I think the 3050 Clan lights are a victim of the very primitive approach to game balance that the designers were using in the late '80s when these were developed. You have to remember that the game had no Battle Value system, nor indeed any points values at all, and IMO the developers were mostly concerned about introducing units for campaign play. If people did play a pickup game, tonnage balancing was the only tool we had. Because of this, the picture that I have mostly from pre-internet gaming experience and inference from how the mechs were designed and how the books were written is that FASA introduced these light mechs to be scary but not overly-difficult opponents. Hence being significantly underarmored, and avoiding the crucial 7th jump jet (the only mechs at the time that could jump 7+ were the Assassin and Spider, which were themselves also deeply flawed). This allowed GMs to use these mechs as early-campaign loot pinatas so their players could salvage the advanced Clan equipment to have more of an edge in the later-campaign fights against tougher Clan OPFOR medium and heavy mechs. Additionally, FASA was kind of hamstrung by their previous record of horribly-optimized mechs. Like, by modern standards the Mist Lynx is a terrible mech, but when you're driving a 3025-era Stinger it is still a terrifying opponent, because the Stinger sucks ass too, but only has IntroTech equipment available to it, so it's even worse. However, if you can salvage some FF armor and a couple Clan tech ER Smalls, all of a sudden your stinger is starting to look a lot better than the stock model, and customizing your units with salvage in campaign play has always been the norm.
@@TrailblazerBT It's not even that, There was an inside belief that 'mechs had a history, that errors were made, that procurement is a bitch. All the 'mechs had equivalencies in the 3025 and 2750 tech readout. The loki/hellbringer had the same heat problems and and armour as the rifleman for example. The uller/kit fox javelin. Catapult/marauder vs mad cat Orion vs Summoner gargoyle/charger fenris/clint loki/rifleman
I love everything about your vids, the content, how you communicate, and your analysis of the quality of the mechs and/or explanations for how to use them. Keep them coming!
Also, I could have added this to my original comment but I forgot: I appreciate when people actually talk about game balance in BT. While I appreciate that some aspects of the game defy balance (such as the inherently swingy ruleset), I think a lot of the fanbase ignores attempting to actually judge the tabletop effectiveness of units for weird cultural reasons, and I hope that the game can leave such scrubbery behind us.
I think my main issue is that early Light Omnis tend to lack armor and focus in the wrong kind of weapon loadouts. They wind up being as expensive as IS Assaults with next to no armor, and frequently the wrong kind of weaponry for their speed.
The way I build Clan forces is around a pair of Mediums, mainly the jumpers. Those boys are as hard to hit as lights and as well armored as (clan) heavies, and as long as they have at least 2 medium pulse lasers or an ERPPC they're dangerous. Then the other three are whatever weight class the star says it is, and can hang out at longer ranges thanks to the danger of advancing past the screening force. So I generally rate the badly armored, overgunned designs more highly because you can put the burden of keeping enemies at a safe distance on another unit.
I've never played it actually, I own HBS BT but have never set aside the time to get into it. I know Many Voices has played it in some videos and he's a serious competitive player, you could check out what he has to say about it
Honestly the Fire Moth configuration A makes for a really good dirt cheap BA carrier if you’re running without limits on your force size. You’d be better off taking a Locust 1V in a mech only fight though.
Clan non-omni mechs are often better than their omni mechs when factoring in BV. The the Horned Owl, Vixen, and Piranha are all awesome and can take on IS Mediums . The Fire Moth also has some great variants that are cheap kamikaze options.
i justove how people try to apply new rules on to old 80s designs. your evasion etc didnt exist so after a point it didnt natter how far a mech jumped and iy was more for just moving around terrain
I think the 3050 Clan lights are a victim of the very primitive approach to game balance that the designers were using in the late '80s when these were developed. You have to remember that the game had no Battle Value system, nor indeed any points values at all, and IMO the developers were mostly concerned about introducing units for campaign play. If people did play a pickup game, tonnage balancing was the only tool we had.
Because of this, the picture that I have mostly from pre-internet gaming experience and inference from how the mechs were designed and how the books were written is that FASA introduced these light mechs to be scary but not overly-difficult opponents. Hence being significantly underarmored, and avoiding the crucial 7th jump jet (the only mechs at the time that could jump 7+ were the Assassin and Spider, which were themselves also deeply flawed). This allowed GMs to use these mechs as early-campaign loot pinatas so their players could salvage the advanced Clan equipment to have more of an edge in the later-campaign fights against tougher Clan OPFOR medium and heavy mechs.
Additionally, FASA was kind of hamstrung by their previous record of horribly-optimized mechs. Like, by modern standards the Mist Lynx is a terrible mech, but when you're driving a 3025-era Stinger it is still a terrifying opponent, because the Stinger sucks ass too, but only has IntroTech equipment available to it, so it's even worse. However, if you can salvage some FF armor and a couple Clan tech ER Smalls, all of a sudden your stinger is starting to look a lot better than the stock model, and customizing your units with salvage in campaign play has always been the norm.
