I've long felt that the British citizenship test should include transiting between two rooms through a single narrow access door. Those who automatically form an orderly queue continue to the next stage...
Montego Bay Jamaica. I, in full air line pilot uniform and kit, go into the “crew line” which they were allowing passengers to also use, for a flight I was operating, and escorted to the front of the queue when an irate British passenger throws my bag off the security scanner yelling “THE QUEUE MATE, THE F’NG QUEUE!” As he pushed passed me I took his bag off and mine back on, notified security who now detained said passenger! 😅. Oh how I wish he was on my flight! 😅. He was not. But I walked to my gate with him still shouting at Jamaican security! 😂
Here's the problem. He's in another country, and things don't always work the same in other parts of the world. He said it's his first time at the airport. So he needed to consider the possibility that this might be somewhat common here and not everyone else who flies into this airport feels the same way that he does about it. In other words he's not going to single-handedly change the culture or procedures at an airport, and certainly not an entire country. That doesn't mean he was necessarily wrong in his opinion that what happened was rude, unprofessional, or all of the above. But the incident was essentially over, venting on the radio accomplishes nothing at that point. He will never meet the other pilot, it's a total stranger. Odds are he will never even pass within a thousand miles of that pilot again. He can curse all he wants to inside his cockpit. Or write an op-ed in an airline magazine decrying the methods at this airport. But going onto the air to vent a grievance, when there was no longer a safety issue (if there had even been one) was unprofessional. If he felt that it was a safety issue then he should file a report, which he said that he would do. Although likely it would be investigated and determined that there was no safety issue. But at least he would have put in his two cents in a more productive way that might have at least a chance of having an influence.
@@jcrosby4804 Thinking you're immune to reading. "I, in full air line pilot uniform and kit, go into the 'crew line' which they were allowing passengers to also use..." - it was obvious who he was and why he needed to get through and board to prep the flight for passengers. Passengers like the arse yelling about the queue, or even you for instance. Who would then be screaming about how long it was taking for the plane to take off because the Pilot hadn't gotten started on his preflight earlier.
As a Brit, I can confirm the Virgin pilot's reaction was very British. He probably took a deep disapproving sigh and mentioned some choice words to his colleague before the radio conversation, but it is a very British thing to just wait in line and watch things unfold and then stew about it for a few hours after
Very professional class British response... and most Americans do not understand understatement. As someone who has worked with Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, and Canadians, there are verbal cues that tell those in the know that the speaker is actually holding back a rather strong negative opinion of the events.
@@chemech I would argue that most Americans know, but the ones like in this clip don't care. We're more vocal and 'aggressive' in general, and some segment seem to take non-response or a non-confrontational response as allowance to continue being a-holes. Not much different than most cultures, just louder about it.
Yes, I did say myself that British queuing culture is such that the Virgin pilot may have simply assumed that the pushback would halt so he could go back of course, and nothing needed to be said over the radio. Then, was shocked that they just continued.
As an aircraft mechanic of nearly 30 years, I've always been taught that in this kind of situation, moving aircraft ALWAYS have the right of way. Regardless of whether the ramp is controlled or not. The tug driver and ground crew were the ones most at fault.
Now, that sounds more like how it should be! Makes no sense to push back into someone already taxiing, they will delay them a lot more than this. SW pilots did an Ahole move here IMHO. Other than that, I don´t see why pushback shouldn´t be up to the GC? Pilots have no idea what´s behind them...
@@olenilsen4660 Pushbacks are under the purview of Ground Control. Pilots request a pushback and Ground Control gives them authorization. Pilots then signal the ground crew that they're clear by ground control. It's then the responsibility of the ground crew to ensure that there aren't any obstructions or potential obstructions.
Hey Kelsey, I just came back from a work trip where I had to fly for the first time over 20 years but I've been watching your videos and I know they helped me feel a lot more comfortable! Thank you for your videos!!
The whole concept of RAMP not part of control of ground controller responsibility (typical US airport) or RAMP is uncontrol (in this case), this is a very North American thing... You almost never see this in any international airport outside of the North America... It is absolutely a stupid idea. Just a sloppy setup... I guess blame the FAA.
Yes, expert at CGI - those jets and the cities he pretends to fly to are very realistic 😂Almost as good as NASA's CGI 'Globe Earth' and ISS videos. 🤣🤣🤣
I'm an American, but respect the Virgin pilot's feelings about someone cutting in front of them in line. An uncontrolled ramp seems like a saftey hazard and not something a Heathrow based flight crew is accustomed to. As a Chicagoan, I couldn't imagine O'Hare or Midway having such a setup. The Southwest pilot's were not only rude, but were missusing the radio to further bother Virgin. From what I've learned from Kelsey, the radio is meant professional communication, not open mic comedy. Unless you are Kennedy Steve, but he was ATC and funny, j/k!
Perhaps the Southwest crew figured the Virgin pilot was NOT engaging in professional communication himself? Understand the cultural difference here: Americans are direct, and especially American men! Passive-aggressiveness is seen as a female tratit NOT a masculine trait! it is seen as indirect shaming, whether that was the intent of the Brit or not. Maybe in the UK or elsewhere, the men would have gotten into a very passive-aggressive squabble, but in America & Canada, we speak our peace directly and get the issue over with so we may go on about our day.
Shouldn't come down to your nationality, it should come down to a safely run airport. Hundreds of lives and millions of $$ worth of equipment at stake.
@@inconnu4961 well yes neither crew were engaging in professional communication but the virgin crew were not being passively aggressive they were just indirectly asking for a apology which is where the cultural difference comes in because in the UK queue jumping is highly frowned upon (and is jokingly a crime that should be punishable by death) hence why the virgin crew were asking for a apology
@@inconnu4961 "We speak our peace directly". You probably mean: "we speak our piece directly". Peace is the last possible outcome of 'the American way' as you describe it. As countless wars and the biggest military arsenal on the planet clearly demonstrate.
@@inconnu4961 A) you say passive-aggressive behavior is a female trait?? Total BS. Where the heck did you learn that? B) Who cares? Why is flying a plane a punishment size contest? C) You're an idiot. Is that direct enough for you?
I know you're feeling burned out but I just wanted to let you know how happy I am that you continue to upload. You bring a little joy to every day I watch one of your new videos. All the best, Kelsey.
As someone who was a tug driver, you get to know when another plane is ready to taxi. And as you mentioned, there are tons of things they could have done to still allow the virgin plane to taxi by. Though I do also know that there are a lot of tug drivers out there, who will purposely push their planes out to block another plane from moving. I've worked both controlled, and uncontrolled ramps, and I really hate an uncontrolled ramp, unless everyone knows and works well with each other.
And I've never worked a controlled ramp and fully agree. Uncontrolled ramps are simply uncontrolled from an ATC perspective. It then falls on the ground crews to work together, both within your own company and with those who share the gates next to you. And to be quite frank...while we wear different colors and push different tail colors, WE ARE ALL THE SAME otherwise...just the grunts doing the fun work (most of the time) and are simply working side by side each other. Yes, working together, coordinating movements between ramps and companies is NOT DIFFICULT and easily accomplished. I commented on experience in a different post. You can work together or you can make life difficult for each other. Bottom line, the companies don't suffer, the airports don't suffer...ONLY YOU and your teams suffer. There is nothing worse than fighting across the gate lines. Its just stupid. We both are doing the same job. My push breaks, yup, I went and asked WN to let me use their push to get my DL plane off the gate as I only had one on site that was big enough to push that plane type and it just broke. They gave it to me. They have used mine in the same manner. A bag falls off a cart from the bag room to the gate...I'm not going to just drive by and ignore it. So what it belongs to another airline...I'll grab it and drop it off to one of their rampers on the way to my own gate. I'd hope they will do the same. We are just the pawns on the chess board...we aren't paid enough to make the other guy's life miserable. I remember one time, I had a wing walker stumble and hurt their ankle. Clearly the push was stopped. A competing airline employee was closest to them, ran out and helped them up and to the terminal...while THEIR coworker stepped in and finished the push with us as our wing walker. THAT is how it should be in times like that...not adversarial. Leave that to the people who make the big bucks and living in air conditioning while we sweat/freeze and get rained on.
I ramped there in AUS. Even on an uncontrolled ramp, moving aircraft ALWAYS have the right of way. If Virgin truly was rolling, the southwest pushback driver should have stopped the push and waited for Virgin to clear.
@@jcrosby4804 Weather or not the SW pilots could see the Virgin is questionable. The tug driver however has no excuse. If you'd ever been at the controls of oen of these you'd know.
@@x808drifter yup, this guy pushing back is not the sharpest tool in the shed... now that being said I use to work at PIT and they were using 28R for departures and all of the United flights would push back and turn to their right to get there; on this day I saw a United A319 just sitting out on the ramp after being pushed and I couldn't wait any longer to push or we would've taken a ground delay plus it shouldnt have mattered because he wouldve had to turn to the left to reach my gate, I push out my 320 and mid push the damn United 19 decides to do a 270° turn and start coming on the taxiway behind where I'm pushing (not enough room to have 2 aircraft on it to begin with, let alone one thats sideways). I ended up stopping the aircraft and letting my flight crew know what happened, first thing out of their mouth "how close did they get" when my left wing walker came up to go disconnect I got their answer for them... if we didnt stop our push where we did then the Uniteds wingtip would've been in our tail, my wing walker said there was less than 3 meters. The captain told us to file our reports and they'd file theirs.
@@x808drifter you are correct. Once the crew pops the brakes and you start to push, its on you. Hence why you often hear "clear to push, your aircraft."
Also keep in mind, planes are meant to fly, so the crew's visibility on the ground is extremely limited. This incident is on the pushback operator in my opinion.
So appreciate how Kelsey lays out facts and explains things in ways that people like me (not a pilot) can understand. Such a gift he has. Please never stop making your videos, Kelsey. I always look forward to seeing the next one.
787 absolutely did the right. Stopped and refuse to taxi off taxi way. Which,if they did follow the tower instructions to “sidestep”, would have been dangerous for a 787-10. They asked for more info then letting them know they will be filing an occurrence report. That’s 10/10 absolutely correct and SAFEST thing to do.
Actually, I would expect a well-bred Brit pilot to simply stop and wait courteously for the aircraft on pushback, then politely inform the tower that they were now following the Southwest 737. Instead Mr. Arrogant Elite Snobbington the Third chose to make an international incident out of it as if his Limey shit didn't stink. I would love to be at the FAA office to hear them laugh at his "report". I love my friends in the UK but this guy is an international embarrassment to England. Hey, Virgin Limey - next time your country is invaded, call France for help!
The level of detail in your new animations/visuals are so, so good. Such an improvement and makes it so much clearer to follow, especially intricate taxiways etc. Keep up the good work!
I really enjoy listening to your analysis of these issues, you have a gift. I am one of those guys that has flown maybe a couple dozen always gripping my arm rests with every bit of my strength...These weekly episodes have changed my perspective and reduced my fear of flying and I would jump for joy if I knew you were piloting my plane, seriously!
