Osaka has learned.
As a fan of the series since the first game in the series. Its not even about wanting every game to play like KH2. Its the simple fact that KH2 is most balanced game in series. Also the fact that KH2 gave us a game, that casual & hardcore players both enjoyed. And now it's gotten to point that whenever you have an issue with the gameplay in the series it automatically goes to "YOU JUST WANT IT TO PLAY LIKE KH2" even when explaining things like floatyness and hit stun issues in most games post KH2 honestly it's just tiering afterwhile. Just hope that one day people can understand that what KH2 did so well is allow people both ends of the spectrum to enjoy the game.
It's more than just balancing, but yeah. Everyone ik of that dislikes kh3 has legitimate reasons for it and i'm always seeing new ones that make sense, despite not having that problem myself. The people not even trying to have a conversation about it and just poking fun are the stereotypical consumerist drones. They're just very vocal in this community. If it relates to their beloved, likely nostalgia-love tied company, the company and it's product/service can do no wrong and therefore you are wrong. It's tribal in nature, as many other things going on in the world are right now
KH2 isn't the most balanced game in the series, that spot is for KH1. I'm not even talking about cheesing. Like, you receive Trinity limit so early in the game that mob fights turn into a joke (even against large enemies, not counting bosses) and Sora receive so many combo modifiers that your reach a point where you don't even need to use most of your weapons, because base Sora is more than enough to handle everything.
@@elivcdxv1852 The parry thing "kinda" came back with the perfect guard ability included in Critical Mode for KH3... Not even close on satisfaction levels tho lol. Especially parrying Riku-Ansem felt amazing when you figured out his patterns
I want utility in options again. Summons, limits, drives and magic all had different uses and modifiers on eachother. 3 was so stale in most everything being just damage only
Stil my biggest gripe about KH3 combat to this day. KH3 Remind only fixed one aspect which was base Sora's physical combos, which while great still makes the combat pale in comparison to KH2FM's versatility and variety. KH3 is like a pocket knife while KH2FM is like a multi tool.
I think they should have kept formchanges and summons (and maybe grand magic, or get the RNG out of the system) as part of a drive bar, and do not give drive recovery. Too often the answer to combat is "spam the overpowered summon, and refresh with ethers", especially in Critical Mode.
@@vadandrumist1670 Drive Recoveries are fine, they were always Menu Only in 2, and its not like they made Tents battle usable, even if the mental image is wonderful
Ignoring the utility of some mechanics in KH3 is the same as saying "only summons are different in KH2, because the rest just damage enemies", which is objectively false. Everything has a different utility in KH3, the problem is that you can't notice that in lower difficulties because doesn't matter what you use, it will always work (pretty much like in every other KH game). The same happens in KH2, if you play in Proud or below you will never need to use other mechanic than base Sora combat, RC, Cure, Thunder and Reflect.
@@Mario_KHX I played 3 crit and beat yozora. I know water has I frames on cast and aero gathers enemies. But you really cant deny that every single option in kh3 is just damage, nothing really separates shotlocks from summons or attraction flow. Or even form changes for that matter. They're all just damage. Agile claws doesnt have any different utility from storm lance or buster hammer or really any form that isnt counter shield. They mostly all do the same thing
I actually liked re:chain, tbh. The issue about the topic of "wanting every game to be like kh2" is that it's not correct. That's not what people are saying, people are saying that some games aren't as balanced as KH2, and that's the issue. I'm not gonna write a whole ESSAY on why I don't like Birth by Sleep and KH3 in this comment section, but I ABSOLUTELY could. It's simply comes down to crucial gameplay mechanics not being as refined as the other titles in the series. EDIT: wanted to edit my comment to say that, I've played KH3 and KH2fm back to back lately, and I can definitely see the appeal of people who might like KH3 much more, I believe I had some heavy tunnel vision, KH3 isn't some like, horribly flawed game, and I've had issues in KH2fm that persist in KH3 or, issues only in KH2fm that aren't in 3 that were improved upon. I felt as though I came off pretty poorly. For those who might really just, hate KH3 try and clear your mind before goin' into it, cuz I def had some bias I didn't address. That said, I still think I like KH2FM more for combat.
Well balance and fluidity, casuals don't often consider the ramifications of something as simple as a "turn around" animation fucking up your movement in an action game or why combos/attacks can't be sluggish and too long. Turn around meaning simply turning the character around, say you're playing DMC and you need to turn around fast to hit an enemy, in those games turning around happens instantly but in a game like FFXV they have a whole slow animation for turning around and it breaks flow and movement, it looks smooth but the actual feeling of it is very sluggish. Something as simple as jumping feeling as clunky or choppy as it was in BBS destroys flow and movement.
@@arosbastion7052 Ah, the age old. "Your critique isn't actually valid you're telling a lie" Defense. Classy. Some of us actually liked KH3 but wanted some of Kh2FM's elements in KH3. You know like, precise controls, balanced options, tight revenge value management, combo control, combo mods etc. It's not like we like the individual elements and were sad about specific things, no it's because it isn't numbered the same. Clearly. Almost like, some of us enjoyed aspects of one game, and not another. You know, different opinions and tastes for different people. What a wild thing I know. People like different things. *GASP*
Clone Loli yup animations are way more fluid looking, but more sluggish feeling. Its the drawback to more realism. I like both, i dont really mind, Final fantasy feeling like that, cause i play it more for the story. Also i Hate to be that guy,(not really) but if these games were on PC it would be a-lot smoother feeling.
Havent watched the vid yet, but as a kh2fm fan, I wouldn't mind different gameplay changes as long as the mechanics are balanced and the story was at least better.
It's not about wanting every post-KH2 game to be a sequel to KH2 (even though they are, by definition), it's about none of them even attempting to be as good if not better than KH2. Not even FM, base, I'd argue. I don't think it's entitled to expect a sequel to be better than the game before it, I'd even settle for it being just as good, if not just a bit worse. But nah, it's entitled to expect games to be okay nowadays.
To be fair tough after KH2 this isn't the same team so not the same Level of abilities, and to be honnest while not being as good as KH2FM Team Osaka did a massive improvment on the gameplay side with KH3 over BBS and DDD (which were honnestly kind of garbage gameplay wise) and even more with ReMind and for me this prove that at least they care and they are trying, the KH3's Data Org and Yozora were the most fun fights I did in a KH games since my LV1 Run of KH2FM and I praise them for that and I really hope they will continue to improve in that direction.
@@nesoukkefka1741 KH2 isn't the same team... as compared to what? To be completely honest, improving upon BBS and DDD isn't an achievement, it's LESS than the bare minimum one should put into any action game. It's okay to enjoy their combat, or any KH game's combat, but I don't think they stand up to scrutiny. As for proving that they were trying with ReMind, the only thing it proved to me is that Nomura cares more about Versus 13 than Kingdom Hearts. And he can care about it all the wants, mind you, but from most accounts it's his fault that Versus 13 never got made, and I find it despicable that you have to fund the project he ruined KH3 for if you want to have any fun with KH3. Not only is it largely stuff that should've been in the base game (as in, scenes in the base game don't make sense on PURPOSE so they can be finished in ReMind), but then I have to deal with Nomura's baby rage, no, just no. No amount of okay boss design is worth that.
@@Peasham KH2 is handle by Square's Tokyo Team and BBS, DDD and KH3 are handle by Osaka's team, they aren't the same developper. To be perfectly honnest I don't care at all for KH's story, plot wise BBS was disappointing and DDD was straight up garbage, Nomura can do all the bullshit he want at this point it won't change anything, KH's story is a complete mess since a long time and anybody who deny it is just delusionnal, so I don't mind him picking up his lost ideas for Versus XIII in KH at that point plot-wise the KH series is fucked so whatever they pull in it won't change anything. The boss design for Datas and Yozora was great, and while I do agree this DLC is way too expensive, and the story part sucks, but gameplay wise it was enjoyable and free patch they did to improve Sora's base combos was more than welcome.
@@nesoukkefka1741 I mean, I'll be honest, I don't care. Every sequel to Devil May Cry 3 was handled by a different dev team, and yet every single one, even including the one handled by a completely different company, was presentable. Never was there a drop in quality as gigantic as in Kingdom Hearts. Other people handling the sequels simply put is not an excuse. If they weren't fit for the job, others should've developed the sequels. Oh, it is an absolute fucking mess, I mostly just gave a damn about the characters. Funnily enough, it's kinda like DMC, the plots are more often than not trash, but it's the characters that make them shine. I had zero expectations for the plot, but shit, I thought the character would interact with each other. Like, at all. Not only was the setup perfect for fun interactions, it literally makes zero sense that some characters didn't interact with each other. I figured he'd drop the ball on the plot, he's been doing that shit since BBS onwards, but jesus christ, Riku doesn't say a single word to Kairi or vice versa. That's some next level shit if ya ask me, and that's why I don't even wanna think of supporting Versus 13, it's clear he cared more about putting that in the game as opposed to not only the plot of KH3, but the characters of KH3. I wouldn't have bought KH3 had I known it'd go to funding Versus 13, and I'm not about to pay 30 bucks for okay superbosses when regular enemies back in KH2 were designed just as well.
@@Peasham Honestly Limit cut and Secret episode have the best gameplay content in kh history. So calling them merely ok or just as a way to promote versus XIII isnt really fair.
KH2FM is to KH3RM as Whole Grain Cereal is to Fruit Loops. One offers more substance and nutrition as opposed to color or sugary flavor, but in the end it’s still just a bowl of cereal. I don’t know, don’t ask why. It came in my head at 2 am I’m tired, ok thanks, great video BB. 👏
@@jazaelperez5213 KH2 combat is like a Multi tool while KH3 is like a pocket knife. KH3 looks sharp and cool but it's combat variety and versatility is narrow. KH2FM'S combat gives you multiple tools at your disposal and each tool has their own merit and distinct use.
13:00 I think maybe something that's missing here is that a lot of the wider KH fanbase aren't huge fans of action games like DMC or competitive games with complex inputs in general, and see the genre almost as incidental relative to the story or characters or plot that they play it for.
Well it's not even about complex inputs or difficulty in action games, it's literally just how satisfying it is to hit stuff in a game about hitting stuff.
my general comment on folks who like kh3 over kh2, who like style and WOW factor over substance, is: I'm glad you're having fun. perhaps you would also enjoy this nice Kaleidoscope
Well said. - I recently played through KH2FM on critical mode for the first time, and wow. It was one of the best and most memorable gaming experiences I’ve ever had. Learning enemy and boss AI / moves, employing different strategies, utilizing my toolset to the fullest without it ruining the game or trivializing the difficulty. - It was just.. so refreshing. -not just for a KH game, but as a game in general as well. - And I think I should clarify to any naysayers that this isn’t coming from a place of biased nostalgia; I actually played the Osaka games way before I did KH2. Its only in retrospect that I’ve grown to vastly appreciate and enjoy KH2FM’s rich mechanical depth and competency. - That said, I encourage Osaka team to push themselves. Despite my many grievances with KH3, I believe they could very well deliver a product just as good as 2FM if they put their heads together and set out to understand why KH2FM is regarded so highly from an objective mechanical / design perspective.
I find the accusation “all KH2FM fans just want every KH to be a clone of 2FM” hilariously reminiscent of “All TTYD fans want every PM to be a clone of TYD.” - ..like, no. lol, that’s a very shallow accusation / mindset to have. Yes I’m sure those kind of fans do exist, but nah don’t put words in our mouth. We prefer KH2FM and TTYD over the subsequent games because despite how old they are (around 15 years) they manage to be more mechanically deep / competent in comparison to the products being made now. - Having a KH game where Sora’s block just doesn’t work sometimes is a problem. having a PM game where tens of thousands of coins are thrown at you, thus squandering your incentive to battle is a problem. Having a KH game where enemies just fall out of combos because they’re too floaty is a problem. Having a PM without all the things that gave the series its unique identity is a problem. - Nitpicking is one thing, but fairly criticizing a game’s objective design flaws is another. There are still elements to enjoy in any game sure, but if your response to the criticism is simply “get used to it / accept and enjoy it for what it is without criticizing it,” well.. that’s just complacency.
Lance Beryl I don’t mind the new paper Mario games I think the paper Mario fanbase only wants battles to have a meaning with lvls but they don’t necessarily want a clone of ttyd
Asian yeah. I still need to play origami king to make a fair assessment. - Obviously the ditching of more robust stories and mechanics, apparent balancing issues, and a lack of legitimately original races / characters also are some of the complaints I and many others have about the recent direction. - The new games may still be enjoyable in their own sort of way, but yeah.. it’s disappointing to know where the series could be, how much farther it could push beyond, yet it likely never will. - We have a slew of indies upcoming tho, so that original spirit may continue to live on somewhere I guess..
Lance Beryl yeah I heard there is a game called bug fables that resembles the good old paper Mario series back in its glory days haven’t played it yet though
3:40 I consider 2FM the best game ever made, and want to see it *exceeded.* Not repeated. So far I've been disappointed. :) I haven't found another game that offers a similar amount of useful variety. I haven't found another game that offers potential for total mastery through the existence of revenge value, which allows the player to manipulate boss behavior almost completely in many fights given sufficient knowledge and skill. I haven't found another game that feels that fast and snappy in its combat (though I will say that YS 8 feels pretty good).
I just realized, 2FM fans have the EXACT same complaints on certain mechanics they wanted as DMC fans who played DMC 4 religiously wanted for DMC 5. KH2 fans will complain about the lack of snappy combos in KH3, as well as the lack of Drive forms, meaningful expression, etc. With DMC fans, they complain about the lack of inertia, no Royal Guard flying, no Turbo mode, and other stuff from DMC 4 that weren't in DMC 5.
Lax C. I feel like we do, since it seems like a logical development for Sora, each transformation has red, blue or yellow and I think green? and then white for the ultimate keyblade
@@Peasham Wait, which unlockables? I'm actually curious about this since besides the Devil Breakers and the second Cavalier I wasn't aware of anything else being paid content (In the context of actual money rather than Red Orbs, anyways.) Aside from that question, still hoping we get a 5SE with more options and a randomish BP option like DMC3 had.
@@sonymicronin Yeah honnestly I think it's sad cause at the end of the day no games is perfect there is always some flaws, most people criticing the game and comparing with KH2FM just want the games to be as good or even better than that, which I think is good.
@@nesoukkefka1741 Yeah. We just want an evolution and improvement over KH2FM, not a carbon copy. For many of us KH3 wasn't even bad, it was good but just dissapointing that it wasn't better than KH2FM. In fact, as someone who adores KH2FM and places it in my top 3 games of all time, even I can state some legitimate criticism against it. For example I can say for sure that KH1 and KH3 did world design and interaction and exploration leagues better than KH2. Also I think the Graphics of KH3 are phenomenal, a good evolution of KH2 graphics. It just a shame that combat was worse imo, and for me and others who mainly play and enjoy KH for it's combat that was a huge disappointment.
Well it is also vice versa to be honest. I have seen enough examples that the person who criticize things go completely hyporite when the other guy gives criticism to something else. People like to believe that someone who carefully construct criticism and state facts are very collected people, but if someone else does the same for his or hers favorite media, like 70% of the time they will deny it and call you a liar. So it is just like an endless circle without an end, you can blame the fanboys, but I believe that everyone is a little hypocrite, myself included.
Per my profile pic it's obvious I love 2FM and I've also done a few speedruns of varying sorts on it. I've played it many times and adore the game. That said, it disheartened me that you really work for the 2FM arguments and give none to the KH3 arguments. For example, I thought of plenty of much more reasonable counter arguments and to me that shows you're not showing the strongest arguments you've seen or can imagine (as shown in the 2nd slide) but just whatever makes KH3 fans look dismissive and that sucks.
There are more reasonable counterarguments, but the discussion isn't really a "who is right?" or "who has the better argument?", it's a discussion about how 2FM fans will bring up something they dislike about KH3, and the response by a large chunk of fans is "you just want 2FM" instead of providing an actual counterargument. Apologies in advance if it felt like I was generalizing all KH3 fans, cause that wasn't the intention.
@@Bl00dyBizkitz I get that to an extent, maybe I'd just like to see you gabbing with someone you respect who values KH3 more than you (not that you cant have your own opinion!). I think itd make an interesting dialogue as opposed to you pulling at the low hanging fruit. Cause yeah, to be totally clear I 100% agree with you that "we want another 2FM!" is not what 2FM fans are saying and I should know, I'm a huge fan myself!
I've played through KH2 quite a few times. I somewhat recently finished the main story and all non-2fm bosses on crit level 1. One of the things that I enjoyed the most about that particular playthrough was how every fight felt like a puzzle as well as a test of skill. The game gives you so many tools to work with that it makes it a lot of fun to try out different abilities, builds, summons, items, etc, to see just what works well against each encounter. Of course it wasn't all fun. The first part of the game is pretty brutal since you don't actually have any tools to work with, and there are a couple of other fights after that which are pretty terrible on crit level 1 (I'm looking at you Genie Jafar, The Experiment Groundshaker, and Final Xemnas, the last of whom still has broken reaction commands)
You'll notice that with exception for Final Xemnas, those all restrict your options in some way, Genie Jafar is Genie Jafar and The Jankass Carpet Combat, Groundshaker is Lion Sora... and then ignores all the cool stuff Lion Sora can do, unlike Scar, The Experiment is pretty much The Example of a boss thats horribly dependent on its RC to fight due to becoming invulnerable, I don't count the Beast's Castle bosses because those're just HP Gates on the "adds" phase rather then chasing down a angry laser head to make the boss vulnerable again
Personally, KH3 actually did copy and/or build upon KH2FM in certain respects. They both have the same MP system. They both have combo modifiers, but KH3 moved them to circle, so you could dodge or block mid-combo. In fact, for all their flaws, free combo cancels is something that all of the Osaka Team games did better than KH2FM-KH3 was just the first one to have snappier attacks with proper hitstun as well. Aside from combo cancels, Revenge is one of the most improved aspects from KH2FM to KH3. Basically now, enemies give reactable tells on their Revenge Attacks, which keeps all of the beneficial properties of a Revenge System, but makes it more fair to the player. In fact, I was particularly unhappy about the old way, because DMC3 showed how to do it right with the Vergil boss fights. Another thing I want to address is Formchanges. You see, I liked them because none of them had the severe defensive shortcomings that some KH2FM’s Drive Forms had, and many of KH3’s Forms felt sufficiently unique. Shields were good for blocking & ultra powerful reprisals, Blitz Form was good for having dodge attacks, hammers were good for AOE & hitstun, Element Form was good for ranged magic attacks a la Wisdom Form, and Mirage Staff had that unique clone attack mechanic. Moreover, it’s often been erroneously claimed that KH3 Forms don’t have a cost, and this is largely untrue. Rather, risk IS the cost of being able to enter a Form, since in most scenarios, attacking enemies leaves Sora open to being attacked himself. Moreover, since the Situation meter drops if Sora remains passive, it encourages players to build momentum and not just try to run away from enemies.
