Summary 1:00 Rule #1: "It's better to start higher than lower." People will be a lot happier when you change it if its a price drop rather than a price increase. Also, people associate low prices with bad games. 3:20 Rule #2: "Control the comparison." So that customers don't compare your game with other games of similar price and potentially choose the other game, create two options (ie game vs game + soundtrack) and price the second one rather high so that customers compare those options instead of comparing your game to another game. The customer will see that your base game is really cheap compared to the more expensive option and will be more likely to buy it. 5:50 Rule #3: "When is doubt, test." Offer different prices in different advertisements and track the engagement relatative to the price.
I learned through another video on RUclips once, that people buy with their emotions and use their logical side to reason for their decision. So if a person who loves the color green sees a green bowl, then this person will buy the bowl because it's pretty and they like it, but they will say that they bought it to make food with it. The latter is the logical reasoning. Humans do this to convince ourselves that it's a good deal and that we need it, because buying because we like it isn't a good enough reason for our brains. This knowledge is probably good to keep in mind when it comes to targeting the audience for ones game. If your game has great graphics, then you already know that you probably shouldn't try to sell it to low poly lovers. And if it's a fantasy game, then you probably won't sell it to CS:GO lovers.
This is very true...which is why the presentation and marketing of your game is so important. Not just getting the eyeballs, but showing the eyeballs something that they emotionally connect with is a big part of sales.
its enough that some people are :) might as well do good presentation, its not like the people who actually do research and compare the game to others is going to be less likely to buy your game because the trailer looks nice. so no, i dont think that's an important thing to keep in mind. also i wouldnt call people dumb just because they buy something because they like it. if it makes them happy, the purchase was worth it, therefor not a dumb purchase
"buying because we like it isn't a good enough reason for our brains" More like that's what we're told. I can't tell you how many times I heard "Is it a want, or a need?" while growing up. We're taught that wanting things, no matter what it is, is greedy.
I can explain why your product was more popular at $30 than at $5. My mom used to own a small karaoke company, and we would go to parties and weddings, and all that fun stuff. We had a very low cost to make it more available to more people, because other companies in the area were incredibly expensive to hire. One day, a customer contacted us and basically said "When I saw how low your prices are, I was worried your service would be garbage, and I almost walked away". People have the mindset "You get what you pay for", which is often true. So if you have a great product at just $5, nobody is going to trust it.
Great to hear your thoughts on this rather tough subject. I originally planned on my first steam early access release to be priced at $7.99. By mistake I released it as $9.99. I originally had it priced at that but forgot to change it before hitting the button. Then I decided I was happy I did make what I thought was a mistake. I think if a game is priced too low it lowers the value of games which hurts all developers. Next people will think it's not much of a game. Sometimes people naturally think if something cost more it's better. On the flip side, if it's too expensive then the comparison thing comes into play. Also they may start to question if its worth it and want to wait for a sale.
I think you're right about too low. I learned this with my software. Sometimes a lower price can actually hinder sales...and in the case of indies, collectively it can hinder the industry.
Curious about that makeup split testing where you say "sorry it's not available yet". Presumably when it goes on sale at (for some) a higher price, they'll be pissed off that you misled them then upped the price, no? Or is there a factor in there that mediates that feeling? Also, 'don't be afraid to charge what you're worth' is great advice. People respond to strong confident pricing and associate it (within wide enough margins) with quality. That's why your $5 product sold better at $30. People probably came along expecting the service they were looking for to cost $20-50, and seeing it for $5 just made them think it would be inadequate or disappointing. Charge people what they expect.
Hey Kevin! So I was actually really scared of this exact thing, and I've tried it both ways. First, after they click on a testing price and they enter their name and email, I keep track of which offer they were looking at (you can add a hidden field in the web form, its easy to do). If the final product was higher than the price they saw, I sent them a discount code. But after doing this once or twice I decided to do it the other way and just launch at what I thought was appropriate based on the testing...and to my surprise, no one really spoke up or cared. So I've since just reverted to that. Test the price, and then just go with whatever one works. If someone does email you about it, you can make them happy im sure.
Interesting results. Thanks for sharing. One other angle on that. When they chose to buy or not buy the very first time, were they aware it was a test price? I assume not..
would putting out free dlc's be an attractive thing for potential buyers. advertising something like, "hey, buy this finished game and then you'll get more free missions n' such here and there."
