The 1980s show was long drawn out..one annoying thing about it when it first came out it did not have subtitles for when the Japanese were speaking so you didn't know exactly what was going on.
Much, much better. Honestly, Richard Chamberlain never worked as Blackthorne for me. Still, it was a good effort for the time, and of course Mifune was great as always, as was John Rhys-Davis. They couldn’t afford enough extras, so it looked like they were trying to make wage war on a tight budget.
The 80s version was much better. Stuck to the book and wasn't ruined by wokish characters. Tokugawa was a guy who survived over 25 battles. Guy wouldn't be some soft gentle weakling like we are seeing here. Seems as though they can't develop characters these days or screen write. Visually stunning though
@joyfulgirl91 that's what I thought until I started watching it. It is in my top 10 of books I've ever read. Marino and toranaga are so far off from how they would really be. Watch the 80s version and you appreciate just how well those actors portrayed what the period would have been like. Clavell was part of the production so the series was very well aligned to the book and period
There’s a tale regarding to three great samurai leaders of Japan regarding the bird singing. “If a bird won’t sing, Oda Nobunaga will kill it.” “If a bird won’t sing, Toyotomi Hideyoshi (the Taiko) will make it sing.” “If a bird won’t sing, Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga) will wait for it to sing.” Summed up how each of these samurai leaders used their different philosophy to unify the country.
I would like to add another thing about Tokugawa Ieyasu, probably the most important aspect that has a long lasting effect on Japan until these days. He was a founder of Tokyo (formerly called Edo at that time). Without him, a current capital of Japan would have been Osaka (founded by Taiko) or Kyoto but Tokugawa led the mega project about the transformation of Edo from a small fishing village at the eastern coast into a metropolis that is a heart of Japan.
And, with Meiji Restoration, Edo was renamed as Tokyo, meaning eastern capital, and Imperial Household moved from Kyoto, placing a current Imperial Palace on the site of Shogun’s Edo Castle.
If it weren't for Tokugawa Ieyasu, a Buddhist, Japan would have become a colony of Portugal. He expelled the Portuguese and Spaniards from Japanese soil forever, banned Christianity, and isolated the country. Many Japanese people are grateful for Tokugawa Ieyasu's insight now. Oda Nobunaga was a believer in Shinto and used the Jesuits to suppress Buddhism. Toyotomi Hideyoshi was an atheist, but after seeing the Jesuits enslaving Japanese people and selling them overseas, He planned to conquer the Philippines, a Catholic stronghold. He died just before the military operation
Amazing that the Tokugawas held the shogunate for 265 years until it was abolished. The Tokugawa clan still exists and still has social relevance in Japan.
by the way it is very IRONIC that tokugawa is played by actor whose last name is SANADA who may or may not been a descendent of Yukimura/or his older brother/cousin/ Sanada.
the 1980's had the legendary Toshiro Mifune (of Seven Samurai fame alongside many others) as Toranaga. Now we have an equally legendary Hiroyuki Sanada (The Last Samurai and John Wick 4 for the most recent) playing the role. 100% believe that Hiroyuki-san chose to portray Toranaga as his own interpretation of the younger, more stern/serious younger Ieyasu, which is his right as both an actor *and as one of the producers of the show*.
Definitely want to see a Mariko deepdive. This series is grittier than the 80s version. You can see the female empowerment angle and I love how this version gives us a richer backstory to some of the minor characters. The characters feel richer and well thought through
I have, and I agree with you. As I said above, I don't like the casting of this take on "Shogun," especially Toranaga and Yabu. Both Sanada and Asano are good actors, but they don't match the way Clavell imaged them. @@incisivecommenter5974
I've seen the original Shogun Mini series here into germany as a kid. I appreciated and adored the roles of Richard Chamberlain, legendary Toshiro Mifune, and Yoko Shimada (RIP, she turned only 69 😥) Not seen the new FX series yet, but it looks quite cool from the trailers. Read the book into my teenage days. I'd read it again, this time, in english. It was a masterpiece by James Clavell. His other books, which have been way popular, have been also created as movies, say Tai-Pan, or Noble House, which turned into a mini series with Pierce Brosnan back into it's heyday.
If you ever get a chance to watch the Musashi Trilogy, with Toshiro Mifune, do it. It's brilliant, and much, much better than the later versions. @@oemchen77
The original show it’s worth watching. It does seem to be a bit of a language lesson with some historical and cultural key marks. Well worth it. It definitely captures the culture
William Adams, the model for Blackthorne, and the survivors were well cared for after being washed ashore. Not like in the movies. Although they were briefly imprisoned due to their unknown identity and at the request of Catholic forces, curiosity and usefulness towards non-Catholic Europeans eventually won out.
I'm really liking this new Shogun series. I watched the 80's version when it came out and it got me fascinated with Japanese culture and history. I have wanted to read the book ever since then. I think now is the time. I should watch the original version of Shogun again as well since it's been years. I would like videos on every major character in the story you can find historical information on. Thanks for the video.
The Tale of Genji (novel) was written 600 years before the time of Toranaga. It was written by a Japanese woman named Murasaki Shikibu. It is difficult to read, but there is an English version.
The best is Clavell's original book which is fantastic, I read it every 2nd year. It is so rick rich in details and exciting to the max, that both series (1980 and 2024) are just week and pale semi copies of it.
I agree that the book is so utterly rich and takes the reader on the journey from 'stinking European' to 'cultured and precise' Japanese! But I would also say that the two film versions do a good job of capturing the essence of it; they could never capture ALL of Clavell's rich tapestry but they are a joy to watch.
I haven't seen this show yet but I'm interested in it. Also I'm happy that Sanada san is in another Sengoku/Edo related show. Fun fact: Around 1980's, young Sanada san played the role of one of Ieyasu Tokugawa's son who married Date Masamune's daughter. It's fun knowing that now he is playing the role of the father.