Kelsey, I have to say I deeply appreciate you explaining how airports essentially work. You break it down, using the actual map / diagram of the taxiways / runways, and it makes it far easier to understand.
As a Brit who has lived in the US for 20 years, you got this right. Simple cultural difference. We are trained not to be assertive in the way you suggest. And that question, did you see us, is simply seeking the great British diffuser of tension, an apology: Oh sorry, we didn’t see you until we were moving. Shall we get out of your way? Then the reply would come back: oh no, you’re fine. We’re not in that much of a hurry.
When asked if the Southwest pilot saw the Virgin plane, Southwest replies "not until we were moving." Whereupon the Virgin pilot basically calls him a liar and threatens to file a report. Very tension diffusing. In Texas I would expect this interaction to end with gun play.
@@ant2312 Right, but asking the Southwest pilot if he saw the Virgin plane was not an attempt to diffuse tension. It was an attempt to start an argument.
@@remycallie Hi Nancy, also a Brit here. Garth is correct, with the Virgin pilots comment he was literally looking for acceptance / a sorry my bad because he obviously knew they were aware of the Virgin plane (the radio calls alone as they would be on the same Ground frequency). If he was trying to start an argument the comment would have been way more sarcastic. Jumping a line to a Brit is literally viewed as the pinnacle of rudeness. Its one of those things taught from literally the moment you learn to walk along with having a fork thrust in left hand and a knife in your right at dinner time no matter what the meal is. I've lived in the US for 20 years myself now and understand the differences but that whole thing was literally nothing more than a clash of cultures. As far as the red coat comment, that's such a dumb comment. However, the Virgin pilot responded in the way I would expect 'Grow up Gents'. It's basically the equivalent of 'Whatever!!' I also highly doubt he would have actually filed a report either. I would have loved to have heard the expletive ridden cockpit chat that was going on in the Virgin plane at the time though. It would be quite epic.
@@alanphillips4851 "He said to his friend, “If the British march By land or sea from the town to-night, Hang a lantern aloft in the belfry arch Of the North Church tower as a signal light, - One, if by land, and two, if by sea; And I on the opposite shore will be, Ready to ride and spread the alarm Through every Middlesex village and farm, That the redcoats are coming, to be up and to arms.” My son's college football team (UMass) are the "Minutemen." You always have to be ready in a minute to do battle with those redcoats. :)
I'm just really surprised that aircraft can push back without ground control clearance in an airport of this size. Uncontrolled areas seem bizarre and basically a little unsafe.
I'm an American, and an airline pilot. The Southwest pilots and tug driver were rude and arrogant. Once cleared to taxi, deviating from that clearance puts you at risk of collision or disciplinary action if something goes wrong. The Virgin pilots did the right thing to stop and query ground control if he was aware of the conflict, and to expect Southwest to act courteously.
American but not a pilot here. SW pilot behavior is bad, but it feels very American to me. Super common for people who do something wrong to not apologize and act super macho. But what surprises me is the other pilots who were independent observers backed him up. Awful.
Southwest and other commenting pilots on radio very poorly done here! Why is displaying courtesy the exception and not an ingrained part of expected behavior from people not just personally but professionally as well??? -everyone has an a$$hole, but that doesn't entitle people to go around displaying it publicly!-
As a 777/787 pilot I FULLY support the virgin crew. There is no way I would deviate from taxi lines to skip another aircraft. My wingtip clearance goes out the window. All professional pilots know the shameful reality… you hit something during taxi, it’s my fault. Every time. Even under marshalling. They absolutely did the right thing, end of.
my late father in law flew bombers in 3 wars. when he was flying B52s for strategic air command, he made a boo boo by clipping a little tiny shed that was near the taxi-way. caused wingtip damage. sometime later, IDK how long, he did it again. some time later IDK how long , he was sent to fly cargo in Viet Nam. He told me he and a bunch (7?) of pilots in his bomber group were sent because they complained when they were issued the new fiberglass helmets. he said that he needed reading glasses because of his age and that the new helmets didnt account for the glasses pushing into his temples.
Kelsey's ability to analytically dissect almost any situation never ceases to amaze. So true that it is all too easy to say things via tech that I wouldn't say face to face. God bless 🙏
@@jcrosby4804 Yes and like your average obnoxious New Yorker. Class is primarily a matter of behavior. It's not all about your job, money or education.
Great vid. There is a mistake in the captions though. When the caption reads "Go on gents", it is actually the Virgin pilot saying "Grow up gents" futher cementing the toys-out-the-pram scenario!
I had heard this exchange before but it’s the first time I get a full understanding of what happened. Good analysis and virtual rendering. Good job Kelsey, keep going, your channel is getting more and more interesting and engaging 👍🏼
Kelsey, keep doing what you do and stay awesome! No matter what anyone else here says, you're bringing a positive impact to aviation to the general public through your videos, and those who put you down are just exposing their own insecurities.
We used to share an alley with SWA in LGA. The alley was tight, so it was one in one out, and push clearance would be given to the first one who called. SWA would see our beacon come on and immediately call for push, even though their jetbridge wasn't even off yet. Regardless of how much we'd bitch, they'd keep saying they were almost ready, and would completely lock the alley down until they were ready to go. This happened more than once, so it's not like it was a one-off. I know some really great guys at SWA, but blocking people out seems like it's not uncommon for them.
Kelsey I really enjoy your channel and I think you have an incredible ability to dissect and explain things so people with no aviation smarts can understand it and one’s that do are entertained. I want to say thanks for all your hard work and especially for times when after a 4 hour delayed takeoff and 13 hour flight then a 1 hour wait for a car or ride to hotel you still have the drive to read your mail put together a video and do narration… your the man
@@whiteandnerdytuba An uncontrolled ramp is just that. It’s a non-movement area meaning not controlled by ATC. It’s simple, works well and is in use at many airports in the US. The Virgin boys need to read up on ramp procedures at AUS then they probably wouldn’t get their nose out of joint.
@@citrus737 uncontrolled ramps still have wing walkers, give right of way and are expected not to crash planes into each other. Wait until you learn how uncontrolled runways work
Your statement about being polite at every opportunity is the central truth sir. My father, as an RAAF Group Captain. had always made that clear when conveyed to me. As a long term Medical Officer, it helped my understanding of talking in important situations. Not everything is easy.
My husband is from Japan and his politeness and willingness to always let others go ahead, had almost killed us. I’ve told him we have rules for driving and you are breaking those rules. Don’t start waving people to pass, turn, etc. You are breaking the common understanding between drivers! You are going to cause an accident. So no, being polite is not always best, and sometimes you follow the rules.
@@trishayamada807 Exactly! its about balance! My ex wife was from rural canada, so driving in the Northeast of the US was like living in the wild west. its a controlled chaos here. One must learn when to be gracious and when to be assertive. it does take time, though.
My late uncle was a 747 captain and instructor. He always said professional courtesy is an essential part of flying. Southwest's response was unprofessional and an embarrassment. They should have given way to the taxing aircraft especially when you have a fully loaded 787 bound for a 9 hour or more flight. The aviation field is about teamwork and respect regardless of who you work for or what you fly. If this happened at London Heathrow, I am certain that this would have been investigated immediately. What is concerning is the air traffic controllers sidestep recommendation. This is why it is important to have them do familiarization flights so they can understand the other side of the microphone and what it entails. if Austin airport wants to seriously upgrade to the international market, then they need to address the uncontrolled ramp period.
I totally agree, it’s American arrogance at its worse. I am an American who has lived on Europe and have seen it before. It’s totally unnecessary. Don’t like it!
He couldn't been more professional and less rude about it though. He got the shit talking he deserved then all of a sudden didn't want to play ball anymore after he initiated it
I'm not a Brit or a pilot, but I completely understand the Virgin pilots' reaction. Even aside from rudeness or fairness, it feels like a safety hazard if a 737 gets pulled out right in front of another jetliner without warning despite being on the move on a cleared path. Even if a sidestep could have clearly worked, the airport should have made it clear that the Virgin pilots could do that BEFORE a plane was suddenly pulled out in front of them.
As a paying passenger who is relying on the professionalism of the pilots to get me safely to my destination I would expect them to display professionalism to each other also.
@@robertsears8323 I guess you didn't watch the video? If I communicated like that in my office on site, I would get a call from HR with the possibility of getting fired. I guess Southwest corporate just don't care as there have been many other incidents of Southwest pilots be extremely rude and unprofessional.
@@TexasCat99 If we are going to go that far...I guess he himself could be AI. Those human replicas are getting pretty good these days. We need to send Rick Dekard to investigate! 🤣
Thanks for the upload! My family surprised me this morning and took me out for a birthday breakfast! And like Kelsey...I'm not going to turn down a free/paid for breakfast! HAHA! I agree that the banter between the pilots was uncalled for. No need to be rude! Have a great week everyone!
Great analysis 74 Gear. I had watched and listened to this interaction previously, but it is great to hear the perspective of a professional pilot. We all thank you!!
This is 100% on the flight dispatcher/tug driver. They are the ones with the eyes on ground and should have not initiated the pushback maneouver. If there were any incident, they would most probably be responsible for it. Southwest pilots could get off by just saying: "We didn't saw it from the cockpit, the dispatcher is the one responsible for the safe pushback and making sure there are no obstacles."
ye but you got to realise that the pushback drivers are given the okay from the cockpit (who got the okay from atc) to push back meaninf that in their head they would’ve just thought that the virgin was suppose to hold and wait for the pushback and the southwest pilot heard that the atc told them to side step them so tbh if the pushback drivers had coms this all wouldn’t have happened very unprofessional
I don’t know how it is in the US but the Virgin aircraft had clear priority. He’s taxiing under his own power, the other one is still controlled by the tug. But then I operate on a controlled ramp so I don’t have to worry about random aircraft going everywhere.
Yeah, shouldn't a plane in motion always have priority? The Southwest pilots wouldn't necessarily have seen the Virgin but the tug driver really should have and should've yielded.
They'll just be like "that water bottle was CGI, Kelly is actually an animator from Pixar who failed as a pilot as a kid and wasn't able to let it go" 😂
@@hawaiianetops9566 LOL but actually he seems pretty easygoing and doesn't complain about things, other than some minor grumbling if the snack assortment is limited.
When those people make that comment about him, not being a real pilot, they just ignorant. Whether you’re a pilot, copilot the word pilot is in both of them for a reason. Good job, Kelsey, and thank you for your time and your effort to make these videos.
I have to admit, love your humor! As a 78 FO I will say, our auto dual engine starts and short checklist speeds up the time to get rolling on the ramp. We don’t block long. Pity the man sitting behind a 737 Max starting both engines (Leap 1B engines take FOREVER to start due to shaft harmonic requirements)
I'm not a pilot, but this to me seems like an accident waiting to happen. I can't believe there isn't a protocol for this. It seems ridiculous to me to allow planes to just push back in front of moving plane. Surely, either a plane taxiing should have priority OR a plane being pushed should have priority. Then situations like this wouldn't occur.