Well said. The simple fact that KH3 has only been out for a single year (almost two) while 2 and 2FM have been out for 14 years respectively, shows that there is simply not enough time just yet to fully explore KH3's combat. Even 2FM didn't build up the reputation and recognition of its insanely intricate combat until 2013-2014 with 2.5 ReMIX on the PS3! I personally love KH3 especially with 1.09 which made it top KH2 for me instantly. Combo cancelling makes a lot of the unwanted risk go away with proper use, plus Double Form is basically every single KH3 drive in one, except Wrathful Flurry! (which I think is the shield's reprisal.) Fast, blitzy combos of the speed/blitz form, heavy hitting finishers of the power form, AMAZING range, plus 360 block, its own launcher and ground crusher, and some of the coolest combos in the entire series. Yeah KH3 doesn't have Explosion, Horizontal Slash or Dodge Slash, but it is honestly better than KH2 at this point in my opinion, Data Org is objectively better, and all in all I just feel like people are sometimes just looking for ways to keep 2FM on a pedestal. Maybe for some KH3RM doesn't evoke the same feel of 2FM. Thats fine. But its the fact that its successes are just not acknowledged that widely in contrast. Trueblade Seeker does some of the most insane shit with KH3's combat while still no damaging bosses, and thats just crazy to me. Not to mention on your point of forms, the fact that you can't block at all in a Drive in 2/2FM is just ridiculous lol.
@@zerosolis6664 The point about Drive Forms is especially important, because you have to pay a high fixed cost to enter a form, so you can’t just spend a little bit of meter and there’s no real parity between cost and benefit with respect to form time. On of KH2’s biggest flaws was the fact that its difficulty could mostly only seem to jump between extremes. And I think this issue with the forms is a leading contributor. If enemies aren’t powerful and relentless enough, then camping with Cure magic and/or spamming Magnet Burst & entering forms to heal trivialized any damage they dealt. On the other hand, if they were fast & powerful enough, then you’d be floundering around trying to deal with Sora’s subpar defensive options and high costs for entering forms. It would’ve been better if forms and summons alike just directly used Drive Gauges over time like a Devil Trigger. Additionally, a couple of the forms should’ve had better defensive prowess. Conversely, entering a form should not have healed Sora, and instead, a very slow HP regen over time would’ve been great, because it would’ve made an interesting trade off- that is, attack in a form but have less form time for HP regen or attack less for more HP restoration.
Oh shut up. Revenge on mobs is nuts. I'm comboing that larxene nobody and he just starts taking no damage and does the lightning attack messing me up. It makes you lose time.
At 13:20, did the patch that he mentioned come out before or after the Xbox version? I played the Xbox version at launch and didn't notice anything weird about the combos, but I am not generally an action game guy so I probably wouldn't notice either way.
I think both 2fm and 3rm are amazing games and my absolute favorites in the series. I can play them both many times over and not get bored. To me both have things the other does better.
Think my experience is different from interactions with the community. It's not the "this issue could be better with [2FM feature]" that bothers me, it's responses on the level of "this issue is not like [2FM feature] IDK how people like this". Which IMO seems like a very binary statement (caused again, by the 240 character sound bytes mentioned). And to that, ofc I'll "defend" a game because it's not that black and white. e.g. floaty combat: yes, I can see how this can bother people who want to play at a high level. No, I don't think it, by itself, ruins a game. Me playing through BBS's 3 campaigns twice and still having a good time clearly show there's something there that appeals to me and others out there. And TBH, it wouldn't be the very first thing I'd fix in BBS either (enemy hitstun would. floatiness is maybe top 5).
Yeah, the other half of the extreme exists as well and it's equally as annoying. Probably even more so for fans who publicly enjoy 2FM's game design because they get lumped into the whole dumb thing.
@@Bl00dyBizkitz yeah, that's definitely a big crux of it. Of course I love many features in KH2. But I'd rather not have every discussion on what are generally not gamebreaking issues I have in a game turn into a turf war. Think that's a big thing of it. Short of CoM's card battle system and 358's level design (IMO), there aren't that many game mechanics in KH that I feel "break" a game for me. But it seems any praise or criticism of a feature reflects on the entire game in the lens of some people. Which just isn't true, obviously. It's not like Anlantica's sheer existence means everything in KH 1/2 are on the same level as it.
Exactly there wasn't a lot of variety while Kh2 had many abilities that changed your combos and used many different buttons rather than just X to change how the combo works
@@_NeonFlame_ I mean, KH2 only had horizontal slash/upper slash and finishing leap that you just pressed square to use, KH3 still has rising spiral and groundbreaker that you use with circle, and personally I enjoy using them way more after the patch, especially in double form where it actually has its own launcher and ground crusher. I do agree though with OP, we didn't like get a new finisher just for the air. Last Charge could've been the new ground finisher (ala Explosion) and we could have gotten something like a mini Ars attack (similar to the stuff Terra uses for example in BBS and as Terra-Xehanort being a boss) for an air finisher.
I think tying transformations to keyblades was probably a bad idea. It's a cool idea in concept that is meaningfully different than Drive forms since it's tied to your loadout and not the other way around, but it's difficult to provide meaningful distinctions between them. The game obviously has to give you more than 4-5 keyblades so you end up with certain ones just being redundant because it can be very difficult to find ways to shake-up gameplay. Working on my own games I sometimes find myself stretching my ideas thin by putting how cool a concept/feature would would be before the core of the gameplay and how feasibly I can actually change it up. KH3's transformations don't necessarily need to modify things the same as 2's do(even though they share a significant amount of systems like abilities), but there's only so many ways you can modify the base gameplay in a balanced way. I think 2(FM) was already starting to push it with Master and Final form but they're just meaningfully different enough to be okay. They also piled on attributes that make each form unique like their movement abilities, extra abilities in general, and unique properties like Limit's healing and magic replacement. Some of that is there in 3 but them being tied to Keyblades makes them replaceable. You're not really encouraged to learn what makes these forms unique and they're not distinct enough to force you to. And since they can be swapped you don't really strategize around them the way you do when you equip specific keyblades to drive forms in KH2 or spend enough time with them to think about a specific one as part of your arsenal. It leads to them feeling less like a loadout you have prepared for specific situations and more like super move you can do with one of your weapons. In which case you're just going to pick the coolest one or settle for the one on the best keyblade stat-wise you have. I'd also argue that there's enough keyblades to make it difficult to really keep track of the individual differences in your head unless you're committed to learning the game beyond what it really asks of you, except between the 5 or so broader categories of forms. I also don't feel like transformations and shotlocks really carry the same weight that abilities on keyblades did in 2. There was some trade-off to using the very best weapons (Zero EXP and Negative combo) that isn't really present in 3. The abilities also enhanced Sora's core gameplay in meaningful way by modifying what you were already doing in gameplay rather than feeling like something slapped on top of the core of the game. Shotlocks especially have that feeling of 'each keyblade has it's own minigame' that doesn't really compare to the strategy of having to pick between much quicker MP regen or better finisher damage. 2's keyblade abilities felt like an upgrade to 1, where each new keyblade tended to feel like the new best one for one of the stats. The abilities gave each one a real value, even (especially really for some of the Data fights) at the end of the game. 3's sadly feel like a half step down. There's definitely a strategic element that goes into which one you pick but it still kind of boiled down to which one had the higher numbers for me when I played through. Been a while since I've played 3 (and haven't played the DLC or Critical yet due to being busy with school and work) so I apologize if I've forgotten anything about this. Going mostly off my memory and some quick wiki checking. Thank you for reading my essay of a comment!
Dang, I really hope you do play the DLC/update 1.09 and Critical then! You may find yourself second guessing some of this or at least really enjoying it besides. Personally, I still enjoyed each Keyblade's abilities in KH3, especially since upgrading them gave you new ones. And I've always loved Shotlock from BBS so I was ecstatic to see it return, and have every Keyblade have their own base level shotlock, and max level shotlock. Hell, Starlight even has a completely different Ragnarok to the kingdom key. Using Fire Boost against Marluxia for example by using Dawn Till Dusk or Master Chef (just like using Bond of Flame in 2FM against Demyx, Vexen or Marluxia) especially when you're also using accessories or armor that give you those abilities, really does still make a difference. Yeah because you can upgrade them higher strength/magic IS important, but I always found myself switching it up. I don't want to talk too much about the updates/DLC/critical as you said you haven't played yet, but I really do think you'll enjoy it! Think about how many times you may have played 2FM, and how long the game has been out. There has not nearly been enough time for people to truly experiment with everything KH3/ReMind has to offer. Final Form Firaga strats are basically back too for speedruns lol.
@@zerosolis6664 Yo, I appreciate the reply! I picked up Remind recently when it was on sale and just got some time off from school/work. I plan on playing through it soon and doing a Crit playthrough before that. I still had a lot of fun with KH3 the first time through so I'm excited to play it with all of the changes and especially the new bosses. Really looking forward to it!
@@goblinpope No problem! Sick. I do believe that the new abilities are NG+, so if you have a Proud clear save, and you dont mind having all your Keyblades right away (including Ultima, they will all be base level again) you can start a Critical playthrough with all the new abilities I think! I actually played level 1 Proud right after I beat the game the first time and even though that was with the old combos and it was still a fun challenge, I actually started some crit level 1 data org today (I EZ code'd a lvl 1 crit run specifically to have one quickly for remind content xD but I do plan to do a real crit level 1 run soon) and level 1 is just so much better on crit. Scaling is actually pretty good in data org/secret boss, and I did some test fights with Battlegate 0, and San Fransokyo (latest-game content possible for best results I felt), and especially using Ultima Weapon/Kingdom Key/Oathkeeper and Oblivion, and with the new combos, formchanges, especially Second Form Keyblades and Light/Dark form, actually feel like extensions to Sora's combat instead of using transformations for combos other than speed slash or triple rush haha. And what's crazy is that those abilities are actually really good to use now because of combo cancelling! It might seem like placebo but Sora does do more damage now (especially if you use Ultima for combo boost/air combo boost) due to having a longer combo. Imagine kh2fm's level 1 damage without combo finishers like explosion or modifiers like flash step/snapshot. so level 1 is actually quite fun! Especially in battlegate 0 I felt like it didnt drag. blocking and countering/using magic and forms felt satisfying and pretty balanced imo. Links are still either really good or not that great I'd say at level 1, but they are definitely not strong enough anymore to even be considered to be used instead of Sora's base kit or transformations. Still think they're better than kh2 summons but they really needed variety and some more balance. Anyway sorry to have such a long reply again, I hope to hear some of your thoughts later if possible! KH3's base game still has some issues especially with enemies but overall the changes to the combat really make mob fights more enjoyable if you ask me. Especially combo cancelling by itself! Knowing you can guard and dodge out of anything (other than stuff like final finishers but it's still good timing if you're quick!), and I'm talking like even as fast as being able to guard after you trigger Dark Inferno's counter via RV, or as fast as the first swing of speed slash or first hit of triple rush, just makes high risk high reward a thing and makes you feel safer in mobs. Plus don't forget risk dodge! It's good lol. There are still things like enemies you cant see (I always felt like mobs sometimes had too many enemies haha but it's more manageable now imo), but stuff like off screen lock on actually helps with that now. Anyways like i said i dont want to talk too much about it but here I am going off haha. You should experience it yourself! Have fun dude and enjoy the data fights. It'll be worth the wait and replay to get to them on critical!
You missed one of my personal complaints, Any disney worlds with the exception of monster's inc, toy story and big hero 6 are literal garbage compared to kh2 or kh1. Except for the 3 I mentioned that had custom stories made for the game the rest all but completely remove sora from their movie's plot line, have no character progression and feign progress without explaining anything. Like in Frozen you meet elsa once and anna once and outside of that you are climbing up and down a mountain only to fight a random heartless that comes out of a guy they don't introduce in game. Hercules you meet herc like 3 times and they don't explain/show the plot of the movie at all really only for sora at the end to talk to herc as if sora even knew herc was dealing with where he belonged as far as mortal vs god realm. PotC you are only there for the start and end of the movie plot with random movie cutscenes thrown in there in between (that happen without sora even knowing). Tangled you see a few almost completely ripped from the movie cutscene with sora thrown in, have no visible character progression but now the 2 characters love each other and stuff happens, etc etc. And not to forget that nothing of real story importance happens in any of the worlds. Honestly between the random implementation of "attraction flows" that they never give an in game reason for, how bad the movie plots of disney worlds are and the removal of all final fantasy characters (outside of moogles and not counting anything from the dlc) from the game it all feels extremely sus that disney was pulling some shit and squenix can't say anything about it. Also why'd they have to go with the ending they did? Sora is finally away from donald and goofy and it was the perfect opportunity to let sora and kairi have a game together but nope can't let them ever spend more than a handful of cutscenes together.
In kingdom hearts 1 and (arguably) kingdom hearts 2, the Disney worlds complemented the central narrative. In kingdom hearts 3 the Disney worlds were a narrative hindrance so detached from the central story that even the main character wasn't sure why he was there. What's the point of even having a Disney world if you're not even going to confront any of the film's antagonists?
Nothing of real story importance happens in the worlds? Did you even pay attention? The black box was brought up in The Caribbean. Vanitas shows up in Monstroplis. The 7 princesses of heart were a MASSIVE plot point and were brought up in both Arendelle and Tangled. There were tons of important things. Also KH2 had the exact issue that you think KH3 had. Literally none of the worlds in KH2 had anything to do with the plot, and I’d argue Sora felt more disconnected in the plot of those worlds than KH3. & None of those worlds progress Sora as a character. I love KH2, don’t get me wrong. But it had a ton of issues with its Disney worlds. Issues that weren’t nearly as present in KH3.
@@BobbyTheGamerOfJUSTICE Those are merely scrabbles. Just adding one or two little quips of plot does not over yet give much. There is more when it comes interesting story and execution. It is true those chars appear in those worlds but in the end it doesn't really affect to end results in very compelling way. But unlike in KH2 they at least had some funny moments which gave a vision that these Disney folks had their own local campaign against Darkness. I agree that KH2 is the lowest on the ranks when it comes down to Disney worlds, which overall weakens its plot. Damn... I kinda wish Roxas had been the main char in KH2. He likely as a Nobody doomed to fade would have had many kin moments with Auron and maybe forging his own friendships with locals while rebelling against his old crew had been big improvement.
I actually like kh1 more sometimes, it was well balanced. If the game is not fun it's not that we love just one game. Re coded was awesome and it's similar to bbs, but has better combat and balance
There's a weird trend in games that's kind of boiling over now where as games have degraded over the course of its series, the people that liked the older games and want the new games to be more like them are now bashed as being elitists, see KH2FM, see Melee, see Paper Mario series. Zelda might go through this too if BOTW and BOTW2 are a turning point for 3d zelda games.
Great analysis, that could be tied to similar discussions outside of the KH fandom. I want to add something to it: part of what made the discourse surrounding the gameplay of KH how it is also comes from how they released several "important" chapters on multiple consoles with at times completely different gameplay and combat system. Ultimately I think it was more to its detriment because it made some fans used to the concept of just scrapping most of the previous games' ideas in order to pursue a new system from scratch, understandably making a lot of mistakes or oversights along the way each time because, well, you're wrestling with a different beast every time. Truthfully, this "KH2FM debate" should end the moment we say "We just want the newer KH titles to take what KH2 FM did good and expand on that", because that's just a better way to ensure that every new KH title will be more polished and refined, but other fans are now so used to the idea of "Yeah no KH2 was good but that was it, it had some good concepts but they should stay there with it, every new KH needs to be completely different" that in their minds is even RIGHT that KH III Sora has bad combos or that some tools made specifically to reference the KH II ones are inferior. The concept that a 20 years old franchise starts anew every time has become so normalized some don't even see the deriving shortcomings anymore. One just needs to take a look around: Mario for instance is such a diverse franchise, but it makes it perfectly clear when something is a spin-off diversion and when something is the next big main installment that tries to improve upon the original games. So people will rarely respond to criticism towards a Super Mario Bros game by saying "No it's fine because when you look at Paper Mario, it also had a few problems". Instead we have KH III, then we have the main villain's past showcased in a mobile game wich is completely different, and whatever will happen to Kairi after Re:Mind will come in a rhythm one. Everything is so different yet so forcefully connected that making people understand that KH2 FM shouldn't just exist in the "KH2 FM dimension" but should be a stepping stone for the bigger picture becomes an at times impossible task.
EXACTLY!!! It's funny, really. When I finished the last Disney world on KHIII, I stopped playing altogether. It just didn't feel like the same franchise. For a while, I thought to myself, "Why do I feel so gross playing this game I waited for so long for?" I figured it out 3 months later: 1. The story was no longer personal 2. The gameplay was uncontrollable and weightless. Tbh I only cared about the sea-salt trio, Sora and Riku. There was too much plot points and people I didn't care about in the way. I didn't like where Nomura was heading with the story, so I left. I'm now watching the series from a distance, shaking my head as people still follow along with the bs.
