The Troubles deserves its own series, I think. And since there are still a good number of those still alive from that period. This was very interesting. Yeah Warographics is the best so far. Not as snide, more informative.
@@--enyo-- what makes a Civil War worse is that it's not a fight against an invading enemy but against your fellow countrymen And if you think genocide on the level of the Holocaust doesn't happen in a civil war... Well just go look up Rwandan Civil War and Genocide , Liberian Civil War, Cambodian Civil War and genocide, the Yugoslavia Civil War, the Chinese Civil War and the Cultural revolution which might as well have been a civil war.... You're forced to fight against people who were once your friends and neighbours, who had the same culture and spoke the same language WW2 at least we could distinguish who the good guys were and who that bad guys were... In a Civil War... It's not that easy
The Irish civil war consisted of cousins and even in some cases Brothers fighting on opposite sides, many of the soldiers on both sides were world war one veterans, suffering post traumatic stress disorder ,unable to go back to civilian life, many needed a blood lust , (many civilians killed in crossfire) even the black and tans were criminals or post traumatic stress world war one veterans,
1:10 - Chapter 1 - Broken dreams 5:00 - Chapter 2 - Things fall apart 8:55 - Chapter 3 - Days of crisis 12:50 - Chapter 4 - The republic , reborn 16:45 - Chapter 5 - Run to the hills 20:30 - Chapter 6 - The bitter end
Great series Simon. Shamefully we were never really taught about our history in any great detail in schools. It all depended on what your primary school teachers political leanings were. One year a your teacher would talk about how Collins was a great man and DeValera was only a trouble maker and the next year another teacher would say the opposite. Thank you for covering it the trilogy. You should do a biographies video on Collins or DeValera. Fun fact, DeValera was born in America and the fact that he had American citizenship was one of the reasons he wasn't executed by the British when captured.
The reason Dev wasn't shot was actually because he was hardly involved, he never fired a shot. Of the hundreds rounded up, his name was so far down the list that he didn't warrant shooting. Countess Markievich came closer to execution because she was actually involved. The Brits decided only to shoot the main guys. It actually had nothing to do with his passport
Schools have an infuriating habit of glazing over inconvenient stories. I live in a liberal part of Washington state and they routinely ignore the fact that natives owned slaves becsuse that muddies the waters and broke the clean good vs evil & white vs non white version of slavery, they ignored mistreatment of Chinese and other workers in cities like Seattle since Seattle is supposed to be a liberal mecca, and they largely ignored previous exploration of the pacific northwest before Lewis and Clark since that ruins the myth that Lewis and Clark more or less discovered our state.
I have been studying this period and find Simon’s 3 videos on this period are great! Very well researched, with great detail. Thank you Simon. And you are right, the “ballsing up” of the British went a long way toward assuring Irish independence.
@@warographics643also more ppl in Liverpool consider themselves Irish than all the ppl in the north of Ireland that consider themselves British. And the losers now think they can write the history. Only ppl the Irish killed were English and we are proud of it. U ppl murdered and raped the 3rd world
Great documentary. At this very time, I am writing my master's thesis in Ireland on the assassination of Michael Collins, comparing the Irish War of Independence and the Civil War with the Yugoslav War of Independence between 1941-45. Really looking forward to the Northern Ireland Troubles episode.
That's a statement just crying out for correction. As with every country there are a myriad of beliefs on every subject. Your comment is just feeding into stereotypes and is in itself a trite cliche.
My great grandfather was anti treaty In this war, only 19. 17 when he fought the Brits. He was one of the only survivors of the column he was in in Limerick
I typed this one into the search with what I assumed was a sense of false hope that he would have covered this topic. I love this mans approach to covering war , whether it be modern news updates or stories from times passed the way he speaks on solely the facts , respects the history and culture of the nations he's discussing when he can and entirely avoids it when the situation calls for silence on that front , as well as how well spoken , concise and articulate his descriptions are. truly in my opinion a master of the craft of narration and informing and the best channel of this genre on this platform currently in my opinion , so I'm sure you can understand why I was so pleased to see him cover the topic of my homelands worst divide until that point and since then ( opting to not draw a comparison to the division of the troubles as that was a far different conflict in a number of reasons predominantly being the scale , context , and its sectarian nature )
As a great grandson of Irish immigrants, I’m very pleased with learning about all the 20th century history I didn’t know was in my blood. Thank you, Simon. Looking forward to your video on The Troubles.
Simon will you please do a Biographical on Michael Collins. That would be great. Thank You Team Whistler. Love all your channels. Keep up the great work. The movie by the same name focused on the make believe love story instead of what was actually going on.
There is another lesser known Micheal Collins movie which stars Brendan Gleeson as Collins... Some what ironic as he played the 2nd in command to Collins in the Liam Neeson movie and Gleeson actually does look a LOT more like Collins in his movie than leeson did.
@@Kickback-dm7zt do you know the name of said movie I would really like to check that out. The best actor in the movie was... Dammit I can remember his name but he played Hans in Die Hard he looked just like the historical figure he was portraying
Excellent video! Very interesting and thorough. I'm looking forward to you doing The Troubles.. I think they deserve their own series. Great job Simon and team 👏 💯 😊
Credit to you lads from an Irishman these videos you've done on Irish history have been balanced, knowledgeable and really interesting. As someone from the north I would be very interested to see you do a video on the troubles
Thanks for doing this series on the history of Irish independence to Simon and all at warographics. As an Irishman and history nerd this is a great account of the events. Only minor criticism is you could have done with a pronunciation guide like on the casual criminalist. Big fan of many of your shows thanks for all the entertainment.
Simon Whistler has given up on correct pronunciation. It's what he's been doing from a few years ago when he had four, maybe five, channels . I watched this video thinking he would cripple pronunciation of the Irish words and of course he did. I gave him one last chance to redeem himself and he bollixed it.
