Why do the DEATHWING have FEATHERS? A Dark Angels Retrospective | Warhammer 40,000
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- The Dark Angels are well known to be covered in great big feathers, because they're ANGELS, right? Well, that's not how they started out, and not how those feathers got there. So let's dive into the history of the Dark Angels and see how they changed in the 1990s!
Support the channel:
Patreon ► / arbitorian
Get your discount HOBBY FIX (and buy me toys in the process!!)
Firestorm Games ► www.firestormg...
Elsewhere on the internet:
Twitter ► / arbitorian
Instagram ► / arbitorian
Copyright: Unless noted in the video, all images © Games Workshop 1987-2022. Title music is 'Black Rainbows' by Karl Casey @White Bat Audio
#warhammer #warhammer40k #warhammerlore #darkangels #spacemarines #history #lion #horusheresy #imperium #astartes #boardgames #tactica #letsplay #tabletopgaming #warhammer40k #warhammerworld #gamesworkshop #warhammer30k
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
0:14 frozen Ian to establish dominance
Praise the Omnissiah he unstuck!
Judging us for thinking Deathwing have feathers for the reason we think.
I immediately checked my wifi connection 😂
I definitely took it as a play for dominance and refused to break eye contact.
Do not break eye contact with Frozen Ian.
After this retrospective on the dark angels and a mention of genestealers so early on, I am once again begging you to do a retrospective on how the tyranids have changed over the history of 40k!
I know I'd watch the shit out of that.
Would like this for all races tbf. Eldar and the war in heaven especially (especially the new lore about neurons and eldar teaming up to fight chaos during the war in heaven...)
It would be awesome
I’d love that
I miss Nids having their organs showing through their rib cages.
I honnestly don't see why the Deathwing story can't be reasonably canon still, and as GW was reprinting it up until 2013 they clearly agree.
The Dark Angels don't recruit from Caliban any more, bit hard to after all as it got blowed up, so they're one of the chapters that recruit from a number of Imperial worlds. See the Imperial Fists who pick up some but not all of their recruits from Necromunda. No reason why one of those recruitment worlds couldn't have been the plains world that those Dark Angel terminators happened to hail from, and so chose to face overwhelming odds to defend it against the genestealer infestation.
That has always been the way I remember the background / story.
I was thinking the same thing.
Be pretty easy to have a custom Dark Angels successor chapter that has still recruits from that planet, and that has leaned into the Native American theme more than the knightly one.
This is what I think too. My theory that the plains world the DA’s recruit from in 40K is one of the archaeologies created after the destruction of Caliban in 30K
the reference to Salamander green as a highlight was because the old way to paint Dark Angles (back in the day) was to paint the model black and dry brush in salamander green - before adding orange or red trim. These were the paints available in the 'space marine' paint box... god I feel old.
Don't feel so bad. I remember that, too. At least you won't be old alone.
I also remember that. I got into the hobby near the end of 2nd Edition.
Well, hello fellas 😊
I remember how intriguing the Terminators, in particular the Blood Angels depicted on the original Space Hulk box, were. I loved the Aliens movie and the Colonial Marines (while Alien scared me my pants off xD), but the mighty Tactical Dreadnought Armor was so far out, in a positive sense, that I was hooked. The two expansion boxes and the Campaigns Book followed and we had hours upon hours of fun with that stuff, which then of course escalated into 40k 2nd edition…
Cloud Runner, Two heads Talking, Lame Bear, I loved all the old Deathwing Space Hulk supplement. Painted lots of the iconography on old metal terminators.
Battle brother Pacino 😂
Man, as a long time dark angels player this takes me back
Brother Pacino levels his holy bolter at the Ork Warlord and says, "Say hello to my little friend..."
That artwork is classic, spent many an hour staring at that as a kid. (In my 40s now..)
Had no idea until I was an adult who scarface was, now I can't unsee it haha.
