@L C I wouldn't get to into criticising Collins. Nobody knows what plans he had. The Republicans were definitely justified in seeing the Free Staters as complete traitors but I don't think Collins deserves this vilification anymore. I'm sure he would've been a greater leader than dev anyway.
How were they traitors the IRA had virtually run out of ammunition and had the British known there would have been no treaty and as for not knowing the future plans of Michael Collins read the path to freedom
+Luke William More that it would bring up a lot of bad memories. A lot of people died in the 1922-23 civil war. That, and the Assassin's Creed series has been widely criticised for historical Revisionism in the past.
a cool assasins creed game after black flag assisins creed went a bit shit and stale and not only the amount of people who are still scarred from these tragic events that happened rest in peace to all those who died and fought for there beliefs
My great uncle John Francis Mulqueen was a Sgt in the 1st Western Division of the Irish Free State; he was pro-treaty. I have to agree with Colins. His vision later became reality and his pragmatism is what has led Ireland on the path to independance. He began to heal the bitter wounds of the Irish War of Independance, and he knew when to fight and when to make peace; he had true leadership qualities. If he lived to see it through I think he would have been great for Ireland. I hope one day that Ireland and Britain will be fully united, either as allied independent nations or as part of the UK but more needs to be done to heal this broken relationship.
thats easy to say if you're on the right side of the border...if you're on the wrong side...welcome to "A Protestant parliament for a Protestant people"...
Honestly I think our country dodged a bullet with partition. Even now but far more so then Unionist extremism would never tolerate a United Ireland. In my view the result would have been a hugely bloody civil war in the North far worse even than the troubles. In our States infancy it is unlikely that democracy and the ideals that were fought for could have survived under these conditions. A descent into mass ethnic and sectarian killings was very much on the cards, probably resulting in a discrediting of the idea of an independent Ireland and British reoccupation leading to even further bloody separatist conflict. Today however in the far more stable, secular and tolerant Ireland unification is very possible and should be undertaken should the democratic will support it.
My great grandad fought for the free state army and my grandad claims my great great grandad never spoke to my great grandad ever again . Split families in two so sad and unnecessary
My Great Uncle was IRA at this time. He spent Dec 1922 to Dec 1923 in a Internment cap in Kildare, which is where my family's from, Kilmead Co Kildare. I got a copy of his release form, on it along with his signature he wrote IRA Solder, and he was a soldier.
@@BobbyMulqueen I'm not sure, my dad passed away in 2014. He knew all about it, i was born and bred in London, I'm only half Irish. I know he and my family loved Michael Collins, my dad was named after him, as am I, but i know my family hated De Valera. There's a quote from Michael Collins my dad used to say, To go for a drink is one thing. To be driven to it is another. I'll have a look at my dad's old records of the matter.
@@BobbyMulqueen The only thing that treaty was useful for was wiping your arse, as it basically caused a civil war and I bet the british parliament were hoping that this would be the outcome...
Dev hated Collins and wanted him out of the way and that is the only reason why he sent Collins to London. He knew that the only thing Collins could have done was to sign the treaty.
I'm irish and from dublin remember the post office that had the sside torn down michel Collins someone in my class is in the collins famliy and is at the museum so yea
My Grandfather fought the Black and Tans in North Tipperary- He was on the Republican side later on, and was given a choice of a one-way ticket to NYC or Sidney...
john o neill however he did not want to bring Ireland into a conflict it was not prepared for, also there is doubt as to whether the British were truthful in this offer
hey my family are all ethnic scottish protestants but i consider myself irish and love irish culture more than anything i was raised in Northern ireland in the 80's and my family always got on with both the planters and native irish. And many great irish rebel nationalist wher protestants.But i am an atheist protestant now .
The DUP deal with Tories might make this happen 13 million voted for British labour Party. I have joined and support sinn fein and promise you this will vote SNP out of Glasgow in future general election. Rural Ireland is Irish Republican.
@River Birch, No, in fact Britain loses 10bn pounds a year because of NI. It is because majority of people in NI were sent there from Scotland in 1600s to divide the Irish people and breed them out. Thankfully it didn't work. When Ireland fought and won for independence, NI was to remain in British jurisdiction. Britain would now gladly give NI back, infact they are slowly transitioning into the idea. There are lots of All Island services now, including Irish sport and language centres around NI.
in reply to crunchy ,if you would bother to check history you would find the Henry the 8th was never a protestant and indeed was known for persecution of protestants
Henry, V111 made himself head of the established church. He did not recognise the Pope, therefore he was a Catholic but, not a Roman Catholic. He burned Protestants.
@@conlaiarla That sir is your opinion it isnt for any mortal to decide who is a idiot ,heretic mearly means not in agreement with the majority .I live my life on the premise that he who is baptised and believes shall be saved .Whether or not Henry was in commune with the Bishop of Rome changes not the fact Henry still followed catholic ways although correctly destroying idolised images which I believe was correct biblically .When all said and done we will only be judged by god and no one on earth .Call no man on this earth thy father
The Revolution in Ireland was Justified! As long as there was British rule in Ireland there would always be Irish people who would Rebel against that. The British government had the power to bring peace in Ireland but they never wanted that.
