How to write BELIEVABLE INSTA-LOVE
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Insta-love: one of the most highly-hated tropes in romance. Most readers and writers HATE IT and try to avoid it at all costs. But here's my question: is ALL insta-love bad? Or are we simply doing it wrong?
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I honestly didn't realize tangled only took place in two days... that's crazy I'm shook
Yep. But then it really took them three years of dating and five failed proposals for them to finally get married, so it was still very realistic😅
Me: Slow burn is my absolute favourite trope
Also me: *has Tangled and Titanic as two of my all-time favourite movies*
Titanic is my favorite as is the Sound of Music.
Man, all your references to Tangled makes me want to go back and watch it with a critical eye
You should!! It's so much fun haha 😂
That's what I tried to do with anime Death Note.
I'm wanting to write a manipulative character for a story I'm thinking about.
I read an online article titled Writing A Manipulative Character: What You Need To Know, and it mentioned Mysterio from Spider-Man: Far From Home as an example; also Mother Gothel from Tangled, and Light Yagami from Death Note.
After the Death Note bits, the article said "if you want to write a good manipulative character, pay attention to Light Yagami."
I also watched the RUclips video Writing Manipulation: A Look At Emperor Belos (from The Owl House)
I think the closest we get to love at first sight in real life is when a loving parent sees their child for the first time.
I don't disagree with you because it is a lot more than love at first sight, they've had you in their family for 9 months without ever seeing you, and they start loving you even before you start to actually exist soooo
Even they had nine months to warm up to each other.
Im not so sure- and I say that as a mother. I remember thinking at some point "there's a naked stranger growing in there" and it took me most of that first year with my daughter to really love her as she developed her own quirks. we had to understand ourselves as individuals rather than a connected unit as we had been.
The worst thing about insta- love is that you can literally feel it's all about physical attraction, and the writer ad characters getting confused with "true love".
YESSS OH MY GOSH so true
Although in more traditional societies, where sex outside of marriage is taboo, people got married quickly. If they were attracted, they got married, had sex, then had to live together
Thats because that is what "love at first sight" is. Lust masked as love. This is typically felt by teenagers. Because they don't understand their feelings well.
Adults that "love at first sight" are not matured. I have two family members who have gone through life like this. Only after 60 is when they have matured and understand love doesn't happen in an instant, but over time.
This is a great breakdown, thanks (much belatedly)!
Short form true story:
My grandparents were passing by each other in the same military base without ever having talked to each other, my grandfather saw her and told his friends that my grandmother was the one he would marry, they dated for a week, and then he introduced her to his mom as his fiancee over a phone call. She agreed, and they were married for 60 years, until his death.
IDK if it was insta love, but it was the closest I've ever heard about....
Woah. You‘re right. Tangled is an insta love. WHY DIDN’T I EVER NOTICE THAT?!
But I guess you explained exactly that. I love love love tangled. I laugh and sigh and cry with this movie. I think it‘s so highly underrated in the Disney universe.
Thank you for this Video, Abbie!
I actually took notes from this AND you made me realize that I should mention a certain fact about my couples relationship earlier in my story. In my plot it‘s worked in right at the end, but I think it‘s something that could show the growing trust between my characters, if it‘s mentioned way earlier. AND it would help my pacing! If I think about it - it will be going to a place within my novel that somewhat felt rushed. If I add this moment it‘s going to feel much better.
AH! I‘m excited. You helped my novel a lot right there ♥
I agree!! Tangled is so good and so underrated in the Disney universe. 😍✨ oh my goodness I'm so glad this video helped you improve the romance element in your story!! THAT'S SO AWESOME. *high fives * thank you for watching!
Tangled is my favorite
I was with my husband for a month before he proposed. We got married after 3 months and we've been married for almost 8 years now 🥰🥰 it was INTENSE. It just felt... Right.
Using Tangled (aka my favorite Disney princess movie) to illustrate this is PERFECT!
The concept of emotional progress being more important than time makes so much sense!
I am writing a story of two people falling in love while waiting for their train and I was thinking how to do it right then I remembered Abbie has a video on insta-love and yay here I am. Thanks a lot!
How did your story turn out? ☺️
OMG IT SOUNDS SOOOO COOL!