The show is sticking very well to real history which is what makes it so good. Only thing is in the book after Toranaga wins the battle he burried Ishido up to his neck and let him die a very slow miserable death
The casting in the earlier Shogun (except for Richard Chamberlin) was more in line with the book. Blackthorne was supposed to have been a big, burly man, and while Chamberlin wasn't a girly man, he didn't fit the image I had developed of the character. I always felt Oliver Reed or someone more like him would have been a better Blackthorne. But the Japanese cast, in my mind at least, was superlative. Mifune and Sakai were standouts as Toranaga and Yabu, both big and energetic men... Mifune's Toranaga brought the passion and love-of-life spirit to his character that I found in the book, and Sakai was perfect as (to western eye's at least) the loathsome Yabu. And I enjoyed the portrayals of Mariko and Omi much more that I am in the older version. I'll be interested in your take after you get to see the 80s movie. One other thought... the 80s version was filmed in almost constant sunlight, while so much of this show is filmed with grey, overcast skies. I didn't remember that until I went back and watched the older version, but that may be a part of why I'm not enjoying it as much.
one issue i have with this is that you say the rest of the crew of "de liefde" eventually went free, that is not true and that also comes back to the interogation of Adams, it wasnt just adams that was being interogated. There was also the 2nd mate of "de liefde" jan joosten van Lodensteyn who was also being interogated alongside Adams and was also made a Samurai by Ieyasu after years of service and his name was changed to Yayōsu and he was also not allowed to leave Japan just like Adams, Lodensteyn became the main advisor on trade and economics to Ieyasu and was also instrumental in setting up the red seal trade. Due to Lodensteyn being protestant like Adams and the Dutch when they arrived not being interested in converting but rather just trading unlike the Portuguese it ensured that during the time that Japan closed itself off from the rest of the world that the Dutch were still allowed to trade with Japan. the Yaesu part of Tokyo is named after Lodensteyn due to it being the place his old home was located and there is still a statue of him located there in the Yaesu underground mall in Tokyo station.
Read the book 3 times and watched the original mini series twice. I have seen pictures of Toranaga played by the actor in the new series. I guarantee no one can play Toranaga like the legendary Toshiro Mifune, in the original series
@brianholly3555 I agree. The woman who played mariko did a superb job of conveying the way of Japanese Zen, her conviction in her European faith whilst maintaining feminity. They made the period very believable. I don't understand why Chamberlain gets so much grief. He's light years ahead of the new guy although the cast is only as good as the screen writing
Ieyasu did not just managed to make daimyos in Mitsunari's service switch by promising things. Few powerful damyos disliked him intensely. As it is said in the Tv series, Mitsunari was a bureaucrat. Some who disliked him were generals. Key was Hideaki who had 15, 000 under him. Others defectors only had small numbers (max 3000) under each of them. Also, they were using plenty of guns by that time.
In the Richard Chamberlain miniseries the politics of the regency is very much simplified. The issues are very much Toranaga vs Ishido. The presence of other regents, most particularly Christian regents, is very much glossed over. The novel maps somewhat more closely to the actual events, and the new series does the same.
My friends were all excited by the early 1980's mini series and didn't stop talking about it. When I started to watch the series, though, as much as I liked the cast, story and production values, there was one thing that made it impossible for me to continue watching it. Every time the Japanese were about to appear, the music was da-da-dada-dum, pretty exactly the same as was always used in the Westerns when the "Indians" appeared. I had read Shogun and everything I could get my hands on by James Clavell so I was emotionally invested in Shogun. Yet that persistent 'uh-oh, here comes the Indians' music trivialized to me what had been done to the reality Blackthorne was facing and was going to face throughout the series. Honestly, I found it racist and revolting, totally distracting and demeaning not only to the Japanese but also to Clavell's brilliant book. I got through perhaps the third episode, and then gave it up in disgust. I just couldn't watch it. My hopes are far higher for this new series. Time to get Hulu!
Oda Nobunaga (Kipposhi), Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Kinoshita Tōkichirō) & Tokugawa Ieyasu (Matsudaira Takechiyo ) These three were the iconic trio who brought about the unification of Japan in the Azuchi-Momoyama Period (Sengoku Period) Its so popular is modern pop culture, movies, dramas, games and anime.
I read the entire series by James Clavell. And I saw the original mini series, Shogun. I enjoyed the character, Yabu?, he was unlikeable yet true to his samurai code in his own way. Perhaps the most human of the characters in his flaws. I don't have a subscription so I may not ever watch this version. Read the series. It's great.
This drama correctly represents Japanese culture. Past Hollywood productions were terrible...for example, Last Samurai. The scene where Tom Cruise meets the Emperor was shot in a small temple. However, the Emperor's castle at that time was the second largest in the world in history. Photographing a gigantic 8000ha castle at a small temple...😊
Is it just me, but ain´t the actor playing Blackthorne strange looking? it´s something about his eyes and his face, same expressions no matter what happends. The show is epic otherwise :)
Oh! I get to be that guy! The "Iyasu" is throwing me off 😅 Correct pronunciation is something more like long-e, long-a, then the yasu. The "i" and the "e" are both pronounced in the name. Now, if you'll all excuse me, I have a very exciting party to attend, where I'm assured that I will be the guest of honor. 🤓
I tried listening to different pronunciations of it and so many were different so it was hard to gauge! But thanks for the heads up, i'll remember that for next time!
Americans do not watch these caring about history but the action and fighting. Everything else seems to fill in according to the person. For instance I loved The Last Samurai with Tom Cruise. I also watched Shogun back in the eighties 2 times and loved them all. I do need a story I can't just go with a lot of noise and karate like the fighting just for movement and yelling. I need some kind of plot.
