Let's Go Raid a Wine Cellar (and Collect Wine) | Wine Folly
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 сен 2020
- How do you start a wine cellar? We asked a sommelier and cellar raider who builds and sells cellars how to start wine collection. Plus, see how we did raiding a 6000-bottle wine cellar! Get the guide → wfol.ly/3fhC99G
Curious to learn more about how to start a wine cellar? Read this article → winefolly.com/deep-dive/how-t...
Get the award-winning book → wfol.ly/3hVqtuQ
I met up with sommelier, Erik Segelbaum, in Seattle to talk about cellar raiding and how to start your wine collection. He had some valuable tips:
• The best wines to cellar are usually in the above $20 price point
• Avoid sweet rosé wines in your cellar, they don't age well or command a resale value.
• Buy what you'd like to drink.
• Try getting on a cellar raider's list, like Erik's at thesomlyay.com for good deals on older vintages.
• Producer trumps vintage every time. A "bad" vintage could actually cellar better in the long term
Wine Essentials
Wine Folly Magnum Edition: wfol.ly/2pnOf9S
Wine Folly Wine Journal: wfol.ly/2XeWyGl
Wine Styles Tasting Course: wfol.ly/37Kmhun
The Best Wine Opener: wfol.ly/2ZOwd3L
Universal Wine Glasses: wfol.ly/2zuwVVa
Wine Maps: wfol.ly/3wXcSv6
FOLLOW WINE FOLLY:
Website: winefolly.com
Instagram: / winefolly
Twitter: / winefolly
Facebook: / winefolly
“One bottle per week”
Not a sentence that ever passed any wine collector’s lips!
I had such a blast filming this with you! Thank you so much for going on this adventure in cellar raiding with me! For any of you that want on the cellar raider list or have a cellar that needs raiding, please reach me at contact@thesomlyay.com www.thesomlyay.com CHEERS!
Really enjoyed hearing the reasons why one would or should start a wine cellar at all. Got to have an end goal and purpose behind what you collect. I love that!
Love this vlog style video, really gives me an insight into who you are as a person and it makes me relate to you even more 😃
What a great and informative video. Really appreciated this one! Keep up the great content!
Thank you!
That North/Northwest-of-Seattle foliage at the beginning is unmistakable! Looked similar to my own front yard. I am shocked and pleased to hear that the 2011 vintage from WA is finally yielding great results! It was, thankfully, the end of several years of cool and weird weather before the spectacular 2012 vintages. Thanks for the info!
Fun and informative! Loved it. Thanks!
Thanks for posting!
Great video! And I absolutely agree with some wine going through a metamorphosis of quality during it's time in-bottle. Hard to predict sometimes!
Really enjoyed this video! I found it timely. I’ve recently started buying bottles to lay down for several years. My current cellar solution is a basement closet. Temperature hovers around 65-68 degrees in the summer, likely colder in the winter (TBD). My intent is to drink these bottles anywhere from 3-10 years from now. Hopefully somewhere in that time span I’ll be able to invest in a wine fridge like yours. My understanding is that the closet solution will be just fine for the next few years, so long as temps remain consistent without significant fluctuation. I’ve got a few Bourgognes from higher end producers, several Lopez de Heredia 2011 cubillos, and an assortment of other bottles. I’ll probably keep buying the LDH as that seems like a great value with lots of aging potential.
I’d be interested in another video in which you specifically discuss categories & characteristics of wines that offer great value + aging ability.
Love all the videos. Thank you!
Good good. Yeah, we could delve into this more :)
the video makes me go out today and buy a bottle. should not be that much of a problem here in south of Italy :D
Nice wine fridge! :)
Thanks for the Celsius shout out.
Yay !
>
great video, thanks!!!
great content! keep it up!!
They say the best way to be a millionaire is to be a billionaire and start a wine collection. ;)
Ha! True
Dang I'm a millionaire.
@@distlledbrewedreviewed I'll start your Go Fund Me
very true!!!
Mate. I really have only scratched the surface of wine, but we used to serve that Pesquie 2010 at the Restaurant and it could go for years still!
amazing Grenache!
