How To Build Your Economy - Economy Guide - Shogun 2
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- Опубликовано: 26 июл 2024
- Hello everyone, this is the second part of the economy guide series. In this part we will finally take a look at how to actually build your economy. To keep this video from being 10 minutes long, I didn't explain every single detail fully. If you are confused about anything, don't worry, you can always ask me in the comments or in the Discord server. I'll happily answer any questions you may have!
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Игры
This is very good for preparation for realm divide.
I should probably make a video on realm divide anyway
Conquer 3 provinces just to build 3 rice exchange and recruit 3 metsuke... stack them to your home province... select oversee town in their skill tree.. build rice building and ninja building in home province.. now you can get a lot of tax per turns and build many stacks of ashigaru amies.. 😁
For small territories, that definitely works, but once you start expanding, your rice exchange buildings will start costing you more than they provide with the food requirement ;)
@@TheVikingGenerali mean just to focus building rice chain at the capital province.. it can help you in early game stage to survive the very hard or legendary difficulty.. especially if your starting province is poor and not in kyushu..
By the time I research Rice i usually have realm divide xD
Bro i tried your strategy and this failed i started with shinazu and reach kyoto and after capturing it my all ashigarus were messed and weak then hojo and takeda destroyed me (i only had 2 main army's
@@TheVikingGeneral economy is pretty simple in shogun 2, early game u depend mostly on yari / bow ashigaru armies and go for rice fields upgrade, then build sake dens and markets in every town, upgrade only special provinces and most worthy ones. later in the game, when u discovered some military tech u go back to chi and go for another rice fields upgrade tech. like that u can have all specialized provinces upgraded to max lvl with all the rest on 2nd lvl of a castle and still have some food left after conquering whole map.
as someone with a little experience in the game (2672 hrs) I'd add that taxes decrease with the number of provinces you own, therefor building up 5 provinces with rice exchanges and putting a tier 3 metsuke in them is really profitable as metsukes offer a tax rate buff of 20% ish if levelled correctly
on the note of clans declaring war on you across the map: research the diplomatic arts and slow down your expension as you get -4 penalty per province with the penalty going down by 1 each turn
so 1 province in about 4 turns keeps you in the neutral
also not doing anything dishonarable
I recently did a diplomatic campaign where I remained the vassel of the imagawa (played as Tokugawa) and was in the diplomatic green with all but my neighbour enemies, even became shogun after the Imagawa lost a war (totally not bc of my agents screwing with them XD)
another odd thing: asking a clan to break alliance with another clan wont make the targeted clan mad at you (they'll hate the oathbreaker though and are likely to start a war against him ;) ), but calling for a trade embargo will make the targeted clan angry at you
This video could be done in 5 lines:
Play Shimazu
Conquer Kyushu
Claim all trade nodes near Kyushu
Upgrade all provinces
Sit back and let the money pour in
Aye, that is a pretty good summary ;)
You don’t need any trade ports, you can make really good money just upgrading your farms as fast as you can.
Also works for chosokabe.
Also good for Otomo.
+ as soon as you can get warhorses, you can sign some very juicy trade deals which mean some quick money to develop your infrastructure
Otomo as well.
great timing on these. i haven't played a total war game since medieval 2 came out, but i'm researching your videos to help me get going on shogun 2.
Glad to help, and I hope you enjoy shogun 2 as much as I do! :)
Shogun 2 is excellent although a bit different in that most factions only have slight differences. I still love coming back to Shogun 2 even after playing all the newer ones.
You can pick it up for dirt cheap if you're patient
Just finished an Otomo very hard campaign and wanted to share the fact that Buzen was netting over 5000 koku per turn which was around 40% of my whole tax income (not counting trade)
Moved the nanban trade port there early (upgraded to quarters), later on added the mizu shobai for the extra 25% tax income and after many turns of turtling and wrecking full multi stack sieges (tercos>long yari on defense sieges, FIGHT ME YOU CHAD YARI CULTISTS!) got the kabunakama too
8000 town wealth, 2000 kabunakama commerce and whatever it had from average farming... add a high rank metsuke and the mizu shobai for 40-50% tax rate after administration costs even at low taxes (sad the jesuit college doesnt give 25% tax like the famous temple) and there you have it, 5000 koku per turn
Crazy how goldmine provinces like Iwami could be even richer
Yeah, you can really get a lot of koku if you build your provinces right!
