Outsider Visits a Magnificent PCUSA (Presbyterian) Church
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Memorial Presbyterian in St. Augustine, Florida is magnificent to look at and full of meaning in its art and design. I spent some time with Rev. Hunter Camp to learn about what it all means and what it's like to be a PCUSA pastor at a church of this magnitude.
If you see what I'm going for with these kinds of videos and you want to see more of this happen, please consider supporting the program at / tmbh
My connections with Presbyterians is so much more traditional, strict reformed, so it's fascinating to see this very different brand. I love it when you bring theology into the discussions of the churches you visit, Matt. Playing out the little differences in each group is what's most interesting to me.
i would like to ask that you go and have a look at an Ethiopian Church
I'd love to. Are you aware of one that would be open to that? I haven't had any luck when I've reached out to Ethiopian churches in the past.
I'd love to see this happen too
Yes! That branch of the family of God is very unique.
Maybe they would even let you see the ark of the covenant!
@@MattWhitmanTMBH sorry no but i sugest you go to lalibella it has a lot of very uniquely made churches where they dig a trench but leave a blaock of stone in the middleand in that bloack of stone is the church it is very interesting and i would sugest you do a vid on it and its an entire valley of churches i think
@@jasonalley6760 its allegedly in Aksum
It was interesting to hear the Pastor talking about the value that the art brings to the space - something the Catholics and Orthodox have appreciated for ever.
That's because a church that worships > cute building
Our priority is worshiping together and getting people saved. Cute buildings are bottom of the list😊
@@roses993 Oh, but we have both... that's the value in belonging to a Church that has been here for 20 centuries. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches preserved the faith for 19 centuries before anyone had ever heard of an "Evangelical" church which has no history, nothing of any permanence and a flawed doctrine.
I’ve been enjoying these videos, Matt- very informative, fair and entertaining! While you’re touring all these beautiful Protestant churches, you should check out the great auditorium - a Methodist church in Ocean Grove, NJ. The whole town was founded by Methodists too.
Great video! I visited this church last year and was amazed at how beautiful it was.
Another fantastic video, Matt! I'm still hoping to see a video where you explore Quakerism. As a current Mainline Protestant who was raised evangelical, they're the one branch of Christianity I'm most curious about.
They are fascinating. In Australia they are more like Unitarian Universalist but quieter but in the US they are still more recognisably Christian yeah?
Such an interesting church in terms of architectural influences. The platonic geometric shapes and grey tones instantly reminded me of some of the great Florentine churches such as San Lorenzo (including the Old Sacristy). Parts of the decoration on the wall remind me of the roofs of Roman temples; for example the temple of Jupiter (nowadays the Baptistery of St John) in Split. Thanks for sharing yet another great video Matt.
Thank you Matt for always providing interesting information and interviews and opportunities to stretch our minds 🕊️✝️
Thanks for making learning Denominational Ecclesiology so much fun, Matt!
Matt, nice video, As a lifelong Protestant PCUSA that was once United Presbyterian your questions come welcome but also a bit innocent or naive. He was very courteous and quite calm with his comeback to you. You seem to be on a notion in your videos about Presbyterians and Reformed as almost from A Baptist or Puritan stance. The true Reformed or Presbyterian church that is mainline is very much liturgical and very much can be a high church exemplifying that of an Anglican or Lutheran Church. Now while I agree with you the outside is beautiful this is NOT the most liturgical or ornate Presbyterian Church around, not even close. So I would show you the following churches that may blow your mind, that have been around for hundreds of years as Presbyterian that are far more ornate and high church. Let's start with the mother church of the Presbyterian where John Knox preached. The Church of Scotland, namely St Giles Cathedral- this is Presbyterian and very much tied to its counterpart in the USA as the PCUSA. Then let's go here to the USA shall we, How about East Liberty Presbyterian Church ( Cathedral of Hope) In Pa, a very high church and very high resemblance to a High Anglican Church or RC Church? Then how about Madison Avenue Presbyterian in New York City or Fifth Avenue Presbyterian or Brick Presbyterian in New York City? How about First Presbyterian Church NYC again very ornate and high church just like all these, much more than Memorial Presbyterian. How about we travel to PA and visit Shadyside Presbyterian Church in Pittsburgh, Pa. Or how about we travel to the South and go to Independent Presbyterian Church of Birmingham Alabama very high church? Or how about St Stephen Presbyterian in Forth Worth Texas, a very high Church very similar to Anglican? And many many many more. The sad thing I think is many so-called Reformed and Presbyterian churches are offshoots or more Puritan and you somehow think that they are the real Presbyterians. The fact is, that is not the case. The mainline churches are the ones that have been around since time and are memorialized. These other ones are splinters and break-offs. If you go back into history you will find that in the 17th and 18th centuries, many of the Scottish Presbyterians who came to the USA to visit family could not attend this splinter or say Presbyterian Puritan churches because they were nothing like the Church of Scotland. They many times would attend an