Boys Don't Cry (Except When They Do)
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2021
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Since we all know that boys (and men) do cry, this video focuses on the relatively narrow set of social circumstances where those tears are permitted.
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RECOMMENDED READING
• The Will to Change by bell hooks
www.simonandschuster.com/book...
• The Gender Knot by Allan G Johnson
tupress.temple.edu/book/1306
• Permission to Feel by Marc Brackett
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CREDITS
Writer/Editing: Jonathan McIntosh
Outro music: Rick Lopez
i'll die mad about how marvel played thor's weight gain & alcoholism in response to losing everyone he loved for laughs
one thing that really frustrated me was that he wasn't even 'that fat', especially with how much they exaggerated it. i proportionally have more body fat than "fat thor" did, and it was just weird to watch that scene, being expected to react with "wow, he is really massive now, how pathetic."
it could've been quite interesting if they portrayed it properly. superhero type characters always Have to have "perfect" bodies, so the premise of thor not being excessively muscular is just cool.
I think humor is often a response to awkwardness or situations on which there is a conflict of reaction. Kids being rude is funny for example because they act outside the socially acceptable paradigms. Irony is funny. Odd combinations are funny. Comedy often works in this way and I think it is important to reflect that because humor isn't necessarily "cheap". It unveils.
I therefore get the suspicion and criticism but I think you can gain understanding through humor or humor can help to highlight conflicts or the inability to deal in other ways. Jojo Rabbit deals with Nazi Germany through humor. That doesn't mean the point it makes are not valid or that it is not a serious film regarding horrors.
Likewise the Thor Humor in endgame for me makes his trauma more accessible. Viewers can ease some of the awkwardness of dealing with this situation of seeing him in an "odd" or irritating way through humor. Which can help normalise the situation. It's a tricky road but I did not think it cheapened Thors depression. Hemsworth did a wonderful job. It highlighted his and our inability to deal with humor instead of aggressive retribution storytelling. His mother allowing him to express his emotions and caring for him was not a humor situation and allowed him to deal with his grief in other ways going forward.
I don't know for me it seemed like he was trying to hide it.
Of course he'd look ridiculous by contrast but people weren't actively mocking him more than usual like Tony calling him Big lebowski.
Even worse, is that the producers wanted to change Thor back to skinny Thor once he got his mojo back, but Chris Hemsworth didn't like the idea of needing to be skinny to be strong.
Thank heavens for him
@@3dsmaster537 wow I was definitely expecting this to happen at the cinema like "obviously they wouldn't let one of their strongest macho-est heroes go to battle looking like this". I was so pleasantly surprised, fat Thor is best Thor and he resonated so much with me and my friends. I should have figured it wasn't the producers idea 🙄
From Phineas and Ferb:
Isabella: "Buford, do you... have something in your eye?"
Buford: "No, I'm just crying!"
Beautiful
Was this the part when he was asked before if he was crying and he replied no he had smth in his eye then counteracted it
This makes me think about how Marvel handled Thor'a grief vs how they handled Wanda's. Thor's was for laughs & jokes while Wanda's was taken more seriously.
Real
Even though she went completely bananas and did a whole lot of *abuse and murder* on the way
In Infinity War? Not particularly. In Endgame? Don’t get me started lol
Wait, I never noticed that--- fathers can cry at heir daughters' weddings, but not their sons'. That's so weird.
Cause they’re losing their daughters not their sons
@@AlcoholicJugg sounds like a double standard.
@@borderlands10 it’s not, at a wedding the father literally gives away his daughter to another man, not the other way around
@@AlcoholicJugg aaand how does that not apply to their sons, exactly? Like I said, sounds like a double standard.
@@borderlands10 quick question, who normally gives up their last name in a marriage?
I hated that Thor grief's was played as a joke. He lost everything, his home, his family and then he does even get to cry when seeing his death mother after years?
Honestly, the way they turned Thor into a joke all together was a mistake. If they hadn't, they could have played the exact same scene, but with a more genuin touch.
Although, given how male tears usually are dealt with, if Thor hadn't been turned into a joke at that point, they wouldn't have had him cry, probably.
Also look at him in this scene and the scenes before, I think he clearly suffers from depression, he doesnt leaves his house anymore, has a serious alcohol problem and doesn't bother about self care and hygiene anymore. And then he gets triggered by seeing his dead mother after he lost absolutely everything he gets mocked for it. Not fair and very toxic. Normally someone like that needs therapy
@@choronos That's because they did him and Hulk dirty. Personally I didn't care for Ragnarok yet what I saw is that everything leading to "end game" pretty much ended the worth of all the characters. Like it seemed they pulled everybody down and either killed them off or make them jokes.
@@c.m.9369 I think being less serious about Thor and leaning into the absurdity of his character was one of the best decisions the made in the MCU. Ragnarok is pretty great because of it. Of course that doesn't excuse playing his genuine grief for laughs.
I'm creating an audio series and I'm planning for at least one character who is a man (13 year old boy, but still...) to cry as much and as hard as a female and I'll make sure it's not played as a joke (I might make an exception for happy tears). I also intend on doing the voice myself and I plan on actually crying while recording my lines.
I have an advice for parents. When your young children cry a lot, it can be exhausting, so you might be tempted to tell them ‘stop crying so much’. But in my experience it is WAY more efficient to sit down with them and invite them with a warm voice to cry as much and as loud as they need. Often they stop within a minute. Trying to fight back tears is in fact causing more later.
So much this! Being there to listen and to help is so much better
Yeah, the only exception is when kids cry for manipulative reasons, to get what they want (without asking with their words first). Then a "stop crying, please use your words" is reasonable.
I’ve watched my aunt teach her little kids how to breathe through their crying and their tears, more along the lines of giving them coping mechanisms to help calm down. She doesn’t vilify or suppress their emotions, but she doesn’t let them do whatever they want either. I think it’s a good balance point, especially because everyone in the house (the parents, guests, and siblings) have to suffer when a toddler decides to cry as loudly as possible when he doesn’t get the cookie he wants. We shouldn’t be teaching kids that it’s okay to react like that when they don’t get what they want for the sake of preserving their emotions. It’s important to have discernment in the situation, as well as with the child. There are times when I’d let my kid cry freely, and other times when I would say to them “it’s time to exercise self-control” and not enable bad behavior.
Exactly! Learn to replace "don't cry" with "you can cry". Kids need to know that they are safe, no matter how vulnerable they are being. Letting people cry (not just children) helps them find stability and safety. It helps the body complete it's stress response too, as hormones like cortisol only go down when the body has received a cue that it is safe.
@@tusenbensen334 Nope, "stop crying" is not acceptable even in that situation, "I will listen when you use your words" is all that you need to say. You can let children know that manipulation is unacceptable without villainizing crying.
"Movies tell us over and over again that if men allow themselves to feel vulnerable, they will be rendered useless."
oof
we don't need movies for that. reality does it for us
This culture weighs so heavily on men that I remember how my boyfriend (now husband) used to thank me for letting him be himself in front of me. But I have to admit the first time he cracked in front of me it kinda felt awkward because I didn't expect a guy to cry. It's unfortunate that women, also, propagate this culture by considering men showing emotion less manly.
My ex left me the first time I cried, saying she "Doesn't judge it, but can't be with a guy who does that".
After she'd cry almost every time we spoke and I supported her every single time (I wasn't even the cause)
As a younger man I can only say thank you to the women who aren't judgemental towards men when they are at their lowest. It helps us more than you can imagine.
@@strionic770 damn. that sounds horrible, i hope you find someone better for you, it sucks how you cant event cry in front of your own partner
something that i noticed everytime "are you crying?" was asked is the accusatory and kind of shocked tone, rather than a tender and loving show of support
So much this. The sad thing, as a man, I often find myself denying it or playing it off as a bit of hayfever or the wind. I know I shouldn't and should just be comfortable being emotional.
