8:31 Viktor's philosophy reminds me of the Buddhist quote "Desire is the root of all suffering". Which doesn't mean that we should not desire or change our lives, just that we should accept what cannot be changed and take ownership of what we can.
Man, you have no idea how validating it is to see that _someone_ understands Viktor’s arc. If hear one more “BuT hE’s JuSt UlTrOn” I’m going to scream. Viktor’s arc is actually the most consistent and compelling (up there with Jinx) in the whole series and is entirely, as you say, the result of well-intentioned human greed. Far better than “I saw the internet for 5 seconds and now all of humanity needs to die”.
The only thing that seemed weird to me was how seemingly easily he was convinced and the whole viktor from the future thing felt like a plot convenience. But yea aside from that I love Viktor he is one of the best characters
@@HormigacronopioIt seemed to me that Victor could only be convinced by himself, and the alternate-timeline anomaly bomb was the only thing sufficiently powerful to break him from the thrall of the hex-core sufficiently to take notice of his own argument. In fact, while the actual convincing happened quickly in the moment, it was clear that a whole lot of painstaking time magic manipulation and alternative timelines had been experimented with to set up the conditions for the argument to be effective. So, the convincing didn't take much time *in the moment* but it took a whole lot of effort, and this seemed to be communicated effectively.
@pinealservo yeah i guess thats true. I still think they should have given Jayce and Viktor's arcs more development. Like 3 more episodes would have been great for the story
@@Hormigacronopio yeah, everyone needed a little more time to let their arcs fully resolve. That being said, I still really like what the writers did as a whole.
I'm with you, every time someone says 'they dumped out all the characters to instead have a big meaningless Marvel fight' something breaks a little inside of me, because all the driving forces in that fight are established characters with established motives clashing over their needs and beliefs and ideologies. If you hear some people talk, it's like they haven't been paying the slightest attention to Viktor and Jayce as characters, and then were surprised that the story turned out to be about them, too.
I agree with the video itself, I personally really liked Viktor's arc. However, for me, the problem isn't his arc in isolation but the fact that it consequentially shifted the focus away from the buildup of s1 ending. The raw act of rebellion by Jinx was supposed to shake the relationship between the Undercity and Piltover forever. And it did, for the first two acts at least. The conflict between Piltover and Zaun was never the main focus of the show, it was always about Jinx and Vi. However, these characters are intrinsically tied to the Piltover-Zaun conflict, the very conflict that was forever altered by Jinx’s actions. I wasn’t expecting the show to solve generations of class disparity in just 9 episodes, but after the first act, the story gradually gives less and less relevance to Piltover and Zaun. This isn’t inherently bad, but as a natural consequence, it cheapens the arcs of characters whose stories are deeply intertwined with that conflict. Vi and Caitlyn stop having both a personal and ideological conflict, now is just Jinx. Jinx and Sevika started bonding through Silco, the literal face of Zaun, and yet stop interacting altogether by the 3rd act. Even Viktor’s story suffers from this shift. His disability was always tied to Piltover's exploitation of Zaun, dumping toxic waste into the Undercity. Personally, I loved Season 2, but I can’t help imagining how much better it could have been with an additional act and more focus on Piltover and Zaun. That conflict naturally enriches characters who are already amazing and nuanced on their own.
The main focus is Vi and Jinx and Jayce and Viktor They are presented in opposite sides of the story from the s1 Just Jayce and Viktor get more impportant arcs in s2 for all the hextech thing
Just as the two cores (Vi & Jinx, Jayce & Viktor) were placed as opposites, in the first season the focus of the finale was greater on the sisters, in the second the focus was greater on the 2 friends. I disagree a little with what you said, for me, taking the sisters out of this whole rebellion between Piltover and Zaun and focusing on the most important thing (their relationship) was the right move. That scene with Vander and them was incredible, and it was possible because they didn't focus so much on the city, but on the people. It was also good to increase Jayce and Viktor's focus because from the beginning their goal was to influence everyone, to give Hextech to everyone. So for me it made sense and it was better, but that's just my opinion. (And Jayce's dialogue with Viktor was certainly the highlight of the end)
@@danielv4793Ahh, I definitely get what you mean. Imo Jinx and Vi have always been the central focus, which doesn't make other characters less important. But I can see why Jayce and Viktor could be seen that way. I think, however, my point still stands, Viktor and Jayce too are intrinsically woven into the conflict of Piltover and Zaun. After all, Viktor's whole story has been shaped by the toxic waste thrown into the Undercity. While Jayce has always been the political side of the duo.
@@invernofuyu2542 Deff see your point now. However, I think that kinda leads to lazy writing, don't you think? Writers shouldn't just take their characters out of the story to resolve their conflict. Their conflict should intertwine with the story, both being worked out together. That's kinda what made s1 so magical. Even if the characters were the focus, you couldn't really separate the Piltover/Zaun conflict from the characters. As you said, it gave us some great scenes, but I don't think we needed to completely leave the conflict behind for them. I won't comment on the last paragraph cause as I said, I did love Viktor's(and Jayce's) arc. I hope this doesn't come across as me not liking the finale, I loved it, but I can't help but wonder how complex it could've been. We could still have the hextech conflict, but instead of just noxus attacking Piltover-Zaun, imagine all of these different factions clashing together.