I didn't realise as a kid who it was (I had this box in the 90s), then I got into films as a teenager and was like 'wait a minute..!' 😂
I don't know how I've never seen the connection, 😂
This felt familiar so I started digging through my old comics. true enough, Warhammer Monthly 36 has the comic “Deathwing: The tale of Two-heads talking”. A short story about a Native American looking deathwing librarian walking through a hive city that has sprung up on his home world. He laments the death of his native culture and dies fighting a horde of genestealer cultists. No mention of a planet name, but there’s a reference to the Planes and Hill tribes. All the people are similarly looking Native American
Nice! This is what I was thinking of. Kudos for keeping your WM collection together.. I sold mine a few years back and really regret it. Maybe it'll show up on W+ Vault at some point?!
I'm old enough to remember the Native American years. Thanks for this, Ian.
Same, i was just thinking about this the other night, the original Deathwing concept was far different
yup remember the dual codex we had with the blood angels
@@misterjones7248far more unique and interesting too
It's such a shame the Native culture has been all but abandoned. Don't get me wrong the Dark Angels are super cool and I love the aesthetic, it's just a shame that it came at the expense of neglecting a (for 40k at least) unique cultural reference.
I wonder if they feared it would be offensive, but really Native Americans would have had the most badass legion/chapter!
@@ghannos9869given how the Soace Wolves and White Scars were given the Swedish Chef and Charlie Chan treatment I doubt potential insult wasn't the reason.
Speaking as a white Canadian who tries to be conscious of Indigenous issues - that early reference is pretty awful. The visuals are almost a satire of Haudenosaunee/Wendat iconography, while the names and descriptions are obvious stereotypes of the Plains Nations. And, of course, it all suffers badly from the "Indigenous people are a monoculture" error. Even for its time it seems pretty superficial.
It would be very cool to see Indigenous references in 40K, but only if they do it without being a pastiche. In my opinion, of course.
@@davydatwood3158 I totally agree that's often the downside in looking for representation in media properties such as 40k, even when we do get it its an over generalization done with no regard for the actual culture. In fact 40k in particular is already very bad at this (salamanders and white scars).
You're free to create your own chapter with native whatever influences. Have a go (and show us pictures).
Me: break time, My brain: why DO they have feathers tho??
Because they're hippies.
I've always liked the idea that in Warhammer lore everything that's ever been produced is canon, but not all of the canon is accurate.
The concept that the narrator providing information believes what they're relating or that it's what was understood as truth when the story occurs, but may be incomplete, the product of thousands of years of retelling, or just completely wrong (and that the truth was actually suppressed by the Inquisition) is a great way of dealing with lore that spans 40 thousand years with multiple civilization shattering wars.
"It's not why you think"... yes, it is. I'm old and was there when the original lore was written. 😅
Do not cite the deep lore to me witch…
@@ITheOneEyedKing I came to say this 🤣
I was there the day -Horus slew the Emperor- GW changed the fluff! 😄😄😄
lmao I was gonna type that
As a Native American, I wish I had a chapter themed about my culture from such a major and important chapter. Also to add something- the Ravenwing being mounted warriors using blunt weapons is very similar plane hunters in southern canada
Well, the next best thing is making your own chapter with that theme!
That or Kroot, really.
As a white Canadian I always thought the indigenous story was a commentary on the residential school system and horrors perpetrated by the Canadian government and the Catholic Church. In the end the indigenous warriors in death wing were able to return to their culture and beliefs inspire of the horrors of the process of being turned into Catholic knight (space marines)
The ravens and corax are your chapter dark angels are old english culture of knightly Hood and bravery not bong heads blowing smoke up a mosses arse
The closest I could say now are the Raven Guard. They are rather explicitly based on Native American culture though I forgot from which region. They don’t get as much as the Dark Angel’s.