Is this some western thing? Because I remember anytime some boy cried we always tried to console them yet this is never depicted in any movies whatsoever.
@@novicioussantana1668 I don't think its a western thing. Toxic masculinity and patriarchy is everywhere.
@@novicioussantana1668 speaking as a Southeast Asian, boys crying is definitely frowned upon and mocked here.
@@novicioussantana1668 Good question. I actually think a big part of it is the fear of being ridiculed rather than that being the reality. If one of my male friends or my dad were to walk in on me crying, I'm pretty sure they'd just give me a hug and ask me what's wrong (and I'd do the same in reverse). However, I'd be very embarrassed, which is ridiculous.
There's a stereotype in western media that Asian men tend to be effeminate and so are probably given more license to cry (the stereotype is wrong; the emotional expression is not). My experiences of having worked in South Asia for several years is that social connections tend to be much stronger, especially same-sex ones. Male friends will frequently hold hands or have their arms around each others backs as they walk around town - something I'd never do with my male friends. My Indian friends were definitely much more emotionally expressive than I could be.
There's a flip side to this that Indian men tend not to have as many female friends as western men as relationship norms are very different, and this has observable consequences as men grow up in their attitudes towards women.
As is often the case, I think there are positive and negative aspects of all cultures, including the broad East--West differences, and we should aspire to learn from each other, looking at what other people do better than us and try and understand why.
Lord of the rings handled this so well. The male characters openly showed affection for one another, whether it be a kiss on the forehead or verbal appreciation. Their tears were never shunned by others.
"I will not say 'do not weep', for not all tears are evil" - Tolkien
I've found that Asian movies and shows are better with this. Crying isn't as stigmatized here especially in media. Most of the korean shows I've showed a tenderness in the handling of male characters. A lot of anime that I've watched also shows crying more casually than other mediums. Have you heard of BTS? A lot of their non music content is a super good example of healthy male friendships. They are so comfortable with each other physically and emotionally. And they are not afraid to cry on stage at all. I don't know if its an Asian thing, in my country too boys are quite comfortable with each other physically. Which I think is a very essential component of friendships. The amount of comfort and reassurance a hug from a friend can give is amazing. I find that men in the west almost seem touch starved.
hell yeah. Aragorn is the perfect example. He is a great leader, he shows affection to his friends without doubts, he cries and he loves. Such a well-written character.
@@katara2021 What country do you live in btw? I've heard men in Russia are quite affectionate and open with each other, at least physically I think. I knew some Asian countries as well were like this, but I was wondering if there were any more?
@@bonafide4874 I'm from India and I can personally attest that men are genuinely comfortable with each other here. Of course our country still has a lot of problems related to women's equality but men crying and being physically affectionate with each other isn't stigmatized. I mean my cousin would have zero problem sharing the same single bed and blanket with another men level of openness. Plus no one will imply that he is gay because of it. Though the crying thing can be a problem in the military.
No homo, Mr Frodo
As a woman I hate my tears. People just trializes my problems as "Typical women" if I cry.
Yep. Pretty much any expression of emotion gets me labeled as an "emotional woman," and suddenly no one takes me seriously.
Thank you for bringing that up
I hadn't thought about that nearly as much
While I agree, this video is about men. Maybe we should respect their conversations if we'd like them to listen to us
The people that look down on crying/emotional expression are immature people, regardless of their gender.
Problems that affect men or women have an inverse problem on the other side of the coin.
Men shouldn't be expected to cry? Women should be expected to cry.
Men need to be aggressive and dominant? Women need to be fearful and submissive.
Men should toil away at work? Women should slave away in the kitchen.
And many more, but as you've probably picked up, most relate to the expectations placed upon a person depending on their gender. The problems affect both sexes. The only real way to counteract many of the rules is to shatter them, but sadly, this likely won't happen, because the most socially successful men and women abide by them. It's important to note that the status quo serves solely those at the top of the hierarchy.
I wonder if the whole "boys don't cry" thing is also responsible for the reason why most strong women in media don't cry. Many movies have included the roles of strong, competent women (girlbosses, if you will lol) and one thing that many of those roles have in common is that they are stripped of all traditionally feminine traits. Rather than showing that a woman can be both strong and feminine, she primarily, or exclusively, displays masculine traits (personality wise of course, they still have to keep her looking sexy). This includes the strong woman not crying unless those same windows of opportunity for men occur.
The English is a great example of a show that does this well (the strong woman part)
@@Trinidadianlove I'll check it out :o
Ultimate take away: uncle iroh is everything and he deserves more praise.
Yeah I cried iroh broke me
YES, omg i loved this man so much while watching, he was so emotionally mature, and a good masculinity representation, is really beautiful
his advice as well as the one episode where zuko has to learn how to firebend again without his anger being a source is so genuine
Rip his voice actor
Leaves from the vine may as well be a faucet handle for my face.
"Fathers teach their sons not to cry, so little boys learn to hide their feelings. And society likes that, so in that way when they get to be eighteen they will be able to go overseas and kill strangers without feeling anything."
George Carlin
Yes, the american military is the most dangerous form of toxic masculinity
Is that why? All this pain just to be a compliant little soldier or factory worker. Absolutely vile.
@@transfemme5749 As someone whose served this isn't a good take. The Military is not bad.
@@godli7806
you might be _a little_ biased... 🤔
OK, thats kind of a reach there
thor was literally depressed and people made fun of him :( he lived hundreds of years beforehand, having fun with his friends and not having any major responsibility. then in under 10 years he had his brother betray him, lost his mother, lost his father, had his sister who he didn't know existed try to kill him, lost his home, lost his closest/oldest friend, lost his brother right after they fixed their relationship, and was SO close to killing thanos but didn't, resulting in half the universe being wiped out and feeling the guilt of all of it. thor in endgame deserved better
Thor became a sort of comic relief when he was going through a deep depression after losing his family and his community. People taking to drink and breaking down after such tragedies isn't funny and shouldn't be used for laughs, even in kids' movies. Specially in kids' movies.
Honestly, it broke my heart the way they treated Thor, especially compared to how they handled Tony Stark's mental health in Iron Man 3. Tony's breakdowns and anxieties were portrayed as the painful burden of the great hero, whereas Thor was just the "fat", beer drinking guy everyone laughed at. I hated that, for many people mental health struggles aren't pretty or sexy, that doesn't mean they deserve less compassion and understanding
Why am I not surprised that The Big Bang Theory had a perfect example of a man tearing up being used as a cheap joke?
Because that show takes any chance it gets to be as subtly sexist as possible.
@@otrachicadeyoutube6853 I think were way past subtlety when it comes to that show.
Garbage show
To be fair, you'll probably have a hard time finding any comedy-sitcom that doesn't have these kind of jokes.
@@Vitorruy1 almost every comedy sitcom ever has that joke.
"But the myth that vulnerability is synonymous with a complete loss of control, and therefore incompatible with power, is so corrosive and so strong that many men have come to believe they must kill their emotional sides in order to be useful members of society."
brb just reevaluating my entire existance
Women believe it too
@@benhization Even as a woman, I used to be someone who never cried in front of others. I didn't like feeling of vulnerability. But as I've gotten older and gone through loss, I've realized that there is power in expressing emotions, even sadness. They only way to really deal with strong emotions is to feel them and move through them. If you hold them in, they eat away at you. If you let them free, you slowly become free yourself.
17:53
Such a powerful and meaningful statement.
I mean... that fact does have some truth. Many people do tend to act more irrational when driven by emotion.
But that doesn't mean emotion is a completely bad thing like how these movies portray it.
