Dave Mustaine’s influence on Metallica is one of the most debated topics in metal history-this breakdown hoperfully finally separates some of the myth from the reality. 🤘 What do you think-is Mustaine Metallica’s unsung hero or just part of the story?
Something I don't agree with. While most of Horsemen was Mustaine, it seems that the sweet home alabama section, while written by Mustaine, was requested by Lars (so the idea to have a slow section in the song was not his). Vision matters. And, the debate becomes similar to director vs actor. Yes, the actor carries out the vision, but without the vision, there is nothing. On top of that, what I've seen is that the 1st breakdown before alabama was Metallica. Overall, Mustaine had an influence on them. IMO, Horseman is by far the best track on KEA. But, his influence is WAY overstated by Mustaine followers, and it comes across as very jealous and petty. Metallica's greatest accomplishments, had nothing to do with Mustaine, outside of 1 or 2 riffs on Lightning, and of course, Horsemen. Megadeth is a very good band. Some great heavy metal songs, that should be enough for Mustaine followers to hold onto.
There's no denying he played a role, but he's certainly not the only one. Plus he's credited on several songs, given a special thank you on the first album and has been getting royalties. Some forget that there were others who wrote music too.
While people say Mustaine is the one who "wrote 'em all", people always overlook his replacement 's contribution. Apart from iconic solos, there would be no Enter Sandman, "die" chant riff from Creeping Death, no bridge in Battery, no "come crawling faster" part of MoP and many more without Kirk Hammett.
@masikorski6411 Also the main riff in Trapped Under Ice and fast transition riff between the chorus/verses in Disposable Heroes are Hammett's contributions as well.
Metallica and Megadeth are the Yin-Yang of Heavy Metal. Metallica is often slower than Megadeth, but Megadeth is never heavier than Metallica. Lyrically, Hetfield is way more of a poet that expresses his own thoughts and emotions, while Mustaine is more of a screenwriter. His lyrics are less personal, and more about creating a scene for the audience. Metallica riffs are generally easier than Megadeth riffs, but are generally more memorable. Megadeth guitar solos are much more advanced than Metallica's, but Metallica solos are some of the most iconic solos ever recorded. When it comes to playing live, Megadeth rarely change their setlist and are extremely consistent.... Metallica are a bit inconsistent, but never play the same set twice in a row. All of these differences are the results of very different personality types, which is why they couldn't work together.
Those are some good points! I think more people need to take that into account as well, they arent the same bands because they are different people with different ideals.
You also forgot that Metallica is much more musical, especially in their 2,3, 4 album compared to Megadeth. So many classical composers cover their music for a reason.
the thing people dont realize is that every interviewer loves to ask mustaine about metallica so they can make head lines and get clicks so it makes it look like dave always talks ab out them but in reality no one ever stops ask i ng him ab out it
I think he should put a clause in that they aren't allowed to ask him because not only is it super disrespectful to him but it ends up making him look bad to audiences like he can't stop talking about them, he has a 40 year career there's no need to ask him anything to do with Metallica
for the solos on kea, the producer agreed that Kirk would play the first 4 bars to each solo exactly the same that dave played, and the rest of the solo had to be similar but he could put his own twist on it.
I think they already had a general direction of where to go. Mustaine, Hetfield and Ulrich bonded over their admiration for NWOBHM and punk bands. IMO Cliff influenced Metallica more than Dave.
You'd think Mustaine would be content with his own success, with Megadeth, instead of choosing to continue to live within Metallica's shadow. But I guess its an easy way to get attention to break out the old, "hey, did I ever tell you about that time I was in Metallica for all but five minutes?" every now and then. Because really lets look at Mustaine's history with Metallica Was in the band for about two years Spends the next forty plus years talking about the two years he was in the band I still think though Justice and Rust are the Twin Peaks of Thrash.
Thats the thing that kept Megadeth from the truly world Success. This and never feeling like a family. There were so many line ups and different musicians that it always felt like Dave's personal project
@@gansior4744 yea, the only other guy who springs to mind - for me at least - who could give Megadave a run for his money, for having a revolving door of line up changes, is Jon Schaffer (Iced Earth)
Weird how the Megadave cult are the only ones with this problem, meanwhile he goes through musicians like underwear and just keeps right on playing their music.
Yea people forget Metallica had their base sound before Dave joined the band and in fact it was Dave who was in a band playing Kiss covers and more what he called 'party rock' before he met Metallica. Also Megadeth were never intended to be thrash until he saw Metallicas early success so there's a huge argument to be made on the effect James and Lars had on Daves writing. But they all helped shape each other
That's false. The very bandname Megadeth was supposed to be a songtitle, but they decided to go with Megadeth as the bandname and named the song "Set The World Afire". Now try your argument about Megadeth not intended to be thrash again my sweet uneducated summerchild. You're just making things up as you go lmao 😂
@@MDoom-McDonought So your proof that Megadeth was always thrash is because they named the band Megadeth? 😅 Dave Ellefson himself has said Megadeth were NOT a thrash band and there songs were mid paced NWOBHM songs to even Sabbath slow songs until Dave Mustaine got a letter hoping his new band would be faster than Metallica so they sped all their songs up and made them more thrashy.
Not compared to Metallica's 2, 3, and 4 album's......... Much more musical. You see cliffs Burton's music theory educational influence in those records. .......
@MechanixV I kind of understand, but I separate myself from the singing and even some of the leads... I do agree Hanger 18 kinda goes too far... but the riffs on Rust are next level. The song structures... 🤘 and Dave and Marty are no Cacophony... but they just nailed it... I'm rambling...