@@invernofuyu2542they is no such things as "two cores". Just a single essence and everything written that adds to that essence. Vi and jinx were representative of that essence with jinx being set up as the antagonist and vi the one to face. Even if I were to buy into your false opinion that the story wanted to focus on another core. It's still poor as shit storytelling how the story just suddenly moves from zaun vs piltover to avengers rubbish. Do you know how jarring that shit is?
Viktor's entire motivation for the show is love, people, for the pursuit of knowledge, and the possibility of making the world a better place. As a villain, this doesn't change, when he sees Jayce again he expresses that he's pleased to see him despite them being enemies at the moment and allows him to argue his point. The Night King shows up, can somehow withstand dragon fire, but then gets killed by predictions of a psychic.
Ah thankyou for putting into words what I felt about Viktors arc! Also I would like to point out the beauty of Ekko being a wild card popping up in the final fight, because that's what he's always been in Viktor and Jayces story. Remember if it weren't for Ekko, the botched robbery would never have happened and Viktor and Jayce would have never met. I just love that this random street kids actions caused both the start and end of Hextec. Viktor has never met Ekko and Jayce barely knows him, yet without him their story could never have happened at all.
The problem isnt viktor being a typical big bad becos he is a well written one. The problem is he is the big bad that resolves the story. He felt more like a tool used to resolve the piltover vs zaun by uniting them against him.
Gonna be so real with ya; Ambessa is the big bad of season 2, not Viktor. Viktor is someone who gets lost along the way and becomes a tool for Ambessa. Shes literally pushing to create him and her army in order to try and kill the Black Rose. It’s the entire reason the Black Rose takes Mel and continue to try and go after her, because they think she’s making a weapon (Viktor/Hextech) to attack them, Mel at the end blames Ambessa for her ambition, nobody legitimately blames Viktor at all LMFAO. And she’s someone who gets set up to do so in season 1, and they give her a very well established villain arc.
WHY is this a problem? That was my favorite element of the show! The simple fact that they finnaly got to a point, where they pushed their opposites into the background, because they wanted to survive, and this forged them together in the end. Political dramas are not really my thing, and I didn't want Arcane to become the next Game of Thrones, House of Cards or something like that. Seeing people complaining so hard, because they were much more interested in Piltover and Zaun throwing sh*t at each other for multiple seasons is infuriating and a half... 😡🤬
@@staLkerhuPlus it was so well foreshadowed in act 2. Zaun was all over the place with all kinds of different factions but united to resist Piltover, then they both had to unite against Noxus and Viktor
@@staLkerhu People view it as a problem because the show deliberately illustrated the *why* behind that divide, a power imbalance wherein Piltover holds institutional power over Zaun and uses that power to inflict suffering. Seeing that plotline resolved in a way that doesn't solve or address that, with the closest thing being *one* seat at the table, feels like a frustrating centristy copout. Which I don't think makes the show bad, mind you? It's clearly been the theme from the start, that revolutionary ideals harm the people you care about and should be abandoned (see: Vander, Silco). But I can't fault anyone who gets frustrated with it.
Amazing analysis! I was worried when I saw the thumbnail (showing Viktor and the Night King and implying they're the exact same), but I was pleasantly surprised. I'm glad you provided a nuanced take on Arcane's ending and how it's thematically aligns with the show's themes (human desire, pride, greed, wrath, etc. leads to human conflict). You also gave me a lot to think about that I didn't consider before. ^_^
I really like the first half of Arcane S2 dealing with Noxus, or rather Ambessa specifically, overtaking Piltover's military and further devolving the conflict with Zaun. I also really like the second half of Arcane s2 and Viktor's arc. The initial effects of the Hexcore on his mind could have perhaps been explored a bit more thoroughly or less subtly, but his resolution with Jayce is cool and even the fact that Hextech inherently being bad sort of destroys a part of what made season 1 so interesting is handled well by giving way to a further divide of the ideals of Viktor and Jayce that started in S1, literally made worse by their creation and the effects it has on them. I'm just not sure I like both of these things _together_ in the same show that is already kind of crammed for space and screentime with having so many arcs going around. They feel a bit narratively and thematically disjointed. Or perhaps just jarringly not as coordinated and harmonized as they were in Season 1.
Viktor is a great character, and I can’t really dislike him, even if I wanted to. I absolutely love this dude, and I’m glad the show made him turn into himself from LoL, like holy sh!t.
Finally, thank you. Viktor was never the bad guy. He literally asked Jayce to kill him back in the alternative universe, plus that we can see his noble reasons very clearly in his sacrifice at the end. He did not lose his humanity to hextech because we can see his intention to save Vander (and everyone who he healed) is very sincere. He may have been a little absorbed by hextech in the war with Ambessa, but that didn't last long (i mean his sacrifice in the end)
@@littlemissfakepersonality9248 I have a theory about the hex gems, if what Viktor said about destiny with Singed is true, and the origin of the Hex gems tie to the Arcane, a sentient force of nature, each hex gem might contain an out come and Jayce's hammer from the other universe is what cause the same event to unfolded , Ekko's device cancel it out as both device disappeared at the end...
I don't really like the "misunderstood villain" archetype to be honest. Every villain nowadays seems to be written to be relatable and have reasons for being evil. Sometimes, people are evil bc they're evil. Sometimes, it is better having a pure villain, like a force of nature itself, no emotion, no reasoning, just evil. The way it was written in GoT (show; we don't know how it ends in the book yet) was shit. The way LotR did it, was good. (Sauron in the books, not the crappy amazon show).