@@toasturhztoastbunz896 to be driven by emotion is different than showing emotion, as much as being emotion can lead to mistakes, the main point is being against men showing any emotion all together
I can't help but think about how men are so much more likely to die when they attempt suicide. Not only do we live in a world that rejects the vulnerability and pain that all men feel, but through that lens, to attempt suicide and not succeed would be the ultimate failure, a declaration of pain to the world while simultaneously showing you were too weak to handle it and also not brave enough to go all the way. In this toxic world, a life post-attempt would be even worse than before, so men have to be sure it is final. It is a huge tragedy.
Totally agree. Opening up is such a powerful thing and sometimes that's all someone needs to bounce back.
That's why it's normally very destructive and comes out of nowhere. They'll be normal for days, months, years and then gone. They very ones that claim people need to be such will mock them for attempting to be vulnerable like they asked.
As a person with Autism, I rarely, if ever, am capable of crying. Being able to cry is a gift, trust me. Don't take it for granted.
I have an emotional delay, alexithymia is the technical term I think. People have called me cold and heartless when I don't cry at the same time as everyone else, but they never see the crying mess I become after a few hours of sorting out my thoughts and feelings.
The weird thing is I'm very quick to cry at beautiful art, music, stories and nature photos. The catharsis after one of those cry sessions is something else.
Autist here too, for me it’s the opposite, I’m very emotional and I feel extremely pathetic.
I’ve been crying way more often after realizing autism is a curse and genocide-worthy, seeing how much fun all the neurotypicals around me are having without making others uncomfortable, triumphing in socializing and talking to girls… it makes me feel fucking pathetic and worthless, and the fact that I cry about it makes it even worse
@@SolurVoludun Autism is a strength and part of what makes you beautiful. I hope you come to realize that someday. No one is genocide-worthy. Being less comfortable in certain situations does not make you worthless or pathetic. It just makes you different from others. We all have the same human problems and are dealing with them in our own ways. Anyway, I hope you get the help you need and stop buying into whatever bullshit the internet is selling you.
Honestly same I cry maybe 2-3 times a year if even that sometimes I really just want to cry
One of the first things I ever noticed when trying to consume media critically was how cheap men crying in film/tv usually is. Like it tells the audience "Do you get how important this scene is, he's crying!" a lot of times without earning it!
Yeah, it's like that "Applause!" sign for the audience only that it says "Cry!!"
A weird thing I've noticed with myself is, I really resonate when there are real people (mainly male actors) shown to cry in real life situations on screen. Seeing someone choke up or letting the emotions come in those real situations, usually expressing love for another, gets to me in a way on screen acting-crying doesn't. I think because the real tears aren't cheap at all, not manufactured. And acting crying is seen fairly often, real ones aren't seen as often. Example, some parts in the behind the scenes of the Lord of the Rings, or Norm Macdonald crying in the final Letterman show.
Tears in movies are usually meant to be dramatic especially during an emotional scene, so when done right, it feels intense. Real life tears are usually "boring" as rude as it may sound. My boyfriend used to cry a lot, I wasn't moved or effected by it, I just comforted him with a hug and nice words and the tears were gone after 3 minutes. He reacts the same when I cry. He gives a little hug and advice and my tears disappear sooner than later. I'm glad that our tears are boring, if they were dramatic it would be really bad news.
I'm glad to see this stupid assumption changing. It's always been awful. Once my guy friend cried because he was hurt and he kept apologizing for not being manly, and coming off as "girly". Can't imagine how much they were bullied for tears to get to that stage.
I struggle to cry no matter how bad I may feel. I’m always taken aback by women’s ability to shed stress through tears be it an important exam or a falling out with a friend. And that’s all it really is, a healthy grounding tool, a physiological response to pain. But as a man it feels so monumental. I’ve shed tears only when people or animals in my life have died. I’ve never properly faced other stressful experiences in my life which I fear may have manifested into trauma. That’s the effect of toxic masculinity really.
@@pleaseenteraname8211 part of the ability to cry is from practice, but a lot of it is hormones too. I have times in my cycle where anything can make me cry, and other periods where I really feel the need to, but it’s physically impossible.
@@pleaseenteraname8211 it's also hard to show vulnerabilty in a place that is not safe. If I say that something is making me angry, or causing pain, or I have to cry... the last thing I want is for people to shame me for that.
It's easy to say 'men should not be ashamed to cry' when, if you are crying, it means you feel vulnerable, and if people is gonna add shame to that obviously you're gonna hold back...
Yeah, it never should've been made to start with.
I remember how in high school I was bullied by my classmate (a girl, by the way) and one day I came home and had a mental breakdown in front of my mother, and I kept apologizing for tears when I was explaining what was going on. It took me a few more years to realize that it's ok and even healthy for guys to cry and this revelation was like taking off a heavy backpack that I was carrying for years
This is why I love Korean dramas. Korean dramas not only have emotional and crying women, but men more often than not will unapolygetically SOB. Like full on ugly cry. It gets me crying so hard every time, but it really does help with destigmatising the stereotype!
Any you recommend? I liked the k2
@@stanthegreatman6592 I have a lot!
- 17 again (Lots of crying! - from the characters as well as me lol).
- Doom at your service. (Lead is kinda unemotional, but if he does cry it's THAT much more impactful!
- Angel's last mission: Love (the lead is so cute! has great emotional range!)
- Two cops (two bros just chilling and having heartfelt conversations and solving crime while one of them is in a coma!)
If you want more recs, i'd be happy to rec more!
It felt weird seeing it at first but, god, I wish Hollywood would let a few ugly cries slip
Koreans know what's up
@Stan The Great Man eh, i mean kdramas overdo it very often but its still refreshing (i.e sobbing on their bed over accidentally leaving smth at their crush's house).
my own personal rec is hotel del luna, emotional vulnerability, reversal of gender norms and just really good production, camera, acting, plotting... the character work is really good.
another rec is vincenzo based on the first couple of episodes. i cant say anything about how it deals with its set up but the set up has been really intriguing so far.
LISTEN, I clicked because the title was interesting, not because I wanted a deep reflection into my own relationship with crying and anger as a man. Very good video. Instant subscription.
"Crying like a little girl" is such a well of problematic implications that it's really just crazy that it is so common a phrase.
It's one of the few common phrases that has more identifiable problems than it has words.
Especially since little girls don't even cry more than little boys.
Little girl and little boy cries are pretty much identical anyway. Like if you called someone and their little kid was crying on the background, you wouldn't know to whom that cry belongs to, other than a little kid.
@Ryan Abrahams - The rise of professional women's Australian football has allowed some awesome teachable moments around that. There's one female player who is a damned near supernatural kicker, and I saw photos of her in flight being shared with "kick like a girl" superimposed.
I'm also confused...do little girls cry more than little boys? I don't understand where that came from...
Why do men in movies never cry at their own wedding? Literally every man I know who is married, if you ask him, will admit to tears on his big day. My brother is especially vocal about it, he said he couldn't tell what the dress looked like until the reception because his bride was just "a white mist". He's an army ranger, btw.
Weddings are like waterfalls of tears and I want to see that in media!
@@Logitah Asian media has better representation in that regard, at least when it comes to normalizing men crying and being physically affectionate with their friends.
My dad cried at his wedding too! I've seen him cry more than I've seen my mom cry, which is, never.
Never understood crying at a wedding. I didn't cry at mine for sure, but sure cry at your wedding I won't judge.
@@chadsims5090 happiness?
When I was 17 my grandpa passed away after a long battle with cancer, my entire family was sobbing at the funeral but I held it all in, not letting myself look weak in front of them.
Not shedding a tear for one of the greatest men I’ve ever known is still one of my biggest regrets.
who else got the "stop crying or ill give you something to cry about" treatment as if you started crying for no reason every single time lol
amazing video, thank you for bringing awareness! normalize having emotions like a human being
I just recently watched Avangers End Game and got really angry at how everybody tormented Thor for clearly been on a depression crises.