Great video, man ! It truly is a case of the unstoppable force and the immovable object. Dave being unstoppable and Metallica being immovable. You really can't have one without the other. I love them both. Personally, I prefer Megadeth. Simply by sheer numbers, there are more albums and songs that I like than Metallica. But Metallica came first into my life, and made me more than a metal head. They made me a thrasher. It didn't take long for me to learn who their original lead guitarist was, and what he went on to create. I feel a certain connection to Mustaine in the sense that he has that lone wolf quality. Comes with its pros and cons, like all things. I also believe he's a better guitarist in technical terms. All in all everyone is entitled to their opinion and preference. I am glad to live in a world with such amazing bands, although I never stop wondering what a Metallica with Dave staying a member would have sounded like. Fucking incredible, for sure.
Comparisons I Found That Never Get Mentioned! 01.Motorbreath & FFF (Beginning) 02.The Call Of Ktulu & When (Song Is A Mix Of Call Of Ktulu & Am I Evil Basically) Anyway thanks for the video!
This is a fair assessment. I remember all this music coming out starting in 1983 but wondered who this Mustain guy was listed in the writing credits of Kill em all. I completely missed MegaDaves first record but was early into Peace Sells. Its a totally fascinating piece of metal history and personally I'm glad we got both groups because as a fan it all just added to my library of great metal music. Yeah they used Daves music but they also gave him credit and he got paid big time $$ its a win win
Great video, Brian! Very informative and I agree with everything you said. People mostly are just trying to be cool when they slight Metallica by saying Dave wrote everything, or that the band was better when he was in the band. I love Dave and am a huge megadeth fan. But Dave and Metallica were always better off going their separate ways. Not many could have done what Dave has done, coming back from a hit like that, and forming the 2nd biggest thrash band ever. Dave deserves his praise, but he doesn't deserve praise for what Metallica have done on their own, without him
At the end of the day, I take EVERYTHING Dave claims as a grain of salt. He says he wrote the additional riffs for The Four Horsemen BUT I don't buy it. He also claims that he wrote almost riff on the song Ride the Lightning. If Dave remained in the band, I guarantee the band would have imploded. He probably would have got them hooked on heavier drugs. He also would have pushed for more control.
Either the band would've imploded or Dave would've been kicked by the time recording sessions for MoP would happen. Either way, Hammett would most likely be committed to Exodus by this point too, so that's off the table. Would be an interesting discussion on who would've been the replacement guitarist for Metallica in this scenario.
This was such a great video. Hopefully it will reach more viewers. I agree with Dave been fundamental in the very early days of Metallica, but his contributions get over exagerated. He was credited for what he did for. I dn´t necessarly agree on him composing the two other parts of horsemen, it was Cliff who came with "Sweet home alabama" rip off, Mustaine jammed with him though. And the bridge, he definetly wrotte the intro to that, but the rest is Hetfield´s far as my understanding goes. Also, been such a good riff Mustaine would later used it. And he definetly didn´t wrotte a thing on Lepper Messiah. However, Mustaine unadvertedly inspired part of a Metallica song in the black album (drum roll please): Enter Sandman. What happend was in 82´ they came together with an idea of using a prayer into a song, said prayer was "now i lay me down to sleep". Now, who came with the idea and who with the prayer is still for debate, but was a Dave-James thing (My guess is James came with the idea, Mustaine with the prayer). Coincidentially both bands incorporated this idea almost at the same time, Dave with Megadeth in "Go to hell" and James for Metallica in "Enter Sandman" wich ignited an infurating fight by Dave claiming James riped him off. Now the movie in wich Dave´s song features was premiered in july of 91´, but he did played that song about May that year. However, gor the time go to hell was premiered the Black Album was already recorded and just geting the last touches, in fact, Metallica´s demo predates incorporing the prayer before Megadeth. Crazy coincidence.
6:50 i dont know if im right either but i heard that kirk had a few weeks to learn the solo's and thats why they are a little diffrent but they are 'inspired' from dave's solo's. again i dont know if that is true but thats just what i heard. I still like the way kirk played them but dave's versions on the demo's (altough a little sloppy but they are demo's) are better imo. Nice video!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! You’re right that there’s a lot of discussion around how Kirk approached the solos after joining Metallica. He had limited time to learn and adapt them, which might explain some of the differences. It’s interesting to compare his versions with Dave’s on the demos, and I can see why you might prefer Dave’s style. Both have their own unique flair, and it’s always fascinating to hear how these iconic solos evolved. Glad you enjoyed the video!
He had in all fairness a couple of days. Kill em all was recorded in New York in meer 15 days. Kirk was called by the band maybe a day before firing Mustaine, considering how quick the album got recorded and how much time he should put into making the solos feel and sound right he maybe had the first week of that, since solos are the last thing to be added i mean. I do recall reading he learned a lot of stuff on the flight to New York and probably had to double time the day to catch up.
While I understand not everyone may see Metallica as the greatest, their impact on the metal genre is undeniable. With their numerous accolades and influential songwriting, they’ve set a high bar. It’s all subjective, of course, and everyone has their preferences, but their achievements and popularity speak volumes about their legacy.
That spider chord riff in RTL was simplified by Metallica, though. They actually don’t play it like you did. He ended up using something similar, but with the spider chords, in Wake Up Dead. Also, Hangar 18 has some of the exact chords as Call of Ktulu.