Can't wait to see Kato Kiyomasa bring the thunder down on the western armies. think Robert Baratheon in his prime wielding the hammer. The man is awe inspiring, a Japanese Spartan if there ever was one. Dude was nuts.
Well looking at Toranaga crest looks like Tokugawa crest and Taiko obviously Hideyoshi Toyotomi and Ishido probably Mitsunari Ishida, maybe ? Eastern army vs Western army
The original was great, but sadly as a viewer when Marico. Died. I saw a broken man. And I think we all wanted a different story. Of them ending up together. It became a sad, series. With little glimmer. Think that's the sad part, when in reality it's simular to history
The new Shogun series is not based on the previous miniseries, it's based on the book. Why did you say it's based on the miniseries? The producers beg to differ.
5:30, again MAJOR Spoilers if you had not read the book and don’t want to be spoiled. In the book, at the end, Toranaga admitted that he needed a good friend and is doing everything to keep him in Japan cause he dare not trust his own kind, even his family. I have no doubt Iyeasu did the same with William since a man of his stature and power can’t trust anyone but a Western “barbarian”? Yes, he can.
It's amazing. IRL - Iyeasu was the villain that they were painting "Ishido" on the show to be. But because he was Sekigahara's victor, and his clan ruled Japan up until the Meiji period - most modern Japanese pop culture media paint him as the golden boy. Granted his efforts did end the Sengoku era of war - but he wasnt at all the noble and altruistic hero that most modern interpretations paint him to be.
You know that the history is quite uninteresting when it comes to local political dispute between the regent lords of japan. What made this much more interesting is the fact that during this time weather they care or not, the moment the Japanese learn that they are but one of many countries that are "Possessed" indirectly by the Spaniards and the Portuguese in the international trade war against the British empire. Also the fact that the Spaniard and the Portuguese decided to place the head of a nation with people who are devout to the catholic as a figurehead.
While missionaries and the slave trade are paired, it's unnatural that the drama doesn't feature the African-slaves taken by Portuguese, Dutch and English. Many Samurai were appalled by the slave trade and wrote in their diaries; "women and children were stripped naked, chained around their necks, and crammed into ships tightly packed. From the ships, one hears constant wailing and screams all day and night. This is the hell." Hideyoshi(Taiko) was outraged by these reports and banished the Christians.
The 80's series was better to this point. This updated version of has many high points. 80's version is seen from the total vision center of Blackthorn. The book has many point of view characters. New version looks better. It has a real and used feeling. The original broke ground filming in Japan everything was built new in traditional fashion. Every thing being new creates an unreal reality. From the cast it is in fair to compare the cast. The new one has Very good to great actors. The 80's has Legendary actors: Toshiro Mifune; and John Rhys Davies. To this point it is acceptable and it included the Diving teacher from the books which was excluded from the novel. It is holding up on a high bar. The Bar is high. The bar is not so high for Taipan, a little higher for Noble House and King Rat. Gaijin and Whirlwind have not been adapted.
This show is not nearly as good as the original. Frankie Sakai's portrayal of Yabu was a lot better than this version and the same goes for Yoko Shimada and Toshiro Mifune.The acting and screen play was so much better. And the actor that is playing blackthorne is terrible in my opinion.
Totally agree. Mariko doesn't have that femine beaty portrayed by the original actress. Visually stunning but they have butchered the book and toranaga is a weakling. The 80s guy nailed it
First off you’re completely wrong about your historical intro. Shogun is a work of historical fiction. The real Tokugawa Ieyasu began his rule in 1603 he was an ally of Oda Nobunaga before his death and Hideyoshi rise to power during the Sengoku period. The major battles included Battle of Anegawa, battle of Tenmokuzan, battle of Yamasaki where Hideyoshi avenged the death of his lord Oda becoming the most powerful Daimyo in Japan. After the failed invasion of Korea and death of Hideyoshi, the council of five elders appointed to rule until his heir came of age, Tokugawa being the most powerful daimyo. However, Ieyasu had no intention of relinquishing his power to the other warlords culminating in the final Battle of Sekigahara, where Hideaki famously switched sides resulting in a total Tokugawa victory. None of the battles you mentioned are even relevant, they were simply the Five Elders positioning their forces between Ieyasu’s armies before the actual battle.
I wouldn't describe it as being based on the mini series, which was based on the book. This is a better adaptation of the book and takes nothing from the 1980 adaptation
Wrong on the better adaptation. Read the book again and watch the original series! This remake skips important events, rushes others and even changes so many events that were based on those skipped events that it becomes nonsensical. Also changes order in which events happen, making things confusing. There's 0 chemistry between Mariko and Blackthorne, no sepukku in the pit, almost no Buntaro scenes from the book, characters are just caricatural archetypes (besides Yabu, Toranaga and Omi, who show a bit of depth), Rodrigues' and Father Alvito's nationalities are reversed and they are easily forgettable, Blackthorne's crew's stories, while not that many in the book, are skipped in the new remake and many more "creative licences" taken that makes this show hard to watch and understand for new viewers and infuriating for book and original mini series' fans.
Really tired of old fans, pretending like they know what new viewers think and speak for them. Nobody care about you opinion, go read the book 7th time and jerk off at it, bruh.
sadly the actress that played her in the 80s version passed away in real life a few years ago. I loved her too . I thought she was amazing and so beautiful as a teen i was blown away by her. @@Man_fay_the_Bru
The 1980s show was long drawn out..one annoying thing about it when it first came out it did not have subtitles for when the Japanese were speaking so you didn't know exactly what was going on.