I see you are a otomo player like me, nice!
Try this on your next otomo campaign: move your nanban trade port to buzen. Why?, for obv reasons: one of the most isolated regions+very fertile soil+closest port to at least 2 trade nodes to easy defense.
Your channel is an absolute gem.
That's what I've been waiting for!!!
Glad to be of service :)
Well in Long/Domination Campaign you should at least take 1.5 Japanese regions then ally with the border clans before you decide to boom.
Ignore any economic development and Spam as many Ashigaru as you can
Shimazu/Otomo Take Kyushuu (By far easiest location)
Mori Take Chuugoku and maybe Kyushuu (And kill that damn Otomo before campaign gets harder)
Chosokabe should just take Kyushuu and Abandon Shikoku Or Take both if you're on Easier Difficulties than Very Hard
Takeda/Uesugi should take Chuubu and maybe Touhoku
Date takes Touhoku and part of Chuubu
Hattori Takes Kansai
Hojo take Kanto
Ikko Ikki can either take Kansai or Chuubu
After that, play Sim City and wait 100 turns and then steamroll to win lololol.
Yeah, just always beware of you clan fame and you should be fine.
@MrPathorn You are mad bro
Yep, the more so, you can amass so much money, that when enemy with huge army attacks you, you buy his armies, surround the one controlled by daimyo and kill him with his own troops still laying on a pile of your coins :D
Why not just take Kyushuu and Shikoku on very hard? Even did that with bow + general only campaign.
@@Vincrand Realm Divide
At the start of the campaign
I always use normal tax rate
And when I have good control over my lands
I then use the lowest taxes to increase town growth
And watch these monies stack after a while
And then, I no longer need trade to support my armies and navies
It's only a difference of 2 growth, at the cost of 20% of your income, so not really worth it in my opinion.
But you can definitely do that from a roleplay perspective!
@@TheVikingGeneral I wish growth was exponential in that game since it'd make sense. Some backwoods town and New York City obviously won't be growing at the same rate so it'd be good if that applied in Shogun.
That turns a campaign into a 150 turn game instead of 100. No offense but that's horribly inefficient. That will create such slow growth and upgrading places so long
Welp, guess I gotta play Shogun 2 again. I learnt a lot from this video, I don't think a lot about tax & cost/benefit usually, and the way Shogun 2 is quite a short Total War game in turn numbers. I like to play slowly & build all the things, but if I concentrate on smart eco maybe I can try a higher difficulty
Shogun 2 can both be played lightning fast and as a slow builder, since the turn limit is very generous and there isn't really a powercreep to be worried by.
Nice breakdown 🎉
You have a deep understanding of the game
noiceeeeeeeeeeee loving all these shogun 2 videos, regardless of the content
Glad you love them, more to come! ;)
An indeepth clan guide would be awsome: like what types of units to better use for each clan. I love my oda long yari + matchlock ashigaru, but its to much of a defensive playstyle, and late game i have more offensive sieges than defensive field battles... on the othe hand i love hattori armies, full of no dachi and yari samurai for big charges and some kisho ninja for bombs and stealth charges... but that cost... So a in-deepth guide for the factions would be awsome, showing the best first 5/10 regions to conquer and the best way to build them (like, otomo and shimazu is easy to see which region to conquer... so is oda till you get the smith and gold regions from the hojo... but hattori is not so linear. i always conquer the "circle" and then go for the ikko ikki starting regions to produce troops, but it becomes hard to defend everything, low income and higher price troops... and oda knocking my doors)
I might do some more in-depth guides eventually. I have a couple of clan guides, but they're pretty much meant to give you a general idea, not a really in depth guide. Thank you for your suggestion!
A frustrating thing with how the economy works is not being able to downgrade castles (unless using a mod) for low-value provinces (= neither an economic center with a gold mine or philosophic tradition, nor a recruitment hub with smith artisans or horses). Meaning your growth won't be as high as it could be due to uselessly large castles that eat up some food.
Get trade nodes as soon as possible and get better ships to keep them. Having all the Kyushuu nodes means other clans can only obtain them if they can get trade rights with you. So not only do you have a wonderful source of koku but now you can demand koku from other clans if they want trade rights AND get unlimited military access so you can reach other lands without waging war.