Well put! I see many people not being satisfied with the pacing or the direction (becoming a larger conflict rather than focusing on the character conflicts and not having more seasons or acts), but I think the lack of criticism on the ending itself is indicative of how the writers actually planned out their story and characters! Cuz I know as I watched Act 1 and 2, I was really wondering how they would end Season 2 with Act 3. But they did it!
This was a great video. Plus, the story isn’t over yet. There are going to be new shows that will follow different characters in the many locations from League of Legends. So, even if people found season 2 lacking, it’s not the end and maybe it could all be recontextualised when they introduce answers to the many subtle details sprinkled throughout Arcane.
for me i think they both have the same problem, that is the otherworldly threat undermining the politics and making everyone join together. that kind of writing is an issue on both shows, it's just that arcane does it better
I remember before S8 came out there were so many theories about what the Night King’s motivations were. Him never having a clear motivation other than ‘I just love killing’ was yet another pitfall of S8. Along with the fact that despite being set up for SEVEN SEASONS, he’s unceremoniously killed in Episode 3 before he even reaches King’s Landing. By contrast Viktor works as the final villain, along with Ambessa, super well because he just takes his genuinely good intentions way too far. His motive is very clear and the setup for him being a villain was also there. In two seasons!! Fucking dumb and dumber. Every time I think of Game of Thrones Season 8 I get angry
I disagree with the original poster. People think being "bad" is irredeemable yet the same people also claim to faithful christians or whatever other religion which ALL (perhaps except Satanism) involve sacred texts of redemption/ forgiveness and second chances. Villains who are just evil for evil sake are the DEFINITION of blank TOOLS who purpose is no different than a hammer in a tool shed which has no intrinsic motivation, thoughtless babble with ZERO character arc and ZERO insight to the character straight up monotone 1 dimensionality just to hammer nails because that's its sole primary purpose. Such characters 👆 add no real value or enrichment to the story perhaps as henchmen or redshirts but NOT as the primary arch-villain. Thank goodness Viktor is NOT this. The story is a perfect tale for Viktor whereby he witnessed what his ambitions achieved [paraphrasing] "After i had solved all equations, what was left were fields of dreamless solitude" which was basically the opposite effect (basically caused the apocalypse) of what he originally believed so he took measures to correct his mistake using Jayce as the 'silver bullet' to stop himself in the past. Viktor saw himself as the hero of his own story until he witnessed the err of his ambitions in the future. Even Agent Smith from The MATRIX franchise had meaning and motivations to his actions. I am so grateful that the detractors who are against the writing of Viktor and Ambessa did NOT write Arcane.
I whole heartedly agree with all of the points in this comment, but I would like to clarify that Satanism (at least in most of it's forms) is quite literally ALL about forgiveness and second chances. Satanism is largely categorized into two groups (theistic and atheistic), with theistic believers literally worshipping the biblical Devil, and atheistic followers not actually believing that Satan exists but rather they worship what he represents: Materialism and change. Basically, they believe that it's important to look at yourself and recognize that you have the ability to change for either the better or worse, and that the choice is entirely up to you. They believe that the true beauty in life comes from the ability to CHOOSE happiness, no matter how dark life can be. The history of Satanism is actually very interesting, as it started out simply being a rejection of Christianity, but definitely evolved into it's own thing that ironically is more inclusive in some aspects than Christianity is. Not to say it's BETTER than Christianity, as personally I think they're both equally invalid, but it is interesting.
Villains of such a type can still work perfectly fine, just as any type of idea can. Perhaps nobody is born evil in this world but there are plenty of examples for ruthlessly terrible people whose actions can be considered nothing less than horrific. Chrollo, while he has far more depth than this, slaughters a whole clan solely because their eyes looked *pretty*. They're thieves, so it fits their Characters, but it still remains a purely evil decision. Entirely done for its sake. Hisoka is another good example. There are still reasons and depth to his actions, but the all the suffering he causes is completely avoidable, committed out of his hedonistic desires. That's not even mentioning the...other aspects of the guy that punctuate the fact he's horrible, but point is, that's still evil for its sake. While I don't appreciate how Jujutsu Kaisen progressed its story, Mahito is another good Character that should be brought up. His very nature is born of Humanity's hatred for each other and the whole thing hinges on that idea of a Curse. As an ending example, while I've yet to read the Novel, Judge Holden could be perceived as another good example of a pure evil Character playing into the Story and its themes. So no, they CAN contribute to the Story. What you want - and its something many of them *do* have to make things more interesting - are ideals and explanations to why they are this way. That's perfectly captured in Chrollo, who has a tragic reason for starting the Phantom Troupe and reasons for treading this path. Sometimes, there isn't even the last part there, and yet they still work. Hisoka and Judge Holden can be put into this category, they simply exist and still drive the plot forward. So, no, pure evil Villains (Or those who commit actions that are pure evil, if you want to put it that way) can still contribute heavily to a Story.
I disagree If sauron was not pure evil, LotR have less nuanse, less conflict because if Sauron isnt pure evil you can negociate with him, all the sacrifices, all the falls, all the tempention, all the rigthtiousness have less impact because they dont figth against a pure font of corruption and evil superior to every mortal Some stories need a evil, pure grey have nothing if all is grey, but if coexist with the black and white you can make more tones If you want to see a true evil character in arcane, look at Singed or Silko, but Ambessa i think enter in more evil to neutral area Sorry for my bad english
i personally don't understand how viktor came to the conclusion that people need to have their free will taken away in order for the world to be a better place. it sounds like the mindset of a god or robot. viktor was compassionate for a long time, and even with the hexcore embedded in him, he still wanted to help people.