Where can I read it @rooh varz
Omg i wanna read it
Thank you all! I am planning on publishing it towards the end of this year
Also Finn is highly concussed with all those frying pan hits 😅
Anyone else thinking of Kristoff in Frozen? 😅 " you got engaged to someone you just met that day??" 😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣 omg, Tangled was such a great example!!! Thank you so much - your videos are amazing ☺
Woahhh I've never thought of insta-love (or Tangled) like that. Thank you again for another awesome video!
Thank you so much, Alea!! I'm so glad this vid inspired you!
What particularly bothers me is when characters confess their love without ME knowing the other person beyond a relatively small layer of their life/personality. I think that you don't have to specifically show/tell about all the conversations and situations in which they learned about the other's family/career/childhood/interests/cooking skills/tragedies/... but I think you definitely NEED to let the reader/viewer know the character. If I myself don't even know or understand one or the other or either character I won't feel engaged with the story because it seems like it is purposely withholding relevant information from me and then maybe creating conflict that I won't engage with because they haven't given me the relevant information to build expectations and to really understand what the conflict consists of. I hope this is understandable :D
TL;DR: I think that even if it is technically believable that the characters went through a process of getting to know each other, some stories still exclude the reader/viewer from this process to a degree that essential aspects of an arising conflict become incomprehensible and unengaging.
I read a lot of fan fiction. This is definitely a problem.
I got married within 3 months! Does this count? Lol
My parents did too
My parents did too (2)
My parents took 6 months. So, that's a little longer.
That’s awesome! I wish you the best!
My grandparents did that!
Thank you! Someone finally said the number one truth of writing: all you need are realistic characters. I watch fantasy and sci-fi movies all the time, and I can swallow a surprising amount of nonsensical plot convenience and poor world building, but if a character does not act like a real person or they act out of character, I explode.
Can we just appreciate how helpful and relatable her videos are! ❤️
Great job, Abbie! :) For me, one of the classic examples of "Insta-Love" is the movie Titanic. Granted, it took longer than two days for Jack and Rose to fall in love, but not many more! And yet, as you talked about, we didn't care about the timeline; we just wanted to see them be successful and live!
Ooh yes! I've never seen Titanic but that sounds like a perfect example! Exactly, the timeline doesn't matter - we just need to make the reader care about the characters. 😊
@@AbbieEmmons you should!! Definitely instalove, but such a good one. Basically the two start as strangers and end up with one of them dead and the one alive still remember how the other person loved them so deeply at that time, even as an old granny who got married eventually and now has grandchildren.
I'm writing a short story that pretty much takes place over 2 or 3 days. I want my story to be instalove but without the cringe lol. Somehow it still comes across as instalust but your videos are helping transform my story. Thank you so much!
If you get me to look at a love triangle differently, you must be a genius. XD (I mean, you already are, but you know what I mean.
HAHA I MIGHT JUST REVOLUTIONIZE LOVE TRIANGLES FOR YOU. ;) we shall see. so glad you liked this video!! thanks for watching, girl!! 💛
Thank you so much for breaking down the difference between "love" being attraction and chemistry vs. developed willingness for self-sacrifice. I've been struggling with a story that takes place over less than 2 weeks but have characters I want to be "in love" by the last couple days. Realizing that maybe they don't need to be in full-blown, deep devotion love helps me realize how to handle this better.
Love Tangled. I always knew it was insta-love but it never bothered me because it got all the right points you mentioned to make it believable. My sister and I have a couple stories with characters where one is instantly in love with the other but it is left to the reader to see that. You don’t have to literally tell us they’re “in love.” I agree that the emotional progress makes or breaks insta-love. Even in a 90 minute movie or in a 2 and a half hour movie, like Wonder Woman, I need to be able to see the progress being made towards them falling in love. Some of my favorite insta-love are Buffy and Angel and Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor from the movie, who I believe fall in love in not more than 3 days.
During WWII there was a lot of real insta love. I’m much older than most of your subscribers. So I knew a lot of WWII couples that met at community socials, dances and parties. They met, dated and married within weeks, if not days, because the men had to ship out. They loved each other and were faithful to each other all their lives. Not many couples divorced in that generation either. I had a friend that met her husband at a dance on Friday night and was married to him 8 days later in a church ceremony with hundreds of guests the next Saturday. Of course that generation is gone now, but insta love is real.
