I know we're supposed to like big open crumb loaves with big ears but man, that 100% whole wheat loaf has an absolutely gorgeous looking crumb in my opinion. Looks absolutely perfect for eating with a spread on it!
I have been using 25-50% as a fermentation guide for a while now, regardless of the whole grain content in the bread. Works a treat! Great oven spring, blistering on the crust, and not-too-wildly-open of a crumb. Great experiment as always, Sune!
I think it really just depends on what you are going for. I've done a lot of experimentation like you and I have found my favorite breads are when I start with a super low hydration (55%-62%) and let the bread rise a lot more than 25%, more like 150% with a low inoculation (10%) over a long time. When I do that it definitely doesn't come out with an open crumb but man the flavor of such a long rise is out of this world
Question here. U are using a bulking container at a high temperatur (30° C) am i right? So the dough needs to cool down a lot more in the fridge and fermentes for longer. So at a lower bulking temperatur is 25% to 50% realle enought? I need to let my dought grow to 75% so it is not underfermented. And my Roomtemperatur is around 23° C
My dough only ever seems to rise up 50% in its straight sided container & then stays at that level. Yesterday I waited & waited until it finally grew up to 75% but it then seemed over-proved. But if I shape at 50% it seems under-proved.
Fresh milled flour is not a good idea for 100% loaves as the flour needs to oxidate for some days/weeks and make the gluten stronger. However, fresh milled flour is a fermentation booster, so perfect for low quantities, like 10-30%.
Love you work Sune. I wish you would have not included the variable of flour type here thought. I am very curious what the optimal rise/fermentation time is before retarding the bread given 4 controlled flour types. 2 variables confused me 😢
There's only one variable. Flour type. I have another experiment where I test the rise from 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% rise: ruclips.net/video/UvUJQ0nFVPg/видео.html
I have another question Sune. I tend to find most success at 25% rise and 50% rise seems to ask too much of the sourdough prior to the oven. I think the yeast gets overworked if you make it rise too much before the oven and it doesn’t have enough life left to spring maximally in the oven the next day. Do you measure your fermentation period based on when you place in the proofer or based on when size of the dough when you first combine the ingredients. Because I find the dough rises prior to proofing maybe 15-20%
In my limited opinion: the more whole grain you use, the higher must be the hydration, so the dough has the same final consistency and is elastic to rise.
Great experiment good to know the results. Have you ever done an experiments baking SD in a regular bread pan vs Dutch oven to get a loaf style bread? And have you ever baked SD in a bread machine? It would be nice to see if and how these could be alternatives to the great artisan style SD.
I have heard cold fermenting the bulk rise for 24 hours in the fridge after the initial proof(in the proofer) , then 24 hours in the banneton makes a better bread. So overall 48 hours to make a bread. I don't know if this is true or not. Also is it possible to not to use proofer and do the bulk rise for 24 hours in fridge.
@@green7apocalyptica Thats good to know. I heard getting bread to room temperature before cooking also gives more open crumb but is also stickier to get out of basket and harder to score.Nobody I have seen has done cold bulk and cold proof.My problem for years was i didn't realize how important a banneton was. I thought you could skip that step.
Does not the 25-50 % rule depend a lot on your fridge temp and retardation time? By the way, in Norway we have a really fantastic product called Fibra. Very finely milled whole wheat. Makes terrific sourdough bread! Thanks for a great vid!
Thanks :D I always recommend at least 8 hours retardation, so the dough can finish fermenting. For retardation your fridge should always be below 4C so that when it comes down to temperature it won't ferment any further :) I cover all of that in my "Are you fermenting sourdough bread wrong?" video :) ruclips.net/video/vmJU2IVEwT8/видео.html
@@Foodgeek Oh! I think it is good to mention these parameters in fermentation experiments, because I was not aware of it. My fridge dos not go all the way down, it seems (always almost full) so I have adjusted my procedure. Thanks again!
Enjoyed the video. Wouldn't you normally raise the hydration as you increased the whole grain percentage? Do you think the rise, and openness of the crumb would improve if you increased the hydration for tge 50 and 100% whole wheat?