@@craigjones7343 crazy how they made up all those fake stories about mass graves and burned down those churches though
Ok, for background, I am an enrolled member of a federally recognized Tribe and lived on the reservation all my life. Here's what I will say on the Dark Angel Native American theme, its kinda tricky to talk about. I started getting into 40k when I was in high school, and my cousins and I liked the idea of the mass battles of 40k and the Space Marines. So using the internet we tried to find one close to us in some capacity, we did find the part of the story of Deathwing, and we kinda didn't like it. We are not a plain tribe technically (family and friends amount the Lakota's), so we kept looking and seeing the Knight theme and realizing they get taken as 16-year-old teenagers gave us vibes of our grandparents talking about the boarding schools. And yes we saw the Ravenguard, and my cousins made fun of the emo vibes it gave, so it kinda died as we did try to find a way to make a unique chapter work, but if we just used the rules it kept making it difficult. We are close to our Tribe and Bands so the chapter leaving forever to fight in wars till the day they died kinda started to seem like a living hell. I kept an eye on 40k since I did like the lore, I just couldn't connect with any of the factions well, and there was no exodite army, (I mean come on, elves riding dinosaurs into battle!!). TTS kept my interest, what got me back into 40k, and finally found a faction that I liked and could connect with that would surprise most people, its the League's of Votann/squats.............yeah I know, shocking but hear me out. The LOV have a strong connection to the Tribalism that we connect with, yes they are based on Nordic/Greek culture, but it was the attitude that was the click. A people that are considered Abhuman by the imperium based on purity(blood quantum laws) have sovereign territory like us, there are hundreds of leagues, each with their own unique kindred and culture, have a strong connection to their ancestors, and the biggest one, the need of the kindred and survival. My people care about each other a lot, and in our history we sometimes had to raid to survive. Was it good? No, but it was done all for survival. Not all Trbes mined, but many did for resources, and a huge counter is them destroying planets, yeah I agree that's not the same, but we are human too, and sometimes we did actions that were not good either. Also the corporation background, yeah but some of us have our own now, and I will be honest I don't want a one to one connection, that would create way too many issues. I told my cousians about it recently and they started to really get into it, because of phrases like "the ancestors are watching", in the old days if you spoke the language and helped you were part of the tribe, so Kyn is Kyn, and also a stubborn people with grudges......for anyone who doesn't know yeah we can carry grudges hard XD . And yes, I was more easily able to make a Native American LOV, which I love!!!
That's a really cool reading of the lore and imagery of the game.
A Native American Votaan sounds *really* cool! Would love to see those models someday
Early 40k was amazing, just a grab bag of mediaeval obsessions fantasy crossovers and totalitarian cosplay, and I loved how they made a point of saying the universe is big do whatever you want, even make your own legions and units, it was like gaming with your mates, a far cry from today's company and certainly not as profitable.
The world building was also massively influenced by the college education and reading of the GW staff.
As a Native American this is awesome. I’ve always wanted to throw in some of my culture and tradition into my models. Now I can start a new army!
@nikelasimeona I don’t know what tribe or band you are a part of, but I’m painting some Kroot right now, and really playing with the models, they have a very post colonial plains and woodland indigenous peoples and Métis people feeling (I am a Métis), so I am adding in some Métis references in the colour scheme!
I hate they pulled back from that.
Raven Guard are extremely Native American based at least from their culture
@@weekendminis offence is only ever taken, not given.
Would it be any more 'offensive' than the Mongolian White Scars? The Viking Space Wolves? Or ((as a Catholic myself) Racist Space Catholics? Or do American Indians uniquely need shielding from this like children?
The Raven Guard are entirely Native American inspired, not just a single company like the Dark Angels
I love the original Deathwing short story, it's what made me fall in love with the Chapter - alongside the Angels of Death codex of course.
Thank you so much for covering this!
Arbitor Ian: I love this kind of content; I enjoy almost everything you output but I feel like these retrospective videos are where your channel is at its best. Keep up the good work!
RIP to Mr. Ansell. Gone but remembered.
14:42 Soooo the Ezekiel model is over 25 years old and still is not getting an update with the new codex, holy shit
Another quality video. As I've said before, I love your style of telling *the story and evolution of the lore itself*, not just reciting what's told in the rules books and novels. I also appreciate that you make no effort to hype or sensationalize it. Thank you, again, @ArbitorIan.
I started 40k with OG SpaceHulk /Deathwing board games, I always liked the story Great video as always!
This was hilarious because I've wanted to paint feathers and flowers on my DW Knights. I didn't realize this was their background!
I really like the Plains Nations motif. It stands out against all the European stuff.