My mother on her 1st date with my dad came home after, and asked her sister to be her maid of honor. One month later they were engaged. It would have been 63 years this year. That was 1959. 🥰
It proves today what we have is a decaying society deprived of values and principles. Just look how bad politics is now today, totally and beyond corrupt. During WW2, people didn't know they were going to live the next day and showed their humanity.
@@dedicatedfelineenthusiast2211 wow blessed be your parents💝💝💝😊😊😊🥰
What an interesting trope to tackle... The interesting thing to also considering this topic is what counts as a "romance?" Often times in my novels the "romance" is a slow-burn type romance, not necessarily in regards to the length of the actual story but in the progression of their feelings. Things happen slowly and often the romance is often subtext between the two characters... so does a kiss equal the romantic climax? An "I love you?"
I think the thing that annoys me most about insta-love which you get at in this video is the "love" instead of "attraction" at first sight, but the other thing that annoys me is how quickly writers often jump to "they are soulmates" when they've only known each other for 2 days instead of "they have chemistry" which as a reader is WAAAAY more believable and easier to keep me on board with the insta-love
That's a really good point, Lydia! It's kind of become a cliché as to what the romantic climax is in a story. I DEFINITELY PERFER SLOW-BURN. and ugh yes I hate it when two strangers "fall in love" after clapping eyes on each other from across the room. like… seriously??! 😂 so glad you liked this video - thank you for watching!
I believe in love at first sight because it happened to me! But, since we first "met" online we had chatted, emailed, talked on the phone, etc. for 9 months before we met in-person.
This advice is a great "template" for all character relationships. You can even take each "point" and turn it negative to create a nemesis. Thanks for your insight, I feel my writing just went up a notch 🤗
Wow, great point actually
This is the exact thing I've been working around in my book. There are characters that I know could work as a couple, but I don't want to jump into that relationship since I don't want my book to be seen as a romance novel. I just want to hint at the potential of a possible future relationship, which can also allow for another book. Just because people are attracted to each other doesn't mean that there has a to be a romantic love story that takes over the rest of the story line.
I love that!! There really aren't enough books with slow burn relationships, or even just relationships that COULD be romance but aren't quite there yet - or ever. There are so many other dynamics to write about with relationships, romance is just one!! I'm sure your book will be awesome ;)
That was very interesting, I love your open-minded ideas! Me and my husband fell in love/got married in a very short amount of time, but somehow it felt natural. Thus, I always wondered why I couldn't relate to so many stories, even though I've actually been through that.. And you gave me an answer to just that.
I deeply appreciate it when I'm reading a trope I typically hate, but it's written in a good way, making it actually enjoyable. Keep doing what you're doing! ^^
Wow that's awesome, Antonia!! I'm so glad you liked this video and could relate (hehe!) thank you so much for watching and commenting ✨✨✨
Hello! Actually, I am here in your yt channel right now because I am in need of guidance from someone to teach me how to right romance AND the thing is, my book is about a girl who fell in love with the boy AT FIRST SIGHT.
upon watching this video, I cannot say I completely grasp the tips you said but it did help me to ponder a lot of things like, "Should I continue my story?"
"Now that I know that Love at first is not possible, what should I do now?"
My mind is a mess rn but I'm still thankful for your teachings. I'm going to watch more of your videos and read a lot of books about the concept I wanted to write.
That's all and thank you very much!
Love this video Abbie, I’m so glad you posted this. After the video on your other channel I was afraid you wouldn’t be posting Writer’s Life Wednesday. The way you re-examine things and think them through is so refreshing and eye opening. Tangled is my favorite Disney movie and I never realized that it is an insta love storyline. Also, I never thought that joy and trust equals love. That shines a light on my romantic plot. Thank you for the amazing video. Can’t wait to see your take on love triangles.
Thank you so much!! I'm so happy you liked this video and got something out of it!! TANGLED IS ONE OF MY FAVORITES TOO. ❤️ hehe clearly. and yes I will be posting here every Wednesday don't worry!! I hope you like the next episode! :D
I love Tangled sooo much!!