@@Foodgeek Thank-you. But as the wheat percentage rises the dough gets stiffer which could effect gluten development, as higher hydration (I.e. no knead yeast dough) develops more gluten. It might be an interesting experiment.
I always try to only play with one variable at a time, or else it can be hard to deduce what's causing the change. An hydration experiment with 100% whole wheat could be interesting for sure 😊
How is it measured? I did an experiment way back and it seemed 25-50% is the sweet spot. At least the way I do it 😊 For me 100% still has rise, but not a lot of oven spring 😊
@@Foodgeek do you measure from you put it in the bulk container? Or do you take a sample after adding the levain and measure in a small jar? I'm getting decent oven spring, but I'm probably overfermenting, better do some more experimenting...
@@opn77 I measure it on the container itself. An aliquot jar can work but can be imprecise if you have precise temperature control during the process from mixing to the end of bulk. You won't be able to use a proofer either :)
I know you say to let it rise to 25%-50%. Have you experimented with those different percentages of rise before putting into the fridge? And what happens if you let it go to 75%?
Yes, that was my original fermentation experiment. At 75% it starts to suffer in terms of oven spring, and at 100% it starts to flatten significantly 😊
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Use code SUNE29827 for 20% off.
I know we're supposed to like big open crumb loaves with big ears but man, that 100% whole wheat loaf has an absolutely gorgeous looking crumb in my opinion. Looks absolutely perfect for eating with a spread on it!
I have been using 25-50% as a fermentation guide for a while now, regardless of the whole grain content in the bread. Works a treat! Great oven spring, blistering on the crust, and not-too-wildly-open of a crumb. Great experiment as always, Sune!
I think it really just depends on what you are going for. I've done a lot of experimentation like you and I have found my favorite breads are when I start with a super low hydration (55%-62%) and let the bread rise a lot more than 25%, more like 150% with a low inoculation (10%) over a long time. When I do that it definitely doesn't come out with an open crumb but man the flavor of such a long rise is out of this world
That sounds interesting to try. How long is long time?
@@sama1732 anywhere from 12-36 hours at room temp
Question here. U are using a bulking container at a high temperatur (30° C) am i right? So the dough needs to cool down a lot more in the fridge and fermentes for longer. So at a lower bulking temperatur is 25% to 50% realle enought? I need to let my dought grow to 75% so it is not underfermented. And my Roomtemperatur is around 23° C
I like to let my bread rise closer to 50% since I think I get a bit more open crumb which I like.
Butthead: Uh, hey Beavis. He just scored
Beavis: Yeah. He scored a lot
Hee hee hee! 🤣
Real science, Bravo, Sune..
My dough only ever seems to rise up 50% in its straight sided container & then stays at that level. Yesterday I waited & waited until it finally grew up to 75% but it then seemed over-proved.
But if I shape at 50% it seems under-proved.
Love the experiment and love the t-shirt 👍
Really digging your first 2 doughs shaping music in this video, salsa, bosanova?
Great experiment! Will you do any additional videos where you use freshly milled various flours?
How did the 0% one not come out super underproofed? Isn't that basically skipping most of the bulk fermentation process?
Fresh milled flour is not a good idea for 100% loaves as the flour needs to oxidate for some days/weeks and make the gluten stronger. However, fresh milled flour is a fermentation booster, so perfect for low quantities, like 10-30%.
Love you work Sune. I wish you would have not included the variable of flour type here thought. I am very curious what the optimal rise/fermentation time is before retarding the bread given 4 controlled flour types. 2 variables confused me 😢
There's only one variable. Flour type. I have another experiment where I test the rise from 25%, 50%, 75%, and 100% rise: ruclips.net/video/UvUJQ0nFVPg/видео.html
I have another question Sune. I tend to find most success at 25% rise and 50% rise seems to ask too much of the sourdough prior to the oven. I think the yeast gets overworked if you make it rise too much before the oven and it doesn’t have enough life left to spring maximally in the oven the next day. Do you measure your fermentation period based on when you place in the proofer or based on when size of the dough when you first combine the ingredients. Because I find the dough rises prior to proofing maybe 15-20%
In my limited opinion: the more whole grain you use, the higher must be the hydration, so the dough has the same final consistency and is elastic to rise.