Agree with this video, and it's how I have always seen it. His name appears on the credits. Even Kirk said that he purposely kept the intros to the solos and a few of the licks to keep the fans happy at the shows but he always did his own thing in between. Dave didn't want to give royalties to Chris Poland for his Rust In Peace solos but wants royalties for solos he didnt even perform lol I am a bigger Megadeth fan than Metallica. It is a shame he had to keep whining about Metallica and this brief part of history he was involved in. His music far surpassed anything they did in terms of technicality and variety. Lastly, I disagree with the sentiment that if you quit/leave/get fired from a band you get to take all your contributions with you. They were developed with the band/for the band and that's where it should stay.
I wish I had come across this video sooner so I could really be part of the conversation. No one is going to see this comment. lol Anyway, I think you are totally correct about about Dave's contribution. One thing I have wondered about, and there's no way to prove this because it is intangible, is how much influence Dave might have had on Metallica's early burgeoning hype because of the fierce raw fury of his playing and possible stage presence (and you know he couldn't keep his mouth shut). I'm not saying it was all encompassing or anything, and I'm not taking away Lars' business savvy. I just wonder though if Dave contributed to them getting offered a record contract as soon as they did. I'd love to hear from people who were at those early shows.
So many people in these comments confuse his riff contribution for how much he influenced their fame and possibly how the band viewed songwriting. Just because he didnt contribute a lot of music doesnt mean he didnt have an affect on Metallica and how they operate or where they got to.
İm a metallica fan since my childhood and i have no bad feelings on dave. İ think he is a very good guitarist but the reason that im not listening megadeth is about daves voice
Mustaine wrote four songs in Kill 'em All, The Four Horsemen, Metal Militia, Phantom Lord, and Jump In The Fire. These tracks were weak, except for Horsemen. He also wrote one spider chord riff in Ride the Lightning (song) and the intro in Call of Ktulu and both of them are not even the best part of the song. He even claimed that one riff in Leper Messiah, which I don't believe, his riff tape, and the riff in Lepper Messiah sounded so different. Most people are over exaggerating Dave's work in Metallica when, in reality, it wasn't really that big, but it definitely helped Metallica in their early days, and I could say that Ride the Lightning to Black Album is a legendary run.
@deusgr Only elitists think like that, Metallica fell apart after Black Album, I'll even go as far as saying they fell off after Load with the exception of Death Magnetic. And yes those 3 songs are hella weak, Kill em All as an Album is weak, it's overrated.
@ justice sounds terrible and is boring, every song is the same for most of the record, black album is total dogshit, everything else is also trash other than st anger which was alright
@@BrianWGuitar I'm talking about fans in general. It depends on how long you are a fan of those bands, of course. I'm 41 years old, fan since I was 12.
Dave wrote all the solos pretty much for the whole album... also, Dave is Bob Rock's real father, and he wrote the Black Album back before Kill em All was made... prove me wrong
I dont see his style in anything after RTL. Dave had created some masterpieces but mostly I dont enjoy Megadeth. Usually its overcomplicated for no reason to be honest and Generally Lyrics are corny and weak. Rust in Peace tho is top creation of Metal
Megadave denier. My answers are 1. He didn't do it. 2. He deserved to get fired for doing it. Why say this? Because it's hilarious watching boomers huff copium trying to understand my nonsence.
He had No Influence at all, he co wrote solo jump in the fire solo Co wrote solo metal militia Phantom lord James wrote but gave the solo to dave The 4 horsemen he and James wrote 50/50 dave Even said that on a RUclips video ( but everyone knows Lars aranged the songs) He co wrote 10 sec on the interlude from the song ride the lightning He co wrote 11 sec of the song the call of ktulu both these songs CLIFF rewrote Dave co wrote 4 min and got a lot of royalties.
The fact that there is nearly 40 years of HEAVY DISPUTE regarding this very topic VALIDATES THIS VERY TOPIC. There is no doubt that Both Dave and Cliff INFLUENCED THE BAND IN A HUGE WAY. And the fact that Megadeth is a superior band indicates that Dave taught James. Dave was the engine and James was the caboose. Once James learned enough to become the engine; then Dave was kicked to the curb.
But learning from your peers and taking someones music are completely different things. Im saying that Dave did not write that much of Metallica's music, not that the band didnt learn something from him. They probably learned a lot from him as does anyone who works with other musicians.
honestly, they got way better without him. Most of their albums are superior to kill and ride. Sure, he wrote Ktulu and Horsemen, those are great. But stuff like Jump In The Fire...among Metallica's weakest songs. I never liked him as a riff writer.
Dave Untamed Mustang is as FOS now as he was 40 years ago . He didn't shape the Metallica Sound or Music what so ever . James and Lars had some Cover songs of Other bands and Some Original Songs already composed in 1981 before Dave ever showed uo in this band . Dave Claims James was Just a Singer when Dave showed up , which is nonsense . So James became a Down Picking Guitar Playing Singing Metal Maniac Genius when Dave showed up in 1981 ? Dave's demise in Metallica is when he almost killed the entire band in Laramie , Wyoming when He fell asleep at the wheel driving the U Haul into a ditch with James Truck Attached to it in a Snow Storm Blizzard in March 1983 on their way to Rochester , NY . This is why they threw Dave in the back of the U Haul the Rest of the way there . This is why James refers to Dave was on his way to killing the entire Metallica band somehow was said in the VH1 Megadeth Behind The Music . James and Lars had to Re-Write the lyrics for The Four Horseman and Jump In The Fire . They were too 80s Hair Sex Metal in their original versions . Phantom Lord and Metal Militia Were James and Dave written 50/50 . Call Of Ktulu Intro is Dave's . Dave Claims a Riff in Lepar Messiah is his . What's Ironic is Dave gets Royalties for The Four Horsemen and Mechanix . Highly unusual . Metallica couldn't sue Dave for Copyright infringement because Dave was the Primary Composer for both compositions .