A lot of the KH2FM detractors really don't realize just how well made KH2FM is as an action game. It had great combat, a very large roster of enemies/bosses to fight that threw curveballs at you all the time, plenty of options you could use in a fight, great mobility options (which were somewhat wasted due to the lack of platforming outside of CoR imo), every weapon had genuine reason to be picked over others even in the late game for certain situations or playstyles, and it introduced two absolutely amazing design concepts in the form of both revenge value and the battle level system (the thing that makes level 1 runs even possible without sucking)
To be fair, if every keyblade transformation was distinctly different then some keyblades would see virtually no use (as it stands you can use whatever keyblades you want with effectively similar results) take valor form for example, yeah, you’ll abuse it while you can but once you unlock master form or limit form there isn’t really a reason to ever use valor again, at that point you’d be deliberately limiting yourself. I agree that there is very little difference between the keyblade transformations from a functionality viewpoint but there is enough of a difference in how each ‘type’ of transformation ‘feels’ that everyone tends to have their own personal preference, some like the claw type transformations, others like hyper hammer, others like Highwind and stormflag or second form. It could certainly be better, but when the differences between the different transformations become to functionally different, some will naturally get the short end of the stick while others become ‘the best’ kind of like how no one uses hidden dragon. The spells however... those could have been better 😓
Ah, if only kh3 had reliable defense magic, good guarding, combos that feel proper, better revenge value, more balanced summoning, smoother control of the character, limits that aren't random, damage scaling on crit lv 1, control over when I want a drive form.... So much more...
@@silentjoker45 it sucks so hard. Especially when I look at the vanitas mod or aqua mod. How can a small team of fans make a better kh game than what Osaka team could do with kh3?
Aside from the guarding very rarely(in my experience) failing, the guarding feels pretty damn good, it's still a mostly a pretty a mindless game where your hardest choice is to either do a big dick aoe attack at the expense of your mp or to do a shittier version of that same attack except you don't lose all your mp
Usually as soon as you post a criticism, they'll go and say "Can you just let other people enjoy their game? stop spreading negative vibes" aaand we're done, you can't say anything, they just won.
Well I wouldn't say they've won. It's just we've hit an impasse/brick wall because the other side isn't willing to listen nor have their minds changed so at that point we're just wasting time.
@@Webshooters1 If someone is not seeking formal critiques ,and you put upon them formal critiques they have every right to say that. It's like some random stranger coming up to you, and telling you not to offer critiques on something when it wasn't requested. It makes you want to respond, and it makes you want to argue the point, and you will argue the point, and at that point all that has happened is an argument. An argument does indeed "spread negative vibes" when the person simply wants to enjoy a game they like without being inundated with negative vibes from people feeling compelled to tell them they shouldn't enjoy the game...which is, in fact, what you are saying in making such unrequested criticisms. Do away with this thought that "I'm just pointing out flaws to try to help a series I like" You aren't going to help the series by flaunting your dislike to random people who do like it. Doing so is only seeking backlash, and argument.
@@alexrivers8163 most of these conversations are reserved to public internet spaces. Everyone has the right to post whatever praises or criticisms they wish on public forums/videos/etc. If someone enjoys a game less because other people on the internet, thats just a sign that they are incredibly immature and insecure. If someone was truly secure with themselves, negative opinions on their personal taste would not effect their enjoyment whatsoever. If it really effects someone that much then they should evaluate their relationship with the internet.
6:28 "its not actually about whether a person likes or dislikes situation commands". Honestly sums up about every conversation about kh3. Any criticism of kh3 rarely gets met with a critically thought out point of view. Most often than not you'll get the same response of "i liked so and so". It just shows that a lot of people take criticism as personal attacks for some odd reason. I feel that 2FM fans usually can admit and respect the flaws that people point out in 2fm and still appreciate some of the things that kh3 brought to the table. I can not say the same for the other way around. Most criticisms of kh3 are responded to with personal feelings, getting called a "hater", or just out right fabricated criticisms of kh2 such as drive forms being broken because the drive gauge fills up too fast (like what?). Funny how only some fans have the maturity to admit both the positive and negatives of a game.
Even if I agree with every single thing you’re saying in this video, the way you represent each side of the Fanbase is so one-sided it makes it hard to watch
As someone who is not really a huge KH fan (and definitely wouldn’t say I’m part of any KH community) I like KH2FM the most. The largest reason for this is actually not about the combat. I think the way KH2 told the story is much better than KH1 and KH3. Also, KH2 has way more of the types of bosses that I think really shine, as all of the org fights are interesting and rewarding. KH3 doesn’t have a lot of those fights in it without the DLC (which I don’t own). Those are what I think are actually the short comings of KH3.
not sure if i agree on the story part, i like both KH1 and KH2's story for different reasons, both have their advantages but both also have their shortcomings, KH1 has more going on and more consistency where KH2 has more emotion and drama, sometimes very stupid drama, like when a rock falls on Goofy, where the events are really ridiculous but the scene is still treated deathly serious, i'm okay with that but someone else who prefers a more streamlined story like KH1 might see that, go "fuck that i'm out", here's the thing, neither is wrong i do think KH1 has KH2 beat by a mile in pacing tho, KH2 feels like it constantly has to balance itself tonally and forgets what its doing with the plot sometimes and veers off it, like the revisits to the disney worlds, whereas KH1 only forced you to do 3 revisits that were all short, and had a more natural cause for them
I don't agree on the story part. Most of the Organization members lacked a proper background. KH2's plot is basically "Kill every hooded guy you encounter for whatever reason while searching for Riku.".
@@livix3767: that's oversimplification, i will say i hate how fixated nomura became on org XIII and zeenort as the games go on -legit hoping the next KH whatever it is has zero ties to them- but i think they're one of the better elements of KH2's plot due to how they and Sora interact, it's not super deep but gives you a good reason for why you want to beat the bad guys while not being completely unrelatable that said i do think the execution could've been much better, outside of the twist after 1K heartless, beast's castle and at the end of the game you don't really experience the effects that this evil group have really had on the world
@@dmas7749 KH2's story is mostly missed potential and bad execution. I don't think missing playing CoM affects much since Namine has no presence in story that I cared to know more. Outside of Roxas' demise, and even that was kinda rushed, drama parts were merely drops in water and mostly shoehorned. I think the biggest mistake was to not make Roxas the main protag in KH2. Sora would've just been Han Soloed to organization tower and Roxas eventually agrees to go rescue him with his Riku and folks while facing his old camaderies. That would have been far more genuine drama.
@@Yurikon3 i won't argue with most of the first part, it's far from well crafted but kid me was fairly invested in the characters and how their story would unfold, much unlike now me and modern KH i very much disagree with the second paragraph tho, the game switching to Sora was not a mistake, the biggest mistake is pacing with the world revisits, which KH1 just did with traverse town and much better i don't dislike your ideas but roxas also merged after his final battle, "You make a good other" still makes me well up a little inside, since it has a lot of emotional build up and i'm biased towards that
I think the problem is that the fans got really defensive over the series bacause of all the sh*t it got before and after KH3's release and I can't really blame them for that. I remember that back then there were lots of critics being as basic as : "KH3 sucks, KH2 is way better." and other stuff like that (there were a few constructive criticism but those were swallowed by the endless sh*tstorm). Also, it's been labelled a bad game by multiple youtubers (despite not being as bad as they claimed it was). Because of that lots of fans don't make the difference between criticism and bashing. And since then, it's nearly impossible to have a constructive discussion about KH3 because there's always this "KH3 sucks vs KH3 is great" war. Also, there are quite a few KH2FM elitists. Once I saw a guy beeing like : "I'm a KH fan, KH2 rules the other games suck.". Like, how can you claim you're a fan of a series while you like 10% of it? XD
As for Transformations, I think it would certainly help the diversity of each Transformation if they just scrapped the broader Forms/categories (Strike Form, Guardian Form, etc.) and just focused on making each Transformation its own separate class, truly distinct from the others. Forms like Counter Shield, Arrowguns and Mirage Staff already have that going, but the DPS forms (Hyper Hammer, Agile Claws, Highwind) are all too samey. Why don't we make the Hammer more of a tanker (with more i-frames in combos), the Agile Claws more of an Antiform-style combo, and the Highwind more Dragoon-themed evasion (such as a greater Quick Run, and manually-inputed jump attacks. I dunno, just something to make the mall stand out from one another.
The keyblade transformations are amazing since keyblades do different things once you transform, but I wish you could transform when you want to instead of having to unlock it through whacking things.
What I did when playing is transform a keyblade then switch to another. Going back to that one later, it will still be transformed. It was good to have one that way if a boss started doing something dangerous Sadly, the game was garbage and that was literally the only neat thing I personally experienced with the game
it's funny how this is similar to Paper Mario TTYD fans, things becoming changed through time that doesn't reach the same progress as a game before that did battle systems to its peak. Then newer fans or just casual fans complain about the people who just want better gameplay saying how they're too stuck on the past. It's a cycle alright. Plus RNG invading on the newest game more and more meh.
I have to disagree with the Keyblade Transformation point- most transformations don't feel similar at all aside from the Formechos due to the weapon and magic changes (if there even is a magic change). To say most feel the same is to say that something like Hyper Hammer and Drill Punch feels the same as Agile Claws and Twin Yo-yos. Saying that "oh you press x and you hit stuff" is also how Drive Forms are as well- with the exception of Wisdom Form because those peashooter shots are only good for staggering bosses. Let's take a look at two Keyblade Transformations that feel vastly different from each other (that I mentioned above)- Hyper Hammer/Drill Punch and Agile Claws/Twin Yo-yos. Hyper Hammer is a moderately pased, hard hitting transformation with a lower DPS but a higher DPH (Damage per hit) and close-range AOE magic (similar to KH2 Fire), with Drill Punch being a mildly faster second stage transformation that shares the low DPS high DPH and close-range AOE magic of Hyper Hammer. Whereas Agile Claws, while sharing the same magic, is a high-speed, high DPS transformation with various multi-hitting attacks and Flowmotion attack changes, with Twin Yo-yos being a similarly fast-pased second stage transformation with even higher manuverability, multi-shot high range magic (in the same vain as Hunny Blasters/Double Arrowguns) and a couple grapple attacks. Alternatively, let's look at a transformation that is similar to all others, but also none of them at the same time- Nano Arms. Nano Arms utilizes attacks from each transformation type- a hammer slam from Hyper Hammer/Boom Hammer, a swinging flagpole from Stormflag, a Yo-yo twirl from Twin Yo-yos, a claw drill (which is the Flowmotion attack for Agile Claws/Blizzard Claws), and a few original attacks as well. TL;DR, the point "Most/All transformations feel the same" is a stupid point that makes almost no sense when not looking at Formechos due to each form having a specific purpose built around the weapon, magic style, and form style (form style being the types of Strike, Element, Blitz, Guardian, and Special (Special encompassing Second Form, Ultimate Form, Light/Dark Forms, and Double Form)).
I want a kh game that has an interesting story that can be told hell even darker take on the series could be interesting. As for gameplay improve upon on what work in other games. Like kh2 combat that gives players agency, different character with their own style of combat with risk & awards when choosing one over sora. Etc
Could you talk about what you think about kh1 and kh2fm if they were to be mixed together and how you think those would work together in tangent with each other
I think you have really good points, however I do want to point out from my perspective that movability and 3D fighting seems to be a major focus with KH3 focusing on the ability to have intense air movement as well as ground movement, combos and magic even reflects this as Sora is never truly 'grounded' like he was in KH2 which focused on heavy movement and deliberate attacking relying on stunlocking rather than fast but strong combos. You even yourself have relied on stun locking into combos to basically drain a enemy of health, the way I imagined it as that Master Form Drive reflects a lot of what Sora feels like in KH3 for me, crowd control, air movement and with it vulnerability since all of Master Form's combinations are air combos and if attacked could be interrupted. Keyblade transformations focus on speed and attacking as many enemies as possible, each form becoming faster and faster rather than heavier which I can see why this is a bit of a problem with players. Heavier means more committed and feels satisfying when you finish a large combo, while lighter floaty combat feels less so because there is no extreme finish to the combo no backpeddling from the enemy that is visible as enemies go flying back from the finish. For myself it makes combat feel extremely chaotic where KH2 felt very straight forward and creating reflexive strategies rewarded us because each enemy could be approached in a direct manner. Sora in KH3 feels especially in critical mode feels like a whirling glass cannon able to dish out tons of damage but can be smacked back easily. but I dont know, I enjoy it and do have many things I agree with when it came to what you had said which would only improve the game.
One thing I really think would have genuinely helped would have been more variation in Magic when transformations happen. Yes there is SOME, like the claws giving you an AoE burst and the blasters/magic launcher changing the shots, but they all more or less do the same thing as each other spell (I.E. fire is going to do the same thing thunder would do and such) I think that, especially with spells like Aero, there was so much missed opportunity. Imagine a more melee focused transformation that made it so that, say, when you case Aero, it does a burst around you, but that burst launches them straight into the air, and it "cancels" the combo to immediately put you into a flow motion jump, as Aero does, for you to follow up, or maybe you could air step to follow up without flow motion or roll cancel it to not get launched upwards with them and follow up with something else from the ground. KH3 is so sad to be because it TRIES to have the fundementals KH2 does but just bogs them all down to their simplest possible form.
Sluna They are very prevalent in everything after Re:Mind, which is all the combat focused part of the game. You can also do New Game plus and play the whole game with the abilities, it’s very fun.
Homestly, I think KH3's problem is enemy AI, unbalanced combat and unproper gravity. I don't really need it to be like KH2FM. But all those things I mentioned are properly programmed into KH2FM so don't be surprised when people prefer that other one. The problem is that KH3 feels like a very lame and fanlike 3D beat em' up. I say this because most combat options are just visual variety.
If we could combine the freedom of combat and creative combos of kh3 that come from flow motion and keyblade switching with the tight combat of kh2 we’d be golden
As someone who's platinumed KH1 and base KH3 and who's nearly platinumed KH2, I think all 3 are great. However, imo KH1 is actually my favourite out of all of them: 1) Combat. I appreciate KH2's and KH3's diverse arsenal of abilities, but for me KH1 has always been the most fun to play. In KH2, magic always felt underpowered up until I used Reflect to kill Roxas, and summons basically made you unstoppable. Drive forms were fun, but the fact that the movement abilities were locked behind 2 hours of grinding was frustrating for someone wondering why the hell they still hadn't gotten Dodge Roll by the time they entered World that never was. In KH3 every ability was just super powerful, I felt like I could 1v13 the entire organisation honestly. But this meant that at least I could use the abilities interchangeably and make the fights more personalized. What I really commend KH3 for doing is getting rid of the infinite healing loop that could be done in the past games with MP and Drive recovery abilities. With all of that said, in KH1 your arsenal was a lot smaller, however everything was always a viable way of dealing with stuff. To beat a boss, you didn't have to know what tool to use, you had to figure out how to best use the few tools you had. The internet guides could only get you so far. 2) Difficulty (I'm going off my Standard runs on each game since I haven't done my critical run of KH2 yet) KH3 was a walk in the park. KH2 was a walk in the park except for Roxas and Data Axel. KH1 was the hardest for me to beat when I first was going through it. Clayton is an evil boss who absolutely demolishes you if you're not careful. Captain Hook can blow your brains out if you don't react fast. Riku 2 I was stuck in for ages because it was so tough to spot the openings in his last phase, same for Ansem 2 but for the entire battle in general. Don't get me started on Phantom bs Sephiroth, those 2 killed me more than every KH2 superboss combined. 3) Music. A bit of a shorter section but an important one nonetheless. Don't Think Twice is for sure my favourite Utada song of the trilogy but Simple and Clean is is a classic. The OG Dearly Beloved is beautiful, but I appreciate how it's complexity has grown along with the complexity of the games. The Gummi Ship theme is iconic for me and hearing anything other than Blast Off in KH2 just felt wrong. I also really like Twilight Town's theme in future games but think Traverse Town's is more memorable. 4) World design. KH2 felt really bland world-wise. The entire game just felt like courtyards for cutscenes to take place and corridors to take you between those cutscenes. Of course there are some outliers like Twilight Town's tram common or the cavern of remembrance, but they're the exceptions. The collectibles don't take much effort to find, the only ones you'll miss are ones you don't have the growth abilities for (still an annoying thing for me) or that you couldn't access during the main story. In KH3, the worlds get big and with very well hidden treasures and lucky emblems to find, but to make the worlds so big a lot of it is made up of just empty space. The Caribbean imo encapsulates this perfectly, it's an amazing world full of secrets that you won't see on your first visit but it's all between a massive sea with basically nothing in it. In KH1, every world is full of things to explore, and there's little empty space between it all. I bet most of us wouldn't have gotten Curaga if we hadn't looked it up. 5) Story. I love the stories for each game but honestly KH1 had the best pacing. In KH3 you get pretty much 0 story between Olympus and San Fransokyo. In KH2 you get pretty much 0 story for all your Disney world first visits. In KH1 the story keeps up all the way through. Obviously it doesn't come up as often between Wonderland and Atlantica but still in most world's you get some sort of important story development that keeps you invested until you find Riku in Neverland and things start to get real. Ofc this is all just my opinion as a casual player, I am in no way as invested in detailed combat like most of everyone else here is. Still, I think it's a view that should be that unpopular. Yeah, it's a simpler game with simpler gameplay, story, graphics, etc., but at the same time it's imo the game with the most thought and care put into it, in a day and age before Disney executives thought of it as anything more than a spin-off videogame with no need for intervention. Plus, this might make some KH2&3 fanboys a bit miffed, so fun times for me :)
KH1 is probably my second favorite game in the series so no offense taken to me at least. I do want to offer my take on a couple of your points though. 1) I pretty much agree with this but I think it's worth mentioning that KH2's spells have really specific uses. Fire is a close range attack, while Blizzard is a projectile and Thunder is a large area of effect attack. Magnet and Reflect also have very obvious strategic benefits too. Fire/Blizzard in KH1 doesn't really seem to have found its niche to me. I never really have a reason to have both on my shortcuts. To lesser degree that's true for Stop/Gravity too. KH3 honestly feels like a step even further back than KH1. The difference between spells is fairly minimal in that game and they are all strong. 2) KH2 doesn't really shine difficulty-wise until critical mode. Final Mix additions like Roxas and Data-Axel only stand out because they were added in later. Critical in 2FM is such a revamp of the game that it completely changes the difficulty in a way that the modes in the other games don't. You level slower, deal more damage, have more abilities, have more AP (both starting and from levels) , and of course you have less health. It ends up feeling like a re-balance of the game into something that is legitimately challenging rather than just cranking up the frustration of the game. Leveling slower also helps you not get overleveled which can be a real problem in these games sometimes. Sora becomes a glass cannon since the game punishes failure much harder but rewards learning its fights with higher damage and gives you more tools to use against it. 3) Sanctuary still makes me want to cry like a baby 15 years later it's a crime that is used so little in the series comparatively. Agreed on just about everything else! KH1 has a lot to love especially in its overall vibe as full game. For me, KH2FM only beats it out for because I enjoy its gameplay so much in spite of its shortcomings.