3 words to summarize both of these in realife. Tokugawa Ieyasu Paranoid, Greedy, Cunning. Ishida Mitsunari Honourable, Loyal, Overconfident. Dont like how the show is picturing Ishido, I get its a show but cmon. Doing Ishida Mitsunari dirty
It's interesting! During researching I saw that he was kind of seen as a bit of a laughing stock in the history books, but over time he's become more respected and if as many people didn't betray him things could have been different
Tokugawa also barley helped with Korea which lead to imbalance of power, which swayed the lords to switch sides more easily. Closing an entire country just cause of a personal vendetta aint wisdom if you ask me & we both know what happend to Hideyori. Well afterall Meiji restoration happend which lead to western army victory in the end luckily otherwise we would have had 2 china. Ill give one thing to tokogawa, they became more enlightened with what it means to be Japanese.
That's why they changed their names though, so they could be liberal with the characterization. Had the writers (and Clavell) claimed to depict actual historical figures, I'd have an issue with mischaracterization too, but Ishido isn't Ishida and Toranaga isn't Tokugawa, nor are they one on one copies, so I'd say that their character being different is perfectly fine.
@@easternlights3155 yeaa i agree with you which why i started with in realife & ended with i get its a show, its just alot of rewriting history thats going on in modern filmaking/documentaries which i dislike cause they have done it to my culture & presented it as facts, but this was 4 years ago so people were like so what? its "white people" so im quick to point out historical points. But yea this show is not presenting itself as 100% accurate, which was the point of the vid which why it caught my eye. it was not meant to criticize the contentcreator or the show im enjoying it, ever since i learned how Japan formed i have always seen Tokogawa as a lesser scheming man of Toyotomi which stole his work from his son. He was not content with his blood being Shogun which makes him even less likeable. His life was being a bouncer for Oda then Toyotomi then all the sudden hes the CEO cause he didnt wanna help in Korea :D
I saw Mitsunari was so strict (even with himself), too loyalty and he didnt have good (also ruined) relationships with many people, especially Toyotomi loyalist. Ieyasu is more a man who know how to win any daimyo at heart well.
The made for TV miniseries from 1980 is straight garbage. Please read the book first. The book is a masterpiece, and this new FX series is based on it, not the 1980 series (there are already scenes in the FX series that appeared in the books and didn't appear in the miniseries).
@@Kogasengaha_Hishoshi Well its on the Disney Channel, so it's a legitimate question. Everything they make is Woke AF. This must an exception. Don't get your knickers in a twist, you touchy little fart sniffer.
![Baby Kia - GLOVES & DRACS (BLACK AF1s) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ajm8LeB0qQk/mqdefault.jpg)
How do you think this show compares to the 1980's mini series? Let me know your thoughts below!
The 1980s show was long drawn out..one annoying thing about it when it first came out it did not have subtitles for when the Japanese were speaking so you didn't know exactly what was going on.
Much, much better. Honestly, Richard Chamberlain never worked as Blackthorne for me. Still, it was a good effort for the time, and of course Mifune was great as always, as was John Rhys-Davis. They couldn’t afford enough extras, so it looked like they were trying to make wage war on a tight budget.
The 80s version was much better. Stuck to the book and wasn't ruined by wokish characters. Tokugawa was a guy who survived over 25 battles. Guy wouldn't be some soft gentle weakling like we are seeing here. Seems as though they can't develop characters these days or screen write. Visually stunning though
80s version was good but that was a long time ago, it’s great that this story is being told again
@joyfulgirl91 that's what I thought until I started watching it. It is in my top 10 of books I've ever read. Marino and toranaga are so far off from how they would really be. Watch the 80s version and you appreciate just how well those actors portrayed what the period would have been like. Clavell was part of the production so the series was very well aligned to the book and period
There’s a tale regarding to three great samurai leaders of Japan regarding the bird singing.
“If a bird won’t sing, Oda Nobunaga will kill it.”
“If a bird won’t sing, Toyotomi Hideyoshi (the Taiko) will make it sing.”
“If a bird won’t sing, Tokugawa Ieyasu (Toranaga) will wait for it to sing.”
Summed up how each of these samurai leaders used their different philosophy to unify the country.
Ieyasu was famous for his patience, for biding his time and letting opportunities develop.
I think Iike the last one bestß
"Nobunaga mills the rice..."
"Hideyoshi kneads the dough..."
"Ieyasu eats the cake..."
Thanks to his patience(to wait until the bird sings), Ieyasu survived and won the civil war.
also, nobunaga made the mochi ( jap. rice cake)
hideyoshi cooked the mochi.
tokugawa ate the mochi........
I would like to add another thing about Tokugawa Ieyasu, probably the most important aspect that has a long lasting effect on Japan until these days.
He was a founder of Tokyo (formerly called Edo at that time). Without him, a current capital of Japan would have been Osaka (founded by Taiko) or Kyoto but Tokugawa led the mega project about the transformation of Edo from a small fishing village at the eastern coast into a metropolis that is a heart of Japan.
And, with Meiji Restoration, Edo was renamed as Tokyo, meaning eastern capital, and Imperial Household moved from Kyoto, placing a current Imperial Palace on the site of Shogun’s Edo Castle.
If it weren't for Tokugawa Ieyasu, a Buddhist, Japan would have become a colony of Portugal. He expelled the Portuguese and Spaniards from Japanese soil forever, banned Christianity, and isolated the country. Many Japanese people are grateful for Tokugawa Ieyasu's insight now.
Oda Nobunaga was a believer in Shinto and used the Jesuits to suppress Buddhism.
Toyotomi Hideyoshi was an atheist, but after seeing the Jesuits enslaving Japanese people and selling them overseas, He planned to conquer the Philippines, a Catholic stronghold. He died just before the military operation
@@davidcoldstar6333 wouldn't have happened.
Amazing that the Tokugawas held the shogunate for 265 years until it was abolished. The Tokugawa clan still exists and still has social relevance in Japan.
