A New Concept in Dowel Making?
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- Опубликовано: 5 июн 2024
- Part Two. I’ve possibly created a new product for dowel making. How much would it cost? Go on an epic half hour dowel making journey with me as I explore the current market for dowel makers, and make dowels with my prototype.
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Digital Plans to make your own!
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Chapters:
00:00. A new concept in dowel making.
02:43. Dowel makers - most expensive to least expensive.
07:21. My first dowel maker had too many pieces.
09:41. Using the wood prototype.
11:23. Using the aluminum prototype - softwood test.
27:23. Aluminum prototype - softwood final.
28:29. Using the aluminum prototype - hardwood.
31:30. How much would this product cost?
Hi. I am also a wood worker that loves making tools. Router lift, and table. 20” band saw to name a few tools I’ve made from scratch. A suggestion, how about a 45 degree bit. It would cut with the blade at the same orientation as a straight bit and you could use the router lift to “sneak up” on the cut.
I have the Veritas dowel maker. When you get it adjusted, it works fine. But your system for making arrow shafts (that is what I am doing) would perhaps save a bit of pushing on the stock. Once you have the complete jig with dust collector, etc, I would pay as much as I did for the Veritas because you would not need the expensive inserts. You would have to offer perhaps another set of wheels with finished outlet dimensions. I am using 23/64" for the final diameter for the wooden arrow shafts, BTW, I am cutting the shafts from Basswood, so quite soft. I like your jig!!
If you used a tapered router bit it will enable fine adjustment by raising or lowering the bit. A spiral upcut bit would even be better.
What if you use a 45deg bit? You’d be able to fine adjust with the riser
Even a 15-30deg bit would offer plenty of fine adjustment
Brilliant! That's an incredible suggestion. I'm going to try it,
I suggested the same thing before seeing yours….great minds……
I'd think an even shallower bit would give you the micro precision adjustment you are looking for like the Amana Tool 47144 Carbide Tipped Patternmakers 3 Deg x 3/4 D x 2-1/8 CH x 1/2 Inch SHK Router Bit
@@philrader2016 I didn't even know a 3 degree bit existed - thanks so much for sharing! That would be the perfect bit
I would have no problem with paying $100 for this system, but it really needs a micro adjustment to speed up the process. Having said that I don't think that with all the precision machining that needs to go into this that you could possibly make it for $100, let alone make even a tiny profit from it.
Maybe if Hondui manufactured it for him, I don't know the process though, check out their router planes they collaborated with another RUclipsr to make.
First, I must say how impressed I am with all your videos. I really enjoy your understated and analytical approach to solving a woodworking challenge. Second, I confess, I simply purchase my dowels as making my own never seemed worth the effort. However, after seeing your jig design, I would easily pay $100 to $150 US for it. I do agree that incorporating some type of micro-adjustment is essential. I am certain you are working on that improvement currently. I look forward to seeing the net iteration of your design - and your next video. Well done
I've used a few different methods for making dowels: dowel plate, veritas dowel/tenon maker, rounding plane. They all have their drawbacks. I did make a jig for the router to make tapered dowels but to get the angle the router ran over the material on a sloped sled. Unfortunately that means cutting with the end of the bit when obviously a router bit wants to be cutting from its sides ideally. As such the finish wasn't great but with yours using the side of the bit I can see it's a superior solution. The current issue seems to be building in micro adjustment as this is the most finicky aspect of the jig - as others have suggested perhaps try with a 45 degree chamfer bit as then raising the bit could provide your micro-adjustment.
I would pay over $100... If the setup were "fixed" (ie. I didn't have to adjust it to the router table.. some method was used to insure the mounting was correct every time) I would probably pay up to $400. Being able to make accurate dowels out the the same wood stock I'm building a unit with would be enough for me to splurge. It would need to be reliable and durable, though.. as the reason I would spend that is that I would use it with literally every project I used dowels on. I hope you decide to produce one.
AWESOME idea. I have made a few custom drum sticks on a lathe for a budding drummer who is my nephew. It takes too long to get consistent diameter drum sticks on a lathe by hand. I bought the same dowel maker you have and have not tried it yet. Your down maker would be 10 times better IMHO. For the outfeed holes is there any reason why they could not be ribbed versus smooth. This would cut down or eliminate the squeaking? WIth a proper dust collection shroud and bundled with the drill bit attachments for different square stock sizes I'd think $200 - $300 range for cost would be plausible. The trouble is that most DIY or even semi-pro woodworkers don't need to make hundreds of dowels. so for a tool that will only get used periodically it's "value" needs to exceed the "convenience" of just buying dowels.
If you put the edge of the holes a set distance from the edge of the full circle you could keep the router depth at the same setting for every size once it's dialed in. With the same idea you could design it so you just set the router at .5 inch with a gauge block.
Had same thought with one addition: If you shipped an aluminum cylinder matching the thickness of both the input/output holes so that it would be held perfectly centered, then you could slide this right to the bit and then clamp it down. Should be able to set it up in a single go since you're registering off the blade.
Very interesting, something to consider, thank you!