Me too! While I do enjoy the more Arthurian Dark Angels we have today, it would be cool to see maybe a successor chapter that leans into the Native American theme a bit more. It would just have to be done carefully and in tandem with cultural representatives. I wouldn’t expect a British company to handle Native American themes particularly well.
Idk if anyone else mentioned but there was definitely an Inferno/Warhammer Monthly comic version of it with the Native American stylisation and Genestealer invasion.
It was a special issue Warhammer Comic depicting the original Deathwing story.
I still have my copy.
Had no idea about this lore. Very informative and entertaining video. Keep up the good work.
I love these videos about the lore put into context of the game and history of GW, thank you
The Ravenwing being the 7th company makes waaaaaay more sense than it being the second, honestly.
I love this type of video, almost like a meta analysis of the lore! Gets to the real reason for why things are the way they are. No doubt they take a lot of effort, but these are my favourites!
The new Belial mini has a plains symbol and so does the new lion model. Just look closer at the bases 👀
Dark Angels has always been my Army and I am glad you made this video! Appreciate you brother! 🎉🎉🎉
5:04 Battle Brother Pacino! Bloody hysterical.
I loved that story back int he day I wish I could find that story again
Its on you tube buddy, I found it a few months ago.
3rd ed (when I stopped playing ) had references (pg 7 of the 3E DA codex, which I pulled off my shelf to check 🤣) to the death wing being white to honour the memory of a lone squad that returned to their home world to fight a Genestealer invasion, so parts of the lore survived the 2nd Ed purge
I go into the hobby towards the end of 2nd Edition.
The plains planet short story was still in print up (in an anthology) until 12 years ago.
Ian. Your 40k lore videos are second to none! Thank you for such incredible breakdowns and summaries! Keep up the excellent work!
I love stuff like this. I could watch those kind of videos for days.
Lol! The original Space Hulk with the Deathwing (and Genestealer) expansion is the only GW game I still own & play (haven't played 40k since 3rd) - to me they've never changed. I still love the original lore and artwork.
This was really informative, didn't know anything about the early Dark Angels origins, I rcently bought the Death Wing Assault box and I'm starting to get into DA lore, this was fun
I love how frequently you've been uploading Ian 😎
These are my favorite videos that you do. I love learning about how different aspects of the game a lore have changed over time.
that Deathwing story was one of my first introductions to 40k and i have always really liked it. i actually have some old DA sitting on my desk right now and one of them is one of those metal Deathwing terminators! great video.
This content is why I love this channel. I remember hearing years ago that the Dark Angels had a Native American theme in the past but I had never seen it.
I really like that the plains planet story stayed and is told to initiates. That's really cool to me.
I started playing right at the beginning of 3rd and have actually wanted to know this since then. Awesome. Thank you.
The Native American theme was the last thing i could have imagined for Dark Angles.
Retrosepctive & Warhammer easter eggs is always the best thing from this channel, really love it. You should do how/where does the space marine legions get their culture from
I was hoping for a video like this ever since your HH legion video on them. I love seeing how the lore and theming goes through different versions.
Really interesting video, got into Dark Angels and had no idea about the feather. Great to know, and interesting to see how flexible the lore actually is vs what some people on the internet seem to think.
Thank you for this - This has been a brain hurting conundrum for me for some years now and I can finally put it to bed; I had decided to build a Dark Angels (full representation of) full Chapter and I fell deep into a Rabbit Hole, because I still had the early publications with this exact story and so I was a little disheartened that the Unforgiven had primarily become Carl and Lenny from the Stone Cutters episode of The Simpsons ""Ehhh, it's a secret"
I did however try to tilt my cap in that earlier direction and so gave my scouts skulls to adorn and Native markings and also kitbash some of the hair plats of Space Wolves head, to make little Padawan sxtensions (on the Scouts).
Thank you again for this, Ian
A small nod to the Native American past of the Dark Angels can also be found in the Horus Heresy novel series. In a short story which I cannot recall its name, Meric Astelan is described as wearing two long braids of hair at each side of the head, and they are mentioned as being a tradition of the old Terran veterans.