Nice! Cant wait to build a cellar
You’re so cool. Thank you for sharing.
Randomly got dropped into watching your video by the algorithm... it was great! Thank you for sharing.
Awesome! Thank you!
Picked up some Beaux Freres Pinot Noir The Giant Ribbon Ridge AVA this year. Also holding on to Topaz “DLX” 2004. Discovering Topaz at The French Laundry was the spark to my interest in Noble Rot
Amazing video, I started my collection few years ago. I have about 140 bottles at this moment, need a larger wine fridge.
Would love to see some other videos with tips regarding wines worth of cellaring and aging.
you the best! Cheers
Can do. :)
@@Winefolly love it, thanks!
Do you recommend Artevino cooler? Cheers
Great vid! So, maybe a challenging question, how do I learn how to identify “value” in someone’s cellar being sold... you are an incredibly knowledgeable person, but as someone who is starting out (just finished my WSET2 going for CSW, IWS), value for an older wine isn’t one that’s detailed in my training...
i'm excited
That’s a sweet wine fridge! Any recommendations on fridges? From small to large?
Do you have the Artevino III plugged into a dedicated line? Or is it sharing juice with other appliances/things too?
Can u show full video of bottle opening because there was different bottle opener in this video
For example I found that Passito di Pantelleria from Donnafugata are quite good when they are two years old but amazing when they reach 6-12 years old.
im into the next wine !!!
Great vid I’ve been storing fronsac and pomerol since 1996, amazing value wine I’ve learnt the secret is buy 24 when you think is time try it ,if amazing flog the other box if not try a bottle each year until they are hopefully amazing flog the 12 in the unopened box hopefully they pay for the 24 @ your original purchase happy days
It is quite good content^^. I am waiting for your next video^^
Thank you 🤗
I'm collecting to pass them on to someone who just turned 1. Mostly from Napa Valley.
that's a time investment!
What vintage is the Lefage? Amazingly affordable for such a nice bottle.
Where and which wine fridge is best to buy???
Is there any way to verify the temperature that a fine wine has been stored?
Greetings from Italy, Tuscany is just 1/2 hours away from where I live 🇮🇹
I started collecting within the past couple of years buying mostly Chilean wines. I cannot find much information on cellaring South American wines.
Hi, im Augusto from Brazil! Love your channel! Do you really think 12°C its the best temperature to keep the wine? What about white, roses and sparkling wines?
You could go cooler. Currently, that's what I cellar both red and white wines.
@@Winefolly thanks! ;)
hi! thnks for that video! xD Acoording to the last part of it, I have a question: is a good idea to store my Sauternes 2012 for a couple of years? Altough that vintage was not good?
I remember that vintage. It was when the rains came late and partially rotten berries started to burst. Yquem made their "Y" white wine instead of Sauternes. Good question. I bet it's going to highly depend on the producer. Apparently, Jancis talked with Ch. Climens and their biodynamic vineyards faired okay: www.jancisrobinson.com/articles/sauternes-2012-not-a-write-off
@@Winefolly thnks!!! That article and your video help me a lot!!!
My father-in-law was asked me to find a home for his wines. 15-20 quality bottles. I have contacted a random internet buyer. I would rather do something that helped your efforts. Can you recommend something.
really cool
Betz and Force Majeure are both awesome producers. No one should be concerned about the ability of Washington wines to age (depending on the producer, quality, and style, of course.) I have had 20 and 30 year old Washington wines that were spectacular. Some producers, such as Quilceda Creek, Woodward Canyon, Leonetti Cellars, Andrew Will, Cayuse, Gramercy Cellars, and so many others, build very age worthy wines. Heck, last night we had a 2011 Walla Walla Vintners cabernet franc, and at 9 years old and over 7 years in the bottle, it showed zero signs of bottle age and had at least another decade to go - and that is only a $30 bottle of wine. A few months back, we had a 2006 Cayuse Cailloux Vineyard syrah, and that bad boy had at least another decade to go. It was spectacular, and showed no real signs of aging at the rim or on the palate. A few months before that, a 2005 Andrew Will Sorella was as fresh and powerful as could be. It was just beginning to gain some of those more mature flavors as a wine ages, but I am confident it had another decade or more left. The only challenge is, they are so darned delicious that it is hard to lay them down for 20 years. :) Great show!
