Brass is really shiny at 3:45 when it experience shear forces. as the molecules get crushed against each other and deform, the texture changes and the gold effect it lost. same if you cut it with a saw (same shear force applies)
The wires with red plastic I sent. To the best of my knowledge they are from around 1981 but never used. I have a pile of them so I sent a few to Ryan. I’m very impressed that 40 years made very little difference.
Regarding material strength, steel wire is stable over time (compared to soft materials like Dyneema and nylon). While soft materials will lose strength as they degrade over time, metals only lose strength by experiencing high or repeated stresses. Since you never used them, you were not putting any stress on them (e.g. by repeatedly taking falls), so it's not surprising that they maintained their strength.
Hi ! I have been gived some olds Hexs from Chouinard Equipement (old name before Black Diamond) by a dude from my alpine club. Of course i have changed every rope and webbing on thoses olds-timers because they are 32 years old mini minimum.. But there is where things gonna interesting ! the holes in the Hex head has been sized for old thicker rope. but i wanted to setup a more thin and lighter rope instead. But because of the size difference the head was mooving too freely, so i have figured to fix that by a creative way, i have cross-twisted the rope inside the head ! It solve my problem but i'm not really aware about how the rope radius is augmtented and how it will affect the solidity.
You actually set the tricam on active position, passive position is placed like a nut, with the "rolled pin" on the side of the webbing. Acording to NBS it breaks at lower strength when placed in passive position so it woud be interesting to see that! Great video as always!
My guess on the old hex with the dipped cable is; over time, from use, or even just sitting there, they are exposed to moisture. The coating on the cable made a perfect spot for moisture to get trapped. Even though it's a galvanized cable, any corrosion would have happened there first.
Definitely want to see nuts break tests on real rock! Esp. so I can show it to friends who get a little nervous trusting gear when following! Thanks for all y'all do, gang!
This was super interesting, I was told years ago that nuts were as strong as their cable and I guess that is true. Thanks for the tricam test, that was really interesting. You guys are doing great work.
heck yes, those outdoors in situ tests are really interesting, real rocks, real placements!! Probably going to have to wait for bobby to be 100% again!!
I'd love to see this on real rock! I've whipped on cams but never on a nut. I'd love to see how different style placements affect their hold. Watching your real rock cam tests helped me make better placements!
breaking at the nut's probably the ideal material efficiency, the cable's cheaper than the machining on those nuts. could just be a difference in design philosophy some companies might just overdesigns the nut then they don't have to worry as much about certification because it'll just do what the cable they stick on it does.
I love going on mountains.. i am not a rock climber i usually do iron way i don't know how you call it .. are mountain way on rocks but with all the stuff already in place and with a stainless cable fixed to the mountain every 5m all along the route from the bottom to the top of the mountain way.. BUT i love this video .. Very Very informative about gears and stuff very related to the climber safety.. because some times i use carabiner or ropes and flat ropes.. So really loved the video ... Hi from Italy
I have a number of Chouinard Hexcentrics from 1972 that were slung with kernmantle rope. Want a couple to bust? It would be interesting to see how 49 years of existence, and lots of climbing affected their breaking strength. I'm in Santa Rosa and could bring them your way.
This would be a tough one to film but I would love to see a comparison of similar active/passive placements in different types of stone. I climb in the Red River Gorge a lot and wonder if sandstone there - which is a little less solid than other areas - effects the strength of certain pro (especially tri cams). Perhaps something to consider is slowly collecting videos/data of as you travel around.
Unfortunately you’ve been safe the whole time. Lol Also wow that double fisherman tightening! I’ve always been meh that’s enough tail… durp going to add another inch or so just in case I load it with 20KN of force and I some how manage to survive.
On the large hex that got crushed maybe BD can put a cylinder of aluminium inside to oppose the crushing force. Shouldn't be difficult to manufacture since the sling/wire will keep it in place.
Hurrah for Campbell nuts; 2:00, nice inner curved arc for sling. Mine slung with 7mm Spectra, triple fisherman's, I suspect might surpass 20kN. Nothing feels as reassuring as a passive wedge in a constriction, set it and forget it. Cams and bolts just don't invoke the sense of absolute security.
Would be cool to see nuts placed in their other other orientation (rotated 90 degrees). And then another neat thing would be passive vs. active placement of same size hex?
I'd be really interested to see end-wise placements of hexes, especially hand size or larger. Maybe some more cool collapsing shenanigans? Also would be cool to see off-side placements of nuts.