Latter (don't recall either if it is in Fallen Angels or the short in which he dies by head-punch), Remiel is shown as having adopted this hairstyle too, as some new Calibanite marines.
I loved that short story in the Deathwing booklet. I think of it every time I see those feathers & the bone white armor.
I was under the impression but since the dark Angels we're not homeworld-based that they pulled their potential members from multiple planets. And that the plains world was not the homeworld but just one of the worlds they draw from and happen to be American Indian focused. So it's still kind of fits with everything if I have it right
That was definitely how they presented it at one point.
In Deathwing it WAS the chapter home world.
In 2ed it was in the Deathwing lore as 'some recruits home world'
By 6ed it was an apocryphal tale that may or may not have ever been true
I seem to remember thats how it was in third ed.
"... an apocryphal tale that may or may not have ever been true." That's all of 40k Fluff in a nutshell for me 😍👍@@ArbitorIan
That was fascinating, thank you Ian for that insightful look into the history of DA. Half knew about their Indian past but not to this depth of knowledge.
Would love to see similar deep dives into other SM legions and other factions like how the Necrons have gone from robot terminators (1984 classic film) into robot Egyptians.
I loved the OG Deathwing story it's what made me fall in love with the chapter.
There was a nice nod to it in the recent Son of the forest book, mentioning a marine with an arm painted bone white, as they'd been honored after saving a battle brother. Hence my chaplain having one bone white arm.
I don't know if this was made partially in response to "the debate" happening on Twitter right now but mad props for keeping a level head Ian, great as always.
I think there may be a few videos coming that reinforce that Warhammer changes all the time, apropos of nothing.....
Great video, Ian!
I don't know if this is just me and my patchwork quilt approach to how I've put my dark angels together over the years, but dark angels could be seen as this sort of hybrid between white scars, space wolves and black templars, at least insofar as how i have gone about decorating my models using a lot rescued/repurposed black templars and space wolves models to add some bling to my veterans and such, so that's sort of the vibe i get from them now, at least.
In other words, the way i go about it, both the ravenwing and deathwing in particular push the more native american/white scars+space wolves style while the greenwing push more the knightly order/black templar style, and in doing so they avoid looking like they are some sort of second founding chapter of any of those chapters in the process.
Keep up the quality work! Cheers!
P.s. i am aware that white scars are more like Mongols and space wolves are vikings and not the same thing as native american tribes of course, and arguably space wolves aren't too different either to pass off for white scars since you could have space wolves with a slightly more eastern flavour, and be more russian than Scandinavian for example(i kinda wouldn't mind trying my hand at turning space wolves into white scars as some future project come to think of it) but at some level those cultures have certain similarities in their aesthetics, so that's why i mentioned them with regards to how i view dark angels since they may be the closest thing available in terms of aesthetics if you want to represent that native american style, barring custom 3d printed bits or something to that effect, of course.
Have to say I prefer the native American look to the secretive knight order one - also brings them closer to the Emperor's identity (retrospectively). I don't know if the Emperor being born in Anatolia is still lore-accurate but it should really have been retconned to North America. Also, am I the only one who prefers old-school biker squats to the more fantasy-dwarfish style of the Leagues of Votann and 2nd Ed. squats?
Hope there's more interesting lore evolutions that you can do for other Legions!
The emperor is still born in Anatolia or at least the middle east, at about the time civilisation got started. Not sure if he has any link to north America particularly.
You're not the only one that prefers the old squat look.
@@ArbitorIan I mean how the Emperor is very much coded native American in his look, so it would make sense if he was born there.
@@darthcheese7971 Glad to hear it ;-)
Dark Angels brother Pacino might be my all time favorite bit of 40k history
What an interesting bit of 40k history. Honestly, you have to give it to GW for how they've handled the lore. With how everything is mysterious, heretical, or downright hearsay, they always have a way to explain away almost anything they want to change. Case in point; the apocryphal tales as stories for new initiates. Great stuff.
That original Deathwing expansion story is burned into my memories. Its one of the first really in-depth background stories that I encountered that really gave a flavour of the character of the models in the game and brought them to life.
I adored that Deathwing story and still do. It inspired a young me to find a culture to base my own army on and devour any book on the subject I could find.