When i play tokugawa i typically focus on infrastructure until i get kishu ninjas,postal roads,and first upgrade abuility for farms,then i go straight bushido to get guns,extra ammo for archers,and bomb ships.
I'd highly recommend Darkside's economy guide too. It's super helpful
Thank you for the tip! There are definitely some more in depth guides out there.
or, 3rd strategy, do nothing, take like 4 provinces then wait for farming and market techs and then get invaded and defeated for no reason. Does this work? No. Is it even fun? Also no, but god damn it, patiently watching those KOKU STONKS take off will never get old.
Hahaha, I feel you ;)
I much prefer the slow build of the rice basket approach. Having the economy rolling makes the game much more enjoyable and fulfilling to me.
hmmm so i had to open this vid from discord to get the notification on youtube... lol hahahaha
There is probably some delay on the youtube notifications XD
Was just wondering if you have any plans to make guides for fall of the samurai?
Yeah, after "finishing" shogun 2 (covering most of the big stuff), I'll probably move to FotS.
STRATAGIE TIME
How do i proceed? Im Oda atm and im stuck since i on my right side are many takeda provinces and on the left side are some elite armies of the chokosabe and the ashikagawa, my armies are many but streched and i dont know on which side i should push
you make very good shogun content, ive only just recenly got back into playing it (after realizing total war warhammer 2 was crap i went back to modding twwh2 and shogun 2)
Ok
Here what I do in first 30-40 turns
-resurch Market
-work on capturing nearest province with school
-make 5 metsukase ASAP
-after resurching Market resurch the enqabment for more repanishment rates and better army
Tried with every one with land, with sea only to sell trade
-after reaching the main recruitment provences I stop for improving towns
-I sell miletery accecs for clans I will not attack if they attack I just vasilise them to gain honer
That's a decent strategy indeed. Be a bit careful about selling military access, as sometimes the AI will wander deep in you territory before attacking. ;)
@@TheVikingGeneral most of the time they are not that smart to seek in but if they attack I will gladly take it.
Of course sometimes it gets really messy and every body starts to declare war on me like a mini relm devide, but after repealing some huge stacks I will begin the peace talks and mybe taking some vasels if they become feeble and got one provence only.
And that's the fun part
Defeating huge stacks in Castle defense and attack again
Not that viable. By selling military access, you are enabling other clans to move their army into your provinces but you can't attack them even though their intention to attack is pretty clear without suffering a diplomacy penalty. By attacking a clan that has military access with you will lower your integrity among all clans. They are less likely to make a trade and more likely to attack you since you are the villain in their eyes. And by having enemy armies that stay in your province without war declared is like having a time bomb in your provinces. You have to relocate your army to prepare for the obvious ambush. Sure you can say you can always retake those lost provinces. For me, it is a hassle as I am more like a perfectionist. Relocating one army just to face the possibilities of getting attack in N turns where the N could be any number of turns. You could achieve more by having that army to expand. I normally conquering whole map in legendary campaign between 60 to 80 turns. So my point is pretty much consider validated by result.
PS: A major drawback with military access is you will have a cooldown period before you can attack that particular clan even though the military access has expired. You can't ignore that cooldown without having a penalty to your clan integrity. Low integrity means every other clan is justified to attack you. Hence multiple warfronts, thus time lost.
@@RG-hx8uc I am selling miletery accses only in the biginning and if I am sure that a clan will declare war on me I sell miletery accecs to them.
For example
If you play ikko ikki, you should know for sure that sakai will dclare war on u
So why not gain couple thousand cokous when you are sure they will de lar war on you and you will defend your town that they can't pass to other and then after winning make them you vassel - after being feeble of course -.
It is very sitiatinal tbh
@@Abdu_401 Sure, it does work in this case but I doubt new player will know this before you specify it in first place. As for vassal, I don't really recommend it in the early game. Honour point is capped anyway. Vassal will drag you into unwanted war, often times you are either force to in war with most clans or lose honour for betraying your own vassal for not helping. So in the end, you don't really gain honour but you do gain a lot enemies. More enemies means you have to fight multiple enemies at multiple fronts, hence you can't expand efficiently. More enemies also mean less trade partners, and provinces that get attacked/conquered will suffer in term of growth. So if you protect your provinces well, you will see the difference. However , you can always make sure of vassal in certain cases. For instance, you are expanding at multiple fronts. You don't want to stop expanding like I do. You can vassal that province and let your main army continue to expand while you preparing a new army in home provinces and by the time your new army reaches that vassal, they are more than likely to revoke if you are having realm divide. With this, you can optimize your expansion rate.