I dislike the end of Viktor's ark, not because he's one-dimensional or badly developed, but because his turn was way too predictable from the day of progress speech, and the threat of assimilation along with the Noxian invasion presents a very, veeery convenient conclusion to the social conflicts in the city. It's like the story went back to the vote to give Zaun independence and said "actually yeah, we will just make peace without properly dealing with our prejudice" and Viktor was a major reason why it went down like this.
The problem is that he is practically invincible and wants to save everyone which he could do easily by reaching the hex core with his robots. But instead he chooses to let hundreds die for what? A distraction he doesn't need.
I just wish arcane fleshed out the story more. Idk if Netflix forced them to condense everything to two seasons or if it was originally planned that way. But man i wish we got more.
If i would have a niccle for each time i see a arcane vs games of thrones comparison i would've got 2 niccles which isn't a lot but it's weird it happend twice
3:50 I actually love that you recognize that it was a worthwhile aversion from the political story to focus on rounding out the characters. I’ve always said that arcane has an amazing plot but it’s such a character driven show there isn’t anything that happens that isn’t a direct result of an act of love or greed from one of the characters
Biggest issues were the unnatural change of character, rushed pacing, and it felt like it needed another season to flesh things out. only masterpiece/great episode of season 2 is obviously episode 7
Yeah, Sauron 100% ruined Lord of the rings trilogy where he was pure obvious evil, and 100% gapped Rings of power series. 😂😂😂 Bro, it's just bad writing and directing that's all. P. S. it's just a tick for the name of the video
I personally don’t like the invasion in arcane, because i honestly believe this season should have been about an uprising, it should have been piltover and zaun against each other, but the show dropped the ball and just gave us some bs end of the world stuff
exactly like the whole conflict with the chem barons,jinx becoming a revolutionary idol,meeting isha and how those two things conflict-all of that should've been what the season was about hell we could've done way more with sevika,too instead of the messy conflict that was set up throughout all of s1 we just cram in ambessa,the black rose and the machine herald out of literally nowhere
@ when you show revolutionary imagery, and revolutionary movements in a story of class struggle, building up to a rebellion is the most obvious direction, that’s what they were building up Also a villain taking people’s free will and characters throwing down their differences for the to fight an objectively evil bad guy is also hyper-predictable and have been seen ad nauseum, what is fresh isn’t the story beats but the actual execution, humans have ran out of “fresh” stories and we simply created “fresh” ways to tell those same old stories
@mitab1 The story they went with Viktor taking free will is far LESS "hyper-predictable" than the resistance story. There are incredibly much more resistance stories than free will conqueror stories.🤷
Great video, good points. However, I've noticed you stumble over your words a little, which makes some sentences a bit difficult to understand. There's an easy fix though, just go over the audio and retake the less coherent parts. You can even have someone go over it for you. No need to slow down or change your style, just make the audio a little clearer. Personally I was able to understand you just fine tho
But isn't the point of asoiaf that all of that personal shit and politics meaningless in the face of the end of the world. Aside from the how Bad the Show handled it
Exactly. The point is that the petty squabbles and power plays made by the nobles are inherently useless in the grand scheme of things and that they’d probably still be fighting each other while ignoring the actual threat that looms over them up north. In a way, showcasing how human conflict and greed blinds people to what actually matters in the end. Even if the show was written terribly, ASOIAF (the books, at least) have that understanding.
great video. great arguments. i put dislike becouse you talk too fast. English is not my first lenguage and it's hard for me to follow you ( i stopped at min 5). Hope you see this as a ''good critique'' becouse apart from that this is a great video
I think comparatively, season 2 is notably lacking in several aspects to season 1. Season 1 also had probably 3-4 years of writing before things were really set in stone once animation was locked in. AFAIK, they didn't even start season 2 until they saw the success of season 1, so it maybe had 2, and they were evidently limited to 2 seasons. I overall enjoyed it, but I can understand the issues people had, and I share some of them.
I saw somewhere that Arcane was written with 2 seasons in mind. Upon 2nd rewatch of the first season, I can truly see and appreciate the buildup for season 2. Most notably, how the Hex Core was evolved after Viktor poured his blood into it, forming the Arcane pattern that we see throughout S2. You could argue that they had to cut a lot of plot points in order to fit the whole S2 story in 9 episodes, but I am still very satisfied with the conclusion of Arcane.
@@shalom1523 I think it goes without saying that a LOT of people who saw season 1 did NOT rewatch the entire series when season 2 came out. To see someone else with a relatively positive opinion of the conclusion is pleasing.
8:31 Viktor's philosophy reminds me of the Buddhist quote "Desire is the root of all suffering". Which doesn't mean that we should not desire or change our lives, just that we should accept what cannot be changed and take ownership of what we can.
Man, you have no idea how validating it is to see that _someone_ understands Viktor’s arc. If hear one more “BuT hE’s JuSt UlTrOn” I’m going to scream. Viktor’s arc is actually the most consistent and compelling (up there with Jinx) in the whole series and is entirely, as you say, the result of well-intentioned human greed. Far better than “I saw the internet for 5 seconds and now all of humanity needs to die”.