Anglican Church when visiting because it was more akin. Are you also aware that in Scotland the Church of Scotland ( Presbyterian) and the Roman Catholic Church signed the St Margaret Agreement to work together? The Moderator of the Presbyterian Church as well as the Pope and the Archbishop of the Anglican Church in Scotland have worked together on projects. I think it is important to understand that the PCUSA is not just a liberal Presbyterian denomination, it is one of the mainline. You will find also highly liturgical PCA churches throughout the USA. The true Presbyterian church is Reformed and Confessional, these offshoots may consider themselves that, but they to me do not resemble the Presbyterian church I have been part of for over 55 years. Also take a look at many of the PCUSA churches in California too, one of the biggest is Calvary Presbyterian Church in San Francisco and Old First. Remember, not all churches that have broken off the mainline Presbyterian church are truly Reformed or Presbyterian. They may call themselves that for church government etc. Some follow Zwingli, but we do not. We follow the example of John Calvin, John Knox, and Martin Luther. I do hope and trust this has opened your mind a bit. I know coming from an EV Free church or even an Evangelical Presbyterian denomination, it's hard to understand. It's like comparing a United Methodist to a Southern Methodist or Holiness Wesleyan Church, they are far apart in liturgy, beliefs, and even thought. Like I said, I am involved in minsitry, have been a lifelong true Liturgical Presbyterian for over 55 years, so not sure where some of that was coming from. Have you ever seen the Worshipbook " Book of Common Worship" for the PCUSA or the"Book of Common Worship" of the PCA? I think that would help and also checking out all these churches I told you about. Start of with St Giles Cathedral in Edinburgh, the mother church. www.stgilescathedral.org.uk/ Blessings to you.
Agree on all points.
Hey Matt, if you ever have a chance you should definitely check out the Basilica of St Josaphat in Milwaukee WI!
Hey matt you should go to St Aelred Catholic church in Bishop Georgia, its an Ordinariate rite (traditional anglican inspird catholic mass) the priest is very knowledgeable and church is very humble in comparison to most catholic churches.
I just visited an Anglican Ordinariate. It was just lovely. (Payson, AZ) That would be a great thing to visit.
This is a great video!
This goes to show we need to take pride in the worship spaces we build. Beauty helps in worship
Not really. As a protestant, a relationship with Christ and genuine worship > cute building
Now Protestants understand why the Catholic church builds grandiose churches. They aren't vanity projects, they're meant to provide a sense of awe and transcendence for God to everyone who enters.
Truth, Beauty, Sacred Tradition/ Heritage, Reason.
The Sacred Art; statues, stained glass windows, icons, frescos all tell a rich, multi layered history about the life of Christ, His family, the Apostles, the Saints, events of the OT & NT etc.
Beauty lifts the spirit, it gives God the best of what the people have to offer in terms of skill & lets people learn visually. It provides a place worthy of rendering worship to Him.
We can remember when St. Francis was out on a walk & while passing by an old broken down church, he heard Christ ask him to please restore his dwelling.
I prefer a church that worships God than a cute building!! Lovely churches but that doesn't get me going. I'm in awe of churches where I see people worship God and live a Christian life😊
Dont let mudane aesthetics distract you from genuine worship to God!
Lovely church but nothing compares to a group of people meeting to worship and getting saved!!😊
What a glorious worship space! Seeing this church reminds me of so many cathedrals and changes the way I think about the PCUSA, for the better! So often we worship in buildings that look and feel like airport terminals. It’s so encouraging to see Christians committed to beauty in worship! Thanks Matt for sharing this beautiful community with us!
Worship the Lord in the beauty of holiness! That place is certainly beautiful!
Those words are on the arch over the entry to the chancel of my Anglican church in Toronto!
This is a beautiful Church.
Be aware that the Vatican does not financially support churches. Churches financially support the Vatican. Each Catholic Church has to pay its way.
Beautiful church! I have to say I don’t know how the original donor would’ve felt knowing about the later theological liberalism if you look up the church and PCUSA
As a more conservative Presbyterian, I feel like I'd be uncomfortable attending a church dedicated to a family member rather than Christ himself, as I'd be worried it would become idolatry for that person, but this seems to have been done immensely well.
Thank you for your curiosity
I think that his dismissal of the Catholic influence over the architecture of this church is a little strange. The architecture may be a mixture of Roman and Greek but the actual style, shape, and finishings of the church are developed by the Catholic Church in Europe.
Sorry but I see it as heavy and gloomy. Certainly not 'beautiful'. No Altar either.
Shocking that they have a Stars and Stripes flag in their Church. 😮😮😮
?
This person is making a broad stroke comment regarding the fact that it is a PC USA church rather than the more conservative PCA church, I'm assuming this person feels that the PC USA churches are unable to feel patriotic since they are the more liberal leaning churches, as if by that point a single church who, having it's own leadership is unable to have a mind of it's own. This is a very unfortunate remark. As a member of a PC USA church I can tell you that this is total nonsense. I love my country, the USA, and I love my PC USA church. May this person grow wiser with age and god bless @@jeffkardosjr.3825
Why’s that?