I’m gonna be real. You are the most underrated RUclips channel I’ve ever watched. The fact you don’t have over a million subscribers is actually crazy to me. Keep up the quality videos and incredible content. Here is one more sub to get you to that goal! Just wow!
You’re correct that Rocky won the moral victory, but he did NOT get the technical win. He lost the fight. That’s why Apollo immediately tells him there won’t be a rematch. Rocky says he doesn’t want one; he went the distance. He got his moral victory.
As I said in your previous vids on Ireland, I really hope you continue to modern times.. Great wee series and truth without politics, prejudice or propaganda.
Love that you're teaching people about early 20th century Irish Politics. If I have a peeve about your video is the mispronounciation of certain Irish names and words. My great grandfather was a member of a flying column in North Cork during the civil war however he quit after pro treaty forces crack down hard after Collins' assassination. He'd simply buried his rifle and gun in a field and went home.
Sadly another subject that isn't (or wasn't when I was in High School 1989-93) taught or even mentioned... But now Mr. Whistler is my History/Social Studies Instructor! I am blessed to be able to absorb this information.
Well, I'm not going to defend the US education system because its pretty shocking by all accounts, but in this case to be fair, why would the Irish war of independence be covered in US schools? I mean the US war of independence isn't exactly covered in our schools, why would it be?
Studied this period for many years now and wouldn't hestitate to say I'm highly impressed by the context, accuracy and balance offered in this analysis; possibly the single best summary video I've seen on the topic. This also gives me a much greater level of confidence in trusting the analysis offered in topics where I have limited knowledge. Excellent, Highly recommend.
Need to work on pronunciation of Irish names and places but still love your videos, particularly on Ireland. One of the best videos on this subject I’ve found, and the best not done by an Irish person I’ve found, love to see you do one on the various organisations/army’s that were involved and how they evolved from war of independence to civil war to troubles ( Irish army, police, ric, ruc, ira, uda, blue shirts, Garda, etc)
There is definitely room for improvement in that area, maybe have a person of whichever nation he is covering (obviously Irish this case) go through the places and people's names. It would just lift the production to yet another level.
Haha I had to laugh at the way you pronounced some of their names and locations. Very good documentary and would love to see Michael Collins covered as it's coming up to the 100th anniversary of his death.
Mick Colllins gave Ireland independance for sure. Not only did he mastermind the campaighn however nasty. He knew when to talk,having made his point. In short,he knew what made us tick.
I LOVE the earnestness expressed here! The heartfelt meaning comes across in the view so well! It IS depraved whenever people take up War to such an extent that “the cause” is lost in the joy (?) of fighting. And hosting civil war in the middle of two so-called World Wars would demoralize, traumatize & leave any nation or segment of one caught in the crossfires irreparably cynical, hardened, bitter & logically-so. YET the Irish people are nearly always, in the context of the USA-concept, the MOST willing, most spirited, & most generously-inclined to speak up, speak out, & put a stop to all nonsense (for the longest duration) MORE than ANY grouping of White people yet landed in The Americas region. More heart, we call it, generally-speaking. THANKS so much for everything you’ve shared yourself! I found the vlog informed-yet-glib personally, too.☘️ I also found that in an obvious thrust to appeal to a male demograph, (no pun intended) typically, women’s & families’ stories weren’t given honorable mention whatsoever. What about the Irish married to Brits? What about schools & who taught there after these skirmishes? How were children growing up in occupied territories impacted psychologically? How many yearn to live abroad & feel a LOT less “connected” to either side, one way or the other? Did ANY government DO anything especially to restore these families, outside veterans’ burials?? ALL of those matters deserved some explanation in the context of War, imo, as an Area of Activity taken up entirely too often, said to “resolve” matters. Or out of sheer greed. Or the sheer depravity for “conquest,” & exerting power. Power ungrounded in anything logical, more often than not. Be Blessed. Many thinks. 💚🌱
Really enjoying your Irish series Simon, hopefully you could do another wargraphics or a biographics episode on some other Irish figures like Theobold Wolfetone and the United Irishman
@@ianmoore3470 as an ex defences forces member (62nd Res MP Coy) I love videos on the military history of my country.... Please continue with videos like this. 🙏🙏🙏🙏👍👍👍👍
Would love an episode on The Troubles to round out the modern conflicts of Ireland. There are so many more that came before them though and I hope Simon will cover them eventually.
Truly tragic history. I am an Australian grandchild of someone who fought for the Free State Army, but was also fighting his brother in the IRA. He left Ireland for Australia after seeing his brother get executed by a firing squad. Thanks for the series, Simon. Very well done.
I watched a two part video on another channel about “The Troubles” and I learned a lot about that horrific part of Irish history. I was only a kid in the 80s and heard on the news often about either an IRA bombing in London, or an incident in Northern Ireland. In my youthful ignorance I thought England and Ireland were in an all out war.
The Siege of Jadoville, could this be the next video in one of your channels? How a Company of Irish soldiers held against over 500 men. The treatment of the Irish soldiers by their own government when they came home.
I need a simon blooper reel or something because this guy has 9 channels always posting. His back log is either insane and got himself covered or this guy is nonstop working
Hey Simon, I would LOVE to see the Opium wars on this channel If you're up for it. I know it revolves more around trade but there's some fascinating twists I think you'd cover really well Thanks for all your channels by the way, huge fan
Michael Collins, the man that brought the British Empire to its knees. The man who revolutionised guerrilla warfare. The man voted 2nd in the British Armies greatest opposition Generals list. One of the greatest military leaders of all time, to defeat the largest and most powerful enpire the world has ever known with so few resources is a feat Alexander and Caesar would have be awe struck by. Sadly murdered long before his time.