😂 you clearly dont watch my content because 50% of it is useless debates on these goofy topics that dont matter. Not everything needs to be a serious debate
you didnt really separate myth from reality, you just added your opinion. what you missed to mention i think is the fact Jaymz didnt even play guitar when Dave joined. so Daves influence cannot be underestimated on how much it shaped Metallica. In my opinion, Metallica have been trash since they lost Cliff.
@@robthomson1327 It's not the internet, it's stuff that James himself has said, Lars himself has said, there's pictures of James in his 3 old bands before Metallica with guitar, theres the hit the lights release in 1982 before Dave joined, there's Ron Mcgovney talking about James's playing guitar in his old band (which Ron was in too) and even calling out Dave Mustaine for fabricating the idea that james didn't play guitar.
So everything Dave says is BS then? Mcgovney hates Dave, so i wouldt believe everything he says. Ive got pictues of myself with a guitar when i was twelve, doesnt mean i can play it.
@@robthomson1327 Mcgovney has praised Dave a lot that was the one time he called him out for saying James didn't play guitar back then. James himself on interviews said he learned at 14 and started his first band. He was the guitarist for Obsession, Leather charm and Phantom Lord before Metallica. Lars found James through recycler and they jammed together for months with James on guitar and Lars on drums. They recorded the song hit the lights, where James played rhythm guitar, bass and vocals and Lars played drums, they then got their friend Lloyd Grant to play the solos - you can find this yourself Metal massacre 1982 first edition. Dave heard this song and wanted to join the band, they rehearsed with both on guitar but James wanted to be like Sean Harris so sang for a few shows but was unhappy with the sound of the 1 guitar so went back to guitar and vocals. I'm saying either Dave is lying or he is misremembering as those are the only 2 options as it is fact James played guitar and there is Irrefutable proof he did and the only person that says he didn't is Dave Mustaine who has never been the most reliable source.
I've never saw anyone claiming Mustaine wrote all their four first albums. You're just strawmanning to get more traffic on your channel because of lack of competent content and ideas. That's weak af bro.
Ive found four real fast for the intro. You can rewatch the beginning part if you want. But thanks for the algo bump. And thats just the four easiest to find in my comments
And justice for all is arguably their best album, the black album is great and really successful, load and reload even though are mid I agree weren’t terrible, Metallica truly went downhill with st anger
I love Dave, for all he is and has done in the realms of metal,,, But for real, Kirk Hammett's solos in the 80s blows Dave's away,,, even if Dave is technically more technical... technically Fact is, James and Dave contain TOO MUCH testosterone for one band,,, they were fated to split into 2 bands
Dave Mustaine’s influence on Metallica is one of the most debated topics in metal history-this breakdown hoperfully finally separates some of the myth from the reality. 🤘 What do you think-is Mustaine Metallica’s unsung hero or just part of the story?
Something I don't agree with. While most of Horsemen was Mustaine, it seems that the sweet home alabama section, while written by Mustaine, was requested by Lars (so the idea to have a slow section in the song was not his). Vision matters. And, the debate becomes similar to director vs actor. Yes, the actor carries out the vision, but without the vision, there is nothing. On top of that, what I've seen is that the 1st breakdown before alabama was Metallica.
Overall, Mustaine had an influence on them. IMO, Horseman is by far the best track on KEA. But, his influence is WAY overstated by Mustaine followers, and it comes across as very jealous and petty.
Metallica's greatest accomplishments, had nothing to do with Mustaine, outside of 1 or 2 riffs on Lightning, and of course, Horsemen.
Megadeth is a very good band. Some great heavy metal songs, that should be enough for Mustaine followers to hold onto.
There's no denying he played a role, but he's certainly not the only one. Plus he's credited on several songs, given a special thank you on the first album and has been getting royalties. Some forget that there were others who wrote music too.
Well said!
While people say Mustaine is the one who "wrote 'em all", people always overlook his replacement 's contribution. Apart from iconic solos, there would be no Enter Sandman, "die" chant riff from Creeping Death, no bridge in Battery, no "come crawling faster" part of MoP and many more without Kirk Hammett.
Riffs are not songs. Megadave thinks he wrote everything that has three notes he strung together at one time or other.
@masikorski6411 Also the main riff in Trapped Under Ice and fast transition riff between the chorus/verses in Disposable Heroes are Hammett's contributions as well.
Metallica and Megadeth are the Yin-Yang of Heavy Metal. Metallica is often slower than Megadeth, but Megadeth is never heavier than Metallica. Lyrically, Hetfield is way more of a poet that expresses his own thoughts and emotions, while Mustaine is more of a screenwriter. His lyrics are less personal, and more about creating a scene for the audience. Metallica riffs are generally easier than Megadeth riffs, but are generally more memorable. Megadeth guitar solos are much more advanced than Metallica's, but Metallica solos are some of the most iconic solos ever recorded. When it comes to playing live, Megadeth rarely change their setlist and are extremely consistent.... Metallica are a bit inconsistent, but never play the same set twice in a row. All of these differences are the results of very different personality types, which is why they couldn't work together.
