30 Year Old Climbing Gear Tested
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- Опубликовано: 21 янв 2020
- We broke a bunch of super old climbing gear donated by Layne Zuelke on our slacksnap machine.
The good results we had in this video does NOT mean old gear is safe. Everything has an expiration date, don't find out what yours is.
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STOP AND READ THIS: Another person sent in old gear and some normal looking 30 year old gear broke at very deadly levels. Expiration dates are naturally conservative but there is a limit... don't find out what the limit is. If it is old, replace it.
Oh really?
Contradicting the results of this video?
And you make cool tests of gear, yet... NO VIDEO!?
Who sent you this other old stuff? What exactly were the results?
What's the tensile strength of Royal Robbins clothes line he used as protection at Stoney Point?
Love the channel, am subbed, but think you're only saying this for common sense sake...
It would be great to see some old gear fail at low loads. I've seen a bunch of old gear fail at basically close to it's rated strength, but I've yet to see it fail at significantly lower then it's rated strength.
Seriously, no video?
If you look on the tag on must climber gear it states climbing is dangerous. I love how we’re all trying to make our climbing gear super safe, but then we go climb on sandstone, go figure😮 just don’t fall and all is well.
I love your channel, but I don't think for a minute that you had 30 year old software to test and didn't record it.
I'd like to see a Slow Mo Guys and HowNOTtoHIGHLINE collaboration video. Imagine what you could learn from slow motion footage of these tests.
You showed 731 Slowmo on the 732 test. Nice vid!
Only problem I can see is that all the old gear looks like it didn't get used much. They looked like they were in great shape. Whereas heavily worn gear, or old tat/slings that have been baking in the sun for years, would yield very different results
Love these videos! Always a great educational experience, with a nice touch of comedy! Cheers to you guys for taking the time to do these. I think it really helps the climbing community to be safer. Thanks for sharing!
For nylon and even more for dynema, how much UV it's been exposed to is more important than how old it is. From ENSA's test dynema gears in high mountain should be discarded after only 3seasons of moderate use to just one season for daily use because of that, and remember a high mountain season in french alps is just 3-4month.
Super interesting tests. Guess I can totally trust my slings... also I would argue the rope tests is a little misleading because with the way the rope up took load it actually disapated a lot of energy. Meaning that a dynamic rope is tough rather than strong (think about area under the stress-strain curve) and should still do a good job of catching a fall.
Also a fall with 14 in of force on your body is probably going to kill you. Minimum strength for quickdraws is 21KN in because the one that catch you fall is going to take up to x1.5 times the impact force: it is not a perfect pulley by any means, but it acts like one. In fact the forces on it are on both climber side and belay side. A climber falling creating 14 kn (peak) of force is going to need at least 7 kn (peak) on the belay side to catch the fall, assuming a 0.5 pulley efficiency. The real math goes with 12 and like 0.75 I think, but here it goes, 12 kn on a 80 kg climber (180 pounds) are about 15 G of acceleration...
Agreed. Ropes have a low breaking strength because the way they absorb the energy keep them from ever seeing that much force.
I'd be curious to see if there is a difference in the rope break strength when using a bowline versus a figure 8
Yes, definitely
I agree
I've been using the double bowline (with safety knot) for tie-in to my harness and have the same question.
I’m pretty sure bowline is a little less efficient but any knot takes away around 50% strength from a rope, that’s why it always breaks at the knot
a question I've wondered for years as well. there are videos around on this topic; typically a figure 8 and double bowline both reduce rope strength by 20%. A single bowline reduces 40%, which relates to the shorter radius turns the rope makes in the knot (which is why we don't climb on them ;-)
Small correction. 12-14kN for rope is pretty standard for new dynamic climbing rope. Keep in mind your rope will see more or less half the load your bolt gear (quickdraw, etc) will see. The up side and down side of the rope forces are added together for the total force on the bolt. Overly simplified, 8 kN rope needs 16kN biner, 12kN rope needs a 24kN biner etc.
Excellent video!
Great vid! A suggestion, to show a graph in the end and to provide details on the conditions the gear was used, like the last one that was left outside for 10 years(shade? Not shade? Etc..)
Perhaps if you have old gear whose daily history over a few decades is known, you can share it with the tester.
Another excellent video, critical info right there
any chance of a video comparing the strength of different knots? (as in how much it reduces rope strength) Like bowline vs figure 8
I feel much better right now :'D Thnk you Ryan
to despise 11 kN breaks as low on dynamic rope is a misunderstanding of their role in the belay chain.
First (and apart from a factor 2 fall which should not happen in good practice) they would always split the force on the quickdraw between the belayer's side and the climber's. As shown in your indoor real fall testing, the force on the quickdraw is related to twice the one on the rope ( climber's side). So the resistance of the dynamic rope does only need to be half the one of the quickdraw or carabiner.