Tbh I was hoping for kh3 to just be basically 2fm but better. After the free patches/dlc I think it has raised the game up from what it was at base release but it's still a bit below 2fm imho. (I do not yet have the Re:Mind dlc so I can't speak on that part yet) Edit: When I mean "2fm but better" I don't mean it has to be 1 for 1 2fm. Just like some or most of the fundamentals but improved upon and new things added.
"u just want a kh2fm sequep" yes i do, the point of a sequel is to improve on the last game, not to exactly copy it, so yes i indeed would like a kh2fm sequel no but foreal i like kh3 and kh2 and i think if they mix both ideas we could get something amazing and my hopes are up after remind the combos they added where 👌 spicy
I typed all this up assuming the Ornstein and Smough comment was left in the video but it wasn't and I'm going to post this wall anyway. The Ornstein and Smough comment is so fucked because while O+S is a great example of a multi-enemy fight that works, Dark Souls 1 has multi-enemy fights that fucking SUCK because they're not well designed. Being a multi-enemy fight isn't a free ticket to "it just works", if anything it's even harder to get working. O+S is not a clusterfuck. It's certainly frantic but the bulk of the difficulty comes from awareness, especially when you know the Achilles' Heel of the fight. Capra Demon, in the very same game, is probably the worst actual boss fight in the game because it IS a total clusterfuck. The fight is literally a coin toss on whether or not the dogs allow you to get to the stairs or not and instantly becomes the easiest boss if you make it. Iron Golem? Fucking horrible if you don't kill the bomb giant. Four Kings? Clusterfuck. Pinwheel? Would be a clusterfuck if he had an actual health bar. Saying that the Triple Nort fight is fine just because "other game does multi-enemy fights just get gud" is so unfathomably narrow-minded it's insulting and shows an unwillingness or inability to properly analyze the mechanics and design of a boss fight.
Personally, keyblade transformations as a concept is Squeenix's most effective compromise with balancing KH's increase in acrobatics with colorful disney aesthetic(with attraction flow obviously being the lease effective version). I'm not totally sold on it, but KH3 and the mobile games are clearly showing that they don't want to stick to just the base keyblade and need new physical objects to swing around. KH2FM had barely any of that, and was the closest to having Sora age into a breakdancer rather than an amusement park. We don't.....HAVE anyone like that in rpgs. Tidus was made in a time when the hardware just wasn't there, and Noctis lives in a setting too gritty and non-elemental for some of the wackier combos. To me, it represents a niche that nobody has really capitalized on, an identity that's not Disney nor FF, and we're trading it away for.....more disney. That's why I'm kinda hopeful when they say that the "Dark Seeker Saga" is over. We might be moving away from forcing in disney stuff over and over.
Well, for the Disney part, most of the Disney content is Nomura's choice, Disney/Pixar just oversee what Nomura has in mind and give him the thumbs-up.
Dude. The problem is, pretty much every KH game except for KH1 and 2 sucks really badly. Sorry KH2FM offers rewarding, fun, fast , balls-to-the-walls game-play that involves more than one button and doesn't have ridiculous mini-games to get basic abilities. Also, to quote Leffen, "Kingdom Hearts 3 is an actual 3/10 game..." The designers seem more interested in nonsensical situation commands and cringe-worthy attraction flows than actually making rewarding, fun, fast, balls-to-the-walls game-play. Damn right I want all KH games to be like KH2FM because EVERY other game in the series doesn't even come close to what it accomplished in its game-play.
I respect and appreciate your opinions. But I feel you missed the mark by not having a “what the KH3 fans means by saying this” like you did with KH2 fans. I love KH3 and I accept it has many (and I mean many) flaws. But this felt like just an exposè on defending 2fm while dumming down the defenses for later games. I 100% get that’s not the intent. But look at it this way. All your “what the 2fm fan says” comments are extremely well spoken and smart, while all the responding to 2fm ones are crude, rude, and stupidly undetailed to the point they all say the same thing. I just feel it’s not fair to those of us that are critical of 2fm to be placed in the same broad catergory as the trolls who just want to say 2fm sucks. I just feel if you’re gonna have a video like this, you should really be fair to both sides.
You're definitely right, I'll make it a point to have future videos with both viewpoints. What was hard is the "you just want 2fm" nonsense usually stems from that minority of other/kh3 fans that dismiss 2fm immediately. But the arguments I threw together genuinely were things I saw on Twitter being spoken at the time.
I remember when Remind came out, people were making fun of how it costed 30€ on launch. Dude, I wish I had paid 60€ for Remind and 30€ for base KH3. Just Kairi at the end of Remind controls better than Sora in the whole of vanilla KH3
to make things even funnier people who usually complain about price didnt get past half of the limit cut. i was like "ofc it will look expensive as hell if u only played like 1/3 of what u bought"
@@anxjos Not only that, but complaining about paying $30 for a DLC that offers more content (I don't consider 2FM's data org really that good especially now that 3's is out, for reasons I'll elaborate on if you want/reply to this, nor do I consider Absent Silhouettes their own bosses tbh), instead of having to wait several years for a brand new re-release in your country (PS2 was not region-free if I recall, so not just anyone could just play original KH2 final mix), as part of a remastered bundle for $50 or $60 where you have to replay the whole game just to experience everything new is just stupid. ReMind is a steal for being $30, regardless if someone wants to use the "should've been in the game at launch" argument, or the "recycled content" argument.
While I could be wrong, I feel the issue here isn't that this is a case of a split in the KH fanbase between those who rode through the handheld releases up to KH3 while others upon playing KH2 waited for the next console title. Because that second group didn't play BBS or something, when they see a problem with KH3 they compare it the the closest point they have, KH2. But then those who did play the handhelds see a lot of these people pointing out a specific older game as doing it better and think "What makes KH2 so much better as a point of comparison than all theses other games that came out after it?" when that's not what the comparison was supposed to be. How about an example: The KH2 group sees the issues with Situation commands and makes the valid complaint. The handheld group sees people calling out something KH3 isn't doing something a game 5 entries old did, and thinks "Why are you calling out KH2? BBS did the point they state better." In summary, the point isn't KH2 is the best thing since toasted bread, its that 2 is the best point of comparisons for a lot of people and others didn't process that fact.
My thoughts! Situation commands: Kh3 has some real cool ones that deal a decent amount of damage, not too much, not too little. I just wish we could have gotten something less random. Keyblade transformations: I...don’t mind like the first 5 keyblades? After that, you get the same transformations. They could have reused some of the stuff from bbs 🤷🏻♂️. Limp combos: I think I’m somewhere in between. Yes! Kh 2 has some real snappy combos...but the team is getting better. Osaka? I think its osaka? DDD is a nightmare for me to play but in kh3 I feel the improvement.
its funny how since launch ive been told that KH2FM and 3 just cannot be compared because theyre not similiar in the slightest, yet its very obvious that KH3 is built (albeit poorly) upon the foundations of KH2FM, KH2FM isnt a perfect game, it has its flaws, it just so happens that KH2FM is a fun game with a very strong base/foundation, but at times it just felt like they took these super strong foundations, and instead of building a beautiful mansion on top of them, they built a mud hut instead, then with remind DLC they gave the mud hut a beautiful oak door.
Also all the casual fans that shit on people who were weary of the floatiness and lack of speed in combos and all the flaws we saw, they wouldnt care either way. Theyd still enjoy a better game. Do they even have a reason to argue that they know? It seems like twitter crowds just want to be contrarian for the sake of it and especially if its towards those who criticize a product instead of purely enjoying it. I saw it with kh3 and the fans telling us we shouldnt want a better game or good things from 2fm. I saw it with pokemon swsh and everyone trashing on valid criticism there. I saw it with paper mario origami king. These people really dont even have a rational basis of arguement when their whole reason for doing so is because someone doesnt automatically like the new product. Its insane, especially when so many of them wouldnt give 2 shits if it was what fans want or not. Theyd enjoy it anyways. Just like everyone who was defending kh3 on release likely never played critical or crit lv1 either in kh2. Theyd have fun mashing X and triangle regardless just like they did defending BBS and DDD. They're arguing from ignorance for the sake of contrarianism
If you guys liked this video and want to see more like it, let me know what topics you'd be interested in. What I'd like to cover are KH topics that not many people bring up or topics that usually aren't expanded upon or talked about in detail. It doesn't have to necessarily be gameplay related, either.
What mechanics or design choices would you tweak/remove/add if there was a gameplay sequel to KH2FM?
I've yet to see many, if any, people ask this question, and it's one I'm supremely curious about. Could Master Ava be sleeping inside Kairi's heart? I'm hoping KHMoM has an answer for this, but it'd be the easiest way to explain Naminé looking different from Kairi (ex Roxas and Ven in Sora's heart) and could explain some cryptic stuff from secret reports across the games.
@@TenshizakiN008 Namine looks so different because of Ventus, blame Nomura
I liked this video but I don't know what to recommend as I'm not a part of this community in a meaningful way.
I didn't watch the whole thing yet, so forgive me if you touched on this later in the video. I never saw a lot of people complain about the lack of uniqueness among transformations, I more saw people complain about the lack of resource management, in KH2 drive forms were something you felt like you needed to hold onto till the right moment, FM kinda took that away with how abundant drive recoveries were once you could start doing M13 challenges. Still, you felt the need to save it for when your health was low, or needed your MP restored, or wanted an extra boost of strength for a fight you were having trouble with(looking at you first dancer encounter), in KH3, transformations are just thrown at you for free, along with very powerful magic, and ethers are abundant as hell, every single one of those commands is a "why not" rather than an actual decision.
I mean KH2 is the only game i constantly go back to because of how good it is. You don't need to make it exactly the same but you know , don't fix what's not broken ? It's not surprise KH3 became much better to play after some simple abilities were added that made Sora actually fast and satisfying to use. So you don't need to make a 100% copy of KH 2 but i think everyone can like certain mechanics that made such game so good in the first place
It's not even just that there making it different from KH2, there either removing mechanics entirely, not replacing them with anything or with something significantly worse and undercooked
I definitely agree with what you're saying. Honestly there was some stuff in 2fm that I didn't like, like how base Sora's magic felt really slow and and laggy when I'm in a fast paced boss fight that requires good reactions and using magic at the right moment. I really like how KH3 gave Base Sora the abilities to float a little above the ground when casting spells because the magic felt way more mobile and there wasn't so much risk with whipping out a spell or two.
Those new abilities were a godsend. It definitely made my replay of kh3 even better. I can never go back to the old ones.
I have gotten platinum trophy on kh2 twice and I'm still not bored with it. It's so fast paced and amazing.
While I do agree that KH2FM's combat is far Superior, I disagree with "if it's not broke don't fix it" because it completely disregards the fact that you can improve something. Oh the first car was made? Well don't improve it. I mean it runs fine right?
Improvements are also the reason why things don't get stale. Constantly getting the same thing would get pretty boring. If only we had an improvement of KH2FM. I feel like we don't need an exact replica but just something that feels better. Definitely less floaty imo
One of the reasons why I really like reactions commands is because it gives the player a relationship with the enemy in a sense. Being able to dynamically use the enemy’s attacks against itself was really cool. Each enemy had their own animation and way Sora interacted with them.
Honestly without RC commands the enemies in KH3 felt kind of Hollow
Can't say I agree, personally. Then again, I don't like contextual attacks in any action game.
The reason why I don't like them is that they're options you can only use on certain enemies, and when the enemies feel like letting you use them. This means that there's a lot of tools with their own unique utility that you're artificially limited on accessing based on the context of the specific enemies being fought. I much prefer a set of universal tools a player always has access to, so that they could use those tools anytime, more strategically. It's an issue of player agency.
It also doesn't help that certain RC sequences play out longer than others, and thus killing the pace of the fight more or less depending on the RC. Not to mention the parts of the game that forces you to use them either out of efficiency or outright necessity.
I can appreciate your point on how they create a more unique relationship with the player on a per enemy basis, but I'd say that giving each enemy its own unique move set, health pools, and resistances surface in that regard. Having that extra element to the player and enemy relationship isn't worth the trade-off IMO.
To each his own though.
TL;DR: Contextual commands limit player agency compared to universal tools.
@@platinumconquest2365 Hmm you make very good points. Maybe Reaction commands would be better if they were activation by performing a perfect guard(like critical counter in KH3). After performing a perfect guard you'd be able to retaliate with a unique counter like risk dodge but instead it'd be unique to the enemy that you got the perfect guard on like a reaction command. Still unique retaliation attacks but given through timing and player skill.
@@platinumconquest2365 I'm going to give you the layman's reason to liking RCs: Bruv I'm just tryna smack shit with a giant key and look cool doing it and Reaction Commands are the coolest things in the game.
@@sonymicronin Even that solution wouldn't solve my issue with RC's. It arguably gives the player a bit more agency, but the issue of locking away tools behind specific enemies remain.
I'd like to replace them entirely with a dedicated launch/descend function not bound to the same buttons as other important functions (seriously, how does KH still not a Helm Beaker equivalent at this point?).
But if we absolutely had to keep Reaction Commands, I'd rework them to be kind of like enemy souls in Castlevania: AOS. The idea is that enemies have a chance to drop their essence, and Sora can equip those essences to gain an enemy specific reaction command. You could even equip multiple essences to use depending on Sora's state. A land command and an air command for example, maybe more.
TL;DR: Either give me a High Time/Helm Breaker button or make reaction commands equipable.
"you just want games to be sequels to 2FM"
yeah i actually would want sequals to games to reiterate and actually build on what made the previous games great
It's sad, really. KH2 was a tremendous leap in quality from KH1, improving in every aspect I'd say, easy, and... for as big a leap as it was, it's like the games after attempted to plunge lower and lower.
@@Peasham The only major downgrade to me was puzzles in the environment and exploration. Combat is snappy and fluid and you have all of your choices in front of you instead of like 33% chance for certain finishers
@@Peasham really? I thought 3 was as good as 2, I prefer 2, but not by much
@@kayaplaaya9875 I initially didn't like 3 but with the all the free patches/dlc, I still haven't gotten Re:Mind, it made the combat a lot more fun for me. It's close to 2fm levels but not entirely there yet imo.
@@kevin13cabello yeah, overall 2fm has funner combat, but I love the options kh3 gives you
I mean, 2FM had
*Weighty combat with snappy movement
*An ability system that expanded player choice and gives immense depth
*Drive forms were universal and expanded the importance of smart keyblade decisions for forms.
* An actual balance of Final Fantasy and Disney
it also had
*no level design to speak of at all
*massive chunks of filler in the story between the opening, the battle of 1000 heartless, and the end
*a massive grind to get movement abilities which are mostly useless unless you want to collect puzzle pieces (has anyone ever?) or complete the optional dungeon (this is actually worth it)
*incredibly bullshit boss designs that mostly just involve getting lucky
*unbalanced spells like magnet and reflect
I love KH2FM, but I'm tired of people saying it's the perfect sequel when in pretty much every way other then the combat it's a step back from KH1
@@VivBrodock Oh yeah, the level design is on par with walking through Elementary school hallways with little or nothing to do... But I wouldn't say that everything between the opening and the 1K heartless battle is exactly filler. I mean, you've got Roxas's story, getting your new clothes, going to hallow bastion for the first time, being drip fed small things about the Organization, and occasional Twilight town visits.
Also, I might've been that person that got all the puzzle pieces. I wouldn't say any of the bosses are really bullshit either since it is very much possible to go through the entire game without dying once if you're super informed... But yes, I do wish more areas were designed like the Optional Caverns.
@@VivBrodock no one said it's perfect. but why scrap the things that worked about the game, just because other aspects were less than stellar? at no point did this person say it was perfect, he just listed aspects of the game that were really good. why would that get you into a tiff? such an odd response. also, i'm sure quite a few people have collected puzzle pieces to acquire the incredibly useful executive ring and grand ribbon. but seeing you say that 2fm had "incredibly bullshit boss designs that mostly just involve getting lucky", i can only assume that you prefer games where you just get to mash x and then sit back and watch a cutscene.
This goes back to the entire "dont criticize product, just be excited and consume next product" shit that ABSOLUTELY plagued stuff like Pokémon Sword/Shield & TLOU2 defenders. As videogames become more casual and their productions more and more costly due to ever increasing graphical demands by said casual audience, less and less time is soent in development to refine, update and satisfy mechanical and design needs of the game. Twitter is only able to geberalize subjects due to the 280character limitation, therefore you can't broach a subject like you would in a forum or imageboard. Communities turn these cases of extremes where the majority don't want to see complaints, want to attach thwir personalities to a project or company and any one that points flaws is whatever buzzword van be thrown at them, the impact is never made and more and more games are developed as a product over being a videogame. Everything is designed to be safe, unoriginal and basic, nothing more.
I've seen way more people get triggered by people defending TLOU2 as opposed to getting triggered for people complaining about it.
Then again, most of the complaints I've seen are, like, lies, so I guess that's not too surprising.
I'm actually done with the Pokemon series and community after the fiasco that was Sword and Shield and the ravenous fans.
@@sonymicronin I may be a minority but people do exist that enjoy swsh and still admit it was a shit show.