Tip for future: convert the lbs to kgs aswell, it takes no time, adds to quality of the video and i'm sure alot of viewers would appriciate :) Great video!
The red hex breaking like that is probably due to the low friction of your “nut crusher”. The lower the friction the higher the lateral force, and the hex gets squeezed. So this failure mode probably does not translate well to actual usage, since rock has higher friction.
Hey Ryan did you ever rerig that cam crusher so it holds cams better? Maybe a couple pieces of gnarly longboard griptape on each inside plate held on with spray epoxy might do the job. Love these tests! Thank you!!!
Most larger nut designs today induce rotation to include some of those tested - so some are more or less semi passive???? There was some off brand a while back - never saw them in the wild - but was like a two piece wedge nut design - forget what company.... Like two nuts pinned together... Or was it they nested together - can’t remember separately???
If possible, I'd love to see tests on marginal placements, rather than bomber lab conditions -- I'm curious what kinds of placements do and don't hold!
For gear that is consistently breaking at the carabiner attachment, especially cams, would it make a difference if you increase the bend curvature at that connection point by using 2 carabiners to connect or a large diameter steel shackle? Although not a conventional attachment method it would be interesting to see how strong the wire/slings are with the increased bend curvature or if they start breaking consistently elsewhere.
Love the stress test videos!! Can you do a test on different knots? I am very curious about the strength and possibly of untying the Alpine butterfly bend vs fisherman's bend vs figure 8 bend and maby two bowlines to.. if this video is already made pliz show me! Love the LAB! Peace Norway😄
I'd definitely like to see the nuts tested in real rock, I feel like the point of failure, especially for the smaller nuts, will likely be where the nut wedges against the rock and how the rock holds up to those forces.
I would bet that the two that broke on the side of the cable eye ,broke there because the cable has has a coating. In my experience with spearfishing any coating on cable is a recipe for trapped moisture and hidden corrosion.
Since most of these wires are breaking at the carabiner, they might be breaking higher than rated because you are using a round locking carabiner to attach to the wire. Compared to a smaller wire gate carabiner that would normally be used with these, the bend radius of your carabiner is larger, which decreases the stress concentration on the wire, which potentially is what is making the wires break at a higher load than their rating. I'm curious if there would be any difference in performance if you used a carabiner with a smaller bend radius.
Would you guys be so kind to test your body weight and how many KN put on your body during a fall. I’m sure your subscribers would love a video like that lol
I would love to see a test of how short the tails of a fisherman's knot can be before the knot fails. Back when we were young stupid and broke, we'd sling nuts with very short tails to get the most "sling" for the money.
I'm entirely unfamiliar with climbing gear, but I am familiar with metallurgy. That looks to me like your "brassy" isn't brass. It could be aluminum, but I suspect it's a steel alloy with a brass layer on top. Allowing the soft bass to slightly deform to increase friction. The silver looks a little too uniform to be friction embedded aluminum.
OK, this is a dumb question, Ryan, but in some of your earlier videos. you talk about how aluminum carabiners should not be used as primary attachments at anchors because of cyclic loading. Do you guys have any tests that demonstrate this problem? Do you think you could do a test of that principle? If not, do you have any favorite sources for info on that? Thanks! Again, you guys are making the best test videos of climbing gear on youtube. Love your stuff.
Definitely be interesting to test at some point. As we understand it that principle is more applicable to highline anchors where the wind can generate thousands of cycles. The closer closer you take aluminium to its maximum strength the fewer cycles it can handle. A 24 kn hanger might handle 5,000 cycles at 4 kn but only 10 at 20kn.
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would like to see breaktest tricams on Rock 😁
will do more passive pro on real rock for sure
@@HowNOT2 could you maybe try some copperheads someday? That would be cool! Greetings from austria!
Laughing 5 seconds in. Knew you'd make some sort of joke like that.
I had to. I held back too.
Brass is really shiny at 3:45 when it experience shear forces. as the molecules get crushed against each other and deform, the texture changes and the gold effect it lost. same if you cut it with a saw (same shear force applies)
ive cut a lot of brass on bandsaw, lathe and mill. I have never seen it look like that before
nonsense
Somehow I knew the bonus was going to be a tricam, but was very disappointed it wasn't a pink tricam ;)
Soon™. Though it'll be a dyneema one, unless someone else sent nylon-slung versions.
The wires with red plastic I sent. To the best of my knowledge they are from around 1981 but never used. I have a pile of them so I sent a few to Ryan.