Very late here. But as a gamer have you ever felt like free DLC are rlly smth? I mean they just kinda feel like they're part of the game. I say make the DLC paid, have a bundle with everything included for slightly more and in about 6 months make the DLC free. This way you have more marketing opportunities (per DLC and when the DLC goes free) and people will attract to the DLC more they'll think the DLC was worth 5 bucks but now they got it for free!
yeah I can understand the irrationality of pricing. people associate cheap prices with cheap products and have a mistrust for it. this means to me either go with a free model and in game purchases or charge $4.99 for a small mobile game. free with in game purchases is probably the best way to go if your game is short or else the $4.99 may feel like a rip off and people will remember your name and stay away. I think $2.99 is also a good price point.
I initially thought this was dumb, then I realized I bought Organ Trail last week under the same logic. The game + the soundtrack is literally 2x the base price and I thought the game was a steal..
Yeah as humans we like to think we're smarter than "Gimmicks" like these, but our brains are all very similar, and they work very similarly. That's why I love the book "Predictably Irrational". Not only is it a great title for human psychology, but its also a great book that goes into all sorts of weird things like this.
I think if you're going free-to-play, you really need a solid first few minutes. Since I'm not as invested, I am usually really quick to drop bad f2p games. Especially if it was a tiny download (even less invested).
I have seen another video of yours where you talk about the same thing for making a website with 3 different version and randomize the page that shows up. I see a lot of companies advertising their mobile games (Candy crush is an example) and when you click on the add, it brings you straight to the store and not a landing page. I feel like if you go to a landing page instead, it's an extra step that the user has to take to buy the game. I think apple store and Google play now has nicer product page than in the past. Does this really work for mobile games?
You took a lot of time to make your video so here is my experience with my first game on steam: i launched my game on early access with 15.99$ and my refund reached more than 50% and i asked steam to lower the price but rules is rules you can't change your price for one month after you launch your game so i ruined my game launch completely and got many bad review about the price after that i cut my price to 7.99$ and launched my game after 2 month as full fame out from early access and now my refund is around 2% so i learned you can't get away with your price and price is really important so make sure you give some free copy to some people and ask them how much they pay for it as you can't judge your own game price . wrong price can do a very big damage to your game that you couldn't expect it .
Thank you for sharing this dude! Always great to get other insights. Did your reviews mention the price specifically as the reason? or were there any other early access issues that could have skewed the data?
Yes actually almost 3 bad review from 8 total review mentioned the price is high. as for the game during early access and the full release was the same except i added a steam leader-board . but my refund fixed not only after the full release but after i fixed the price as i fixed the price before the full release so i am sure the price was the main problem.
Yea, but you'll also notice that a large amount of Steam users think that no game should be more than $10, and even that's a stretch to them. That's including massive AAA games.
I do have a quetion though, u said its easier to start from up going down for the price, but would that be u fair for thosw person who initially bought the game in a higher price when u lower?
Jhito Cabral Don't see it as ripping them off. People will buy stuff at a price they think the item is worth. If some people bought your game at $10 then they valued your game at $10. If you had a 50% sale. Those who bought it for $5 valued it at $5. That doesn't mean the people who valued it at $10 should feel ripped off. They were confident enough in your game to buy at full price.
That middle point seems a bit dishonest to me. Maybe you could make up for it by giving a discount on the soundtrack to players who bought the base game? Soundtrack + game for $20, soundtrack alone for $10, game alone for $10. If you already own the game, the soundtrack gets a 50% discount, so you save $5 by buying the game first and the soundtrack later.
That doesn't really make much sense. That essentially makes the bundle completely useless. Bundles should generally be a lower price than getting each item on it's own. It would make more sense to do this: Game+Soundtrack - $20 Game - $15 Soundtrack - $10 Then you save $5 for choosing the bundle.
Omg... it's great topic and your opinion is eyeopening, but this burping man! Maybe some quick video cuts? This is 1st video of yours that im watching and i really want to subscribe, but i'm still hearing burping :/ dunno... still... you're smart guy
Free2play is great because one of the biggest problems on app stores is piracy...and free2play games have their monetization built in, so that's cool. The downside is that in order to really make money from them you have to really know what you're doing. The actual design, the experience, and the economy need to be spot on for people to actually pay money, so take extra care in those things! Theres no right answer, only a series of pros and cons.
@@dacejoy02 Online... If it's an online game make sure they have to log into an account (can be your own service or Google Play Games) or have the game check it's connected to Google Play Games when you finish the first level or smth like that
Look at this as an example, you made 10 levels for your game, you put it put for free, the players play 3 levels then you request 5bucks for the rest of the levels to be unlocked for playing, how cool is that?