A lone god who goes back in time to see his dead mother, can't handle the pressure of the mission and breaks down, while a fuckin talking raccoon gets annoyed by it.
I am not sure if it was Hemsworth' performance, hints in the script, or my approach but I never saw it as a sign of Thors weakness but rather the other characters inability to deal with it. And the scene with his mother which allowed him to be cared for and find new ways for him of dealing was lovely. I know it was comedic but that to me didn't mean his feelings weren't presented as valid.
that is the sad thing about society...it is easy for people to critize other people for their situation.
Like he/she is bulied, because is different.
He/she is pour, because does not work.
He/she is in that situation, because is what they deserve.
People are not emphatically anymore, because they do not care about others and do not talk.
Look in the pubblic transport, where you living, taking the bus, train everyday and never talked with the passenger in there, even you see the everyday...we live in a society where you can not trust, care and so talk with others...and instead do it with a keyboard and machine in the so called internet....
*If you see it then good for you. Someone said, "People live lives of quiet desperation."*
*Thor showed one side, his criticizers showed another.*
@@obiwankenobi2083 What do you mean "anymore"? These kind of problems only get worse if you look at the previous couple of generations. Disconnection from your community is a different problem altogether. Men in close-knit communities crying in public were ostracized back in the 20th century harder than men crying openly in an apartment block in the 2020's. There's no "ideal" society to go back to, we need to fix this by doing things differently.
Crying is literally nature's stress-relieving gift to us. It physiologically 'drains' away stress and brings feelings of relief and peace. To deny men this powerful method of catharsis due to social structures and expectations is... downright cruel.
It certainly has this effect on women, but I've read that physiologically it doesn't confer the same benefits on men.
@@toomuchinformation Incorrect. I'm a dude, and crying is always enormous cathartic relief.
@@toomuchinformation That doesn’t make any sense. Men and women are different genders, not different species.
@@Hjernespreng You're but one example, I am talking more generally and based on research.
@@toomuchinformation where did you read that exactly?
The meme point hit kind of hard. I immediately thought about Will Smith. Poor guy was blatantly cheated on, with his wife basically being given a platform to more or less boast that she didn't give a shit. His years of marriage all going to piss and the guy couldn't shed a full tear, and was meme'd to death. I felt terrible and quite bitter about the woman and people who used it.
It’s crazy because it wasn’t until recently I realised getting angry to the point of agression is ALSO being emotional. When you think of “emotional” you imagine someone crying/grieving in hysteria even maybe. But that’s literally not the only time someone’s emotional. Angry to the point of fighting and punching is emotional; happy to the point of dancing and laughing is emotional; sad to the point of tears is also emotional.
This toxic display of vulnerability has been so ingrained into my head I couldn’t even acknowledge things as they are anymore. It’s upsetting to realise the negative effect society has on me. And why? How did it all start? I have no idea.
Growing up, my dad took "boys don't cry" literally and to the extreme. As in, we were not even permitted to cry at funerals. We had to stand there stone-faced. He's mellowed as he's aged, so now he doesn't get upset by other men or boys crying, but he still gets frustrated when he cries himself. I wonder how much healthier and happier a person he would be if he had been allowed to really feel his feelings.
I felt the same way, when i was in 5th or 6th grade, these older kids (probably middle schoolers or high schoolers) made fun of me because not just crying but saying "Venus" while crying and they mistook it to be something else and after that I stopped crying... now back then i didn't know that holding back my emotions would lead to negative effects to myself in the future. And now that i have a brighter future ahead of myself I'm allowing myself to cry more it just makes me feel stronger as a man to cry then have my emotions held back slowly breaking me down like a boulder in a large river
I’m female but from an British family- so I can relate especially not crying at funerals
Your dad sounds like a true man
@@Saddam-Hussein. a stupid man
@@Saddam-Hussein. say sike now
I remember my father telling me very literally "Boys don't cry, so stop it." I was around 7 or 8 at the time. It's probably no surprise that my family wasn't a very good place to grow up, so it took me about two decades to finally accept that feeling emotional is normal and not wrong. Resources like this video are very important for those of us who didn't get a healthy upbringing.
Damn. I have a 6 six year old nephew and I can't imagine, telling him off or shaming him, when he's genuinely upset about something. It's so heartbreaking, when kids are in emotional pain. Everything is still so raw and immediate for them at that age. I can only imagine, how painful it must have been, to experience this from a parent 😔
This is relatable. I had the same experience growing up.
same
My brother went through the same, my dad was full of rage. He would not only say things like that, but beat us if we showed emotion to his outbursts. Thank God my brother didn't turn his sadness into the same rage my dad had, but 20 years later, he suffers every day in silence, he pushes himself into work not to feel and can't keep any relationship because he doesn't dare expressing himself, it's so lonely. He only dares to show me, his little sister, how much he struggles, because there is no hiding, I have seen it first hand because we grew up together. I also have difficulty expressing myself, but I realize it's different for men because of many reasons. This video was so on point.
@Ryan Abrahams You sound like an awesome parent! Your kids are lucky to have you.
Love how you talk about men like this without putting down women. Love it so mucch
Paddy pimblett, a UFC fighter talked about this recently due to one of his friends committing suicide. It was one of the first times I’ve seen a “tough guy” break down in front of so many people. His message hit even harder. He said “I’d rather sit with you and listen to you cry on my shoulder than have to carry your casket next week at your funeral”
My father was a really good man, he never said to me "boys don't cry" but my school did pretty often, until one of my closest friend commits suicide, because of the expectations the school put on him, in that time I had 15 years, when i received the news i was...shocked to say the least, but I don't shed any tear, until I enter my home, my father see my face, he didn't know what happened, then he hugged me and just say "let it out" I cry over an hour.
Sadly my father left us 2 years ago, but I never forget what he do in that time, when I needed release the sadness I had in that day.
I'm sorry for your loss. May the good times stay in your memory forever.
I'm so sorry. I lost my best friend to suicide in 2019. I think if he had been able to cry and had less pressure to be the perfect man he'd still be alive.
Sorry for your loss. Seems like you had a great father.
@@GehennaGates one of the best.
What a great dad. I'm sorry for your loss
I also think we need to normalize the idea that tears are NOT just for being sad. It's your body's reaction when feeling too strong and need to release it. It can be triggered by ANY strong emotion: happiness, sadness, anger, frustation, anxiety - like literally anything. It's just a bodily function (unique to humans though which of course is interesting) and we should try and treat it more that way I think.
Very good point. Neutralising tears as a release.
same
@Personal Jesus thank you, Jesus.
I cry from stress
I cried after I got my wisdom teeth removed and wasn't because of pain or fear, it was just release from the tension of holding still for an hour during a very forceful procedure.
When people ask "are you crying" or say "don't cry.." I just feel like crying even more
I feel like the "you got beat up by a girl!" gag is on the same level as the "you're crying like a girl!" one. It frustrates the hell out of me that it's in everything.
Honestly saying "Are you crying?" in a mocking manner is such an asshole thing to do and idk why this trope is still a thing in shows + movies -- most people would probably ask "Are you okay?" SMH
That’s one of my favorite things about the Lord of the Rings movies, actually. The male characters, including so-called “manly man” Aragorn, all express their emotions freely. And they’re never ridiculed or seen as lesser by their companions. I really wish more popular media would follow suit. It’d make for much more interesting and diverse characters, in my opinion.
I love the fact that Sam is just openly allowed to *care* about his friend
it’s never shown as him being weak or (as easily could’ve been done) a comedic character trait.
And Frodo is allowed to express verbally how much he appreciates Sam for being there to support him.
Frodo’s independence is never seen as this hyper-masculine adversity to loved ones he just _cares_ so much about their safety
@@roseclouds5838 It's never shown as weak but people assert that they're queercoded, or LGBT+ representation otherwise.