Hi Madeline. I really like your way of communicating in a real-life "no-snob" fashion, keep your style ;o), and I will for sure be a reader for the long run. I started reading about wine 4-5 years ago, and I now have 2 big fridges, almost full with pretty good wines from Bordeaux, BUT, and here it comes....I cannot get down to 75% humidity like you recommend, only 60-62'ish (and I have stopped googling). In your prof opinion, will I get a dry cork issue? That would really ruin my day when I get older.... Some of the bottles will stay in fridges for 10-15 years. I would really appreciate your comment, and again, thanks for the enthusiasm. Best regards and cheers from Denmark, Glenn
Those are pretty good numbers imo. Perfection is a practice.
What kind of wine fridge do you have. I’ve been in the market for one but there are so many to pick from. Your looks aesthetically pleasing. Love the black with wood
Artevino by Eurocave. So far so good. Owned it for
Wine Folly What’s your next plan for storage when it fills? I’m stuck at your point and not sure what direction to go. Maybe a good follow up to this collection video is a “storage options” video? 🤔
@@adamjeziorski6830 I don't know where you live or what the weather conditions are where you like, but if you have a basement, storing wines against a cool, concrete exterior wall is a good idea. I am in northeastern Washington State, and the ambient temperature of the soil below the frost level is 55 degrees, which is perfect for wine storage. We have a 54 bottle VinoTemp in our dining room, which I have had for 15 years (!), and in the basement we have a closet that backs to a concrete foundation wall that stays around 58 degrees year around. I have simple wood wine racks in there, with racking for 144 bottles, plus room for cases, etc. That does the trick for us. We can store 200 to 300 bottles in excellent conditions, although we are lower in humidity here. Anyway, if you have a basement in your home, and one that is truly underground and has a spot next to a concrete foundation wall, you can easily build a closet backing up to that wall that will give you a very consistent year around temperature. Good luck!
I have a very nice bottle of 2018 Diemersdal Reserve Collection Merlot Malbec "Wine of origin Cape Town" that I have been keeping for a special occasion but don't know exactly how long I can keep it and when to drink it.
I would look up the technical information on this wine. Does it have a total acidity above 6 g/L? or a pH below 3.7? What's the alcohol level?
This gives us a clue. If these numbers are lower / higher than suggested, it might be one of those 1-5 year wines, that might go into a "dumb" phase if you plan to age them long term.
@@Winefolly Alc (%/vol) 14,23
TA (g/l) 6,1
RS (g/l) 1,8
pH 3,43
This is the notes I could find
I was so jealous seeing you open that wine. 🤤
I am finding that most of my Washington syrahs or syrah based blend's age extremely well. I opened a couple of months ago a 2015 Palencia GSM that we purchased in 2016 and it was so much better then what I remembered.
Kontos has their Aleatus blend which ages extremely well.
As for some whites, I had a very acidic Roussane the other day I had in my cellar for three years and ended up drain pouring it out.
My wine of the year last year was a 2012, red mountain syrah from Cotes de Ceil that the winemaker only released last year. He held onto his bottles for seven years because he wanted to bottle age it and it made a huge difference.
Palencia is making some spectacular wines! Kontos is excellent. I buy a lot of Gramercy syrahs and blends, Va Piano's high end syrahs, Saviah's estate wines, K Vintners single vineyard syrahs, and stuff like that. I love the "funk" of The Rocks. We are blessed to live in this area.
hi! i love your videos but i have not seen you talk about spanish wines - my favourite. try a vega sicilia then comment if you wish please!
Wine is like a human being. It changes so much over time. It has peaks and valleys.....finding that elusive moment when it’s at its best is the fun part. Do I buy multiple bottles of the same wine and try them periodically, sometimes just one a year!