@@David-cb1ct First of all, he didn't defeat the British empire. British public opinion forced the British government to call a ceasefire. If Collins was the glorious victor you describe then how was Lloyd-George able to bully him into signing the Anglo-Irish treaty under threat of all out war? Collins himself said it was tantamount to signing his own death warrant which meant he was more afraid of the British taking the gloves off than he was of being killed by his own people. Also, why would a victorious leader be taking orders from Winston Churchill? After all, he did send Collins a telegram telling him to get the anti treaty IRA out of the Four Courts or he would come over and do it for him. Collins duly complied because he knew Churchill had 100000 troops on stand by to reoccupy the whole of Ireland if necessary. All Collins achieved is what had been offered to Ireland prior to WWI, home rule. Nothing else.
Sorry David but he didn't defeat anyone...his picture hung in my Nans front room. As in most successful partisan campaigns, his actions made continued war unpalatable for the British govt of the day, at huge cost. Short of marching into someone's burning capital and wiping the floor with their armies, real defeat is rare. Asymmetrical resolution, favouring the side with the stronger hand is the norm, in terms of historical precedent.
@@David-cb1ct on noticing your previous posts to ppl stating glaring errors in your assessment and to answer your first rude assumption - unlike yourself I am v educated and wasn’t being pedantic at all, stating fact. I am well versed in all military history, so pls come back to me when you have formed your own opinion and not ripped it from Wikipedia.
Fascinating and little known chapter in European history! My little connection - in 1960 as a teenager in Poland I collected autographs of foreign leaders. At the time it was simple - just write a letter in broken English and a month later a response would. Among many I received back, one was from President de Valera. Of course, I had no idea who he was forty years prior.
De Velara caused the Civil war and ended up leading the "Free State" until Fianna Gael declared a republic in 1949, he wasn't a fool but a calculating politician. The death of Michael Collins removed any chance of a civilised war. The hard liners on both sides got to work.
Wow... fantastic job. My two grandfathers never spoke to each other. They fought on opposite sides of this civil war. The bitterness this war had on Irish people has taken generations to clear. It still can be raked up in times of anger to this day. Thank you, Simon, for covering this.
The remarkable thing was De Valera causing the fracture with his stubborn fixation on full immediate independence, but in less than two decades becoming Prime Minister, and in less than thirty years seeing a peaceful transition to a republic. But in the meantime his stubborn refusal to bend would cost hundreds of lives.
I absolutely detest Dev, but you need to realise that the attitude you are describing wasn't just one that Dev had, there were many in Ireland who wanted that and who saw any concessions given to the British (one of the most important ones being the oath of allegiance to the King) as being a slight on all those who had been killed, there was an absolute hatred for the British, one which survives to this day among many anti-treaty side and supporters who are still alive today. When I was in school here in Ireland (over 20 years ago) I had to volunteer for a week in an old folks home as part of my secondary school curriculum, there was a woman in there whose brother (or brothers I can't remember) were murdered by the British, when she heard the English accent of the girl who was volunteering also she point blank refused to speak to her or even interact with her in any way, because she was English.
Great Videos about the Topic, but one is obviously missing, when comes the video about the Troubles to finish the topic? Would love to learn more about that too
This Is the tragedy of civil war. My grand captured by the B&Ts and was due an execution. He supported Dev in subsequent civil war but refused to fight his friend who saved him and moved to the USA due to this. He died by a car running him over 5 days later
Fun fact that 1 third of ulster is actually in the Republic.. The counties of Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal are in the province of ulster but also in the Republic.
I feel like the events of the Irish Civil War were partly fueled by the ego of Eamon Devalera. In one of his speeches to whip up discontent with the Anglo-Irish Treaty, he openly talked about Civil War, calling on supporters: "I say, when you're in a good fighting position, then fight on!" In addition, his speech in Munster destabilised thing further: "They would have to wade through Irish blood, through the blood of the soldiers of the Irish government and through perhaps, the blood of some of the members of the government in order to get Irish freedom!" Given how little influence he had by the time of the Civil War effectively at an end, I'm surprised his speech had any influence: "Further struggle on your part, would now be in vain, to continue the struggle in arms is unwise in the national interest. Military victory must be allowed to rest, for the moment, with those who have destroyed the Republic," All of the bloodshed and bitterness from 1922-23 could have been avoided if he had engaged in what Collins had advocatedfrom the start, after signing the Anglo-Irish Treaty, to gradually dismantle the Free State from within
Its a load of myth Collins had it right.The IRA had next to no munitions. The Brits had so many they were throwing them in the sea and did so for the next twenty years. 'British Empire on its Knees' - Yeah Right, Even The Germans did not manage that and they werre a worthy enemy.
Thanks, team. I hope that you have educated others to the ultimate futility of such struggles. I kinda doubtit, though. We're such small - brains. Can't fight our way out of a paper bag, it seems.
I could almost SWEAR at 5:58, Frank X. Flood is in the rear standing 4th from the left in that still photo of a regiment! Can’t make out ranks or anyone else “familiar,” but weren’t he & Patrick Doyle of the same unit?
Just letting you know,dont know if you know this,but its fact.Michael Collins was shot dead by an ex British army sniper ,ex RIC man who defected to the IRA,strange world.
Good video but probably could have capped off the series by explaining that under DeValaras leadership, the treaty was dismantled and Ireland did eventually become a republic in 1937. A pretty key detail. Also adds to the hero or villain debate over Dev.
I never really heard about this part of history (mainly because I'm American and only have like 2% Irish in my family.) But this series made me interested in Irish history.
Thank you for covering The Civil War, the War best forgotten, it did way more damage than The Tan War did, starting out as a family row that turned into a political disaster for all. Both sides were correct but only one could win. The Treaty was Ireland's Brexit it was not ovenready, political careers crashed people Ireland could have done with died in an orgy of bloodletting, one issue that caused the problems were the 81 executions many were summary some retaliation, bitterness for years.