@@willydstyle This makes a lot of sense, I never thought of it!
@@TrailblazerBT It's not even that,
There was an inside belief that 'mechs had a history, that errors were made, that procurement is a bitch.
All the 'mechs had equivalencies in the 3025 and 2750 tech readout. The loki/hellbringer had the same heat problems and and armour as the rifleman for example.
The uller/kit fox javelin.
Catapult/marauder vs mad cat
Orion vs Summoner
gargoyle/charger
fenris/clint
loki/rifleman
@@MrDecelles Thought the Hellbringer was more a Clan Omni of the Warhammer than Rifleman.
@@SoloAxlion low armour, low heat sink for weight of guns, advanced targeting computer.
It’s more or less a rifleman.
There's a few that are alright for their cost. but the reason a clanner would generally include one is to save points to spend elswhere.
Keep em coming trailblazer, i will eat up everything battletech.
And totally agree, the OG clan light omnis were pretty bad for the BV cost.
Was typing a message about the Fire Moth H when you mentioned how good it is.
I love everything about your vids, the content, how you communicate, and your analysis of the quality of the mechs and/or explanations for how to use them. Keep them coming!
Incredible History
Such an Adorable franchise
Great presentation
Good work
I enjoy all of Trailblazer videos 🎉😊
2300 BV for a Firemoth D is nuts. Local games are usually 5k BV, can't imagine spending my whole budget to get two 20 ton mechs
20 tons just to make it worse
@@hollyone75 whoops forgot that the Dasher is 20
If you pile a point of battle armor on the Dasher it's tough as hell for the weight.
Also, I could have added this to my original comment but I forgot: I appreciate when people actually talk about game balance in BT. While I appreciate that some aspects of the game defy balance (such as the inherently swingy ruleset), I think a lot of the fanbase ignores attempting to actually judge the tabletop effectiveness of units for weird cultural reasons, and I hope that the game can leave such scrubbery behind us.
I think my main issue is that early Light Omnis tend to lack armor and focus in the wrong kind of weapon loadouts. They wind up being as expensive as IS Assaults with next to no armor, and frequently the wrong kind of weaponry for their speed.
Keep in mind the Clan's duelling tradition.
The machine's are made to win a duel.
@@dwwolf4636 I get it... But in a zellbrigen battle you might have to win multiple duels in a row!
The way I build Clan forces is around a pair of Mediums, mainly the jumpers. Those boys are as hard to hit as lights and as well armored as (clan) heavies, and as long as they have at least 2 medium pulse lasers or an ERPPC they're dangerous.
Then the other three are whatever weight class the star says it is, and can hang out at longer ranges thanks to the danger of advancing past the screening force.
So I generally rate the badly armored, overgunned designs more highly because you can put the burden of keeping enemies at a safe distance on another unit.
Uller and adder are good fire support mechs they pair well mediums.
I have no idea why people worry about "Standard" configurations with omni mechs...
@@dwwolf4636 I definitely like playing with non standard ones but they do really break the game balance...
Unless taken to silly extremes like TC and PL BV works fine for that.
clan invasion friend here. i've wondered what pro tabletop players like you think about BTA3062?
I've never played it actually, I own HBS BT but have never set aside the time to get into it. I know Many Voices has played it in some videos and he's a serious competitive player, you could check out what he has to say about it
@@TrailblazerBT Thank you!
Honestly the Fire Moth configuration A makes for a really good dirt cheap BA carrier if you’re running without limits on your force size. You’d be better off taking a Locust 1V in a mech only fight though.
The Dasher should avoid any unit with a large pulse laser
Please do introtech/~3025 (or ~3030?) as well
Also, timestamps would be very helpful too
@@NotMyGoogleID Yeah I should do timestamps for sure
Dang, crushing my hopes of a good light star on light lances battle if most the Clan mechs suck.
They'll still crush IS light mechs! Especially the ones available in 3050. I would say 5 Clan lights against 8 IS lights could easily be very balanced
Clan non-omni mechs are often better than their omni mechs when factoring in BV. The the Horned Owl, Vixen, and Piranha are all awesome and can take on IS Mediums . The Fire Moth also has some great variants that are cheap kamikaze options.
8:50 WHAT IN SAM HILL IS A PUMA?
Yep a bit shit
Either too slow , too paper , not enough jump jets or not enough sinking ......... ultra annoying though
@@mathewkelly9968 Or more than one of the above ;(
i justove how people try to apply new rules on to old 80s designs. your evasion etc didnt exist so after a point it didnt natter how far a mech jumped and iy was more for just moving around terrain
What on earth are you talking about? They had modifiers for target movement, terrain types and cover since the BattleDroids rules in 1984 (Page 10).