Tokugawa = Targaryen
Nobunaga pounds the rice cake, Toyotomi kneads it, and Tokugawa sits down and eats it!
by the way it is very IRONIC that tokugawa is played by actor whose last name is SANADA who may or may not been a descendent of Yukimura/or his older brother/cousin/ Sanada.
Sanada is a stage name. His real name is Shimozawa Hiroyuki. He is of an agricultural background
what Ey-ey-ron said
this npc thought sanada is his real name lmaoo
@@Deymetrey why would u think differently unless u look up the dude on google?
Youre an npc lol@@Deymetrey
the 1980's had the legendary Toshiro Mifune (of Seven Samurai fame alongside many others) as Toranaga. Now we have an equally legendary Hiroyuki Sanada (The Last Samurai and John Wick 4 for the most recent) playing the role.
100% believe that Hiroyuki-san chose to portray Toranaga as his own interpretation of the younger, more stern/serious younger Ieyasu, which is his right as both an actor *and as one of the producers of the show*.
This is the first time that I view this series. Very interesting indeed. I look forward to next week's presentation.
Definitely want to see a Mariko deepdive. This series is grittier than the 80s version. You can see the female empowerment angle and I love how this version gives us a richer backstory to some of the minor characters. The characters feel richer and well thought through
Yeah she'd be fun to learn more about!
Yes but Mariko was more personable in the book. Plus in this series seriously lacks the chemistry between Mariko and Anjin-san
@incisivecommenter5974 too early to say that tbh 😅
@@johnnielurker not really. You haven't read the book either, huh?
I have, and I agree with you. As I said above, I don't like the casting of this take on "Shogun," especially Toranaga and Yabu. Both Sanada and Asano are good actors, but they don't match the way Clavell imaged them. @@incisivecommenter5974
I've seen the original Shogun Mini series here into germany as a kid. I appreciated and adored the roles of Richard Chamberlain, legendary Toshiro Mifune, and Yoko Shimada (RIP, she turned only 69 😥) Not seen the new FX series yet, but it looks quite cool from the trailers. Read the book into my teenage days. I'd read it again, this time, in english. It was a masterpiece by James Clavell. His other books, which have been way popular, have been also created as movies, say Tai-Pan, or Noble House, which turned into a mini series with Pierce Brosnan back into it's heyday.
I think the whole Europe watched it 😅 at that time .There was a joke going around that the newspapers were looking for anyone who didn’t follow it
Miyamoto Musashi was present during battle of sekigahara
That would be a great easter egg if he happened to show up in the show. As an actor I'd wish for Ken Watanabe...
On the losing side
If you ever get a chance to watch the Musashi Trilogy, with Toshiro Mifune, do it. It's brilliant, and much, much better than the later versions. @@oemchen77
@@oemchen77 yeah because a 17teen year old man looks like Ken Watanabe
Then we will have side series as vagabond
The original show it’s worth watching. It does seem to be a bit of a language lesson with some historical and cultural key marks. Well worth it. It definitely captures the culture
William Adams, the model for Blackthorne, and the survivors were well cared for after being washed ashore. Not like in the movies.
Although they were briefly imprisoned due to their unknown identity and at the request of Catholic forces, curiosity and usefulness towards non-Catholic Europeans eventually won out.
I'm really liking this new Shogun series. I watched the 80's version when it came out and it got me fascinated with Japanese culture and history. I have wanted to read the book ever since then. I think now is the time. I should watch the original version of Shogun again as well since it's been years. I would like videos on every major character in the story you can find historical information on. Thanks for the video.
Glad you enjoyed the video!
It's on youtube
Pretty interesting story remember reruns of the original 1980s in the 90s on sky back in the day with Richard Chamberlain in the tv series
Nobunaga piled the rice,
Hideyoshi kneaded the dough
and Tokugawa ate the cake.
This sums up the Sengoku Jidai of Japan.
Yeah, Tokugawa is overrated, he only became daimyo because he lived the longest.
@@stuartiles5498because he was patient and tempered
I can’t wait to see this version of Toranaga reveal his true intentions. It’s gonna be epic for sure
Yeah he's such an epic character!
Video starts at 1:43
The Tale of Genji (novel) was written 600 years before the time of Toranaga. It was written by a Japanese woman named Murasaki Shikibu. It is difficult to read, but there is an English version.
The best is Clavell's original book which is fantastic, I read it every 2nd year. It is so rick rich in details and exciting to the max, that both series (1980 and 2024) are just week and pale semi copies of it.
I agree that the book is so utterly rich and takes the reader on the journey from 'stinking European' to 'cultured and precise' Japanese! But I would also say that the two film versions do a good job of capturing the essence of it; they could never capture ALL of Clavell's rich tapestry but they are a joy to watch.
Read it 4 times, the pages are yellow, absolutely enthralling work, cinematic depictions never really capture the books, one of my top 3 of my life..
I just LOVE him in everything 💕
Yeah he's great!
He's not entirely a representation of Tokugawa, as indicated by his name. He's more an amalgamation of Tokugawa and Oda Nobunaga.
I haven't seen this show yet but I'm interested in it. Also I'm happy that Sanada san is in another Sengoku/Edo related show.
Fun fact: Around 1980's, young Sanada san played the role of one of Ieyasu Tokugawa's son who married Date Masamune's daughter. It's fun knowing that now he is playing the role of the father.