Those are some good points! I think more people need to take that into account as well, they arent the same bands because they are different people with different ideals.
You also forgot that Metallica is much more musical, especially in their 2,3, 4 album compared to Megadeth. So many classical composers cover their music for a reason.
@@MiguelGarcia-vj7oo and that reason is that theyre the most mainstream metal band that gets the most views
Megadave is a crybaby
Bro literally took the words out of my mouth. Spot on
the thing people dont realize is that every interviewer loves to ask mustaine about metallica so they can make head lines and get clicks so it makes it look like dave always talks ab out them but in reality no one ever stops ask i ng him ab out it
I think he should put a clause in that they aren't allowed to ask him because not only is it super disrespectful to him but it ends up making him look bad to audiences like he can't stop talking about them, he has a 40 year career there's no need to ask him anything to do with Metallica
for the solos on kea, the producer agreed that Kirk would play the first 4 bars to each solo exactly the same that dave played, and the rest of the solo had to be similar but he could put his own twist on it.
The fact that Dave shaped their sound and their direction is huge regardless of how many songs or riffs he wrote 😉
No i completely agree. But its unquantifiable just how much he influenced their sound. I should have put that in the argument
I think they already had a general direction of where to go. Mustaine, Hetfield and Ulrich bonded over their admiration for NWOBHM and punk bands. IMO Cliff influenced Metallica more than Dave.
That "Cliff" guy? Nah, he didn't do much.
You'd think Mustaine would be content with his own success, with Megadeth, instead of choosing to continue to live within Metallica's shadow. But I guess its an easy way to get attention to break out the old, "hey, did I ever tell you about that time I was in Metallica for all but five minutes?" every now and then. Because really lets look at Mustaine's history with Metallica
Was in the band for about two years
Spends the next forty plus years talking about the two years he was in the band
I still think though Justice and Rust are the Twin Peaks of Thrash.
thats what everyone thinks but every interviewer asks mustaine about it
@@leonshreds sometimes he is the one mentioning it or throwing jabbs at Metallica
Thats the thing that kept Megadeth from the truly world Success. This and never feeling like a family. There were so many line ups and different musicians that it always felt like Dave's personal project
@@gansior4744 yea, the only other guy who springs to mind - for me at least - who could give Megadave a run for his money, for having a revolving door of line up changes, is Jon Schaffer (Iced Earth)
Weird how the Megadave cult are the only ones with this problem, meanwhile he goes through musicians like underwear and just keeps right on playing their music.
Shhh, dont let them know it
Yea people forget Metallica had their base sound before Dave joined the band and in fact it was Dave who was in a band playing Kiss covers and more what he called 'party rock' before he met Metallica. Also Megadeth were never intended to be thrash until he saw Metallicas early success so there's a huge argument to be made on the effect James and Lars had on Daves writing. But they all helped shape each other
It can be argued that James and Lars had more of an influence on Dave in Megadeth than vice versa.
Yea thats how I would assume it works too. You learn from your peers so they probably all helped each other before the big split.
That's false. The very bandname Megadeth was supposed to be a songtitle, but they decided to go with Megadeth as the bandname and named the song "Set The World Afire".
Now try your argument about Megadeth not intended to be thrash again my sweet uneducated summerchild. You're just making things up as you go lmao 😂
@@MDoom-McDonought So your proof that Megadeth was always thrash is because they named the band Megadeth? 😅
Dave Ellefson himself has said Megadeth were NOT a thrash band and there songs were mid paced NWOBHM songs to even Sabbath slow songs until Dave Mustaine got a letter hoping his new band would be faster than Metallica so they sped all their songs up and made them more thrashy.
James couldnt even play guitar when Dave joined, so how the hell did they get their base sound?
3 words... Rust In Peace... Dave wins.
Like slayer, there is a fatigue to the album. Solo after solo gets old for me.
Not compared to Metallica's 2, 3, and 4 album's......... Much more musical. You see cliffs Burton's music theory educational influence in those records. .......
@MechanixV I kind of understand, but I separate myself from the singing and even some of the leads... I do agree Hanger 18 kinda goes too far... but the riffs on Rust are next level. The song structures... 🤘 and Dave and Marty are no Cacophony... but they just nailed it... I'm rambling...
overrated album. If I listen to Megadeth, it's almost always their first three albums
That's cute ☺
Great video, man !
It truly is a case of the unstoppable force and the immovable object. Dave being unstoppable and Metallica being immovable. You really can't have one without the other. I love them both. Personally, I prefer Megadeth. Simply by sheer numbers, there are more albums and songs that I like than Metallica. But Metallica came first into my life, and made me more than a metal head. They made me a thrasher. It didn't take long for me to learn who their original lead guitarist was, and what he went on to create. I feel a certain connection to Mustaine in the sense that he has that lone wolf quality. Comes with its pros and cons, like all things. I also believe he's a better guitarist in technical terms.
All in all everyone is entitled to their opinion and preference. I am glad to live in a world with such amazing bands, although I never stop wondering what a Metallica with Dave staying a member would have sounded like. Fucking incredible, for sure.
i was a #1 metallica fan and then i found megadeth and liked them more
Comparisons I Found That Never Get Mentioned!
01.Motorbreath & FFF (Beginning)
02.The Call Of Ktulu & When (Song Is A Mix Of Call Of Ktulu & Am I Evil Basically)
Anyway thanks for the video!