Pacing was a really good point. I’m writing a story that is a couple years long, but this still applies to that as well. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Abbie. They always get me thinking. 😊✨
ME TOOOOO 😍 exactly!! if you have the pacing, you have everything *fist bump * THANK YOU 💛✨
Thank you Abbie, you confirmed that the beginning of my story makes sense, where instant attraction turns into fast growing affection and finally into something more meaningful (love), because both characters see the comfort, trust and joy in each other's company. I'm always focussing to show the "how do I feel while being with her/him" for both of them, if that makes sense.
I believe in love at first sight but I believe it is a nearly impossible phenomenon
I'm in the process of writing a fanfic romance between an established character and my OC and it's what I'd call one-sided insta-love. The established character has lived through so much trauma that it's not hard to imagine her falling for the first thing that even resembles a decent human being (that might also have been heavily implied in the suorce material, can't remember right now). But I'm writing it from the perspective of the OC, who at first just wants to be friends before he realizes he's developed feelings for her. Now the fun part comes with the established character's personality being such a people pleaser as well, that the OC often has to wonder if she's doing things because she wants to do them, or because she thinks it will please the OC. The mutual pining is beautiful. "If I ask her to be my girlfriend, does she accept? Will she do so because she genuinely wants that?" The biggest questions on his heart for almost a year in universe.
Thank you so much for this video Abbie! It was perfect timing. The story I’m currently writing is set over a period of 2-3 days too, and I’m struggling with developing the romantic relationship between a couple of my characters. Your advice helped me a lot, so thank you so much 😊 I’m also really looking forward to more videos on this subject this month ❤️ Keep up the fantastic work. Lots of love, Emily Xxx
I'm so glad this video came at the right time for you!! Those kinds of stories are so much fun, and I'm so glad this video helped you to develop the romance in your story!! I hope you like the next episode 💛✨
You are so intuitive... geez. I loved this. Tangled is one of my favorite Disney movies and I never realized why until now. I like it way better than Frozen, which was more popular. Besides the great storytelling and character development, Eugene is just a way more interesting (and amusing) male lead than Christoff. Perhaps because Christoff was mainly a side character. His internal conflict was not center stage most of the time, and though he tries to help, he's not all that important in the climax.
My favorite book I read this year is They Both Die at the End, and that book takes place within less than 24 hours. Kind of insta-love, and it's so perfectly done.
Great video! I'm working on a romantic comedy screenplay that takes place over 1 month and making the love story believable in a short period of time is definitely something that I've been anxious about. So far all the work has been in outlining and I'm just hoping that it will come together. Your video helped me realize that when I actually start writing I really need to focus on the pacing and capturing that feeling of building trust and joy. Thanks Abbie! Looking forward to your other videos on romance!
Thank you Annie! I'm so glad this video helped you with working out the romance in your screenplay! That's so awesome you're a screenwriter!! (MY DREAM 😍) I'm sure it will be awesome! Thank you for watching!
Yes! I was avoiding writing stories with short timeframe just because I didn't want to do unrealistic insta-love. Now I feel much more confident that it can be done :)
I'm so glad this video gave you more confidence in your insta-love story, Claire! Thanks for watching xx 💛✨
Tangled is my favorite movie and I love having it dissected 😍
I'm so excited to use some of this for my story 😊💞💛
yay! Thank you, Katheryn! 😊
I instantly thought of Nick & Norah's Infinite Playlist by Rachel Cohn and David Levithan! Takes place in a single night, but definitely doesn't feel like it
Oooh I've heard of that!!
I think the idea & belief in love at first sight comes from how human memory works. When we remember, it's not like accessing static data on a hard drive. Remembering is reconstructing stored information on the fly, & it's seen through the lens of the present you & your present feelings, attitudes, values, & beliefs. So if Bob & Jane have instant attraction, start dating, & then some time later really love each other after getting to know each other, it's easy to imagine how their memories of their beginnings could have their current love projected onto them. & then there's also how we can tend to mythologize our lives, & our personal & our relationship's stories. If you're deeply in love, it's easy to build up what actually happened into an epic a love story. Complete with love at first sight. It's not *True*, but it kind of becomes *your* truth.
I think some other good examples of “insta love” that’s well done are what we see happen in the movie “Before Sunrise” or the book “The Sun is Also a Star” or even... while not technically insta love, the movie “50 First Dates” puts an interesting twist on the trope.
I made a insta-love once and I loved! I love my couple :')
It was soooo fun!