The only thing that seemed weird to me was how seemingly easily he was convinced and the whole viktor from the future thing felt like a plot convenience. But yea aside from that I love Viktor he is one of the best characters
@@HormigacronopioIt seemed to me that Victor could only be convinced by himself, and the alternate-timeline anomaly bomb was the only thing sufficiently powerful to break him from the thrall of the hex-core sufficiently to take notice of his own argument.
In fact, while the actual convincing happened quickly in the moment, it was clear that a whole lot of painstaking time magic manipulation and alternative timelines had been experimented with to set up the conditions for the argument to be effective.
So, the convincing didn't take much time *in the moment* but it took a whole lot of effort, and this seemed to be communicated effectively.
@pinealservo yeah i guess thats true. I still think they should have given Jayce and Viktor's arcs more development. Like 3 more episodes would have been great for the story
@@Hormigacronopio yeah, everyone needed a little more time to let their arcs fully resolve. That being said, I still really like what the writers did as a whole.
I'm with you, every time someone says 'they dumped out all the characters to instead have a big meaningless Marvel fight' something breaks a little inside of me, because all the driving forces in that fight are established characters with established motives clashing over their needs and beliefs and ideologies. If you hear some people talk, it's like they haven't been paying the slightest attention to Viktor and Jayce as characters, and then were surprised that the story turned out to be about them, too.
I agree with the video itself, I personally really liked Viktor's arc. However, for me, the problem isn't his arc in isolation but the fact that it consequentially shifted the focus away from the buildup of s1 ending. The raw act of rebellion by Jinx was supposed to shake the relationship between the Undercity and Piltover forever. And it did, for the first two acts at least.
The conflict between Piltover and Zaun was never the main focus of the show, it was always about Jinx and Vi. However, these characters are intrinsically tied to the Piltover-Zaun conflict, the very conflict that was forever altered by Jinx’s actions. I wasn’t expecting the show to solve generations of class disparity in just 9 episodes, but after the first act, the story gradually gives less and less relevance to Piltover and Zaun. This isn’t inherently bad, but as a natural consequence, it cheapens the arcs of characters whose stories are deeply intertwined with that conflict. Vi and Caitlyn stop having both a personal and ideological conflict, now is just Jinx. Jinx and Sevika started bonding through Silco, the literal face of Zaun, and yet stop interacting altogether by the 3rd act. Even Viktor’s story suffers from this shift. His disability was always tied to Piltover's exploitation of Zaun, dumping toxic waste into the Undercity.
Personally, I loved Season 2, but I can’t help imagining how much better it could have been with an additional act and more focus on Piltover and Zaun. That conflict naturally enriches characters who are already amazing and nuanced on their own.
The main focus is Vi and Jinx and Jayce and Viktor
They are presented in opposite sides of the story from the s1
Just Jayce and Viktor get more impportant arcs in s2 for all the hextech thing
Just as the two cores (Vi & Jinx, Jayce & Viktor) were placed as opposites, in the first season the focus of the finale was greater on the sisters, in the second the focus was greater on the 2 friends. I disagree a little with what you said, for me, taking the sisters out of this whole rebellion between Piltover and Zaun and focusing on the most important thing (their relationship) was the right move. That scene with Vander and them was incredible, and it was possible because they didn't focus so much on the city, but on the people.
It was also good to increase Jayce and Viktor's focus because from the beginning their goal was to influence everyone, to give Hextech to everyone. So for me it made sense and it was better, but that's just my opinion. (And Jayce's dialogue with Viktor was certainly the highlight of the end)
@@danielv4793Ahh, I definitely get what you mean. Imo Jinx and Vi have always been the central focus, which doesn't make other characters less important. But I can see why Jayce and Viktor could be seen that way. I think, however, my point still stands, Viktor and Jayce too are intrinsically woven into the conflict of Piltover and Zaun. After all, Viktor's whole story has been shaped by the toxic waste thrown into the Undercity. While Jayce has always been the political side of the duo.
@@invernofuyu2542 Deff see your point now. However, I think that kinda leads to lazy writing, don't you think? Writers shouldn't just take their characters out of the story to resolve their conflict. Their conflict should intertwine with the story, both being worked out together. That's kinda what made s1 so magical. Even if the characters were the focus, you couldn't really separate the Piltover/Zaun conflict from the characters. As you said, it gave us some great scenes, but I don't think we needed to completely leave the conflict behind for them.
I won't comment on the last paragraph cause as I said, I did love Viktor's(and Jayce's) arc. I hope this doesn't come across as me not liking the finale, I loved it, but I can't help but wonder how complex it could've been. We could still have the hextech conflict, but instead of just noxus attacking Piltover-Zaun, imagine all of these different factions clashing together.
@@invernofuyu2542they is no such things as "two cores". Just a single essence and everything written that adds to that essence. Vi and jinx were representative of that essence with jinx being set up as the antagonist and vi the one to face.
Even if I were to buy into your false opinion that the story wanted to focus on another core. It's still poor as shit storytelling how the story just suddenly moves from zaun vs piltover to avengers rubbish. Do you know how jarring that shit is?
Viktor's entire motivation for the show is love, people, for the pursuit of knowledge, and the possibility of making the world a better place. As a villain, this doesn't change, when he sees Jayce again he expresses that he's pleased to see him despite them being enemies at the moment and allows him to argue his point. The Night King shows up, can somehow withstand dragon fire, but then gets killed by predictions of a psychic.
Ah thankyou for putting into words what I felt about Viktors arc!