Collins should have rejected the Treaty and fought on, even if that meant defeat. A united Ireland within the UK couldn't have been any worse than the horror that followed.
why did this war have to come i think that North and South Ireland come togeter not being part of the UK but the Common wealth so Irealnd can still do many things practually everything with no persacution think it correct spelling and the loyalist will still feel their connection to the Queen
crunchy2k. You are very ignorant. Henry 8 started the Church of England because he couldn't get a divorce from the Pope. He became head of the church in England instead of the pope. He was a devout Catholic and very much against Martin Luther, the German who was one of the prime movers in the Protestant movement. He was against the wealth and privilege of the Roman Catholic church. There is no one Protestant church. If it has no morality what about the Koptic church and Orthodox churches? They pre date the Roman Catholic church.
![Chuckyy - Devil Hours [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/f3wZGj0VnZU/mqdefault.jpg)
My left ear loved this
Omg same
Same
Omg I was so mad with my EarPods 🤦🏻♂️😂🥴
my left ears eardrums burst
Good to know it wasn’t just me lol
A bloody war which turned brothers against each other. Éireann go brách.
Skipper DelCara I hope you know Britain and Ireland were never brothers and they both hated each other. Well, Ireland did.
@L C I wouldn't get to into criticising Collins. Nobody knows what plans he had. The Republicans were definitely justified in seeing the Free Staters as complete traitors but I don't think Collins deserves this vilification anymore. I'm sure he would've been a greater leader than dev anyway.
@James Henderson True to an extent, but I'd lay the blame more on Dev for letting partition sink in
How were they traitors the IRA had virtually run out of ammunition and had the British known there would have been no treaty and as for not knowing the future plans of Michael Collins read the path to freedom
This would make a pretty cool Assasin's Creed game.
***** Why? Ireland bans media involving history?
+Luke William More that it would bring up a lot of bad memories. A lot of people died in the 1922-23 civil war.
That, and the Assassin's Creed series has been widely criticised for historical Revisionism in the past.
a cool assasins creed game after black flag assisins creed went a bit shit and stale and not only the amount of people who are still scarred from these tragic events that happened rest in peace to all those who died and fought for there beliefs
@@Horus-Lupercal There are world war 2 games and that was more recent.
This was real history, not a computer game.
My great uncle John Francis Mulqueen was a Sgt in the 1st Western Division of the Irish Free State; he was pro-treaty. I have to agree with Colins. His vision later became reality and his pragmatism is what has led Ireland on the path to independance. He began to heal the bitter wounds of the Irish War of Independance, and he knew when to fight and when to make peace; he had true leadership qualities. If he lived to see it through I think he would have been great for Ireland.
I hope one day that Ireland and Britain will be fully united, either as allied independent nations or as part of the UK but more needs to be done to heal this broken relationship.
The fact that an imperialist like you is pro-treaty is proof it was capitulation.
thats easy to say if you're on the right side of the border...if you're on the wrong side...welcome to "A Protestant parliament for a Protestant people"...
Honestly I think our country dodged a bullet with partition. Even now but far more so then Unionist extremism would never tolerate a United Ireland. In my view the result would have been a hugely bloody civil war in the North far worse even than the troubles. In our States infancy it is unlikely that democracy and the ideals that were fought for could have survived under these conditions. A descent into mass ethnic and sectarian killings was very much on the cards, probably resulting in a discrediting of the idea of an independent Ireland and British reoccupation leading to even further bloody separatist conflict. Today however in the far more stable, secular and tolerant Ireland unification is very possible and should be undertaken should the democratic will support it.
My great grandad fought for the free state army and my grandad claims my great great grandad never spoke to my great grandad ever again . Split families in two so sad and unnecessary
I need to make a correction. Joseph O'Sullivan was my Great Uncle, not my great,great Uncle.
Great
My Great Uncle was IRA at this time. He spent Dec 1922 to Dec 1923 in a Internment cap in Kildare, which is where my family's from, Kilmead Co Kildare. I got a copy of his release form, on it along with his signature he wrote IRA Solder, and he was a soldier.
Was he pro treaty IRA or was he anti treat IRA though? Pro treat IRA became the "National Army" of the Irish Free State.
@@BobbyMulqueen I'm not sure, my dad passed away in 2014. He knew all about it, i was born and bred in London, I'm only half Irish. I know he and my family loved Michael Collins, my dad was named after him, as am I, but i know my family hated De Valera. There's a quote from Michael Collins my dad used to say, To go for a drink is one thing. To be driven to it is another. I'll have a look at my dad's old records of the matter.
@@BobbyMulqueen The only thing that treaty was useful for was wiping your arse, as it basically caused a civil war and I bet the british parliament were hoping that this would be the outcome...
Dev hated Collins and wanted him out of the way and that is the only reason why he sent Collins to London. He knew that the only thing Collins could have done was to sign the treaty.