As a Brit who is ground crew at an airport in the UK, I was shocked to see the Southwest push in front of the taxiing Virgin aircraft! In the UK our regulations (SERA) state that a vehicle towing an aircraft shall give way to a taxiing aircraft. This is regardless of the aerodrome being controlled or uncontrolled. It might be different in Texas, but if I pushed an aircraft in front of a taxiing aircraft I'd be sacked immediately.
Some translation notes from a Brit. What you call "crying" we call "polite" and what you call "assertive" we call "rude". In our culture it's rude to directly tell someone what to do. It's politer to hint. Daft maybe, but that's the way we are wired. And if you do what appears to be the plane equivalent of pulling your car out of a side road in front of someone who was already coming down the main road, causing them to have brake to avoid hitting you, and they say, "Did you see me before pulling out?" that's a passive-aggressive way of them saying, "Fuck you for just pulling out in front of me and forcing me to slam on the brakes!" Basically, I think our cultures have a very different way of communicating. (Not saying that one is better than the other).
And as others have mentioned, we really, really, really hate queue jumping. If we had as many guns as you guys do, the number one reason for people getting shot would likely be because someone jumped a queue.
Good analysis, particularly re the cultural differences. The 'redcoats' reference from the Southwest pilot was completely unprofessional when being an airline pilot communicating on a frequency. Brits, like Australians and NZers and other first world Commonwealth countries absolutely despise queue jumping. Different cultures indeed, and the reference to Redcoats was completely unnecessary and inflammatory. Sounds like Austin TX need ramp control via the tower...it is a busy airport.
Its not just cultural difference between US and Brits. Im dutch and we have the same thing. Imo applies to most countries and definately to western Europe. Want to get beaten up? Jump a que and the entire que will be ready to let you have it. Its NOT done. Doesnt matter where or which situation Im guessing its still some leftover BS in US culture ( by lack of a better word, bc the US doesnt really have a culture) from the wild west times. Hopefully will learn some manners soon. Quite astonishing also that Kelsey doesnt get this. Talking about being 'assertive' here is complete nonsense. First of all, the word has different meanins in different languages. Up till the 80ies, we didnt even have that word, which was taken from english. But also in english the meaning varies a lot. And it was a late coming word, which means it was invented and is basically a non word. Its from the 1560ies, meaning "insisting on one's rights or authority". There is no 'right' here, as it is uncontrolled and no laws prescribed for the situation. There also is no 'authority', unless you want to argue authority derived from who had the bigger gun. Invoking that as somehow being a good thing, is idiotic. There is nothing 'assertive' here, if one party is tought not to fight, while the other party wants to fight. It doesnt reflect power or strength in any way. It only reflects who is being an Ahole and who is not. SW pilots fekked up and those remarks they made shouda made tower give them a number to call.
You might not want to say which way of communicating is better, so I will, the British way. If the Virgin aircraft had to come to a stop, then the push back had clearly created a possible hazard, which is an absolute failure of basic airmanship that involves everyone concerned, even tug drivers.
I love you seriously. I really wish I had a chance to meet you man. I have a real fear of flying but watching your videos and getting a better understanding of how airlines work from the inside perspective makes me feel a little better. Keep up the videos man
As a Brit, I fully understand the comment from the Vrigin pilot - did you see us ? It's the British way of making a point without being overly aggressive. He's making the point that the SW crew are either unprofessional (lacking professional courtesy), or unprofessional (egoistic-aggressive) in an environment that demands common respect and professionality. If no comment is made, you encourage such poor conduct to continue unchallenged. I don't think the Virgin pilot was under any illusion that the SW plane was suddenly going to develop good conduct or professional courtesy, and the remark about the redcoats was just childish and designed to irritate.
watched the whole video. You got my like when you threw your bottle towards the "really big screen" behind you! haha... love it! you should do that at the end of all videos hahah
I was driving in a small town in Alabama where my boss lived and somebody pulled out in front of me. I mentioned it to my boss later and he said something like: "we ain't in no hurry in our small town". Translation, I was the one who was in a hurry because I was mad at the guy for pulling out in front of me and slowing me down. I was bad at arguing and just shut up. Later I realized that small town people are always in a big hurry because they are always pulling out in front of me. I didn't realize until later that they do this to me because they see the out of state plates and are just being pricks.
@@jcrosby4804 Reminds me of the other Southwest pilot a couple of years ago who had a stuck mic at KSJC and was heard ranting about the "liberal f**s" in California and how "if you're not rolling coal, you have no balls." Might be a bit of the Southwest corporate culture?
I have never flown fixed wing into Austin but it is kind of the wild west when it comes to rotory wing, seems like no one is really in charge unlike most airports.
Anger degrades safety. We need to work together to remain calm and focused so that we can fly safely. Both sides tweaked each other's emotions *just before takeoff.* That's the real lesson, and Kelsey, this video is worth a spot in flight school.
I agree!! I was thinking while watching.. "Now they are emotional and plan to take off..Hopefully they don't miss any checklist items..." My flight instructors talked every flight about good decision making. If your emotional you lose your edge on that!! I realize these guys are not GA but still they are humans and we are all affected by this type of stuff..
I like that ATC audio where the British pilots are mad at the NY control tower guys, " please think about the safety" and " you guys obviously don't think about safety do you!" 😆
In reply to the Southwest pilots' taunting, what I heard from Virgin was, "Grow up, gents". Not "Go on, gents". Virgin pilot nailed it, IMO, and Casey was wildly generous to the Southwest crew.
How does telling an adult male to 'grow up' exude class & professionalism? me thinks it doesnt! Typical pettiness on par with the southwest gents, who were having NONE of it! there were no heroes in this scenario, just stylistic differences! Are you British too, or just an immature man? Grow up, George!
@@ant2312 well I could also have seen this going a whole different kind of rude when they would have been more assertive. This clip already has proven how those Southwest pilots take their liberty in high regards and how professional they can be. So with a high probability I can say that they still would have continued even if the Virgin pilots had said something and disregarded all the suggestions anyway.
aw they're just brits. Its not like they're gonna exist in 100 years anyway with the way they're going letting a bunch of foreigners come in and get free room and board and food. When you keep transfering Work energy from one group of mice to another group of mice, you'll kill off the former group and the latter group will take over. That's why there will not be brits in a couple generations. Just africans in britan land.
Kelsey, I know why Virgin asked the question after the fact: they were trying to find out if Southwest were being intentional assholes or if they were accidental assholes. I vote for the former.
@@jcrosby4804 What country are you originally from? Your immense disdain for America is incredibly un-American! Are YOU one of the Virgin pilots being discussed here?
Do whatever they want? Why do you people always go to the full extreme? But I somewhat agree. Those who don't know how to use freedom properly, don't deserve any freedom at all. Why? Because they dumb as hell.
@@norger oh I know your type. One of you a while back tried to convince me that there were violent mobs of foreigners roaming the streets of Europe when that was the talking point _du jour_ in the right-wing media bubble. Which is so post-journalism that they don't even feel the need to fact-check really easily verifiable information. I think that guy was actually convinced that he was right and probably thought my eyes were deceiving me or I was deceiving him or whatever. Maybe invisible foreigners were roaming the streets, who knows?
Loved this one, can't believe there are still people on the internet who don't believe he's an actual pilot. If he isn't he surely is one of the best actors to date.
Actually, wearing the uniform during the video can throw you off. People are thinking.."this guys In his family room making youtube vids, how tacky to present while in his working uniform, why wouldnt he just be casually dressed.? "
I'm guessing the SW pilots went on the offensive after the Virgin pilot said he was going to file a complaint against them. This reminds me of primary school when a kid says "Ah mah! I'm telling on you!" and then the usual reactions ensue.
"Telling on you" nar he sounded concerned about a health and safety issue the report was going in before he informed them it was he was just gathering information. There have been many lives lost in the past by ignorance in aviation,if the virgin pilot makes the report and it makes for a safer working environment then everyone is a winner
@@leelizington9501 i don't think this is life threatening. He sounded like he wanted to berate the controller, but when the controller exonerated himself then he was put out and looked for other avenues because things didn't go the way he expected them to
Great video again Kelsey. As a law enforcement officer I have experienced the same radio demeanor in the past. You would expect better. We don’t have it happen anymore though. About 10 years ago gps was added to our radios. The dispatcher can see which officer is keying up the radio. All that silliness stopped Again Kelsey, love what your doing. You have a great following among my fellow officers
I do not know if Americans understand the phrase 'Grow up gents'. It's a mild, but savage put down alluding to the immaturity of the recipient of the phrase. And well earned by the Southwest pilot who made the comment about freedom and redcoats, just embarrassing airmanship.
@@NinoNiemanThe1st Americans tell each other to grow up all the time (usually in the way of, "we're not kids" or something along those lines, but if someone's really straight with you, they'll just outright say, "grow up"). I think the audio was just misheard. :)
I think you're wrong about this. There is a popular phrase in England, "go on then", which I believe is what the pilot used and altered slightly to include all parties.
@@meganproffitt424 It is the use of the last word gents that changes its meaning subtly. Everyone says Grow Up but Grow Up Gents has a slightly different edge in the UK or other Commonwealth countries like Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. A bit hard to explain, and a slightly upper class phrase, and a sort of friendly but unfriendly put down....like you are annoyed, but not overly so, although you are clearly registering your annoyance. AFAIK Gents used this way is not something you hear in the US. I am with you on the audibility, I am not sure precisely what they said, although Grow Up Gents seems the most likely.
This is from some months ago and just before we had the Austin tower/South West shambles with the FedEx Heavy approaching on Cat III, sums up the level of unprofessionalism being witnessed generally in US aviation at present - a fact reflected in the recent notice from the FAA.
Thank you for breaking this incident down for us, Kelsey. Hearing what happened from the perspective of a professional working jet pilot is invaluable. I completely agree with you about the unnecessary and unproductive radio chatter. It's not exactly the same but it is analagous; I was the dispatcher for the Security & Safety and Engineering/Repair teams at a large Chicagoland hospital for five years. At any given time I had 6-12 personnel using our radios for calls, task challenges, and progress. Our shift strictly adhered to the "pertinent traffic only" model. If someone had a beef with other(s) they could express it by landline or in person but NEVER on MY airwaves; only working calls were acceptable there. We were there to do a job, not to whine, pressure, criticize, or argue in the heat of the moment. Venting could be done privately, off-air. Ar first some of my coworkers thought I was being a jerk, just wielding power. Once they got into the groove we became a well oiled machine; we outperformed the other shifts on every metric. Friendly banter was fine, they just had to take a moment before blurting out divisive crap...usually they found.that it didn't deserve airtime. We had post-shift gatherings that were fun, too, because so many of my coworkers found that if they took a moment or three to remember that we were on the same team with the same mission. It was truly bonding material. 😁
Friendly banter was fine? how did that adhere to 'pertinent traffic only'? it doesnt! So if one wanted to be Mr. Rogers on the radio, that was acceptable? LOL people LOVE to dictate other peoples emotions for them!