In Finland we don't have warehouse services but we have wine cellars where you can rent cabin/cage for yourself. They usually hold 100-600 bottles and pricing is 0.5-1€/btl/yr (or much more if your cabin is not fully filled and you only rented it for prestige). These cellars also have tasting rooms that you can book for your private tastings. Only minority has their own private cellars because all our money goes to taxes.
Whoa, it's really nice to get the perspective of a Finnish wine enthusiast. Sounds like unless you're at the top level, it's difficult to get started. Do you have wine fridges like mine? (holds ~200 bottles)
@@Winefolly Sure there are winefridges. I had 3 in the past but I sold them when I moved to a small downtown apartment, and moved the bottles to rented cellar. It's better as you can have tastings for up to 20 people - that's seldom possible at home.
But the tastings are actually the thing. If I have learned correctly you (as in US people) don't actually do them except for money. Here we have "community driven" wine tastings almost every night of the week. They can be so high end that even then winemakers want to join from abroad because there are vintages they haven't even drank themselves ;) These cellars look like this www.nomadcellars.fi/
I noticed you lay your bottles in the wine fridge bottom facing. Is there a particular reason for this? I store it in the other direction. Thanks
Labels up is the typical way to do it. That cellar is willy nilly!
In the UK cellaring/investing is easier, there's a whole ecosystem involving merchants, portfolio managers, warehouses and the tax treatment is quite friendly. I myself have a few cases in a bonded warehouse here in London. And I don't even have space in my flat so the only way I can cellar properly is through these warehouses and the running costs are very low, around £10/12 bottles/year
So here in Seattle, they have warehouses that charge about $0.37 / bottle per year. It's kinda ridiculous! Totally worth it for the good stuff :)
@@Winefolly or the other option is to build a wine cellar if you have the space like I did. But if not, wine fridge or paying a place to store it. Salut!!!
Big fan of your channel from Japan 🇯🇵😀 I have a question with regard to the quality of California wine in general. I do not know if it is only me but I feel Cali’s wines taste different since 2016 vintage.... They taste less powerful and less density than previous vintages....
My favorites are Camus and Micheal David winery.
Anyone feel the same??! Or Are there any recommendation??
Peace and Love from Japan 🇯🇵
Yeah, I would say the whole world of quality is moving in a different direction right now. You can certainly buy and enjoy these big, bombastic wines, but what people are noticing is that they don't age well. A lot of high end producers are starting to dial back to wines with more structure (tannin, acidity, balanced alcohol) so that the wines have more staying power.
But it means they don't taste as big on release.
I remember sitting at a tasting with several Robert Parker 100-point rated wines that were 10 and 12 years old and thinking that they were over the hill. The Volatile Acidity was too high, the aromas were like overripe plums, almost like varnish. It was like the wine equivalent of 80s decor after 20 years of use.
Of course, I really think that Camus, Michael David, Hourglass, people like that, will continue to still make these bold wines. There is certainly a thirsty market for it! So, maybe it's a question of honing in who these guys are, and picking the vintages that are really ripe.
Hope this helps. or at least make us both think! (it certainly made me think)
She would be a blast to have a few glasses with her....I have a feeling she would be a blast of fun and knowledge
At 1:29 so far: now there's someone I reckon you will never have to worry about coming on to you :D
TRIPLE 9’s!!!!
Three questions. How accurate are professional reviewers drinking windows?
Is it true that Barolos have a dormant/dull period when aging? Are lower priced barolos made to be drunk younger.
I had an experience in the past where I bought some lower priced Barolos from an online discount wine house. I was trying to find some info on it but when I looked on the producer's web site I could not find the brand. So I contacted them and asked about it and found out that the wine was a label created for a supermarket chain in Italy that sold for about 15 dollars there. I paid more than that. The other thing is I cellered it for about a year and when I asked about longevity the producer said it better be consumed now. Luca Moroni says that good wine doesn't improve with age. What are your thoughts?
Are The Bottles Director's Cut Cellar wine material ?