Also I would like to point out the beauty of Ekko being a wild card popping up in the final fight, because that's what he's always been in Viktor and Jayces story. Remember if it weren't for Ekko, the botched robbery would never have happened and Viktor and Jayce would have never met.
I just love that this random street kids actions caused both the start and end of Hextec. Viktor has never met Ekko and Jayce barely knows him, yet without him their story could never have happened at all.
The problem isnt viktor being a typical big bad becos he is a well written one. The problem is he is the big bad that resolves the story. He felt more like a tool used to resolve the piltover vs zaun by uniting them against him.
It was a convenient way to unite them. I would have been interested to see what other options they considered to wrap up the story in season 2.
Gonna be so real with ya; Ambessa is the big bad of season 2, not Viktor. Viktor is someone who gets lost along the way and becomes a tool for Ambessa. Shes literally pushing to create him and her army in order to try and kill the Black Rose. It’s the entire reason the Black Rose takes Mel and continue to try and go after her, because they think she’s making a weapon (Viktor/Hextech) to attack them, Mel at the end blames Ambessa for her ambition, nobody legitimately blames Viktor at all LMFAO.
And she’s someone who gets set up to do so in season 1, and they give her a very well established villain arc.
WHY is this a problem? That was my favorite element of the show! The simple fact that they finnaly got to a point, where they pushed their opposites into the background, because they wanted to survive, and this forged them together in the end. Political dramas are not really my thing, and I didn't want Arcane to become the next Game of Thrones, House of Cards or something like that. Seeing people complaining so hard, because they were much more interested in Piltover and Zaun throwing sh*t at each other for multiple seasons is infuriating and a half... 😡🤬
@@staLkerhuPlus it was so well foreshadowed in act 2. Zaun was all over the place with all kinds of different factions but united to resist Piltover, then they both had to unite against Noxus and Viktor
@@staLkerhu People view it as a problem because the show deliberately illustrated the *why* behind that divide, a power imbalance wherein Piltover holds institutional power over Zaun and uses that power to inflict suffering. Seeing that plotline resolved in a way that doesn't solve or address that, with the closest thing being *one* seat at the table, feels like a frustrating centristy copout.
Which I don't think makes the show bad, mind you? It's clearly been the theme from the start, that revolutionary ideals harm the people you care about and should be abandoned (see: Vander, Silco). But I can't fault anyone who gets frustrated with it.
Amazing analysis! I was worried when I saw the thumbnail (showing Viktor and the Night King and implying they're the exact same), but I was pleasantly surprised. I'm glad you provided a nuanced take on Arcane's ending and how it's thematically aligns with the show's themes (human desire, pride, greed, wrath, etc. leads to human conflict).
You also gave me a lot to think about that I didn't consider before. ^_^
Close enough, welcome back schnee! Seriously though this video is great work
Schnee's not gone...is he? He hasn't uploaded very much on Arcane S2...
I really like the first half of Arcane S2 dealing with Noxus, or rather Ambessa specifically, overtaking Piltover's military and further devolving the conflict with Zaun.
I also really like the second half of Arcane s2 and Viktor's arc. The initial effects of the Hexcore on his mind could have perhaps been explored a bit more thoroughly or less subtly, but his resolution with Jayce is cool and even the fact that Hextech inherently being bad sort of destroys a part of what made season 1 so interesting is handled well by giving way to a further divide of the ideals of Viktor and Jayce that started in S1, literally made worse by their creation and the effects it has on them.
I'm just not sure I like both of these things _together_ in the same show that is already kind of crammed for space and screentime with having so many arcs going around. They feel a bit narratively and thematically disjointed. Or perhaps just jarringly not as coordinated and harmonized as they were in Season 1.
Viktor is a great character, and I can’t really dislike him, even if I wanted to. I absolutely love this dude, and I’m glad the show made him turn into himself from LoL, like holy sh!t.
bro , Viktor’s not evil, war was the real villain, Viktor was driven by the arcane AND his desperation in saving human’s flawed mind and connections …
Finally, thank you. Viktor was never the bad guy. He literally asked Jayce to kill him back in the alternative universe, plus that we can see his noble reasons very clearly in his sacrifice at the end. He did not lose his humanity to hextech because we can see his intention to save Vander (and everyone who he healed) is very sincere. He may have been a little absorbed by hextech in the war with Ambessa, but that didn't last long (i mean his sacrifice in the end)
@@littlemissfakepersonality9248 I have a theory about the hex gems, if what Viktor said about destiny with Singed is true, and the origin of the Hex gems tie to the Arcane, a sentient force of nature, each hex gem might contain an out come and Jayce's hammer from the other universe is what cause the same event to unfolded , Ekko's device cancel it out as both device disappeared at the end...
3:18 “Ambussing” 😭
I don't really like the "misunderstood villain" archetype to be honest. Every villain nowadays seems to be written to be relatable and have reasons for being evil. Sometimes, people are evil bc they're evil. Sometimes, it is better having a pure villain, like a force of nature itself, no emotion, no reasoning, just evil. The way it was written in GoT (show; we don't know how it ends in the book yet) was shit. The way LotR did it, was good. (Sauron in the books, not the crappy amazon show).
Well put! I see many people not being satisfied with the pacing or the direction (becoming a larger conflict rather than focusing on the character conflicts and not having more seasons or acts), but I think the lack of criticism on the ending itself is indicative of how the writers actually planned out their story and characters! Cuz I know as I watched Act 1 and 2, I was really wondering how they would end Season 2 with Act 3. But they did it!