@@inconnu4961 When there was little traffic it was fine. Do you think shows of unconsidered emotion are productive or appropriate in the workplace? What field are you in?
Great video, Kelsey. I, personally, think the SW pilots were completely out of line and I really DO hope the Virgin pilots file a report. This world just needs a little more common curtesy; it goes a long way. 🌴☀️🌴
Southwest may have been out of line, but probably didn't like virgin's attitude at the beginning either. When people come in angry at people they gonna come back at them with childish stuff often
The Southwest pilots were right in everyway. And the just pointed out that the Brits are big babies and don't know how to do there jobs. I hope the very rude brits get wrote up and fired.
@@ericforster2970 No they were very professional in absolutely every way possible. They never said anything mean or rude. All they did was point out the fact the Virgin pilots are lazy and don't know hoe to fly or even taxi the right way.
Southwest was not rude in anyway and the brits picked a fight for no reason. They brits were just lazy and mad that someone with brains and balls was better and faster than them. The Virgin pilots needs to get there cheery popped and stop being little cry babies.
They were NOT rude for NO reason! Passive-aggressiveness is as rude as anything more direct! the fact that so many Americans have been lulled into thinking otherwise is DISTURBING! The Virgin guy was a snarky puke, while the Southwest gents were direct!
So I work on the ramp for SW. We get clearance from our pilots to push who in some airports are cleared by ground control. Others are definitely uncontrolled..However, it is ultimately the wing walkers and pushback driver to make the decision to stop. Taxing A/C have the right away as long as they are underway. Now if SW wanted to continue push, then I would have turned the plane tail right to allow the 787 to taxi by. But that is just me.
As a frequent flyer to KAUS, I know the ramp is uncontrolled and usually ground clear us around traffic in pushback. However I have to side this time with the Brits because SW pilots should have said instead that they can stop the pushback or even move forward a little bit for the 787 to clear by. I have done this once in MIA , with a Virgin 787 no less, and the crew thanked us profusely. Our aircraft is way smaller than a 787 and all we had to do was just a hard 180 so they would clear the alley between terminals J and H.
You greenscreen'd in a greenscreen. LOL! :D Nice. Yeah, agreed on those other pilots comments. They were rude. The Virgin pilot didn't need to start getting all pissy at the beginning of this, though. Maybe this is a case where no one got much sleep the night before, and no one's had enough coffee to let them deal with the world. I know me without coffee is not a pretty sight. Like tonight. Got back at 3am, gotta be at work by 9am.
Absolutely Kelsey. As a truck driver I've heard people say the most vulgar things over the CB radio that you could imagine. Things they would probably never say face to face. Radio Rambo's we used to call them. A little patience does go a long way. So does a little courtesy.
I guess I would have expected better manners from professional pilots and as an American, I will come down harder on the SW pilots. Maybe Virgin shouldn't have asked if they saw him, but the SW pilots escalated way beyond any semblance of professionalism. I have a hard time believing they didn't know they were being pushing out in front of Virgin. I think they just didn't care. So I feel they were willing to irritate that crew from the get go. If I was managing those SW pilots, we would be having a serious chat about professional manners when piloting planes full of innocent lives and millions of dollars worth of equipment. Pride is a terrible thing at times.
@@kitsuneneko2567 The SW pilot was on point... If he had stayed quiet, the Virgin pilot (apt description holy WOW) would continue acting that way. People like that need to be shown how childish/incompetent they really are, or they continue feeling empowered/justified in continuing to treat people that way. "It's called an escalation" It's called policing your own, and ensuring that your fellows don't publicly fall apart - the moment that they have to ACTUALLY maneuver the plane that they're supposedly certified to handle. And, no... I'm not going to allow anybody to pretend that Kelsey's paper, offered from a different airline, at a different time - knows more about the runway conditions than the ATC that was actually there. *For. Every. Single. Obvious. Reason.* "-already cheesed" I forgot, you always yield complete control of the runway/situation to the most-cheesed person... That's how to "professional". wtf. TLDR Watch Team America - "It takes a D to F an A" SW is the D and Virgin is the A. And allowing a supposed pilot to continue acting that way, is unequivocally unprofessional. (Throwing tantrums because he literally can't steer a plane, unless it's on a yellow line... He *_literally_* has less agency, self-awareness and maneuvering competence than freaking Roomba. "professional" ) Very. Simple.
Like your videos. I am a former RAF pilot and Airside Escort at YVR. We NEVER talked to anybody except ATC. Was a golden rule. Except, "Pan, pan, pan! Aircraft on finals, stand bye to overshoot. Vehicle attempting to enter the runway, Escort 528.". Was me, 3am, chasing a contractor at high speed, flashing my lights, sounding horn, foot to the floor.....had been sitting, engine idling, waiting for this type of thing. Got a pat on the back from the ASO later! (Mostly highly competent women driving 4WDs crammed with electronics.)
Context: in Britain queue jumping is among the worst crimes a human being can commit.
I've long felt that the British citizenship test should include transiting between two rooms through a single narrow access door. Those who automatically form an orderly queue continue to the next stage...
Montego Bay Jamaica. I, in full air line pilot uniform and kit, go into the “crew line” which they were allowing passengers to also use, for a flight I was operating, and escorted to the front of the queue when an irate British passenger throws my bag off the security scanner yelling “THE QUEUE MATE, THE F’NG QUEUE!” As he pushed passed me I took his bag off and mine back on, notified security who now detained said passenger! 😅. Oh how I wish he was on my flight! 😅. He was not. But I walked to my gate with him still shouting at Jamaican security! 😂
Here's the problem. He's in another country, and things don't always work the same in other parts of the world. He said it's his first time at the airport. So he needed to consider the possibility that this might be somewhat common here and not everyone else who flies into this airport feels the same way that he does about it. In other words he's not going to single-handedly change the culture or procedures at an airport, and certainly not an entire country.
That doesn't mean he was necessarily wrong in his opinion that what happened was rude, unprofessional, or all of the above. But the incident was essentially over, venting on the radio accomplishes nothing at that point. He will never meet the other pilot, it's a total stranger. Odds are he will never even pass within a thousand miles of that pilot again. He can curse all he wants to inside his cockpit. Or write an op-ed in an airline magazine decrying the methods at this airport. But going onto the air to vent a grievance, when there was no longer a safety issue (if there had even been one) was unprofessional. If he felt that it was a safety issue then he should file a report, which he said that he would do. Although likely it would be investigated and determined that there was no safety issue. But at least he would have put in his two cents in a more productive way that might have at least a chance of having an influence.
Not only in Britain. In Australia queue jumping is also regarded as being worthy of a public flogging.
@@jcrosby4804 Thinking you're immune to reading. "I, in full air line pilot uniform and kit, go into the 'crew line' which they were allowing passengers to also use..." - it was obvious who he was and why he needed to get through and board to prep the flight for passengers. Passengers like the arse yelling about the queue, or even you for instance. Who would then be screaming about how long it was taking for the plane to take off because the Pilot hadn't gotten started on his preflight earlier.
What a title that is
😂
They're living up to their name 😂
Going to admit I initially thought this was going to be a different kind of video based on the title
😂😂😂
Haha you guys good point😅😅😅❤
As a Brit, I can confirm the Virgin pilot's reaction was very British. He probably took a deep disapproving sigh and mentioned some choice words to his colleague before the radio conversation, but it is a very British thing to just wait in line and watch things unfold and then stew about it for a few hours after
Also a Brit (English) I was about to say similar. A very British passive-aggressive way of calling the yank a nob.
Very professional class British response... and most Americans do not understand understatement.
As someone who has worked with Brits, Aussies, Kiwis, and Canadians, there are verbal cues that tell those in the know that the speaker is actually holding back a rather strong negative opinion of the events.
@@chemech I would argue that most Americans know, but the ones like in this clip don't care. We're more vocal and 'aggressive' in general, and some segment seem to take non-response or a non-confrontational response as allowance to continue being a-holes. Not much different than most cultures, just louder about it.
He 100% did this.. I can hear it now.
“Why are they pushing back when they clearly saw us, typical southwest pilots…… Go on gents”
Yes, I did say myself that British queuing culture is such that the Virgin pilot may have simply assumed that the pushback would halt so he could go back of course, and nothing needed to be said over the radio. Then, was shocked that they just continued.
As an aircraft mechanic of nearly 30 years, I've always been taught that in this kind of situation, moving aircraft ALWAYS have the right of way. Regardless of whether the ramp is controlled or not. The tug driver and ground crew were the ones most at fault.
Now, that sounds more like how it should be! Makes no sense to push back into someone already taxiing, they will delay them a lot more than this. SW pilots did an Ahole move here IMHO.
Other than that, I don´t see why pushback shouldn´t be up to the GC? Pilots have no idea what´s behind them...
@@olenilsen4660 Pushbacks are under the purview of Ground Control. Pilots request a pushback and Ground Control gives them authorization. Pilots then signal the ground crew that they're clear by ground control. It's then the responsibility of the ground crew to ensure that there aren't any obstructions or potential obstructions.
@@stephencavanaugh8377 he said in this case it was an uncontrolled ramp. So I'm guessing that they didn't have to request a pushback.
An uncontrolled ramp for large airliners really sounds like a stupid idea.
Yes, if timings had been slightly different there could have been a collision.
Probably staffing shortage
Hey Kelsey, I just came back from a work trip where I had to fly for the first time over 20 years but I've been watching your videos and I know they helped me feel a lot more comfortable! Thank you for your videos!!
freedumb!
The whole concept of RAMP not part of control of ground controller responsibility (typical US airport) or RAMP is uncontrol (in this case), this is a very North American thing... You almost never see this in any international airport outside of the North America... It is absolutely a stupid idea. Just a sloppy setup... I guess blame the FAA.
Absolutely love the green screen bit at the end! What a way to embrace your critics. Well done Kelsey!
hey can you tug us out of the way🤣🤣🤣
Yeah that CGI bottle looked so real! 😆
@@Fr4nR now all it needs is some CGI poop inside it and yeah the perfect CGI scene if I do say so myself🤣
Yes, expert at CGI - those jets and the cities he pretends to fly to are very realistic 😂Almost as good as NASA's CGI 'Globe Earth' and ISS videos. 🤣🤣🤣
I'm an American, but respect the Virgin pilot's feelings about someone cutting in front of them in line. An uncontrolled ramp seems like a saftey hazard and not something a Heathrow based flight crew is accustomed to. As a Chicagoan, I couldn't imagine O'Hare or Midway having such a setup. The Southwest pilot's were not only rude, but were missusing the radio to further bother Virgin. From what I've learned from Kelsey, the radio is meant professional communication, not open mic comedy. Unless you are Kennedy Steve, but he was ATC and funny, j/k!