Sounds like a crappy implementation of the shareware model. Here's how you do it properly: Make the game in episodes. Each episode has roughly 1/Nth of the levels in the game (you do have some flexibility). Put out the first one for free, sell the remainder. Just make it clear on the episode selection screen. Grey out the ones that haven't been paid for or put "Registered Version Only" over their graphics. If they haven't bought the registered version, show the order info when they finish the first episode. This doesn't mean you can just divide the levels into blocks, you need some story to tie them together and give some closure at the end of an episode. Finish episode 1 of Doom, you get some text about how you've fought your way through the Phobos base and found the lost Deimos base. You've got closure on this part of your adventure, and a hook for the next part, which you now need to buy to find out what happens next. Yeah, it's pretty minimal story, but it's enough.
If you don't communicate that to them from the start, they are going to feel like you scammed them. If you want to do this, just release a paid version and a free demo.
Much easier to not follow rules and price a game at what it's actually worth. It will sell more copies this way because 9 out of 10 gamers buy a game for what it's worth. Plain and simple.
Summary
1:00 Rule #1: "It's better to start higher than lower." People will be a lot happier when you change it if its a price drop rather than a price increase. Also, people associate low prices with bad games.
3:20 Rule #2: "Control the comparison." So that customers don't compare your game with other games of similar price and potentially choose the other game, create two options (ie game vs game + soundtrack) and price the second one rather high so that customers compare those options instead of comparing your game to another game. The customer will see that your base game is really cheap compared to the more expensive option and will be more likely to buy it.
5:50 Rule #3: "When is doubt, test." Offer different prices in different advertisements and track the engagement relatative to the price.
Thanks for summarizing dude!
I learned through another video on RUclips once, that people buy with their emotions and use their logical side to reason for their decision. So if a person who loves the color green sees a green bowl, then this person will buy the bowl because it's pretty and they like it, but they will say that they bought it to make food with it. The latter is the logical reasoning. Humans do this to convince ourselves that it's a good deal and that we need it, because buying because we like it isn't a good enough reason for our brains. This knowledge is probably good to keep in mind when it comes to targeting the audience for ones game. If your game has great graphics, then you already know that you probably shouldn't try to sell it to low poly lovers. And if it's a fantasy game, then you probably won't sell it to CS:GO lovers.
This is very true...which is why the presentation and marketing of your game is so important. Not just getting the eyeballs, but showing the eyeballs something that they emotionally connect with is a big part of sales.
its enough that some people are :) might as well do good presentation, its not like the people who actually do research and compare the game to others is going to be less likely to buy your game because the trailer looks nice. so no, i dont think that's an important thing to keep in mind. also i wouldnt call people dumb just because they buy something because they like it. if it makes them happy, the purchase was worth it, therefor not a dumb purchase
"buying because we like it isn't a good enough reason for our brains"
More like that's what we're told. I can't tell you how many times I heard "Is it a want, or a need?" while growing up. We're taught that wanting things, no matter what it is, is greedy.
I can explain why your product was more popular at $30 than at $5. My mom used to own a small karaoke company, and we would go to parties and weddings, and all that fun stuff. We had a very low cost to make it more available to more people, because other companies in the area were incredibly expensive to hire. One day, a customer contacted us and basically said "When I saw how low your prices are, I was worried your service would be garbage, and I almost walked away".
People have the mindset "You get what you pay for", which is often true. So if you have a great product at just $5, nobody is going to trust it.
Great to hear your thoughts on this rather tough subject. I originally planned on my first steam early access release to be priced at $7.99. By mistake I released it as $9.99. I originally had it priced at that but forgot to change it before hitting the button. Then I decided I was happy I did make what I thought was a mistake.
I think if a game is priced too low it lowers the value of games which hurts all developers. Next people will think it's not much of a game. Sometimes people naturally think if something cost more it's better. On the flip side, if it's too expensive then the comparison thing comes into play. Also they may start to question if its worth it and want to wait for a sale.
I think you're right about too low. I learned this with my software. Sometimes a lower price can actually hinder sales...and in the case of indies, collectively it can hinder the industry.
Thoughts on revisit this topic, has it changed in the last 7 years?
Curious about that makeup split testing where you say "sorry it's not available yet". Presumably when it goes on sale at (for some) a higher price, they'll be pissed off that you misled them then upped the price, no?