I bought a bottle of Caymus 2017. When is the best time to open this bottle? How long should I store it, before drinking it?
Caymus is definitely more in the fruit-forward riper style of red wines, so I bet it's going to be one of those wines that goes into a "limp" phase like Erik Segelbaum was talking about. In my experience, that usually starts to happen at the 8-10 year mark. So, maybe anytime before then? (or hold one and wait through the limp phase and check again in like 15-20 years?)
@@Winefolly Thank you.
I think my collection is a little hipster-like
Dao, Douro, high altitude Argentina Malbec, Clare valley Riesling dominate my cellar.
Hopefully in a few years I'll be proud of my collection.
Sounds amazing. I'll be right over!!
Stupid question, Should you remove your wine from the box it comes with before putting it in the wine fridge or you can just put the box with the wine in it?
mostly that's a storage issue. It'll get cold, but take a little longer. So if you want it cold fast, I'd put it in without the box.
@@Winefolly thank you so much. Took it out the box as the box didn’t fit in the shelf.😂
I’m confuse with Red Wine. Should i chill it before opening or depends on the type of reds?
NEVER chill red wine and opening before drinking isnt a must do
20 minutes rule:
put whites in the fridge and take them out 20min before drinking. This will have them at about 10-12ish degrees C in your glass, which is ideal for most whites.
Put reds that are at room temperature in the fridge for 20min before drinking. You can already open them before chilling them a bit but leave the cork on to avoid fridge smells contaminating the wine. That should result in 15-16 degrees C in your glass. Red wine at 20degree C + lets alcohol overwhelm the rest of the flavours.
Hey MP, which opener is that?
I used a Coravin!
I came here to post that! I'll be looking for a Coravin now...
Nice video madam
What dry rosés are aging 10 years or longer? In my experience, rosé needs to be consumed within two years of the vintage date, otherwise it’s going to fall flat. Tertiary rosé characteristics?
Just had a 10 year old Cab Franc rosé the other day. It tasted more like a plummy, light-bodied red wine than a rosé. The cab franc had richer, wider fruit with bell pepper, and alleppo pepper. So, I think you would need one with solid red wine grape base such as Mourvèdre, Syrah, or maybe even Tempranillo. The subtle spice flavors come out.
Lopez de Heredia, Francois Cotat, and Domaine Tempier are the three I know of that age extremely well.
The “current” release vintage of Lopez De Heredia is 2010. It’s been aged a decade by them before it’s even released!
How long did those bottles sit out in the sun line that? 😬😬😬
Heh. Kinda glad someone noticed I knew someone would!! Just for the video - about an hour before they got shaded. We were worried to, but they stayed pretty cool. Not too hot day actually.
I’d like to vintage wines to have them at the peak of their taste. Maybe some of my wines may just be collected.
The only thing I don't like about your videos, Madeline, is that they never last long enough!
We can try some more long form stuff maybe..? (it's worth a try!)
I'm wanting to start my own collection but just to drink and give away. I've been torn between a fridge or a wine rack. I was recently told by a wine expert that a wine rack would be best. I have an apartment and can't get a cellar. Do you have any suggestions? I'm the most indecisive person alive!
I am in the same situation. My "cellar" is actually the bottom of a closet. Not the best, but temperature is steady, limited exposure to light, and nobody bothers it. Would love to get one of those wine units like Madeline has 🍷
@@billpalmer6481 I use a draw in my kitchen but I can only keep like 6 bottles at a time.
Get a fridge. Stores it at the right temperature. If you are drinking decent wine (>$20), you will want to open it for a while before you drink it. That will allow it to move from 55 degree storage temp to around 62/65 which is the best drinking temp (in my opinion). Unless you keep your house at 65 degrees, you are probably drinking your wines too warm.