Second, what really matters is the ability for a dynamic rope to absorb the energy of the fall, which is link to the Work of the force. So if the bulk of the stretching happens at a higher force, you have a more resistant rope. one testing protocol could be to assess the extention ( in size ratio) that occurs between a force of e.g. 1.1kn to breaking point.
And by the way, I love your vids ;-)
Thanks for sharing. Was expecting to drop braking force by at least 30% Just replaced my 25 years old: tapes, slings expresses and harness.
Makes me feel somewhat better about the very aged nylon quick draw slings on my rack - all in excellent condition - probably should buy new ones.
Great videos!
May I suggest you stick/draw a ruler/measure stick of some sort to the floor of the breaking slack snap?
Also, I’ll be replacing some of my old gear soon, I would love to send it to you. Old slings mainly.
This was great! Thank you, as always. A couple questions...
1) how would you expect old dyneema materis to perform? Do they do better with exposure/time?
2) what was the MBS for the 30yo dynamic rope you tested?
Great video guys. I have buckets of gear, and a lot of dynema from early 2000. Nobody out my way replaces cam slings. However I would love to see toy test some older Dynema slings. Should I send some?
Thank you very much
Would have loved to see you test an old belay loop.
I did the math. Turns out that real life is 30 fps. I didn't know that:) I'm hooked on your channel and don't even climb let alone highline.
real life is replaying a video at the frame recording rate whatever that may be !!!
fantastic work! Thanks a lot from Switzerland
Can I use 5mm(6kns) cord(4 wraps= 24kns) tied with double fisher man knot instead of dogbone in quickdraws?
Thanks
Can you do a break test by knot? Use the same rope to keep one constant then tie different knots in it to see if one is better than others.
Awesome, as always. I have a question : it's summer and it's hot, you're not supposed to let your rope in tje car but... Well, how long would it take to dammage the rope in a hot car? Thanks 😊
I love the state of the art dyno protector
Thanks for the interesting videos
Nice, thanks
Just found this channel, really cool stuff. I have some slings/webbing/climbing rope/cams and other pro and a BD bod harness all from early to mid 90’s. Very light use, some never used, I mostly top roped and had grand ideas of leading but never did. I’d be happy to send you some to test if your interested. It’s all been stored indoors in bins out of sun.
So the mantra "replace every 10 years" seems to be overly conservative. Especially for slings. If stuff is kept in a dry UV proof area (shaded) then it should last a very long time.
thank you. very usefull
Would be nice to see a video about differently dressed knots :)
What name and brand was the rainbow rope its nice for some knot board
jhair dominguez that was an old Mammut. Rope from around 1990
Should check out walter siebert. Claims an exceptional amount of study into breaking strength of aged equipment.
Could it be that for something like a dynamic rope, one also would like to test it's stretching qualities to test how much energy of the fall the rope can absorb.
I'd like to see a test for loops in a black diamond daisy chain of nylon
I would be more interesting to do real world falls (meaning put the old gear into a modern anchor set up, take a 177 pound weight on a modern dynamic rope, and do factor one and factor 2 falls and see if it holds.
I've taken a bunch of whippers on a properly dressed figure 8 and they always untie much nicer than a s***** looking figure 8 not many people are going to need to untie a figure eight that's reached super high loads so although maybe a dress figure eight for a slack snap might not be all that important it's still a good idea for tying in it's just so much easier to untie after
are there any videos testing ropes after exposure to things like laundry detergents, rope markers, etc?
There's one by edelrid!
I would like do see a breaktest of old dyneema Slings
Older nylon soft goods seem to test well. You should do a comparison to aged Dyneema/ Spectra. New literature is saying they are compromised after only a few years. I have some 90's like new spectra/ dyneema draws and runners if you want them.
The pink elephant in the room here is that since most climbers aren't reslinging their cams/ replacing their draws every year... Maybe the trend towards dyneema isn't a good one.
Did anyone notice you showed 731 breaking when you set up and started pulling 732 ? @8.19
This is pretty normal for a dynamic rope to withstand under static tension right? Or is is it less than expected?
Let's say that a 14 kn force on a 180 pund climber (80kg) is more or less near the limit of fatal acceleration even for a perfectly straight fall (17.5 vertical G acceleration is enough to provoke internal organs damage). It's not even designed to absorb such a high load.
@@REVOLUTIONS51 So yeah i'm correct, thanks for the reply.
This guy's got it down to a science(ish) (close enough)
That rainbow rope is real pretty
I have that exact model of rope in my barn. It is relegated to utility rope but I am sure it’s probably about 30 years old.
I have some old slings and rope from late 80’s if you would like more old stuff to test.
Were the quickdraws in this video actually used or were they new old stock?
Lightly used from what i recall.
Is it possible to find all the data about this study (I suppose you're making a study out of this?)? I'm very interested.
Send me an email at skylining@live.com and I can share some of the results with you.