Peasham yea it's mainly the people who really don't want others to like the game, like I've seen some people unironically act like it's one of the worst games ever made and enjoying it makes you a bad person, all the discussion around that game is some of the most vitriolic shit I've seen in gaming, comparing it to the way people criticize KH3 seems more like an insult than anything else
I've seen way more haters complaining about tlou/pokemon fans, than fans complaining about the extremely toxic dickheads
Every copy of KH2FM is personalized
I don't understand this joke can someone help me please.
@@boxcar9407 I'm guessing creepypasta related so I wouldn't go down that hill.
Kh2 1995 demo
@@boxcar9407 it's a mario 64 alternate reality game/creepypasta mix that's where it's from and search up mario 64 iceberg to learn more about this basically tldr is that this is a creepy meme about mario 64 having subtle differences from ai and etc
The xion apparition
Kh game with 2FM combat and 1FM level design would be amazing
definitely this. i appreciate the fixes made to 3s combat with remind but every kh game after 1 has not even compared in terms of platforming and level design to the original game.
Man, even though I appreciate the spirit behind 1FM level design, I find that navigating those worlds are not all that enjoyable. It's difficult to tell where each door or passage way is going to lead you to. Like the Ship in Neverland, or the Caves in Atlantica. The constant back and forth of Deep Jungle. In 2FM is very easy to tell what is going to lead you where, because often times, you actually get to see it beforehand. I think that Cavern of Remembrance brought some of that spirit back and it would've been nice to see more of that. As for KH3, I think that they wanted each world to feel more like a playground, just simple fun.
@@someguy5319 Agreed and it’s a real shame
not the hollow bastion stress again :(...
@@GuilhermeTB1 Well, luckily KH2 onwards had a map as well as the Information bar to tell you where to go next, so a game with KH1's level design like KH3 shouldn't have that problem. Also more movement options even though I personally don't have a problem with the movement in KH1 myself.
On Situation Commands specifically, I feel like they’d be fine if they just got rid of RNG entirely. Like, yeah I did this cool Fire centric combo, give me my Fire Grand Magic as a reward. I don’t mind building a meter instead of choosing a menu option.
I used to think like this too.
“KH3 is perfect you just hate it cause it’s not 2fm”
But having played KH3 more, especially on critical. It has genuine problems that Need to be addressed in the future. Is it still fun? Yes. But is it as refined as 2fm? No.
Though the Re:Mind superbosses give me hope that Osaka has learned.
I hope that kh4 will have everything we liked with kh2 and 3. I want the combat to be fast and weighty at least.
As a fan of the series since the first game in the series. Its not even about wanting every game to play like KH2. Its the simple fact that KH2 is most balanced game in series. Also the fact that KH2 gave us a game, that casual & hardcore players both enjoyed. And now it's gotten to point that whenever you have an issue with the gameplay in the
series it automatically goes to "YOU JUST WANT IT TO PLAY LIKE KH2" even when explaining things like floatyness and hit stun issues in most games post KH2 honestly it's just tiering afterwhile.
Just hope that one day people can understand that what KH2 did so well is allow people both ends of the spectrum to enjoy the game.
KH2FM yeah, KH2 Vanilla, fuck no.
Agreed man, I love all kh games . It just happens to be kh2 is pretty balanced in every aspect but it is not the only fun to the whole series
It's more than just balancing, but yeah. Everyone ik of that dislikes kh3 has legitimate reasons for it and i'm always seeing new ones that make sense, despite not having that problem myself.
The people not even trying to have a conversation about it and just poking fun are the stereotypical consumerist drones. They're just very vocal in this community. If it relates to their beloved, likely nostalgia-love tied company, the company and it's product/service can do no wrong and therefore you are wrong. It's tribal in nature, as many other things going on in the world are right now
KH2 isn't the most balanced game in the series, that spot is for KH1.
I'm not even talking about cheesing. Like, you receive Trinity limit so early in the game that mob fights turn into a joke (even against large enemies, not counting bosses) and Sora receive so many combo modifiers that your reach a point where you don't even need to use most of your weapons, because base Sora is more than enough to handle everything.
Meanwhile, people like me, who prefer the KH1 style, are suffering
*Cries*
Me too, one of the problems in newest kh changes actions for cinematics that make you feel youre doing something
KH1 is the only action rpg in this series and that's sad tbh
@@donaldtrump2728 KH1 is an rpg with action elements, and 2 and 3, action games with rpg elements. At least, that's the way I see it
It kinda sucks that there'll probably never be another game like it. Parrying attacks with well timed strikes felt great.
@@elivcdxv1852 The parry thing "kinda" came back with the perfect guard ability included in Critical Mode for KH3... Not even close on satisfaction levels tho lol. Especially parrying Riku-Ansem felt amazing when you figured out his patterns
As a 2FM fan who has not seen this video yet, I can only say one thing. "Yeah, that's fair."
What the 2FM fan is REALLY trying to say:
"God I just want to make Larxene the mother of my children."
Nah.
Marluxia.
Nah sephiroth (jk no homo)
She is the only non jailbait option before aqua existed
I feel attacked, I want her to sit on my face
i want her to punt me across the room
I want utility in options again. Summons, limits, drives and magic all had different uses and modifiers on eachother. 3 was so stale in most everything being just damage only
Stil my biggest gripe about KH3 combat to this day. KH3 Remind only fixed one aspect which was base Sora's physical combos, which while great still makes the combat pale in comparison to KH2FM's versatility and variety. KH3 is like a pocket knife while KH2FM is like a multi tool.
I think they should have kept formchanges and summons (and maybe grand magic, or get the RNG out of the system) as part of a drive bar, and do not give drive recovery. Too often the answer to combat is "spam the overpowered summon, and refresh with ethers", especially in Critical Mode.
@@vadandrumist1670 Drive Recoveries are fine, they were always Menu Only in 2, and its not like they made Tents battle usable, even if the mental image is wonderful
Ignoring the utility of some mechanics in KH3 is the same as saying "only summons are different in KH2, because the rest just damage enemies", which is objectively false.
Everything has a different utility in KH3, the problem is that you can't notice that in lower difficulties because doesn't matter what you use, it will always work (pretty much like in every other KH game).
The same happens in KH2, if you play in Proud or below you will never need to use other mechanic than base Sora combat, RC, Cure, Thunder and Reflect.
@@Mario_KHX I played 3 crit and beat yozora. I know water has I frames on cast and aero gathers enemies. But you really cant deny that every single option in kh3 is just damage, nothing really separates shotlocks from summons or attraction flow. Or even form changes for that matter. They're all just damage. Agile claws doesnt have any different utility from storm lance or buster hammer or really any form that isnt counter shield. They mostly all do the same thing
I actually liked re:chain, tbh.
The issue about the topic of "wanting every game to be like kh2" is that it's not correct. That's not what people are saying, people are saying that some games aren't as balanced as KH2, and that's the issue. I'm not gonna write a whole ESSAY on why I don't like Birth by Sleep and KH3 in this comment section, but I ABSOLUTELY could. It's simply comes down to crucial gameplay mechanics not being as refined as the other titles in the series.
EDIT:
wanted to edit my comment to say that, I've played KH3 and KH2fm back to back lately, and I can definitely see the appeal of people who might like KH3 much more, I believe I had some heavy tunnel vision, KH3 isn't some like, horribly flawed game, and I've had issues in KH2fm that persist in KH3 or, issues only in KH2fm that aren't in 3 that were improved upon. I felt as though I came off pretty poorly.
For those who might really just, hate KH3 try and clear your mind before goin' into it, cuz I def had some bias I didn't address.
That said, I still think I like KH2FM more for combat.
Well balance and fluidity, casuals don't often consider the ramifications of something as simple as a "turn around" animation fucking up your movement in an action game or why combos/attacks can't be sluggish and too long.
Turn around meaning simply turning the character around, say you're playing DMC and you need to turn around fast to hit an enemy, in those games turning around happens instantly but in a game like FFXV they have a whole slow animation for turning around and it breaks flow and movement, it looks smooth but the actual feeling of it is very sluggish. Something as simple as jumping feeling as clunky or choppy as it was in BBS destroys flow and movement.
you don't like KH3 because it's not 2FM, you don't have to lie lol
@@arosbastion7052 Ah, the age old. "Your critique isn't actually valid you're telling a lie" Defense. Classy. Some of us actually liked KH3 but wanted some of Kh2FM's elements in KH3. You know like, precise controls, balanced options, tight revenge value management, combo control, combo mods etc. It's not like we like the individual elements and were sad about specific things, no it's because it isn't numbered the same. Clearly. Almost like, some of us enjoyed aspects of one game, and not another. You know, different opinions and tastes for different people. What a wild thing I know. People like different things. *GASP*
Clone Loli yup animations are way more fluid looking, but more sluggish feeling. Its the drawback to more realism. I like both, i dont really mind, Final fantasy feeling like that, cause i play it more for the story. Also i Hate to be that guy,(not really) but if these games were on PC it would be a-lot smoother feeling.
@@BorkMemester Honestly fair. There's a lot of things we can level at 2fm as issues, and not running smooth would be one of them.
Havent watched the vid yet, but as a kh2fm fan, I wouldn't mind different gameplay changes as long as the mechanics are balanced and the story was at least better.
I wish the story existed.
I honestly feel bad for everybody that paid money for KH3. That story was so God awful I couldn't even believe it when I finished the game.
Bevvvy I loved it. And I felt I had my money’s worth. 🤷♂️
@@bevvvy1374 I actually liked it. It just felt odd sometimes but it tried to fix the mess DDD created.
Idk every kingdom hearts game being a Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix & Knuckles Featuring Dante from the "Devil May Cry" series sequel sounds good to me.
It's not about wanting every post-KH2 game to be a sequel to KH2 (even though they are, by definition), it's about none of them even attempting to be as good if not better than KH2. Not even FM, base, I'd argue.
I don't think it's entitled to expect a sequel to be better than the game before it, I'd even settle for it being just as good, if not just a bit worse. But nah, it's entitled to expect games to be okay nowadays.
To be fair tough after KH2 this isn't the same team so not the same Level of abilities, and to be honnest while not being as good as KH2FM Team Osaka did a massive improvment on the gameplay side with KH3 over BBS and DDD (which were honnestly kind of garbage gameplay wise) and even more with ReMind and for me this prove that at least they care and they are trying, the KH3's Data Org and Yozora were the most fun fights I did in a KH games since my LV1 Run of KH2FM and I praise them for that and I really hope they will continue to improve in that direction.
@@nesoukkefka1741 KH2 isn't the same team... as compared to what?
To be completely honest, improving upon BBS and DDD isn't an achievement, it's LESS than the bare minimum one should put into any action game. It's okay to enjoy their combat, or any KH game's combat, but I don't think they stand up to scrutiny.
As for proving that they were trying with ReMind, the only thing it proved to me is that Nomura cares more about Versus 13 than Kingdom Hearts. And he can care about it all the wants, mind you, but from most accounts it's his fault that Versus 13 never got made, and I find it despicable that you have to fund the project he ruined KH3 for if you want to have any fun with KH3. Not only is it largely stuff that should've been in the base game (as in, scenes in the base game don't make sense on PURPOSE so they can be finished in ReMind), but then I have to deal with Nomura's baby rage, no, just no. No amount of okay boss design is worth that.
@@Peasham KH2 is handle by Square's Tokyo Team and BBS, DDD and KH3 are handle by Osaka's team, they aren't the same developper.
To be perfectly honnest I don't care at all for KH's story, plot wise BBS was disappointing and DDD was straight up garbage, Nomura can do all the bullshit he want at this point it won't change anything, KH's story is a complete mess since a long time and anybody who deny it is just delusionnal, so I don't mind him picking up his lost ideas for Versus XIII in KH at that point plot-wise the KH series is fucked so whatever they pull in it won't change anything.
The boss design for Datas and Yozora was great, and while I do agree this DLC is way too expensive, and the story part sucks, but gameplay wise it was enjoyable and free patch they did to improve Sora's base combos was more than welcome.
@@nesoukkefka1741 I mean, I'll be honest, I don't care. Every sequel to Devil May Cry 3 was handled by a different dev team, and yet every single one, even including the one handled by a completely different company, was presentable. Never was there a drop in quality as gigantic as in Kingdom Hearts. Other people handling the sequels simply put is not an excuse. If they weren't fit for the job, others should've developed the sequels.
Oh, it is an absolute fucking mess, I mostly just gave a damn about the characters. Funnily enough, it's kinda like DMC, the plots are more often than not trash, but it's the characters that make them shine. I had zero expectations for the plot, but shit, I thought the character would interact with each other. Like, at all. Not only was the setup perfect for fun interactions, it literally makes zero sense that some characters didn't interact with each other. I figured he'd drop the ball on the plot, he's been doing that shit since BBS onwards, but jesus christ, Riku doesn't say a single word to Kairi or vice versa. That's some next level shit if ya ask me, and that's why I don't even wanna think of supporting Versus 13, it's clear he cared more about putting that in the game as opposed to not only the plot of KH3, but the characters of KH3. I wouldn't have bought KH3 had I known it'd go to funding Versus 13, and I'm not about to pay 30 bucks for okay superbosses when regular enemies back in KH2 were designed just as well.
@@Peasham Honestly Limit cut and Secret episode have the best gameplay content in kh history. So calling them merely ok or just as a way to promote versus XIII isnt really fair.
KH2FM is to KH3RM as Whole Grain Cereal is to Fruit Loops.
One offers more substance and nutrition as opposed to color or sugary flavor, but in the end it’s still just a bowl of cereal.
I don’t know, don’t ask why. It came in my head at 2 am I’m tired, ok thanks, great video BB. 👏
Imma use this analogy, I’ll be sure to credit you
@@jazaelperez5213 KH2 combat is like a Multi tool while KH3 is like a pocket knife. KH3 looks sharp and cool but it's combat variety and versatility is narrow. KH2FM'S combat gives you multiple tools at your disposal and each tool has their own merit and distinct use.
13:00 I think maybe something that's missing here is that a lot of the wider KH fanbase aren't huge fans of action games like DMC or competitive games with complex inputs in general, and see the genre almost as incidental relative to the story or characters or plot that they play it for.
Well it's not even about complex inputs or difficulty in action games, it's literally just how satisfying it is to hit stuff in a game about hitting stuff.
my general comment on folks who like kh3 over kh2, who like style and WOW factor over substance, is: I'm glad you're having fun. perhaps you would also enjoy this nice Kaleidoscope
im not gonna apologize for wanting a sequel in the footsteps of the best action game made
Well said.
-
I recently played through KH2FM on critical mode for the first time, and wow. It was one of the best and most memorable gaming experiences I’ve ever had. Learning enemy and boss AI / moves, employing different strategies, utilizing my toolset to the fullest without it ruining the game or trivializing the difficulty.
-
It was just.. so refreshing. -not just for a KH game, but as a game in general as well.
-
And I think I should clarify to any naysayers that this isn’t coming from a place of biased nostalgia; I actually played the Osaka games way before I did KH2. Its only in retrospect that I’ve grown to vastly appreciate and enjoy KH2FM’s rich mechanical depth and competency.
-
That said, I encourage Osaka team to push themselves. Despite my many grievances with KH3, I believe they could very well deliver a product just as good as 2FM if they put their heads together and set out to understand why KH2FM is regarded so highly from an objective mechanical / design perspective.
I find the accusation “all KH2FM fans just want every KH to be a clone of 2FM” hilariously reminiscent of “All TTYD fans want every PM to be a clone of TYD.”
-
..like, no. lol, that’s a very shallow accusation / mindset to have. Yes I’m sure those kind of fans do exist, but nah don’t put words in our mouth. We prefer KH2FM and TTYD over the subsequent games because despite how old they are (around 15 years) they manage to be more mechanically deep / competent in comparison to the products being made now.
-
Having a KH game where Sora’s block just doesn’t work sometimes is a problem. having a PM game where tens of thousands of coins are thrown at you, thus squandering your incentive to battle is a problem. Having a KH game where enemies just fall out of combos because they’re too floaty is a problem. Having a PM without all the things that gave the series its unique identity is a problem.
-
Nitpicking is one thing, but fairly criticizing a game’s objective design flaws is another. There are still elements to enjoy in any game sure, but if your response to the criticism is simply “get used to it / accept and enjoy it for what it is without criticizing it,” well.. that’s just complacency.
Lance Beryl I don’t mind the new paper Mario games I think the paper Mario fanbase only wants battles to have a meaning with lvls but they don’t necessarily want a clone of ttyd
Asian
yeah. I still need to play origami king to make a fair assessment.
-
Obviously the ditching of more robust stories and mechanics, apparent balancing issues, and a lack of legitimately original races / characters also are some of the complaints I and many others have about the recent direction.
-
The new games may still be enjoyable in their own sort of way, but yeah.. it’s disappointing to know where the series could be, how much farther it could push beyond, yet it likely never will.
-
We have a slew of indies upcoming tho, so that original spirit may continue to live on somewhere I guess..
Lance Beryl yeah I heard there is a game called bug fables that resembles the good old paper Mario series back in its glory days haven’t played it yet though
Marshal Wagner I agree with that
3:40 I consider 2FM the best game ever made, and want to see it *exceeded.* Not repeated.
So far I've been disappointed. :)
I haven't found another game that offers a similar amount of useful variety.
I haven't found another game that offers potential for total mastery through the existence of revenge value, which allows the player to manipulate boss behavior almost completely in many fights given sufficient knowledge and skill.
I haven't found another game that feels that fast and snappy in its combat (though I will say that YS 8 feels pretty good).
I just realized, 2FM fans have the EXACT same complaints on certain mechanics they wanted as DMC fans who played DMC 4 religiously wanted for DMC 5. KH2 fans will complain about the lack of snappy combos in KH3, as well as the lack of Drive forms, meaningful expression, etc. With DMC fans, they complain about the lack of inertia, no Royal Guard flying, no Turbo mode, and other stuff from DMC 4 that weren't in DMC 5.
I'd complain more that the story's just DMC3 for Nero and that they hid all the unlockables behind a paywall, but that's just me
Honestly I'd take keyblades transformations over drive forms but that's my opinion
@@lucapeyrefitte6899 Would be dope if we could somehow have both. Though that's just wishful thinking and will never happen oof.