Would like more videos on other wars fought by the British narrorated by Sir Simon Whitsle 😊 I suggest the following: Opium Wars Boer Wars Zulu Wars and the First Anglo-Burman war.
Great video. You might wanna look up how to pronounce those Gaelic terms and names though, Cathal for example really isn't pronounce as you'd think it would be xD
I think it'd be great if Simon could do a Biographics video on Eamon Devalera. Give an insight into the events of his life that (rightly or wrongly) shaped his thinking. In my opinion, his best moment was when he gave a speech, days after VE Day when Winston Churchill (in his victory speech) bitterly attacked Devalera and Ireland for declaring itself neutral in WW2. In it, Devalera mentioned the following: "Mr Churchill makes it clear, that in certain circumstances, he would have violated our neutrality and would likely justify his actions through 'Britain's necessity'. Surely Mr Churchill must see, that like minded justification were used to justify similar acts of aggression elsewhere, and no small nation adjoining a great power could ever hope to be permitted go its own way in peace. "Mr Churchill is proud of Britain's stand alone, after France had fallen and before America entered the war. Could he not find it in his heart, the generosity to acknowledge, that there's a small nation that stood alone, not for one year or two, but for 700 years against aggression?"
We were never thought about the civil war in any depth in school. Those who xommited atrocities have not even faced justice. Much like what has happened in Spain with their recovery from their civil war and Franco's regime.
Collins was a hero to most. Even to those like me who probably disagreed with his position post war of independence. But he died in uniform in a gunfight during a civil war. A sad day indeed. It took us years to recover from Britain's rule and helped by participating in the biggest trading block , the EU, and the peace dividend from the Good Friday Agreement, both are under threat from anti democratic unionist politicians. When the island was split over 80% of the islands production was in N Ireland. Now its mid teens with the rest of Ireland being one of the wealthiest places in the world and Britain looking for any excuse to get rid of N Ireland from their union (imo)
from the 1916 video to this I guarantee Simon's subs have gone up without a doubt
Hey, i live in you
To be sure to be sure
The Troubles deserves its own series, I think. And since there are still a good number of those still alive from that period. This was very interesting.
Yeah Warographics is the best so far. Not as snide, more informative.
Oh it must be coming shortly
The horror of a dirty weekend with Nigel Farage!
I said the same to myself. This series here could be a 6 or 7 part series including the troubles.
No war more soul-destroying and heartbreaking. No war as cruel and callous as a civil one..
I mean, don’t get me wrong. It’s bad. But World War Two included the Holocaust and Imperial Japan…
@@--enyo-- what makes a Civil War worse is that it's not a fight against an invading enemy but against your fellow countrymen
And if you think genocide on the level of the Holocaust doesn't happen in a civil war... Well just go look up Rwandan Civil War and Genocide , Liberian Civil War, Cambodian Civil War and genocide, the Yugoslavia Civil War, the Chinese Civil War and the Cultural revolution which might as well have been a civil war.... You're forced to fight against people who were once your friends and neighbours, who had the same culture and spoke the same language
WW2 at least we could distinguish who the good guys were and who that bad guys were... In a Civil War... It's not that easy
@@cyborgchicken3502 same goes for the insurgents in the Middle East, they blend in with the “peaceful” population and cloudy the ROE.
The Irish civil war consisted of cousins and even in some cases Brothers fighting on opposite sides, many of the soldiers on both sides were world war one veterans, suffering post traumatic stress disorder ,unable to go back to civilian life, many needed a blood lust , (many civilians killed in crossfire) even the black and tans were criminals or post traumatic stress world war one veterans,
"what's so civil, about war"
1:10 - Chapter 1 - Broken dreams
5:00 - Chapter 2 - Things fall apart
8:55 - Chapter 3 - Days of crisis
12:50 - Chapter 4 - The republic , reborn
16:45 - Chapter 5 - Run to the hills
20:30 - Chapter 6 - The bitter end
Great series Simon. Shamefully we were never really taught about our history in any great detail in schools. It all depended on what your primary school teachers political leanings were. One year a your teacher would talk about how Collins was a great man and DeValera was only a trouble maker and the next year another teacher would say the opposite. Thank you for covering it the trilogy. You should do a biographies video on Collins or DeValera. Fun fact, DeValera was born in America and the fact that he had American citizenship was one of the reasons he wasn't executed by the British when captured.
I thought he already covered those guys on Biographics?
The reason Dev wasn't shot was actually because he was hardly involved, he never fired a shot. Of the hundreds rounded up, his name was so far down the list that he didn't warrant shooting. Countess Markievich came closer to execution because she was actually involved. The Brits decided only to shoot the main guys. It actually had nothing to do with his passport
Like most of the time though as in this case the truth definitely isn't black and white
Schools have an infuriating habit of glazing over inconvenient stories. I live in a liberal part of Washington state and they routinely ignore the fact that natives owned slaves becsuse that muddies the waters and broke the clean good vs evil & white vs non white version of slavery, they ignored mistreatment of Chinese and other workers in cities like Seattle since Seattle is supposed to be a liberal mecca, and they largely ignored previous exploration of the pacific northwest before Lewis and Clark since that ruins the myth that Lewis and Clark more or less discovered our state.
I have been studying this period and find Simon’s 3 videos on this period are great! Very well researched, with great detail. Thank you Simon. And you are right, the “ballsing up” of the British went a long way toward assuring Irish independence.
Thank you for covering this entire situation in such depth, it’s hard to find anyone that will.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching.