Great experiment good to know the results. Have you ever done an experiments baking SD in a regular bread pan vs Dutch oven to get a loaf style bread? And have you ever baked SD in a bread machine? It would be nice to see if and how these could be alternatives to the great artisan style SD.
Hi Sune, would love to see your experimental take on the merits of scalded flour for rye bread. Devoted follower of the channel!
I have heard cold fermenting the bulk rise for 24 hours in the fridge after the initial proof(in the proofer) , then 24 hours in the banneton makes a better bread. So overall 48 hours to make a bread. I don't know if this is true or not. Also is it possible to not to use proofer and do the bulk rise for 24 hours in fridge.
Great idea..im going to try it.....
I did bulk in the fridge over night, then shaping and 2-3h in room temp and the bread was very good😊 I think I like cold bulk better than cold proof😆
@@green7apocalyptica Thats good to know. I heard getting bread to room temperature before cooking also gives more open crumb but is also stickier to get out of basket and harder to score.Nobody I have seen has done cold bulk and cold proof.My problem for years was i didn't realize how important a banneton was. I thought you could skip that step.
Does not the 25-50 % rule depend a lot on your fridge temp and retardation time? By the way, in Norway we have a really fantastic product called Fibra. Very finely milled whole wheat. Makes terrific sourdough bread! Thanks for a great vid!
Thanks :D I always recommend at least 8 hours retardation, so the dough can finish fermenting. For retardation your fridge should always be below 4C so that when it comes down to temperature it won't ferment any further :)
I cover all of that in my "Are you fermenting sourdough bread wrong?" video :) ruclips.net/video/vmJU2IVEwT8/видео.html
@@Foodgeek Oh! I think it is good to mention these parameters in fermentation experiments, because I was not aware of it. My fridge dos not go all the way down, it seems (always almost full) so I have adjusted my procedure. Thanks again!
Try to measure at the bottom. It's the coolest there.
Enjoyed the video. Wouldn't you normally raise the hydration as you increased the whole grain percentage? Do you think the rise, and openness of the crumb would improve if you increased the hydration for tge 50 and 100% whole wheat?
I think it would get flatter because there isn't as much potential gluten. Open crumb seems to be much more flour dependant than hydration dependant 😊
@@Foodgeek Thank-you. But as the wheat percentage rises the dough gets stiffer which could effect gluten development, as higher hydration (I.e. no knead yeast dough) develops more gluten. It might be an interesting experiment.
I always try to only play with one variable at a time, or else it can be hard to deduce what's causing the change. An hydration experiment with 100% whole wheat could be interesting for sure 😊
@@Foodgeek I agree and would like to see this experiment. Keep up the good work Sune!
I've seen so many other perfect loafs that get 100% rise during bulk fermentation, howcome you get such success with only 25%?
How is it measured? I did an experiment way back and it seemed 25-50% is the sweet spot. At least the way I do it 😊 For me 100% still has rise, but not a lot of oven spring 😊
@@Foodgeek do you measure from you put it in the bulk container? Or do you take a sample after adding the levain and measure in a small jar? I'm getting decent oven spring, but I'm probably overfermenting, better do some more experimenting...
@@opn77 I measure it on the container itself. An aliquot jar can work but can be imprecise if you have precise temperature control during the process from mixing to the end of bulk. You won't be able to use a proofer either :)
Why do you make another fold when you put the loaves in the last bowl?
When you say 25 percent are you talking about the rise in the dough during bulk fermentation ?
Yes 😊
@@Foodgeek thanks for your reply really appreciate it
I know you say to let it rise to 25%-50%. Have you experimented with those different percentages of rise before putting into the fridge? And what happens if you let it go to 75%?
Yes, that was my original fermentation experiment. At 75% it starts to suffer in terms of oven spring, and at 100% it starts to flatten significantly 😊
Cool split screen technique.
no dad joke?