Looks Catholic
Why do Protestants use the names of Saints who were all Catholic? St Augustine was catholic. How about St Luther or St Calvin, since Protestantism rejected the Catholic Church?
Saint Augustine was neither Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, or Protestant. The Early Church is the Early Church and laid the doctrinal foundations for all the disagreements we have today.
St Augustine was indeed Catholic and even wrote about it in a specific way. That being in terms of outright fidelity to Rome, which, even as a Catholic myself I partially disagree with (given the true meaning of the word “catholic”). Just saying.
Lots of different reasons depending on which protestant church. Some do disagree and dont call them saints.
As for mine (Anglicanism, which was influenced by Luther and Calvin) the 39 articles denounce relics and praying to saints. But probably because of tradition, churchhes kept their names (dedication to saints) but not their relics etc. There is also that many protestant denominations (including Anglican) still see the importance of saints' examples for our own lives. We Anglicans believe the saints (every christian believer) are in heaven, just that we don't need to seek their intercession when we can go directly to God.
I assume for protestant denominations which are less 'middle way' than Anglicanism, its probably just for ease of usage to call pre-reformation saints St augustine etc since that is what they were commonly known as before their churches split from the Papacy.
Submit to the Roman Pontiff ❤❤❤
Who francis?😂😂.Well that's a joke!!conservative Catholics don't submit to him!
@@pfc4156 if you dont submit to the currently serving pope you are a schismatic ergo you excomunicated yourself
The only Vicor of Christ on Earth is the Holy Spirit.
@@jeffreythomas4924 John 14:17 The spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees it him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. ERGO every baptized person has Holy Spirit in them. And Pope is the vicar of Christ on Earth because Jesus made Apostle Peter the first Pope and Bishop of Rome.
Matthew 16:18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock i will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
No thanks
The only thing magnificent about Pcusa is their blasphemous heresy and apostasy.
You should do a vid with Redeemed Zoomer (he's PCUSA I believe) !
Yes, that would be awesome!!!
Those Presbyterians didn't have a choice whether to pay for that cross.
I kid. I will see myself out.
Can you explain? I don’t understand comment
@@jaycost4589 Presbyterians > Calvinism > no free will
I think a cool episode would be going to St Fancis Xavier Catholic church in gettysburg. you could mix a church tour in with a battle field tour
Beautiful church! Always appreciate your respectful and curious interviews!
I was raised as an Assembly of God pastor's daughter, but my dad was raised Presbyterian and what you said about Presbyterians really valuing proper verbiage and head knowledge rang true! That more scholarly style definitely rubbed off on my dad's preaching style in his AG churches, he tended to get nerdy about church history and ancient history surrounding the Bible. His last church before he retired had many people who only had a middle school education and disliked reading (it was a fishing village) so he was mindful of what vocabulary he used and tried to never assume that everyone knew something about the historical context of a passage. A lot like you, Matt! 😁 Keep up the awesome work!
Great interview Matt. I have never seen a Presbyterian pastor wear a collar. Would have loved to know his reason.
The Vatican was spot on with what it wanted. Read catholic teaching on gargoyles. Very interesting.
Reformed baptist next
So interesting. The very idea of a memorial church and grand mausoleam rubs right up against my understanding of mainstream reformed types. It produces some really unique results!
I wonder what it would have been like to Pastor during the funder's lifetime? Was he hands off or in their buisness all the time?
Thanjs for another great one!
"On accident"?
Should have met up with Redeemed Zoomer 😳😳
Shoutout to my conservative PCUSA pastors and brothers
They are slowly leaving the Christian faith unfortunately....
This guy seems more interested in his churches architecture and design and less on its purpose. He looks like someone who probably doesn’t mix with the less fortunate too often
if you could visit the first presbyterian church of Pittsburgh it's maybe the most beautifully church i have ever seen. thanks for the content 👍
No Protestant church can come near a Catholic church for beauty and holiness because Jesus is in the Tabernacle. Protestants only have bread.
Pretty architecture. But missing the Body of Christ in the Eucharist (and sacraments besides baptism).
I've never gotten to experience anything like this. My church has always gone from building to building (schools lunch rooms, usually) just renting space for a few years, and then moving on to the next landlord.
Matt I invit you to visit Presbyterian Church in Rwanda I wait for you to seen how Presbyterian Church in Rwanda teach the word of God
I went to College down the street from there. Never went
Beautiful church!
First
Good timing for an upload lol. I was just in a wedding at a PCUSA church of the same name in Michigan. It had the most beautiful architecture I’ve seen in a church. That being said, I found it very ironic that a reformed church was so extravagant considering Calvin was so spartan lol. I pray that our brothers and sisters in PCUSA are convicted that their affirmation of LGBTQ behavior is sinful.
Waiting for Redeemed Zoomer to show up here in the comments 🤔