I am currently getting into building my own arrows for archery and upon doing research I came upon this video. I am searching for the best "dowel maker" for the money.( Buget is pretty tight.) While i can't justify $450-$10000, i would definitely break my own arm reaching for my wallet to drop $100 or so on this. I will be keeping my eye out for this even of i have to put a slight pause on my endeavors. I pray this does in fact hit the market soon.
Given an upgrade in fit & finish and the inclusion of base that would allow attachment of the jig to an Incra LS positioner (for dust control and 0.001" side to side adjustment) and a set sprockets for various wood sizes... I'd pay in the range of $300 - $400 (U.S.). Keep in mind your competitor for quality dowel finish is the Master Veritas Dowel Maker System (which I own). The veritas master system prices in at roughly $450. Good as the Veritas system is, it is finicky and prone to jamming. The proto-type you've demonstrated appears superior to the Veritas system and far more likely to produce smoother dowels with less effort..
I agree $100 would be very reasonable. I would like to see a pin on both wheels that would automatically index both wheels to the same alignment. You also could put a stop to meet the ball bearing at the top of the router bit (or alternately at the bottom with a pattern bit) to vastly cut down on fussing with positioning on the table. Very nicely thought out! More power to you. I would buy one.
Larger diameter spiral cutting bit will drastically improve speed and smoothness I predict.
Yes thats very smart, I'll try that.
Enjoyable two videos. There are several tools made in the old days that produced dowels. Either the tool was rotated or the stock was rotated. A fixed size was made with a rounder plane. One could make different sizes using a stail engine (aka witchet, adjustable rounder). For me, my dowels don't need to be as precise since I make them for shop made jigs to produce handles or to make threaded rods using a screw box (die). I hand plane the corners off and then rotate the stock using a drill and use a trapping plane. This is like a lemon squeezer with a plane on top and a groove on the bottom. For a dowel fitting into a hole, I get the dowel close and then just sneak up on the fit until it fits. It is very fast, but not as precise as your method.
As for why that well designed import dowel maker doesn't work: I think that the blade isn't skewed or wide enough. I have the same one and totally agree with your assessment. The corner of the blade should never interact with the wood. I added an outfeed hole for the only size I need and it still didn't help. I should try to shave the corners off the cutter, altough it is carbide and that may be difficult.
I have a few videos on my channel that show what I am discussing.
Here is one link about dowels from my channel
ruclips.net/video/jm1P5x-86Iw/видео.htmlsi=nhrLIqe16JNFmEyY
Agreed, I think CA$ 100 or EUR 100 is a fair price if the product features were properly implemented (vacuum connection). BTW, I would look at your second plate. There is still space for optimization, I think. First of all, the holes should be properly polished or reamed to remove unnecessary friction. Secondly, I would give each hole a rounded entrance, so that the pressure of a tight fit is applied gradually to the dowel as it advances into the hole. I think this could also help to remove chatter.
Very interested. Just tried the round over bit method on 3/4”x3/4” stock and a 3/8” bit. Didn’t come out round enough for my needs. Not sure why not either. Bit was too low or fence too close. I may try more expensive half round bits in just a couple sizes.
I really like what you're doing. Two cents that I can add from here, I'm sure you know aluminum heats up and expands real easy. I'd remake it out of steel and polish the inside where the wood slides through. I think you'll have less residue on the wood after use, and it will push through easier. I think if you added the micro-adjuster, yes, $100. Otherwise, I think 50ish would be fair.
I do'nt think a tapered bit will work but, I do think that a spiral bit will create a better result....
I have very high accuracy expectations from dowel making, since I make threaded wooden bolts that I use as fasteners for my woodworking projects--undersized dowels make for sloppy fitting threads and oversized dowels get stuck during thread tapping. I turn larger dowels 3/4" and higher on a legacy ornamental mill that I converted to CNC. That works pretty well, although I do tend to get a little bit of taper over the length of a 2 or 3 foot dowel due to the slop in the tailstock clamp on the Legacy. The legacy option fails below 3/4" dowels because the downward pressure of the router bit deflects the dowel making it inconsistent through the middle of the dowel unless the total length of the dowel is about 12" long or so.
For the smaller diameter dowels, I use the Veritas dowel maker. I go through a lot of waste to get the device dialed in, but extreme accuracy is possible. The weakness of the Veritas system is that it's only SAE and no metric option exists. The little bushings that go on the end of the machine need to be the right size, so using a 7/16" bushing to make a 10mm dowel just doesn't work all that well. My plan is to custom make some inserts for 10, 13 and 19mm to match up with the tapping tools from Dieter Schmid. The other weakness of the veritas is controlling the feed speed of the dowel, since a well adjusted set of cutters tend to pull the work though and pull the blank from the socket attached to the drill.
Every other option, the stanley 77 (which I've only seen and not used), the chinese tool you have (that I also own, and it isn't accurate to its stated dimensions), and the other veritas pencil sharpener type tool all suffer from having no outfeed support and anything other than a perfectly fed piece of stock will have unacceptable variations.