Not that hard
ruclips.net/video/q4h8XTRj6Oc/видео.html
It's all wrong
@@warographics643wasn’t a civil war, English and Irish aren’t fellow country men. The Irish are citizens of their country the English are commoners.
@@warographics643also more ppl in Liverpool consider themselves Irish than all the ppl in the north of Ireland that consider themselves British. And the losers now think they can write the history. Only ppl the Irish killed were English and we are proud of it. U ppl murdered and raped the 3rd world
I think Collins was right, it was the best we'd have gotten, De Valera was too scared to go over and negotiate himself.
Thanks Simon.
Great documentary. At this very time, I am writing my master's thesis in Ireland on the assassination of Michael Collins, comparing the Irish War of Independence and the Civil War with the Yugoslav War of Independence between 1941-45. Really looking forward to the Northern Ireland Troubles episode.
I’d like to read that.
Great video, this series was awesome to see its not often we get content on our country, looking forward to seeing you cover the troubles no doubt
Good coverage. The problem with us Irish is that we don't know what we want...but we're always ready to fight for it.
That's a statement just crying out for correction. As with every country there are a myriad of beliefs on every subject. Your comment is just feeding into stereotypes and is in itself a trite cliche.
A more American statement has never been uttered... By an Irishman.
You know what you want, what the good men and women of Ireland initially fought for. Quit that defeatist mentality.
We don't know what we want? It's very clear what we wanted: a united and independent Ireland. What are you referring to exactly?
Speak for yourself, an United Ireland is what we want and what we will get, soon.
My great grandfather was anti treaty In this war, only 19. 17 when he fought the Brits. He was one of the only survivors of the column he was in in Limerick
This guy is by far the best narrator on the internet .
Great voice great pace clear and concise
Amazing
You are a fabulous presenter, orator, narrator. Great series this has been. I’ve found it fascinating.
I typed this one into the search with what I assumed was a sense of false hope that he would have covered this topic. I love this mans approach to covering war , whether it be modern news updates or stories from times passed the way he speaks on solely the facts , respects the history and culture of the nations he's discussing when he can and entirely avoids it when the situation calls for silence on that front , as well as how well spoken , concise and articulate his descriptions are. truly in my opinion a master of the craft of narration and informing and the best channel of this genre on this platform currently in my opinion , so I'm sure you can understand why I was so pleased to see him cover the topic of my homelands worst divide until that point and since then ( opting to not draw a comparison to the division of the troubles as that was a far different conflict in a number of reasons predominantly being the scale , context , and its sectarian nature )
As a great grandson of Irish immigrants, I’m very pleased with learning about all the 20th century history I didn’t know was in my blood. Thank you, Simon. Looking forward to your video on The Troubles.
Simon will you please do a Biographical on Michael Collins. That would be great. Thank You Team Whistler. Love all your channels. Keep up the great work.
The movie by the same name focused on the make believe love story instead of what was actually going on.
There is another lesser known Micheal Collins movie which stars Brendan Gleeson as Collins... Some what ironic as he played the 2nd in command to Collins in the Liam Neeson movie and Gleeson actually does look a LOT more like Collins in his movie than leeson did.
@@Kickback-dm7zt do you know the name of said movie I would really like to check that out. The best actor in the movie was... Dammit I can remember his name but he played Hans in Die Hard he looked just like the historical figure he was portraying
@@OverTheTop85 Alan Rickman was the actor .
@@OverTheTop85 The film is "The Treaty". The best of all the films about the Irish War of Independence is "The Wind that Shakes the Barley".
@@stephendeane7509 thank you sir I will be checking both of those out. I enjoy history more than Anything. It's my lifeblood
Excellent video! Very interesting and thorough. I'm looking forward to you doing The Troubles.. I think they deserve their own series. Great job Simon and team 👏 💯 😊
Credit to you lads from an Irishman these videos you've done on Irish history have been balanced, knowledgeable and really interesting. As someone from the north I would be very interested to see you do a video on the troubles
Thanks for doing this series on the history of Irish independence to Simon and all at warographics. As an Irishman and history nerd this is a great account of the events. Only minor criticism is you could have done with a pronunciation guide like on the casual criminalist. Big fan of many of your shows thanks for all the entertainment.
Simon Whistler has given up on correct pronunciation. It's what he's been doing from a few years ago when he had four, maybe five, channels .
I watched this video thinking he would cripple pronunciation of the Irish words and of course he did. I gave him one last chance to redeem himself and he bollixed it.
I’m gonna be real. You are the most underrated RUclips channel I’ve ever watched. The fact you don’t have over a million subscribers is actually crazy to me. Keep up the quality videos and incredible content. Here is one more sub to get you to that goal! Just wow!
Rest in peace to those that passed away.
You’re correct that Rocky won the moral victory, but he did NOT get the technical win. He lost the fight. That’s why Apollo immediately tells him there won’t be a rematch. Rocky says he doesn’t want one; he went the distance. He got his moral victory.
If you're a studying Ireland history listen to this. Excellent.
As I said in your previous vids on Ireland, I really hope you continue to modern times.. Great wee series and truth without politics, prejudice or propaganda.
Love that you're teaching people about early 20th century Irish Politics. If I have a peeve about your video is the mispronounciation of certain Irish names and words.
My great grandfather was a member of a flying column in North Cork during the civil war however he quit after pro treaty forces crack down hard after Collins' assassination. He'd simply buried his rifle and gun in a field and went home.
Top quality Simon, I loved all three episodes.
Brilliant video. In my opinion I think The Troubles mini deserve a series of its own.
Sadly another subject that isn't (or wasn't when I was in High School 1989-93) taught or even mentioned...
But now Mr. Whistler is my History/Social Studies Instructor!
I am blessed to be able to absorb this information.