Mmm yeah probably because they’re not on earth 🤷♀️
I think that’s one of the things that has kept me glued to that trilogy. We really do need more popular media to follow that example.
@@mechanomics2649 whenever male characters display non traditionally masculine traits (being small, emotionally open, etc.) they are quick to be claimed by the LGBT+ community as "queer-coded" which basically means "they could have put a queer character here but they didn't because they are homophobes". This is sometimes true of course but other times it just hurts the narrative of redefining masculinity as a spectrum of different behavioral traits other than the stereotype of the hyper masculine 'chad'.
When he cut to Zuko, I'm not ashamed to admit that I cried.
This stereotype is what made me keep quiet about my mental illness for years. It lead me to chronic depression, failing college, and nearly ending it all, permanently. What stopped it was my family, thinking of people like my little sister and grandma.
*Little girls cry for important reasons too.*
I can't stress this enough.
Like
@@24rival13 would say the same as boys
@@sirdandl283 Yeah
Oh hell yah! To both observations - that little girls cry for very serious reasons. And that little boys cry too for very serious reasons. In case of both, media completely downplays the gravity by turning both into a joke or an insult.
Well its fucking great then, that we live in a society that actually responds to girls crying rather than boys.
I bet you're one of those people that bitches about MRA's interrupting convos about women's issues, and then comes here to take a diahhrea shit on anything that doesn't center around you.
It’s so telling how starved of emotional release most guys are, whenever I tell my friends in my hyper macho field of work “go ahead and cry, it’s okay” or “don’t worry, you can have a little cry” they absolutely break down. The way I’ve seen guys lack emotional vulnerability to such toxic degrees scares me. No human should ever force themselves to be like this
As a man who has never actually cried, I don't see crying as a release or being vulnerable as much as i see it as wasteful and pointless, when the energy is better served doing something else. Anger, Sadness etc are useless they don't solve problems, They often become problems for someone else to deal with.
@@gabriellockhart that's honestly really sad.
@@gabriellockhart I honestly think that if you went to a therapist they could explain it better to you why it is important to connect with all of your emotions. Looking at such things as waste of time is same as considering sleep and exercise as also waste of time - but you know it is necessary to be healthy. Same goes for psychological health.
@Tristan Lane Crying is an expression of human identity--not a personality trait. The sooner you rid yourself of such internalized misogyny, the better off we'll all be for it.
@Tristan Lane I didn’t know you were a robot
My dad has a hard time expressing his emotions, but almost every time I've seen him cry, it was because he was telling me he loved me. I sometimes wonder what he'd be like if he hadn't been raised to hide his emotions. He has so much love in his heart, but it's like he's afraid to let it out.
“Men having to kill off their own emotions to be a proper member of society”
I did that throughout middle school and high school and now it’s hard for me to feel much anymore except for rage and anger. So thanks for mentioning all of this and covering this
this phrase always annoyed me, my little brother was crying once and my mom was like "don’t, boys don’t cry" and i looked at him and said "yes, they do. it’s ok" and my mom WAS FURIOUS
Good for you, keep up the good work 😊 Your brother will thank you for that support and validation
Hey, that’s great! I’m sure he will be able to express his feelings better if you encourage him to! : )
@@TheRealNabil
It's reasonable to expect an adult, male or female, to refrain from openly sobbing and temper tantrums at the slightest stress. But there's no reason that men and women shouldn't cry equal amounts about the same things.
Crying isn't one of the things that defines my femininity nor should it detract from masculinity.
@@TheRealNabil honest question, did you actually watch the video and understand it? Everything you just said goes against the entire point of the video. I think you missed quite a few points made here.
@@TheRealNabil
If your idea of manhood is so fucking fragile it can be invalidated by crying, it wasn’t good to begin with.
This phrase really fucked me up when I was younger, my parents said I should never cry unless someone had died. So I wouldn't allow myself to cry no matter what for about 8 years, and this, among other things, lead to my mental health fall into an absolute dumpster fire. I've only recently realized that that phase is a load of bullshit and have now stopped trying to stop myself and letting myself feel sadness and cry.
I was raised in kinda the same way in that whenever I cried I was seen to show weakness. I've only in the last few years realized that the only one to decide what constitutes weaness is myself, and I don't count tears as weakness.
this shit hit impacted me a lot as well (even if it wasn't directly because of this phrase; more so the cultural surroundings of "male cryage"). I literally bragged to other kids after the funeral of my grandma I had lived with the last year of her life that I hadn't cried at all during her funeral, because I took it as some sort of personal challenge not to due to this kinda thing. I was only 11 or 12.
110%
I grew up with something similar. I hope you're feeling better now, that sounds really difficult.
I get you man. It forced me to turn to self hurt when i feel extreme sadness, usually by being violent against a concrete wall. I'm extremely fortunate to have met my fiance who understood me. Eventually we both got past our own weaknesses and gained mental health. I wish you the same fortune.
i had a mental breakdown at school once and started crying. i was bullied a lot, and now i have almost lost the ability to cry.
It's seems like no one can win when they cry. When men do it they're "babies" or "unmanly". When women cry theyre "just being emotional" and aren't taken seriously. Crying is a perfectly natural response to things and a stress reliever. I never understood where this "we shouldn't cry" nonsense came from.
One of the most amazing things that happened in 2020 was when I met a guy late at night with his dog. It turns out the dog was sick and he felt like shit. I asked him if he needed a hug (covid be damned) he said no but did want a bro shake, when he got close he almost clawed his way into a hug and cried. It was crazy and vulnerable and exactly what he needed. We need to Make space for men To feel bad and connect with their feelings!
That's really beautiful, but sad too
Men really need to be cuddled more ;-;
@@regularshow960 everyone should have access to platonic consensual cuddles all the time.
@@owayasomething9295 yuck touch
Thank you for being there for him 😁
Damn, the bit where you spoke about acts of violence as a response to crying in film as the norm in cinema hit me hard. I'd never considered that before, but actually overwhelming how often that happens. Great video.
I am afraid to say that I as a female at time do the same thing. If emotions are deemed inconvenient they transform into other unhealthy out ways.
Growing up with Uncle Iroh, as a man, seeing it again just hit different. He is truly the ideal Father Figure so many of us wish we had.
In the Iliad, there is a particularly emotionnal scene where Priam comes to Achilles to ask him to give him his son Hector's body back, to bury it. Achilles had killed Hector because he had killed Patrocles. In that scene, bothe end up in tears and still Achilles is considered the ultimate hero. Odysseus is also portrayed crying several times in the Odyssey. I don't know when this changed, I remember reading medieval texts where kings were described as crying too without being ridiculous for it. I study ancient greek and ancient latin litterature, and also medieval history, but I don't remember exactly where I found that medieval description of a crying king.
Most movies depict crying men as "weak and useless", while angry men are "stong and capable".
By that logic it's preferable to cause more pain then to face it.
Makes you think.
It's survival brain.
Think about this too: in patriarchy and especially patriarchal media, if a man *must* cry, he can make up for some of the shame by mixing anger and brutality into his sorrow. If you cry while declaring your intention to torture and kill the person you blame for whatever is making you cry (or better yet, actually do those things while crying), this somehow makes it better! The "murdercry" in mass media deserves an analysis of its own.
WAR.
Justifications to war.
@@tankermottind I vote that we exclude John Wick from this analysis though, because anyone who kills a puppy deserves no less than death, whether you are masculine or feminine, we can all agree.
Berserk handles this pretty brilliantly by criticising the main character for using reckless vengeance as a way to handle his emotional trauma.
"Hatred is the place where a man who can't stand sadness goes."
They handled Thor's depression really really badly in Endgame. It was extremely upsetting. He is constantly ridiculed for having feelings. The LOTR and I think the Prequel trilogy in SW handle crying really well or general displays of emotion.
