Venomoth did so much better than I thought it would! Even with all it's powerful status moves, the act of setting them up against every pokemon i thought that would add a lot to the time!
Venomoth is really cool but I never used it because of how late in the game it is. It would have been a great Mega or G-Max candidate, as its basically Mothra. I wouldnt mind seeing it again in Legends Z-A ❤
Venomoth's been completely screwed over by Game Freak - its stats doesn't match its learnset, it's only available in three regions, and it's never seen a Mega or a G-Max!
That final fight was slick in the end, just goes to show how busted sleep is in gens 1 and 2. That is certainly venomoth's strength though and like you say, you need to play to its strengths for the best time
It really does feel that way, doesn't it? The only argument I've seen against that theory is that Game Freak wouldn't have wanted two Bug/Poison Pokémon at the beginning of the game.
Yeah, but the way it is now you can make a case for müllerian or batesian mimicry, based on how much of a threat butterfree would be in-universe. In the games, venonat is a predator with highly toxic powder defenses. It makes sense for other less-threatening pokemon to evolve to look like it. Plus it would make sense then for venomoth to look different than butterfree which is trying to look like venonat. Since butterfree might be prey for venonat. Venomoth looking largely different would help keep cannibalism down. Or, in the case of müllerian mimicry, both venonat and butterfree evolve to look similar to each other, and since both are very toxic, they each confer anti-predation protection by doing so.
I remember a gimmick deck a friend used against me way back in the early days of the pokemon TCG. Eevee + eeveelutions with Venomoth. It was a bad deck, but the one time he managed to hit a Magmar with a Super Effective Venom Powder AND get the coin flip AND I lost the confusion damage flip to do the full 50 with 1 attack was great. (Venomoth could change type to any type in play, it's attack did 10, doubled with weakness, with a coin flip to confuse/poison. Poison ticks 10 every turn change and confusion required a coin flip to either attack normally, or deal 20 damage to yourself.)
Always loved Venomoth. Slightly agressive design, but not over the top like Beedrill and not a plushy like Butterfree. The perfect sweetspot! Moths in Pokémon are always on point. 🧡 Offtopic: Volcarona is a bad name, the german name Ramoth is alot cooler. Ra (Egypt Sun God) + Moth. Or just simple MothRa.
The German names for Pokémon are incredibly on-point, especially when compared to the English names! Ramoth sounds a hell of a lot cooler and much more intimidating than Volcarona!
Cool run, Venomoth was faster than expected, honestly. Btw, have you considered adding the level and number of resets each mon got to the leaderboard, or showing different rearanges of the leaderboard with the order of mons who managed to beat Red with the lowest level or the lowest amount of resets? I think it'd be a pretty cool alternate leaderboard and a way of trying to spice the runs a bit more, especially with the weaker mons.
Hey! All of those metrics are tracked in the leaderboard software, but for the sake of simplicity, the only thing I'm showing on screen at the moment is the final finishing time! Once we've done all of our main series runs, the plan is to have a video where we dissect all of them and go through other ways we could rank the Pokémon to see who comes out on top that way!
I would love to see gamefreak revisit this line. So much coverage and potential for either another evolution, a mega, or a gigantamax if they brought that back. I'd love to see a specialty move for venamoth like from the original card game jungle set I think where venamoth had that low damage status affliction move that did like 2 or 3 status conditions.
That would go a long way to helping Venomoth become more viable in modern Pokémon. A reskin of Sneasler's signature move Dire Claw would definitely be a good start. I also reckon giving it an ability similar to Dhelmise's where it gains STAB on its Psychic-type moves without having the Psychic type would also go a long way.
One of my favorite schoolyard theories is that Venomoth was originally going to be Caterpie's evolution. With Butterfree and Venomoth switching at some point.
That's a long time between catching! I think it got overshadowed in those games too. By the time you're able to catch it, most people already had a bug type in Butterfree.
venomoth is my fave pokemon of all time despite what my av may lead you to believe. she's an icon and a queen and one of the prettiest shinies ever devised
Why not teach sludge bomb earlier? What kind of value does return have over sludge bomb? Could have one-shot will's pokemon except slowbro and no reset. Could have a guaranteed two-shot on the lvl 50 dragonite. Belossom and jumpluff would have been one-shot as well. I just don't understand why you keep return for so long...? For those unaware: Sludge bomb with STAB has 135 base power while Return only maxes at 102. Both come from venomoths weaker physical attack
Sludge bomb is resisted by ground, rock, ghost and poison types, while steel is immune. Every ghost that you face is also poison so the psychic type move will be used. Rock and ground are hit supereffective by hp water and for steel types which is only the magnemite line, steelix and forretress you'll be using hp water as well. 10 more pp is almost like saying that you should run flame wheel over flamethrower
If you discount all remakes - so FRLG, HGSS, and Let's Go, Venomoth has the longest gap in availability! It's a shame, because I really think this Pokémon could do with something to make it more viable again after a couple of decades worth of power creep.