Lax C. I feel like we do, since it seems like a logical development for Sora, each transformation has red, blue or yellow and I think green? and then white for the ultimate keyblade
@@Peasham Wait, which unlockables? I'm actually curious about this since besides the Devil Breakers and the second Cavalier I wasn't aware of anything else being paid content (In the context of actual money rather than Red Orbs, anyways.)
Aside from that question, still hoping we get a 5SE with more options and a randomish BP option like DMC3 had.
Short conclusion : Fanboys can't stand criticism even if it's constructive criticism.
They take criticism as attacks on them personally. Some people align themselves too much with these games to where it's a borderline obsession.
@@sonymicronin Yeah honnestly I think it's sad cause at the end of the day no games is perfect there is always some flaws, most people criticing the game and comparing with KH2FM just want the games to be as good or even better than that, which I think is good.
@@nesoukkefka1741 Yeah. We just want an evolution and improvement over KH2FM, not a carbon copy. For many of us KH3 wasn't even bad, it was good but just dissapointing that it wasn't better than KH2FM. In fact, as someone who adores KH2FM and places it in my top 3 games of all time, even I can state some legitimate criticism against it. For example I can say for sure that KH1 and KH3 did world design and interaction and exploration leagues better than KH2. Also I think the Graphics of KH3 are phenomenal, a good evolution of KH2 graphics. It just a shame that combat was worse imo, and for me and others who mainly play and enjoy KH for it's combat that was a huge disappointment.
Well it is also vice versa to be honest. I have seen enough examples that the person who criticize things go completely hyporite when the other guy gives criticism to something else.
People like to believe that someone who carefully construct criticism and state facts are very collected people, but if someone else does the same for his or hers favorite media, like 70% of the time they will deny it and call you a liar.
So it is just like an endless circle without an end, you can blame the fanboys, but I believe that everyone is a little hypocrite, myself included.
Imagine a remake of 358/2 but with the level design of KH1FM the gameplay of KH2FM and the technical developments of KH3
There aren't many technical developments in 3. The coding and the enemy AI is better in 1 and 2 and they use a more advanced technic for enemies.
2fm just feel so smooth, i like kh3 but playing kh2 i just fell like well lubricated gears that fits perfectly, everything just works
Per my profile pic it's obvious I love 2FM and I've also done a few speedruns of varying sorts on it. I've played it many times and adore the game. That said, it disheartened me that you really work for the 2FM arguments and give none to the KH3 arguments. For example, I thought of plenty of much more reasonable counter arguments and to me that shows you're not showing the strongest arguments you've seen or can imagine (as shown in the 2nd slide) but just whatever makes KH3 fans look dismissive and that sucks.
There are more reasonable counterarguments, but the discussion isn't really a "who is right?" or "who has the better argument?", it's a discussion about how 2FM fans will bring up something they dislike about KH3, and the response by a large chunk of fans is "you just want 2FM" instead of providing an actual counterargument.
Apologies in advance if it felt like I was generalizing all KH3 fans, cause that wasn't the intention.
@@Bl00dyBizkitz I get that to an extent, maybe I'd just like to see you gabbing with someone you respect who values KH3 more than you (not that you cant have your own opinion!). I think itd make an interesting dialogue as opposed to you pulling at the low hanging fruit. Cause yeah, to be totally clear I 100% agree with you that "we want another 2FM!" is not what 2FM fans are saying and I should know, I'm a huge fan myself!
I felt your comment
@@mituskey thanks! I'm glad other folks could see my point. :)
Can you give a few examples of those "much more reasonable counter arguments"?
I've played through KH2 quite a few times. I somewhat recently finished the main story and all non-2fm bosses on crit level 1. One of the things that I enjoyed the most about that particular playthrough was how every fight felt like a puzzle as well as a test of skill. The game gives you so many tools to work with that it makes it a lot of fun to try out different abilities, builds, summons, items, etc, to see just what works well against each encounter.
Of course it wasn't all fun. The first part of the game is pretty brutal since you don't actually have any tools to work with, and there are a couple of other fights after that which are pretty terrible on crit level 1 (I'm looking at you Genie Jafar, The Experiment Groundshaker, and Final Xemnas, the last of whom still has broken reaction commands)
You'll notice that with exception for Final Xemnas, those all restrict your options in some way, Genie Jafar is Genie Jafar and The Jankass Carpet Combat, Groundshaker is Lion Sora... and then ignores all the cool stuff Lion Sora can do, unlike Scar, The Experiment is pretty much The Example of a boss thats horribly dependent on its RC to fight due to becoming invulnerable, I don't count the Beast's Castle bosses because those're just HP Gates on the "adds" phase rather then chasing down a angry laser head to make the boss vulnerable again
Exactly. The only thing that kh3 did good was that you get some movement abilities at the beginning of the game.
Personally, KH3 actually did copy and/or build upon KH2FM in certain respects.
They both have the same MP system. They both have combo modifiers, but KH3 moved them to circle, so you could dodge or block mid-combo. In fact, for all their flaws, free combo cancels is something that all of the Osaka Team games did better than KH2FM-KH3 was just the first one to have snappier attacks with proper hitstun as well.
Aside from combo cancels, Revenge is one of the most improved aspects from KH2FM to KH3. Basically now, enemies give reactable tells on their Revenge Attacks, which keeps all of the beneficial properties of a Revenge System, but makes it more fair to the player. In fact, I was particularly unhappy about the old way, because DMC3 showed how to do it right with the Vergil boss fights.
Another thing I want to address is Formchanges. You see, I liked them because none of them had the severe defensive shortcomings that some KH2FM’s Drive Forms had, and many of KH3’s Forms felt sufficiently unique. Shields were good for blocking & ultra powerful reprisals, Blitz Form was good for having dodge attacks, hammers were good for AOE & hitstun, Element Form was good for ranged magic attacks a la Wisdom Form, and Mirage Staff had that unique clone attack mechanic. Moreover, it’s often been erroneously claimed that KH3 Forms don’t have a cost, and this is largely untrue. Rather, risk IS the cost of being able to enter a Form, since in most scenarios, attacking enemies leaves Sora open to being attacked himself. Moreover, since the Situation meter drops if Sora remains passive, it encourages players to build momentum and not just try to run away from enemies.
Well said. The simple fact that KH3 has only been out for a single year (almost two) while 2 and 2FM have been out for 14 years respectively, shows that there is simply not enough time just yet to fully explore KH3's combat. Even 2FM didn't build up the reputation and recognition of its insanely intricate combat until 2013-2014 with 2.5 ReMIX on the PS3! I personally love KH3 especially with 1.09 which made it top KH2 for me instantly. Combo cancelling makes a lot of the unwanted risk go away with proper use, plus Double Form is basically every single KH3 drive in one, except Wrathful Flurry! (which I think is the shield's reprisal.) Fast, blitzy combos of the speed/blitz form, heavy hitting finishers of the power form, AMAZING range, plus 360 block, its own launcher and ground crusher, and some of the coolest combos in the entire series. Yeah KH3 doesn't have Explosion, Horizontal Slash or Dodge Slash, but it is honestly better than KH2 at this point in my opinion, Data Org is objectively better, and all in all I just feel like people are sometimes just looking for ways to keep 2FM on a pedestal. Maybe for some KH3RM doesn't evoke the same feel of 2FM. Thats fine. But its the fact that its successes are just not acknowledged that widely in contrast. Trueblade Seeker does some of the most insane shit with KH3's combat while still no damaging bosses, and thats just crazy to me. Not to mention on your point of forms, the fact that you can't block at all in a Drive in 2/2FM is just ridiculous lol.
@@zerosolis6664 The point about Drive Forms is especially important, because you have to pay a high fixed cost to enter a form, so you can’t just spend a little bit of meter and there’s no real parity between cost and benefit with respect to form time.
On of KH2’s biggest flaws was the fact that its difficulty could mostly only seem to jump between extremes. And I think this issue with the forms is a leading contributor. If enemies aren’t powerful and relentless enough, then camping with Cure magic and/or spamming Magnet Burst & entering forms to heal trivialized any damage they dealt. On the other hand, if they were fast & powerful enough, then you’d be floundering around trying to deal with Sora’s subpar defensive options and high costs for entering forms.
It would’ve been better if forms and summons alike just directly used Drive Gauges over time like a Devil Trigger. Additionally, a couple of the forms should’ve had better defensive prowess. Conversely, entering a form should not have healed Sora, and instead, a very slow HP regen over time would’ve been great, because it would’ve made an interesting trade off- that is, attack in a form but have less form time for HP regen or attack less for more HP restoration.
Oh shut up. Revenge on mobs is nuts. I'm comboing that larxene nobody and he just starts taking no damage and does the lightning attack messing me up. It makes you lose time.
Coming from a fan since kh 1... you're not wrong 🤣
At 13:20, did the patch that he mentioned come out before or after the Xbox version? I played the Xbox version at launch and didn't notice anything weird about the combos, but I am not generally an action game guy so I probably wouldn't notice either way.
I think both 2fm and 3rm are amazing games and my absolute favorites in the series. I can play them both many times over and not get bored. To me both have things the other does better.
Well said.
Think my experience is different from interactions with the community. It's not the "this issue could be better with [2FM feature]" that bothers me, it's responses on the level of "this issue is not like [2FM feature] IDK how people like this". Which IMO seems like a very binary statement (caused again, by the 240 character sound bytes mentioned).
And to that, ofc I'll "defend" a game because it's not that black and white. e.g. floaty combat: yes, I can see how this can bother people who want to play at a high level. No, I don't think it, by itself, ruins a game. Me playing through BBS's 3 campaigns twice and still having a good time clearly show there's something there that appeals to me and others out there. And TBH, it wouldn't be the very first thing I'd fix in BBS either (enemy hitstun would. floatiness is maybe top 5).
Yeah, the other half of the extreme exists as well and it's equally as annoying. Probably even more so for fans who publicly enjoy 2FM's game design because they get lumped into the whole dumb thing.
@@Bl00dyBizkitz yeah, that's definitely a big crux of it. Of course I love many features in KH2. But I'd rather not have every discussion on what are generally not gamebreaking issues I have in a game turn into a turf war.
Think that's a big thing of it. Short of CoM's card battle system and 358's level design (IMO), there aren't that many game mechanics in KH that I feel "break" a game for me. But it seems any praise or criticism of a feature reflects on the entire game in the lens of some people. Which just isn't true, obviously. It's not like Anlantica's sheer existence means everything in KH 1/2 are on the same level as it.
Bbs sucks. It's so broken. You played bbs on beginner? It has horrible bosses and block doesn't even work. And it feels uncomfortable
KH2FM is so good, the amount of times I've seen people get angry over it is astounding 😂
Kh2fm is one of the greatest games ever made. It's in my personal top 10 games of all time. Therefore I want more KH games to be like 2fm Lel.
Tbh, I love BB's youtube community. Everybody gather together and share their own opinion. This is what I call healthy community lol.
Just asking, will this video be similar to the "Cuz you're a speedruner" 3 years ago?
If you haven't watched it yet, yeah it's pretty much the same thing but he elaborates on stuff more
Yeah more of a enhaced version of that and the kh fandom video
I un-ironically want KH every game to be like 2FM(at least combat wise) or I guess an evolution of it.
The kh3 base combos even after patch in my opinion still weren’t satisfying because there wasn’t any form of variety between air and ground combat
Exactly there wasn't a lot of variety while Kh2 had many abilities that changed your combos and used many different buttons rather than just X to change how the combo works
@@_NeonFlame_ I mean, KH2 only had horizontal slash/upper slash and finishing leap that you just pressed square to use, KH3 still has rising spiral and groundbreaker that you use with circle, and personally I enjoy using them way more after the patch, especially in double form where it actually has its own launcher and ground crusher. I do agree though with OP, we didn't like get a new finisher just for the air. Last Charge could've been the new ground finisher (ala Explosion) and we could have gotten something like a mini Ars attack (similar to the stuff Terra uses for example in BBS and as Terra-Xehanort being a boss) for an air finisher.
I think tying transformations to keyblades was probably a bad idea. It's a cool idea in concept that is meaningfully different than Drive forms since it's tied to your loadout and not the other way around, but it's difficult to provide meaningful distinctions between them. The game obviously has to give you more than 4-5 keyblades so you end up with certain ones just being redundant because it can be very difficult to find ways to shake-up gameplay. Working on my own games I sometimes find myself stretching my ideas thin by putting how cool a concept/feature would would be before the core of the gameplay and how feasibly I can actually change it up. KH3's transformations don't necessarily need to modify things the same as 2's do(even though they share a significant amount of systems like abilities), but there's only so many ways you can modify the base gameplay in a balanced way.
I think 2(FM) was already starting to push it with Master and Final form but they're just meaningfully different enough to be okay. They also piled on attributes that make each form unique like their movement abilities, extra abilities in general, and unique properties like Limit's healing and magic replacement. Some of that is there in 3 but them being tied to Keyblades makes them replaceable. You're not really encouraged to learn what makes these forms unique and they're not distinct enough to force you to. And since they can be swapped you don't really strategize around them the way you do when you equip specific keyblades to drive forms in KH2 or spend enough time with them to think about a specific one as part of your arsenal. It leads to them feeling less like a loadout you have prepared for specific situations and more like super move you can do with one of your weapons. In which case you're just going to pick the coolest one or settle for the one on the best keyblade stat-wise you have. I'd also argue that there's enough keyblades to make it difficult to really keep track of the individual differences in your head unless you're committed to learning the game beyond what it really asks of you, except between the 5 or so broader categories of forms.
I also don't feel like transformations and shotlocks really carry the same weight that abilities on keyblades did in 2. There was some trade-off to using the very best weapons (Zero EXP and Negative combo) that isn't really present in 3. The abilities also enhanced Sora's core gameplay in meaningful way by modifying what you were already doing in gameplay rather than feeling like something slapped on top of the core of the game. Shotlocks especially have that feeling of 'each keyblade has it's own minigame' that doesn't really compare to the strategy of having to pick between much quicker MP regen or better finisher damage. 2's keyblade abilities felt like an upgrade to 1, where each new keyblade tended to feel like the new best one for one of the stats. The abilities gave each one a real value, even (especially really for some of the Data fights) at the end of the game. 3's sadly feel like a half step down. There's definitely a strategic element that goes into which one you pick but it still kind of boiled down to which one had the higher numbers for me when I played through.
Been a while since I've played 3 (and haven't played the DLC or Critical yet due to being busy with school and work) so I apologize if I've forgotten anything about this. Going mostly off my memory and some quick wiki checking. Thank you for reading my essay of a comment!
Dang, I really hope you do play the DLC/update 1.09 and Critical then! You may find yourself second guessing some of this or at least really enjoying it besides. Personally, I still enjoyed each Keyblade's abilities in KH3, especially since upgrading them gave you new ones. And I've always loved Shotlock from BBS so I was ecstatic to see it return, and have every Keyblade have their own base level shotlock, and max level shotlock. Hell, Starlight even has a completely different Ragnarok to the kingdom key. Using Fire Boost against Marluxia for example by using Dawn Till Dusk or Master Chef (just like using Bond of Flame in 2FM against Demyx, Vexen or Marluxia) especially when you're also using accessories or armor that give you those abilities, really does still make a difference. Yeah because you can upgrade them higher strength/magic IS important, but I always found myself switching it up. I don't want to talk too much about the updates/DLC/critical as you said you haven't played yet, but I really do think you'll enjoy it! Think about how many times you may have played 2FM, and how long the game has been out. There has not nearly been enough time for people to truly experiment with everything KH3/ReMind has to offer. Final Form Firaga strats are basically back too for speedruns lol.
@@zerosolis6664 Yo, I appreciate the reply! I picked up Remind recently when it was on sale and just got some time off from school/work. I plan on playing through it soon and doing a Crit playthrough before that. I still had a lot of fun with KH3 the first time through so I'm excited to play it with all of the changes and especially the new bosses. Really looking forward to it!
@@goblinpope No problem! Sick. I do believe that the new abilities are NG+, so if you have a Proud clear save, and you dont mind having all your Keyblades right away (including Ultima, they will all be base level again) you can start a Critical playthrough with all the new abilities I think! I actually played level 1 Proud right after I beat the game the first time and even though that was with the old combos and it was still a fun challenge, I actually started some crit level 1 data org today (I EZ code'd a lvl 1 crit run specifically to have one quickly for remind content xD but I do plan to do a real crit level 1 run soon) and level 1 is just so much better on crit. Scaling is actually pretty good in data org/secret boss, and I did some test fights with Battlegate 0, and San Fransokyo (latest-game content possible for best results I felt), and especially using Ultima Weapon/Kingdom Key/Oathkeeper and Oblivion, and with the new combos, formchanges, especially Second Form Keyblades and Light/Dark form, actually feel like extensions to Sora's combat instead of using transformations for combos other than speed slash or triple rush haha. And what's crazy is that those abilities are actually really good to use now because of combo cancelling! It might seem like placebo but Sora does do more damage now (especially if you use Ultima for combo boost/air combo boost) due to having a longer combo. Imagine kh2fm's level 1 damage without combo finishers like explosion or modifiers like flash step/snapshot. so level 1 is actually quite fun! Especially in battlegate 0 I felt like it didnt drag. blocking and countering/using magic and forms felt satisfying and pretty balanced imo. Links are still either really good or not that great I'd say at level 1, but they are definitely not strong enough anymore to even be considered to be used instead of Sora's base kit or transformations. Still think they're better than kh2 summons but they really needed variety and some more balance.