Yeah honestly, why do we always use men's pain as comedy? The only time we really see men expressing any pain in media is when he's avenging a dead girlfriend or kid lol(which is a whole nother conversation)
The way they treated Thor's weight was disgusting
I don't think that laughter and empathy are mutually exclusive. You can empathise with someone's mental health problems and still acknowledge that it sometimes manifests in amusing ways.
The jedis in the Prequel star wars trilogy was condemned for showing emotions thoufh
@@maximussaktish exactly. That’s the point. They were to closed off and nearly went extinct as a result of it. Rigidity is bad but discipline isn’t.
This made me notice that boys crying is a lot more common in anime than western movies. For example, in A Silent Voice the male lead actually gets his feelings explored and sobs at the end of the film for reasons of self-realization and growth. I also think of My Hero Academia where the male lead cries a lot in different situations.
Maybe they get a bit more leeway for being teenagers, but it’s still a lot more than western stuff.
"...violent retribution is presented as a replacement for the normal grieving process"
What a chilling thing to hear in a world where school shootings exist. Jesus.
I'm a therapist and women too apologise when they cry and say "it's weak" and I say "it's just a release of tension, it doesn't bother me at all, don't feel bad about it, you're not weak". Sometimes they believe me😔
That comment reminds me of the Fergie song “Big Girls Don’t Cry”, and it's true, as I’m easily guilty of doing that as well. Unfortunately, even us “big girls” tell ourselves that… 😔
@@QUARTERMASTEREMI6 Yes, we do. I used to as well. But not anymore. If doesn't pay rent, out it comes. And luckily I'm at the sort of age where no one dares mock you anymore. Or maybe I throw good side eye. No idea.
Same goes for domestic abuse. People say men find it hard to admit they are abused by women because it is embarrassing, as if women who get abused by men do not feel embarrassed, ashamed, and uncomfortable to admit they are being victimised.
@@SP-rk9ht Yes, that's true, these toxic "mayun" ideas harm both genders, just in different ways. We need to work at progressing as a society. But economic crises always tend to make people flee to tradition as if it's a cozy place, back in "ye olde days" when everything was supposedly better. Crises make us regress, and there's plenty to go around rn.
@@SP-rk9ht Uh, men who are victims of DV do find it much harder than women to come forward as they face far more ridicule, a serious lack of social support AND government assistance compare to women victims. Every single abuse victim deserves support, but frankly I find it appalling you would dismiss such a well researched and very inconspicuous social issue just because it disadvantages men more than women.
"Were you crying?"
"No I wasn't crying, I just have...sweaty eyes. No wait that's gross, yeah I was crying."
-The Amazing World of Gumball
Fantastic show.
Loved the show
One of my favorite examples of a character breaking the stereotypical "men don't cry" mold is Matt Murdock AKA Daredevil. At first glance he seems to embody a lot of the traits that action heroes do (isolation from others, lashing out in anger, etc.). But it's treated like a bad thing. His greatest successes come from embracing others and being vulnerable. He's also not just one to cry after a death. He openly weeps when he fears his best friend has walked out on his life for good or when he witnesses acts of evil that weigh heavy on him.
Holy shit i found a daredevil fan. MVP of this comment section xD
This just made me realize that one of the main way tomboys/butch/one-of-the-boys type women characters are masculine-coded is by similarly not crying/not showing emotions as intensely, almost more so than actually dressing/presenting as masculine the emotional range of a woman character is what signals that she is to be read as a masculine-coded/tough girl/tomboy type character
Because showing emotion freely is associated with vulnerability which is associated with weakness and femininity so to not be seen as feminine a woman cant be allowed to show emotion
Like other comments have said before me, this affects women too. Emotions are seen as a vulnerability. In order to be taken seriously, we must hide them. Even in health care, where empathy can be so beneficial to the patient, it is frown upon.
There was a recent episode of “sawbones” (the wife in that podcast is a doctor) where she talks about this - how it’s frowned on to admit vulnerability or cry or see a therapist in healthcare. The sawbones episode is titled “physician burnout” and as a mental health therapist with docs in my family, it was eye opening and concerning
@@sonorasgirl that sounds interesting, do you remember which episode?
being a healthcare worker and not being able to cry is really tough. we’re not even supposed to cry with joy! i saw a newborn baby, and it just made me want to cry because they were so tiny and cute and sweet, and the test we ran found that they were healthy, after such a long period of worry that had started weeks before they were born... but i couldn’t. i had to leave the room and head to the bathroom. so frustrating.
Yes, I feel really bad about myself when I cry for something “dump” like the stress from college or feeling that I’m not smart enough because I feel I’m being week and immature. Is so sad feeling so bad for normal emotions
This an excellent point that still boils down to sexism and patriarchy in the workplace - to be seen as ‘professional’ you must display stereotypical male traits or else risk being seen/treated as unworthy of being there - absolutely unhealthy and toxic behavior- that is a reality. It is so sad, as you said, that is is so pervasive in a profession that really needs empathy to be done successfully and effectively.
I know a family friend that as a female journalist in the 70s yelled at a female coworker for crying in the workplace. I can’t remember the exact wording but she wasn’t very nice about it. The internalization and sexism was so strong that seeing her female coworker displaying emotion she felt would reflect on her legitimacy of being there and she needed to stomp it out. She also was probably not totally unwarranted that she would be linked to the actions of her coworker because of sexism and their shared gender.
As you said, this still exists today in various forms and the pressure is probably greater is those professions that have been gatekept by males.
sorry for commenting so much but another thing i noticed is that, because women are EXPECTED to cry and expected to be emotional, our feelings will likely be invalidated just because it's expected that we "cry like a little girl"
Also reinforces the idea that crying is a sign of weakness, so by that extension society is seen with women as being weak
@@sullywully95 that’s a good point. it’s so interesting to analyse the effect of social standards on us
in my experience, when women cry there's always a male who's emotionally strong providing her emotional stability while she is vulnerable
@@massetozacarias5693 In my experience, there's no one, male or female.
especially in arguments or other situations where theyre pitted against eachother. once you get emotional its game over for women
This also explains why so many men tend to prefer the action/war movies. It gives them a chance to see men be vulnerable within those specific set of circumstances, and by extension, those emotional moments in the movies become one of those specific circumstances in which they themselves can cry. I can see why so many men don't like sappy/romance movies now; they are genuinely uncomfortable seeing that emotion because they have been conditioned to think and feel that way. Even equating crying with being a "little girl" implies that teenage girls and grown women should also not cry as much, especially when a female character in media appears to be "less emotional" and "tougher" than their male counterparts.
It literally happened to me that a friend responded with my sadness as “deal with it alone, you’re a man”. It felt like a gut punch.
even just watching all these clips of people crying did start making me tear up a little and were just gonna embrace it aren't we lads
Always embrace it 😤👌♥️
Boys have pain squad 💪😭❤️
hell yeah we'll embrace it!! :')
Same let’s go from 😢 -> 😭
Oh, yes. I was already starting, and then Iroh got to me fully. I cried. And that's fine.
The "Boys don't cry" thing has seriously fucked with me in the past when dealing with my mental health. I remember one time when I had an argument with my parents while my uni classes were falling apart. I cried after the phone call, and immediately felt like shit for it.
So, men, boys, and anyone else who needs it: you hereby have my official permission to cry because of every thing, be it stubbing a toe, depression, burning dinner or seeing a really small and cute bunny. There is no shame in it, and being able to show emotion is a sign of strength.
You just made my day, sir. Thank you.
Why is this like the most mature and well spoken comment section I’ve ever seen on youtube…
There is also the toxic male indoctrination of being told that showing emotion means your enemies win. We see this in plenty of movies (and many people experienced it in real life) where if a kid (usually a boy) is being bullied, picked on, tormented by peers; that crying will only further ridicule. This furthers more torment and teaches a cruel and backwards life lesson. Emotion brings you nothing but pain so you better hide it and don’t dare show it for fear of retribution. As if daring to show the emotion means that somehow the bullies won.