P.S. the show I'm talking abt is a old Japanese show about Date Masamune
The show is sticking very well to real history which is what makes it so good. Only thing is in the book after Toranaga wins the battle he burried Ishido up to his neck and let him die a very slow miserable death
The casting in the earlier Shogun (except for Richard Chamberlin) was more in line with the book. Blackthorne was supposed to have been a big, burly man, and while Chamberlin wasn't a girly man, he didn't fit the image I had developed of the character. I always felt Oliver Reed or someone more like him would have been a better Blackthorne. But the Japanese cast, in my mind at least, was superlative. Mifune and Sakai were standouts as Toranaga and Yabu, both big and energetic men... Mifune's Toranaga brought the passion and love-of-life spirit to his character that I found in the book, and Sakai was perfect as (to western eye's at least) the loathsome Yabu. And I enjoyed the portrayals of Mariko and Omi much more that I am in the older version. I'll be interested in your take after you get to see the 80s movie.
One other thought... the 80s version was filmed in almost constant sunlight, while so much of this show is filmed with grey, overcast skies. I didn't remember that until I went back and watched the older version, but that may be a part of why I'm not enjoying it as much.
one issue i have with this is that you say the rest of the crew of "de liefde" eventually went free, that is not true and that also comes back to the interogation of Adams, it wasnt just adams that was being interogated.
There was also the 2nd mate of "de liefde" jan joosten van Lodensteyn who was also being interogated alongside Adams and was also made a Samurai by Ieyasu after years of service and his name was changed to Yayōsu and he was also not allowed to leave Japan just like Adams, Lodensteyn became the main advisor on trade and economics to Ieyasu and was also instrumental in setting up the red seal trade.
Due to Lodensteyn being protestant like Adams and the Dutch when they arrived not being interested in converting but rather just trading unlike the Portuguese it ensured that during the time that Japan closed itself off from the rest of the world that the Dutch were still allowed to trade with Japan.
the Yaesu part of Tokyo is named after Lodensteyn due to it being the place his old home was located and there is still a statue of him located there in the Yaesu underground mall in Tokyo station.
Read the book 3 times and watched the original mini series twice. I have seen pictures of Toranaga played by the actor in the new series. I guarantee no one can play Toranaga like the legendary Toshiro Mifune, in the original series
I'm gonna have to try and watch it!
This new version is rubbish.
You will be pleasantly surprised. The great Toshiro Mifune is not the only superb Japanese actor.
@brianholly3555 I agree. The woman who played mariko did a superb job of conveying the way of Japanese Zen, her conviction in her European faith whilst maintaining feminity. They made the period very believable. I don't understand why Chamberlain gets so much grief. He's light years ahead of the new guy although the cast is only as good as the screen writing
@@matthillard9363 Sorry, but I much prefer the new guy. I never found Chamberlain convincing in the role.
Ieyasu did not just managed to make daimyos in Mitsunari's service switch by promising things. Few powerful damyos disliked him intensely. As it is said in the Tv series, Mitsunari was a bureaucrat. Some who disliked him were generals. Key was Hideaki who had 15, 000 under him. Others defectors only had small numbers (max 3000) under each of them. Also, they were using plenty of guns by that time.
In the Richard Chamberlain miniseries the politics of the regency is very much simplified. The issues are very much Toranaga vs Ishido. The presence of other regents, most particularly Christian regents, is very much glossed over. The novel maps somewhat more closely to the actual events, and the new series does the same.
My friends were all excited by the early 1980's mini series and didn't stop talking about it. When I started to watch the series, though, as much as I liked the cast, story and production values, there was one thing that made it impossible for me to continue watching it. Every time the Japanese were about to appear, the music was da-da-dada-dum, pretty exactly the same as was always used in the Westerns when the "Indians" appeared. I had read Shogun and everything I could get my hands on by James Clavell so I was emotionally invested in Shogun. Yet that persistent 'uh-oh, here comes the Indians' music trivialized to me what had been done to the reality Blackthorne was facing and was going to face throughout the series. Honestly, I found it racist and revolting, totally distracting and demeaning not only to the Japanese but also to Clavell's brilliant book. I got through perhaps the third episode, and then gave it up in disgust. I just couldn't watch it. My hopes are far higher for this new series. Time to get Hulu!
It's only the beginning so it makes sense Yoshii Toranaga is quite reserved
Oda Nobunaga (Kipposhi), Toyotomi Hideyoshi (Kinoshita Tōkichirō) & Tokugawa Ieyasu (Matsudaira Takechiyo )
These three were the iconic trio who brought about the unification of Japan in the Azuchi-Momoyama Period (Sengoku Period)
Its so popular is modern pop culture, movies, dramas, games and anime.
You know they can do a season 2 but it would be have to be a different time period like 1579 when oda Oda Nobunaga and Tokugawa met Yasuke.
Damn it I guess I'll have to come back... one day
I read the entire series by James Clavell. And I saw the original mini series, Shogun. I enjoyed the character, Yabu?, he was unlikeable yet true to his samurai code in his own way. Perhaps the most human of the characters in his flaws.
I don't have a subscription so I may not ever watch this version. Read the series. It's great.
This drama correctly represents Japanese culture. Past Hollywood productions were terrible...for example, Last Samurai. The scene where Tom Cruise meets the Emperor was shot in a small temple. However, the Emperor's castle at that time was the second largest in the world in history. Photographing a gigantic 8000ha castle at a small temple...😊
Watch the original series! It's a masterpiece and it respects the book more, having Clavell, not his daughter as one of its consultants.
Cover the leper regent. After Ishido then Marika. Great videos thank you
i was so confused as no one called the guy tokugawa
Late names of rulers when they change their names afterwards. Kind of like chinese emperors.
i see@@Kogasengaha_Hishoshi
So far I am enjoying this and it seems to be a lot like the eighties series. As of right not Chamberlin still seems to be my favorite.
Is it just me, but ain´t the actor playing Blackthorne strange looking? it´s something about his eyes and his face, same expressions no matter what happends. The show is epic otherwise :)
Oh! I get to be that guy! The "Iyasu" is throwing me off 😅 Correct pronunciation is something more like long-e, long-a, then the yasu. The "i" and the "e" are both pronounced in the name.