Anyway sorry to have such a long reply again, I hope to hear some of your thoughts later if possible! KH3's base game still has some issues especially with enemies but overall the changes to the combat really make mob fights more enjoyable if you ask me. Especially combo cancelling by itself! Knowing you can guard and dodge out of anything (other than stuff like final finishers but it's still good timing if you're quick!), and I'm talking like even as fast as being able to guard after you trigger Dark Inferno's counter via RV, or as fast as the first swing of speed slash or first hit of triple rush, just makes high risk high reward a thing and makes you feel safer in mobs. Plus don't forget risk dodge! It's good lol. There are still things like enemies you cant see (I always felt like mobs sometimes had too many enemies haha but it's more manageable now imo), but stuff like off screen lock on actually helps with that now. Anyways like i said i dont want to talk too much about it but here I am going off haha. You should experience it yourself! Have fun dude and enjoy the data fights. It'll be worth the wait and replay to get to them on critical!
You missed one of my personal complaints, Any disney worlds with the exception of monster's inc, toy story and big hero 6 are literal garbage compared to kh2 or kh1. Except for the 3 I mentioned that had custom stories made for the game the rest all but completely remove sora from their movie's plot line, have no character progression and feign progress without explaining anything.
Like in Frozen you meet elsa once and anna once and outside of that you are climbing up and down a mountain only to fight a random heartless that comes out of a guy they don't introduce in game. Hercules you meet herc like 3 times and they don't explain/show the plot of the movie at all really only for sora at the end to talk to herc as if sora even knew herc was dealing with where he belonged as far as mortal vs god realm. PotC you are only there for the start and end of the movie plot with random movie cutscenes thrown in there in between (that happen without sora even knowing). Tangled you see a few almost completely ripped from the movie cutscene with sora thrown in, have no visible character progression but now the 2 characters love each other and stuff happens, etc etc. And not to forget that nothing of real story importance happens in any of the worlds. Honestly between the random implementation of "attraction flows" that they never give an in game reason for, how bad the movie plots of disney worlds are and the removal of all final fantasy characters (outside of moogles and not counting anything from the dlc) from the game it all feels extremely sus that disney was pulling some shit and squenix can't say anything about it.
Also why'd they have to go with the ending they did? Sora is finally away from donald and goofy and it was the perfect opportunity to let sora and kairi have a game together but nope can't let them ever spend more than a handful of cutscenes together.
In kingdom hearts 1 and (arguably) kingdom hearts 2, the Disney worlds complemented the central narrative.
In kingdom hearts 3 the Disney worlds were a narrative hindrance so detached from the central story that even the main character wasn't sure why he was there.
What's the point of even having a Disney world if you're not even going to confront any of the film's antagonists?
Nothing of real story importance happens in the worlds? Did you even pay attention?
The black box was brought up in The Caribbean. Vanitas shows up in Monstroplis. The 7 princesses of heart were a MASSIVE plot point and were brought up in both Arendelle and Tangled.
There were tons of important things.
Also KH2 had the exact issue that you think KH3 had. Literally none of the worlds in KH2 had anything to do with the plot, and I’d argue Sora felt more disconnected in the plot of those worlds than KH3. & None of those worlds progress Sora as a character.
I love KH2, don’t get me wrong. But it had a ton of issues with its Disney worlds. Issues that weren’t nearly as present in KH3.
a cat Which is why they confronted the Organization instead, which were the main antagonists.
@@BobbyTheGamerOfJUSTICE Those are merely scrabbles. Just adding one or two little quips of plot does not over yet give much. There is more when it comes interesting story and execution. It is true those chars appear in those worlds but in the end it doesn't really affect to end results in very compelling way. But unlike in KH2 they at least had some funny moments which gave a vision that these Disney folks had their own local campaign against Darkness.
I agree that KH2 is the lowest on the ranks when it comes down to Disney worlds, which overall weakens its plot. Damn... I kinda wish Roxas had been the main char in KH2. He likely as a Nobody doomed to fade would have had many kin moments with Auron and maybe forging his own friendships with locals while rebelling against his old crew had been big improvement.
I actually like kh1 more sometimes, it was well balanced.
If the game is not fun it's not that we love just one game. Re coded was awesome and it's similar to bbs, but has better combat and balance
I don't really like kh1 but fm made it really good with the new combos.
KH2FM is the best game I have ever played, I’ve bought every 2FM port and never get tired of it
There's a weird trend in games that's kind of boiling over now where as games have degraded over the course of its series, the people that liked the older games and want the new games to be more like them are now bashed as being elitists, see KH2FM, see Melee, see Paper Mario series. Zelda might go through this too if BOTW and BOTW2 are a turning point for 3d zelda games.
Ultimate is better than Melee tho and I say this as somebody who loves melee
There's also nothing wrong with wanting a sequel to a good game to play similarly to that good game lmao, why do people take that as a bad thing?
I'm honestly a huge fan of DDD's combat. Flowmotion feels so good in that game!
The big problem with DDD is flowmotion is just about the only thing that feels good.
I completely disabled flowmotion in kh3. I don't like it. It's slow.
Great analysis, that could be tied to similar discussions outside of the KH fandom.
I want to add something to it: part of what made the discourse surrounding the gameplay of KH how it is also comes from how they released several "important" chapters on multiple consoles with at times completely different gameplay and combat system. Ultimately I think it was more to its detriment because it made some fans used to the concept of just scrapping most of the previous games' ideas in order to pursue a new system from scratch, understandably making a lot of mistakes or oversights along the way each time because, well, you're wrestling with a different beast every time.
Truthfully, this "KH2FM debate" should end the moment we say "We just want the newer KH titles to take what KH2 FM did good and expand on that", because that's just a better way to ensure that every new KH title will be more polished and refined, but other fans are now so used to the idea of "Yeah no KH2 was good but that was it, it had some good concepts but they should stay there with it, every new KH needs to be completely different" that in their minds is even RIGHT that KH III Sora has bad combos or that some tools made specifically to reference the KH II ones are inferior. The concept that a 20 years old franchise starts anew every time has become so normalized some don't even see the deriving shortcomings anymore.
One just needs to take a look around: Mario for instance is such a diverse franchise, but it makes it perfectly clear when something is a spin-off diversion and when something is the next big main installment that tries to improve upon the original games. So people will rarely respond to criticism towards a Super Mario Bros game by saying "No it's fine because when you look at Paper Mario, it also had a few problems".
Instead we have KH III, then we have the main villain's past showcased in a mobile game wich is completely different, and whatever will happen to Kairi after Re:Mind will come in a rhythm one. Everything is so different yet so forcefully connected that making people understand that KH2 FM shouldn't just exist in the "KH2 FM dimension" but should be a stepping stone for the bigger picture becomes an at times impossible task.
EXACTLY!!! It's funny, really. When I finished the last Disney world on KHIII, I stopped playing altogether. It just didn't feel like the same franchise. For a while, I thought to myself, "Why do I feel so gross playing this game I waited for so long for?" I figured it out 3 months later: 1. The story was no longer personal 2. The gameplay was uncontrollable and weightless. Tbh I only cared about the sea-salt trio, Sora and Riku. There was too much plot points and people I didn't care about in the way. I didn't like where Nomura was heading with the story, so I left. I'm now watching the series from a distance, shaking my head as people still follow along with the bs.
A lot of the KH2FM detractors really don't realize just how well made KH2FM is as an action game. It had great combat, a very large roster of enemies/bosses to fight that threw curveballs at you all the time, plenty of options you could use in a fight, great mobility options (which were somewhat wasted due to the lack of platforming outside of CoR imo), every weapon had genuine reason to be picked over others even in the late game for certain situations or playstyles, and it introduced two absolutely amazing design concepts in the form of both revenge value and the battle level system (the thing that makes level 1 runs even possible without sucking)
To be fair, if every keyblade transformation was distinctly different then some keyblades would see virtually no use (as it stands you can use whatever keyblades you want with effectively similar results) take valor form for example, yeah, you’ll abuse it while you can but once you unlock master form or limit form there isn’t really a reason to ever use valor again, at that point you’d be deliberately limiting yourself. I agree that there is very little difference between the keyblade transformations from a functionality viewpoint but there is enough of a difference in how each ‘type’ of transformation ‘feels’ that everyone tends to have their own personal preference, some like the claw type transformations, others like hyper hammer, others like Highwind and stormflag or second form. It could certainly be better, but when the differences between the different transformations become to functionally different, some will naturally get the short end of the stick while others become ‘the best’ kind of like how no one uses hidden dragon.
The spells however... those could have been better 😓
Ah, if only kh3 had reliable defense magic, good guarding, combos that feel proper, better revenge value, more balanced summoning, smoother control of the character, limits that aren't random, damage scaling on crit lv 1, control over when I want a drive form.... So much more...
Truth
@@silentjoker45 it sucks so hard. Especially when I look at the vanitas mod or aqua mod. How can a small team of fans make a better kh game than what Osaka team could do with kh3?
Aside from the guarding very rarely(in my experience) failing, the guarding feels pretty damn good, it's still a mostly a pretty a mindless game where your hardest choice is to either do a big dick aoe attack at the expense of your mp or to do a shittier version of that same attack except you don't lose all your mp
Usually as soon as you post a criticism, they'll go and say
"Can you just let other people enjoy their game? stop spreading negative vibes"
aaand we're done, you can't say anything, they just won.
Hey man this comment is really harshing my mellow, can you please stop spreading negative vibes?
Well I wouldn't say they've won. It's just we've hit an impasse/brick wall because the other side isn't willing to listen nor have their minds changed so at that point we're just wasting time.
@@Webshooters1 If someone is not seeking formal critiques ,and you put upon them formal critiques they have every right to say that. It's like some random stranger coming up to you, and telling you not to offer critiques on something when it wasn't requested. It makes you want to respond, and it makes you want to argue the point, and you will argue the point, and at that point all that has happened is an argument. An argument does indeed "spread negative vibes" when the person simply wants to enjoy a game they like without being inundated with negative vibes from people feeling compelled to tell them they shouldn't enjoy the game...which is, in fact, what you are saying in making such unrequested criticisms. Do away with this thought that "I'm just pointing out flaws to try to help a series I like" You aren't going to help the series by flaunting your dislike to random people who do like it. Doing so is only seeking backlash, and argument.
@@alexrivers8163 most of these conversations are reserved to public internet spaces. Everyone has the right to post whatever praises or criticisms they wish on public forums/videos/etc. If someone enjoys a game less because other people on the internet, thats just a sign that they are incredibly immature and insecure. If someone was truly secure with themselves, negative opinions on their personal taste would not effect their enjoyment whatsoever. If it really effects someone that much then they should evaluate their relationship with the internet.
Enjoying something less because you are aware that other people dont enjoy it is a major sign of insecurity.
6:28 "its not actually about whether a person likes or dislikes situation commands". Honestly sums up about every conversation about kh3. Any criticism of kh3 rarely gets met with a critically thought out point of view. Most often than not you'll get the same response of "i liked so and so". It just shows that a lot of people take criticism as personal attacks for some odd reason. I feel that 2FM fans usually can admit and respect the flaws that people point out in 2fm and still appreciate some of the things that kh3 brought to the table. I can not say the same for the other way around. Most criticisms of kh3 are responded to with personal feelings, getting called a "hater", or just out right fabricated criticisms of kh2 such as drive forms being broken because the drive gauge fills up too fast (like what?). Funny how only some fans have the maturity to admit both the positive and negatives of a game.
Reading the title...
Wait, the misconception haven't cleared up yet?
It has been what, 1 year?
Even if I agree with every single thing you’re saying in this video, the way you represent each side of the Fanbase is so one-sided it makes it hard to watch
As someone who is not really a huge KH fan (and definitely wouldn’t say I’m part of any KH community) I like KH2FM the most. The largest reason for this is actually not about the combat. I think the way KH2 told the story is much better than KH1 and KH3. Also, KH2 has way more of the types of bosses that I think really shine, as all of the org fights are interesting and rewarding. KH3 doesn’t have a lot of those fights in it without the DLC (which I don’t own). Those are what I think are actually the short comings of KH3.
not sure if i agree on the story part, i like both KH1 and KH2's story for different reasons, both have their advantages but both also have their shortcomings, KH1 has more going on and more consistency where KH2 has more emotion and drama, sometimes very stupid drama, like when a rock falls on Goofy, where the events are really ridiculous but the scene is still treated deathly serious, i'm okay with that but someone else who prefers a more streamlined story like KH1 might see that, go "fuck that i'm out", here's the thing, neither is wrong
i do think KH1 has KH2 beat by a mile in pacing tho, KH2 feels like it constantly has to balance itself tonally and forgets what its doing with the plot sometimes and veers off it, like the revisits to the disney worlds, whereas KH1 only forced you to do 3 revisits that were all short, and had a more natural cause for them
I don't agree on the story part. Most of the Organization members lacked a proper background. KH2's plot is basically "Kill every hooded guy you encounter for whatever reason while searching for Riku.".
@@livix3767: that's oversimplification, i will say i hate how fixated nomura became on org XIII and zeenort as the games go on -legit hoping the next KH whatever it is has zero ties to them- but i think they're one of the better elements of KH2's plot due to how they and Sora interact, it's not super deep but gives you a good reason for why you want to beat the bad guys while not being completely unrelatable
that said i do think the execution could've been much better, outside of the twist after 1K heartless, beast's castle and at the end of the game you don't really experience the effects that this evil group have really had on the world
@@dmas7749 KH2's story is mostly missed potential and bad execution. I don't think missing playing CoM affects much since Namine has no presence in story that I cared to know more. Outside of Roxas' demise, and even that was kinda rushed, drama parts were merely drops in water and mostly shoehorned.
I think the biggest mistake was to not make Roxas the main protag in KH2. Sora would've just been Han Soloed to organization tower and Roxas eventually agrees to go rescue him with his Riku and folks while facing his old camaderies. That would have been far more genuine drama.
@@Yurikon3 i won't argue with most of the first part, it's far from well crafted but kid me was fairly invested in the characters and how their story would unfold, much unlike now me and modern KH
i very much disagree with the second paragraph tho, the game switching to Sora was not a mistake, the biggest mistake is pacing with the world revisits, which KH1 just did with traverse town and much better
i don't dislike your ideas but roxas also merged after his final battle, "You make a good other" still makes me well up a little inside, since it has a lot of emotional build up and i'm biased towards that
I think the problem is that the fans got really defensive over the series bacause of all the sh*t it got before and after KH3's release and I can't really blame them for that. I remember that back then there were lots of critics being as basic as : "KH3 sucks, KH2 is way better." and other stuff like that (there were a few constructive criticism but those were swallowed by the endless sh*tstorm). Also, it's been labelled a bad game by multiple youtubers (despite not being as bad as they claimed it was). Because of that lots of fans don't make the difference between criticism and bashing. And since then, it's nearly impossible to have a constructive discussion about KH3 because there's always this "KH3 sucks vs KH3 is great" war.
Also, there are quite a few KH2FM elitists. Once I saw a guy beeing like : "I'm a KH fan, KH2 rules the other games suck.". Like, how can you claim you're a fan of a series while you like 10% of it? XD
My man dunkey actually gave KH3 a 0 out of 5, and that was less controversial than giving Naughty Dog's new golf game a 4/5.
As someone who loves both KH3 and 2FM equally, I want a balance between both gameplays.
Very rarely have I ever seen the middle column statements actually said.
I just want a KH game that's as well designed as kh2 with the added mechanics of kh3
As for Transformations, I think it would certainly help the diversity of each Transformation if they just scrapped the broader Forms/categories (Strike Form, Guardian Form, etc.) and just focused on making each Transformation its own separate class, truly distinct from the others.
Forms like Counter Shield, Arrowguns and Mirage Staff already have that going, but the DPS forms (Hyper Hammer, Agile Claws, Highwind) are all too samey. Why don't we make the Hammer more of a tanker (with more i-frames in combos), the Agile Claws more of an Antiform-style combo, and the Highwind more Dragoon-themed evasion (such as a greater Quick Run, and manually-inputed jump attacks. I dunno, just something to make the mall stand out from one another.
The keyblade transformations are amazing since keyblades do different things once you transform, but I wish you could transform when you want to instead of having to unlock it through whacking things.
What I did when playing is transform a keyblade then switch to another. Going back to that one later, it will still be transformed. It was good to have one that way if a boss started doing something dangerous
Sadly, the game was garbage and that was literally the only neat thing I personally experienced with the game
it's funny how this is similar to Paper Mario TTYD fans, things becoming changed through time that doesn't reach the same progress as a game before that did battle systems to its peak. Then newer fans or just casual fans complain about the people who just want better gameplay saying how they're too stuck on the past. It's a cycle alright. Plus RNG invading on the newest game more and more meh.
I have to disagree with the Keyblade Transformation point- most transformations don't feel similar at all aside from the Formechos due to the weapon and magic changes (if there even is a magic change). To say most feel the same is to say that something like Hyper Hammer and Drill Punch feels the same as Agile Claws and Twin Yo-yos. Saying that "oh you press x and you hit stuff" is also how Drive Forms are as well- with the exception of Wisdom Form because those peashooter shots are only good for staggering bosses.
Let's take a look at two Keyblade Transformations that feel vastly different from each other (that I mentioned above)- Hyper Hammer/Drill Punch and Agile Claws/Twin Yo-yos.
Hyper Hammer is a moderately pased, hard hitting transformation with a lower DPS but a higher DPH (Damage per hit) and close-range AOE magic (similar to KH2 Fire), with Drill Punch being a mildly faster second stage transformation that shares the low DPS high DPH and close-range AOE magic of Hyper Hammer. Whereas Agile Claws, while sharing the same magic, is a high-speed, high DPS transformation with various multi-hitting attacks and Flowmotion attack changes, with Twin Yo-yos being a similarly fast-pased second stage transformation with even higher manuverability, multi-shot high range magic (in the same vain as Hunny Blasters/Double Arrowguns) and a couple grapple attacks.
Alternatively, let's look at a transformation that is similar to all others, but also none of them at the same time- Nano Arms.
Nano Arms utilizes attacks from each transformation type- a hammer slam from Hyper Hammer/Boom Hammer, a swinging flagpole from Stormflag, a Yo-yo twirl from Twin Yo-yos, a claw drill (which is the Flowmotion attack for Agile Claws/Blizzard Claws), and a few original attacks as well.