Of course then the kid usually beats up the bully further cementing that turning your pain into aggression is always the better way to go. While always satisfying to see a bully get what’s coming to him, it sadly perpetuates the stigma that the only way to solve problems is bury your emotions and then convert it to violence.
“The emotional labor of carrying men’s pain typically lies on the women in their lives, and more often than not, that support only goes one way.”
Damn
@Dawid XCX uhhm, have you ever heard of therapists?
@Dawid XCX well aren’t you a baby man
@Dawid XCX i'd explain to you how emotional processes work in healthy people, but you seem to have enough insecurity and aggression already to the point that you really need to see a therapist to work it out.
It's bizarre how clearly terrified you are of the idea of men having normal emotions and psychological processes.
@Dawid XCX I'm sorry but "labor" doesn't imply you're getting payed. In the case of the women performing what is called "emotional labor", it means they are the one managing the emotions of the men in their lives - they deal with their anger, sadness and else and actively help them get better. They also at the same time have to remain themselves polished and unphased to be efficient at it. That's why the complaint made about it in the case of women is that they have to take care of the emotions of the men in their lives, while neglecting their own.
@Dawid XCX But emotional labor does come up in jobs too - in many jobs people are essentially payed to take care of other people's emotional needs. Saying it exist does not means it is condoned - it just is naive to think that neoliberal ghouls( as you said) haven't already thought, for a long time now, about commodifying this kind of labor.
I can't help but notice a connection between "boys don't cry" and "boys will be boys." Tears are okay if they can be channeled into action...anger...aggression...violence.
please excuse his violence, he had to reassert himself as a man, you know how it is.
I always see so much "ooga booga man violent" but have literally never once in all my years seen a man who has grown up to think that.
Only women say that.
There is a difference between not showing emotion and intentionally being as much of an asshole as possible. Both men and women do it.
@@John.McMillan i think you misunderstood the first comment, they arent saying men are naturally violent. they are saying their emotions are EXPECTED and EXCUSED **IF** it takes the form of aggression and violence
@@John.McMillan
You, being a man, are not the target of male violence as a result of your gender . Women get harassed, attacked, and even kiIIed by men, and so we are more familiar with it. And when we report or complain, we are blamed for "provoking" the them, because lord knows men cant control themselves according to these people. SometimesYou need to shutup and listen to women instead of talking over us. Because I cant keep track of how often I witness or experience male violence and then told it was my (or the victim's) fault it happened. "Why did you go out looking like that? why did you trust him? why didnt you just leave? why didnt you report him to the police even though the police never help and you had no evidence?". There isnt a single woman I know who hasnt been abused by a man in her life, and each one of them was blamed for it happening.
Be it nature or nurture (probably both), there's an evolutionary reason why this might be the case. Since males are the ones that do the primary fighting in our species, a man that can't direct his depression towards action is less useful to the tribe (for defense) than one that can. Obviously action and aggression are closely linked, if, say, you just discovered the body of one of your siblings and need to prime your anger pumps in order to defend your other siblings. The line between crying depressively and being a pile of useless (at that moment) tears is different than for useful/not useful angry crying. Angry-crying is "predictably unpredictable," which has its place in (especially survival) settings.
that's really interesting how here sadness turns into anger, since I've observed that with me (a woman) anger almost immediately turns into sadness
I used to get in trouble for crying so much. I cried A LOT as a kid and eventually started getting in trouble for it. It has created a lot of bad problems for me. I was even able to convince myself “there’s no reason to cry, it doesn’t help” but I was wrong. It’s a valve for all the pressure. We men are stoic creatures, until we’re not.
It's crazy how many movies ask us to laugh at the idea of a man crying while watching a movie. A screenwriter has to write these jokes. A director has to film them. You'd think that people who love movies enough to make them for a living would be more understanding of somebody having a deeply emotional reaction to one.
+
I wish I could pin this comment
@@cg_edits
yup! great observation
Movies and TV definitely is unreasonably harsh to men crying.
What kind of movie are you watching? Almost Every time I watched a dude cry it's supposed to be an emotional moment where they all became vulnerable to their emotions and making it one of the best scenes of the movie I'm watching
in the beginning i was thinking, well isn't crying in movies quite common? but damn, you're right, those situations are so extreme and the more common instances are rather mocked and played for laughs.
Yes! I had to pause for a moment to remember recent situations where I’ve personally cried, just to compare. As a woman I’ve cried a lot in front of my friends and family, in situations where I felt overwhelmed, or because I was really sad without knowing why I was sad. It’s interesting though that I don’t cry in front of male figures in my life if I can help it.
@@owayasomething9295 ''It’s interesting though that I don’t cry in front of male figures in my life if I can help it.''
If i may ask, why do you think that is?
downer comment warning:
I work as a vet tech, so I frequently assist on euthanasia, which is one of those situations where it's permissible for men to cry. but I've heard this comment from many different (mostly women) co-workers throughout my years of doing this: that it is somehow MORE heartbreaking for them to see men cry specifically, phrased like "I don't always get emotional, but it hits me when I see the man crying." I've always felt weird about it. there's both a dismissal of the validity of women's tears in the same situation, and an almost reverence for the fact that we are witness to the supremely private sight of men's tears, which should be normal. even when they're experiencing the same sadness, the sadness of men and women isn't equal, and all parties are hurt by it.
Seeing all these cuts of men cruing from different movies makes me really notice how dry the tears look, to me it looks as if they are squeezing bits of water from their eyes, not actually crying.
My Father died two weeks ago.
I thought my boyfriend would only be slightly sad/show emotional support for me (which is great as well), but he was crying like a baby along with me, which made me so happy. He’s only known my father for a year, and yet he understood my pain so much.
I’m so glad to have a boyfriend so emotional and kind as him, he’s a big support.
I am sorry for your loss
Glad you have a supportive partner ❤️ Just want to reiterate I’m sorry for your loss.
So sorry..
Sorry for your loss
Im sorry for your loss, I went through the same thing 5 years ago, when my dad died suddenly.
Media: “crying like a little girl”
Me,a girl (woman): had an emotionally neglectful childhood, learned not to cry *in front of anyone*
You cry like a grown man.
@@TheRawrnstuff it would seem so
Ah I see we grew up the same. I always hid my tears and did absolutely everything I could to repress them. I will say however since I got an IUD a few years ago it's been 100% impossible to hold them back and some small thing can just send the tears coming, it's awful and I'm still not comfortable with it.
But on another note something I've noticeed is that in relationships men tend to not take women's anger seriously until we cry, sometimes not even then, so I've definitely been brought to that point (against my will of course) at several times. Ugh it's so annoying that we can't all just accept each other, emotions and all.
@@Vitaflickan I feel you, when I got pregnant I was really emotional but my husband can’t take the stress of my emotions so it’s a bit isolating to continue to keep everything in. So that’s on a human level but when I pray I cry a lot and that’s a big release, but even when I’m talking to God after I’m done crying I feel embarrassed. And yeah it would be great if everyone was more open and honest and vulnerable, I feel like my whole family is very closed off emotionally
@@avatarcharlie Awe, I'm sorry that you don't feel comfortable letting your emotions go :(
I've worked a lot on being emotionally open with my current boyfriend, we've both ugly cried in each other's arms and I find it's things like that that bring you to be so incredibly close to someone. Just trusting them to be there for you in your weakest moment.
The best is just laying your head in your partners lap and having them gently touch your hair or face while you talk about what's upsetting you. You don't even need to answer just aknowledge that you're listening. I think you could try to do this with your husband when one of you is stressed, it's a great relief! And you'll get closer, which is sooo important for us humans.