Perhaps the Southwest crew figured the Virgin pilot was NOT engaging in professional communication himself? Understand the cultural difference here: Americans are direct, and especially American men! Passive-aggressiveness is seen as a female tratit NOT a masculine trait! it is seen as indirect shaming, whether that was the intent of the Brit or not. Maybe in the UK or elsewhere, the men would have gotten into a very passive-aggressive squabble, but in America & Canada, we speak our peace directly and get the issue over with so we may go on about our day.
Shouldn't come down to your nationality, it should come down to a safely run airport.
Hundreds of lives and millions of $$ worth of equipment at stake.
@@inconnu4961 well yes neither crew were engaging in professional communication but the virgin crew were not being passively aggressive they were just indirectly asking for a apology which is where the cultural difference comes in because in the UK queue jumping is highly frowned upon (and is jokingly a crime that should be punishable by death) hence why the virgin crew were asking for a apology
@@inconnu4961 "We speak our peace directly". You probably mean: "we speak our piece directly". Peace is the last possible outcome of 'the American way' as you describe it. As countless wars and the biggest military arsenal on the planet clearly demonstrate.
@@inconnu4961 A) you say passive-aggressive behavior is a female trait?? Total BS. Where the heck did you learn that? B) Who cares? Why is flying a plane a punishment size contest? C)
You're an idiot. Is that direct enough for you?
"out of interest" is the british way of saying hey asshole....
I know you're feeling burned out but I just wanted to let you know how happy I am that you continue to upload. You bring a little joy to every day I watch one of your new videos. All the best, Kelsey.
Hear hear.
Good words! I love Kelsey's vids :)
Agreed. I live for these on Sunday mornings. Have a few aviation subscriptions on YT. Never miss this one.
Couldn't agree more 💜
ABSOLUTELY ! ! !
🙂😎👍
As someone who was a tug driver, you get to know when another plane is ready to taxi. And as you mentioned, there are tons of things they could have done to still allow the virgin plane to taxi by. Though I do also know that there are a lot of tug drivers out there, who will purposely push their planes out to block another plane from moving. I've worked both controlled, and uncontrolled ramps, and I really hate an uncontrolled ramp, unless everyone knows and works well with each other.
I think the lesson here is simple, Don't be an asshole. As a tug driver, you have ultimate control in that situation. Safety first.
As a tug driver myself , i would just tell the flightdeck standby you got a plane behind you if i saw it
@@alex-cj9mbsame or I ask them to do a courtesy call if I'm unsure
Oh yeah? We're gonna file that comment.
And I've never worked a controlled ramp and fully agree. Uncontrolled ramps are simply uncontrolled from an ATC perspective. It then falls on the ground crews to work together, both within your own company and with those who share the gates next to you. And to be quite frank...while we wear different colors and push different tail colors, WE ARE ALL THE SAME otherwise...just the grunts doing the fun work (most of the time) and are simply working side by side each other.
Yes, working together, coordinating movements between ramps and companies is NOT DIFFICULT and easily accomplished. I commented on experience in a different post. You can work together or you can make life difficult for each other. Bottom line, the companies don't suffer, the airports don't suffer...ONLY YOU and your teams suffer.
There is nothing worse than fighting across the gate lines. Its just stupid. We both are doing the same job. My push breaks, yup, I went and asked WN to let me use their push to get my DL plane off the gate as I only had one on site that was big enough to push that plane type and it just broke. They gave it to me. They have used mine in the same manner. A bag falls off a cart from the bag room to the gate...I'm not going to just drive by and ignore it. So what it belongs to another airline...I'll grab it and drop it off to one of their rampers on the way to my own gate. I'd hope they will do the same. We are just the pawns on the chess board...we aren't paid enough to make the other guy's life miserable.
I remember one time, I had a wing walker stumble and hurt their ankle. Clearly the push was stopped. A competing airline employee was closest to them, ran out and helped them up and to the terminal...while THEIR coworker stepped in and finished the push with us as our wing walker. THAT is how it should be in times like that...not adversarial. Leave that to the people who make the big bucks and living in air conditioning while we sweat/freeze and get rained on.
I ramped there in AUS. Even on an uncontrolled ramp, moving aircraft ALWAYS have the right of way. If Virgin truly was rolling, the southwest pushback driver should have stopped the push and waited for Virgin to clear.
Forget that America first always. f the freedom hatting brits.
@@jcrosby4804 Weather or not the SW pilots could see the Virgin is questionable. The tug driver however has no excuse. If you'd ever been at the controls of oen of these you'd know.
@@x808drifter yup, this guy pushing back is not the sharpest tool in the shed... now that being said I use to work at PIT and they were using 28R for departures and all of the United flights would push back and turn to their right to get there; on this day I saw a United A319 just sitting out on the ramp after being pushed and I couldn't wait any longer to push or we would've taken a ground delay plus it shouldnt have mattered because he wouldve had to turn to the left to reach my gate, I push out my 320 and mid push the damn United 19 decides to do a 270° turn and start coming on the taxiway behind where I'm pushing (not enough room to have 2 aircraft on it to begin with, let alone one thats sideways). I ended up stopping the aircraft and letting my flight crew know what happened, first thing out of their mouth "how close did they get" when my left wing walker came up to go disconnect I got their answer for them... if we didnt stop our push where we did then the Uniteds wingtip would've been in our tail, my wing walker said there was less than 3 meters. The captain told us to file our reports and they'd file theirs.
@@x808drifter you are correct. Once the crew pops the brakes and you start to push, its on you. Hence why you often hear "clear to push, your aircraft."
Also keep in mind, planes are meant to fly, so the crew's visibility on the ground is extremely limited. This incident is on the pushback operator in my opinion.
So appreciate how Kelsey lays out facts and explains things in ways that people like me (not a pilot) can understand. Such a gift he has. Please never stop making your videos, Kelsey. I always look forward to seeing the next one.
He says the same thing a dozen times.
787 absolutely did the right. Stopped and refuse to taxi off taxi way. Which,if they did follow the tower instructions to “sidestep”, would have been dangerous for a 787-10. They asked for more info then letting them know they will be filing an occurrence report. That’s 10/10 absolutely correct and SAFEST thing to do.
Actually, I would expect a well-bred Brit pilot to simply stop and wait courteously for the aircraft on pushback, then politely inform the tower that they were now following the Southwest 737. Instead Mr. Arrogant Elite Snobbington the Third chose to make an international incident out of it as if his Limey shit didn't stink. I would love to be at the FAA office to hear them laugh at his "report". I love my friends in the UK but this guy is an international embarrassment to England. Hey, Virgin Limey - next time your country is invaded, call France for help!
The level of detail in your new animations/visuals are so, so good. Such an improvement and makes it so much clearer to follow, especially intricate taxiways etc. Keep up the good work!
Its Microsoft flight simulator 2020 lol
I really enjoy listening to your analysis of these issues, you have a gift. I am one of those guys that has flown maybe a couple dozen always gripping my arm rests with every bit of my strength...These weekly episodes have changed my perspective and reduced my fear of flying and I would jump for joy if I knew you were piloting my plane, seriously!
Nicely said!
Mentor pilot too!
Kelsey channel rules🤙
Kelsey, I have to say I deeply appreciate you explaining how airports essentially work. You break it down, using the actual map / diagram of the taxiways / runways, and it makes it far easier to understand.
As a Brit who has lived in the US for 20 years, you got this right. Simple cultural difference. We are trained not to be assertive in the way you suggest. And that question, did you see us, is simply seeking the great British diffuser of tension, an apology: Oh sorry, we didn’t see you until we were moving. Shall we get out of your way? Then the reply would come back: oh no, you’re fine. We’re not in that much of a hurry.
When asked if the Southwest pilot saw the Virgin plane, Southwest replies "not until we were moving." Whereupon the Virgin pilot basically calls him a liar and threatens to file a report. Very tension diffusing. In Texas I would expect this interaction to end with gun play.
@@remycallie Thats because the South West pilot was lying and I hope the Virgin pilot did file a report and the South West pilot gets a reprimand
@@ant2312 Right, but asking the Southwest pilot if he saw the Virgin plane was not an attempt to diffuse tension. It was an attempt to start an argument.
@@remycallie Hi Nancy, also a Brit here. Garth is correct, with the Virgin pilots comment he was literally looking for acceptance / a sorry my bad because he obviously knew they were aware of the Virgin plane (the radio calls alone as they would be on the same Ground frequency). If he was trying to start an argument the comment would have been way more sarcastic. Jumping a line to a Brit is literally viewed as the pinnacle of rudeness. Its one of those things taught from literally the moment you learn to walk along with having a fork thrust in left hand and a knife in your right at dinner time no matter what the meal is. I've lived in the US for 20 years myself now and understand the differences but that whole thing was literally nothing more than a clash of cultures. As far as the red coat comment, that's such a dumb comment. However, the Virgin pilot responded in the way I would expect 'Grow up Gents'. It's basically the equivalent of 'Whatever!!' I also highly doubt he would have actually filed a report either. I would have loved to have heard the expletive ridden cockpit chat that was going on in the Virgin plane at the time though. It would be quite epic.
@@alanphillips4851
"He said to his friend, “If the British march
By land or sea from the town to-night,
Hang a lantern aloft in the belfry arch
Of the North Church tower as a signal light, -
One, if by land, and two, if by sea;
And I on the opposite shore will be,
Ready to ride and spread the alarm
Through every Middlesex village and farm,
That the redcoats are coming, to be up and to arms.”
My son's college football team (UMass) are the "Minutemen." You always have to be ready in a minute to do battle with those redcoats. :)
I'm just really surprised that aircraft can push back without ground control clearance in an airport of this size. Uncontrolled areas seem bizarre and basically a little unsafe.
Cowboys over there
I was SHOOK that this airport was uncontrolled and then I went well it IS Texas!
It is unsafe. But nothing in Texas is safe.
Yes, there are enough variables involved when flying, no sense in having to factor in uncontrolled areas, too.
I’m pretty sure the FAA has looked at the situation.
Road rage has been duplicated to become ramp rage.
I'm an American, and an airline pilot. The Southwest pilots and tug driver were rude and arrogant. Once cleared to taxi, deviating from that clearance puts you at risk of collision or disciplinary action if something goes wrong. The Virgin pilots did the right thing to stop and query ground control if he was aware of the conflict, and to expect Southwest to act courteously.
American but not a pilot here. SW pilot behavior is bad, but it feels very American to me. Super common for people who do something wrong to not apologize and act super macho.
But what surprises me is the other pilots who were independent observers backed him up. Awful.
True -- except for the part about expecting a Southwest pilot to act couteously.
Southwest and other commenting pilots on radio very poorly done here!
Why is displaying courtesy the exception and not an ingrained part of expected behavior from people not just personally but professionally as well???
-everyone has an a$$hole, but that doesn't entitle people to go around displaying it publicly!-
As a 777/787 pilot I FULLY support the virgin crew. There is no way I would deviate from taxi lines to skip another aircraft. My wingtip clearance goes out the window. All professional pilots know the shameful reality… you hit something during taxi, it’s my fault. Every time. Even under marshalling. They absolutely did the right thing, end of.