TL;DR, the point "Most/All transformations feel the same" is a stupid point that makes almost no sense when not looking at Formechos due to each form having a specific purpose built around the weapon, magic style, and form style (form style being the types of Strike, Element, Blitz, Guardian, and Special (Special encompassing Second Form, Ultimate Form, Light/Dark Forms, and Double Form)).
I want a kh game that has an interesting story that can be told hell even darker take on the series could be interesting. As for gameplay improve upon on what work in other games. Like kh2 combat that gives players agency, different character with their own style of combat with risk & awards when choosing one over sora. Etc
Actually all I want is for BBS to have better balance and for the animations cancel timing to be actually polished.
How are there already comments?!
It's a premiere
Could you talk about what you think about kh1 and kh2fm if they were to be mixed together and how you think those would work together in tangent with each other
Such a fun discussion. Thanks bb.
They call him an elitist, but he knows most Keyblade transformation names from KH3 so I don't really see elitism here.
I want every kh game to be as fun as kh2fm if not higher but we havent got that since
I think you have really good points, however I do want to point out from my perspective that movability and 3D fighting seems to be a major focus with KH3 focusing on the ability to have intense air movement as well as ground movement, combos and magic even reflects this as Sora is never truly 'grounded' like he was in KH2 which focused on heavy movement and deliberate attacking relying on stunlocking rather than fast but strong combos. You even yourself have relied on stun locking into combos to basically drain a enemy of health, the way I imagined it as that Master Form Drive reflects a lot of what Sora feels like in KH3 for me, crowd control, air movement and with it vulnerability since all of Master Form's combinations are air combos and if attacked could be interrupted.
Keyblade transformations focus on speed and attacking as many enemies as possible, each form becoming faster and faster rather than heavier which I can see why this is a bit of a problem with players. Heavier means more committed and feels satisfying when you finish a large combo, while lighter floaty combat feels less so because there is no extreme finish to the combo no backpeddling from the enemy that is visible as enemies go flying back from the finish.
For myself it makes combat feel extremely chaotic where KH2 felt very straight forward and creating reflexive strategies rewarded us because each enemy could be approached in a direct manner. Sora in KH3 feels especially in critical mode feels like a whirling glass cannon able to dish out tons of damage but can be smacked back easily.
but I dont know, I enjoy it and do have many things I agree with when it came to what you had said which would only improve the game.
One thing I really think would have genuinely helped would have been more variation in Magic when transformations happen. Yes there is SOME, like the claws giving you an AoE burst and the blasters/magic launcher changing the shots, but they all more or less do the same thing as each other spell (I.E. fire is going to do the same thing thunder would do and such)
I think that, especially with spells like Aero, there was so much missed opportunity. Imagine a more melee focused transformation that made it so that, say, when you case Aero, it does a burst around you, but that burst launches them straight into the air, and it "cancels" the combo to immediately put you into a flow motion jump, as Aero does, for you to follow up, or maybe you could air step to follow up without flow motion or roll cancel it to not get launched upwards with them and follow up with something else from the ground.
KH3 is so sad to be because it TRIES to have the fundementals KH2 does but just bogs them all down to their simplest possible form.
This might be a good spot to find some ingredients
Hi donald
Also Kh2 is a more satisfying conclusion to the KH franchise than 3 and that's just bonkers.
KH1 > CoM>KH2 pretty good trilogy right there
Except KH2 didn’t even conclude everything though. And KH3 was never supposed to be a conclusion
0:10 🤚🤚🤚
12:00 Hello????
"B-but bb, kingdom hearts ISNT an action game!" I'm interested in your take on that.
This is similar to how paper mario fans will blame anyone who wants a good game of "Just wanting TTYD again".
I think that KH3 is the most fun to play in the entire series, but it surely has some things to learn from KH2FM
Why are people still comparing Sora’s combos from the base game to 2FM instead of the significant upgraded abilities from Remind.
They hardly exist and the issues from kh3 are very much still present in Remind.
Sluna They are very prevalent in everything after Re:Mind, which is all the combat focused part of the game. You can also do New Game plus and play the whole game with the abilities, it’s very fun.
Homestly, I think KH3's problem is enemy AI, unbalanced combat and unproper gravity. I don't really need it to be like KH2FM. But all those things I mentioned are properly programmed into KH2FM so don't be surprised when people prefer that other one. The problem is that KH3 feels like a very lame and fanlike 3D beat em' up. I say this because most combat options are just visual variety.
If we could combine the freedom of combat and creative combos of kh3 that come from flow motion and keyblade switching with the tight combat of kh2 we’d be golden
As someone who's platinumed KH1 and base KH3 and who's nearly platinumed KH2, I think all 3 are great. However, imo KH1 is actually my favourite out of all of them:
1) Combat. I appreciate KH2's and KH3's diverse arsenal of abilities, but for me KH1 has always been the most fun to play. In KH2, magic always felt underpowered up until I used Reflect to kill Roxas, and summons basically made you unstoppable. Drive forms were fun, but the fact that the movement abilities were locked behind 2 hours of grinding was frustrating for someone wondering why the hell they still hadn't gotten Dodge Roll by the time they entered World that never was. In KH3 every ability was just super powerful, I felt like I could 1v13 the entire organisation honestly. But this meant that at least I could use the abilities interchangeably and make the fights more personalized. What I really commend KH3 for doing is getting rid of the infinite healing loop that could be done in the past games with MP and Drive recovery abilities. With all of that said, in KH1 your arsenal was a lot smaller, however everything was always a viable way of dealing with stuff. To beat a boss, you didn't have to know what tool to use, you had to figure out how to best use the few tools you had. The internet guides could only get you so far.
2) Difficulty (I'm going off my Standard runs on each game since I haven't done my critical run of KH2 yet) KH3 was a walk in the park. KH2 was a walk in the park except for Roxas and Data Axel. KH1 was the hardest for me to beat when I first was going through it. Clayton is an evil boss who absolutely demolishes you if you're not careful. Captain Hook can blow your brains out if you don't react fast. Riku 2 I was stuck in for ages because it was so tough to spot the openings in his last phase, same for Ansem 2 but for the entire battle in general. Don't get me started on Phantom bs Sephiroth, those 2 killed me more than every KH2 superboss combined.
3) Music. A bit of a shorter section but an important one nonetheless. Don't Think Twice is for sure my favourite Utada song of the trilogy but Simple and Clean is is a classic. The OG Dearly Beloved is beautiful, but I appreciate how it's complexity has grown along with the complexity of the games. The Gummi Ship theme is iconic for me and hearing anything other than Blast Off in KH2 just felt wrong. I also really like Twilight Town's theme in future games but think Traverse Town's is more memorable.
4) World design. KH2 felt really bland world-wise. The entire game just felt like courtyards for cutscenes to take place and corridors to take you between those cutscenes. Of course there are some outliers like Twilight Town's tram common or the cavern of remembrance, but they're the exceptions. The collectibles don't take much effort to find, the only ones you'll miss are ones you don't have the growth abilities for (still an annoying thing for me) or that you couldn't access during the main story. In KH3, the worlds get big and with very well hidden treasures and lucky emblems to find, but to make the worlds so big a lot of it is made up of just empty space. The Caribbean imo encapsulates this perfectly, it's an amazing world full of secrets that you won't see on your first visit but it's all between a massive sea with basically nothing in it. In KH1, every world is full of things to explore, and there's little empty space between it all. I bet most of us wouldn't have gotten Curaga if we hadn't looked it up.
5) Story. I love the stories for each game but honestly KH1 had the best pacing. In KH3 you get pretty much 0 story between Olympus and San Fransokyo. In KH2 you get pretty much 0 story for all your Disney world first visits. In KH1 the story keeps up all the way through. Obviously it doesn't come up as often between Wonderland and Atlantica but still in most world's you get some sort of important story development that keeps you invested until you find Riku in Neverland and things start to get real.
Ofc this is all just my opinion as a casual player, I am in no way as invested in detailed combat like most of everyone else here is. Still, I think it's a view that should be that unpopular. Yeah, it's a simpler game with simpler gameplay, story, graphics, etc., but at the same time it's imo the game with the most thought and care put into it, in a day and age before Disney executives thought of it as anything more than a spin-off videogame with no need for intervention. Plus, this might make some KH2&3 fanboys a bit miffed, so fun times for me :)
KH1 is probably my second favorite game in the series so no offense taken to me at least. I do want to offer my take on a couple of your points though.
1) I pretty much agree with this but I think it's worth mentioning that KH2's spells have really specific uses. Fire is a close range attack, while Blizzard is a projectile and Thunder is a large area of effect attack. Magnet and Reflect also have very obvious strategic benefits too. Fire/Blizzard in KH1 doesn't really seem to have found its niche to me. I never really have a reason to have both on my shortcuts. To lesser degree that's true for Stop/Gravity too. KH3 honestly feels like a step even further back than KH1. The difference between spells is fairly minimal in that game and they are all strong.
2) KH2 doesn't really shine difficulty-wise until critical mode. Final Mix additions like Roxas and Data-Axel only stand out because they were added in later. Critical in 2FM is such a revamp of the game that it completely changes the difficulty in a way that the modes in the other games don't. You level slower, deal more damage, have more abilities, have more AP (both starting and from levels) , and of course you have less health. It ends up feeling like a re-balance of the game into something that is legitimately challenging rather than just cranking up the frustration of the game. Leveling slower also helps you not get overleveled which can be a real problem in these games sometimes. Sora becomes a glass cannon since the game punishes failure much harder but rewards learning its fights with higher damage and gives you more tools to use against it.
3) Sanctuary still makes me want to cry like a baby 15 years later it's a crime that is used so little in the series comparatively.
Agreed on just about everything else! KH1 has a lot to love especially in its overall vibe as full game. For me, KH2FM only beats it out for because I enjoy its gameplay so much in spite of its shortcomings.
Tbh I was hoping for kh3 to just be basically 2fm but better. After the free patches/dlc I think it has raised the game up from what it was at base release but it's still a bit below 2fm imho. (I do not yet have the Re:Mind dlc so I can't speak on that part yet)
Edit: When I mean "2fm but better" I don't mean it has to be 1 for 1 2fm. Just like some or most of the fundamentals but improved upon and new things added.
"u just want a kh2fm sequep"
yes i do, the point of a sequel is to improve on the last game, not to exactly copy it, so yes i indeed would like a kh2fm sequel
no but foreal i like kh3 and kh2 and i think if they mix both ideas we could get something amazing
and my hopes are up after remind the combos they added where 👌 spicy
I typed all this up assuming the Ornstein and Smough comment was left in the video but it wasn't and I'm going to post this wall anyway.
The Ornstein and Smough comment is so fucked because while O+S is a great example of a multi-enemy fight that works, Dark Souls 1 has multi-enemy fights that fucking SUCK because they're not well designed. Being a multi-enemy fight isn't a free ticket to "it just works", if anything it's even harder to get working.
O+S is not a clusterfuck. It's certainly frantic but the bulk of the difficulty comes from awareness, especially when you know the Achilles' Heel of the fight. Capra Demon, in the very same game, is probably the worst actual boss fight in the game because it IS a total clusterfuck. The fight is literally a coin toss on whether or not the dogs allow you to get to the stairs or not and instantly becomes the easiest boss if you make it. Iron Golem? Fucking horrible if you don't kill the bomb giant. Four Kings? Clusterfuck. Pinwheel? Would be a clusterfuck if he had an actual health bar.
Saying that the Triple Nort fight is fine just because "other game does multi-enemy fights just get gud" is so unfathomably narrow-minded it's insulting and shows an unwillingness or inability to properly analyze the mechanics and design of a boss fight.
Personally, keyblade transformations as a concept is Squeenix's most effective compromise with balancing KH's increase in acrobatics with colorful disney aesthetic(with attraction flow obviously being the lease effective version). I'm not totally sold on it, but KH3 and the mobile games are clearly showing that they don't want to stick to just the base keyblade and need new physical objects to swing around.
KH2FM had barely any of that, and was the closest to having Sora age into a breakdancer rather than an amusement park. We don't.....HAVE anyone like that in rpgs. Tidus was made in a time when the hardware just wasn't there, and Noctis lives in a setting too gritty and non-elemental for some of the wackier combos. To me, it represents a niche that nobody has really capitalized on, an identity that's not Disney nor FF, and we're trading it away for.....more disney.
That's why I'm kinda hopeful when they say that the "Dark Seeker Saga" is over. We might be moving away from forcing in disney stuff over and over.
Well, for the Disney part, most of the Disney content is Nomura's choice, Disney/Pixar just oversee what Nomura has in mind and give him the thumbs-up.
Dude. The problem is, pretty much every KH game except for KH1 and 2 sucks really badly. Sorry KH2FM offers rewarding, fun, fast , balls-to-the-walls game-play that involves more than one button and doesn't have ridiculous mini-games to get basic abilities. Also, to quote Leffen, "Kingdom Hearts 3 is an actual 3/10 game..." The designers seem more interested in nonsensical situation commands and cringe-worthy attraction flows than actually making rewarding, fun, fast, balls-to-the-walls game-play. Damn right I want all KH games to be like KH2FM because EVERY other game in the series doesn't even come close to what it accomplished in its game-play.
I respect and appreciate your opinions. But I feel you missed the mark by not having a “what the KH3 fans means by saying this” like you did with KH2 fans. I love KH3 and I accept it has many (and I mean many) flaws. But this felt like just an exposè on defending 2fm while dumming down the defenses for later games. I 100% get that’s not the intent. But look at it this way. All your “what the 2fm fan says” comments are extremely well spoken and smart, while all the responding to 2fm ones are crude, rude, and stupidly undetailed to the point they all say the same thing. I just feel it’s not fair to those of us that are critical of 2fm to be placed in the same broad catergory as the trolls who just want to say 2fm sucks. I just feel if you’re gonna have a video like this, you should really be fair to both sides.
You're definitely right, I'll make it a point to have future videos with both viewpoints.
What was hard is the "you just want 2fm" nonsense usually stems from that minority of other/kh3 fans that dismiss 2fm immediately. But the arguments I threw together genuinely were things I saw on Twitter being spoken at the time.
Solid discussion bb. Keep up the solid work dude.
Haha, Keyblade go “shwing chop”
I remember when Remind came out, people were making fun of how it costed 30€ on launch. Dude, I wish I had paid 60€ for Remind and 30€ for base KH3. Just Kairi at the end of Remind controls better than Sora in the whole of vanilla KH3
to make things even funnier people who usually complain about price didnt get past half of the limit cut.
i was like "ofc it will look expensive as hell if u only played like 1/3 of what u bought"
@@anxjos Not only that, but complaining about paying $30 for a DLC that offers more content (I don't consider 2FM's data org really that good especially now that 3's is out, for reasons I'll elaborate on if you want/reply to this, nor do I consider Absent Silhouettes their own bosses tbh), instead of having to wait several years for a brand new re-release in your country (PS2 was not region-free if I recall, so not just anyone could just play original KH2 final mix), as part of a remastered bundle for $50 or $60 where you have to replay the whole game just to experience everything new is just stupid. ReMind is a steal for being $30, regardless if someone wants to use the "should've been in the game at launch" argument, or the "recycled content" argument.
Up next: 2FM iceberg video
I personally want a balance between kh2fm and kh3rm
While I could be wrong, I feel the issue here isn't that this is a case of a split in the KH fanbase between those who rode through the handheld releases up to KH3 while others upon playing KH2 waited for the next console title. Because that second group didn't play BBS or something, when they see a problem with KH3 they compare it the the closest point they have, KH2. But then those who did play the handhelds see a lot of these people pointing out a specific older game as doing it better and think "What makes KH2 so much better as a point of comparison than all theses other games that came out after it?" when that's not what the comparison was supposed to be.
How about an example:
The KH2 group sees the issues with Situation commands and makes the valid complaint.
The handheld group sees people calling out something KH3 isn't doing something a game 5 entries old did, and thinks "Why are you calling out KH2? BBS did the point they state better."
In summary, the point isn't KH2 is the best thing since toasted bread, its that 2 is the best point of comparisons for a lot of people and others didn't process that fact.
My thoughts!
Situation commands:
Kh3 has some real cool ones that deal a decent amount of damage, not too much, not too little. I just wish we could have gotten something less random.
Keyblade transformations:
I...don’t mind like the first 5 keyblades? After that, you get the same transformations. They could have reused some of the stuff from bbs 🤷🏻♂️.
Limp combos:
I think I’m somewhere in between. Yes! Kh 2 has some real snappy combos...but the team is getting better. Osaka? I think its osaka? DDD is a nightmare for me to play but in kh3 I feel the improvement.
its funny how since launch ive been told that KH2FM and 3 just cannot be compared because theyre not similiar in the slightest, yet its very obvious that KH3 is built (albeit poorly) upon the foundations of KH2FM, KH2FM isnt a perfect game, it has its flaws, it just so happens that KH2FM is a fun game with a very strong base/foundation, but at times it just felt like they took these super strong foundations, and instead of building a beautiful mansion on top of them, they built a mud hut instead, then with remind DLC they gave the mud hut a beautiful oak door.
I love 2FM so much.
I also like KH3 for different reasons.
Also all the casual fans that shit on people who were weary of the floatiness and lack of speed in combos and all the flaws we saw, they wouldnt care either way. Theyd still enjoy a better game. Do they even have a reason to argue that they know? It seems like twitter crowds just want to be contrarian for the sake of it and especially if its towards those who criticize a product instead of purely enjoying it. I saw it with kh3 and the fans telling us we shouldnt want a better game or good things from 2fm. I saw it with pokemon swsh and everyone trashing on valid criticism there. I saw it with paper mario origami king. These people really dont even have a rational basis of arguement when their whole reason for doing so is because someone doesnt automatically like the new product. Its insane, especially when so many of them wouldnt give 2 shits if it was what fans want or not. Theyd enjoy it anyways. Just like everyone who was defending kh3 on release likely never played critical or crit lv1 either in kh2. Theyd have fun mashing X and triangle regardless just like they did defending BBS and DDD. They're arguing from ignorance for the sake of contrarianism
Yeah twitter is the battlefield of dumbasses who just don't stand on they're own opinion but just have dogpile opinions