This was a great video. Plus, the story isn’t over yet. There are going to be new shows that will follow different characters in the many locations from League of Legends.
So, even if people found season 2 lacking, it’s not the end and maybe it could all be recontextualised when they introduce answers to the many subtle details sprinkled throughout Arcane.
for me i think they both have the same problem, that is the otherworldly threat undermining the politics and making everyone join together. that kind of writing is an issue on both shows, it's just that arcane does it better
I remember before S8 came out there were so many theories about what the Night King’s motivations were. Him never having a clear motivation other than ‘I just love killing’ was yet another pitfall of S8. Along with the fact that despite being set up for SEVEN SEASONS, he’s unceremoniously killed in Episode 3 before he even reaches King’s Landing.
By contrast Viktor works as the final villain, along with Ambessa, super well because he just takes his genuinely good intentions way too far. His motive is very clear and the setup for him being a villain was also there. In two seasons!! Fucking dumb and dumber. Every time I think of Game of Thrones Season 8 I get angry
I disagree with the original poster. People think being "bad" is irredeemable yet the same people also claim to faithful christians or whatever other religion which ALL (perhaps except Satanism) involve sacred texts of redemption/ forgiveness and second chances.
Villains who are just evil for evil sake are the DEFINITION of blank TOOLS who purpose is no different than a hammer in a tool shed which has no intrinsic motivation, thoughtless babble with ZERO character arc and ZERO insight to the character straight up monotone 1 dimensionality just to hammer nails because that's its sole primary purpose.
Such characters 👆 add no real value or enrichment to the story perhaps as henchmen or redshirts but NOT as the primary arch-villain. Thank goodness Viktor is NOT this.
The story is a perfect tale for Viktor whereby he witnessed what his ambitions achieved [paraphrasing] "After i had solved all equations, what was left were fields of dreamless solitude" which was basically the opposite effect (basically caused the apocalypse) of what he originally believed so he took measures to correct his mistake using Jayce as the 'silver bullet' to stop himself in the past. Viktor saw himself as the hero of his own story until he witnessed the err of his ambitions in the future.
Even Agent Smith from The MATRIX franchise had meaning and motivations to his actions.
I am so grateful that the detractors who are against the writing of Viktor and Ambessa did NOT write Arcane.
I whole heartedly agree with all of the points in this comment, but I would like to clarify that Satanism (at least in most of it's forms) is quite literally ALL about forgiveness and second chances. Satanism is largely categorized into two groups (theistic and atheistic), with theistic believers literally worshipping the biblical Devil, and atheistic followers not actually believing that Satan exists but rather they worship what he represents: Materialism and change. Basically, they believe that it's important to look at yourself and recognize that you have the ability to change for either the better or worse, and that the choice is entirely up to you. They believe that the true beauty in life comes from the ability to CHOOSE happiness, no matter how dark life can be.
The history of Satanism is actually very interesting, as it started out simply being a rejection of Christianity, but definitely evolved into it's own thing that ironically is more inclusive in some aspects than Christianity is. Not to say it's BETTER than Christianity, as personally I think they're both equally invalid, but it is interesting.
Villains of such a type can still work perfectly fine, just as any type of idea can. Perhaps nobody is born evil in this world but there are plenty of examples for ruthlessly terrible people whose actions can be considered nothing less than horrific.
Chrollo, while he has far more depth than this, slaughters a whole clan solely because their eyes looked *pretty*. They're thieves, so it fits their Characters, but it still remains a purely evil decision. Entirely done for its sake.
Hisoka is another good example. There are still reasons and depth to his actions, but the all the suffering he causes is completely avoidable, committed out of his hedonistic desires. That's not even mentioning the...other aspects of the guy that punctuate the fact he's horrible, but point is, that's still evil for its sake.
While I don't appreciate how Jujutsu Kaisen progressed its story, Mahito is another good Character that should be brought up. His very nature is born of Humanity's hatred for each other and the whole thing hinges on that idea of a Curse.
As an ending example, while I've yet to read the Novel, Judge Holden could be perceived as another good example of a pure evil Character playing into the Story and its themes.
So no, they CAN contribute to the Story. What you want - and its something many of them *do* have to make things more interesting - are ideals and explanations to why they are this way. That's perfectly captured in Chrollo, who has a tragic reason for starting the Phantom Troupe and reasons for treading this path.
Sometimes, there isn't even the last part there, and yet they still work. Hisoka and Judge Holden can be put into this category, they simply exist and still drive the plot forward.
So, no, pure evil Villains (Or those who commit actions that are pure evil, if you want to put it that way) can still contribute heavily to a Story.
I disagree
If sauron was not pure evil, LotR have less nuanse, less conflict because if Sauron isnt pure evil you can negociate with him, all the sacrifices, all the falls, all the tempention, all the rigthtiousness have less impact because they dont figth against a pure font of corruption and evil superior to every mortal
Some stories need a evil, pure grey have nothing if all is grey, but if coexist with the black and white you can make more tones
If you want to see a true evil character in arcane, look at Singed or Silko, but Ambessa i think enter in more evil to neutral area
Sorry for my bad english
@@devoutrelic1228from where you get that definition of satanism?
I am curious
i personally don't understand how viktor came to the conclusion that people need to have their free will taken away in order for the world to be a better place. it sounds like the mindset of a god or robot. viktor was compassionate for a long time, and even with the hexcore embedded in him, he still wanted to help people.
