What Makes A Game Fun - 3 Tips To Make A Fun Game
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- What makes a game fun? How do we know when a game is actually fun? How do you design fun when there are so many different ways to create it? In this video I talk about 3 core concepts of fun.
67 Tips for Game Developers: gdu.io/insiders...
Serious about success in game development? Wanna make indie games that ROCK?! Join Underground ELITE:
/ gamedevunderground
** FOLLOW ME: **
Twitter: / timruswick
** FOLLOW GDU: **
Blog: gdu.io/blog/
Twitter: / gamedevudg
Facebook: / gamedevudg
Discord: / discord
If you are an indie developer and you are looking for a fantastic community and help to refine, manage, and market your game, join us!
gdu.io
It goes back to the origins of "play". Children play as a natural way to learn about the world around them. Learning later gets ruined by school, where what you learn is literally dictated by someone else. However when we play games, that control seems to be given back. We're given a situation and some rules, and told to figure things out. Then when those rules are consistent and make sense we learn how we can use those rules to complete challenges and progress forward, and that creates a sense of wonder. I think you hit the nail on the head with your list, but I'd like to add that it should be in the context of learning. These things themselves aren't fun. For example, take a rock paper scissors game against a simple AI. Dispite your choices, whatever option you pick will lead to a win, loose, or tie at random. Even though there is a challenge to beat the AI, you cannot learn from your successes nor failures, and even if there is a progression system, it will leave no impression on you. However once you give that AI patterns that the player can learn from, or once there is a second player, the game gets much deeper and more fulfilling because the player is studying their opponant, and learning and adapting from their choices.
ye
The word consistent there is huge. Consistency is a major factor for me as a player when I’m trying to learn the game
I'm definitely in favor of looking at it through the lens of childlike play. The academic theoretical lens seems too reductive in one way or another (when it's trying to be broad and all-encompassing, as opposed to focusing on a particular type of mechanic and its execution). And it's for this reason, the progression-based model that is so pervasive gives me pause. I think it works really well in certain contexts, but I think it's safe to say kids don't play *for* a sense of progression, the progression they get through play is often incidental.
Like I remember playing with legos as a kid and I remember a certain sense of pride from figuring out how to make structurally sound things and make creative combinations of bricks that were my own invention. But I wasn't playing *for* that sense of pride, I was playing because putting the pieces together in creative ways was fun, I don't think it was any deeper than that.
So I think there can be a problem with putting the focus on linear progression systems as a *motivation* for play, even if they are procedurally-made to keep going on forever. And I would say the same about challenges and learning.
I think if there is a motivation that is central to it, it is to do something that is inherently non-serious (as in, there is a certain sense of cultural "safety" to it, you are not risking violating some kind of social rules) and has some kind of set of rules (which is important for it assuring you there are boundaries, so you know you won't cross over into something serious). I'm hesitant to argue there is anything more all-encompassing than that when it comes to play. The boundaries seem to be what is most important and it may have something to do with why "cheats" can feel like they "ruin" a game. If the boundaries are too easy to violate, or are shaky and unclear, you end up with uncertainty about the seriousness of the play and it becomes difficult to lose yourself in it.
@@TransparentLabyrinth Yes, "Journey Before Destination". I don't think the lesson learned or knowledge or experience gained is what makes play fun. But the process of experimenting and figuring things out is satisfying in it's own way.
@@LinkingYellow Yeah, that makes sense to me.
You had me at wonder. That's one of my favorite words.
I think player customization is a big part of the fun aspect for me in video games, even if it’s small.
If games are too complicated theyre not fun too. Im a fan of oldschool NES or SNES games like for example TLoZ. Its simple, its fun and it works. Its pure exploring. And I would like to make games like that
Humour and characters play a big part too
Thanks you that helped !
thanks for sharing your experience
here are some of my experiences related to the game SFX sound and music :
bensound.com for music and freesound.org for finding music and SFX
you can also try some apps to make music, I recently tried an android app named super pad lights
"Bosca Ceoil" software, i don't like it too much! anyways, in some cases it may help you, whatever it could be a little weird XD
there are videos about both mentioned app and software
anyways by spending some time you probably can find many better resources and tutorials to access/make music and sound effects for your game
good luck
4:15 I disagree with based on how you view life... I feel in real life, even in failure you still level up in the sense that you're still gaining "experience" aka xp... leveling up in real life occurs when you gain enough experience of life situations to "wake up" and understand and embrace what needs to be done to have a better quality of existence.