Your tips are always wonderful! Thank you!
That's so cool, Gisele!! 😊 I'm so glad you liked this video, thank you for watching!
Marry me please, Abbie! Just kidding (unless you're willing, hahaha). Seriously though, great post. As always. Your content is masterful. Your intellect is one-of-a-kind. Keep it up. This video provided me with indispensable advice, seeing as I am in the process of completing my second novel, which is about two characters from opposite sides of the track, who fall in love within a short time frame (because time is of the essence, considering the life and death challenges both characters are facing). I thought I was done with my second edit, but I guess not. It is obvious that I need to make a few tweaks after listening to your brilliant advice. Anyway, thank you, and keep up the good work. You are an inspiration to all of us writers out there. Ciao!
my partner and I were and insta-love. we've been together for 13 years now. I always write insta love because it's very realistic to me.
I'm living proof that love at first sight exists. Very rare, but it happens. I KNEW I was going to marry my husband when I first laid eyes on him. We had our first date, and we have never been apart for 5 years now. Not a single day. When I told him that I fell in physical love and I just knew he was a great person. It was very odd. He told me he felt the same when he saw me. I've never been 100% honest as I am with him. No joke. I read this and it sounds super cheesy but it's true. 🥰
I agree with you that love at first sight is unrealistic...
but it does happen...
my mom and dad met on social media and after two days decided to get married...
they hadn't even met in person!!!!!! And here they are still together almost 15 years later!!!!!!!!
I was expecting you to talk about Nick and Norah’s Infinite Playlist but wow, Tangled!
I just realized that I've written an instalove in my story and I unknowingly did the emotional progress! And you're right it feels natural!
1:35 sooooo Shakespeare, looking at you Romeo
A fellow writer recommended this to me cuz I want to write insta-love (my story literally takes place during one day) and I've never even written (or experienced) romance for that matter.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for all you do. So helpful. Love it
Titanic is insta love like tangled but as well is awesome and amazinly done❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
I appreciate this video greatly. I've been writing an adventure story that is also a crossover, and I had plans on two characters falling in love towards the end, but I didn't know how to properly execute this. I know how to get there, I even have that "prove your love" moment planned out, but some of the parts leading up to it need some improving. The attraction is there, the progress still needs some work, I have a secret that one of the characters wants to keep hidden, but it gest exposed, causing that rift that needs to be fixed between them. I'll take these tips into consideration and make the needed changes.
i actually made a story that takes place in a month and a half and i was kinda scared if when i will be writing it, it will be cringey but thank you so much for giving me this information
Insta love happens in real life. And it says a lot about the characters who experiences it (needy, unresolved childhood traumas, projection, etc). It’s a useful characterization
I knew Tangled was in a 2 day time frame. I never questioned that it was insta-love because, like you said, it almost seems realistic. But I'll keep this in mind.
There is a German live action version of beauty and the beast that I adore and it only takes place over a few days. The first few times I watched it I thought at least a week had passed!
The shade to dark romance, Abby 😂😄
Titanic is definitely instalove, would love to see more content on that!
It's really good advice irl too! It isn't about how long the relationship is, it's about the emotional progress that these two people undergo, it's about how and why they choose to fight for the chance of a lifetime :>
¡Gracias!
Love: is a selfless commitment where you would die for someone!
If God is love, Jesus loved me at first sight and died for me. Then God is insta love.
I wish you would have used Before Sunrise as an example. Literally one night of just walking and talking, and, boom, love. It's quite remarkable.
We organize our book shelves the same way. 😊
I met my wife of 47 years and fell head over heals in love with her on our second date. I would have given my life for her and still would. The only girl I have ever dated or kissed. Doesn’t make sense but it is working better now than ever.
I have a sub plot of two of my side characters meeting for the first time when they run into each other as my main two protagonists meet in secret. The two of them meet and its not insta love but it along is the female is like my female protagonists sister so we see her side of it through her and the male is my male protagonists best friend after he is taken away by the protagonist females dad so the two guys become best friends and we see his side of it thorugh my male
I hadn't been sure how to make it believable since they won't see each other a lot over the course of the first book which happens in around a month yet they slowly start realising they have feelings for each other by the end of book 1 and it continues on so this really helped so thank you!!!
Before Sunrise!