The oath of alligence to George 5th was almost the worst part of the treaty for the Irish people.
@@dfesdiasif yea it bothered them more than losing 6 of the country's counties....how shameful is that?
He could have refused to sign.
@@dfesdiasif The oath was to the Free State itself.
my granddad was in the civil war.
UrbanRunner225 ori
What a waste of human life, resources and moral that in its entirety Ireland has never been able to get any closure on this sad episode
See the forgery on the signatures. shown to me and on the treaty book.
I'm irish and from dublin remember the post office that had the sside torn down michel Collins someone in my class is in the collins famliy and is at the museum so yea
3A gang
My Grandfather fought the Black and Tans in North Tipperary- He was on the Republican side later on, and was given a choice of a one-way ticket to NYC or Sidney...
Seamus322 did he leave Ireland?
Dev was offered a united ireland in 1940.
john o neill however he did not want to bring Ireland into a conflict it was not prepared for, also there is doubt as to whether the British were truthful in this offer
No he wasn't that's shite talk
united 32 :D
R.I.P Michael Collins (Ireland’s only Hero)
hey my family are all ethnic scottish protestants but i consider myself irish and love irish culture more than anything i was raised in Northern ireland in the 80's and my family always got on with both the planters and native irish. And many great irish rebel nationalist wher protestants.But i am an atheist protestant now .
Why won't England let Northern Ireland go? Is it money?
Have you ever heard of the Ulster Unionist people?
The DUP deal with Tories might make this happen 13 million voted for British labour Party. I have joined and support sinn fein and promise you this will vote SNP out of Glasgow in future general election. Rural Ireland is Irish Republican.
@@thomasboyd8393 and Northern Ireland is British, because the majority want it to be so.
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💚
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pogchamp 3a pogchamp 3a pogchamp 3a pogchamp 3a pogchamp 3a
River Birch. The UK will let N. Ireland go when the majority of the voters in N. Ireland vote for it to leave. Something Scotland might do this year.
It's a pity they ignored the express wishes of over 75% of the population before they carved the place up idiot.
@@brendanw45
So the right to self determination is based on to whom ever it suits?
Nice one. Classic double think.
very funny
@River Birch, No, in fact Britain loses 10bn pounds a year because of NI. It is because majority of people in NI were sent there from Scotland in 1600s to divide the Irish people and breed them out. Thankfully it didn't work. When Ireland fought and won for independence, NI was to remain in British jurisdiction.
Britain would now gladly give NI back, infact they are slowly transitioning into the idea. There are lots of All Island services now, including Irish sport and language centres around NI.
Ciarán Uí Néill this
The most bullshit
Oh not more silly talk of history only starting in the 1600s . The stupidity, wilful ignorance and prejudice is enormous.
8 years ago...
The Republic is not Defined in our Constitution nor in the declaration Articles of 1948, So what are we?
An Irish nation.
in reply to crunchy ,if you would bother to check history you would find the Henry the 8th was never a protestant and indeed was known for persecution of protestants
Henry, V111 made himself head of the established church. He did not recognise the Pope, therefore he was a Catholic but, not a Roman Catholic. He burned Protestants.
He was not in communion with Rome . He was most certainly a protestant and a damnable heretic. Such nonsense from you.... idiotic in fact .
@@conlaiarla That sir is your opinion it isnt for any mortal to decide who is a idiot ,heretic mearly means not in agreement with the majority .I live my life on the premise that he who is baptised and believes shall be saved .Whether or not Henry was in commune with the Bishop of Rome changes not the fact Henry still followed catholic ways although correctly destroying idolised images which I believe was correct biblically .When all said and done we will only be judged by god and no one on earth .Call no man on this earth thy father
ayo 3a 😈
Revolutions usually consume their instigators.
The Revolution in Ireland was Justified! As long as there was British rule in Ireland there would always be Irish people who would Rebel against that. The British government had the power to bring peace in Ireland but they never wanted that.
lmao "atheist protestant" do u realize what you're saying? That's like being a Christian Marxist lol
Collins should have rejected the Treaty and fought on, even if that meant defeat. A united Ireland within the UK couldn't have been any worse than the horror that followed.
What horror?
@@Horizon344 The rocky picture horror show you fuckwit... "it's just a step to the left then a step to the right... lets do the time warp again..."
why did this war have to come i think that North and South Ireland come togeter not being part of the UK but the Common wealth so Irealnd can still do many things practually everything with no persacution think it correct spelling and the loyalist will still feel their connection to the Queen
Puerile suggestion. Utterly ridiculous.
how could Collins accept this treaty, leaving us up north to the brits truly unforgivable!
Disgusting 😢
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crunchy2k. You are very ignorant. Henry 8 started the Church of England because he couldn't get a divorce from the Pope. He became head of the church in England instead of the pope. He was a devout Catholic and very much against Martin Luther, the German who was one of the prime movers in the Protestant movement. He was against the wealth and privilege of the Roman Catholic church.
There is no one Protestant church. If it has no morality what about the Koptic church and Orthodox churches? They pre date the Roman Catholic church.