Very true, and very sound advice.
I feel like we all understand his analogy regardless. XD
Ok! I will add a bridge to my game then if that's what makes the game fun.
@Game Dev Underground Another great vid! Would it be alright to post some Steam keys here in hopes of getting feedback for my game on some of the things you talked about in the video?
Hi man! You have a drill besides you. What it's for ?
When I make games, if it has no progression -> I don't classify it as a game.
Destiny is a fun game, however with no story it was badly lacking after the strikes, raids and extremely short ambiguous story. It was like eating half a cookie, where's the other half? It gave no purpose for why anything exists or why I should care. I also think there was bad progression system for guns and armor even though the guns were fun. Now for Halo , 1 - 4 was fun and good story. Halo 5? Too much damn microtransactions which almost completely eliminates the point of continuously playing for unlockables. Also the story was bad, it was a lie for all who bought the game hoping Master Chief was going to fight Locke. But eh, getting into clans always makes games more fun because they can give you the purpose when there is not.
Agreed, super bummed about destiny 1 story especially because I expected Halo esque story. But the game kept me playing for 3 years..thats gotta say something. I don't think I would have kept playing without people to play with though, so I think the way they embeded social drop-in and drop out gameplay over pvp and pve was really awesome.
Yeah I heard the story writer left in Destiny 1 before it launched, but now Destiny 2 suppose to have loads of story. Hopefully this game is much better! The Destiny world is definitely one of the most innovative in a while. Only problem is the people controlling Destiny lol (Activision).
False Knight Honestly, halo 5 as a standalone game is actually pretty good with an acceptable story, its a good game, just not a good halo game.
Graphics and animation is what I like about games. Gameplay comes second because it's a combination of programming and animation so if your animations are A1. Your gameplay is going to have either a responsive or unresponsive feel. In between is possible but difficult.
Im the opposite way, for me if graphics and animation are great but there is no gameplay, the game is trash. Just another eyecandy...
Great video. I think another point to make a fun game is make rewards according to the difficulty of the obstacles.
Hidden collectables too!
It think that is covered as progression because if you rewards get better as you continue overcoming harder obstacles, then you know that you've progressed alot when you get a big reward
Thx for the tio man
@@Rectangle101 This is even a combination of all that 3 points! Inspired by wonder, make it through with obstacles, and finally get a physical reward/progress!
What if you start out with something you think will be fun, but after playing it as you make it you get bored of it. I think usually that's a bad sign, but could also be that you've played it so much that it doesn't feel fun anymore to you.
The opposite can also happen: you end up spending more time playtesting than developing because your game is addictive.
what you describe is a lack of replayability which is not a bad thing at all. it depends on what you want to design... a mobile game that players come back to every day? or a atmospheric singleplayer experience that is supposed to experienced once.
it all comes down to what you actually want to design
Might be just me but iam giving my vote for you to remove or at least tone down that intro, its like lets get crazy shits about to go down because i will do 2x360noscopes. IMO its just better if its really subtle or no intro at all, maybe give your logo and stuff at end?
Thanks man!
Game Dev Underground i think the same way. Nowadays most of the youtubers don't even have an intro scene. I think it is because people leave the video or have to skip which overall reduces watch time.
@@tim-ruswick I personally find it awasome, but just make it a bit shorter and there you go ☺👍
@@tim-ruswick Keep it!
Yes, I think it could have started at 0:18. Or just a "hi guys" at the beginning. If we're being picky!
The "flood" twist in Halo was so good, when you get into that room and then the little things start to come from everywhere, that was such a great twist with a great build up.
Great video!