This is a fair assessment. I remember all this music coming out starting in 1983 but wondered who this Mustain guy was listed in the writing credits of Kill em all. I completely missed MegaDaves first record but was early into Peace Sells. Its a totally fascinating piece of metal history and personally I'm glad we got both groups because as a fan it all just added to my library of great metal music. Yeah they used Daves music but they also gave him credit and he got paid big time $$ its a win win
There's no way Dave's playing did not influence James's when they were teenagers. Imagine you're 19, and you meet the guy that invented spider chords.
Invented spider chords lol
Great video man! Your editing is top notch! And I think Dave actually did reclaim Jump in the Fire, he just transformed it into Tornado of Souls!
Thank you! I guess ill have to give tornado of souls another listen
At first I thought that Dave has to have made a comparable amount to Kirk when you factor in songwriting credits, but boy was I wrong. $14M vs $200M.
Thats insane! Where did you find that?
Great video, Brian! Very informative and I agree with everything you said. People mostly are just trying to be cool when they slight Metallica by saying Dave wrote everything, or that the band was better when he was in the band. I love Dave and am a huge megadeth fan. But Dave and Metallica were always better off going their separate ways. Not many could have done what Dave has done, coming back from a hit like that, and forming the 2nd biggest thrash band ever. Dave deserves his praise, but he doesn't deserve praise for what Metallica have done on their own, without him
Well said! And thank you!
@@BrianWGuitar You're welcome!
I completely agree with you.
At the end of the day, I take EVERYTHING Dave claims as a grain of salt. He says he wrote the additional riffs for The Four Horsemen BUT I don't buy it. He also claims that he wrote almost riff on the song Ride the Lightning.
If Dave remained in the band, I guarantee the band would have imploded. He probably would have got them hooked on heavier drugs. He also would have pushed for more control.
O for fucking sure, I think everything worked out perfectly for fans because we got both bands instead of Dave imploding Metallica
Either the band would've imploded or Dave would've been kicked by the time recording sessions for MoP would happen.
Either way, Hammett would most likely be committed to Exodus by this point too, so that's off the table. Would be an interesting discussion on who would've been the replacement guitarist for Metallica in this scenario.
This was such a great video. Hopefully it will reach more viewers. I agree with Dave been fundamental in the very early days of Metallica, but his contributions get over exagerated. He was credited for what he did for. I dn´t necessarly agree on him composing the two other parts of horsemen, it was Cliff who came with "Sweet home alabama" rip off, Mustaine jammed with him though. And the bridge, he definetly wrotte the intro to that, but the rest is Hetfield´s far as my understanding goes. Also, been such a good riff Mustaine would later used it. And he definetly didn´t wrotte a thing on Lepper Messiah.
However, Mustaine unadvertedly inspired part of a Metallica song in the black album (drum roll please): Enter Sandman. What happend was in 82´ they came together with an idea of using a prayer into a song, said prayer was "now i lay me down to sleep". Now, who came with the idea and who with the prayer is still for debate, but was a Dave-James thing (My guess is James came with the idea, Mustaine with the prayer). Coincidentially both bands incorporated this idea almost at the same time, Dave with Megadeth in "Go to hell" and James for Metallica in "Enter Sandman" wich ignited an infurating fight by Dave claiming James riped him off. Now the movie in wich Dave´s song features was premiered in july of 91´, but he did played that song about May that year. However, gor the time go to hell was premiered the Black Album was already recorded and just geting the last touches, in fact, Metallica´s demo predates incorporing the prayer before Megadeth. Crazy coincidence.
Thanks for the detailed breakdown and your insights!
6:50 i dont know if im right either but i heard that kirk had a few weeks to learn the solo's and thats why they are a little diffrent but they are 'inspired' from dave's solo's. again i dont know if that is true but thats just what i heard. I still like the way kirk played them but dave's versions on the demo's (altough a little sloppy but they are demo's) are better imo. Nice video!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! You’re right that there’s a lot of discussion around how Kirk approached the solos after joining Metallica. He had limited time to learn and adapt them, which might explain some of the differences. It’s interesting to compare his versions with Dave’s on the demos, and I can see why you might prefer Dave’s style. Both have their own unique flair, and it’s always fascinating to hear how these iconic solos evolved. Glad you enjoyed the video!
He had in all fairness a couple of days. Kill em all was recorded in New York in meer 15 days. Kirk was called by the band maybe a day before firing Mustaine, considering how quick the album got recorded and how much time he should put into making the solos feel and sound right he maybe had the first week of that, since solos are the last thing to be added i mean. I do recall reading he learned a lot of stuff on the flight to New York and probably had to double time the day to catch up.
13:01 Metallica is great but definitely not the greatest metal band of all time
While I understand not everyone may see Metallica as the greatest, their impact on the metal genre is undeniable. With their numerous accolades and influential songwriting, they’ve set a high bar. It’s all subjective, of course, and everyone has their preferences, but their achievements and popularity speak volumes about their legacy.
That spider chord riff in RTL was simplified by Metallica, though. They actually don’t play it like you did. He ended up using something similar, but with the spider chords, in Wake Up Dead. Also, Hangar 18 has some of the exact chords as Call of Ktulu.
Yea i did watch a few rtl live videos and i did notice i was complicating it! But i wanted to give the full effect
Agree with this video, and it's how I have always seen it. His name appears on the credits. Even Kirk said that he purposely kept the intros to the solos and a few of the licks to keep the fans happy at the shows but he always did his own thing in between.