I’m very impressed that 40 years made very little difference.
🔥
Regarding material strength, steel wire is stable over time (compared to soft materials like Dyneema and nylon). While soft materials will lose strength as they degrade over time, metals only lose strength by experiencing high or repeated stresses. Since you never used them, you were not putting any stress on them (e.g. by repeatedly taking falls), so it's not surprising that they maintained their strength.
Get well Bobby! This is obviously before your “haircut“ and “ thumb adjustment”
Haha “thumb adjustment”
More tricam tests, please!
Pink tricam test would be great!
Hi ! I have been gived some olds Hexs from Chouinard Equipement (old name before Black Diamond) by a dude from my alpine club. Of course i have changed every rope and webbing on thoses olds-timers because they are 32 years old mini minimum.. But there is where things gonna interesting ! the holes in the Hex head has been sized for old thicker rope. but i wanted to setup a more thin and lighter rope instead. But because of the size difference the head was mooving too freely, so i have figured to fix that by a creative way, i have cross-twisted the rope inside the head ! It solve my problem but i'm not really aware about how the rope radius is augmtented and how it will affect the solidity.
You actually set the tricam on active position, passive position is placed like a nut, with the "rolled pin" on the side of the webbing. Acording to NBS it breaks at lower strength when placed in passive position so it woud be interesting to see that! Great video as always!
Would love to see real rock break tests. Was really interesting seeing how the cams preformed in different crack and placement variations.
My guess on the old hex with the dipped cable is; over time, from use, or even just sitting there, they are exposed to moisture. The coating on the cable made a perfect spot for moisture to get trapped. Even though it's a galvanized cable, any corrosion would have happened there first.
Definitely want to see nuts break tests on real rock! Esp. so I can show it to friends who get a little nervous trusting gear when following! Thanks for all y'all do, gang!
More tricams!!! Thanks for another fun, funny, fantastic show
Hexes are life. They make placements where the entire rock face would have to fail for it to pull.
Specifically those Wild Country Rockcentrics, soft slings. And if they get too noisy, you can put a layer of Dynamat on the inside lol
Definitely need to see a pink tricam tested!!
gunks are all about tricams pink red black!!
I meant brown not black...but mostly pink!!lol
I would love to see more about the tricams!
definitely want more tri-cam content
This was super interesting, I was told years ago that nuts were as strong as their cable and I guess that is true. Thanks for the tricam test, that was really interesting. You guys are doing great work.
Unless it's a small nut in sandstone
Thanks Ryan and Bobby for all you guys do.
heck yes, those outdoors in situ tests are really interesting, real rocks, real placements!!
Probably going to have to wait for bobby to be 100% again!!
I'd love to see this on real rock! I've whipped on cams but never on a nut. I'd love to see how different style placements affect their hold. Watching your real rock cam tests helped me make better placements!
How about trying czech-style knots/textile cams, or pebbles and hardware store nuts, like people used to use?
I second this. this would be extremely interesting. Also simulate a slung tree and chicken head
This!!
I think they did this. Basically the knot shrank and almost always fit through the gap.
and oh yes we will love to see the nuts tested on real rock. And another test on hexes placed in parallel (not tapering) cracks.
Already excited for tricams on Rock (as the bonus of stoppers on rock) 😉😄😄
I would totally join a live “The force is right” game with a few thousand other people 🤣💪
breaking at the nut's probably the ideal material efficiency, the cable's cheaper than the machining on those nuts.
could just be a difference in design philosophy some companies might just overdesigns the nut then they don't have to worry as much about certification because it'll just do what the cable they stick on it does.
Snaping cowbell hexes! Radical!
Spot on with the brassie assessment. They are soldered in with silver solder. It is very strong
You are doing a great job. Thanks from Poland
I love going on mountains.. i am not a rock climber i usually do iron way i don't know how you call it .. are mountain way on rocks but with all the stuff already in place and with a stainless cable fixed to the mountain every 5m all along the route from the bottom to the top of the mountain way.. BUT i love this video .. Very Very informative about gears and stuff very related to the climber safety.. because some times i use carabiner or ropes and flat ropes.. So really loved the video ... Hi from Italy
We americans have stolen your words. We call it Via Ferrata as well. It is becoming more popular in the US.
I absolutely love hexes. Started using them from the very first.
Really like the faster edits.
Yes ! More tricam break tests please ! 😊
Great to see the old school cord slings stand up, I feel so much better about my old gear even though I've retired it.