Hmm, wouldn't Sludge Bomb with the Poison Barb (held item) be better than Return because of STAB? (Even without the held item cuz STAB bonus so would be 120 effective power) Edit: I meant for earlier.
Sludge Bomb is a bit of a double-edged sword. It deals higher damage overall than Return, but the PP management becomes a huge pain for Kanto, and you waste more time healing than you save doing higher damage with Sludge Bomb!
I love the lure, then the butterfree line should switch with the venomoth line. So caterpie, metapod, should be venomoth, and venonat should evolve into butterfree
It isn't a disrespectful reference either. I would assume that anyone that watches that particular creator saw it was a Venomoth run and had the same thought.
It's a personal preference. In the same way I don't want my content being used by somebody else, I really don't want somebody else's content being used here.
I've just checked and Hidden Power Water would've two-shot the Charizard! On some previous resets, though, Venusaur had started using Sunny Day instead of SolarBeam on the first turn, so I got used to completely ignoring HP Water for the Charizard.
If anything, having the addational "mystery channel joke reference comments" would've helped your video stats/reach. And as others have said, I'm sure he should not be named would've been flattered!
Every single fully-evolved Pokémon is going to be given their chance to place on the leaderboard, and that does include Ditto. Whether it finishes or not is a different question, but I'm definitely giving it a go.
Venomoth did so much better than I thought it would! Even with all it's powerful status moves, the act of setting them up against every pokemon i thought that would add a lot to the time!
Some breeders have jokes about the correct typing of certain Pokémon, while you are the conspiracy theorist about the secret potion.
Every channel has their in-jokes. I totally get keeping them to their respective channels. But you still have my favorite with Lance, that liar.
I think Scott would enjoy the jokes but respect for the beginning bit
Venomoth is really cool but I never used it because of how late in the game it is. It would have been a great Mega or G-Max candidate, as its basically Mothra. I wouldnt mind seeing it again in Legends Z-A ❤
Venomoth's been completely screwed over by Game Freak - its stats doesn't match its learnset, it's only available in three regions, and it's never seen a Mega or a G-Max!
That final fight was slick in the end, just goes to show how busted sleep is in gens 1 and 2. That is certainly venomoth's strength though and like you say, you need to play to its strengths for the best time
I very much subscribe to the theory that GameFreak mixed up the final evolutions for the venonat and Caterpie lines
It really does feel that way, doesn't it? The only argument I've seen against that theory is that Game Freak wouldn't have wanted two Bug/Poison Pokémon at the beginning of the game.
Yeah, but the way it is now you can make a case for müllerian or batesian mimicry, based on how much of a threat butterfree would be in-universe.
In the games, venonat is a predator with highly toxic powder defenses. It makes sense for other less-threatening pokemon to evolve to look like it. Plus it would make sense then for venomoth to look different than butterfree which is trying to look like venonat. Since butterfree might be prey for venonat. Venomoth looking largely different would help keep cannibalism down.
Or, in the case of müllerian mimicry, both venonat and butterfree evolve to look similar to each other, and since both are very toxic, they each confer anti-predation protection by doing so.
I remember a gimmick deck a friend used against me way back in the early days of the pokemon TCG. Eevee + eeveelutions with Venomoth. It was a bad deck, but the one time he managed to hit a Magmar with a Super Effective Venom Powder AND get the coin flip AND I lost the confusion damage flip to do the full 50 with 1 attack was great.
(Venomoth could change type to any type in play, it's attack did 10, doubled with weakness, with a coin flip to confuse/poison. Poison ticks 10 every turn change and confusion required a coin flip to either attack normally, or deal 20 damage to yourself.)
I've never played the TCG properly, so I find this fascinating!
I love lamp
Excellent run king
Always loved Venomoth.
Slightly agressive design, but not over the top like Beedrill and not a plushy like Butterfree. The perfect sweetspot!
Moths in Pokémon are always on point. 🧡
Offtopic:
Volcarona is a bad name, the german name Ramoth is alot cooler.
Ra (Egypt Sun God) + Moth. Or just simple MothRa.
The German names for Pokémon are incredibly on-point, especially when compared to the English names!
Ramoth sounds a hell of a lot cooler and much more intimidating than Volcarona!
Cool run, Venomoth was faster than expected, honestly.
Btw, have you considered adding the level and number of resets each mon got to the leaderboard, or showing different rearanges of the leaderboard with the order of mons who managed to beat Red with the lowest level or the lowest amount of resets?
I think it'd be a pretty cool alternate leaderboard and a way of trying to spice the runs a bit more, especially with the weaker mons.
Hey!
All of those metrics are tracked in the leaderboard software, but for the sake of simplicity, the only thing I'm showing on screen at the moment is the final finishing time!
Once we've done all of our main series runs, the plan is to have a video where we dissect all of them and go through other ways we could rank the Pokémon to see who comes out on top that way!
@@Squidgy Ah, that's cool, man.
I was always a fan when the pokemons coverage is what you rely on rather than the stab moves
I would love to see gamefreak revisit this line. So much coverage and potential for either another evolution, a mega, or a gigantamax if they brought that back.