I dislike the end of Viktor's ark, not because he's one-dimensional or badly developed, but because his turn was way too predictable from the day of progress speech, and the threat of assimilation along with the Noxian invasion presents a very, veeery convenient conclusion to the social conflicts in the city. It's like the story went back to the vote to give Zaun independence and said "actually yeah, we will just make peace without properly dealing with our prejudice" and Viktor was a major reason why it went down like this.
The problem is that he is practically invincible and wants to save everyone which he could do easily by reaching the hex core with his robots. But instead he chooses to let hundreds die for what? A distraction he doesn't need.
I've briefly had similar thoughts but this really does put it into perspective.
I just wish arcane fleshed out the story more.
Idk if Netflix forced them to condense everything to two seasons or if it was originally planned that way. But man i wish we got more.
The plan was always two seasons but the episodes were supposed to be longer. Episode 9 was originally twice the length it is now
If i would have a niccle for each time i see a arcane vs games of thrones comparison i would've got 2 niccles which isn't a lot but it's weird it happend twice
Play this at 0.8x speed to get a person who didn’t down twenty monsters before recording (/lh)
3:50 I actually love that you recognize that it was a worthwhile aversion from the political story to focus on rounding out the characters. I’ve always said that arcane has an amazing plot but it’s such a character driven show there isn’t anything that happens that isn’t a direct result of an act of love or greed from one of the characters
Biggest issues were the unnatural change of character, rushed pacing, and it felt like it needed another season to flesh things out. only masterpiece/great episode of season 2 is obviously episode 7
fire lord ozai....
Yeah, Sauron 100% ruined Lord of the rings trilogy where he was pure obvious evil, and 100% gapped Rings of power series. 😂😂😂
Bro, it's just bad writing and directing that's all.
P. S. it's just a tick for the name of the video
I personally don’t like the invasion in arcane, because i honestly believe this season should have been about an uprising, it should have been piltover and zaun against each other, but the show dropped the ball and just gave us some bs end of the world stuff
exactly
like the whole conflict with the chem barons,jinx becoming a revolutionary idol,meeting isha and how those two things conflict-all of that should've been what the season was about
hell we could've done way more with sevika,too
instead of the messy conflict that was set up throughout all of s1 we just cram in ambessa,the black rose and the machine herald out of literally nowhere
Lol.. that would have been painfully hyper-predictable slop wr have all seen ad nauseum. Nothing fresh or riveting about that.
@ when you show revolutionary imagery, and revolutionary movements in a story of class struggle, building up to a rebellion is the most obvious direction, that’s what they were building up
Also a villain taking people’s free will and characters throwing down their differences for the to fight an objectively evil bad guy is also hyper-predictable and have been seen ad nauseum, what is fresh isn’t the story beats but the actual execution, humans have ran out of “fresh” stories and we simply created “fresh” ways to tell those same old stories
@mitab1 The story they went with Viktor taking free will is far LESS "hyper-predictable" than the resistance story. There are incredibly much more resistance stories than free will conqueror stories.🤷
@@mitab1we watched a different show, because not once did I ever see Viktor as a villain. If anything, that was Ambessa.
Great video, good points. However, I've noticed you stumble over your words a little, which makes some sentences a bit difficult to understand. There's an easy fix though, just go over the audio and retake the less coherent parts. You can even have someone go over it for you. No need to slow down or change your style, just make the audio a little clearer.
Personally I was able to understand you just fine tho
But isn't the point of asoiaf that all of that personal shit and politics meaningless in the face of the end of the world. Aside from the how Bad the Show handled it
Exactly. The point is that the petty squabbles and power plays made by the nobles are inherently useless in the grand scheme of things and that they’d probably still be fighting each other while ignoring the actual threat that looms over them up north. In a way, showcasing how human conflict and greed blinds people to what actually matters in the end. Even if the show was written terribly, ASOIAF (the books, at least) have that understanding.
Honestly both were wasted, just for different reasons.
exactly
great video. great arguments. i put dislike becouse you talk too fast. English is not my first lenguage and it's hard for me to follow you ( i stopped at min 5). Hope you see this as a ''good critique'' becouse apart from that this is a great video
Ehh season 2 was so bad. It was got condensed to 2 seasons
no it didnt, unless you can cite a source other than the creators joking that it was going to be 5 seasons before they even got greenlighted
I think comparatively, season 2 is notably lacking in several aspects to season 1. Season 1 also had probably 3-4 years of writing before things were really set in stone once animation was locked in. AFAIK, they didn't even start season 2 until they saw the success of season 1, so it maybe had 2, and they were evidently limited to 2 seasons. I overall enjoyed it, but I can understand the issues people had, and I share some of them.
@@WickedHumor
W opinion
I saw somewhere that Arcane was written with 2 seasons in mind. Upon 2nd rewatch of the first season, I can truly see and appreciate the buildup for season 2. Most notably, how the Hex Core was evolved after Viktor poured his blood into it, forming the Arcane pattern that we see throughout S2. You could argue that they had to cut a lot of plot points in order to fit the whole S2 story in 9 episodes, but I am still very satisfied with the conclusion of Arcane.
@@shalom1523
I think it goes without saying that a LOT of people who saw season 1 did NOT rewatch the entire series when season 2 came out.
To see someone else with a relatively positive opinion of the conclusion is pleasing.