Delivering the right difficulty is incredibly important. Like the goal, obstacle and bridge example. setting the right challenge, providing enough tools and letting the players have that "ah HA!" moment is very powerful. Players should feel a sense of competence and increasing mastery, that's one of the greatest satisfactions.
Players should be able to feel they are in control to some extent, that it's in their power to progress and become better, so randomness has to be reigned in and used in relevant situations, but not abused in such a way that the experience is very unpredictable. Even procedural worlds are not 100% random, there are algorithms cleverly designed to craft the best levels possible.
Feedback is also crucial and is delivered in many different ways. Visuals, text, sounds, vibration can all be used to tell the player about pending events, like a boss attack, or how they are performing, and allow them to learn from their mistakes if necessary. Even death can be a good way to give feedback, like the Super Meat Boy. Dying is not a punishing and painful event that sets you back a lot since the levels are short and respawn is fast.
When I built the first version of my procedural game I noticed exactly what you mentioned. 100% random is HORRIBLE. The random elements need to be carefully crafted, and a lot of times assembled from preexisting assets to make it interesting.
And 100% agree with what you said about feedback. You don't always realize why a game without feedback doesn't feel right...and most players cannot pinpoint it as something you should add, but it makes SUCH a difference for the experience. Thanks for the comment dude!
Thank you so much for this video, this has a huge contribution in my current game specifically the progression
Progression is great! Hope you put it to good use!
@@tim-ruswick yes
I rarely comment youtube videos but you make good ones, so keep on the good work ^^
Hotline Miami works wonderfully on these concepts. It's challenging, there is some little randomness forcing you to keep your eyes peeled, and this on itself creates a sense of wonder, but they went ahead and have a great story complementing this aspect. Progression is rewarded by new bits of the story, and new weapons and masks, which can provide a significantly different playstyle. You have to plan a strategy, though there is more often than not multiple ways of achieving your goals. The scoring system motivates you to try to get combos and a highly aggressive playstyle, which is a lot harder than the alternative, hence increasing replayability.
Can you make a video where you create a game or just program from like a livestream or something? I'd love to see that
If you check out my ludum dare videos, those were all me making a game live. I may do some other stuff in the future.
support some live streaming
I've been a bit lost in the weeds lately, building systems and features, and needed a bit of perspective. This video provides just that. Thanks!
You know your game is fun when you get stuck playing it after what was supposed to be a quick test.
I'm in 2024 guys... Aliens invaded earth, I'm among the few survivors..
Also I think to make a good game the little details almost matter more then the big ones! And it's always smart to have good AI instead of weak enemy, medium enemy, strong enemy! Have you're NPCs do stuff based on the situation like if they see you make them look closer instead of calling back up in an instant or even stuff like pull out a side arm instead of reloading there gun while you shoot them! One game that really impressed me recently was Days Gone! That games story is amazing
A very interesting video, thank you!
I would add personalization, and freedom of choice and tools to use. I just love when I can make my PG's look AND powers the way I want. So I can say "Yes, this is me. This is how I want to solve these challenges."
Awesome vid. I'm an indie dev and I love your channel. Great game design analysis. Keep it up!
What happens to the fun factor if what's fun for me isn't fun for other players necessarily? For example, I love The Club (arcade TPS + combo system, like resident evil mercenaries), but the majority of the players trashed this game. If I follow what I think it's fun, I'm pretty sure my game is doomed.
Amelia Pc Test Test Test and test!!! Get people who you know to try it and give you some feedback! Write up some basic information about your game and ask on reddit if it sounds fun. There are plenty of ways to find out if people are interested in your idea of a "fun" game.
Amelia Pc Some aspects of human behaviour are common for whole mankind. Read C.G.Jung
I'm from Human Science, not Exacts Sciences. We're forced to read this kind of stuff on University, even if we don't agree with it. I like to read about neuroscience, but it's in a superficial level. I think the best advice is from HeroscapeZ... test, test and test with people. Hahaha, it's a pity we can't put a "question solved" mark on the comments ^^
something along the lines of, there are probably 1 million people at least across the world that feel what you think is fun is indeed fun, probably 10K who would find your game the BGOTY and even if that was all... if you could get your game in front of those people, you would be well on your way to self sufficienct income while you continue your game dev career
That's true! (more and more I find marketing harder than doing actually the product. I'm marketing the IP before and creating the comic and the game has been a sweet breeze compared to the marketing...).