Well, I'm not going to defend the US education system because its pretty shocking by all accounts, but in this case to be fair, why would the Irish war of independence be covered in US schools? I mean the US war of independence isn't exactly covered in our schools, why would it be?
Very good but completely disregard his pronunciation of Irish name and place names.
Studied this period for many years now and wouldn't hestitate to say I'm highly impressed by the context, accuracy and balance offered in this analysis; possibly the single best summary video I've seen on the topic.
This also gives me a much greater level of confidence in trusting the analysis offered in topics where I have limited knowledge.
Excellent, Highly recommend.
Warographics can you make a video series on the Philippine fight for independence on Spain, America and Japan.
That would be interesting. Filopino-American war. Forgotten to time. Much like the Puerto Rican Rebellion of 1950.
correction, the America never fought a war against the Philippines. America just put down a rebellion in their colony of the Philippines.
@@theawesomeman9821 recorrection America fought a war in the Philippines before they conquered and made it a colony.
@@sinonkryze3638 I'm just saying what historians said went down.
Very good analysis of the Irish civil war, well done Simon.
Need to work on pronunciation of Irish names and places but still love your videos, particularly on Ireland. One of the best videos on this subject I’ve found, and the best not done by an Irish person I’ve found, love to see you do one on the various organisations/army’s that were involved and how they evolved from war of independence to civil war to troubles ( Irish army, police, ric, ruc, ira, uda, blue shirts, Garda, etc)
There is definitely room for improvement in that area, maybe have a person of whichever nation he is covering (obviously Irish this case) go through the places and people's names.
It would just lift the production to yet another level.
This is not his first instance of mispronouncing Irish words
Thanks
Haha I had to laugh at the way you pronounced some of their names and locations. Very good documentary and would love to see Michael Collins covered as it's coming up to the 100th anniversary of his death.
Mick Colllins gave Ireland independance for sure. Not only did he mastermind the campaighn however nasty.
He knew when to talk,having made his point. In short,he knew what made us tick.
A well put together series Simon. Well researced and presented. it is nice to an Engilshman understand for a change
I LOVE the earnestness expressed here! The heartfelt meaning comes across in the view so well! It IS depraved whenever people take up War to such an extent that “the cause” is lost in the joy (?) of fighting. And hosting civil war in the middle of two so-called World Wars would demoralize, traumatize & leave any nation or segment of one caught in the crossfires irreparably cynical, hardened, bitter & logically-so.
YET the Irish people are nearly always, in the context of the USA-concept, the MOST willing, most spirited, & most generously-inclined to speak up, speak out, & put a stop to all nonsense (for the longest duration) MORE than ANY grouping of White people yet landed in The Americas region. More heart, we call it, generally-speaking. THANKS so much for everything you’ve shared yourself! I found the vlog informed-yet-glib personally, too.☘️ I also found that in an obvious thrust to appeal to a male demograph, (no pun intended) typically, women’s & families’ stories weren’t given honorable mention whatsoever. What about the Irish married to Brits? What about schools & who taught there after these skirmishes? How were children growing up in occupied territories impacted psychologically? How many yearn to live abroad & feel a LOT less “connected” to either side, one way or the other? Did ANY government DO anything especially to restore these families, outside veterans’ burials?? ALL of those matters deserved some explanation in the context of War, imo, as an Area of Activity taken up entirely too often, said to “resolve” matters. Or out of sheer greed. Or the sheer depravity for “conquest,” & exerting power. Power ungrounded in anything logical, more often than not. Be Blessed. Many thinks. 💚🌱
Really enjoying your Irish series Simon, hopefully you could do another wargraphics or a biographics episode on some other Irish figures like Theobold Wolfetone and the United Irishman
+1 for a few Biographics episodes on De 'Valera, Collins etc.
Would love that but I hope they don’t stop here and go onto the troubles
@@ianmoore3470 as an ex defences forces member (62nd Res MP Coy) I love videos on the military history of my country.... Please continue with videos like this. 🙏🙏🙏🙏👍👍👍👍
@Val O'Connell that’s a fair point actually I didn’t consider it, it’s gotten a lot more contentious lately so I can definitely see the merits of that
Very good recount, Simon. Looking forward to your episode on the Troubles.
Would love an episode on The Troubles to round out the modern conflicts of Ireland. There are so many more that came before them though and I hope Simon will cover them eventually.
and to Brexit and the hard border returning
“Unwelcome, like a bear trap in a soufflé”. Who wrote this? I love it!
Truly tragic history. I am an Australian grandchild of someone who fought for the Free State Army, but was also fighting his brother in the IRA. He left Ireland for Australia after seeing his brother get executed by a firing squad. Thanks for the series, Simon. Very well done.
How that snake devalera became president is something I will never understand.
Won’t be long now before Ireland is United,it will happen.
18:10 the way he pronounces Youghal made me laugh, it's pronounced more like y'all. Also Fianna Fail is pronounced like Fee-ana Fall
Fee-anna Foyle, in my Munster accent.
And so completes the trilogy
We still have the prequels to look forward to
This series is super interesting, I gotta get to the end. Great research and compassionate perspective.
I watched a two part video on another channel about “The Troubles” and I learned a lot about that horrific part of Irish history. I was only a kid in the 80s and heard on the news often about either an IRA bombing in London, or an incident in Northern Ireland. In my youthful ignorance I thought England and Ireland were in an all out war.
Very accurate and no biased views well done and thanks for the content 👏
i know my history but I will say that again from you Simon was the most heart breaking way to hear it
Simon!!!
We really need a sequel!!
Where is the video for The Troubles?
The Siege of Jadoville, could this be the next video in one of your channels? How a Company of Irish soldiers held against over 500 men. The treatment of the Irish soldiers by their own government when they came home.
*3000 men not 500
I'd watch it
@@theawesomeman9821 Already made.
Thinking this might need that Part IV to truly finish it off.