Again , some people may claim there is no need to play the rules, just attack clans regardless of treaty. But this may not matter in realm divide, but it do matter in pre realm divide. Attacking clans while ignoring treaty will lower your clan integrity, hence you will notice all the other clans just hate you "without reason". I see a lot people claiming diplomacy doesn't work, well, it does work, works well if you ask me.
I can go in length with diplomacy mechanism but I rather not.
No offense, since this is a guide based video, just want to share some pointers. Have a nice day.
Getting over 20000 from trade agreement is the best
Why other clans always said the port is full when I want a trade and I see other clan have many trade partners.
Well, I just conquer. It works.
Easy, any provinces with special buildings, I build military buildings. All others I build till they have three slots, market, ninja building and either churches or monasteries. Have plenty of food maxing out markets and lots of money about 10-20 thousand a turn. Also trade with everyone and you can demand payment for your trade from everyone. Wait until they break the agreement and attack you. No loss of diplomatic standing. This formula works well for me.
About general commision, what you will pick on early game when you get a general? Development, finance, supply, or warfare(the latter is shit, at least for me)?
Before you upgrade your town infrastructure (markets, sake dens, etc) then pick development. It gives a small discounts to buildings.
After that, I'd say finance. The bonus tax rate helps a lot.
After that, supply. Getting less upkeep is pretty nice.
And the last general is warfare. The discount for recruiting units only plays a role in the mid-late game, where expensive units takes the field. Early game you'll field largely ashigaru armies anyway, so the reduced cost arent too important
You can always switch its role once per turn for each general. You can optimize it by using perks offered by the current role before you switch it. For instance, you can have a supply general to travel first before changing the role to something else. I always stick to finance for my highest-ranking general since he is most likely having the largest army (hence reduced upkeep) and has a passive tax income bonus as well. I hardly go for warfare general since I hardly do recruitment in mass in one turn so it doesn't justify the changes. Development General is pretty neat as expanding army since you will have less resistance in your newly conquered provinces by that particular general. Sometimes I will switch to supply general if I want to travel faster and my army is heavily injured in order not to slow down my expanding rate.
PS: Always switch to financial general last since its perks will only take place at the end of turn, not in between.
Warfare is only useful for loyalty purposes. I tend to forget about the commisions, but if I don't, I tend to switch them around alot, depending on what I need. The most powerful immediate effect imo is the supply, for the replenishment bonus, since in the early game low replenishment rate can be hard to deal with.
@@TheVikingGeneral General gains loyalty whenever they are being assigned to a position for the first time regardless of position. They loses loyalty whenever they got kicked out. So loyalty gain is not the actual perk of warfare position. Warfare position has shorter cooldown time for its general skill.
where is the first part?
This is a thing I've not seen mentioned- has nothing to do with the economy, except in the fact that it saves you a lot on naval costs, both units and research time- TAKE THE BLACK SHIP. That thing can, with a bit of clever manoeuvre, take on full navies. One ship, with a tolerable upkeep cost, can give you total naval dominance. Taking it is hard, unless you're the Otomo and have several Namban Trade Ships, but ohhhh, it's worth it.
Actually, the starting Bow Kobaya is the best ship in vanilla Shogun 2... For those that didn't want to revoke their faith in Buddha and embrace Jesus, or didn't have any luck about Black Ship showing up on their doorstep anyway.
Research Fire Arrow and it will beat almost any ship in the game. One Black Ship's upkeep allow you to field two dozens of this starting combat ships! Which means cover both sides of the Japan coastline instead of just one with the Black Ship.
The downside of using Bow Kobaya is that you must always initiate combat or the AI will pick "Rain Weather" to nullify Fire Arrow, and must always use manual combat as Auto Resolve will kill your fleet.
Also, Bow Kobaya has trouble against Sengoku Bune, as most of that ship's crews are inside closed cabin and arrows can't pierce through ship hull to get to them. Not to mention that it's faster than Bow Kobaya, which means you can't kite them like other Bune. You have to set it on fire in a single volley as soon as it's in range, or you're dead.