TIP: for solving a first person maze, put a finger on one wall, never let go, and keep walking.... At least you can't get lost that way
Heres my opinion:
Game like minecraft or GTA V are fun because you never run out of things to do.
Games like leauge of legends or CS:GO is fun because its competitive.
Games like dark souls is fun because it challenging and you feel good when you beat it
This is so true.
This is very true. These are the main elements of the game but many other things can greatly enhance the game like a sound effect or emblem popping up when you kill someone like Valorant/other games have.
1:26
Can you please make the intro music softer in your videos it's too loud comparing to your voice.
I’m having trouble finding a game you made. Do you have a link?
0:56 well it starts with F is for fun...
Where can we find your games and play them?
Like and subscribe just because you mentioned halo!
1. Tutorial 2. Progression 3. wonder.
Pretty basic stuff, but it's good for someone to articulate it.
These points are *priceless*. I am currently at my normal stage of prototyping that I become unmotivated because everything that I worked so hard to implement all comes together to be... nothing; but that's the problem! I have no objective, progression, and wonder. Thank you for setting me on the right track.
So many different types of fun - Doom shotgun? Fun. Quake rocket-jump / quad-damage? Fun. Finish a level of Pac-man - fun? Finish Dark Souls? fun? The larger scale goals are satisfaction or relief from stress, the smaller scale goals are entertainment.
Didnt really like this video progression is not fun, "wonder" as tip 3...and forgot tip 1 already. Maybe helpful to someone completely new to games
One of the best things about Halo was quick-saving the game with a full stack of sticky grenades, then sticking them to all your marines feet and laughing your ass off as they exploded and got thrown around.Then you quick-reload and do it again and see what happens.
While the 'Halo' ring is a nice concept, the plot did not move me. If you want a plot, read a book.
The sense of accomplishment is one thing, but the way I like to think about challenge in games, is that challenge leverages the game's systems more than a game that is easy to overcome. When a challenge can be won with less decision making, less strategy, less knowledge, less utilization of your ability (whether that's player skill or in-game tools), the game becomes more shallow, and thus less engaging, EVEN IF all the "interesting" mechanics are in place.
Take Zelda: Twilight Princess for example. A decently lengthy game, with a ton of items, health upgrades, and special moves. An average-level player may only get Game Over a few times in the whole game. Enemies simply don't do much damage, and the reaction times aren't very strict. Every attack is heavily telegraphed and there are many "safe" moments to land hits with no consequences. Of course, when fighting multiple enemies, most will simply stand near you and wait their turn to attack.
I LOVE that game, but not for its challenge. It's a real shame too, because the combat is really fun at its core, and learning a new Hidden Skill is awesome. But the fun runs out quickly, because half of them don't get used much because there is no incentive; no leverage. It's a much better strategy to just run up and hit. Occasionally there is an enemy that requires a specific move, but that's not interesting, it's simply plugging a square hole with a square peg. Looking at more combat-focused games, like Dark Souls or Devil May Cry, you get to plug any hole with any peg, but it's up to you to figure out how and pull it off. That's where a lot of the fun comes in; making strategic decisions. Being creative and experiencing the payoff.
A lack of challenge disincentivizes decision making, because it's usually more trouble than it's worth to make use of more game mechanics than you need to. The game doesn't leverage them; it doesn't give you a scenario where you have to make use of them. Which is why Breath of the Wild was a lot more fun with its combat, in my opinion. Enemies had more HP, were a lot smarter, and did a lot more damage. The game purposely gave you many valid options in combat (interestingly through the environment moreso than moveset), and it paid off to make use of your options because running up and attacking was not always the best strategy; especially when fighting multiple enemies. It would often leave you unsafe and close to danger. Even if you did, there were stricter reaction times and more enemies to account for, on top of resource management and higher punishment for failure. This made most combat encounters require a lot more thought, reflex, and strategy than Twilight Princess. It took combat and turned it from adequate, decently fun, but somewhat mundane, into something exciting the vast Majora-ty of the time.