Now, if you'll all excuse me, I have a very exciting party to attend, where I'm assured that I will be the guest of honor. 🤓
I tried listening to different pronunciations of it and so many were different so it was hard to gauge! But thanks for the heads up, i'll remember that for next time!
Americans do not watch these caring about history but the action and fighting. Everything else seems to fill in according to the person. For instance I loved The Last Samurai with Tom Cruise. I also watched Shogun back in the eighties 2 times and loved them all. I do need a story I can't just go with a lot of noise and karate like the fighting just for movement and yelling. I need some kind of plot.
Bulllllllshit, at least in my case
Can't wait to see Kato Kiyomasa bring the thunder down on the western armies.
think Robert Baratheon in his prime wielding the hammer. The man is awe inspiring, a Japanese Spartan if there ever was one. Dude was nuts.
Those scenes are gonna be mad! I feel like the battles are gonna look so good/well choreographed!
Well looking at Toranaga crest looks like Tokugawa crest and Taiko obviously Hideyoshi Toyotomi and Ishido probably Mitsunari Ishida, maybe ? Eastern army vs Western army
the 1980 version is more loyal to the book . I love the 80's version way better
Fact
The original was great, but sadly as a viewer when Marico. Died. I saw a broken man. And I think we all wanted a different story. Of them ending up together. It became a sad, series. With little glimmer. Think that's the sad part, when in reality it's simular to history
It's a very good series although I like the original better.
That's fair!
The new Shogun series is not based on the previous miniseries, it's based on the book. Why did you say it's based on the miniseries? The producers beg to differ.
Not even close to the book. The first episode is so far removed from the book they may as well haven't read it
the 80s version is loyal to the book not this version at all
5:30, again MAJOR Spoilers if you had not read the book and don’t want to be spoiled. In the book, at the end, Toranaga admitted that he needed a good friend and is doing everything to keep him in Japan cause he dare not trust his own kind, even his family. I have no doubt Iyeasu did the same with William since a man of his stature and power can’t trust anyone but a Western “barbarian”? Yes, he can.
Why the pictures of Takeda Shingen???
why would you spoil such a good story
It's amazing. IRL - Iyeasu was the villain that they were painting "Ishido" on the show to be. But because he was Sekigahara's victor, and his clan ruled Japan up until the Meiji period - most modern Japanese pop culture media paint him as the golden boy.
Granted his efforts did end the Sengoku era of war - but he wasnt at all the noble and altruistic hero that most modern interpretations paint him to be.
How about discussing the "behind the scenes" of this movie which was mainly 90% filmed in Vancouver, Canada and only 10% filmed in Japan? :)
This is because of the Covid-19.
COVID 19
I heard Season 2 is being filmed on the same location. Why not Japan still? @@tier1flyer680
Where is the Thornbirds
You know that the history is quite uninteresting when it comes to local political dispute between the regent lords of japan. What made this much more interesting is the fact that during this time weather they care or not, the moment the Japanese learn that they are but one of many countries that are "Possessed" indirectly by the Spaniards and the Portuguese in the international trade war against the British empire. Also the fact that the Spaniard and the Portuguese decided to place the head of a nation with people who are devout to the catholic as a figurehead.
While missionaries and the slave trade are paired, it's unnatural that the drama doesn't feature the African-slaves taken by Portuguese, Dutch and English. Many Samurai were appalled by the slave trade and wrote in their diaries; "women and children were stripped naked, chained around their necks, and crammed into ships tightly packed. From the ships, one hears constant wailing and screams all day and night. This is the hell." Hideyoshi(Taiko) was outraged by these reports and banished the Christians.
そのような事実はありません
Any country/ people who in 2024 still slaughter whales and dolphins shouldn’t be glamorized but shamed and embarrassed
Would like to know the history on mariko
I've got a video on the channel on here. It's also in the playlist too!
Ieyasu is EE-YEH-YA-S not EH-AH-SOO.
I love your voice.
More videos on shogum
Got more on the way!
The 80's series was better to this point. This updated version of has many high points. 80's version is seen from the total vision center of Blackthorn. The book has many point of view characters. New version looks better. It has a real and used feeling. The original broke ground filming in Japan everything was built new in traditional fashion. Every thing being new creates an unreal reality. From the cast it is in fair to compare the cast. The new one has Very good to great actors. The 80's has Legendary actors: Toshiro Mifune; and John Rhys Davies. To this point it is acceptable and it included the Diving teacher from the books which was excluded from the novel. It is holding up on a high bar. The Bar is high. The bar is not so high for Taipan, a little higher for Noble House and King Rat. Gaijin and Whirlwind have not been adapted.
Check out " the legend and butterfly ".. great movie about Oda Nobunaga.
I'll add that to my list! Thanks for the recc
Novels are unpopular in Japan.
This show is not nearly as good as the original. Frankie Sakai's portrayal of Yabu was a lot better than this version and the same goes for Yoko Shimada and Toshiro Mifune.The acting and screen play was so much better. And the actor that is playing blackthorne is terrible in my opinion.
Totally agree. Mariko doesn't have that femine beaty portrayed by the original actress. Visually stunning but they have butchered the book and toranaga is a weakling. The 80s guy nailed it
Hiroyuki Sanada is excellent but he is no Toshiro Mifune
Yooehdaaaaa
Pero BAKIT Toranaga ang name ng bida ?? Hindi Tokugawa ?