I need a simon blooper reel or something because this guy has 9 channels always posting. His back log is either insane and got himself covered or this guy is nonstop working
Well he's hired to commentate. But insanely talented at that! His delivery is unmatched
Hey Simon, I would LOVE to see the Opium wars on this channel If you're up for it.
I know it revolves more around trade but there's some fascinating twists I think you'd cover really well
Thanks for all your channels by the way, huge fan
Great work Simon. Loves the series.
Michael Collins, the man that brought the British Empire to its knees. The man who revolutionised guerrilla warfare. The man voted 2nd in the British Armies greatest opposition Generals list. One of the greatest military leaders of all time, to defeat the largest and most powerful enpire the world has ever known with so few resources is a feat Alexander and Caesar would have be awe struck by. Sadly murdered long before his time.
Utter nonsense.
@@David-cb1ct First of all, he didn't defeat the British empire. British public opinion forced the British government to call a ceasefire. If Collins was the glorious victor you describe then how was Lloyd-George able to bully him into signing the Anglo-Irish treaty under threat of all out war? Collins himself said it was tantamount to signing his own death warrant which meant he was more afraid of the British taking the gloves off than he was of being killed by his own people.
Also, why would a victorious leader be taking orders from Winston Churchill? After all, he did send Collins a telegram telling him to get the anti treaty IRA out of the Four Courts or he would come over and do it for him. Collins duly complied because he knew Churchill had 100000 troops on stand by to reoccupy the whole of Ireland if necessary.
All Collins achieved is what had been offered to Ireland prior to WWI, home rule. Nothing else.
Sorry David but he didn't defeat anyone...his picture hung in my Nans front room. As in most successful partisan campaigns, his actions made continued war unpalatable for the British govt of the day, at huge cost. Short of marching into someone's burning capital and wiping the floor with their armies, real defeat is rare. Asymmetrical resolution, favouring the side with the stronger hand is the norm, in terms of historical precedent.
Think you find that the Boers revolutionised guerrilla warfare.
@@David-cb1ct on noticing your previous posts to ppl stating glaring errors in your assessment and to answer your first rude assumption - unlike yourself I am v educated and wasn’t being pedantic at all, stating fact. I am well versed in all military history, so pls come back to me when you have formed your own opinion and not ripped it from Wikipedia.
Fascinating and little known chapter in European history!
My little connection - in 1960 as a teenager in Poland I collected autographs of foreign leaders. At the time it was simple - just write a letter in broken English and a month later a response would. Among many I received back, one was from President de Valera. Of course, I had no idea who he was forty years prior.
WoW! He was only recently President. How were you allowed to do that in 1960?
@@johnnotrealname8168 He was the President from 1959 - 73. Is this recent?
@karolw.5208 "He was only recently President." Check my tense.
De Velara caused the Civil war and ended up leading the "Free State" until Fianna Gael declared a republic in 1949, he wasn't a fool but a calculating politician. The death of Michael Collins removed any chance of a civilised war. The hard liners on both sides got to work.
@warographics, I am looking forward to seeing a series on the troubles. I do hope we can see it soon.
Very detailed telling of Irish Civil War that no one really talks about
Man, how good was this video?
Finally, it’s the video I’ve longed for.
Movie: "The Wind That Shakes The Barley" Greetings Robert from Bavaria.
Excellent film portrayal of the times
I actually was looking for such a video for a few months now
Yes please do one on the troubles
Had a good laugh at the woeful pronunciations ahahaha. Great gid tho
Wow... fantastic job. My two grandfathers never spoke to each other. They fought on opposite sides of this civil war. The bitterness this war had on Irish people has taken generations to clear. It still can be raked up in times of anger to this day. Thank you, Simon, for covering this.
I thought most of the country was pro-treaty anyway.
@freebeerfordworkers The Irish Republican Brotherhood indeed rarely represented the majority of Irishmen.
12:18 Would be better to use a contemporary photo of Churchill instead of the WW2 era one.
The remarkable thing was De Valera causing the fracture with his stubborn fixation on full immediate independence, but in less than two decades becoming Prime Minister, and in less than thirty years seeing a peaceful transition to a republic.
But in the meantime his stubborn refusal to bend would cost hundreds of lives.
I absolutely detest Dev, but you need to realise that the attitude you are describing wasn't just one that Dev had, there were many in Ireland who wanted that and who saw any concessions given to the British (one of the most important ones being the oath of allegiance to the King) as being a slight on all those who had been killed, there was an absolute hatred for the British, one which survives to this day among many anti-treaty side and supporters who are still alive today. When I was in school here in Ireland (over 20 years ago) I had to volunteer for a week in an old folks home as part of my secondary school curriculum, there was a woman in there whose brother (or brothers I can't remember) were murdered by the British, when she heard the English accent of the girl who was volunteering also she point blank refused to speak to her or even interact with her in any way, because she was English.
Murdered by the British ? as opposed to being executed (murdered) by The IRA terrible. @@eoincaomhanach1983
Excellent video Simon
The biggest battle of the Irish Civil War: Battle of Kilmallock… my small town was the one place the free state forces never got through
Great Videos about the Topic, but one is obviously missing, when comes the video about the Troubles to finish the topic? Would love to learn more about that too
This Is the tragedy of civil war. My grand captured by the B&Ts and was due an execution. He supported Dev in subsequent civil war but refused to fight his friend who saved him and moved to the USA due to this. He died by a car running him over 5 days later
Fun fact that 1 third of ulster is actually in the Republic.. The counties of Cavan, Monaghan and Donegal are in the province of ulster but also in the Republic.
I feel like the events of the Irish Civil War were partly fueled by the ego of Eamon Devalera. In one of his speeches to whip up discontent with the Anglo-Irish Treaty, he openly talked about Civil War, calling on supporters:
"I say, when you're in a good fighting position, then fight on!"