Saddle wedges are great in the Gunks. Those channels fit over pebbles and lock those things in.
Please bust more tricams I love them, so far the haven't failed even the .75 is super strong
I have a number of Chouinard Hexcentrics from 1972 that were slung with kernmantle rope. Want a couple to bust? It would be interesting to see how 49 years of existence, and lots of climbing affected their breaking strength. I'm in Santa Rosa and could bring them your way.
Of course we want more!
This would be a tough one to film but I would love to see a comparison of similar active/passive placements in different types of stone. I climb in the Red River Gorge a lot and wonder if sandstone there - which is a little less solid than other areas - effects the strength of certain pro (especially tri cams). Perhaps something to consider is slowly collecting videos/data of as you travel around.
Unfortunately you’ve been safe the whole time. Lol
Also wow that double fisherman tightening! I’ve always been meh that’s enough tail… durp going to add another inch or so just in case I load it with 20KN of force and I some how manage to survive.
On the large hex that got crushed maybe BD can put a cylinder of aluminium inside to oppose the crushing force. Shouldn't be difficult to manufacture since the sling/wire will keep it in place.
Hurrah for Campbell nuts; 2:00, nice inner curved arc for sling. Mine slung with 7mm Spectra, triple fisherman's, I suspect might surpass 20kN. Nothing feels as reassuring as a passive wedge in a constriction, set it and forget it. Cams and bolts just don't invoke the sense of absolute security.
How's the drop tower coming along? Can't wait to see nuts and hexes under some dynamic force!!
Overall these are some pretty good engineering designs for this rock climbing stuff
Yes please!!!! *REEL ROCK: BUSTING NUTS* up next
Would be cool to see nuts placed in their other other orientation (rotated 90 degrees). And then another neat thing would be passive vs. active placement of same size hex?
That smashed hex is awesome!
Thanks for tricam testing! Can't wait for nuts in rock :) Keep crushing guys!
We will!
Wow! Solid gear.
I'd be really interested to see end-wise placements of hexes, especially hand size or larger. Maybe some more cool collapsing shenanigans? Also would be cool to see off-side placements of nuts.
More tricams please!
Tip for future: convert the lbs to kgs aswell, it takes no time, adds to quality of the video and i'm sure alot of viewers would appriciate :) Great video!
Thanks!
We are measuring force not mass. KN (Metric) and lbf are both used to measure force whereas kg and lbs are used to measure mass.
@@HowNOT2 But wouldn't it work to convert lbf to kgf? Feels like i don't know what i'm talking about, sorry if it's completely wrong! :D
Would love to see tricam and nut placements in real rock! Thanks for doing what you do :)
Love your tests! Keep going - by a serious fun of yours
Yes!! TRI cams
Brilliant! Thank you for making this :)
Test outside!!
If you guys are looking for audience participation, maybe do some comment contests for the best guess of a break test
The red hex breaking like that is probably due to the low friction of your “nut crusher”. The lower the friction the higher the lateral force, and the hex gets squeezed. So this failure mode probably does not translate well to actual usage, since rock has higher friction.
should try dmm torque nuts, placed like a nut and under torque and see if there is much difference due to how their placed
Hey Ryan did you ever rerig that cam crusher so it holds cams better? Maybe a couple pieces of gnarly longboard griptape on each inside plate held on with spray epoxy might do the job. Love these tests! Thank you!!!
you don’t have to entice me to stay, you had me at nuts and cracks lol
My group does not love the nut life. Bunch'a CAM lovers! Passive sends are the best sends.
Tricams tricams tricams! The best of both worlds!
Unfortunately I may fall into the cam lover camp :P
Most larger nut designs today induce rotation to include some of those tested - so some are more or less semi passive????
There was some off brand a while back - never saw them in the wild - but was like a two piece wedge nut design - forget what company.... Like two nuts pinned together... Or was it they nested together - can’t remember separately???
"You might die if you use this"
"It's rated 6"
"Ohhh, Well. it's great then"
Hilarious.
If possible, I'd love to see tests on marginal placements, rather than bomber lab conditions -- I'm curious what kinds of placements do and don't hold!
Still have a set of those BD nuts so glad to know I may not die on them since I weigh a kn
For gear that is consistently breaking at the carabiner attachment, especially cams, would it make a difference if you increase the bend curvature at that connection point by using 2 carabiners to connect or a large diameter steel shackle?
Although not a conventional attachment method it would be interesting to see how strong the wire/slings are with the increased bend curvature or if they start breaking consistently elsewhere.