Dave didn't want to give royalties to Chris Poland for his Rust In Peace solos but wants royalties for solos he didnt even perform lol
I am a bigger Megadeth fan than Metallica. It is a shame he had to keep whining about Metallica and this brief part of history he was involved in. His music far surpassed anything they did in terms of technicality and variety.
Lastly, I disagree with the sentiment that if you quit/leave/get fired from a band you get to take all your contributions with you. They were developed with the band/for the band and that's where it should stay.
I wish I had come across this video sooner so I could really be part of the conversation. No one is going to see this comment. lol Anyway, I think you are totally correct about about Dave's contribution. One thing I have wondered about, and there's no way to prove this because it is intangible, is how much influence Dave might have had on Metallica's early burgeoning hype because of the fierce raw fury of his playing and possible stage presence (and you know he couldn't keep his mouth shut). I'm not saying it was all encompassing or anything, and I'm not taking away Lars' business savvy. I just wonder though if Dave contributed to them getting offered a record contract as soon as they did. I'd love to hear from people who were at those early shows.
So many people in these comments confuse his riff contribution for how much he influenced their fame and possibly how the band viewed songwriting. Just because he didnt contribute a lot of music doesnt mean he didnt have an affect on Metallica and how they operate or where they got to.
İm a metallica fan since my childhood and i have no bad feelings on dave. İ think he is a very good guitarist but the reason that im not listening megadeth is about daves voice
Mustaine wrote four songs in Kill 'em All, The Four Horsemen, Metal Militia, Phantom Lord, and Jump In The Fire. These tracks were weak, except for Horsemen. He also wrote one spider chord riff in Ride the Lightning (song) and the intro in Call of Ktulu and both of them are not even the best part of the song. He even claimed that one riff in Leper Messiah, which I don't believe, his riff tape, and the riff in Lepper Messiah sounded so different.
Most people are over exaggerating Dave's work in Metallica when, in reality, it wasn't really that big, but it definitely helped Metallica in their early days, and I could say that Ride the Lightning to Black Album is a legendary run.
fym jump in the fire is weak?
No way metal militia phantom lord and jump in the fire is weak, also everything after mop is shit and much less quality
@deusgr Only elitists think like that, Metallica fell apart after Black Album, I'll even go as far as saying they fell off after Load with the exception of Death Magnetic. And yes those 3 songs are hella weak, Kill em All as an Album is weak, it's overrated.
@ justice sounds terrible and is boring, every song is the same for most of the record, black album is total dogshit, everything else is also trash other than st anger which was alright
@ kma is like a masterpiece album what, it’s great from start to finish
In all honesty, people with over 30 years old (being generous!) who are still talking about this need SERIOUS THERAPY lol.
You talking about me? Cuz i find these useless topics fascinating
@@BrianWGuitar I'm talking about fans in general. It depends on how long you are a fan of those bands, of course. I'm 41 years old, fan since I was 12.
@@HeathenDance Just turned 30 and have been listening to Metallica for 16 years. I just enjoy history and debating weak topics that I find interesting
I love Dave
Me too!
Dave wrote all the solos pretty much for the whole album...
also,
Dave is Bob Rock's real father, and he wrote the Black Album back before Kill em All was made... prove me wrong
Dave Mustaine invented heavy metal at Woodstock in '69 when he played the Star Spangled Banner disguised as a black man from Seattle.
Mustain is the GOAT
Dave is the biggest part of the big 4. Like it or not.
I agree with that but the argument in my video still stands
If Dave is so great why has so many left Megadeath then?
On Joe Rogans podcast he said theres a "part" of his on the 3rd record. Didn't say which part unfortunately
Most people think its Leper Messiah like it said but I didnt really hear it at all. 9:00
The fast riff in the middle of Leper Messiah behind "Witchery, Weakening..." - is the claim.
I dont see his style in anything after RTL. Dave had created some masterpieces but mostly I dont enjoy Megadeth. Usually its overcomplicated for no reason to be honest and Generally Lyrics are corny and weak. Rust in Peace tho is top creation of Metal
metallica is better without Dave
What's the music playing in the background?
I've never heard anyone say Dave wrote all their best stuff! Only what he's stated. Those six.
I get the comments all the time 😂.
Megadave denier. My answers are 1. He didn't do it. 2. He deserved to get fired for doing it.
Why say this? Because it's hilarious watching boomers huff copium trying to understand my nonsence.
He had No Influence at all, he co wrote solo jump in the fire solo
Co wrote solo metal militia
Phantom lord James wrote but gave the solo to dave
The 4 horsemen he and James wrote 50/50 dave Even said that on a RUclips video ( but everyone knows Lars aranged the songs)
He co wrote 10 sec on the interlude from the song ride the lightning
He co wrote 11 sec of the song the call of ktulu both these songs CLIFF rewrote
Dave co wrote 4 min and got a lot of royalties.
Megadeth 👍 🤘
Bro, you’re a guitarist and can’t hear leopard messiah. Come on bro
No i definitely did not hear leper messiah
@ I must be bias then. Either way, good playing. Wish I could do half of that! Keep it going 🤘
@@pimpchris21 thank you!
The fact that there is nearly 40 years of HEAVY DISPUTE regarding this very topic VALIDATES THIS VERY TOPIC. There is no doubt that Both Dave and Cliff INFLUENCED THE BAND IN A HUGE WAY. And the fact that Megadeth is a superior band indicates that Dave taught James. Dave was the engine and James was the caboose. Once James learned enough to become the engine; then Dave was kicked to the curb.