Its not about ur feelings mate. Its about the rules. Know the rules of the airport your at
@@sammvoyager It really isn't about feelings. Pilots have to follow the rules and protocols of their airlines.
That may be so, but acting like a jackass isn’t ever called for.
@@sammvoyager "you're"
my late father in law flew bombers in 3 wars. when he was flying B52s for strategic air command, he made a boo boo by clipping a little tiny shed that was near the taxi-way. caused wingtip damage. sometime later, IDK how long, he did it again. some time later IDK how long , he was sent to fly cargo in Viet Nam. He told me he and a bunch (7?) of pilots in his bomber group were sent because they complained when they were issued the new fiberglass helmets. he said that he needed reading glasses because of his age and that the new helmets didnt account for the glasses pushing into his temples.
Kelsey's ability to analytically dissect almost any situation never ceases to amaze. So true that it is all too easy to say things via tech that I wouldn't say face to face. God bless 🙏
Kelsey really know what he is talking about.
I’d be angry too if I was a VIRGIN pilot!
@@dwmueller76 Yeah that was NOT cool.
I’d also be angry if I flew for virgin air
@@jcrosby4804 Yes and like your average obnoxious New Yorker. Class is primarily a matter of behavior. It's not all about your job, money or education.
Great vid. There is a mistake in the captions though. When the caption reads "Go on gents", it is actually the Virgin pilot saying "Grow up gents" futher cementing the toys-out-the-pram scenario!
If you don’t recognize virgin as an airline company the title of this video is quite funny.
Kelsey knew what he was doing
I had heard this exchange before but it’s the first time I get a full understanding of what happened. Good analysis and virtual rendering. Good job Kelsey, keep going, your channel is getting more and more interesting and engaging 👍🏼
Kelsey, keep doing what you do and stay awesome! No matter what anyone else here says, you're bringing a positive impact to aviation to the general public through your videos, and those who put you down are just exposing their own insecurities.
Who would be mean to you Kelsey, what a nice and informational guy
We used to share an alley with SWA in LGA. The alley was tight, so it was one in one out, and push clearance would be given to the first one who called. SWA would see our beacon come on and immediately call for push, even though their jetbridge wasn't even off yet. Regardless of how much we'd bitch, they'd keep saying they were almost ready, and would completely lock the alley down until they were ready to go. This happened more than once, so it's not like it was a one-off. I know some really great guys at SWA, but blocking people out seems like it's not uncommon for them.
Yup... I have seen Southwest pull these kind of stunts a number of times. Unprofessional
Kelsey I really enjoy your channel and I think you have an incredible ability to dissect and explain things so people with no aviation smarts can understand it and one’s that do are entertained. I want to say thanks for all your hard work and especially for times when after a 4 hour delayed takeoff and 13 hour flight then a 1 hour wait for a car or ride to hotel you still have the drive to read your mail put together a video and do narration… your the man
Knowing whether or not the person who cut you off did it on purpose is important information especially when filing a report
Exactly!
A report for what? It’s an uncontrolled ramp, uncontrolled means just that.
@@citrus737 safety is taken a little more serious than that in aviation. Uncontrolled only means they don't use atc
@@whiteandnerdytuba An uncontrolled ramp is just that. It’s a non-movement area meaning not controlled by ATC. It’s simple, works well and is in use at many airports in the US. The Virgin boys need to read up on ramp procedures at AUS then they probably wouldn’t get their nose out of joint.
@@citrus737 uncontrolled ramps still have wing walkers, give right of way and are expected not to crash planes into each other. Wait until you learn how uncontrolled runways work
Your statement about being polite at every opportunity is the central truth sir. My father, as an RAAF Group Captain. had always made that clear when conveyed to me. As a long term Medical Officer, it helped my understanding of talking in important situations. Not everything is easy.
My husband is from Japan and his politeness and willingness to always let others go ahead, had almost killed us. I’ve told him we have rules for driving and you are breaking those rules. Don’t start waving people to pass, turn, etc. You are breaking the common understanding between drivers! You are going to cause an accident. So no, being polite is not always best, and sometimes you follow the rules.
@@trishayamada807 Exactly! its about balance! My ex wife was from rural canada, so driving in the Northeast of the US was like living in the wild west. its a controlled chaos here. One must learn when to be gracious and when to be assertive. it does take time, though.
@@inconnu4961 controlled chaos, great description. 🌟
My late uncle was a 747 captain and instructor. He always said professional courtesy is an essential part of flying. Southwest's response was unprofessional and an embarrassment. They should have given way to the taxing aircraft especially when you have a fully loaded 787 bound for a 9 hour or more flight. The aviation field is about teamwork and respect regardless of who you work for or what you fly. If this happened at London Heathrow, I am certain that this would have been investigated immediately. What is concerning is the air traffic controllers sidestep recommendation. This is why it is important to have them do familiarization flights so they can understand the other side of the microphone and what it entails. if Austin airport wants to seriously upgrade to the international market, then they need to address the uncontrolled ramp period.
Lecturing someone on the virtues of patience while simultaneously jumping in front of them in the queue is more than a bit rich.
Americans especially Texans are hypocrites deal with it or cry into soggy biscuits.
I totally agree, it’s American arrogance at its worse. I am an American who has lived on Europe and have seen it before. It’s totally unnecessary. Don’t like it!
Ya snooze, ya lose.
@@JSMCPN that works to the point you fukkk around, then you find out !
You do realize that the only one trying to be in a hurry was Virgin. Also, it was a different South West plane that said patience is a virtue.
I'm not a pilot, but I am a Brit and I completely understand the Virgin pilots' reaction.
He couldn't been more professional and less rude about it though. He got the shit talking he deserved then all of a sudden didn't want to play ball anymore after he initiated it
I'm British and was a pilot. The Virgin pilot was arrogant and worse still, he was upset and about to get airborne.
I'm not a Brit or a pilot, but I completely understand the Virgin pilots' reaction. Even aside from rudeness or fairness, it feels like a safety hazard if a 737 gets pulled out right in front of another jetliner without warning despite being on the move on a cleared path. Even if a sidestep could have clearly worked, the airport should have made it clear that the Virgin pilots could do that BEFORE a plane was suddenly pulled out in front of them.
southwest pilot was a dick. does it take so long to explain?
@@iztheterrible no he wasn't
As a paying passenger who is relying on the professionalism of the pilots to get me safely to my destination I would expect them to display professionalism to each other also.
That is what both sides did. They were very professional in everyway. They never even said anything rude.
@@robertsears8323
Wow !
@@robertsears8323 Except the SW pilots and whoever else was chiming in on their behalf.
Too many conservative assholes in aviation. Those toxic assholes ruin everything they touch
@@robertsears8323 I guess you didn't watch the video? If I communicated like that in my office on site, I would get a call from HR with the possibility of getting fired. I guess Southwest corporate just don't care as there have been many other incidents of Southwest pilots be extremely rude and unprofessional.
Always enjoy your videos, Kelsey. Very interesting, informative, and at times funny. Thank you for sharing with us!
The water bottle throw / green screen check was such a cool flex! 😂😂 Kudos!
Naaaa... he has a sound stage! The bottle was completely CGI.
:P
@@TexasCat99 If we are going to go that far...I guess he himself could be AI. Those human replicas are getting pretty good these days. We need to send Rick Dekard to investigate! 🤣
Naaaa ... Kelsey is a flat earther in disguise as a pilot
@@bendrew1831 naaa, all pilots are actors and airplanes aren't real.
@@TexasCat99 spitting truth right there Texas....... thanks for the laugh
I’m pretty sure that’s the same controller that almost landed a FedEx plane on top of a SW flight in February.
Yep and this video proves further that SW is used to getting their way at Austin.
That was my first thought, same voice.
I just went and listened to the videos side by side, and it is the same voice.
It sounded similar
I was going to comment to point that out, and saw your comment. Definitely the same guy.
if you can't tell a good person when you see one, you'll never find one. Kelsey is the real deal.
Thanks for always being entertaining Kelsey 😂😂😂
Thanks for the upload! My family surprised me this morning and took me out for a birthday breakfast! And like Kelsey...I'm not going to turn down a free/paid for breakfast! HAHA! I agree that the banter between the pilots was uncalled for. No need to be rude! Have a great week everyone!
Great analysis 74 Gear. I had watched and listened to this interaction previously, but it is great to hear the perspective of a professional pilot. We all thank you!!
This is 100% on the flight dispatcher/tug driver. They are the ones with the eyes on ground and should have not initiated the pushback maneouver. If there were any incident, they would most probably be responsible for it. Southwest pilots could get off by just saying: "We didn't saw it from the cockpit, the dispatcher is the one responsible for the safe pushback and making sure there are no obstacles."
ye but you got to realise that the pushback drivers are given the okay from the cockpit (who got the okay from atc) to push back meaninf that in their head they would’ve just thought that the virgin was suppose to hold and wait for the pushback and the southwest pilot heard that the atc told them to side step them so tbh if the pushback drivers had coms this all wouldn’t have happened very unprofessional
I don’t know how it is in the US but the Virgin aircraft had clear priority. He’s taxiing under his own power, the other one is still controlled by the tug. But then I operate on a controlled ramp so I don’t have to worry about random aircraft going everywhere.
Well it is Austin so they probably got some hipster dim with a man bun running their GSE.
Yeah, shouldn't a plane in motion always have priority? The Southwest pilots wouldn't necessarily have seen the Virgin but the tug driver really should have and should've yielded.
Exactly what I was going to say. He has direct voice contact with the flight crew with or without ground atc
I am not a pilot, just a retired Pharmacist. I totally agree with your positive attitude in every video. Keep up the GREAT work.
Both Southwest tug driver and pilot already represented the airline's safety issue to the public. Well done.
Yup!
They'll just be like "that water bottle was CGI, Kelly is actually an animator from Pixar who failed as a pilot as a kid and wasn't able to let it go" 😂
I remember in the 90's Southwest was the best, safest to fly and a great airline to work for how they changed
Who is Kelly?
Kelsey has a unique way of making humor about people saying he's not real airline pilot
All you need is a really big green screen so you can demonstrate depth. Lol
I'm assuming it's the flat earthers who are still butthurt about his proposed trip to Australia video
Two things give him away as an actual airline pilot. His obsession with the snack box and his occasion complaining about minor items.
@@hawaiianetops9566 LOL but actually he seems pretty easygoing and doesn't complain about things, other than some minor grumbling if the snack assortment is limited.
When those people make that comment about him, not being a real pilot, they just ignorant. Whether you’re a pilot, copilot the word pilot is in both of them for a reason. Good job, Kelsey, and thank you for your time and your effort to make these videos.
Haven't watched one of your videos in a couple months - Really loving the new graphics, and the use of a flight simulator game to help explain things.
Careful Kelsey you nearly broke your green screen lol. BTW I am slowly working backwards through your YT catalogue ... just love all the videos.
Virgin Pilot: "Grow up, gents" - not "Go on, gents" (spot on from the Virgin pilot)
Thanks for pointing that out; I don't know how a operating pilot couldn't understand that radio call.