I watched Tangled and didn't care at all for Flynn/Eugene in himself - except for the fact that Rapunzel DID, so I did, for her. It shows how you can make the reader care for an unlikeable character because the MC cares about them
Hi Abbie I love your channel and look forward to reading your book 100 Days of Sunlight. I write sci fi romance (the sweet kind) so I can identify with the romance side of a lot of your videos. Can u please do another video on Insta love?
I am going to call it 'Insta Attraction' now, I like that way😅
Honestly, I'm kind of surprised you didn't bring up The Sun Is Also A Star by Nicola Yoon in this video, like, one of the reasons I clicked on it was because I wanted to see you talk about it. But oh well, Tangled is an amazing example too, so I guess we're good
SO helpful!! This will def help my romantic screenplay
So many great points!😆Thank you!
I always avoid writing short stories, not because of this, but because I want a long journey. There is so much to my story I want to take a look at. A lot to explore. Gonna need more than one book to write all of it.
I just found your videos and find them very helpful. I may have not found it yet, but have you filmed anything about Duel Protagonists? I've noticed you mention the idea a few times, but would love a video on your views of the topic, writing more than one protagonist. Thanks for the info. You rock!
Thank you so much, Nathan! I'm so glad you like my videos. :) I just recently posted a video about adding/switching protagonists in a story: ruclips.net/video/8qUgH7OOBBs/видео.html
It's not specifically dual POVs, but I hope to go more in-depth about that topic soon! :D
I’m in the process of writing an original story where two people meet (not by chance - the male counterpart found her on purpose) and by chapter…. 4? They get intimate. But the rest of the story is full of conflict because he’s lied to her about so much and yet they’re forced to work together because of his hidden agenda and by the end of it, I plan to have them know they absolutely love one another but stuck on how to proceed because he’s never been committed and she’s got new found power (it’s fantasy based) and a new found position in her life… which will pave the way for book 2!
Thanks for running defense for insta-love. Now I have to rewatch Tangled... There's something I thought I'd never type.
Wow, super thought-provoking! Nice video!
Thank you!! 😊
yeah insta-love isn't all that bad. I've read a book that pulls it off perfectly where the MC falls in love with the love interest in the span of less than a month, while still kind of hooked on her previous fiancé. Poisoned, by Jennifer Donnelly. I recommend it.
So my partner and I had known each other for two weeks and said ‘I Love You’ and now it’s been 3 and half years.. “insta love” exists I think or was that not love?? I believe in infatuation at first sight
Elvia Arthur Honeslty I think to know if you love somebody you have to ask yourself multiple questions. Would you defend them against society? Would you die for them? Etc
Awesome thoughts and vid thank you!
I don't believe in love-at-first-sight, I believe in lust-at-first-sight but that is a very different thing
this is an old video but i'm binging and i'd just like to say: i haven't seen anyone mention the breakfast club !!
My WIP isn't a romance, its a literary fiction (surreal non-supernatural horror/humor tragedy). I have an easily deluded MC who insta-loves a girl who's utterly wrong for him. Or maybe it's not what you call insta-love
I disagree about insta-lpve being unrealistic. My first husband and I felt in love for the first sight and lived together for 20 years. Same happened to me and my husband. We are together for 8 years so far and still in love. I love write first-sight romance, but I agree that needs to be built slowly, they might not even notice what is going on.
I don’t think I’m doing the insta love Trope in my series but I’m doing the friends from preschool trope
Thank you so much for this video!!
Yes insta-lust, happens. But love takes time!
Love this video, super helpful! 💝
Thank you so much, Leah! :D
I loved The proposal. Albeit the characters knew each other, they were not close. But in a span of 2 days they were ready to marry each other.
Great video btw! (As usual lol)
ROMEO AND JULIET!!!!! sry I'm studying it in English in depth this time and I yea insta love is definitely in there
Writing my first fiction story, going thru all your videos lol. Think i got p close to believable insta love upon my first plotting thoughts.
Oh My . ROMANCEING THE STONE😯
I accept love at first sight only in situations like: they're soulmates and soulmates exist, they're forced to fall in love by an elixir on a curse, person A has a powet to learn any person instatly like seeing their whole past or deducing them
What about unrequited love?
Could you make a video about how to make a manipulative character like Mother Gothel?