Or is there a factor in there that mediates that feeling?
Also, 'don't be afraid to charge what you're worth' is great advice. People respond to strong confident pricing and associate it (within wide enough margins) with quality. That's why your $5 product sold better at $30. People probably came along expecting the service they were looking for to cost $20-50, and seeing it for $5 just made them think it would be inadequate or disappointing. Charge people what they expect.
Hey Kevin! So I was actually really scared of this exact thing, and I've tried it both ways. First, after they click on a testing price and they enter their name and email, I keep track of which offer they were looking at (you can add a hidden field in the web form, its easy to do). If the final product was higher than the price they saw, I sent them a discount code.
But after doing this once or twice I decided to do it the other way and just launch at what I thought was appropriate based on the testing...and to my surprise, no one really spoke up or cared. So I've since just reverted to that. Test the price, and then just go with whatever one works. If someone does email you about it, you can make them happy im sure.
Interesting results. Thanks for sharing.
One other angle on that. When they chose to buy or not buy the very first time, were they aware it was a test price? I assume not..
great insight into the indie game market! Ill use your advice for the game I'm developing
Do it!
Game Tech & Match how its called?
This is a really good video. I initially intended to set the price at $2.99, but now I've decided to price it at $4.99.
would putting out free dlc's be an attractive thing for potential buyers. advertising something like, "hey, buy this finished game and then you'll get more free missions n' such here and there."
It could. Each DLC would also be an excuse for another promotion, marketing push, or press outreach as well.
I assume it's not very hard doing updates? i'm in the mists of making my first game (a small small small game)
Very late here. But as a gamer have you ever felt like free DLC are rlly smth? I mean they just kinda feel like they're part of the game. I say make the DLC paid, have a bundle with everything included for slightly more and in about 6 months make the DLC free. This way you have more marketing opportunities (per DLC and when the DLC goes free) and people will attract to the DLC more they'll think the DLC was worth 5 bucks but now they got it for free!
Thank you so much, it's really helpful and you truly know what you're talking about! I bet 90% of us had this question
yeah I can understand the irrationality of pricing. people associate cheap prices with cheap products and have a mistrust for it. this means to me either go with a free model and in game purchases or charge $4.99 for a small mobile game. free with in game purchases is probably the best way to go if your game is short or else the $4.99 may feel like a rip off and people will remember your name and stay away. I think $2.99 is also a good price point.
Im all for experimenting! I think like I said here, when in doubt test. And hey, starting higher is always better than starting lower.
Obesity Bee You can always start at $10 and then later have a 50% off sale. People will see that 50% and now see the game as a deal
Heck even the 75% off deals are extremely appetizing with a $10 product.
This .99 thing is so annoying, I already happened not to buy things because of it. It costs $5.00, just say it, not $4.99.
I initially thought this was dumb, then I realized I bought Organ Trail last week under the same logic. The game + the soundtrack is literally 2x the base price and I thought the game was a steal..
Yeah as humans we like to think we're smarter than "Gimmicks" like these, but our brains are all very similar, and they work very similarly. That's why I love the book "Predictably Irrational". Not only is it a great title for human psychology, but its also a great book that goes into all sorts of weird things like this.
I think if you're going free-to-play, you really need a solid first few minutes. Since I'm not as invested, I am usually really quick to drop bad f2p games. Especially if it was a tiny download (even less invested).
100% agree. You need a great opening experience, and you really need to put thought into your economy.
I came out of this video wanting to hire him. Did this guy just successfully market his marketing company? Dang, he's good.
TheKrigeron and he did it all while teaching us marketing!
Ah, I was waiting for a video on this.
Well guess who delivered B)
Wow, very impressive arcane knowledge you have sir!
I have seen another video of yours where you talk about the same thing for making a website with 3 different version and randomize the page that shows up. I see a lot of companies advertising their mobile games (Candy crush is an example) and when you click on the add, it brings you straight to the store and not a landing page. I feel like if you go to a landing page instead, it's an extra step that the user has to take to buy the game. I think apple store and Google play now has nicer product page than in the past. Does this really work for mobile games?
You took a lot of time to make your video so here is my experience with my first game on steam: i launched my game on early access with 15.99$ and my refund reached more than 50% and i asked steam to lower the price but rules is rules you can't change your price for one month after you launch your game so i ruined my game launch completely and got many bad review about the price after that i cut my price to 7.99$ and launched my game after 2 month as full fame out from early access and now my refund is around 2% so i learned you can't get away with your price and price is really important so make sure you give some free copy to some people and ask them how much they pay for it as you can't judge your own game price . wrong price can do a very big damage to your game that you couldn't expect it .