Makes you wonder why manufacturers haven't created a solution to this problem by designing a carabiner with a larger radius at the major load points
You should break test the Finsterwolder Quick outs
More tricams
watching that hex break was so satisfying.
The larger hex with the ½" webbing doesnt have a larger bend radius, rather it has two 90° radii
we want to see tricams in different positions and see how they behave. Very tricky to test that with real people
I guess now I will place my passive protection twice less than before ;)
Love the stress test videos!! Can you do a test on different knots? I am very curious about the strength and possibly of untying the Alpine butterfly bend vs fisherman's bend vs figure 8 bend and maby two bowlines to.. if this video is already made pliz show me! Love the LAB! Peace Norway😄
We have an upcoming episode that might answer some of your questions.
@@HowNOT2 sweeet looking forward to it 😄 hitting that Bell 👍
I'd definitely like to see the nuts tested in real rock, I feel like the point of failure, especially for the smaller nuts, will likely be where the nut wedges against the rock and how the rock holds up to those forces.
As always nice video guys! Keep going!
I would bet that the two that broke on the side of the cable eye ,broke there because the cable has has a coating. In my experience with spearfishing any coating on cable is a recipe for trapped moisture and hidden corrosion.
I love this channel!
Free subscription. Love it.
Have you tested any ascenders against different thicknesses of ropes?
Brassies in Eldo testing! Please!
Would be interesting to see how tough different rock materials are with the wedges 🤔
Ryan I know you're saying 'NewtonT' just so I will comment on this video. Well done, lad. BTW it's Newton*. haha
thank you!
I know. I just said it wrong so long i can't stop now haha
Since most of these wires are breaking at the carabiner, they might be breaking higher than rated because you are using a round locking carabiner to attach to the wire. Compared to a smaller wire gate carabiner that would normally be used with these, the bend radius of your carabiner is larger, which decreases the stress concentration on the wire, which potentially is what is making the wires break at a higher load than their rating. I'm curious if there would be any difference in performance if you used a carabiner with a smaller bend radius.
I like my tricams!
Would you guys be so kind to test your body weight and how many KN put on your body during a fall. I’m sure your subscribers would love a video like that lol
We will be doing more tests like this when my new and improved dynos come but this is one we did in the past ruclips.net/video/m8z6adEqaOs/видео.html
Interested to see DMM and Black Diamond micronuts tested.
We tested them in real rock. Video coming in the next few weeks. Stay tuned!
I mean reinforced on the inside you see quite a bit of aluminum rounding the shape
Can you test different types of slings basket hitched or girth hitched thru the nut's cable loop? Also more tricams=yes
you knew what u were doing with that thumbnail
I would love to see a test of how short the tails of a fisherman's knot can be before the knot fails. Back when we were young stupid and broke, we'd sling nuts with very short tails to get the most "sling" for the money.
I’ve got dyneema slung tri cams I think they are rated around 17kn or so.
I'm entirely unfamiliar with climbing gear, but I am familiar with metallurgy. That looks to me like your "brassy" isn't brass. It could be aluminum, but I suspect it's a steel alloy with a brass layer on top. Allowing the soft bass to slightly deform to increase friction. The silver looks a little too uniform to be friction embedded aluminum.
I sent you a set of CAMP dyneema tricams (#0.5, #1, #1.5, #2). Of course I want to see them break tested!
Those are in the box for the next time we go to real rock. Thanks
@@HowNOT2 I assumed so. Just joking over the "comment below" line!
Here is my interest!
Have you considered using skateboard grip tape for the cam adapter in order to create friction.
Vindicated!! I carried my big nuts on rope long after other folks had moved onto wires...
Tricams! Tricams! Tricams!
OK, this is a dumb question, Ryan, but in some of your earlier videos. you talk about how aluminum carabiners should not be used as primary attachments at anchors because of cyclic loading. Do you guys have any tests that demonstrate this problem? Do you think you could do a test of that principle? If not, do you have any favorite sources for info on that? Thanks! Again, you guys are making the best test videos of climbing gear on youtube. Love your stuff.
Machines for cyclic loading are crazy expensive, stuff needs to be loaded tens of thousands of times.
Definitely be interesting to test at some point. As we understand it that principle is more applicable to highline anchors where the wind can generate thousands of cycles. The closer closer you take aluminium to its maximum strength the fewer cycles it can handle. A 24 kn hanger might handle 5,000 cycles at 4 kn but only 10 at 20kn.