I'm not very religious but I'm glad you can find support from God, any bit helps and I'm sure God sees you as a child and wants the best for you so no need to be embarrased. We all need connection and any way we can get it is good!
This makes me feel happy that my parents never saw men crying as a childish thing. My own father is, what I consider, a real masculine man. He is kind, caring, and loves everyone. He has always tried to comfort me when I cried and never told me to stop crying and always understood that I was upset if I cried.
About the sports part: it seems that it's more acceptable for men to cry after winning (especially a big, prize-winning game), but not after losing. Interesting.
“I was never angry with you. I was sad, because I was afraid you lost your way.”
Im a wreck, Every. Single. Time.
God damn that shows so good
Uncle iroh. I always loved his character
He’s like a superhuman but specifically with compassion.
@@Solipsisticdaydreams we have seen him get upset before.
@@spencervance8484 those aren’t mutually exclusive.
I almost made it through the video without uncontrollably crying right up until Uncle Iroh showed up. Killed me instantly.
When I came out to my father as a transgender man, I was crying, I was terrified. His answer was "But you are reacting like a woman"
Wtf were you supposed to do? Do weights while coming out? Some people are just ridiculous
Sorry that happened to you man, hope you're doing ok
ugh that’s shitty, im sorry.
also transmasc, im more feminine and also happen be a human faucet (the two aren’t related IMO). im scared to cry because i know it has been and will be weaponized against my trans identity.
@@dicksdrugsanddebutantes9305 Honestly? Yeah lol. Some people will expect you to suddenly become as stereotypically masculine as humanly possible. The morning after I came out as trans my stepfather said "Now that you're a man you gotta know about football. Go grab us a couple beers from the fridge." I appreciate that that was his way of showing support, but also I hate sports lol
Hope you're okay! Honestly, that stereotype was what also prevented me from realizing about my masculinity a lot sooner.
"We live in an anti-relational, vulnerability-despising culture, one that not only fails to nurture the skills of connection but actively fears them."
That quote was from a book 21 years ago in a world without social media - let that sink in. Dear God, where are we now.
I know it for years but still... I can't cry in public.
The only one time I did, was in front on my best friend and I was drunk...
Sometimes I can't even cry in front of myself.
My favorite “something in my eyes” was from The Amazing World Of Gumball
“Have you been crying?”
“No! I just have really sweaty eyes. Wait, that's disgusting. Yeah, I was crying.”
Which episode is this from ?
@@summoninganubis7508
The Shell (season 3 episode 20)
@@Chris-mc2dt thank you 🌼💛
I just realised how it was Thor's vulnerability and grief and depression that were being played for laughs in endgame, and I feel really disappointed.
Oh it’s one of the reasons I hated endgame... this man lost his family, his planet, his friends, subjects.. etc in the span of 10 years.:. He is not ok. And they made it a joke... the entire movie was character assassinations as far as i’m concerned.
@@tinaloye2014 Think about Thor for one second, He is played as wallowing in self pity, When he is infact a warrior who has killed tens of thousands of people over his thousand plus years of life. How many families has Thor killed, How many kingdoms as he decimated...
@@gabriellockhart no one is excusing what he did. The whole point of his journey was to transition from the warrior type to someone who helped others... the same can’t be said for Odin or Hela or even Loki. Thor was probably the only one in that family who changed frankly. However, this isn’t wallowing in self pity. This is depression and it came at the cost of total familiar loss. That’s what we’re acknowledging. Characters can be complex. Things aren’t black and white. Endgame as bad as it was at least tried to show Thor processing grief (badly but it was done)
The line "I just have something in my eye" has also ruined those where you ACTUALLY do have something in your eye and another man asks you if you are crying and wont believe you
Don't pity the man who cries, pity the man who cannot cry.
I had a friend call me to a bar because he was in a really bad place and he needed someone to talk to, and he broke down while we sat there. I held him for about half an hour as he cried. People were pretty decent about it, trying not to stare but also not getting visibly irritated.
@@valletas He said people didn't get irritated. Why would they?
@@sseppel oh i missread the comment
Must feel good to be able to be there for your friend, and be trusted enough for them to call you 😊
@@sseppel I guess they’re tryna get drunk and have a good time, which sucks but understandable
That's so cool how people reacted to it. I am wondering how culture impacts how we express emotion, maybe in my country people would have been more nosy and would have stared or worse, made sarcastic jokes which doesn't really works in Breakdown
As a man who unintentionally cries when Im REALLY mad about something it's incredibly frustrating that this stereotype exists. My parents tell me I dont need to cry over stuff when I do sometimes and boy it sucks.
Even though I ain't no man, I also unintentionally cry when I'm really mad about something. People who argue with me don't take me or what I say seriously because of this, so I try to hold it in, to the point where my throat hurts oof.
@@mooshmooshtime7535 damn that sucks. Im sure it's even harder when some people already dont take what women have to say seriously, but to add "the emotional" part only worsens it.
I had the same reaction to anger when I was in my teens and early 20s. I suppressed the sadness and some other emotions, and then when I was angry, it was always hard not to cry, which frustrated me even more.
Once I learned to harness my anger, and feel all my feelings, including sadness, it stopped happening. I think suppressing my sadness manifested itself when I was angry, as anger was the only acceptable emotional outlet I would allow myself.
thats so valid. every emotion you do or don't feel is as just as valid as the next.
@@mooshmooshtime7535 Same! I’m not a guy, but I also cry out of frustration. People also don’t take me seriously when I shed tears. I feel like I’m looked upon like I’m sort of child when I do, especially since I look like a middle schooler.
I've seen my mom cry 5 times. My dad? None.
I really appreciate how people working in modern kid's animation try to correct these stigmas. The Owl House just had a special release where a character starts crying after being told he's part of the family now. For a split second, you think he's about to make a "something in my eye" joke, but he just doesn't.
I had a male friend tell me he had been chastised for crying by girlfriends before as it was not seen as not manly and thus unattractive. It was so heartbreaking to hear that and unsurprisingly he said it did affect his ability to be vulnerable with partners. I think about those women carrying around such a toxic attitude, whether from their own family dynamic or media influence, and how it can be too easily shut down men in this regard as they are already vulnerable to perpetual social cues telling them to repress their emotions. Intimate relationships may be the one outlet they have and to see that shutdown is so sad.
Things like this are just strengthening my want to be alone for the rest of my life.
@@b3nl555 don’t close yourself for people just because a lot of them are bad. Because most are not. Trust me.
@@b3nl555 What my friend told me was shocking because it was the exception. That is not the norm though exists. Every woman I personally know sees an emotionally open man as a strength.
@@RominaJones They say that or they do that?
@@b3nl555 Nothing wrong with that.
I didn’t expect this to teach me SO MUCH about my own deeply engrained concepts of masculinity. I consider myself to be pretty sensitive and open and yet I recognize the impulse to channel aggression as opposed to feeling the depth of grief. Even happy tears get choked back, even in private. I thought this was just a video about men and tears, but this is pretty foundational to our entire western concept of masculinity. I’m astonished.
yeah. Its good analysis. I agree.
This is why, if you have sons, it is so important to replace the words "don't cry" with "you can cry." Boys need to hear men telling them that feelings are okay, or they grow up to have exactly these issues.
It’s the overall idea of masculinity. But, unfortunately, it is all emotions when it comes to the East.
I'm far more open than I used to be, but I still couldn't cry when my mother died until I was speaking at her funeral, I couldn't even cry next to her body at the hospital. I feel like american society has done a great disservice to men with these outdated aristotelian notions of manhood.
You cry when you’re happy?
This is why something like "video games promote violence" is such a sweeping, bad-faith generalization. You have to ask the more nuanced questions, explored here, like "what is the violence shown instead of, or as a replacement for? What is shown as possible and acceptable?"
In defense of the one tear drop symbol. it's really hard to make yourself cry, and even more difficult to make yourself cry with both eyes.