We have a 54 bottle VinoTemp wine fridge, which is only about 3 feet tall and 30 inches wide. It doesn't take up too much space, and it keeps wines within a 3 degree temperature spread, which is pretty consistent. Some of those smaller wine fridges are fantastic. Ours is 15 years old now and still works great. One caveat, though... never put an electrical appliance like a fridge in an enclosed closet. You need air circulation around them. But hey... put some cardboard or something over the glass door to keep the light out, stick a lamp on top, and use it as a convenient end table! hahahaha
Nice video. Had to laugh at a bottle a week though, any decent wine drinker would be done in 16.48 years not counting parties or sick days. I think I'm more of a wine hoarder. I hate drinking the last of a good case so I keep it past it's prime.
Why does the humidity matter if the wine is stored in glass?
So the corks don't dry out, shrink and oxidise the wine.
keeps the cork from drying out. Albeit, if you had a cellar of all screw caps, I don't think it would matter as much. (did you know, one of Australia's top Shiraz is bottled under screw cap? It's totally legit!)
How do you maintain humidity in your wine fridge?
It depends. Two peoples drink 3 wines/week. Includ party’s, suns, acresce more3 . At least 24 a month. You need X wines in 5 years. Begin thinking in 1.500 bottles Adega. Maybe 2.000. Some news others medium age and another’s with something like more than six years. Now you always will drink wines prompted. To maintenance buy 2 boxes (12) each month
More like re-cell, am I right?
Dear tasters. A wonderful collection to sample. Warm outside. You ved in T-shirts.
How do you manage to maintain the recommended temperature of 16-18 degrees Celsius so that the taste of the wine is not lost? If you know any secret, please share. Or are you doing some kind of taste-temperature correction? You are pouring into a warm glass ... What is the temperature in the bottle? It's good that you have a wine cooler and a wine extractor. I would be grateful for your answer.
lol. I'm sure your significant other and I could have a great chat over a bottle of warm, delicious wine how uptight you sometimes act. But we'd forgive you after the first glass ;)
Yes, you're right. we totally risked my entire collection of bottles for the shot. (i was mildly fretting about it and immediately stashed 'em afterward) And I definitely knew this would be something someone would bring up if they were clued in! So, congratulations. You're that guy.
@@Winefolly Whew!!!
I have the Pesquié and the Tessallae and I personally don't think they age that well...
Yeah, I think I agree with you. I'm planning on drinking them within the year. I bought them because they were super values!
2. Resellers not offering wine at market value is simply not true. Think about it. If a large established reseller comes in and buys a whole vintage from a producer, they are going to get a good deal or they wouldn’t buy it. If the reseller has any skin in the game they will potentially sell it for less than the producer would.
Lol we sell a Jeroboam of Chateau Pesquie from 2010. €29,95, good deal uh?
Wow. I'll be right there ;)
That is a lot of wine for 30 euro
I will never have a wine cellar! I drink the wine.
im sure you've been asked this question many times...what is a better value....wine or beer.
Depends on your goals. If you're going for a buzz, buy a tasty beer, if you're looking for an adventure, get a bottle of wine.
Whisky
One bottle of wine a week on a collection of 6,000? Are you and your friend saying I’m a bit of a lush if I comfortably beat that run rate? 🤣
I definitely do more then that run rate too. It would take you 16.5 years at a bottle a day.
He got the wine in the sun?
Rethinking Washington wines!
I only collect to instill jealousy among my friends
Drink 1 bottle a week? I can easily drink 1 bottle a day
Then it would take you 16.43 years to drink a cellar that's 6,000 bottles deep.
I am the Tootsie Roll Owl of wine aging, so this video does not apply :)
In in.
Ya but 6000 bottles, one per dayyyyyy, doing the maaaaaathhhhhh ... so 16+ years. Still too long 🤔
Are there any, not is there any...
to be honest, and i,m not the first one that notice but come on, 1 bottle per week??
Um you mean I should not be drinking one bottle a night 🙊
I don't even know if I'll be here in 10 years, so I prefer to drink my wines now.
Maybe try some older bottles just to see how 10 years tastes on a wine. It really changes things!
It's weird seing people seemingly younger than me doing videos with this style and content.
Woo!!!! my favorite hottie wine drinker ;D :D :D :D :D :D I love yuuu miss I forgot your name I'm drunk right now xD