If you could seperate your behind the scenes footage from test and conclusion footage that would be awesome. Really maybe a commentary free version or much less commentary would be awesome. Love the science, not always the opinion haha. But your channel of course, do what makes you happy.
All the raw footage is on Slackline.com. Feel free to edit your own commentary free version. Credit us if you publish.
I have a whole rack of 15+ year old gear and some 13 year old screamers. I was gonna throw em out and replace all of it but keep the biners and cams etc. all stored indoors in a Rubbermaid bin no sunlight etc.
So the tests show I can still use them fine. Lol nice
Replace them. This test doesn’t prove that the gear is typical. We don’t know anything about how this gear was used. Ropes can need replacing after one hard fall. Follow manufacturers specs.
what is this machine? is it made to do these tests?
It is custom made for these tests. Some of the other videos on the channel show the birth of the Slack Snap Machine. Check them out!
Would be great to see that old gear breaking at dangerous levels. Can you make a video of that? Also, it would be interesting to see how old knotted slings break...
Coming soon.
get the Slow Mo guys over and fill some really slow snapping
So the 10 year limit on harnesses in climbing centres is just a sales technique.
I have a bunch of old Yates gear stuff for you to break. And old ropes.
I don't climb... How many kn can a human body take without a visit to hospital?
This is for reference to how much the normal carabiner will withstand.
Thanks in advance....
I follow his channel on engraving since I do engraving as well as climbing. How strange. Lol
I took a whipper on a 30 yo. Quickdraw, got quite a little bit of the butterflys if you know what I mean
Am I going mad? I'm trying to find a video that I'm convinced I saw that you guys made. It's of old slings and I'm pretty sure they broke with very low force. Am I correct in saying that this was you guys?
8:20 nice try, must've lost the footage eh?
Don't try this at home! Do it at your friend's house.
@12:17 the carabiner opened!!! I wonder what happened there
Did the release of tension force the gate open??!?!?!
Never mind, thank you.
2:42 Yeah, doctor already warned me about risks of pulling it too hard, but thanks anyway
as a highline channel, I understand that you make always STATIC tests, but do you sometime make DYNAMIC tests ? because ropes, climbing draws and anchors are much frequently solicited dynamically in rock climbing context
grab your popcorn. We are making a drop test tower that rivals all other drop test towers :)
Your carabiner wasn't screwed shut when testing the sling. Play at 0.25 speed at 12:20 and you can see it
but the screw doesn't increase the strength yeah? It just stops the gate from opening.
@13:53 that is what she said
11:16 Will Smith has entered the chat
Thanks for doing these. Really interesting and useful content. On a side note, please wear some goggles when you're snapping stuff. You never know what could come flying towards you. Stay safe!
Thermal probe to document temps in deformed materials.
🍀🍀
732 and 731 you slipped the video from 731 in the love where 732 would have snapped. Miss edit?
didn't have footage of 732, most people don't pay attention as good as you :)
I have some slings and rope in the basement that has never been exposed to the weather or sun very long all from 1973. Give me an address and you can test them.
We would love to test those!!! Send me an email at skylining@live.com.
$10k in amsteel lol
So to summarize, have you had any bad surprises with equipment in these tests? Anything which looks safe but isn’t or things you really shouldn’t do to your equipment? I mean … people worry about applying permanent marker to their carabiners …
Another batch of old gear had some things break dangerously low. Replace old gear. I am going to now.
@@HowNOT2 Lawyers are convincing sob’s aren’t they?
Watch 8:19-8:26 you messed up a bit
kinda miss leading about slings. Your sample slings look unused. I think this test would be way different with used slings. I believe i saw a pull test a while back with well used slings and they broke real easy. I wouldnt take from this "man my slings are 10 years old so they must be good!" cus wear and dirt play a large part. As he mentions in the end of the video
The word is "misleading". I didn't see anything misleading. As you note, some of the slings appear to be unused; no claim was made at all - simply test results and the approximate age of the gear was provided.
I got some used 15+ year old slings and draws I could donate for testing
These slings were all well kept indoors. I’ll watch again but I thought that was mentioned. And this isn’t hard science. It only demonstrates that age alone will not significantly weaken nylon slings.
Your right. These were in great condition. I have slings younger than this I'm replacing now that I've tested enough stuff. Now when I say replacing, I mean I am just going to make a lot more interesting old gear videos haha
@@HowNOT2 super excited to see you break some well used slings! Also to clarify i do not think your trying to mislead people that old slings are safe lol. I may have picked a bad choice of words. All i mean was i could see a gumby watching a small part of this video and thinking "my slings are good for 15 years".
#731
None of that stuff was showing its age tbh
I try not to look when my knot undresses itself… out of respect for its modesty.
You are always surprised when it breaks higher than the rating but you don't seem to calculate the 'Factor of Safety' that needs to be applied.