There's also Siege Tower Bune and Matchlock Kobaya, these has double the upkeep of Bow Kobaya and can pierce through ship hull so they're better at killing enemy fleet. But they're so deep in the tech tree that you probably already beat the game by the time you researched them, unless using Mod to make one year in game last 12 turns instead of 4 to gives you time to get them.
@@machaiping the main disadvantage of that strategy is that you're forced to play the worst part of Shogun 2.
@@haissake It's that, or you need to station a ninja or two in your heartland to immediately sabotage any D-Day landing before they can cause too much damage, which means less ninjas on the front stopping enemy from ganging up on your army with double or triple full doomstacks during Realm Divide. Or station a lot of armies within reach of every possible landings.
A couple of fleets on both sides are more practical on your army upkeep I'd say. That, or two Black Ships. But we're talking about not relying on RNGesus sailing Two Black Ships exactly when you actually have the navy to seize them aren't we?
@@machaiping I highly preffer to built a strongRNG fleet, It's far less tedious. I tried to enjoy naval battles in vanilla Shogun 2 but boarding is too buggy and archer battles get boring fast.
@@haissake But even boring tactic of burning ships with fire arrows spam is still more preferable to dealing with D-Day on your backyard is it not?
The slow and steady is not really working for me. When i had trading agreements the clan i was trading with got wiped out and the other clans got much stronger and attacked me. Its better in the earlygame to rapid expansion and then to slowly going on more defense. The longer you wait the stronger other clans get or they might be already allies with other clan which making war even more costly and risky.
I just get Sado early on and it's basically gg.
How to build up your economy: be otomo/chosokabe/shimazu and spam trade ships.
I'm sorry but Rice Exchange does not decreases growth in the near provinces, and increases it by 10 , not 5. Is that something that has been patched pheraps?
Ikko Ikkis strategy is my personal choice, recruit 5 monks and build castles in Kaga or Echizen, then raze and burn everything you can with your revolting ashigaru armies. Optionally, you can build a few more castles to train monks, speed up research and spread the true faith. Enjoy yourself, as half of Honshu is controlled by Buddhist rebels, and another half is your enemy, and you have unhappiness everywhere from Kyushu to Fukushima. (Just kidding, there's no way you can reach Kyushu as the strait is constantly blocked by one of 40+ of your enemies. The bright side is that you don't really care about fame or honour anymore.)
what is the suggested garrison per town in early game? like small enough for public order but large enough for a decent 20 minute defense
Only garrison in 3 cases :
- public order until it's fixed. For public order pick the cheapest ashigaru, maybe mix yari and bow 50/50, and don't feel bad disbanding if they are no longer useful and more than a few turns away from the next place they'd be needed
- border, though often a field army will be there anyway to recover. If not, build it for defensive potency, and this army will follow your field army when you move forward.
- where the AI decides to do naval landings, they'll usually keep focusing on the same province for a while (defensive setup)
@@Duke_of_Lorraine
Every castle in my play through is always defended by 4 yari ashigaru and 2 matchlock ashigaru
Just enough for a full stack as long as the enemy does not use 6 bow samurai
@@Byenie0912 which is very expensive on the long run. Why defend castles that are very unlikely to be attacked when it comes at the opportunity cost of having more field armies, navies and developping the economy ?
Man even i use most powerfull clan i still get defeat against Economic ratter than defeat by other clan :(
Low taxes and excess food from markets. Don't overdevelop every province. Done. Monster economy.
Whats the cheat to get heaps of money?
SHAMEFULL DISPLAY
@@drachenjungenichts950 so shameful
dutch?????
What? So making markets is bad?
Helpful but, slow down your explanations!
Thanks, I'm always trying to balance speed vs time. This feedback will help me in finding the right balance :)
Shogun 2 is better than aoe 4. The rreal strategy not war war war nonstop
Haha, I never got into any age of empire stuff. Way too fast, I like to take my time to think xD
great video but chill out with the editing, no one likes listening to monotone fast instructions with hardly a break between words.
Thank you for the feedback. Sadly, that is kind of the "style" of the videos, but I try to balance it a bit better.
Speaking very fast...Not understandable.
The economy in this game is broken, it's too bare bones and a grind, and the game too short to build anything. I have to read 6 books and watch 400 hours of videos just to support my fucking army. Any more than half of the Chi and Bushido arts are never learned. This game sucks. I'm going back to COD. It's just not fun.
Idk i thought this is the easiest total war i ever played you should give it a go again
Extremely common CoD Player L