In addition, his speech in Munster destabilised thing further:
"They would have to wade through Irish blood, through the blood of the soldiers of the Irish government and through perhaps, the blood of some of the members of the government in order to get Irish freedom!"
Given how little influence he had by the time of the Civil War effectively at an end, I'm surprised his speech had any influence:
"Further struggle on your part, would now be in vain, to continue the struggle in arms is unwise in the national interest. Military victory must be allowed to rest, for the moment, with those who have destroyed the Republic,"
All of the bloodshed and bitterness from 1922-23 could have been avoided if he had engaged in what Collins had advocatedfrom the start, after signing the Anglo-Irish Treaty, to gradually dismantle the Free State from within
Its a load of myth Collins had it right.The IRA had next to no munitions. The Brits had so many they were throwing them in the sea and did so for the next twenty years. 'British Empire on its Knees' - Yeah Right, Even The Germans did not manage that and they werre a worthy enemy.
"About as appealing as a dirty weekend with Nigel Farage..." The threat of having that would sure enough make me want to take up arms...
Thanks, team. I hope that you have educated others to the ultimate futility of such struggles. I kinda doubtit, though. We're such small - brains. Can't fight our way out of a paper bag, it seems.
Eamon de valera the man who signed the book of condolences for Adolf Hitler's death
I could almost SWEAR at 5:58, Frank X. Flood is in the rear standing 4th from the left in that still photo of a regiment! Can’t make out ranks or anyone else “familiar,” but weren’t he & Patrick Doyle of the same unit?
Great job guys thank you so much
would be interesting to see the 1798 rebellion covered too.
The 'Year of The French,' their officers got entertained in Dublin and Sent Home.
The Rebels Got Executed.
The killing of Collins also robbed the free state forces of its first General officer commanding and chief of staff.
You all talk as if Richard Mulcahy never existed. Collins wasn't the only one.
Just letting you know,dont know if you know this,but its fact.Michael Collins was shot dead by an ex British army sniper ,ex RIC man who defected to the IRA,strange world.
other than his pronunciation of a few places one being my home town, I enjoyed this
Good video 👍
A video on the war of 1812 would be nice
Good video but probably could have capped off the series by explaining that under DeValaras leadership, the treaty was dismantled and Ireland did eventually become a republic in 1937. A pretty key detail. Also adds to the hero or villain debate over Dev.
I never really heard about this part of history (mainly because I'm American and only have like 2% Irish in my family.) But this series made me interested in Irish history.
Thank you for covering The Civil War, the War best forgotten, it did way more damage than The Tan War did, starting out as a family row that turned into a political disaster for all. Both sides were correct but only one could win. The Treaty was Ireland's Brexit it was not ovenready, political careers crashed people Ireland could have done with died in an orgy of bloodletting, one issue that caused the problems were the 81 executions many were summary some retaliation, bitterness for years.
Would like more videos on other wars fought by the British narrorated by Sir Simon Whitsle 😊
I suggest the following:
Opium Wars
Boer Wars
Zulu Wars
and the First Anglo-Burman war.
What a war lover ! HoHo,some people won't like you. They don't like the Brits.
The saddest moment in Irish history
Excellent video
@11:36 Henry Wilson looks like Sloth from The Goonies if you take away the mustache.
Irish Pro Treaty side where Irish heroes and aptriots the Anti treaty IRA where villians like the British Government and Ulster Unionists
For a limey Simon does a good job on these videos.
Great video. You might wanna look up how to pronounce those Gaelic terms and names though, Cathal for example really isn't pronounce as you'd think it would be xD
You'd need a Brit for that,maybe not a second or third generation Irishman who has become one.
@@philiprufus4427 erm what?
Éamon de Velera was born George de Velero in New York City, and his father was Cuban
His father was a Portuguese Jew.
I think it'd be great if Simon could do a Biographics video on Eamon Devalera. Give an insight into the events of his life that (rightly or wrongly) shaped his thinking.
In my opinion, his best moment was when he gave a speech, days after VE Day when Winston Churchill (in his victory speech) bitterly attacked Devalera and Ireland for declaring itself neutral in WW2. In it, Devalera mentioned the following:
"Mr Churchill makes it clear, that in certain circumstances, he would have violated our neutrality and would likely justify his actions through 'Britain's necessity'. Surely Mr Churchill must see, that like minded justification were used to justify similar acts of aggression elsewhere, and no small nation adjoining a great power could ever hope to be permitted go its own way in peace.
"Mr Churchill is proud of Britain's stand alone, after France had fallen and before America entered the war. Could he not find it in his heart, the generosity to acknowledge, that there's a small nation that stood alone, not for one year or two, but for 700 years against aggression?"
It was a great speech. Dev was a very interesting man.
We were never thought about the civil war in any depth in school. Those who xommited atrocities have not even faced justice. Much like what has happened in Spain with their recovery from their civil war and Franco's regime.
Those who committed the atrocities were either on the government side then and/or dead now. Similar to Spain.
I didn’t know there were two other videos on this. Yay.
Can’t wait to hear you go through The Troubles.
Small correction: Rocky lost the match in Part I, but had the moral victory of going the distance against Apollo
Collins was a hero to most. Even to those like me who probably disagreed with his position post war of independence. But he died in uniform in a gunfight during a civil war. A sad day indeed. It took us years to recover from Britain's rule and helped by participating in the biggest trading block , the EU, and the peace dividend from the Good Friday Agreement, both are under threat from anti democratic unionist politicians. When the island was split over 80% of the islands production was in N Ireland. Now its mid teens with the rest of Ireland being one of the wealthiest places in the world and Britain looking for any excuse to get rid of N Ireland from their union (imo)