Now imagine BotW with properly implemented Hidden Skills... I'm drooling over the prospect. :D
3:27 I see those too, but they seem to be sucssessful 😔
I agree with you they are successful
Mine is ironically both just tapping and very challenging at the same time, based on flappy bird but with different physics simulation look music, obstacle and level design + points system and bonus stages.
I think Rockstar Games have the sense of wonder because nobody could remember there newer games fully in one play through! They have alternate ways of doing missions and such! Especially GTA 5 with its Chiliad Mystery keeps me coming back for sure!
Watch this video it's about what makes things fun but it's about video games ruclips.net/video/5LScL4CWe5E/видео.html
Fun isn't the only bridge to get players to completion, compelling story or mystery or etc, combine with at least adequate fun IMO will keep players engaged.
This is great! I actually dont think that all games have to be fun. I think games have to be engaging. But fun is usually the the one that we pick. Great points!
Graphics
I think games like prototype and just cause 3 are some of the most fun games alone but mario kart and rainbow 6 seige are fun with friends
Amazing video! Thanks!
3:22 well that's a problem because everyone has a different set of skills and abilities. I am very good at combat based games but I'm horrible at dating sims and more socialized games. Hell some people are straight up horrible at games and to be honest I'm not good at games. I find a hard challenge fun; something I keep dying to over and over like Dark Souls until I figure out how to defeat the problem.
Awesome video! Hopefully this title I'm working on pans out.
binding of isaac was like the first thing i thought if when i saw this video
youre talking about flow theory thanks to the Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi we can apply this theory
my game(streak pong) has a few downloads but us Aly people quickly uninstall it
sponsored by windows
wtf background
Your
Rad-acikel
Your a cool dude 😎
Rare should have seen this.
1999 anyone?
Thank you
Too many good videos! 🤤
You rock!
Awesome intro and useful information
Thanks!
I would also add an unique gamemechanic to the list.
if (goodPosture == false)
{
goodPosture = true;
}
my IDE highly suggests to remove the unnecessary if and let the compiler do its job
That intro is... Quite obnoxious.
When you talked about maze games i tuned in alot more (i was making art for my game on the side) because my game is actually a first person maze, I just want to quickly ask you/the people in the comments. Would a maze game be fun if it had a story and more obstacles? I have monsters in my maze that move through the walls so making a wrong turn can be horrible for you, and a whole story planned. Would that game really be fun, or am i just telling my self it will be?
How about providing a link to your game so that people can test your game and give you feedback
honestly i would but im not going to release it to the public until its somewhat decent, I only made the model for the first monster yesterday.
Snekyspider Metroidvania is a good genre, maybe that way I think your game would be a good game, but I don't know very much about your game so I can't tell very much.
Tips: Make your game complex to be fun but not very much so it wouldn't be boring, a maze can have two ways that I can think:
1- The story tells you the way to go
2- Learning by yourself, that way it's easier to make more paths with more secrets, and it would be more fun for: Speedruns (not very much but kind of), 100% playing
Also in option 2 it's better to make secrets and the game wouldn't be that linear.
I'm not saying that you should get option 2, do what you want, but true maze fans would prefer it I guess, since it's the way mazes work.
I see potential in your work, please give me news about it in the future, I'm interested no matter the option you choose
Probably not. It sounds like a fake difficulty based on tedium and luck. If it's your first project, I recommend making the game dispite the fact that hardly anyone will find it interesting and congratulate yourself on it anyway because that's still a big achievement. If you have a pretty good idea of what you're doing, I recommend making it easy for the player to map out and to learn from his/her mistakes, and try to make the maze as varied as possible. Metroid and the maze on the back of a macaroni and cheese box are both technically mazes, but one leaves you with a much better impression and experience than the other.
This is such an amazing topic, I would like to see more content about it. Great video.
talkilking bout someone in front of the camera without showing an example xd
I would show pictures of videos instead of just showing your face
Thanks for the feedback :)
michael odetola i like seeing his face