Especially to the two crews who were piling on after the fact.
Came to look for this and completely agree. At 6:38 and 10:00
Was definitely ‘Grow up, gents’, and perfectly put as well. The comments from the Southwest pilots were childish and unprofessional.
I have to admit, love your humor!
As a 78 FO I will say, our auto dual engine starts and short checklist speeds up the time to get rolling on the ramp. We don’t block long. Pity the man sitting behind a 737 Max starting both engines (Leap 1B engines take FOREVER to start due to shaft harmonic requirements)
Really great commentary! I love the focus on what professional pilots could do differently in this situation. Chief Pilot Kelsey!
I'm thinking a prerequisite for being chief would be a 4th stripe; but I've been out of aviation for quite some time now.
I'm not a pilot, but this to me seems like an accident waiting to happen. I can't believe there isn't a protocol for this. It seems ridiculous to me to allow planes to just push back in front of moving plane. Surely, either a plane taxiing should have priority OR a plane being pushed should have priority. Then situations like this wouldn't occur.
As a Brit who is ground crew at an airport in the UK, I was shocked to see the Southwest push in front of the taxiing Virgin aircraft!
In the UK our regulations (SERA) state that a vehicle towing an aircraft shall give way to a taxiing aircraft. This is regardless of the aerodrome being controlled or uncontrolled.
It might be different in Texas, but if I pushed an aircraft in front of a taxiing aircraft I'd be sacked immediately.
I totally agree with you ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆
thats why US aviation is seen as embarrassing to europe / rest of the world
Southwest does not care they are always in a hurry.
@@ant2312 American aviation sets your standards.
@@BOHICA_ you sure speak like those Virgin pilots 😑
This is a same Controller that was on when the FedEx bird almost landed in the SW aircraft several weeks ago.
Some translation notes from a Brit. What you call "crying" we call "polite" and what you call "assertive" we call "rude". In our culture it's rude to directly tell someone what to do. It's politer to hint. Daft maybe, but that's the way we are wired.
And if you do what appears to be the plane equivalent of pulling your car out of a side road in front of someone who was already coming down the main road, causing them to have brake to avoid hitting you, and they say, "Did you see me before pulling out?" that's a passive-aggressive way of them saying, "Fuck you for just pulling out in front of me and forcing me to slam on the brakes!"
Basically, I think our cultures have a very different way of communicating. (Not saying that one is better than the other).
And as others have mentioned, we really, really, really hate queue jumping. If we had as many guns as you guys do, the number one reason for people getting shot would likely be because someone jumped a queue.
Well, he was incredibly passive aggressive in his comments, so that’s even ruder than being assertive.
Good analysis, particularly re the cultural differences. The 'redcoats' reference from the Southwest pilot was completely unprofessional when being an airline pilot communicating on a frequency. Brits, like Australians and NZers and other first world Commonwealth countries absolutely despise queue jumping. Different cultures indeed, and the reference to Redcoats was completely unnecessary and inflammatory. Sounds like Austin TX need ramp control via the tower...it is a busy airport.
Its not just cultural difference between US and Brits. Im dutch and we have the same thing. Imo applies to most countries and definately to western Europe.
Want to get beaten up? Jump a que and the entire que will be ready to let you have it. Its NOT done. Doesnt matter where or which situation
Im guessing its still some leftover BS in US culture ( by lack of a better word, bc the US doesnt really have a culture) from the wild west times. Hopefully will learn some manners soon.
Quite astonishing also that Kelsey doesnt get this.
Talking about being 'assertive' here is complete nonsense. First of all, the word has different meanins in different languages. Up till the 80ies, we didnt even have that word, which was taken from english. But also in english the meaning varies a lot. And it was a late coming word, which means it was invented and is basically a non word. Its from the 1560ies, meaning "insisting on one's rights or authority". There is no 'right' here, as it is uncontrolled and no laws prescribed for the situation. There also is no 'authority', unless you want to argue authority derived from who had the bigger gun. Invoking that as somehow being a good thing, is idiotic.
There is nothing 'assertive' here, if one party is tought not to fight, while the other party wants to fight. It doesnt reflect power or strength in any way. It only reflects who is being an Ahole and who is not.
SW pilots fekked up and those remarks they made shouda made tower give them a number to call.
You might not want to say which way of communicating is better, so I will, the British way. If the Virgin aircraft had to come to a stop, then the push back had clearly created a possible hazard, which is an absolute failure of basic airmanship that involves everyone concerned, even tug drivers.
I love you seriously. I really wish I had a chance to meet you man. I have a real fear of flying but watching your videos and getting a better understanding of how airlines work from the inside perspective makes me feel a little better. Keep up the videos man
As a Brit, I fully understand the comment from the Vrigin pilot - did you see us ? It's the British way of making a point without being overly aggressive. He's making the point that the SW crew are either unprofessional (lacking professional courtesy), or unprofessional (egoistic-aggressive) in an environment that demands common respect and professionality. If no comment is made, you encourage such poor conduct to continue unchallenged. I don't think the Virgin pilot was under any illusion that the SW plane was suddenly going to develop good conduct or professional courtesy, and the remark about the redcoats was just childish and designed to irritate.
Virgins are angry
It's considered passive aggressive in the US.
@@dogcrazy25 2 nations divided by a common language. But there are much deeper cultural differences as well 👍
Another good episode. Not too shabby for a "green screen" warrior! LOL!
The very ending to this is top quality 😂😂😂 another amazing and informative video Kelsey cheers mate from Glasgow 😁
watched the whole video. You got my like when you threw your bottle towards the "really big screen" behind you! haha... love it! you should do that at the end of all videos hahah
It’s funny how the person making other people wait is always the one talking up the the importance of patience.
Nice take ! !
🙂😎👍
I was driving in a small town in Alabama where my boss lived and somebody pulled out in front of me. I mentioned it to my boss later and he said something like: "we ain't in no hurry in our small town". Translation, I was the one who was in a hurry because I was mad at the guy for pulling out in front of me and slowing me down. I was bad at arguing and just shut up. Later I realized that small town people are always in a big hurry because they are always pulling out in front of me. I didn't realize until later that they do this to me because they see the out of state plates and are just being pricks.
@@jcrosby4804 And is nine years old.
They're *really* all in for "freedom" - right up until the second that they're on the waiting end of the equation.
@@jcrosby4804 Reminds me of the other Southwest pilot a couple of years ago who had a stuck mic at KSJC and was heard ranting about the "liberal f**s" in California and how "if you're not rolling coal, you have no balls." Might be a bit of the Southwest corporate culture?
Kelsey, I know you're a real pilot and I wanted to tell you that I enjoy your content. Thanks!!! Plus, I gave a thumbs up.
Sounds like Austin needs to think about ramp control. AA is turning Austin into a quasi-hub. Its just getting busier there.
I have never flown fixed wing into Austin but it is kind of the wild west when it comes to rotory wing, seems like no one is really in charge unlike most airports.
I think AUS has outgrown the facilities. I know they’re planning a new terminal, but that’s years away.
Haha greenscreen that rocked. Love your videos you do a great job. ❤
Anger degrades safety. We need to work together to remain calm and focused so that we can fly safely. Both sides tweaked each other's emotions *just before takeoff.* That's the real lesson, and Kelsey, this video is worth a spot in flight school.
"Anger degrades safety."
Excellent. That is a quotable quote that I shall remember. Strongly agree.
That's what was worrying me. A pilot in a rage has impaired judgement.
I agree!!
I was thinking while watching..
"Now they are emotional and plan to take off..Hopefully they don't miss any checklist items..."
My flight instructors talked every flight about good decision making. If your emotional you lose your edge on that!!
I realize these guys are not GA but still they are humans and we are all affected by this type of stuff..
I like that ATC audio where the British pilots are mad at the NY control tower guys, " please think about the safety" and " you guys obviously don't think about safety do you!" 😆
Precisely my thought.
In reply to the Southwest pilots' taunting, what I heard from Virgin was, "Grow up, gents". Not "Go on, gents". Virgin pilot nailed it, IMO, and Casey was wildly generous to the Southwest crew.
Don't understand how he can criticise the Virgin crew in any way, maybe because he's American too?
@@ant2312 He literally shits on the Southwest crew for their "freedom" comment. Stop being a child.
How does telling an adult male to 'grow up' exude class & professionalism? me thinks it doesnt! Typical pettiness on par with the southwest gents, who were having NONE of it! there were no heroes in this scenario, just stylistic differences! Are you British too, or just an immature man? Grow up, George!
@@ant2312 well I could also have seen this going a whole different kind of rude when they would have been more assertive. This clip already has proven how those Southwest pilots take their liberty in high regards and how professional they can be. So with a high probability I can say that they still would have continued even if the Virgin pilots had said something and disregarded all the suggestions anyway.
*Kelsey. That explains why you heard "grow up, gents" :).
It all boils down to good airmanship - which starts when you settle down in the cockpit. No one wins by aggravating a bad situation
aw they're just brits. Its not like they're gonna exist in 100 years anyway with the way they're going letting a bunch of foreigners come in and get free room and board and food. When you keep transfering Work energy from one group of mice to another group of mice, you'll kill off the former group and the latter group will take over. That's why there will not be brits in a couple generations. Just africans in britan land.
Kelsey, I know why Virgin asked the question after the fact: they were trying to find out if Southwest were being intentional assholes or if they were accidental assholes. I vote for the former.
So "a little freedom" means people do whatever they want, grabbing what (or everything) they can, disregarding others.
@@jcrosby4804 What country are you originally from? Your immense disdain for America is incredibly un-American! Are YOU one of the Virgin pilots being discussed here?
Do whatever they want? Why do you people always go to the full extreme? But I somewhat agree. Those who don't know how to use freedom properly, don't deserve any freedom at all. Why? Because they dumb as hell.
Freedom in the least free country on the planet. The irony.
Freedom? More like anarchy. Not good in this particular environment.
Hey thats the whole point of americah right? If i wanna stir my coffee with an ak-47 I damn well can..... ijiots.
Equating freedom to being egotistical sounds like a very Texan way of thinking.
texas is 80% Mexican lol
@@norger oh I know your type. One of you a while back tried to convince me that there were violent mobs of foreigners roaming the streets of Europe when that was the talking point _du jour_ in the right-wing media bubble. Which is so post-journalism that they don't even feel the need to fact-check really easily verifiable information.
I think that guy was actually convinced that he was right and probably thought my eyes were deceiving me or I was deceiving him or whatever. Maybe invisible foreigners were roaming the streets, who knows?
Loved this one, can't believe there are still people on the internet who don't believe he's an actual pilot. If he isn't he surely is one of the best actors to date.
Even super con man Frank Abagnale Jr. ("Catch Me If You Can") couldn't pull it off this long!
And also what about the vlogs he posted lol
If Kelsey is not a real pilot then Mentor Pilot is also a fake, have you seen the videos of them together in Mentors home.