The Suns of Tlotec were born for 2nd Ed's release. Wish I still had my army and notebooks on them.😢
The short story of the Dark Angels returning to a plains world, finding out that it's got genestealers and painting their terminator armour bone white to cleanse the taint of the xenos is such a great little bit of old Warhammer. Even if it's not canon
Two Heads Talking is the best 40K Librarian name ever.
So glad you did a video on this. The Native American Deathwing models and stories was one of my earliest memories of 40k. Also interesting timing with new Kroot army box and the clearly Native American influencing going on with their new range.
The Deathwing short story was really what attracted me to Dark Angels in the first place. I still try to include the Plains People theme in every Dark Angels army that I make.
I fell in love with Bill Kings story when i got the Deathwing Expansion. I like to think that culture is still present in the DA as one of their tithe worlds.
I always assumed the green thing was because black armour was highlighted with green when painting, and then it took over as the main color scheme.
This happens a lot - Beast in the X-Men was orginally black or grey with blue as the highlight color, and over time this moved to him being actually blue.
I’d love to see Luetin try to explain this “not a retcon”.
I hit peak Warhammer around 1990 and I remember the Deathwing expansion well. I spent hours copying the pencil sketches of the Native American-inspired Terminators. Thanks for the vid, as always.
I really fell in love with the dark angels over the last year. I will alwayls love my blood boys and night lords, but this year its dark angels for me.
I remember reading it first in the Deathwing short story anthology. Did not realise the origins in the expansion rulebook. Had a set of the '93 terminators back in the day, and the artificer armoured captain.
The static image of Ian with the VO at the start is so jarring 😂
There was also a Dark angels comic called: Deathwing the tale of two heads talking. It has the native american theme
Lovely video!
Best 40k channel on the webs
I created a whole successor chapter as my 40K army called The Cloudrunners I loved the native theme so much 😍
It would be sick to get a monster hunting detachment that channels their origins on Caliban
"Swords, robes, knightly helmets... Catholic stuff, you get the idea."
GOD I love this channel so much. 🤣🤣
I like this type of meta-analysis of war hammer 40k.
Wow I've played 40k since 3rd edition and therefore I didn't know about the native american roots of the Dark angels. 😅
A real shame GW never re-used cultures like that in their lore, for Space marine worlds or imperial guard regiments.
Killer video once more, Ian. Thanks. 😄
I have a theory that the plains world the DA’s recruit from in 40K is one of the archeologies created before the destruction of Caliban in 30K
I owned that Dark Angel Captain with the Feathers and Cape attached to the backpack, don't know why considering my Marine Army has always been the Sons of Fenris
Great vid
From first reading it as a kid I always thought the story was about the world where those particular marines were “recruited” from, rather than it being the Dark Angels home world. So they retained their heritage, rather than being fully indoctrinated, which also works for a knightly order… and adds a level of commentary on religious orders’ interactions with indigenous communities 😬
Really good story!
SPACE HULK lore and history would be a mad video
This was great. I knew about the lion getting his name from the old poet but wasn't familiar with all the native American lore/obscurity. Thanks Ian!
I learned something new from this.
Death wing box gives me an abnormal amount of anxiety with all that plastic crack.
Hopefully they push the native american themes to the front more with another chapter like Ravenguard
Hopefully GW get some input from experts in the many and varied cultures of North America; rather than from watching Last of the Mohicans and Pocahontas.
A well research Chapter based around one of the South American cultures could be really cool too.
@@euansmith3699 Yeah that would be great
I’d prefer if they didn’t honestly. I can’t imagine it being handled in a way that could be justifiable.
Now it makes sense as to why the Emperor always has that Native American vibe
It's not Native American but one of the Raven Guard successor chapters - the Carcharodons - have an aesthetic heavily based upon Maori culture.
I had no idea, thank you.
Living through this change must have been so WEIRD.
I mean, I was alive for basically all of it, but I was super super young.
I remember reading an old White Dwarf as a kid where there were images of the native Americans inspired Necromunda gang (Ratlings? Or are they the hobbit snipers? Rat-something) converted into Dark Angel scouts to tie in with their background at the time
Ratskin Renegades!