But learning from your peers and taking someones music are completely different things. Im saying that Dave did not write that much of Metallica's music, not that the band didnt learn something from him. They probably learned a lot from him as does anyone who works with other musicians.
Dave learned tonnes from James and Lars
@@deletedhero5579 Yea its definitely a two way street for sure
didnt you upload this already?
Yes yesterday but I made a fix to it
honestly, they got way better without him. Most of their albums are superior to kill and ride. Sure, he wrote Ktulu and Horsemen, those are great. But stuff like Jump In The Fire...among Metallica's weakest songs.
I never liked him as a riff writer.
Dave Untamed Mustang is as FOS now as he was 40 years ago . He didn't shape the Metallica Sound or Music what so ever . James and Lars had some Cover songs of Other bands and Some Original Songs already composed in 1981 before Dave ever showed uo in this band . Dave Claims James was Just a Singer when Dave showed up , which is nonsense . So James became a Down Picking Guitar Playing Singing Metal Maniac Genius when Dave showed up in 1981 ?
Dave's demise in Metallica is when he almost killed the entire band in Laramie , Wyoming when He fell asleep at the wheel driving the U Haul into a ditch with James Truck Attached to it in a Snow Storm Blizzard in March 1983 on their way to Rochester , NY . This is why they threw Dave in the back of the U Haul the Rest of the way there . This is why James refers to Dave was on his way to killing the entire Metallica band somehow was said in the VH1 Megadeth Behind The Music .
James and Lars had to Re-Write the lyrics for The Four Horseman and Jump In The Fire . They were too 80s Hair Sex Metal in their original versions . Phantom Lord and Metal Militia Were James and Dave written 50/50 . Call Of Ktulu Intro is Dave's . Dave Claims a Riff in Lepar Messiah is his . What's Ironic is Dave gets Royalties for The Four Horsemen and Mechanix . Highly unusual . Metallica couldn't sue Dave for Copyright infringement because Dave was the Primary Composer for both compositions .
Dude just let it go. He wrote some riffs but he did not shape their early music.
😂 you clearly dont watch my content because 50% of it is useless debates on these goofy topics that dont matter. Not everything needs to be a serious debate
Did he contribute to blitzkrieg
I believe that song is a cover!
I believe kirk couldnt play them as well as dave lol
you didnt really separate myth from reality, you just added your opinion. what you missed to mention i think is the fact Jaymz didnt even play guitar when Dave joined. so Daves influence cannot be underestimated on how much it shaped Metallica. In my opinion, Metallica have been trash since they lost Cliff.
Yes he did I explained in the other thread
I'll have to have a look, but I'm going off memory not internet bullshit
@@robthomson1327 It's not the internet, it's stuff that James himself has said, Lars himself has said, there's pictures of James in his 3 old bands before Metallica with guitar, theres the hit the lights release in 1982 before Dave joined, there's Ron Mcgovney talking about James's playing guitar in his old band (which Ron was in too) and even calling out Dave Mustaine for fabricating the idea that james didn't play guitar.
So everything Dave says is BS then? Mcgovney hates Dave, so i wouldt believe everything he says. Ive got pictues of myself with a guitar when i was twelve, doesnt mean i can play it.
@@robthomson1327 Mcgovney has praised Dave a lot that was the one time he called him out for saying James didn't play guitar back then. James himself on interviews said he learned at 14 and started his first band. He was the guitarist for Obsession, Leather charm and Phantom Lord before Metallica. Lars found James through recycler and they jammed together for months with James on guitar and Lars on drums. They recorded the song hit the lights, where James played rhythm guitar, bass and vocals and Lars played drums, they then got their friend Lloyd Grant to play the solos - you can find this yourself Metal massacre 1982 first edition. Dave heard this song and wanted to join the band, they rehearsed with both on guitar but James wanted to be like Sean Harris so sang for a few shows but was unhappy with the sound of the 1 guitar so went back to guitar and vocals. I'm saying either Dave is lying or he is misremembering as those are the only 2 options as it is fact James played guitar and there is Irrefutable proof he did and the only person that says he didn't is Dave Mustaine who has never been the most reliable source.
I don’t care. Rust in Peace is the greatest metal album ever and that is enough for me.
Amen!
Dude Jump in the Fire is a crap tune. It's just a chromatic scale. Kinda weak. That's why they don't play it any more.
still more creative than anything you’ll ever do in your life little guy
I've never saw anyone claiming Mustaine wrote all their four first albums. You're just strawmanning to get more traffic on your channel because of lack of competent content and ideas.
That's weak af bro.
Ive found four real fast for the intro. You can rewatch the beginning part if you want. But thanks for the algo bump. And thats just the four easiest to find in my comments
Bol
After puppets Metallica went down hill
Justice is there greatest album and we can't pretend Megadeth didn't go downhill after Rust in peace
And justice for all is arguably their best album, the black album is great and really successful, load and reload even though are mid I agree weren’t terrible, Metallica truly went downhill with st anger
If you're talking thrash that they originally were
Then I disagree
Justice was getting commercialized
@@nicholasriebe9418 How was - from a music standpoint- Justice commercialised?
They turned away from thrash and went to a beat that can play on most radio stations
I love Dave, for all he is and has done in the realms of metal,,,
But for real, Kirk Hammett's solos in the 80s blows Dave's away,,, even if Dave is technically more technical... technically
Fact is, James and Dave contain TOO MUCH testosterone for one band,,, they were fated to split into 2 bands