Actually, wearing the uniform during the video can throw you off. People are thinking.."this guys In his family room making youtube vids, how tacky to present while in his working uniform, why wouldnt he just be casually dressed.? "
The proof he must be a Pilot? In first minute he always says he is a pilot.
Haha... your green screen gag was the best bit! Clever.
I'm guessing the SW pilots went on the offensive after the Virgin pilot said he was going to file a complaint against them. This reminds me of primary school when a kid says "Ah mah! I'm telling on you!" and then the usual reactions ensue.
Can you understand why, or must we explain it to you?
@@inconnu4961 why so condescending? Everyone was being childish here
"Telling on you" nar he sounded concerned about a health and safety issue the report was going in before he informed them it was he was just gathering information.
There have been many lives lost in the past by ignorance in aviation,if the virgin pilot makes the report and it makes for a safer working environment then everyone is a winner
@@leelizington9501 i don't think this is life threatening. He sounded like he wanted to berate the controller, but when the controller exonerated himself then he was put out and looked for other avenues because things didn't go the way he expected them to
Great video again Kelsey. As a law enforcement officer I have experienced the same radio demeanor in the past. You would expect better. We don’t have it happen anymore though. About 10 years ago gps was added to our radios. The dispatcher can see which officer is keying up the radio. All that silliness stopped
Again Kelsey, love what your doing. You have a great following among my fellow officers
Nahh. The silliness just shifted from the main ops channel to the tac channel.
love how he throws stuff behind him to prove others wrong and that he is in a hotel 😂
Lol😂, if you listen closely, you can hear the typical hotel A/C unit next to the window
The funniest part is that whatever he threw didn't end up in frame, so... 🤔😆
Proves nothing. It was a CGI of him, not real. :P
amazing editing!
I love how he edited in a green screen.
Kelsey-
Excellent analysis and I r-e-a-l-l-y appreciate the graphics!
Love your sense of humor, Kelsey--keep at it!!
The very same controller heard in this video is the guy who cleared that SW flight to take off in front of the landing FedEx flight.
I also thought that voice sounded familiar.
Sounds a bit young and dopey. Not a voice that inspires confidence.
The Virgin pilot actually said '' Grow Up Gents '' not Go On Gents.
I do not know if Americans understand the phrase 'Grow up gents'. It's a mild, but savage put down alluding to the immaturity of the recipient of the phrase. And well earned by the Southwest pilot who made the comment about freedom and redcoats, just embarrassing airmanship.
@@NinoNiemanThe1st Americans tell each other to grow up all the time (usually in the way of, "we're not kids" or something along those lines, but if someone's really straight with you, they'll just outright say, "grow up"). I think the audio was just misheard. :)
I think you're wrong about this. There is a popular phrase in England, "go on then", which I believe is what the pilot used and altered slightly to include all parties.
@@meganproffitt424 It is the use of the last word gents that changes its meaning subtly. Everyone says Grow Up but Grow Up Gents has a slightly different edge in the UK or other Commonwealth countries like Australia, New Zealand or South Africa. A bit hard to explain, and a slightly upper class phrase, and a sort of friendly but unfriendly put down....like you are annoyed, but not overly so, although you are clearly registering your annoyance. AFAIK Gents used this way is not something you hear in the US.
I am with you on the audibility, I am not sure precisely what they said, although Grow Up Gents seems the most likely.
@@NinoNiemanThe1st thanks for the additional information!
10:32 challenge accepted! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
"Patience is a virtue" said by the impatient pilots. Quite amusing!
He said "Grow up Gents" not "Go on Gents"
Pretty sure Virgin 232G says "Grow up, gents" not "Go on, gents" at 6:39. I'm familiar with the accent!
Always enjoy your videos!
This is from some months ago and just before we had the Austin tower/South West shambles with the FedEx Heavy approaching on Cat III, sums up the level of unprofessionalism being witnessed generally in US aviation at present - a fact reflected in the recent notice from the FAA.
Is this the same controller from that incident?
Thank you for breaking this incident down for us, Kelsey. Hearing what happened from the perspective of a professional working jet pilot is invaluable.
I completely agree with you about the unnecessary and unproductive radio chatter.
It's not exactly the same but it is analagous; I was the dispatcher for the Security & Safety and Engineering/Repair teams at a large Chicagoland hospital for five years. At any given time I had 6-12 personnel using our radios for calls, task challenges, and progress.
Our shift strictly adhered to the "pertinent traffic only" model. If someone had a beef with other(s) they could express it by landline or in person but NEVER on MY airwaves; only working calls were acceptable there.
We were there to do a job, not to whine, pressure, criticize, or argue in the heat of the moment. Venting could be done privately, off-air.
Ar first some of my coworkers thought I was being a jerk, just wielding power. Once they got into the groove we became a well oiled machine; we outperformed the other shifts on every metric.
Friendly banter was fine, they just had to take a moment before blurting out divisive crap...usually they found.that it didn't deserve airtime.
We had post-shift gatherings that were fun, too, because so many of my coworkers found that if they took a moment or three to remember that we were on the same team with the same mission. It was truly bonding material. 😁
Friendly banter was fine? how did that adhere to 'pertinent traffic only'? it doesnt! So if one wanted to be Mr. Rogers on the radio, that was acceptable? LOL people LOVE to dictate other peoples emotions for them!
@@inconnu4961 When there was little traffic it was fine.
Do you think shows of unconsidered emotion are productive or appropriate in the workplace? What field are you in?
Great video, Kelsey. I, personally, think the SW pilots were completely out of line and I really DO hope the Virgin pilots file a report. This world just needs a little more common curtesy; it goes a long way.
🌴☀️🌴
Southwest may have been out of line, but probably didn't like virgin's attitude at the beginning either. When people come in angry at people they gonna come back at them with childish stuff often
The Southwest pilots were right in everyway. And the just pointed out that the Brits are big babies and don't know how to do there jobs.
I hope the very rude brits get wrote up and fired.
@@philnaegely Southwest was in no way out of line or unprofessional.
@@robertsears8323 Given the level of douchebaggery in their comments back-and-forth, yes, they were unprofessional.
@@ericforster2970 No they were very professional in absolutely every way possible.
They never said anything mean or rude. All they did was point out the fact the Virgin pilots are lazy and don't know hoe to fly or even taxi the right way.
I see Kelsey has one of those state of the art holographic green screens 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Excellent video as always.
Great video Kelsey! Virgin could have let it go but SWA was outright rude for no reason.
Southwest was not rude in anyway and the brits picked a fight for no reason. They brits were just lazy and mad that someone with brains and balls was better and faster than them. The Virgin pilots needs to get there cheery popped and stop being little cry babies.
They were NOT rude for NO reason! Passive-aggressiveness is as rude as anything more direct! the fact that so many Americans have been lulled into thinking otherwise is DISTURBING! The Virgin guy was a snarky puke, while the Southwest gents were direct!
So I work on the ramp for SW. We get clearance from our pilots to push who in some airports are cleared by ground control. Others are definitely uncontrolled..However, it is ultimately the wing walkers and pushback driver to make the decision to stop. Taxing A/C have the right away as long as they are underway. Now if SW wanted to continue push, then I would have turned the plane tail right to allow the 787 to taxi by. But that is just me.
As a frequent flyer to KAUS, I know the ramp is uncontrolled and usually ground clear us around traffic in pushback. However I have to side this time with the Brits because SW pilots should have said instead that they can stop the pushback or even move forward a little bit for the 787 to clear by.
I have done this once in MIA , with a Virgin 787 no less, and the crew thanked us profusely. Our aircraft is way smaller than a 787 and all we had to do was just a hard 180 so they would clear the alley between terminals J and H.
You greenscreen'd in a greenscreen. LOL! :D Nice.
Yeah, agreed on those other pilots comments. They were rude.
The Virgin pilot didn't need to start getting all pissy at the beginning of this, though.
Maybe this is a case where no one got much sleep the night before, and no one's had enough coffee to let them deal with the world. I know me without coffee is not a pretty sight.
Like tonight. Got back at 3am, gotta be at work by 9am.
Kelsey, your attitude towards others and people on the internet is commendable.
I think that at 6:39 he said "Grow up gents", not "Go on gents".
Absolutely Kelsey. As a truck driver I've heard people say the most vulgar things over the CB radio that you could imagine. Things they would probably never say face to face. Radio Rambo's we used to call them. A little patience does go a long way. So does a little courtesy.
I love the graphics! Great job. Captain D
“Grow up gents” not “go on gents” is what he said. Loving the vids
I agree with your full assessment. Let’s behave like the responsible adults we’re supposed to be.
I guess I would have expected better manners from professional pilots and as an American, I will come down harder on the SW pilots. Maybe Virgin shouldn't have asked if they saw him, but the SW pilots escalated way beyond any semblance of professionalism. I have a hard time believing they didn't know they were being pushing out in front of Virgin. I think they just didn't care. So I feel they were willing to irritate that crew from the get go. If I was managing those SW pilots, we would be having a serious chat about professional manners when piloting planes full of innocent lives and millions of dollars worth of equipment. Pride is a terrible thing at times.
Agreed. These bully Americans are rude and childish. They owe the Virgin pilots an apology.
@@sncy5303 Just a little lively banter.
Had the situation was reversed they would not have been happy. This bad crew resource management.
Well said. Just confirms my image of SW as trailer park red necks.
@@kitsuneneko2567 The SW pilot was on point...
If he had stayed quiet, the Virgin pilot (apt description holy WOW) would continue acting that way.
People like that need to be shown how childish/incompetent they really are, or they continue feeling empowered/justified in continuing to treat people that way.
"It's called an escalation"
It's called policing your own, and ensuring that your fellows don't publicly fall apart - the moment that they have to ACTUALLY maneuver the plane that they're supposedly certified to handle.
And, no... I'm not going to allow anybody to pretend that Kelsey's paper, offered from a different airline, at a different time - knows more about the runway conditions than the ATC that was actually there. *For. Every. Single. Obvious. Reason.*
"-already cheesed"
I forgot, you always yield complete control of the runway/situation to the most-cheesed person... That's how to "professional".
wtf.
TLDR
Watch Team America - "It takes a D to F an A"
SW is the D and Virgin is the A.
And allowing a supposed pilot to continue acting that way, is unequivocally unprofessional.
(Throwing tantrums because he literally can't steer a plane, unless it's on a yellow line...
He *_literally_* has less agency, self-awareness and maneuvering competence than freaking Roomba. "professional" )
Very. Simple.
Like your videos. I am a former RAF pilot and Airside Escort at YVR. We NEVER talked to anybody except ATC. Was a golden rule. Except, "Pan, pan, pan! Aircraft on finals, stand bye to overshoot. Vehicle attempting to enter the runway, Escort 528.". Was me, 3am, chasing a contractor at high speed, flashing my lights, sounding horn, foot to the floor.....had been sitting, engine idling, waiting for this type of thing. Got a pat on the back from the ASO later! (Mostly highly competent women driving 4WDs crammed with electronics.)