Dowel plates, and I'll include the impossible to get woodpeckers dowel press here(I want one, so PM me if any of you out there have one), can all ensure a consistent thickness, but the length of the dowel becomes a factor. there's no pounding a 3/8" 3 foot long dowel through a plate without messing it up somehow.
Of all of these options, the veritas dowel maker works the best for me. I was thinking that on the outfeed dial of your jig, you could add a chamfer on the router side so that the round stock can more easily find the finished hole. Looks like 1/2 or 3/4 inch plate, but I don't think you'd need more than 1/4" of length for that finished hole to perform that burnishing, at least that's how the veritas jig is designed.
Also, I appreciate how you solved micro adjustments, but I'd really rather see some type of micro adjustment on the jig so I could just screw it down and then move the jig from there, rather than unbolting it. Keeping the router bit centered in the jig would be my concern here that I'd want to solve, and if I loosen it to move it a bit, I'd be concerned about moving it out of center. The beall tool wood threading jig has a pin that you put in your router that connects to the jig to make sure it's centered. That could be of use when attaching your jig to a router base. Of course, I don't have holes in my router plate to screw to, so I'd be more likely to want to see this entire jig be mounted to a universal router plate that just slaps right on the router and then the router could be secured to my workbench in a vise or something. Either that, or like the beall wood threading jig, it clamps in your vise, so that would turn your jig upside down if it was router mounted.
Holding the blank level to the jig as you push it through is pretty tough in practice on my veritas jig, so I'd imagine the same problem exists for your router jig. In both cases, the dowel has to be cut enough to exit to the finish side of the plate to help you feel where you are pushing straight in. I'm not sure how to make this better when not using a table to reference from like you did.
You asked what it would be worth. To me, if I could get quick to adjust foolproof accuracy, I'd pay a lot, probably $150-$200 for what you have if it mounted directly to a router and not on a table. I don't think aluminum would be the final choice of material because I think it would stain the dowels like in your video, but I'm not totally certain of that. You would definitely be competing with the veritas, so it would have to be less than or equal to that. It does seem like your method could be slightly faster to fine tune, which would make it an interesting option.
Good luck!
Wow! It's obvious you've done very deep work exploring precision dowel making. I really appreciate the depth of your response - gives me so much to consider and think about. Thanks for taking the time to write this.
Kudos on a fantastic design. However if you don't have access to a cnc machine to make one out of aluminum, I wonder if you could use the wooden model with aluminum shaft collar inserts. Seems like it would work although you would have to figure out how to hold them in place securely. Just compression would fail over time so perhaps attaching a thin metal plate with cutouts on the back side slightly overlapping the edges of the collars would hold them in place.
You could probably charge up to $110 or so depending on the final design and build quality but I think at $80-85 it would sell like hotcakes to use an antique phrase. Sign me up!
Just a couple of questions and comment. Are you an engineer and do you use a cad? Your shop is one of the most well thought out and cleanest I’ve ever seen. The white is perfect for 5000 to 6500 k bouncing led or fluorescent lighting.
Great design, but not everyone has a vertical milling machine
Pat warner a woodworking author from a while back made a router table fence that pivots at one end the other end had a dial indicator and a fine screw adjustment using a threded rod. Its really easy to dial in with a dial indicator and the pivot and screw keeps things rigid while adjusting. Its also pretty simple. I have photos i can send you.
Yes that's really smart. A pivot solves a lot of rigidity issues. Thank you, very clever!
$100 is not out of line. What if you made it out of HDPE? It’s self lubricating, would not burn or stain the wood, easier to machine, cheaper and less dangerous if any of it accidentally came in contact with the router bit?
@@randsipe224 I actually tried that - made rings from acrylic, polycarbonate, HDPE, etc... hoping the low friction aspect would be a bonus. But they all got ripped up instantly. The hole gets enlarged very quickly.
Yes, the idea to include a back wall on the device so that it can be clamped to a fence shifts the fine tuning procedure to the fence, rather than clamping to the table, which is too fussy. There are numerous ways to micro-adjust fences, depending on the brand and design, even as simple as shimming with pieces of paper to sneak up on the optimum diameter.
the plasma/jet holes in that aluminum look a bit narly , probably work better to have them machined .......don't need dowels made myself ... i only cut down bonzai trees of the exact dimensions needed ;)
Hahah thats one of the funniest comments Ive ever gotten lol! Yes you're right, the laser work was disgusting. It honestly looked like a hacksaw cut.
I have some great ideas for how to improve it. I would love to discuss them with you. Let me know how to best contact you.
Thanks Bob! I'd love to hear any ideas you have, and very generous of you. Actually I just realized the private message function on YT has been removed. Let me set up an enquiry/conversation email and I'll send it tmrw.
What on earth is one sixtyforth
Point three Mill!
I checked its closer to 4mm
15 thousands of an inch
About half a poofteenth or a tenth of a tad or just a whisker under
@@geoffb108 half a poofteenth were you a typesetter in a former incarnation
You are nearly metric. Just readjust your basic complexity and relax the perfection factor. I never imagined that anyone could complicate such a simple process. Do you starch and press your underwear.
No oh only zero sorry to be picky military ruined me