First off you’re completely wrong about your historical intro. Shogun is a work of historical fiction. The real Tokugawa Ieyasu began his rule in 1603 he was an ally of Oda Nobunaga before his death and Hideyoshi rise to power during the Sengoku period. The major battles included Battle of Anegawa, battle of Tenmokuzan, battle of Yamasaki where Hideyoshi avenged the death of his lord Oda becoming the most powerful Daimyo in Japan. After the failed invasion of Korea and death of Hideyoshi, the council of five elders appointed to rule until his heir came of age, Tokugawa being the most powerful daimyo. However, Ieyasu had no intention of relinquishing his power to the other warlords culminating in the final Battle of Sekigahara, where Hideaki famously switched sides resulting in a total Tokugawa victory. None of the battles you mentioned are even relevant, they were simply the Five Elders positioning their forces between Ieyasu’s armies before the actual battle.
You should read the book. The show depicts the book to a tee. Very rare.
NOT READ THE BOOK!? Do your research.
I wouldn't describe it as being based on the mini series, which was based on the book. This is a better adaptation of the book and takes nothing from the 1980 adaptation
Wrong on the better adaptation. Read the book again and watch the original series! This remake skips important events, rushes others and even changes so many events that were based on those skipped events that it becomes nonsensical. Also changes order in which events happen, making things confusing. There's 0 chemistry between Mariko and Blackthorne, no sepukku in the pit, almost no Buntaro scenes from the book, characters are just caricatural archetypes (besides Yabu, Toranaga and Omi, who show a bit of depth), Rodrigues' and Father Alvito's nationalities are reversed and they are easily forgettable, Blackthorne's crew's stories, while not that many in the book, are skipped in the new remake and many more "creative licences" taken that makes this show hard to watch and understand for new viewers and infuriating for book and original mini series' fans.
Really tired of old fans, pretending like they know what new viewers think and speak for them. Nobody care about you opinion, go read the book 7th time and jerk off at it, bruh.
It does not follow the book. The 1980 TV show was better . This new show is just better to look at .
You better read the book and then make video about subject.
Meriko please
*Mariko
I thought this was about the Tattoo of Austwitz?
I maybe in the minority but I sided with the western army in the samurai warriors.
The more i look at the Anjin, the more he looks like a dog to me
Merico!
Assuming you mean mariko, she’s a babe
sadly the actress that played her in the 80s version passed away in real life a few years ago. I loved her too . I thought she was amazing and so beautiful as a teen i was blown away by her. @@Man_fay_the_Bru
Maybe you should have watched the old one first...before trying to give an "Explaination"
The 1980s show was long drawn out..one annoying thing about it when it first came out it did not have subtitles for when the Japanese were speaking so you didn't know exactly what was going on.
3 words to summarize both of these in realife. Tokugawa Ieyasu Paranoid, Greedy, Cunning. Ishida Mitsunari Honourable, Loyal, Overconfident. Dont like how the show is picturing Ishido, I get its a show but cmon. Doing Ishida Mitsunari dirty
It's interesting! During researching I saw that he was kind of seen as a bit of a laughing stock in the history books, but over time he's become more respected and if as many people didn't betray him things could have been different
Tokugawa also barley helped with Korea which lead to imbalance of power, which swayed the lords to switch sides more easily. Closing an entire country just cause of a personal vendetta aint wisdom if you ask me & we both know what happend to Hideyori. Well afterall Meiji restoration happend which lead to western army victory in the end luckily otherwise we would have had 2 china. Ill give one thing to tokogawa, they became more enlightened with what it means to be Japanese.
That's why they changed their names though, so they could be liberal with the characterization. Had the writers (and Clavell) claimed to depict actual historical figures, I'd have an issue with mischaracterization too, but Ishido isn't Ishida and Toranaga isn't Tokugawa, nor are they one on one copies, so I'd say that their character being different is perfectly fine.
@@easternlights3155 yeaa i agree with you which why i started with in realife & ended with i get its a show, its just alot of rewriting history thats going on in modern filmaking/documentaries which i dislike cause they have done it to my culture & presented it as facts, but this was 4 years ago so people were like so what? its "white people" so im quick to point out historical points. But yea this show is not presenting itself as 100% accurate, which was the point of the vid which why it caught my eye. it was not meant to criticize the contentcreator or the show im enjoying it, ever since i learned how Japan formed i have always seen Tokogawa as a lesser scheming man of Toyotomi which stole his work from his son. He was not content with his blood being Shogun which makes him even less likeable. His life was being a bouncer for Oda then Toyotomi then all the sudden hes the CEO cause he didnt wanna help in Korea :D
I saw Mitsunari was so strict (even with himself), too loyalty and he didnt have good (also ruined) relationships with many people, especially Toyotomi loyalist. Ieyasu is more a man who know how to win any daimyo at heart well.
Bah these RUclips videos are so badly made and hard to follow. Am probably not die hard enough to do this to myself
The made for TV miniseries from 1980 is straight garbage. Please read the book first. The book is a masterpiece, and this new FX series is based on it, not the 1980 series (there are already scenes in the FX series that appeared in the books and didn't appear in the miniseries).
Shogun is an overrated show 👀
Another White guy is the hero it seems in this show, I watched 3 episodes and that's enough for me, sick of the White Ego Hollywood has.
stop being a fuckwit.. Ahoya!!
what a jerk . there would be NO blacks back then doing this so what the heck are u talking about ????. they are Japanese not white . you are nuts
this is based on FACT not fiction
@@puffyjo then that is my fault, ty
They ruined it made it woke or no?
Not any signs of that yet, through episode 3, all good
There's nothing woke about it.
@@eodyn7 cool
Hiroyuki wouldn't do something disgracful such as that lol Is everything just woke to think about for you?
@@Kogasengaha_Hishoshi Well its on the Disney Channel, so it's a legitimate question. Everything they make is Woke AF. This must an exception. Don't get your knickers in a twist, you touchy little fart sniffer.
The show is doing a good job as making him cunning like little finger all be it more honorable.
Very true!