Thank you for sharing this dude! Always great to get other insights. Did your reviews mention the price specifically as the reason? or were there any other early access issues that could have skewed the data?
Yes actually almost 3 bad review from 8 total review mentioned the price is high. as for the game during early access and the full release was the same except i added a steam leader-board . but my refund fixed not only after the full release but after i fixed the price as i fixed the price before the full release so i am sure the price was the main problem.
Yea, but you'll also notice that a large amount of Steam users think that no game should be more than $10, and even that's a stretch to them. That's including massive AAA games.
I do have a quetion though, u said its easier to start from up going down for the price, but would that be u fair for thosw person who initially bought the game in a higher price when u lower?
I go into gamestop all the time and I see games for cheaper than they were a month ago...I do not complain. This is part of business.
Jhito Cabral Don't see it as ripping them off. People will buy stuff at a price they think the item is worth. If some people bought your game at $10 then they valued your game at $10. If you had a 50% sale. Those who bought it for $5 valued it at $5. That doesn't mean the people who valued it at $10 should feel ripped off. They were confident enough in your game to buy at full price.
They paid to play the game earlier. If you wait for something to become cheaper you have lost time you could've played the game
sir, what the computers you are using
Thank you very much,
great videos on your channel, thanks man !
Pan that camera down just a little please :D
You got a sub mate
That middle point seems a bit dishonest to me. Maybe you could make up for it by giving a discount on the soundtrack to players who bought the base game?
Soundtrack + game for $20, soundtrack alone for $10, game alone for $10. If you already own the game, the soundtrack gets a 50% discount, so you save $5 by buying the game first and the soundtrack later.
That doesn't really make much sense. That essentially makes the bundle completely useless. Bundles should generally be a lower price than getting each item on it's own. It would make more sense to do this:
Game+Soundtrack - $20
Game - $15
Soundtrack - $10
Then you save $5 for choosing the bundle.
Yeah, I think I must have been thinking a bit reactionarily (is that a word?) at the time. It does seem a bit nonsensical, doesn't it?
Omg... it's great topic and your opinion is eyeopening, but this burping man! Maybe some quick video cuts? This is 1st video of yours that im watching and i really want to subscribe, but i'm still hearing burping :/ dunno... still... you're smart guy
Bruh leave
Is making a mobile game free to play a good option or is that a disastrous approach?
Free2play is great because one of the biggest problems on app stores is piracy...and free2play games have their monetization built in, so that's cool. The downside is that in order to really make money from them you have to really know what you're doing. The actual design, the experience, and the economy need to be spot on for people to actually pay money, so take extra care in those things!
Theres no right answer, only a series of pros and cons.
Game Dev Underground How do you prevent people from using apps like LuckyPatcher on you free2play game and how can you prevent it?
@@dacejoy02 Online... If it's an online game make sure they have to log into an account (can be your own service or Google Play Games) or have the game check it's connected to Google Play Games when you finish the first level or smth like that
5/5
Look at this as an example, you made 10 levels for your game, you put it put for free, the players play 3 levels then you request 5bucks for the rest of the levels to be unlocked for playing, how cool is that?
Sounds like a crappy implementation of the shareware model.
Here's how you do it properly: Make the game in episodes. Each episode has roughly 1/Nth of the levels in the game (you do have some flexibility). Put out the first one for free, sell the remainder. Just make it clear on the episode selection screen. Grey out the ones that haven't been paid for or put "Registered Version Only" over their graphics. If they haven't bought the registered version, show the order info when they finish the first episode.
This doesn't mean you can just divide the levels into blocks, you need some story to tie them together and give some closure at the end of an episode. Finish episode 1 of Doom, you get some text about how you've fought your way through the Phobos base and found the lost Deimos base. You've got closure on this part of your adventure, and a hook for the next part, which you now need to buy to find out what happens next. Yeah, it's pretty minimal story, but it's enough.
If you don't communicate that to them from the start, they are going to feel like you scammed them. If you want to do this, just release a paid version and a free demo.
First :3 haha hice video ;)
Thanks!
Much easier to not follow rules and price a game at what it's actually worth. It will sell more copies this way because 9 out of 10 gamers buy a game for what it's worth. Plain and simple.