I'd love to see a specialty move for venamoth like from the original card game jungle set I think where venamoth had that low damage status affliction move that did like 2 or 3 status conditions.
That would go a long way to helping Venomoth become more viable in modern Pokémon. A reskin of Sneasler's signature move Dire Claw would definitely be a good start.
I also reckon giving it an ability similar to Dhelmise's where it gains STAB on its Psychic-type moves without having the Psychic type would also go a long way.
One of my favorite schoolyard theories is that Venomoth was originally going to be Caterpie's evolution. With Butterfree and Venomoth switching at some point.
Very happy for Venomoth that it got quite a few buffs in Gen 4 as it was very bad from Gens 1 to 3
That's right no other content creators, don't mention squidgy is built like Hugh Jackman in that one shirtless scene from the new Deadpool movie
Koga enters the chat.
That's a long time between catching! I think it got overshadowed in those games too. By the time you're able to catch it, most people already had a bug type in Butterfree.
venomoth is my fave pokemon of all time despite what my av may lead you to believe. she's an icon and a queen and one of the prettiest shinies ever devised
I think it's time for a regional variant of Venomoth that gains a third stage evolution!
The dragonslayer
Got that first like hooked up for you! This ought to be an interesting run.
I never knew disabled was so good
Thanks again Squidgy!
Why not teach sludge bomb earlier? What kind of value does return have over sludge bomb? Could have one-shot will's pokemon except slowbro and no reset. Could have a guaranteed two-shot on the lvl 50 dragonite. Belossom and jumpluff would have been one-shot as well. I just don't understand why you keep return for so long...?
For those unaware:
Sludge bomb with STAB has 135 base power while Return only maxes at 102. Both come from venomoths weaker physical attack
Return runs neutral on more Pokémon than Sludge Bomb, and has higher PP.
Yeah it runs neutral on the Pokemon that you're gonna hit with hp water or psychic anyway 😂
Sludge bomb is resisted by ground, rock, ghost and poison types, while steel is immune. Every ghost that you face is also poison so the psychic type move will be used. Rock and ground are hit supereffective by hp water and for steel types which is only the magnemite line, steelix and forretress you'll be using hp water as well. 10 more pp is almost like saying that you should run flame wheel over flamethrower
I wish Venomoth was more available outside of Kanto and Johto. The next game after HGSS it becomes usable in is SV
If you discount all remakes - so FRLG, HGSS, and Let's Go, Venomoth has the longest gap in availability! It's a shame, because I really think this Pokémon could do with something to make it more viable again after a couple of decades worth of power creep.
Hmm, wouldn't Sludge Bomb with the Poison Barb (held item) be better than Return because of STAB? (Even without the held item cuz STAB bonus so would be 120 effective power)
Edit: I meant for earlier.
Sludge Bomb is a bit of a double-edged sword. It deals higher damage overall than Return, but the PP management becomes a huge pain for Kanto, and you waste more time healing than you save doing higher damage with Sludge Bomb!
I love the lure, then the butterfree line should switch with the venomoth line. So caterpie, metapod, should be venomoth, and venonat should evolve into butterfree
How is it disrespectful to reference other creators? I'll respect your wishes, but I don't understand.
It isn't a disrespectful reference either. I would assume that anyone that watches that particular creator saw it was a Venomoth run and had the same thought.
It's a personal preference. In the same way I don't want my content being used by somebody else, I really don't want somebody else's content being used here.
I love venomoth ❤ more than butterfree just because I think it cooler in my eyes
Hmmm, I thinks Venonat is look like Butterfree more than Venomoth
Great video
So I was wondering, why didn't you use Hidden Power Water on the Charizard? Was the damage difference between it and Sludge Bomb not enough to matter?
I've just checked and Hidden Power Water would've two-shot the Charizard! On some previous resets, though, Venusaur had started using Sunny Day instead of SolarBeam on the first turn, so I got used to completely ignoring HP Water for the Charizard.
@@Squidgy Yeah I've done that too in pokemon crystal on the Red fight. You just get caught up in a pattern.
Even in the gen 1 games it still SUCKS and won't do much better against Milktank unless you kill IT in 1 hit.
Luckily I know of no jokes about Venemoth from anyone on RUclips, so luckily I have no chance to reference them, so I'm all good. 😊😊😊
Wouldn't sludge bomb be better than return due to STAB?
Return has higher PP and will run neutral on a lot more Pokémon, so it's more sustainable throughout a run.
If anything, having the addational "mystery channel joke reference comments" would've helped your video stats/reach. And as others have said, I'm sure he should not be named would've been flattered!
liked and commented :D
Comment
I don’t owe an ounce of respect to that “other” creator and his overrated channel. Good run though.
Are you going to be doing a ditto run ?
Every single fully-evolved Pokémon is going to be given their chance to place on the leaderboard, and that does include Ditto. Whether it finishes or not is a different question, but I'm definitely giving it a go.
@@Squidgy be an interesting one for sure 🫣