Never was a Dark Angels fan myself, but have been playing since Rouge Trader days and picked up lore along the way. I thought the Native American themes on the Deathwing were still canon. The Dark Angels are homed on the Rock which is just a floating fortress, they get their recruits as other fleet based chapters get theirs, from recruitment worlds, the plains world was/is just one of the recruitment worlds, and the events that played out still happened, the visual changes are kept as a mark of honor for the sacrifice the 1st company made to protect the people of the world.
I might have the timeline wrong with this but I’m sure I remember reading an article in Whitedwarf about painting terminators. The painter decided upon the white colour scheme and Native American tropes as their own idea. I thought the the stories and lore were written to follow this artistic choice because they look cool and gave flavour to the chapter.
Of course this is my memory of nearly 40 years ago so might be faulty!
What a more interesting version of the Dark Angels this would have been if they ran with it and fleshed it out instead of choosing for them to be Arthurian.
Maybe, I also think the somewhat Native American part of the Deathwing makes them stand out further amongst the Arthurian Dark Angels. And besides, Knights are cool.
@@Sanguinary797 I think merging the concepts would have been the coolest. Like have Caliban's culture be inspired by the Tlingit or something and then have the teran side be Old Alba Arthurian knights. You could do a lot with that.
Such a shame that the Native American theme of the chapter was eventually dropped in favour of yet another generic white European warrior culture.
From the looks of it, not only was the original background handled with an astounding amount of sensitivity and respect by old-school GW - especially considering this was the same team that thought ‘Ork’s Drift’ and Fantasy’s ‘Pygmies’ were a good idea - but it actually gave positive Native American representation into a (let’s face it) _still_ mostly-white 40K universe. Hell, even the Salamanders have been retconned of ethnic representation over the decades, from just being a chapter of mostly black marines into charcoal-skinned, red-eyed caricatures of their former selves.
That does it, when I eventually get a Dark Angels killteam, I’m going to depict them as a successor chapter that pays tribute to this old lore and are basically Native American marines.
Dunno, they probably went for the "noble savage" trope, which has its problems.
Nowadays with a bigger staff and wider influences I think GW could make a cool native American inspired chapter.
@@Yurt_enthusiast7 Oh, I'm not denying that. Keep in mind I was only calling it respectful _by early-90's GW standards,_ because even the 'noble savage' stereotype is far more respectful than 'ooga booga fat lips and pot bellies with leaves and sticks'. Hell, at the time the concept was invented, the 'noble savage' was considered a progressive and respectful way of approaching the culture and history of the First Nations, however condescending and patronising it is in hindsight. I can only imagine how much of what we consider to be 'progressive' today would be rejected in the future as archaically offensive and disrespectful. I didn't get a bad vibe off this old lore or art, and even with those stumbling steps of (likely unintentional) prejudice, I agree that it could've been the start of something better.
@Mr_Bunk oh no worries, I wasn't intending to accuse you of anything. "Noble savage" is just often missed when encountered in texts.
I as well believe it wasn't written with malicious intent. Those highly educated nerds who created early warhammer lore probably thought they made it ridiculous enough to "counter" these stereotypes they portrayed. Nowadays it's not how we see it but who knows in the future.
@@Yurt_enthusiast7 Sorry, I didn't intend for you to think I was responding defensively. If anything, I thank you for pointing out the flaw in that original lore which I initially failed to address, and perhaps I should've made that clearer in my reply.
still my favourite dark angles lore
mad props to Kevin Hagan 🙌🙌
It is also the reason for why the First recruit from several worlds instead of just one and that most of those are either tribal or that similar to Caliban.
While yess the HH book has brought in the bone colouring for the deathwing companions theres still room for the Plains world story for all of the armour being painted which just adds to the DA flavour as a whole.
While yes the general theme of the story is to high light that the enemy can come from within and self sacrifice it is also one of hope and to remember your past and honour your oaths.
It would be great if GW offically retouched on this with even a snippet of text to say that the world is still used by the DA today or what would be even better if we could get a more Native American themed successor chapter directly tied to this.